home

Symbolism

Via Drum, the NYTimes explains how the Obama Inauguaration team chose the printer for the invitations:

According to Mr. Donnelly, Precise Continental was selected over rival printers because it is a union company, it uses recycled paper and it is certified by the Forest Stewardship Council, which promotes responsible forest management.

Is Obama not President for all - including non-union, non-recycling, non-Forest Stewardship Council certified printers? How very uninclusive of Obama! How very stigmatizing! My point, for those who missed it, is that the Presidency is a bully pulpit on every issue and every decision made carries important symbolism. The power of the Presidency extends beyond those tangible powers granted by the Constitution. Moral suasion? Or "coercion and pressure?"

Update - Irony is lost on some.

(Speaking for me only)

< Deconstructing An Argument | Cheney Implicates Congressional Leadership On Civil Liberties Abuses >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I was about to reply to the "what does (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:01:25 PM EST
    it say" comment by saying:  can't wait for the answers to this question!  

    yup, I know that as a woman (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:10:20 PM EST
    I am supposed to shut up about sexism, but I'm just not that nice a girl.

    Parent
    Thank god (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:24:08 PM EST
    I am supposed to shut up about sexism, but I'm just not that nice a girl.

    It's not like there isn't a huge posse constantly pretending nothing's wrong.

    Parent

    ps... (2.00 / 1) (#16)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:13:33 PM EST
    I wonder how his record will compare to Bush's?  I know McCain promised half the cabinet would be women and Clinton had a pretty good record.  I would hate to think even dubya has Obama beat in appointing women (and gay people I would guess) than Obama has so far.

    Parent
    I'm thinking Obama and his (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    transition team count Hillary Clinton as being worth 2 women appointments.  (Monster, actually.)

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:29:11 PM EST
    good one, have a cookie!

    Parent
    I don't get it.... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:02:28 PM EST
    The left and the progressives are getting on my nerves.  Obama said he would do this.  They are acting like someone who gets into a relationship with a polygamist then gets really peeved when the new wife is brought home.  Obama is not going against his core values.  There is one America, he is against gay marriage, would not take pick with Newsom.  What is all the "upset" about?  

    This is what the other side of the aisle looks like when you reach for it.  Did the progressives imagine they, the  other side, would melt into submission?  

    Oyeee.  

    how much simpler could this be.... (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by TimNCGuy on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:59:57 PM EST
    and yet so many just don't seem to get it.

    Obama claims he invited Warren beccause he is good on many issues such as AIDS and Climate change even if he disagrees with him on gay rights (except for marriage where they agree).

    People don't understand why this infuriates gays.

    Do you think Obama would have offered the invocation at the inauguration to a Racist minister who was also good on Climate Change and whose ministry ran a clinic for sickle cell anemia?  NEVER WOULD HAPPEN.

    The only reason some people don't get this is because they (and Obama I fear) honestly feel that racism is more dangerous or more vile or more important than anti-gay bigotry.

    Obama has said as much himself by describing his difference with Warren on gay issues as "social issues" that are open for discussion and compromise instead of describing them as "civil rights" issues for which there is no excuse for bigotry.

    Bigotry is bigotry even if it is rooted in deeply held religious beliefs.  And, it is WRONG.  The same religious beliefs were used to justify slavery, were used to justify segregation, were used to justify bans on inter-racial marriage.  They were all proven to be wrong.  Why does anyone still believe that anti-gay bigotry justified with religion isn't also wrong?

    You hit the nail on the head (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by starsandstripes on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:27:21 PM EST
    The very fact that Obama is framing same-sex marriage and gay rights as a "social issue" is infuriating. It is a civil rights issue.

    Parent
    Not only is irony lost on some (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by starsandstripes on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 09:42:03 PM EST
    so is rational thinking and reading comprehension. After reading this, Mahablog lost all credibility with me:

    The point is that BTD is a sick b**** who hasn't reconciled with the fact that Barack Obama beat Hillary Clinton fair and square in the primaries and then went on to win the election, contrary to BTD's predictions, and he can't stand it.

    Was he/she reading the same blog we were?

    He/she drank the super-duper KA (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by nycstray on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 10:31:50 PM EST
    and the effects haven't worn off yet. Generally, reality doesn't matter if they think you've slighted "The One".

    Parent
    well BTD, i'm sure it is, (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 12:16:43 AM EST
    Update - Irony is lost on some.

    but since your post wasn't at all ironic, i don't believe that applies.

    sarcastic yes, ironic not.

    clearly, the poster on the linked blog missed the sarcasm. perhaps, you should attach a 1 or 2oz lead fishing weight to it the next time, so it doesn't go sailing over their head. i suggest the pyramid style, it makes accuracy much easier.

    Ha. Good catch. (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 01:59:26 PM EST
    On the other hand, Sen. Feinstein, who heads the planning of the ceremony, stated on NPR she picked the San Francisco Girls Chorus and San Francisco Boys Chorus because they specially cut a CD to lobby for the spot and because--hey they are from San Francisco, so why not?

    A symbol of homer-ism (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:11:21 PM EST
    Good politics by Feinstein.

    Parent
    Too obvious, I suppose, to (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:10:59 PM EST
    add the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus to the program.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#29)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:08:49 PM EST
    What a missed opportunity!


    Parent
    A shame. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Fabian on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:12:35 PM EST
    I'm not sure how good the SFGMC is, but I'm willing to bet they are awesome at the very least.

    I went googling GMC on youtube once.  I found this one - Los Angeles GMC.  Very funny! link
    (The Cell Block Tango - apropos for a law blog.)

    Parent

    Rick Warren should like this one. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Fabian on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:19:22 PM EST
    SFGMC singing Oh Happy Day.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:27:16 PM EST
    Preach it!

    The worst part (none / 0) (#4)
    by WS on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:36:50 PM EST
    is the Obama team like Axelrod were happy the left was upset over Rick Warren.  

    This (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:37:57 PM EST
    I doubt very much.

    Personally, I think it was an unintended consequence.

    Parent

    Then the transition/inauguration (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:19:26 PM EST
    planning team isn't astute as one would think.

    Parent
    And then the next four years (none / 0) (#25)
    by Cream City on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:49:32 PM EST
    will be full of egregious errors like honoring Warren, who thinks that I ought to go to hell.

    Parent
    Apologies I read the article wrong (none / 0) (#32)
    by WS on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:19:17 PM EST
    MSNBC's First Read were only guessing that Axelrod and Gibb's were smiling not that they were actually smiling or reported to be smiling.  

    When Liberals Attack

    Parent

    Unintended consequences? (none / 0) (#34)
    by Pepe on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:31:00 PM EST
    I would hope you were kidding but you are not.

    How can picking someone who was guaranteed to piss off the gay communnity be unintended??? As if Obama and his entire staff was not smart enough to know and was just oblivious to that fact? Apparently they are not the only ones.

    Parent

    the bully pulpit (none / 0) (#6)
    by joel dan walls on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:42:50 PM EST
    Barack and Michelle Obama have to choose a school for their children. Is their choice supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and "[carry] important symbolism"?

    The White House kitchen is going to have meal ingredients delivered. Is the choice of vendors supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and [carry] important symbolism"? Is the menu supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and "[carry] important symbolism"?

    Barack and Michelle Obama are going to buy Christmas gifts for their children. Are the gifts
    supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and "[carry] important symbolism"?

    The Obama family is going to get a dog and give it a name. Are the breed of dog, its place of origin, its name, and the brand of dog food that it eats supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and "[carry] important symbolism"?

    Barack and Michelle Obama presumably read newspapers, magazines, perhaps even a novel from time to time. Are their choices of reading material supposed to reflect the "bully pulpit" and "[carry] important symbolism"?


    It could have certainly (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:48:41 PM EST
    They chose not to do that in that case.

    Of course, they did not choose a bigoted school - merely a private one.

    Not sure what you think your point is.

    Parent

    It wouldn't be a change of position (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:56:54 PM EST
    The kids attended UC Lab, which is a very good school.

    Parent
    BTW... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:59:40 PM EST
    U of Chicago faculty get free tuition at the Lab School.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:05:35 PM EST
    but It seems to me that they were otherwise in a position to afford it. (Michelle was well compensated, not that it's frankly any of my business).

    Parent
    Yes, I'm sure they could afford it (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:25:10 PM EST
    I kind of wish they would advocate for public schools and walk the walk by sending their kids to public schools. But I understand.

    Parent
    How about giving (none / 0) (#44)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:09:39 PM EST
    allowing poor people to have the same choice in schools.  

    Parent
    Nominate for line of the day (none / 0) (#43)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:08:40 PM EST
    (Michelle was well compensated, not that it's frankly any of my business).


    Parent
    Speaking of symbolism, what does it (none / 0) (#8)
    by tigercourse on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 02:51:17 PM EST
    say about Obama's committment to equality that he has selected women for less then 1 quarter of his cabinet and cabinet level posts?

    I thought the "99 problems" thing had (none / 0) (#19)
    by tigercourse on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:23:03 PM EST
    been debunked? The "sweety" incident was really indicative.

    debunked (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:30:38 PM EST
    I am not sure what that is even supposed to mean anymore.  By debunked do people mean it did not play?  Because it did, I heard it.  Or do people mean he didn't chose the song therefor he is not responsible?  

    Parent
    I loved his explanation of the Sweetie thing (4.40 / 5) (#24)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:33:01 PM EST
    he "had a bad habit of calling women sweetie"....

    WTF is that but sexism?  If I had a bad habit of calling black men "boy" would I be able to claim it was somehow an endearing quirk?

    Parent

    Yes...but only among (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by oldpro on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:51:09 PM EST
    your worshippers.

    Parent
    Cmon..thats not fair (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by ai002h on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:57:45 PM EST
    I have many friends who used that word in college and they were anything but sexist, actually the opposite. Go to any diner and you're bound to find a waittress call you "sweetie". You'll be surprised, but "sweetie" coming from some people is a term of endearment, much like "honey".

    And actually his reason was about the only legitimate one you can give, i.e. its a bad habit. I've had female friends that I talked to a certain way, and I would occassionally slip up and address a girl I wasn't as casual with the same way. It was innocent and it didn't uncover some sexist impulse I had.

    Parent

    There is a B I G difference (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 07:49:59 AM EST
    between a waitress (female) who has no powere over you other than getting your order right calling someone sweetie (and I think they do it to both men and women) and a politician or your boss referring exclusively to women who they hold power over as "sweetie".

    Obama referred to a professional female journalist as "sweetie".  Do you suppose he ever did it to a male journalist?

    Parent

    Wrong (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 11:20:49 AM EST
    Seems to me that the waitress has quite a bit of power over their customers. In America that power is somewhat checked by the system of tipping.

    Yes the customer can complain to the management if offended, but during the transaction of serving a meal, or coffee, the deck of power is stacked in the waitress' favor.

    Parent

    Speaking from a man's POV? (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:04:31 PM EST
    And here I had hoped that (none / 0) (#27)
    by Cream City on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 03:57:03 PM EST
    a Democratic president would use the position as a bully pulpit for Democratic stands on issues . . . such as unions.

    This descendant of Molly McGuires really deplores Obama's stand on secret ballots, btw.  I'm told again and again to just let it go that the guy is as bad or worse than Bush on gender and gender orientation -- as even Bush has not said and done some of the stuff we've seen already from the Obama administration-to-be.  I was told again and again to just let it go when Obama's religiosity was freeky from the get-go and got even worse.

    But when a Democratic president doesn't get it right on union issues, I really don't know what Democrat means anymore.  I do know that a lot of people I know who call themselves Democrats are really just personality-driven and don't give a d*mn about the issues, after all.  

    Cream, the unions (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:16:27 PM EST
    aren't the ones pushing for the secret ballot, the anti-union people are.  Obama's position on card check is the union position.  It know it seems contradictory, but the unions say they'll be more able to sign people up quickly and easily and short-circuit management's ability to mount a heavy-pressure anti-union campaign and intimidate workers.

    Parent
    Huh, not what the union told me (none / 0) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:19:06 PM EST
    at my workplace -- not that I can be in it yet, but we're fighting for a change in state law so that my employee group, the last still banned by state law from collective bargaining, might get a shot at it.

    So we actually don't have a very effective info organization yet, and so I'll doublecheck the info they sent on this.  Thanks.

    Parent

    Random googling (none / 0) (#59)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 09:22:31 AM EST
    From "The Hill" in September:

    "In its memo, the Obama campaign states that the Illinois senator "has been a lifelong advocate for unions and has earned the endorsement of nearly every union in the country."

    It also notes that Obama is a cosponsor of the so-called Employee Free Choice Act, which is also called the "card check" bill. The measure would allow workers to join a union when a majority of them sign authorization cards. Industry groups are strongly opposed to the bill, which is a top priority for unions. Republicans and business groups say the bill would compromise a worker's right to cast a private ballot on whether to join a union.

    The Obama memo says "as president, [Obama] will sign it into law, because workers who want to unionize should be able to.""


    Parent

    Hilda Solis, his Sec of Labor (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by ai002h on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:01:11 PM EST
    is about as pro-union as one could expect, and is certainly a good sign that there'll be a friend of unions in the cabinet. You could at least give Obama credit for that.

    Parent
    Speaking of Unions (none / 0) (#35)
    by Pepe on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:48:59 PM EST
    Notice no one is front paging Obama's finger to the UAW?

    Oh no! He is a nice guy making a 'union' statement about a print shop choice. BS. Look what he is telling the UAW about concessions (i.e. having to compete with the Mexico auto worker) even though the UAW had nothing to do with the decisions made that got the Auto industry in the mess they made for themselves. But the workers have to 'give it up'. Biden was on tune with that this morning too.

    Who can say that is pro union? No one. But then that is why no one is front paging that. Enough with the smoke and mirrors already. Can you say bias?

    Parent

    the bully pulpit and symbolism (none / 0) (#33)
    by joel dan walls on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 04:52:29 PM EST
    I posed a list of rhetorical questions, more or less randomly formulated ones, for a reason. Big Tent Democrat was arguing more or less explicitly that the choice of printer for the inaugural program was a symbolic choice. BTD also implied here--and BTD and/or others have stated explicitly elsewhere--that having Rick Warren giving the inaugural invocation was another symbolic gesture, and one that amounts to sticking a finger in the eye of the left. I am merely trying to raise the point that what is or isn't a symbolic gesture is always going to be open to interpretation.

    Suppose that Obama announces that the White House kitchen will be strictly vegetarian during his time in office, but provides no explanation. People in the blogosphere would then argue as to whether this is a symbolic gesture. Some would almost certainly assert that it is, but would probably wind up disagreeing as to what exactly the symbolism is: something about sustainable farming? something about not eating anything with a face? something about promoting a healthy diet? We would moreover hear arguments about whether or not this symbolic gesture--whatever it is exactly--is a legitimate use of the bully pulpit.

    It is possible that Obama asked Warren to give the invocation because he likes Warren personally despite obvious disagreements both political and theological. I don't know and Obama hasn't said.

    Here's what I would like to see the bully pulpit used for: to promote rational discource, not appeals to authority. Rick Warren is all about appeals to authority at the expense of rational discourse. That's what I find troubling about him and the tradition he represents.


    It's simple (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Warren Terrer on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:30:56 PM EST
    When Obama picks a union shop, it's 'symbolic' of his progressivism. When Obama picks a non-union shop, he's reaching out to the other side. It's always win-win for Obama!

    Parent
    Obama has said (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:31:39 PM EST
    my good friend.

    The emptiness of your points is quite pronounced.

    Really, if you do not want to ask yourself why a union shop, why a green shop, fine by me.

    But please, try these lines elsewhere.

    We like intelligent discussion here.

    Parent

    I think they were expecting (none / 0) (#36)
    by ai002h on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 05:49:02 PM EST
    criticism from the left and, particularly, from the gay and lesbian community. However, what has taken them by surprise is the level of criticism and outrage, and how its come from not just the GLBT community, but the broader progressive community as a whole. They underestimated Prop 8 and how it mobilized forces far greater than the actual GLBT community.

    I see a huge silver lining because I think this could be an opportunity to drive the point home, BEFORE he's inaugurated, that triangulation will not work this time. If this incident prevents Obama from going back on his word regarding DOMA etc.., then we'll be counting our blessings that Rick Warren was chosen to give the invocation. The point has to be driven home though so that Obama understands that not supporting gay rights LEGISLATIVELY is not only breaking his promise but is also a move with political consequences.

    Of course there's the little matter (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by starsandstripes on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:01:56 PM EST
    of Rick Warren's stance on the woman's choice to choose and her role in a marriage, but not many people are talking about that. That does add to the outrage.

    Parent
    Yes, women are Nazis (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Cream City on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:51:44 PM EST
    to Warren, if women exercise their reproductive rights as defined by the Supreme Court -- since he calls abortions a new Holocaust.  Nice.

    But to be expected, we can suppose, after Obama had an invocation! at the Democratic Party convention and picked a pastor who blasted the party platform plank on women's reproductive rights.

    This is not what it was supposed to mean if a Democrat won, was it?

    Parent

    On the other hand (none / 0) (#41)
    by ai002h on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 06:36:56 PM EST
    it also helps those who believe this isn't Obama indicating he won't be a friend to the gay and lesbian community because Obama has a pretty strong and much clearer record on women's issues, and is unlikely to cross any of the women's activist groups.

    As you can see, I'm a glass is half-full kinda guy:)

    Parent

    His record in Illinois on women's issues (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Cream City on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:52:38 PM EST
    was not what many women there called "clear."

    What was his record in Congress that was so strong for women's rights?

    Parent

    Voting record maybe (none / 0) (#42)
    by starsandstripes on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 07:00:49 PM EST
    but his campaign has been pretty tone-deaf to women. And him constantly asking that women  consult their pastors before getting an abortion doesn't bode well either.

    Parent
    Warren is an equal opportunity ignoramus, (none / 0) (#61)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 03:11:03 PM EST
    women's rights, stem cell research, human equality. If the antithesis of hope and change is what you are looking for, the Reverend is your man.

    Parent
    Ok, this just cracks me up (none / 0) (#51)
    by nycstray on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:14:23 PM EST
    The employees, all union members, are working overtime to produce the invitations, using traditional printing processes that require real craftsmanship.
    (from update link)

    A "traditional" print shop is so booked up in this day and age that their workers are working overtime to meet a deadline a month away?! Please . . . . Methinks some lesser clients would get the bump in favor of the President. Or there had to be another "traditional" shop somewhere that wasn't as busy. Unless of course they're going as "traditional" as the Gutenberg press . . . .

    The mahablog people are funny (none / 0) (#52)
    by andgarden on Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 08:15:01 PM EST
    I think they could properly be called ObamaFascists.