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Can Minimalism Be Transformative?

One of the major concerns I had about now President-Elect Barack Obama (when he was candidate Obama) was his then apparent adherence to a theory of transformative change that would be post partisan. I think post-Democratic Convention Obama utterly abandoned that approach and as President-Elect, his rhetoric has been bold and progressive. No doubt some of this is attributable to the incredible challenges the country faces. But perhaps this has been his plan all along - the Mark Schmitt Theory of Change. At any rate, President-Elect Obama is a far cry from the Post Partisan Unity Schtick candidate we saw before.

In that sense, he appears to have rejected the Third Way vision of his University of Chicago Law School colleague Cass Sunstein (who I have criticized quite a lot). Rick Pildes writes a very good article on Sunstein's views on public policy and the law. Here is a telling excerpt:

. . . Sunstein considers his post-partisan conception an attempted synthesis of Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s New Deal liberalism and Ronald Reagan’s new conservatism (a particularly daunting task in light of Reagan’s statement of philosophy in his first inaugural address, which “outlined the coming of a new order that would break completely with the New Deal and the ‘modern Republicanism’ that accepted the New Deal’s premises”).10 Consistent with the New Deal, Sunstein strongly defends the need for government intervention in market ordering and proclaims “senseless” general opposition to government intervention per se.11 Consistent with the Reagan vision, Sunstein also defends the importance of freedom of choice, with the strong preference such choice entails for market ordering. Sunstein’s synthesis is to defend justifiable government intervention, but to require that intervention to be structured in ways that promote freedom of choice.12

The second way of seeing Sunstein’s conception is almost diametrically the opposite of the way Sunstein envisions it. Perhaps this conception actually reveals how chastened and minimalist political aspirations are limited to being in our era. Rather than a bold, new Third Way for a transformed politics, Sunstein’s search for consensus might show that political ambition and aspiration at this moment can only be confined to the lowest common denominator of broad political acceptance. Perhaps this is a matter of political realism: anything more than a modest politics of incrementalism is simply not likely to be enacted. Or perhaps this constrained vision reflects a dispirited post-New Deal liberalism that, after seeing the failures of many liberal programs, finds it difficult to imagine bold new political programs. But when we move from rhetoric to detail, as I will show in a moment, it becomes clear that Sunstein’s approach entails tinkering with the details of various programs, rather than the bold new departures of either the New Deal or the Reagan vision. To be sure, I do not mean to belittle this tinkering; the health, welfare, and safety of many Americans might well be improved by the changes Sunstein urges. But it is nonetheless important to put this political program in perspective, and to use it to raise questions about the political era in which we live and the kind of politics to which we can and should aspire.

Pildes labels his piece a "tribute" to Sunstein. He seems to be playing the anti-Mark Antony here, professing to come to praise Sunstein, but ending up burying him. Consider this passage:

Sunstein’s vision of modern government, it becomes clear that this is a vision focused on changing the means by which government acts. This focus, however, then raises the question: how much can or should politics focus primarily on the means of government action, rather than what ends government ought to pursue? Or, to the put the question in terms of Sunstein’s own stated ambitions, can it really be the case that the major political critique of the New Deal that was effectively launched in the Reagan years was simply a critique about the means of public policy, as opposed to the proper role of the state and the ends for which government ought to act? Should we see Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, as so divisively polarized today merely because they disagree about what means government ought to use in pursuing policy objectives – objectives that, we are presumably to believe, all sides actually share? Or is it more realistic to acknowledge that these divisions are far more about values, priorities among values, and competing views about how best to interpret and understand those values in various settings of political decisionmaking?

These seem a series of rhetorical questions. Of course politicians must speak of common purpose and working together. But in the end, Republicans and Democrats do not agree on issues of substance. They simply do not. FDR said:

True leadership calls for the setting forth of the objectives and the rallying of public opinion in support of these objectives.

And THEN he said:

The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach.

The objectives come first. The methods are to be determined. In this vein, Pildes writes:

In the wake of the Depression, Congress created many of the institutions and regulatory regimes that have since given stability and credibility to U.S. financial markets. Some of this regulatory structure focused on better disclosure of information, but much of it involved the kind of command-and-control regulation and mandatory requirements that Sunstein’s Third Way aims to avoid. Virtually all high-level policy proposals being considered in the wake of the current crisis recognize that government is going to have to extend this structure to reach financial institutions not covered by the New Deal laws and is going to have to mandate – yes, mandate – restrictions on various kinds of risk-taking practices of financial institutions.

What Pildes does not mention is that FDR's pronounced objectives were indeed anathema to Republicans and conservatives. It was not just the methods that were challenged. It was the objectives themselves. When FDR said:

No, our basic trouble was not an insufficiency of capital. It was an insufficient distribution of buying power coupled with an over-sufficient speculation in production. While wages rose in many of our industries, they did not as a whole rise proportionately to the reward to capital, and at the same time the purchasing power of other great groups of our population was permitted to shrink. We accumulated such a superabundance of capital that our great bankers were vying with each other, some of them employing questionable methods, in their efforts to lend this capital at home and abroad.

I believe that we are at the threshold of a fundamental change in our popular economic thought, that in the future we are going to think less about the producer and more about the consumer. Do what we may have to do to inject life into our ailing economic order, we cannot make it endure for long unless we can bring about a wiser, more equitable distribution of the national income.

he was stating objectives diametrically opposed to those of his political opponents. The methods he employed to achieve those objectives were varied, both in manner and efficacy. But they sprung from the objectives. FDR set his objectives and then engaged in "bold, persistent experimentation" to achieve those objectives. FDR brought forth perhaps the ultimate example of political leadership in our country. He practiced what he preached:

True leadership calls for the setting forth of the objectives and the rallying of public opinion in support of these objectives.

So far, in my view, President-Elect Obama has embraced the FDR model of political leadership. The Sunstein view of political leadership appears to have become anachronistic in just a matter of months. A short shelf life indeed.

Speaking for me only

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    I am happy the post partisan (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:10:38 PM EST
    Unity Pony is out to pasture for now. I'm sure he's happy too . . .  ;)

    I thought Obama sounded better at the end of the campaign, but he's been all over the place (can't forget that far right religious swing!) that I'm still in wait and see mode.

    I am sure Sunstein (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by lilburro on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:14:54 PM EST
    is way way smarter than your average politican so he must have some reason for his views.  But his views do indeed seem to be quite ephemeral.  Why rush to incorporate Reagan already (and how do you do it without seeming like a Republican, IOW NOT a Supreme Court nominee under Obama)?  Sunstein's theories seem like a capitulation to the whole crappy conservative culture we've all gotten used to recently.

    Speaking of that culture...if Obama said something like this

    The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach.

    I would think he would be shouted down as a Marxist.  More than he already is.  How was FDR able to do what he did?

    Because one upon a time (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:17:20 PM EST
    there were real marxists in America who could give him cover from the left. That's one good argument to have strong unions.

    Parent
    I see (none / 0) (#53)
    by lilburro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:47:31 AM EST
    Got any reading recommendations?

    I was thinking the other day that Obama is going to need to know somebody's got his back.

    Parent

    henry ford, for all his faults, (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:55:37 AM EST
    was almost alone in being at the forefront of recognizing that potential consumers must be able to actually afford the product you're making and trying to sell. he paid his employees enough so that even the lowliest line worker could afford to buy a model-t.

    he was vilified by his peers for this.

    Discovering that Obama himself at one time (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 08:32:50 AM EST
    thought that America needed to move beyond New Deal dynamics was one of my few causes for concern.  He seems to have shifted on this and I'm fine with that.  Nothing scares me more than a President who can't process new information these days :)  We are all influenced by our friends and we all gain certain perspectives on situations due to our exposure.  Do you think that Obama's previous questioning and almost dislike for New Deal thought was due to his exposure to Cass Sunstein?

    I have been on (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:06:33 PM EST
    an FDR kick today.

    I like this post the best though.

    I like this the best too (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Maryb2004 on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:53:34 PM EST
    It synthesizes all of the ideas the best.

    I hope everyone realizes that experimentation by its very nature requires failures.  I think that's why it's important to try multiple things at a time.  Otherwise the naysayers will use the failures to destroy him.

    Parent

    FDR got out in front of that (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:56:51 PM EST
    Obama might give it a whirl.

    Parent
    Yes failures will come. But didn't (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by hairspray on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 11:52:52 PM EST
    the media and the GOP howl for years (and even the progressives) about the failure of health care reform by Clinton. Oh howl away they did forever and a day. And yet, health care finally got on the table to see another day.  The problem in western thinking is its dichotomous nature.

    Parent
    Biden (none / 0) (#61)
    by jedimom on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:38:32 AM EST
    Biden referenced that Tuesday in his Brandeis comment about the states as experimentation incubators :0) and the need for some attempts to fail to find success...

    Der Spiegel had an excellent piece a year or so ago on the absolute IMPERATIVE for the USA to have divided parties and how that push they make against each other is why our governmental system works and functions and that without it, in a continual consensus our govt would fail,. Wish I could find it, it was really excellent.

    Parent

    Because you get to kick Reagan and (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:13:22 PM EST
    Sunstein at the same time? Heck, toss in the special election results today in the south, and you can have a trifecta of badness.

    Parent
    I ignored that contest (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:15:22 PM EST
    because once it was clear Obama would not weigh in, Martin had no chance.

    The "black" candidate (the Dem) with tepid black turnout? In the South? Not even worth covering.

    Franken is getting interesting though.

    that one will end up in court for sure.


    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:19:13 PM EST
    My prediction: if Coleman is even one vote ahead, he'll keep his seat. The parties practice MAD on this issue in the Senate. (Remember Landrieu/Jenkins?)

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:21:19 PM EST
    And frankly, I would prefer it that way.

    Let's NOT let the Senate decide.

    Parent

    Well, the Senate always decides (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:27:11 PM EST
    but it will almost certainly not ignore the certificate of election sent by the Governor.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:36:25 PM EST
    same difference.

    Parent
    Franken by 35 (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:30:19 PM EST
    You heard it here first....

    But then again, there are a lot of absentee ballots that could be put back in the hopper....

    I'll revise my prediction: Franken by 52.  What a perfect way for Franken to get a Senate seat....SNL couldn't do it better....

    Parent

    Fingers crossed (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:31:39 PM EST
    Just like the Begich race (none / 0) (#14)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:37:35 PM EST
    Slowly but surely closing the gap, to take the lead only at the very end....

    Parent
    I'd like to see some research and good (none / 0) (#49)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:06:47 AM EST
    analysis on the problem of the conservative tendencies in the AA community. It's maddening to see a potentially huge voting block repeatedly support right wing politicians and policies that are against their own interests.

     

    Parent

    hmmmm, what if (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by nycstray on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:59:32 AM EST
    the problem of the conservative tendencies

    is inaccurate and they are actually conservative? Many people (all backgrounds) vote against their interests when you really look at it. And when you weigh in the religion factor?

    Parent

    Er, like whom? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 01:09:52 AM EST
    The AA community is largely culturally conservative and does tend to vote for things like banning gay marriage, but what right-wing politicians are you referring to?


    Parent
    I would prefer it.... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Salo on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:27:44 AM EST
    ....if black voting patterns were similar to the general population for two reasons and that white voting patterns were more evenly balanced:

    1. If black voters split nearer to 50-50 it would mean that they are doing better economically and their wealthier cohorts would be voting mor ein line with their various interests.

    2. with a closer split similar to 50-50 White voters would be less polarized on cultural issues like abortion, race  and religion and more focused on economic issues.


    Parent
    It is up to them to decide (none / 0) (#62)
    by ruffian on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:15:28 AM EST
    what is in their own intersts. Whether their social concerns trump their economic concerns is up to them to decide.

    Parent
    Me too. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Faust on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:39:46 AM EST
    Fun fact about FDR: (none / 0) (#4)
    by jtaylorr on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:17:37 PM EST
    When he found out that 25% of the students at Harvard were Jewish, he personally asked the dean to quietly impose a quota on the number of Jews accepted to the school, to which the dean obliged. That dean later became the head of chemical weapons development for the government.

    Do you have a cite for that (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:21:52 PM EST
    fun fact?

    Parent
    I think the reference is to this (none / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:25:28 PM EST
    "[A]s a member of Harvard's Board of Overseers in the early 1920's, F.D.R. accepted a Jewish quota."

    Parent
    Nicholson Baker's Novel Human Smoke (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:00:49 PM EST
    seems to be the source. However, what Nicholson Baker's source was I do not know. Baker also accuses Churchill of being anti-semitic.

    Baker hopes to elucidate a pacifistic interpretation of events, one that argues that both sides were supporters of inhumane policies and authors of terror and destruction.

    To do this, Baker employs a moral relativism that is as astonishing as it is infuriating. Perhaps if one aims to produce a truer, sadder, stranger history of one of the most chronicled episodes in human history, it is natural and even necessary to demythologize the heroes of the conventional narratives. Baker attempts this with artful acts of character assassination. For example, in one of the first thirty of his thumbnail sketches, Baker offers us Eleanor Roosevelt in 1918 snidely reporting on a party for Bernard Baruch as having been attended by "mostly ,Jews," and one about Franklin Roosevelt supporting a quota on Jewish admission to Harvard in 1922.

    Without knowing Baker's source, I am inclined to dismiss this tale  as not indicative of FDR's public persona given his appointments of  Jews in his administration.


    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:03:24 PM EST
    Well . . .

    Parent
    I have the book right here. (none / 0) (#33)
    by jtaylorr on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:17:36 PM EST
    And Baker gives his source.
    "Franklin D. Roosevelt" by Frank Freidel, pg. 296.


    Parent
    There's a problem then (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:18:33 PM EST
    Friedel never said that.

    Parent
    Haha (none / 0) (#37)
    by jtaylorr on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:21:19 PM EST
    So you're claiming Baker made up his citations?

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:22:34 PM EST
    Friedel was a known FDR sycophsnt.

    He spent his entire life as an apologist for FDR.

    Parent

    apologizing for what? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:02:20 PM EST
    having a legacy that gives George Will heartburn?

    Parent
    Does it matter if FDR was anti-semetic, (none / 0) (#42)
    by Radix on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:32:51 PM EST
    in the context of his contribution to the country?

    Parent
    According to the NY Times (none / 0) (#44)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:59:53 PM EST
    FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
    A Rendezvous With Destiny.
    By Frank Freidel

    Mr. Freidel's book will please those who want to affirm their high regard for the 32d President. It is a biography that a close if scholarly aide could have written - anecdotal and precise, loving and empirically reliable, all at the same time. Mr. Freidel's only criticisms of his subject are slight, glancing blows, such as his comment that in the 1930's black journalists were barred from Presidential press conferences, and his remark that, as a member of Harvard's Board of Overseers in the early 1920's, F.D.R. accepted a Jewish quota. Mr. Freidel has spent most of a long academic life writing this way about Roosevelt, and it would be both unfair and pointless to expect him to change his opinions or his method now
    .

    Acceptance of a quota  does not equal personally asking the dean to quietly impose a quota. I will concede I don't have the book in question and only have the Times Review.

    Parent

    did (none / 0) (#55)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:51:17 AM EST
    mr. freidel provide a source for his assertion?

    his remark makes it sound as though president roosevelt accepted this without question. i find this a bit difficult to accept, absent some third-party, confirmable evidence to support it.

    Parent

    Which is, of course (none / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:37:10 PM EST
    not what the original comment said.

    Parent
    And we loved him anyway (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:38:46 PM EST
    Who says Jews aren't a forgiving people? heh.

    Parent
    A lot of his friends were Jewish . . . (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:39:34 PM EST
    I think Lord Haw Haw used to call him (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:41:55 PM EST
    Franklin Delano Rosenfeld.

    Parent
    Nixon too. (none / 0) (#25)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:01:38 PM EST
    Nixon had his Kissinger.
    But he spewed anti-semitism when the lights were off, but the tape was rolling.

    Parent
    Hold up (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:09:05 PM EST
    Are you really equating FDR's relationship with Jews to Nixon's?

    No, you are not. You can't be.

    Parent

    I don't know. (none / 0) (#35)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:19:47 PM EST
    I just am not particularly impressed with the "some of my best friends are...." thing.

    Please see my post above about Roosevelt and the "Saint Louis" to know what is behind my skepticism with regard to him.

    Parent

    That was a bad joke (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:25:02 PM EST
    on my part.

    The truth is FDR was a traitor to his class but he was of his class.

    I imasgine he probably was anti-Semitic and racist.

    I imagine a lot of folks are that today.

    Also anti-Latino et al.

    But I am pretty sure he did not turn away refugees from the Nazis for anti-Semitic reasons.

    they were political.

    That does not make it any better of course but it is different.

    Parent

    His motivation (none / 0) (#43)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:35:58 PM EST
    would not have mattered much to the victims.

    The fact that he could do such a thing for political reasons - well it stretches the brain to the point of exploding.

    Parent

    Goebbels called Roosevelt... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Salo on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:29:45 AM EST
    ..."the Jew Rosefeld".  No joke.  In a malignant time FDR was a benignant force.

    Parent
    Roosevelt will always (none / 0) (#29)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    have a down side for me.
    His turning away the boat of Jewish refugees, effectively sending them to their deaths leaves a bitter residue.

    There is a book, "While Six Million Died", by Arthur Morse, that chronicles this disaster - among many others.

    Here is a devastating quote from an article by Annie Zirin (link below):

    "The voyage of a ship called the St. Louis became one of the most notorious symbols of Roosevelt's criminal indifference. On May 13, 1939, the St. Louis arrived in Havana with 936 passengers fleeing Nazi oppression. The U.S.-backed Cuban government decided not to admit them and handed the matter over to the U.S. State Department. The refugees docked for weeks just a few miles from the ports of Miami, waiting to hear FDR's ruling on their fate. FDR denied them entry and sent them back to Europe, where most of the people ended up in concentration camps. "

    While Six Million Died

    Parent

    No one is forgetting the St. Louis (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:13:49 PM EST
    but Roosevelt is not on trial.

    Parent
    Trial? (none / 0) (#41)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:25:11 PM EST
    I'm not putting him on trial.
    We're just talking.

    But it would make for an interesting trial - now that you mention it.

    Parent

    Roosevelt's efforts to... (none / 0) (#60)
    by Salo on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 09:34:51 AM EST
    ...covertly assist Britain's resistance to the Nazis in 1940-41 and then mobilize the US to defeat Nazi tyranny more than make up for those sorts of incidents. Telling refugees to bugger-off is not uncommon for governments throughout history.  In the mid 1930s the extent of Hitler's extermination planning wasn't impressed into the imagination of politicians as it is today.

    Parent
    Telling immigrants to "bugger off"? (none / 0) (#63)
    by lentinel on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 10:21:56 AM EST
    Knowingly sending refugees to their deaths is what it was.
    Your description is bone-chilling.

    Nothing "makes up" for this incident.
    People were murdered.
    Families destroyed.
    Nothing makes up for this.

    Your assertion that people, including Roosevelt, didn't know about Hitler's plans to imprison and kill Jews at the time of this stomach wrenching occurrence does not bear serious investigation.

    Read "While Six Million Died" by Arthur Morse.

    Parent

    That is true. (none / 0) (#20)
    by jtaylorr on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:56:32 PM EST
    And later, while he was president, he got the dean to impose further quotas.
    He also refused the publicly support a bill to allow Jewish orphan refugees to enter the country.

    Read Human Smoke by Nicholson Baker.

    Parent

    Please (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:01:20 PM EST
    a cite. You provide none on the quotas.

    it is of curse a matter of record that FDR did nothing for refugees from the Nazis.

    He also interred Japanese-Americans and did many other unsavory things.

    He was not a paragon in all things.

    That is not my point here.


    Parent

    Here ya go (none / 0) (#36)
    by jtaylorr on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:20:40 PM EST
    "Franklin D. Roosevelt" by Frank Freidel, pg. 296.

    Parent
    Noted above (none / 0) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:22:59 PM EST
    A bad cite.


    Parent
    Now, it's Asians (none / 0) (#46)
    by BrassTacks on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:26:11 PM EST
    Who face the quotas at top schools.  Oh well.  What goes around, comes around.

    Parent
    Just wondering (none / 0) (#19)
    by lentinel on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:56:01 PM EST
    Since Obama became President-Elect, have you found any of Obama's rhetoric with respect to foreign policy to be bold and progressive?

    I keep waiting for that, (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by BrassTacks on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:27:36 PM EST
    I have yet to see anything that is progressive, much less BOLD.  Nor have I seen any real progressives appointed to the Cabinet, other than Hillary.  

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 08:59:16 PM EST
    Nor do I want it to be personally.

    Remember, I liked Bush 41's foreign policy.

    Parent

    Not entirely rejected (none / 0) (#50)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:57:38 AM EST
    In that sense, he appears to have rejected the Third Way vision of his University of Chicago Law School colleague Cass Sunstein

    There's a libertarian streak to Obama's form of liberalism/progressivism that's captured by what Sunstein is saying. Obama's is not the liberalism of the New Deal or the Great Society. Love it or hate it, Reagan changed the bounds of what's considered acceptable in the way of government programs - their scope, their funding, their goals, the validity of their very existence - and Obama is a product of that post-Reagan thinking, particularly in the idea that the market provides certain efficiencies and incentives that just can't be duplicated by government. The market has shortcomings, but so does government, and the best way to meet goals has to strike a balance between them. I don't necessarily agree with that, but it seems to have entwined itself so tightly into mainstream thinking that you have to deal with it. You can't just approach things the way FDR or LBJ did without running into that bedrock belief most of the way across the political spectrum, including a good part of the Dem constituency.

    The "freedom of choice" aspect mentioned seems to me to be the most distinguishing break from older-style liberalism. Obama's plan for healthcare is a good example. Universal coverage with proper subsidies but without a mandate takes into account the ideological reasons for opposition but still gets to the goal, which is coverage for everyone. So that kind of minimalism doesn't have to mean incrementalism. It can just as easily mean shaking up the old pieties in order to get to new solutions. It won't work for everything, but for some things it can.

    I don't know if what this author says about Sunstein's "search for consensus" is true or not. I do think that in Obama's case his supposed search for bipartisanship and consensus have been misconstrued. It's not about "chastened and minimalist political aspirations." He says quite unambiguously that he wants to hear particularly from those who don't agree with him. This not because he wants to get to the lowest common denominator but because he thinks that even the most wrong-headed opposition contains some essential grain of truth that can make for better solutions by being factored in instead of being ignored. It's more like a performance management approach - technocratic not political. He's only just beginning to admit to the sneaky part that he always left out during the campaign - that the goals/vision are what really matter and that those are not up for negotiation.

    Healthcare imo (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by lilburro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 05:58:56 AM EST
    is an example of how perfectly artificial and stupid limitations are set up to protect "freedom of choice."  The Obama health plan excluded a mandate for everyone in order to pander to the right wing.  That is all.  Their literature makes that pandering clear.  And it was often cited that Obama's plan would be an improvement, but mandates were necessary.

    And now Baucus comes out and says they are necessary.  It's the only way healthcare works.  That is what he wants to push through the Senate.  

    Much to do about nothing with the mandates.  The political project should be to explain how we achieve universal healthcare - truly universal, wihtout a disclaimer.  There are plenty of people who will take that up for Obama.  That's already clear.  If he wants to make Daschle push through his healthcare plan of the campaign, that IMO would be a huge mistake.

    Parent

    It was always clear (none / 0) (#67)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:13:41 PM EST
    that "no mandates" was nothing more than a political tactic for getting through the door. A mandate is necessary at some point for the system to work, but saying "no mandate" is necessary for getting into a position to make it happen.

    We wouldn't be in the position to deal with the issue at all, i.e., "to explain how we achieve universal healthcare," if the terms of the debate had been allowed to be stuck at Omigod! The gummint is going to force you to give up your insurance! Socialized medicine!, which it could very well have been right now if that opening had been given to the Republicans during the campaign and been allowed to take hold. Instead the window has been shifted.

    Parent

    Hmm (none / 0) (#68)
    by lilburro on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 02:50:28 PM EST
    I think we're in the position to talk about mandated UHC not so much because of a trojan horse of "No mandates" as the many high profile stories of our system's failures and a hard-driving YEARS long campaign on the part of Democrats re: Prez elections.  

    I think Obama could've won the GE even if he said UHC will be mandated.  I don't think maligning mandates was necessary...BUT on the other hand I think the way the situation is now, Obama will have a big left flank pushing for mandates, and he seems open to that.

    It helps we're remembering FDR so fondly these days too I reckon.

    Parent

    I saw no maligning of mandates (none / 0) (#69)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    Just a refusal to let the issue be sidetracked over them.

    And would that "big left flank pushing for mandates" be in its current fighting shape if it hadn't geared up through the campaign? The real fight is yet to come after all. As I see it, effective community building is done not through agreement and good feeling and rationality and all that nice stuff but through deliberate provocation of opposition and poking at shared grievance. But then I'm a cynic.

    Parent

    And all those (none / 0) (#70)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 03:48:30 PM EST
    high profile stories of healthcare system failures would have accomplished is acceptance that universal access to healthcare was needed, not that a mandated program was needed. And indeed, that was what Obama's plan promised - universal access.

    I think that with the economic meltdown now that they might be able to push the envelope to try for a mandated program, because that's what will be needed for it to be financially sustainable. The bailouts can now be pointed to to shut up ideological opponents who complain about the cost. But otherwise I think they would have had to take it in two steps, universal-access healthcare first, then mandate in order to protect the viability of a popular program. But I think they might be able to go right to actual full-scale UHC now, though it wouldn't have been as politically possible without the meltdown and the bailouts.

    Parent

    FDR's words are the key (none / 0) (#65)
    by joanneleon on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:05:48 PM EST
    and this is what we do not have today from our Congress and, I would say, from our politicians and leaders, in general, on the Democratic side.  

    The country needs and, unless I mistake its temper, the country demands bold, persistent experimentation. It is common sense to take a method and try it: If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something. The millions who are in want will not stand by silently forever while the things to satisfy their needs are within easy reach.
    [emphasis added]

    I don't think I'm alone in saying that I have been yearning for this kind of leadership from the Democrats for years.  There were times when I felt like it was in reach, when their words implied or even promised such intentions, but we were let down time after time, and not just because of Republicans' obstruction, their strategy in Congress or "not having the votes".

    Unfortunately, we did see this type of attitude and action from the Bush administration and the Republican Congress during the last eight years, with the exception of admitting failures.  But they were always willing to take bold action.  Disastrous action in our view, yes.  But it was clear to their constituents that they were doing something, and for the most part when they said they'd do something, they'd follow through and try it.  Perhaps this is why, despite the fact that many of them are out of a job now and are loathed, the Republican party still received so many votes in the general election.

    I hope we see more of this type of attitude and action from Obama's administration.  Even though I criticize some of his choices, I want Obama to succeed and I am willing to give him and his administration the benefit of the doubt, and my support.  I'm willfully suppressing my pessimistic side as best I can and am encouraging as much optimism and creative thinking as I can.  I have full confidence that they have the ability.  Do they have the will?

    The following is the rationalization I am using, to the best of my ability:
    The times we're living in are both critical and dangerous, and full of opportunity.  This is a time when chances can be taken and great things can be done.  It's a rare time that doesn't come along very often.  Obama and his administration may not be people who have a history of taking political risks, but these are extraordinary times, and they are politically perceptive, and I hope they will realize that this is their chance to follow FDR's words.  I hope they also realize that the current conditions are as tenuous as they are rare.  Mistakes will be brooked, as long as the actions were rooted in honesty and competence.  But inaction, deception, and half-measures won't be tolerated, IMHO.  Sunstein's most probable approach (based on his writings and things he has said about accountability for the Bush admin, et al), while it might be wise advice for another time and another situation, it is the wrong approach for these times and this situation.

    (This FDR quote really hit me.  There's so much to be said about this and it really struck a chord with me as a subject for further thought and writing.)

    We've got the Post-Partisan Unity Schtick.... (none / 0) (#66)
    by joel dan walls on Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 12:24:12 PM EST
    ...and then we've got the people who couldn't then, and can't now, quit blathering about the Post-Partisan Unity Schtick. (And my favorite: the folks who are condemning the yet-to-exist Obama Administration as a failure.) And then there are the people like yours truly who supported Barack Obama last spring because we actually thought he was preferable to Hillary Clinton.