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Monday Afternoon OpenThread

I've been out of commission all day. Anything exciting happen?

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    Krugman gave his Nobel speech (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:26:47 PM EST
    but I've not yet seen the video anywhere.

    Oh, and I'm almost through my first bottle of hand cream this winter.

    Thanks for the reminder (none / 0) (#12)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:44:05 PM EST
    I'm almost through my hand cream also! I keep it at my side these days  ;)

    Parent
    Last year I found a perfect kind (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:48:48 PM EST
    Aveeno Intense Relief. Amazon is now out, but I have a 3 pack left.

    Parent
    Thanks! I like their stuff (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:01:00 PM EST
    I have a moisturizing body wash from them that I use. Def adds another layer of moisture :)

    I saved the link so I can order when it's in. :)

    Parent

    The best stuff is Pacquins! (none / 0) (#43)
    by hairspray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:16:50 PM EST
    Very hard to find it though.  Very creamy, sinks right in and gets rid of the chapped feeling overnight.

    Parent
    I have the (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by robert72 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:09:17 PM EST
    diabetic hands - thick rough skin that cracks and peels and is so sore. Any suggestions out there? The best I've found is called Miracle Hand Repair and is 60% aloe....

    Parent
    Try pure lanolin (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:58:31 PM EST
    I'm not diabetic, but I know a lot of people who are, and pure lanolin seems to really help them.

    It's very inexpensive. You can get it at a good pharmacy. It comes out of the tube solid, but "melts" upon contact with the skin.

    Parent

    Kinda (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:17:45 PM EST
    lanolin is considered a "wax" more than an oil, and does need some heat to melt.  Warm your hands and the lanolin in warm water if you tend to have cold hands.  (I've got a container of it.)

    Parent
    Wow, you just gave me a memory (none / 0) (#96)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:31:01 AM EST
    My mom used Pacquins when I was a kid and I haven't thought of it in at least 40 years.  Now I can see the jar and smell and feel it.

    Thanks!!

    Parent

    Mine too. And my same (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:01:22 AM EST
    thought when I read the name.  

    Parent
    I was a nurse in a children's hospital (none / 0) (#103)
    by hairspray on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 07:44:33 PM EST
    and was required to wash my hands between each baby for 2 minutes.  Try taking care of 5 babies and washing every 5-8 minutes.  Pacquins is what we used.  Once in a while you can find it in a Longs or Rite Aid store.

    Parent
    Another excellent choice (none / 0) (#56)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:08:09 PM EST
    and verrrry inexpensive is No Crack by Restoration Hardware.... comes in scented & unscented and lots of different sizes at Xmas time (at least it used to!)

    Parent
    Is this unscented? (none / 0) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:44:12 PM EST
    I have dry skin anyway, but my water (from Lake Champlain) is so heavily chlorinated, it's just hell on my hands.  I have a filter on my showerhead which does a fantastic job, but they don't fit on my bathroom sink and are a pain in the neck in the kitchen.

    Parent
    It's not perfumed (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:51:14 PM EST
    but it does have a very faint smell.

    Parent
    And since I can't talk this up enough. (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:05:26 PM EST
    Via iTunes.

    The good news is, today was my first day of vacation, meaning I was paying bills this morning instead of over the weekend like I usually do. So I caught the &^^ almost immediately. Had I paid over the weekend, it would have been several days before I figured out what was going on.

    Kudos to my bank - they took care of it almost immediately and got all the charges reversed.

    Someone stole your CC # (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:30:41 PM EST
    and used it in itunes? Or worse, your debit card? (With the latter, you're out the money until your bank corrects the problem; that's why Visa/MC linked debit cards are evil.)

    Parent
    CC (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:32:41 PM EST
    I've now shut down everything, from my eBay account to Paypal.

    Parent
    Ive heard that... (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Thanin on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:49:10 PM EST
    paypal is the devil.  Supposedly theyre very corrupt.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:45:22 PM EST
    What are you talking about?

    Parent
    PayPal is very safe (none / 0) (#73)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:51:46 PM EST
    safer than a credit card because you don't give your number to the sellers. I've never heard of a paypal account being hacked (knock on wood.)

    Parent
    I've heard horror stories (none / 0) (#77)
    by andgarden on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:17:49 AM EST
    of people having their accounts frozen and audited for bizarre reasons. I would not keep any money with them, or tell them my checking account number.

    Parent
    Not according to my bank (none / 0) (#85)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:09:39 AM EST
    They said (and i quote): Paypal's the worst.

    Parent
    Rice n Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:29:38 PM EST
    Dine together tonight. Rice hosts, may make southern fried chicken.

    'I think she's going to be terrific,' Rice said. ..

    war & piece

    The election is over - Kilroy WINS! (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:37:29 PM EST
    Huzzah!  The home of DFHs and gays no longer have a Republican representing them!

    Now if Franken can clinch his contest, I'll be happier.

    (Don't ask me about global climate change.  It's looking like Change is heading our way.  This dry autumn is due to a change in Artic atmospheric circulation.  No word on any changes in oceanic circulation.)

    Yeah, and Winter came a month early (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:47:45 PM EST
    It was 7 degrees this morning in NE Penna. First we got the early snow and now cold temps. All I can say is Spring better start in February.
    50 expected on Wed with rain. The weather is so confused this year. Heh.

    Parent
    Oceanic changes (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:54:46 PM EST
    will hit the coasts first - and hardest.  Plus changes to the (remaining) fisheries.

    Atmospheric changes are faster and more transient.  Oceanic changes are slower, last longer and have the most potential for catastrophic changes.  The atmospheric changes are nothing to ignore since they can wreak havoc on food production.

    I'm tempted to look into stocking up on food for long term storage.  My gardening plans for this spring will be reconsidered.

    Parent

    You telling me I should enjoy (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:55:59 PM EST
    my Maine lobsters while I can get them?

    One of my favorite foods in the world. . .

    Parent

    I can be sure of nothing. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:05:47 PM EST
    But your Maine lobsters are probably safe for a while.

    The real question is: Where will all that cold water that was once the Arctic ice cap go?

    Ice doesn't move much.  Water does.  The Younger Dryas period appears to have been caused by an interruption of the thermohaline ocean circulation.  What exactly caused the interruption is unknown.  What effect would a large influx of cold water have?  We don't know.

    Parent

    Beachfront property in Pittsburgh! (none / 0) (#24)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:07:37 PM EST
    (UGH).

    Parent
    And Alabama above the panhandle (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:33:31 PM EST
    goody goody

    Parent
    Anybody want a beachfront trailor? (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:39:32 PM EST
    I might just have one for sale, heh.

    Parent
    And Florida (none / 0) (#65)
    by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:55:22 PM EST
    Gone.

    Parent
    Miami (none / 0) (#80)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:22:59 AM EST
    The most densely populated coastal city in America.

    If not "gone" then waiting for the next hurricane or typhoon to come calling.  Repeat for similar cities all over the globe.

    Parent

    Interesting note. (none / 0) (#25)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:16:34 PM EST
    The whole of human civilization including  agriculture and metal working happened since the last major Ice Age.  We've never dealt with a major climactic change as a civilization before.  

    Last major ice age peaked approximately 18,000 years ago.
    10,000 BC agriculture
    3,000 BC bronze age
    1,300 BC iron age

    Parent

    An old Greek figured it out (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:18:35 PM EST
    Try this.

    Take a glass and fill it full of ice cubes and water right to the brim.

    Let ice cubes melt.

    You will then know what the water will do.

    Parent

    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:59:41 PM EST
    Sign of my Luddite-ness: after years of searching for the perfect Solar Dehydrator, I finally bought an electric one a week or so ago. And I'm already making garden plans.

    A financial planner in these parts gave the following advice - published in the paper, no less - learn to grow your own food. !.

    The good news for me is that, even though I'm not crazy about having taken on a mortgage just before it all caved in, I have a perfect sunroom here, and I plan to use it for winter and more delicate crops. It's perfect for lettuces, for example, which I've never had much luck with outside, thanks to our wildly variable springtime temps and our boiling summers.

    Parent

    Decided last year that this Spring (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:25:18 PM EST
    I would go for a garden. Haven't done it since 2001 for my Uncle. I believe it is a good idea in as much as there are so many scary things happening to our fruits and veggies. Last year it was tomatoes. So for peace of mind I plan on growing my own. It is exciting too when watching as things grow. I know, not the same as politics or dancing until dawn, but it is more a feel of accomplishment.

    Parent
    See if you can give (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:27:19 PM EST
    I thought I was one of the few who knew about (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:50:08 PM EST
    Ramapo's... excellent/superior disease resistance in Alabama. That's saying something.

    Parent
    I'm from Philly, so these used to be (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:54:02 PM EST
    the Jersey tomato. But that was before my time, and now, as everywhere else, we get hockey pucks at the supermarket.

    Parent
    Haven't tried the Ramapo (none / 0) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:57:02 PM EST
    but had a nice Rutgers this summer.

    It's not widely know, but Monsanto has bought up pretty much all the more common tomato varieties-- everything from Celebrity (my absolute favorite) to Big Boy, Early Girl, on and on and on.

    All the more reason to go for heirloom plants/seeds where you can find them.

    Also I only recently learned there are Brandywines and then there are Brandywines.  The original old variety is quite pink and has (to me) a great balance of acid and sweet.  But there are a lot of newer ones out there, which are more widely sold, that aren't so pink and are much, much sweeter.  If you like a primarily sweet tomato, you'll love them. But if you prefer a real tang, look for the older ones.

    One way to tell before buying a plant is that the leaves on the old Brandywines are nearly indistinguishable from potato leaves, where the newer ones are more like the recent hybrid tomatoes.

    Parent

    We had the old Brandywines from our CSA (none / 0) (#78)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:36:52 AM EST
    I've been seed saving {grin} I didn't realize Monsanto had invaded the seed market so much until about 2yrs ago. There's a couple of heirloom seed companies that sell on Amazon and so you can find a decent selection there. They have the 5 colors of carrots variety pack and some other fun ones  :) We also have a few farmers that sell them at the farmers market here.

    I was thinking of sending my dad some peanut "seeds" from a southern seed saver exchange. They're supposed to be pretty hardy for droughts. I thought perhaps he would get a kick out of growing them during the CA water shortage (turning to drought if they don't get enough rain this season)  ;)

    Parent

    Johnny's Select Seeds (none / 0) (#81)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:27:44 AM EST
    Good company and tests all seeds and the packages are labeled with the germination rates. Website

    Parent
    There are dozens (none / 0) (#102)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:13:18 PM EST
    of first-rate organic and heirloom seed companies with Web presences.

    I like Amazon, but they don't need to control everything sold on the Web, so I try to find a direct seller before going through them.

    Parent

    ... think - or claim.

    The secret is your soil. I've always supplemented mine with coffee grounds, lots of calcium (in various forms), and mulched with straw, which breaks down into the most gorgeous stuff imaginable.

    Anything will grow in that stuff. Also, place your beds in sunlight appropriate for your area. Here, that means pretty much anything in full sun gets zapped - my best stuff grows with about 3-4 hours of sun, the rest of the time in the shade.

    The trick for me this year will be that a lot of stuff will have to be container grown. I have a hound puppy, and she loves to dig. And there's no possibility I'll get barriers up before spring.

    Also plant for pollinators. Scarlet runner beans attract everything, and they're beautiful and hardy - they can stand full sun.

    Parent

    Feeding yourself out of your own (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:00:42 AM EST
    soil is a huge high, I think, not to mention being able to have fantastic fresh produce just by stepping out your door.

    I have a large garden and have been getting serious about putting stuff up-- many pints of tomatoes and tomato sauce, freezing veggies, freezing veg soups and purees, storage potatoes and winter squash, masses of pesto frozen in ice cube trays, barely cooked strawberries with sugar making divine frozen sauce for ice cream to defrost in mid-winter, etc.

    Parent

    A new report (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:17:14 PM EST
    shows all temps in the ocean lower....

    So much for the man mad global warming hoax.

    Parent

    I'd like to say that is good news. (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:22:03 PM EST
    But it isn't.

    Good news would be the ice caps returning to the size they were a century ago.  

    Ice melts, oceans cool, probably temporarily.  Then what happens when we run out of ice?

    Parent

    I hadn't heard (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:23:51 PM EST
    "X just good cooler, so global warming isn't real!" in years. That's a real flashback.

    Parent
    *got (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:24:12 PM EST
    sun spots have decreased (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
    that is the driver... has been forever.

    Parent
    The Day After Tomorrow?

    I hate to burst your bubble, but that was a movie.

    Parent

    You are about three years (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:25:26 AM EST
    behind.

    Nothing new.

    yadda yadda

    Parent

    Show us your evidence (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:58:13 AM EST
    Links to published scientific articles supporting your case, please.

    Parent
    Oh rilly? (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Fabian on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:14:30 PM EST
    I'm trying to figure out how one would prove sunspots have been THE single most important factor in determining global climate changes since "forever".

    Parent
    You believe in man made global warming ? (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:23:32 AM EST
    And you want something proved?

    hehehe

    Parent

    Start here (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 08:44:06 AM EST
    David Evans

    I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector.

    FullCAM models carbon flows in plants, mulch, debris, soils and agricultural products, using inputs such as climate data, plant physiology and satellite data. I've been following the global warming debate closely for years.

    When I started that job in 1999 the evidence that carbon emissions caused global warming seemed pretty good: CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the old ice core data, no other suspects.

    The evidence was not conclusive
    , but why wait until we were certain when it appeared we needed to act quickly? Soon government and the scientific community were working together and lots of science research jobs were created. We scientists had political support, the ear of government, big budgets, and we felt fairly important and useful (well, I did anyway). It was great. We were working to save the planet.

    But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

    There has not been a public debate about the causes of global warming and most of the public and our decision makers are not aware of the most basic salient facts:

    1. The greenhouse signature is missing. We have been looking and measuring for years, and cannot find it.

    Each possible cause of global warming has a different pattern of where in the planet the warming occurs first and the most. The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.

    If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.

    When the signature was found to be missing in 2007 (after the latest IPCC report), alarmists objected that maybe the readings of the radiosonde thermometers might not be accurate and maybe the hot spot was there but had gone undetected. Yet hundreds of radiosondes have given the same answer, so statistically it is not possible that they missed the hot spot.

    Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot.
    If you believe that you'd believe anything.

    Link



    Parent
    Oh please (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:08:18 AM EST
    David Evans' training is in electrical engineering. You know: the people who develop cell phones and more efficient alarm clocks.

    By his own admission, he knows nothing of climatology.

    You can do better than that surely!

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    Then I suppose you will completely ignore the Chairman of the UN's IPCC..... who is a railroad engineer.

    cho cho !!!!!!!!!!!

    hehe

    Yet last week's latest episode is far from the first time Dr Hansen's methodology has been called in question. In 2007 he was forced by Mr Watts and Mr McIntyre to revise his published figures for US surface temperatures, to show that the hottest decade of the 20th century was not the 1990s, as he had claimed, but the 1930s.

    Another of his close allies is Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC, who recently startled a university audience in Australia by claiming that global temperatures have recently been rising "very much faster" than ever, in front of a graph showing them rising sharply in the past decade. In fact, as many of his audience were aware, they have not been rising in recent years and since 2007 have dropped.

    Dr Pachauri, a former railway engineer with no qualifications in climate science, may believe what Dr Hansen tells him. But whether, on the basis of such evidence, it is wise for the world's governments to embark on some of the most costly economic measures ever proposed, to remedy a problem which may actually not exist, is a question which should give us all pause for thought.

    Link

    Parent

    hehe (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:08:32 PM EST
    Recently the alarmists have suggested we ignore the radiosonde thermometers, but instead take the radiosonde wind measurements, apply a theory about wind shear, and run the results through their computers to estimate the temperatures. They then say that the results show that we cannot rule out the presence of a hot spot.
    If you believe that you'd believe anything.

    When the man made global warming hoaxers run out of one theory to make you shiver in fright, they just break out another one....

    Pay no attention to the ACTUAL measurements... just give us your belief.... You did vote for Obama, didn't you??

    yadda yadda

    Parent

    It is my understanding (none / 0) (#60)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:15:37 PM EST
    that when parts of Polar ice caps or whatever break up/off, the initial effect is cold weather; and now perhaps cold ocean temperatures; just temporary.  Someone explained this to me 10 or so years ago when we had our first really cold winter in years.  I was living in Philly suburbs; temp fell from about 40 one day to 19 and lower with wind/chill; the day started with rain, which turned to sleet, then snow, and all the roads were literally covered with a sheet of ice in PA; Governor declared a state of emergency; driving to work was like ice skating inside a big weapon; traffic moved at a snail's pace; took me 3 hours to go 9 miles.  

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 12:05:18 AM EST
    We went from mid-30s last night (Sunday) to mid single digits by morning today.  Then we're going back up a bit slower tomorrow, but talking about 40s by Wed.

    The thing to remember about climate change and global warming is the main effect, they predict, is to make weather wildly unpredictable and with big swings while the globe overall heats up.  That could absolutely mean colder weather in some parts of the world for years while other parts get swamped under by the oceans.

    I'm kinda glad I'm nearly 60, actually.  I don't really want to see much of how this plays out.

    Parent

    The unpredictability (none / 0) (#82)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:33:55 AM EST
    is what can really devastate agriculture.

    Farmers plant according to predictable weather patterns.  "crop failure" is the bogey man for me.

    Parent

    Rarely does winter really arrive here before mid-January. And it's typically gone by March.

    Not anymore ...

    Parent

    Gator Update (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:59:36 PM EST
    The Florida Gators open as a 3 point favorite over the Sooners in the National Championship game.

    Bah (none / 0) (#36)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:39:15 PM EST
    The Gators are toast. OU will chew them up and spit them out!

    Parent
    And now Budweiser is cutting jobs (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM EST
    Wow. You would think that was the last to go. Can't blame any of my friends.

    When people can't afford beer (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:30:24 PM EST
    something seriously wrong.

    Parent
    especially really bad, (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:55:37 PM EST
    cheap beer.

    When people can't afford beer something seriously wrong.

    perhaps we'll see a return to the days of bathtub gin.

    by the way jim, if you put ice in a bucket of warm water (melting ice bergs), the overall temp. of the water drops, temporarily.

    Parent

    There's nothing especially wrong with Bud (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:58:34 PM EST
    It's bland and generic, but then so is Coca-Cola.

    Given a choice between Bud in a can and Heineken in one of those nasty green bottles, I'll take the Bud.

    Parent

    there's nothing especially right (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by cpinva on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:55:29 PM EST
    with it either. bland beer for the bland masses. no taste, no body, bitter after-taste. if they stopped making it tomorrow, no one would notice.

    There's nothing especially wrong with Bud

    try a guiness, or a corona with a slice.

    Parent

    Oy (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:00:55 PM EST
    To begin with, lots of people would notice if it disappeared. It's relatively cheap, widely available, and has an inoffensive taste. Not everyone can afford to drink imports, and it's fairly elitist to suggest it IMO.

    Guinness I personally find bitter, though I know many people who like it. As to Corona, well, I don't have any problem with it. But my understanding is that they don't shove a lime in the bottle in Mexico. I think the reason people started doing that here is because it often arrived skunked. A clear bottle will do that.

    Parent

    what is the best/ (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:12:50 PM EST
    cheapest import?  If you want to spend less than $20 per case domestic is your bag.  Negro Modelo is a little more expensive, I like that quite a bit.

    And now tis the season for yummy ales!  Though they'll fill you up like a Thanksgiving meal :(

    Parent

    Well, I'm not a beer expert (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:22:16 PM EST
    so I wouldn't know. I'd guess that the cheapest import would probably be Canadian, except that I think most "Canadian" beers are actually brewed here for the U.S. market.

    I like really weak beer, which is probably why I like cheap lagers. . .

    Parent

    Good cheap beer (none / 0) (#93)
    by CST on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:36:37 AM EST
    The best is Pabst by far.  Bud - you are right it's very clean - but it's also like water that way.

    Yuengling rocks, especially when it's 50 cents at happy hour in the burgh'.  I really miss those prices...

    Parent

    but not a Bud Light... (none / 0) (#44)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:32:01 PM EST
    they give me a headache for some reason.

    Parent
    I prefer Miller Lite (none / 0) (#57)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:09:36 PM EST
    over Bud Light.  I agree, Bud Light is just really bad.  And I used to like Coors Light...but when I bought a case recently I regretted it.  So gross!

    I don't recall Yuengling being as popular 5-10 years ago as it is now...correct me if I'm wrong.  It really took off I think (at least on the East Coast).

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    Yuengling is a favorite of mine (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:24:34 PM EST
    It's a PA special, and persists mostly because of the archaic distribution system there.

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    Don't knock Bud Cans.... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:46:41 AM EST
    nothing better after a hard fought touch football game..

    You don't want Hoegarten or Guinness or Stella Artois at a time like that...you want a Bud or a Pabst or some Miller High Life....ice ice cold, goes down like water.

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    Peanut Butter (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 10:13:17 PM EST
    and lower cost breakfast cereals have, in the past, sold better during tough times and for obvious reasons.

    Less beer more corn flakes.

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    Inferior goods! (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 10:19:40 PM EST
    Budweiser was purchased by InBev (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:01:55 PM EST
    A Belgian company.  They're cutting jobs because they have a headquarters in Belgium already and don't need to maintain the St Louis Bud HQ as it was.  These cuts were predictable when the sale went through this past summer.

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    New Belgium (none / 0) (#84)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 07:03:12 AM EST
    Best domestics: anything from the New Belgium Brewing in Fort Collins, Colorado: Fat Tire, Blue Paddle (it is especially good.  Boulevard (brewed in Kansas City) is not bad either and its beginning to show up around the US.  

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    I love Fat Tire (none / 0) (#97)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 10:35:45 AM EST
    On of the worst things about moving from Colorado is the unavailablility of Fat Tire, or Avalanche (that from the Breckenridge Brewing Company.

    On the other hand ,I've lost weight not drinking beer.

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    Isn't that the truth (none / 0) (#100)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:10:03 AM EST
    I cut back on beer consumption about a year ago. Lost about five pounds just in the first week. Beer really packs it on, especially those heavy ones, i.e. Fat Tire. Come to think of it, do ya think that's why they named it such? Hmmm

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    Not quite sure of your residence (none / 0) (#101)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 11:12:22 AM EST
    but some of the new belgium brews are beginning to show up further and further from Colorado. Pretty much available everywhere in Kansas, Texas and most parts of MO. Also beginning to appear in SoCal.

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    Supreme Court (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:46:29 PM EST

    Its too bad that the Supreme Court did not take the Obama birth cert case and swat it out of the park.  The nuts that brought it are worse than 911 Truthers.

    F-18 crashed in San Diego about a mile (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:15:06 PM EST
    from my house.  At least three people on the ground were killed.  One unaccounted for.  Several houses and more vehicles burned.  Pilot bailed at the last minute, parachuted into a tree, is in hospital.  Practicing carrier take offs and landings from Miramar.  

    Yikes (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 11:26:52 PM EST
    WTH? (none / 0) (#83)
    by Fabian on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 04:35:48 AM EST
    Mechanical?

    Hard to imagine it was pilot error unless the pilot was really effed up.  Has this happened before?

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    A retired military pilot (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 09:58:34 AM EST
    saw the plane go down and went looking for the pilot, who sd. he "lost" one engine over the ocean, head to Miramar, "lost" second engine. It has happened before, afterall, they are practicing.  But not that close to my house.  

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    Oh, and ... (none / 0) (#4)
    by The Poster Formerly Known as cookiebear on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:29:45 PM EST
    OU's going to kick Florida's ass! Might as well give up now!!!

    My gal is flying back from Miami Basel... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Salo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:37:46 PM EST
    ...tonight.

    She had... (none / 0) (#9)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:40:12 PM EST
    perfect weather

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    I'm jealous (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:41:07 PM EST
    It's freezing up here.

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    Not bad out sans wind (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST
    with the clouds moving in :) I was just out with the dog and didn't even need my gloves. Last night, 'nuther story!

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    And Great Sales (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 05:42:10 PM EST
    30% - 50% off, is what I hear.

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    it was rotten apparently (none / 0) (#22)
    by Salo on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 06:04:52 PM EST
    The arts are the pit canary.

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    From BusinessWeek (none / 0) (#51)
    by ding7777 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:49:19 PM EST
    101 Best Web Freebies
    BusinessWeek.com scoured the Internet for the most useful free products and services available online that you probably don't know about


    Wow, thanks (none / 0) (#79)
    by Spamlet on Tue Dec 09, 2008 at 03:17:38 AM EST
    Just spent the last half hour browsing through that marvelous collection of free stuff.

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