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MN-Sen: Counting Votes

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:25:59 AM EST
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The Uptake provides great coverage of what trying to enfranchise all voters look like. Things are looking good for Franken right now BTW.

Go Al!

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    MN-Sen: Counting Votes | 38 comments (38 topical)

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    I want this one (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ruffian on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:14:54 PM EST
    so badly.  I know I keep saying that, but it gets more true every day.

    All I want (none / 0) (#28)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:30:11 PM EST
    for Christmas is a 59th Senate seat!

    Parent
    My favorite part (none / 0) (#1)
    by CST on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:27:33 AM EST
    The person who said "this isn't Florida".

    That gave me a lot of hope.

    Minnesota =/= Florida (none / 0) (#2)
    by Fabian on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:29:17 AM EST
    True in oh, so many ways!

    Parent
    From here on out (none / 0) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:35:04 AM EST
    They should all be Coleman challenges that come before the board. That will make for a slow steady gain for Franken all day.

    If you are the type that can handle boredom in politics you can watch the live streaming of the vote counting HERE

    I couldn't find (none / 0) (#4)
    by lentinel on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:36:47 AM EST
    the information that would cause me to be optimistic about Franken.

    The site linked to still gives Coleman a lead of about 230 votes.
    How does Franken take the lead?

    They have (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by CST on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:37:52 AM EST
    counted Franken's contested ballots and not Coleman's yet.  Most of his contested ballots will be Franken votes.

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:39:05 AM EST
    I think he's gonna win this thing--so long as Norm's folks can't drag it past swearing-in day.

    I hope so (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:40:35 AM EST
    You can't believe how much I hope so.

    Parent
    riiight (none / 0) (#8)
    by AlkalineDave on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:48:35 AM EST
    Cause the Dinkytown precinct fiasco is totally enfranchising voters.

    Is this (none / 0) (#9)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 10:56:10 AM EST
    a sentence?  What do you mean?

    Parent
    Franken wants ballots that can't be found (none / 0) (#10)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:32:08 AM EST
    to be counted, mostly counted for him.  It's a bit hard to follow these days what Dems want -- count the votes in Florida, where the ballots were right there in front of everyone's faces.  Then, this year, don't count the votes in Florida and Michigan, until the convention, and then do count the votes -- when they didn't matter, because of the historic aborted roll call.  And now it's count the votes in Minnesota that can't even be found in The Land of 10,000 Lakes But 133 Missing Ballots. :-)

    Btw, the counterargument seems to be that the difference in total voters reported in Dinkytown's precinct vs. total ballots boxed was a case of human error.  It does happen, but whether it happened in Dinkytown, who knows now?

    But if ever you've been to Dinkytown, as I have many times recently, it delights in human error -- or eccentricity, anyway.  Numbers do seem to be flexible there, as we found.  Even printed menu prices were arguable.  

    Or maybe it's just the love of debate in Dinkytown.  Heck, there's not much else to do in winter in Minneapolis.  Don't count on this being over soon, if there's a chance that the debate can continue. . . .

    Parent

    Well, it seems pretty simple to me (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:57:55 AM EST
    133 ballots were packaged up and lost.  We KNOW they existed because there were 5 packages, labeled consecutively.  We know that we can't fine number 1.  So we default to the next best evidence, that count from the machine.

    Certainly not a fiasco and certainly the best way to make sure we have counted everything to the best of our ability.

    Now, if there was a package of ballots lost in some suburb, I doubt Normy would be complaining.  The difference is that I don't think that Al would either.  His position is consistent - count them all.

    Parent

    Not quite how it's reported (none / 0) (#17)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:11:09 PM EST
    in all Minnesota media.  They love to debate, too.

    Parent
    Your protestations are disingenuous (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by reslez on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:00:58 PM EST
    Out of 2 million votes cast statewide they couldn't find 133. Reasonable people -- like the bipartisan board who ruled unanimously to include these ballots based on the election-day receipts -- would interpret that as your normal everyday human error, not evidence of some kind of nefarious conspiracy. I also think it's somewhat distasteful that you're casting aspersions on Dinkytown. I hope that isn't just because it's a working class, racially-mixed part of Minneapolis.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#16)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:03:33 PM EST
    lets not use the Republican talking point that scary minority and minority areas = voter fraud.  I don't like it when Democrats use any Republican talking point against any and all Democrats.  Its frustrating.  

    Parent
    Huh? I fully believe it could be human error (none / 0) (#18)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:13:36 PM EST
    so your protestations are the disingenuous ones.  I'm just trying to sum up both sides from the lengthy debates in many Minnesota media . . . which I read, although I'm in a neighboring state, because Minnesota media are far better than most here -- and because I love the Twin Cities.

    And that includes Dinkytown -- which I love in part because I live in its comparate in my city.  What's with the paranoia?  You don't see that in Dinkytown.  So you must not really know it.

    Parent

    sigmund, is that you? (none / 0) (#29)
    by cpinva on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 02:52:07 PM EST
    It's a bit hard to follow these days what Dems want

    simple enough really, they want all votes in an election counted. you're conflating an election (florida) with a party primary (florida & michigan), the two are not mutually inclusive.

    Parent

    oops! (none / 0) (#30)
    by cpinva on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 02:53:11 PM EST
    sorry, that should have been minnesota, not florida.

    geez, i wish this thing had an edit function!


    Parent

    Conflating? Your logic is confounding me (none / 0) (#33)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 05:35:09 PM EST
    but I'll be sure to remember it's not worth going to vote in my next state's primary, because my ballot doesn't matter as much.  The ACORN cases are coming up in my city's courts soon, and maybe this would be just the argument for it to try -- but yer honor, primary votes don't matter, so neither do problems with voter registration for primaries!

    Parent
    Except when it is a caucus state! (none / 0) (#36)
    by hairspray on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:21:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Florida and Michigan (none / 0) (#37)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 06:24:51 PM EST
    should have been counted to affect the result or had re-votes.

    That whole party primary/election parsing doesn't work for me.  People always want their vote to count.  Although I am happy Obama won the Presidency, I'm still upset by the primary process.  It should be reformed.    

    Parent

    Waiting for the MN Supreme Court decision (none / 0) (#11)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:50:13 AM EST
    on the improperly rejected ballots.  That + challenged ballots should put Franken over the top.  

    The challenged ballots (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:50:43 AM EST
    might be enough to put Franken over the top too.  

    Parent
    Hopefully it will be (5.00 / 6) (#14)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 11:59:05 AM EST
    and if it is, watch Norm change his tune on the absentees.

    Parent
    MN SC decided (none / 0) (#35)
    by WS on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 05:50:27 PM EST
    to count ballots if both sides agree that they were improperly rejected.  Odd decision.  

    Parent
    good for him, Al Franken, ..... (none / 0) (#19)
    by jedimom on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:24:59 PM EST
    I see 'me Al Franken' is pulling ahead!!

    can we have an open thread :0)

    Hilda Solis D-CA has been named for Labor Secty!!

    http://moderateinthemiddle.wordpress.com/

    The Strib went through every (none / 0) (#20)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:40:22 PM EST
    challenged ballot and came up with the likely outcome:  Franken by 225.

    LINK

    I'd bet on the Strib (none / 0) (#21)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    but the St. Paul Pio Press always has to do its own thing -- its take is below -- as do the rural counties, as it notes.  Btw, its site allows us to join in seeing what the Supreme Court there is seeing, with photos of problem ballots.  (Also don't miss its front-page photo of the justice with his head in his hands. . . .)  Looks like we watch for an update on Dinkytown from its county later today.  But the other counties?  Their officials are out ice-fishing.  (That's the standard winter alternative to "no comment" here.:-)

    A Pioneer Press tally puts the number of possible mistakenly rejected ballots at 836 -- more than enough to swing the election -- based on information from 39 of Minnesota's 87 counties. But counties with significant numbers of absentee voters have refused to take official action, including Chisago, Washington and Ramsey counties.

    Darwin Lookingbill of the Ramsey County Attorney's office said the Ramsey County canvassing board would meet this morning at 11 a.m. to discuss the matter. He reiterated that the county is willing to tell the campaigns how many errors the county made but has no plans to open the ballots -- even if Coleman loses the Supreme Court case.

    A Franken campaign spokesman said he expects counties to voluntarily comply with the board's request if the Supreme Court rules against Coleman. Lookingbill said that would require a court order.

    Minnesota Attorney General Lori Swanson told the Supreme Court on Wednesday she doesn't believe the canvassing board can force counties to open absentee ballots, even if they believe they were mistakenly rejected.

    The canvassing board in Hennepin County, Minnesota's largest, meets at 4 p.m. today to weigh the same issue

    .

    Parent
    Well, that is a different (none / 0) (#22)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:53:53 PM EST
    issue, the absentee ballots.  With any luck, the recount will put Al ahead, and the issue will be moot.  Of course, at that point, Normy might want to try to count the wrongfully rejected absentees, but he is pretty much on record opposing that.

    With regard to the counties not complying, I am certain that if the SC were to rule in Al's favor, there WOULD be a court order telling counties to comply.  What good would a ruling be without an order to back it up?  So this discussion about them refusing to comply is silly.

    Parent

    It would seem so but the state AG (none / 0) (#25)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:16:20 PM EST
    disagrees with you, per the story.  That's what gave me pause -- as to how long this debacle could remain on pause, if the upstate counties turn into upstarts on this (as some tend to like to do, doing anything that isn't what the big city does).

    Parent
    Btw, those aren't challenged ballots? (none / 0) (#26)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:17:06 PM EST
    Your comment referred to challenged ballots, and I gather that the absentees also are challenged?

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#38)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 07:45:35 PM EST
    the issue involving the absentee ballots is limited to those ballots that were wrongfully excluded and not counted at all.  They are not part of the ballot pool in any way, right now.  It seems that some elections officials did not count some absentee ballots because they were mistaken about whether the ballot complied with the requirements.  For example, in some cases, the elections official was mistaken about the signature requirements.  These were lawful ballots that were wrongfully excluded.

    UPDATE, I just heard that the SC has ruled that the wrongly excluded absentees shall be separated and reported to the canvassing board.  How they count them, we shall see.  They will probably just treat them like the rest of the ballots and put them through the recount and challenge process.  There are maybe 1600 ballots, but as things go, it looks like Al will be in the lead so he probably regrets bringing up the issue.

    Parent

    Oh, and (none / 0) (#23)
    by eric on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 12:54:46 PM EST
    I think Dinkytown is settled.  The voting machine was counted, end of story.

    Parent
    Per this diary over (none / 0) (#27)
    by scribe on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 01:21:59 PM EST
    at Orange Satan's place, Franken had a very good morning.

    Franken (none / 0) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 04:40:03 PM EST
    should take the lead for the first time within the next twenty minutes and then start pulling away.

    I Lied (none / 0) (#32)
    by CoralGables on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 05:02:01 PM EST
    they took a break with Coleman up by 5 votes.

    Parent
    Watched a few minutes (none / 0) (#34)
    by Cream City on Thu Dec 18, 2008 at 05:36:36 PM EST
    of the live video feed of the ballot-counting today, and I'd need a break EVERY five minutes.

    I hope some of the video is stored on the Strib site for nights when I have insomnia.  Instant cure.

    Parent

    MN-Sen: Counting Votes | 38 comments (38 topical)

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