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Monday Open Thread

I'll be at work most of the day. Here's an open thread for you. You pick the topics, whatever is on your mind today.

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    it's short--so I just copied from MSNBC.com (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:11:44 PM EST
    From NBC's Mark Hudspeth and Mark Murray
    When asked about the AP report that Obama and Edwards meeting is not happening today, the Obama campaign told us to talk to the Edwards camp. However, when pressed, they said it wouldn't be inaccurate to report that the meeting will not happen today or tomorrow.

    A source close to Edwards confirms that the meeting has been canceled. But the source doesn't know the reason behind it; it could be something as simple as a scheduling conflict.

    It could be personal reasons (none / 0) (#6)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:20:26 PM EST
    so I certainly hope that Elizabeth Edwards is doing well.  I admire her so much.  Btw, it's "Think Pink" week, the annual Valentine's Day week to think about and work for research on and a cure for breast cancer.

    Parent
    I wouldn't be surprised (none / 0) (#11)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:26:32 PM EST
    if it were Elizabeth, too.  As I noted in a comment yesterday, here, we didn't see too much (if any) of her during the last weeks of the Edwards campaign proper. Given the nature and stage of her illness, I would not be surprised in the least if (at minimum) her health was taking a turn for the worse and all of John's time.  If I were married to someone in her straits, I'd want to be spending as much time as I could with that spouse, because ... well, you know.

    Parent
    Heck, I'd want to spend a lot of time (none / 0) (#15)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:30:30 PM EST
    with her when healthy, too!  Yes, I saw your comment yesterday on not seeing much of her lately.  I have been through this with many women friends and hope it's just because of the horrible fatigue.  I am keeping the faith for her, him, and all of them.

    Parent
    I dunno, folks (none / 0) (#23)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:41:02 PM EST
    this is the south.  You don't say you're going to go see someone and then back out.  Just doesn't happen.

    Also, I am curious about Obama not committing to these debates and appearances.  Add to that the fact that he's not really mingling with the press and...who does this remind you of?

    If you are going to be for the people, then you've got to answer the people's questions sometimes.  Speaking of which--at Politico, they let you send in questions for the debate.  Mine is: Senator Obama, you often cite polls saying you would win by a higher margin against Senator McCain as a reason democrats should give you the nomination.  If the polls change, and Senator Clinton moves ahead or is shown to be able to win by the same margin, what, then is your case for electability?

    Parent

    Clinton 46, McCain 45 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 11:50:45 AM EST
    ssee ap.

    Ten months out polls (none / 0) (#35)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:48:21 PM EST
    Good article on how bad polls are for GE at The Left CoasterLooking Ahead to the General Election - Part 2: Polls, Favorability and Electability

    Parent
    Re: the meeting between Obama and Edwards (none / 0) (#2)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:06:17 PM EST
    has been cancelled (reported by MSNBC) and Obama campaign saying talk to Edwards about reason....no link just heard on the TV....

    maybe so, but I heard (none / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:12:06 PM EST
    Edwards, HRC and 'Bam are all fond of using that newfangled invention called the "telephone".  Might be that they communicate via that, or it might be that the mere mention in the press of Edwrads' considering endorsement was the purpose of the exercise.  Just a reminder, that is.

    IIRC, he does have a block, small though it might be, of delegates pledged to him.  

    Changing topics - you live in the ranch country of SE MT, right?  

    Parent

    right..thats where I live (none / 0) (#14)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:29:34 PM EST
    Why do you know this?? (none / 0) (#24)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:41:36 PM EST
    and how is it important???

    Parent
    scribe flyfishes. (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:43:05 PM EST
    that would not account for how he knows (none / 0) (#29)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:44:51 PM EST
    so sorry but no cigar LOL...

    Parent
    well if I did and I might have (none / 0) (#40)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:51:45 PM EST
    Just interesting that Scribe asked me, and this isnt a great place for flyfishing....

    Parent
    You mentioned it any number (none / 0) (#52)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:32:02 PM EST
    of times before (talking about living on the ranch and such).

    And I know SE MT is not flyfishing country - SW MT is.  All of MT is beautiful, though.  I almost moved there about 15 yr ago, until the answer I got to "what do you do in the winter?", i.e., "we move to Arizona" made clear what I would be up against.

    Reasons I asked it were (a) is there any continuing reaction in the area to the death in Iraq of the sergeant from that area who'd been one of the 7 who wrote the NYT op-ed against the war and (b) did you ever read my diary on that subject, here?

    Parent

    Um I am almost exactly where that Sgt. was from (none / 0) (#61)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:52:00 PM EST
    and I join in sometimes in a blog called Milescity.com, however it is a VERY VERY BIG REPUBLICAN BLOG as the area is very very red and altho several of us tried to get that discussion going it was quickly shut down....Was so sad and all his family wanted to do was avoid the subject and bury their loved one which was understandable...another liberal voice on that blog would be welcome....:-)

    Parent
    Did you read the diary? (none / 0) (#83)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:24:28 PM EST
    Y'know, beyond what I wrote there, I have two more things to say.

    I noted the deceased did not have "...the luxury of soft hands and soft words".  I wrote that because, as I was writing the diary, memory brought back the opportunity I had many years ago to meet the then-current Army Chief of Staff (4 stars) in a receiving line.  The one thing I took away from that was wonderment at just how soft his hands were.

    I later found out about the politesse and skill of lying I also discussed.

    Second, by not addressing the failings of policy, strategy, integrity and honesty which ultimately took those two (along with their many comrades) to their graves, but instead shouting down those of us who ask the uncomfortable questions and state the uncomfortable facts, the Red Red Red bloggers you mention do a horrible disservice to those dead.  Burying the reasons behind their deaths - along with their bodies, as it were - means indeed that nothing was learned from those deaths, society gained neither wisdom, perspective nor knowledge, and in the end, their sacrifice was wasted.  It's made worse when the waste is occasioned not by ignorance or no knowledge, but by active suppression of the knowledge and information though the offices of a shouting mob that wants neither to hear nor listen.  No irony, then, that they were buried not in their home towns but in Arlington, far from where anyone who knew them when would have to pass their graves and be confronted with the knowledge, and the knowledge which had been suppressed.  

    Parent

    HATS OFF TO YOU (none / 0) (#105)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:49:53 PM EST
    you do write beautifully...and yes I did read your diary and completely agree...I just wish I had the stamina and the health and the writing ability to fight these red bloggers, but alas I possess none of that...they are sadly alive and well on that blog I mentioned and attack fast and often if one tries to bring it up....So I have backed off as it only makes my supply of Nitro for my ticker go down lol. I hate some of the politics expressed on that site and have really tried to argue health care but to no avail....

    Parent
    I understand (none / 0) (#111)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:54:36 PM EST
    Take care of yourself.

    Parent
    wow! (none / 0) (#3)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:09:44 PM EST
    they said that?  "Talk to Edwards about the reason the meeting was cancelled?"

    Holy crap.

    I asked this earlier:  I got an email from Clinton's folks saying that Obama was still refusing to debate.  Anyone else have the status on this?  My investigoogling only pulled up a really disturbing YouTube video called Hot for Hillary.

    Also, I got a phone call last night from Obama's campaign asking for money.  I said, "Let me stop you there.  I am so firmly in the Clinton camp that I don't want to waste your time," and the caller said,  "She's a great candidate, isn't she?"  Which I thought was nice, even though I'm sure they are coached to say that.

    Very pleasant, but I was shocked to get a solicitation from the campaign that has already raised zillions of dollars.  Anyone else getting these calls?

    Cold call for money? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
    Never heard of that, votes, yes. Wonder if it was legit? Been in the Southwestern desert for 3 days, came back and nothing sorted out. Darn.

    Parent
    holy smokes! (none / 0) (#18)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:38:12 PM EST
    Stellaaa...you missed the story about Rezko agreeing to testify against Obama?

    (hahaha, just kidding.  I just wanted to get Stellaaa's cardio up for the day.)

    Parent

    Kathy.... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:40:21 PM EST
    Good one.

    Parent
    heh-heh-heh... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:42:18 PM EST
    gotcha.

    Parent
    He is not confirming a debate (none / 0) (#12)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:28:27 PM EST
    in Milwaukee, a few days before the primary on the 19th -- sponsored by ABC as well as local tv, radio, and the second-largest college campus in town (Marquette) and to be moderated by Stephanopoulos.

    Clinton confirmed for it and for the big annual Dem event in this state to be held in Milwaukee next weekend, too.  Obama was previously announced as speaking, too, but now won't confirm that, either.

    He is coming to Madison this week, where he has the best chance of getting lots of votes -- but it's second to Milwaukee for Dem votes, Milwaukee has more college students with all campuses combined, and Milwaukee has mor ethan 95% of the AAs in the state.  Seems weird he's not confirming yet to come to Milwaukee -- but such matters change in a minute. . . .

    As we saw today, with Chelsea Clinton at the biggest campus in town, U of Wisconsin-Milwaukee -- 30,000 students but such late notice, the time and site only in the paper this morning (plus it is BELOW ZERO) that it brought out about 100.  Still, that's the first Clinton event on any of the many campuses here yet, and I haven't heard of any for Obama, either.  (Chelsea Clinton now goes on to Madison and a couple of others on the way.)

    There are other Clinton events this week elsewhere in Milwaukee -- organizational meeting for volunteers (at last!), etc.  And we need phone banking help, with so little time -- just as we here have been calling other states.  See the campaign site and give us a call to warm us up!

    Parent

    Yes hearing lots of calls coming (none / 0) (#47)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:10:33 PM EST
    only for money by the way not issues, Super Delegates cost big bucks folks

    Parent
    Pachyderms amongst us? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:23:06 PM EST
    Looking back to 2000 and 2004 presidential elections, I can remember how much vitriol was spewed against Dems by annoying, hateful Right wing supporters.

    Looking at both political parties now, it is easy to say which party has all the passion behind it. So, my question is "where did all these boisterous Repugs end up?" The answer: Progressive blogs.

    Repugs look at the state of the their party and know they are in trouble. So their best method of attack is to stir up animosity between Obama and Clinton supporters. I have this crazy hunch that many of the online Obama comment posters are actually Republicans just swatting the hornets nest. It makes total sense. Its their best way to move attention away from their tainted front-runners. And unfortunately, it seems to be working.

    Rove did it. (none / 0) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:25:57 PM EST
    Wow (none / 0) (#13)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:28:51 PM EST
    now that's slick. Blame it on the Republicans. LOL. Sorry Pal, we have plenty coming right out of Obama's mouth.

    Parent
    Chimster's first post. (none / 0) (#19)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:39:24 PM EST
    HE's the plant.

    Parent
    Hey now! (none / 0) (#32)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:47:17 PM EST
    Don't be like that. That was my first post. But why wouldn't the right mix things upa little? You won't hear me say too many glowing things about Obama other than he can do a great impersonation of MLK. But to perhaps back up my theory, here's a link to what the GOP is likely doing:

    http://seaton-newslinks.blogspot.com/2008/02/why-do-peggy-noonan-george-will-and.html

    Parent

    Republicans have a history (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by BernieO on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:00:34 PM EST
    of trying to influence who they run against. According to the book "The Hunting of the President" by Gene Lyons and Joe Conason Karl Rove's mentor Lee Atwater went so far as to surreptitiously support Clinton's opponent in his last run for governor because he recognized that Cinton was the only Dem with a good chance of defeating Papa Bush. Bill Kristol, who extols Obama, was the guy who talked the Republicans into opposing Hillary's health care plan, not on its merits, but because getting a bill passed would have strengthened Bill and the Dems chances in upcoming elections. Up until that point Republicans had acknowledged we had a big problem, but after Kristol told the leaders to stymie any reform Bob Dole came out and said there was no health care crisis and refused to even offer a Republican alternative.
    Clearly Republican leaders are willing to put politics over principle and the good of the American people. Why should they be any different now?

    Parent
    Thanks for the tip. (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:11:20 PM EST
    YEP (none / 0) (#60)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:51:11 PM EST
    None  of  us  has  forgotten  1972:  the  Rovian  'rat-f*ckers" (that's  what  they called  themselves doing  dirty tricks)    planted  false  info   about  Muskie   to  run  him   out  of  the  campaign.  

    They WANTED  to run against   McGovern  instead,   cuz  they  knew  he  was  beatable.  

    Reference  Pat  Buchanan  calling    Obama  the  "new  McGovern."

    Parent

    Btw, a new young pol coming up (none / 0) (#90)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:28:47 PM EST
    in his first run for office will have Senator McGovern speaking on his behalf tomorrow in my town -- where he comes often, because the candidate is his grandson.  Sam McGovern-Rowen is running for alderman in Milwaukee. . . .

    Parent
    If ya don't support Clinton.... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:40:57 PM EST
    you're either a Republcan operative or a mysoginist?  Is that what our discourse has come to?

    And no, I'm not supporting Obama or Johnny Mac either, I have this silly affection for my country that doesn't allow me to support any wanna-be tyrants.

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#41)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:52:27 PM EST
    I didn't say anything like that. Is this how you "jump in" new commentators? I'm not implying that all pro-obama or pro-hillary supporters are actually Republicans in disguise. I'm merely saying that they might be stirring things up on blogs a little.

    Parent
    kdog, stop hazing Chimster. ;-) (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:58:22 PM EST
    Didn't mean to pick on ya.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:21:59 PM EST
    and welcome to TL on behalf of us old-school commenters:)

    I must be getting a little snippy in response to the Hillary love-fest going down around here lately.  The Schuster/"Pimpin'" threads from late last week depressed the crap outta me...I was this close to getting offended:)

    As to your point, I don't think so, if I was a Republican I'd wanna run against Clinton over Obama.

    Parent

    Well.... (none / 0) (#63)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:53:07 PM EST
    You're  not  a  Republican.  

    But  Pat  Buchanan,  who  IS,   calls  Obama  the  "new  McGovern."  

    Look  that  reference  up  and  get back to us.

    Parent

    Damn right I'm not..... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:05:13 PM EST
    a Republican!  

    What if Pat Buchanan is pulling the double double cross on ya?...He's really afraid of Obama so he pushes Obama so Democrats switch to Clinton.  Or maybe it's the double double double cross.

    It gets confusing after awhile, so I ignore pundits and vote my conscience, which has led me to pledge to vote for whoever is on the ballot besides the 3 Stooges, Clinton/Obama/McCain.

    No offense to the 3 Stooges:)

    Parent

    Buchanan is to Repub (none / 0) (#130)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:19:58 PM EST
    as Dennis K is to Demo....

    He is much more a hard Right Libertarian than anything else...

    As for McGovern re Obama.. Obama can't even claim to be willing to fight for the country which McGovern was and did.

    Look it up and get back to me.

    Parent

    Buchanan's a r.w (none / 0) (#133)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:23:35 PM EST
    populist and isolationist and wouldnt pass the libertarian smell test in alot of areas.

    Parent
    Buchanan (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:22:24 PM EST
    Correct  about  Pat.

    But here's  the  thing:   right  after   Clinton's   New  Hampshire  win  on  MSNBC....when  all  the  "regulars"  were  whining   Bradley  Effect,   Pat  Buchanan is  the only  one  who  stood  up   for  Hillary  and   bashed  his  fellow  pundits  for  trying  to  "diminish  Hillary's  huge  victory."  (his  words)  

    He  doesn't  play mind  games.  He  calls em as  he  sees  em.  

    Parent

    Hey kdog (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:04:50 PM EST
    I thought everyone on this blog knew that was job, and now we have a newbie trying to take my claim to fame away!

    It just aint fair!

    BTW - I have a comment up on our hobby you may enjoy.

    Parent

    Thanks buddy..... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    I'll be sure to check it out.

    Parent
    Risible - and who cares, anyway? (none / 0) (#38)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:50:20 PM EST
    The thing with Rethugs is that no matter how much they try, they wind up showing themselves for what they are.  They just can't hide in the light shone by the liberal blogosphere.

    And, as to the "conflict" between HRC and Obama supporters - it does not inure to the detriment of the Democrats.  Rather, it can (and if the Dems are smart, will) be useful to them.

    First, by going all Lincoln-Douglas Debates all the way to the convention, the Dems will have the opportunity to work the general election voters via the mountains of free TV they will get.  The Dems can use every debate to be polite, collegial, dispute each other a bit, and then compare and contrast themselves to the 71 year old John McCain.

    Second, the media will not be able to resist the whole "horse race" thing.  Good.  The Dems should use it to the Dems best effect.  Continue to work on distinguishing the Democratic "brand" from the Bush-McCain brand.  Pound on the (accurate) idea that McCain is just Four More Years of Bushism.

    Third, the media will not be able to slide into an attack on the Dem nominee so long as the media can be taken under the lash of "access denied".  The way HRC and her campaign dealt on MSNBC over the Shuster issue exemplifies this.  The threat of cutting off access to the campaign got Shuster (effectively) fired, and put MSNBC back on its heels far enough that it came crawling.  This tactic only works when the Dem has something - access - to deny the media.  Once there is only one Democratic candidate, that candidate becomes a supplicant to the media for coverage and has to buy time.  While there is a horse-race, the media cannot avoid covering it and the candidates get coverage for free.  

    In the horse race, the Dems then get to beat on McCain without too much intervening editorial color diminishing their message and maximizing the Repugs'.  

    This flip of power relationships upon reduction to one Dem and one Repug candidate, BTW, also explains rationally why the media has worked so assiduously to winnow down the candidates.  First, they marginalized Edwards through no coverage.  Then, as Abrahms showed on his show last week, they went negative on HRC and positive on Obama by something like 3 to 1 or 5 to 1.  

    The media know how this works - and how they get to be in the driver's seat - and they craft their coverage to get down to the point of one Dem candidate, where they control who sets the story.  Right now - and as long as there are two viable Dem candidates - the media does not get to control the story. This, because their going negative on a candidate immediately raises suspicions of "they're favoring the other candidate" - threatening their precious image of "objectivity".

    So, IMHO, it's naive to think that the Dems (who are standing outside in record-turnout lines to caucus in Maine even after the blizzard starts), wanting nothing more than to get rid of Republicans, will allow any minor divisions between the candidated to get in the way of supporting the party nominee come the Convention.  Repugs are fond, when in their pushing-capitalism-and-no-regulation mode, of saying people are at their best and things work out for the best when people are allowed to act in their own enlightened self-interest.  

    Democrats are no different than anyone else in that regard.  

    I was an Edwards voter and still cast my promised vote for him even though he'd suspended his campaign prior to election day in my primary.  I will vote for the Dem candidate come November.  I recognize my own best interest is in getting rid of Republicans at all levels.   regardless of my opinion that Edwards would have been the better one.

    Parent

    i tried commenting on this the other day. (none / 0) (#46)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:08:30 PM EST
    i have looked at the history of some posters who seem to be quite combative. in several cases it was their first post. in one case this poster only showed up once every six months or so. i can't say that is the case here, but i saw the idea kicked around at other blogs about plants/sleepers who come out when needed.

    it sad to have to be so cynical!

    Parent

    This is a subject of it's owm (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:22:00 PM EST
    but the fact is I have wondered about what I call moles before.  I am a Republican albeit one who voted for Kerry in 2004 and will vote for the Democratic candidate in 2008.  I think that McCain and Huckabee might be even worse than Bush if that can be possible.  
    But the tone of some of the commentaries in the blogs that I would call progressive has become very right-wing, republican talking points like.  That's why I suspect that some people would love to see Democrats fight among each other and maybe stay home on the Election Day.  Personally when I read a comment that they would rather vote for McCain than vote for Hillary I don't think that is a Democrat and if that's an Independent I wonder why they would claim to want change.  Again my personal opinion.

    Parent
    If you are a Repub and vote for a Demo (none / 0) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:39:46 PM EST
    why don't you register Independent?? Or Demo??

    Claiming to be a Repub isn't believable.

    Parent

    besides with some of the comments I've read I don't see much difference.  I have been thinking of changing to Democrat since the  extreme religious right has gained so much power in the party.  I don't believe in these so called independents who then go and vote in party primaries.

    Parent
    Around here you can declare (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:06:01 PM EST
    at the time of the vote during the primaries and vote anyway you want in the GE's.

    Parent
    Which opens Party Nominations (none / 0) (#126)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:15:15 PM EST
    to all kinds of shenanigans.  When I first registered to vote in the late 60's I registered as not affiliated.  I lived in California and when It was time to vote and I would go for some proposition that I wanted to vote on if there was a primary they would offer me to chose if I wanted to participate.  I would answer no because I was not affiliated to any party at the time.  I think independents should wait until the general election to vote or go ahead and state their party affiliation when they register.  Again, my personal opinion.

    Parent
    But if your party doesn't have a candidate (none / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:13:29 PM EST
    for the GE then you have no vote if you can't vote in the primary....

    And being Independent doesn't mean that their isn't someone in the Primary that you support.

    Parent

    Again this is my Opinion (none / 0) (#153)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    but a real independent should have no desire to get involved in internal party primaries.  I keep thinking of the lady who in NH primaries in 2000 voted for McCain and this year voted for Obama.  Who is she voting for this year in the GE?  Does it make sense that she would have a say in the decisions of the Democratic parties nominee.  To me it does not.  

    Parent
    If works for you, fine (none / 0) (#179)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:51:16 PM EST
    But to me, being Independent is to be able to support candidates in both parties.

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#197)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 01:25:56 PM EST
    and if the radical Left hadnt taken over the demos in the sixties, (according to some delusionary types), either party might be a valid option.

    As it is though, the only option for all good social liberals is the party thats half theocratic and half militantly anti-regulatory.

    Liberalism and health care reform be damned.

    Parent

    jondee (none / 0) (#198)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:52:37 PM EST
    You wouldn't know a liberal if you saw one.

    And if you don't have a country, nothing else counts.

    And too bad the Demos can field a candidate that attracts us Independents.

    Parent

    Keep shilling for those (none / 0) (#199)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 12:23:22 PM EST
    radically illiberal jamokes and there wont be any country left worth saving.

    Btw, Why didnt lack of military service matter when Il Duece and Walking Death Thompson were still in the race?

    Parent

    How do you (none / 0) (#200)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 12:25:08 PM EST
    abbreviate Independent in name only?

    Parent
    Florida Resident (none / 0) (#157)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:26:10 PM EST
    I  read  that  the  Wisconsin   caucus  is  notorious  for   Republicans  registering  as  a  Dem   for  a  day, going  to  caucus  to  vote  against  Clinton,    with no intention  of  voting   Democrat  in November.  

    Same  thing  in  Louisiana.  

    It  IS  an issue.

    Parent

    Goes both ways though.... (none / 0) (#175)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:05:55 PM EST
    I was gonna register Republican to vote for Ron Paul...but my state doesn't allow it the day of the primary, and I didn't wanna blemish my good name by putting a crooked letter after it, even for one day.

    Parent
    Claiming (none / 0) (#107)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:51:22 PM EST
    to be Independent and parroting constantly and shilling for the wingnut fasction isnt terribly "believable" either.

    Not that anyone around here does that.

    Parent

    My point exactly (none / 0) (#116)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:00:19 PM EST
    Too many independents sound like hidden Republicans.  At least I'm open about what I'm registered as.  And I was brought up to vote candidacy not party line, but in this case for the last few years the candidates that the Republican party have nominate in my opinion do not represent what is good for America or the World.  If they did nominate someone like that I would vote for him/her they just have not.  Not that any politician is perfect is just that I am an American and then a Republican.

    Parent
    I've been meaning to tell (none / 0) (#123)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:06:36 PM EST
    you to quit that Jondee.

    Parent
    well i am a former repub and now registered (none / 0) (#147)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:10:19 PM EST
    independent. i agree the talking points are too much like the repubs. i left the party due to the hate coming out ala delay and the far right turn of the religeous right. i could never go back. i am a financial conservative and deeply resent what the bush2 has done to this country.

    we are glad to have those who want to be a part.

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:14:57 PM EST
    Do you think Obama or Billary will do better?

    I sure don't. McCain just might.

    Parent

    Please let's be serious (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:26:07 PM EST
    What has McCain brought to the table but Bush like rhetoric I hope your joking.

    Parent
    I never joke about (none / 0) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:54:24 PM EST
    life and death issues and the future of western civilization.

    McCain isn't perfect, but he will protect the country.

    Obama or Hillary will not.

    Parent

    How will he protect the Country (none / 0) (#186)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:15:51 PM EST
    by continuing to do what Bush is doing?

    Parent
    Then you don't believe (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 10:31:03 AM EST
    in any military option in foreign affairs.

    Parent
    McCain (none / 0) (#158)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:28:09 PM EST
    How  does  your   candidate  McCain propose  to  PAY  for   100 years in  Iraq?   Higher  taxes?  Higher   deficits?   Higher  interest  to be paid on   that  debt?

    Parent
    Unfortunately.... (none / 0) (#176)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:06:56 PM EST
    neither Clinton nor Obama will fully withdraw either.

    Parent
    How does your candidate (none / 0) (#182)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:55:31 PM EST
    Obama or Hillary intend to protect the country?

    Parent
    I thought he was a "RINO" (none / 0) (#162)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:31:56 PM EST
    etc etc?

    He just might since when?


    Parent

    You're ythinking?? (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:56:27 PM EST
    When did you start?

    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:37:41 PM EST
    I think some commenters here, myself included, post when we can find the time and sometimes it is months in between.  And we fight and kiss and make up.  Cept for PPJ and I, he is not into kissing.

    Parent
    IMHO, ppj has "issues" (none / 0) (#55)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:46:34 PM EST
    and works through them here.

    Which is preferable, I guess, to working them out in any other location where the means, methods and tools of working them out are not as ephemeral as electrons and bytes.

    Parent

    hehe (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:12:16 PM EST
    And yes, your IMHO in MO is indeed humble.

    And it has been a long time, almost five years...
    Not many of the old crew remain. I don't do much anymore because I'm really not interested in the theories of Demo politics, or Repub for that matter, and that has become the big thing since BTD showed up.

    Oh well, the election will be over and then we can get back to debating the life and death issues of the world...

    Parent

    Issues.... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:17:40 PM EST
    I sure miss discussing those....but these damn election seasons never end!

    So many new monikers....where's Fred Dawes?  I think I've taken up his mantle of resident tin-foil hat man....or does anyone else here think Alex Jones makes more sense than Clinton, Obama, and McCain put together?:)

    Parent

    True, dat. (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:25:18 PM EST
    theories of Demo politics, or Repub for that matter, and that has become the big thing since BTD showed up.


    Parent
    Concur (none / 0) (#95)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:37:06 PM EST
    Given that (none / 0) (#96)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:38:29 PM EST
    "...it has been a long time, almost five years..."

    does that mean you've worked out all that bile?  Or is it regenerative?

    Parent

    Bile?? (none / 0) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:54:06 PM EST
    Sir you mistake a sincere desire on my part to educate and convert those on the Left into becoming a Liberal.

    Parent
    First you'll (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:25:03 PM EST
    need to get a few million people (for starters) to accept your new, personal, definition of liberalism, eg: allowing gays and other minorities into the John Birch Society etc

    Interesting that those on the Right are apparently so "liberal" already that they dont need any converting.

    Parent

    Hehehe (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:47:19 PM EST
    I can't tell the difference between you.

    A nut is a nut is a nut.

    Parent

    Shhhhh (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:06:11 PM EST
    You promised not to tell.

    Parent
    Me and my big mouth.... (none / 0) (#70)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    Really?? (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:12:41 PM EST
    Ahhhh - I'm like the kid who can't resist (none / 0) (#93)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:32:22 PM EST
    poking a stick into the tiger cage and rattling the bars.

    Makes a boring day a lot more exciting to have the snarls start.

    Parent

    I know (none / 0) (#132)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:23:10 PM EST
    Sometimes you almost make sense.

    Parent
    don't kiss and tell (none / 0) (#74)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:13:11 PM EST
    I guess that depends on how you read that statement.  

    Don't kiss, and tell

    or Don't kiss and tell

    Parent

    hehe (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:16:44 PM EST
    Going back to LV this year??

    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:21:49 PM EST
    I found out i am really not that good.  I need to stick to the friendly games...

    Parent
    If you can't see the pigeon, look (none / 0) (#91)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:30:48 PM EST
    in the mirror.

    All it should have taken is one viewing of "Rounders" to get that straight.

    A college friend recently complained (sort of - he'd had a really good time and could afford to lose) about going to Vegas and being unable to keep his head in the game, seeing as how the casinos were using stripper types (dressed accordingly) to deal.  I won't repeat what I said to him, other than to note it included "Duh".

    Parent

    True, if you don't know (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:45:02 PM EST
    who the worst player at the table is...it is you.

    But in poker the house doesn't care who wins, they are making their money off the rake, and the side gambling - sports, slots, craps, blackjack - they pick up off the players and those with them. I haven't seen any stripper types dealing. Of course some of the ladies serving drinks are quite attractive.

    Parent

    Been to the Borgata in AC? (none / 0) (#108)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:53:04 PM EST
    No way their cocktail waitresses are native to the Atlantic City area....no freakin' way.  Rumor is Borgata flys them in.

    I played in a private tourney once with topless dealers....not as distracting as you would think...not after the first 5 minutes anyway.

    Parent

    Did you go all in on the first hand? (none / 0) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:57:03 PM EST
    And no. (none / 0) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:00:25 PM EST
    I haven't been to AC since 1982. I can fly to LA cheaper and almost as quick.

    I don't LV either anymore because of the ambiance, especially during the WSOP... make that lack of ambiance..

    Parent

    He was playing blackjack (none / 0) (#114)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:57:47 PM EST
    and couldn't remember the hit-stand-double down chart he'd said he'd memorized.

    Distracted by the scenery.

    Good thing he's got an amazingly good-humored, tolerant wife....

    Parent

    Do you remember the (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:03:15 PM EST
    scene in Chevy Chase's "Vegas Vaction" where he is playing blackjack??

    Parent
    no. (none / 0) (#128)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:18:29 PM EST
    Griswald is desperate (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:26:28 PM EST
    having maxed out his CC's... The dealer, after observing his bets for a few moments says:

    "Why don't you just give me all your money, then I'll take you out back, kick your as* and we can all go home happy."

    Watching the desire of some people to lose validates that statement.

    Parent

    Heh. (none / 0) (#137)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:29:31 PM EST
    Try the west coast card casinos (none / 0) (#102)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    Much nicer, better games, friendlier...

    Parent
    I still like best the friendly (none / 0) (#118)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:00:38 PM EST
    bunch of buddies in the living room (or basement), drinking a few beers, stepping out to check on the football game, and putting maybe $100 toward entertainment at cards.  

    Parent
    Those are nice (none / 0) (#121)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:04:10 PM EST
    as long as they are true "home games."

    Parent
    the ones I go to are, and (none / 0) (#129)
    by scribe on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:18:53 PM EST
    that's all that matters to me.

    Parent
    America's true past time..... (none / 0) (#131)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:21:05 PM EST
    and some people think it's criminal.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:15:47 PM EST
    You must have your picture in the dictionary next to "paranoia."


    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:45:18 PM EST
    How is mentioning a rather transparent and obviouss strategy on the part of the casinos to draw in more men and get them to blow their wads (pun intended), "paranoia", Uncle Troll?


    Parent
    Follow the bouncing ball, jondee (none / 0) (#104)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:49:12 PM EST
    and you will discover my comment is tied to

    tried commenting on this the other day. (none / 0) (#46)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:08:30 PM CST

    Which was about politics, not poker.

    Going to fast for you, again??

    Parent

    The only strategy they need.... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:59:52 PM EST
    to get me to risk my wad is to open the doors:)

    The day they start comping reefer like they comp cigarettes and booze is the day I might never leave.  Then again, if you roll high enough they probably will comp you reefer:)

    Parent

    California (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:08:49 PM EST
    prohibits comping booze, so I guess dope would be out of the question. But the Commerce has some world class grub and nice rooms.

    Parent
    Really.... (none / 0) (#134)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:23:58 PM EST
    no free drinks at the table?  Sounds like blasphemy:)

    Parent
    I never drink (none / 0) (#146)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:09:58 PM EST
    when I play... But I always urge others to do so.

    And yes. No free booze. State law.

    You can buy all you want. I've seen some Hollywood types buy some very nice bottles of wine..

    Parent

    Edwards and mandates (none / 0) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:26:01 PM EST
    I still don't get it why would Edwards support Obama when universal and mandates were a key element in his campaign? Also, he would be an idiot to endorse anyone. He gets to keep the high road and support the democratic ticket.

    But Obama is for universal health care! (none / 0) (#16)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:33:00 PM EST
    I heard him say so on CNN yesterday and now heard him say so in a tv ad a couple of minutes ago (with the primary here in little more than a week . . . no Clinton ads yet that I've seen. . . .).

    So he said it on CNN, so it must be true!  <snark>
    And I saw no one on CNN call him on it after they showed that speech, showed it for a looong stretch.

    Parent

    Right (none / 0) (#17)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:37:13 PM EST
    Like he "voted against the war" and does not take money from lobbyists.

    Parent
    Putting On Flame Retardant Suit (none / 0) (#58)
    by MO Blue on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:48:48 PM EST
    Edwards supporter before he dropped out but he like all the others is a pol. Just don't flame me too much on this, please.

    I think both Obama and Clinton would both be willing to offer him what he wants. If he wants a position in the next administration to be able to advance his agenda, his decision on an endorsement could come down to who he believes will win the nomination.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#62)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:52:56 PM EST
    if he really was Saint Edwards he wouldn't endorse either of them.

    Parent
    Congressional Elections (none / 0) (#20)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:39:24 PM EST
    I think we have to stop feeding the top of the ticket. Look, McCain and Huckabee did it with not a lot of money. Save your money for Congressional races. In the end, whoever gets in, we need a Democratic Congress.

    Save your money..... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:43:03 PM EST
    and trade it for gold because it won't be worth d*ck if we stay on the path the D's and R's have put us on.

    For god's sake don't give it to a snake-oil salesman.

    Parent

    Yes our local Candidate (none / 0) (#42)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:54:39 PM EST
    is way behind and this is an open seat we though we could win.  Too much money cant be helpful.

    Parent
    Here is a great article. (none / 0) (#28)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:43:45 PM EST
    Posted in a comment to an article at noquarterusa.net. link=

    How to link. (none / 0) (#30)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:45:40 PM EST
    To link, with apologies if it's too basic:

    -highlight the URL of the web-page that you want to link to.

    -copy the URL ("edit" then "copy").

    -come back to TL and write something in your "Comment:" box.

    -highlight the word(s) in that comment that you want to be the link.

    -click the "URL" button above the "Comment:" box, it's the button that has an icon that looks like links of a chain. That brings up a link box, and your cursor is automatically in it.

    -hold down the "Ctrl" button on your computer's keyboard and then type "v". That copies the url into the link box.

    -click "OK."

    -click the "Preview" button below the "Comments:" box.

    -if the preview looks good - ie., the word(s) you selected to be the link are a different color from the rest of the text - click the "Post" button below the "Comments:" box.

    Parent

    For some reason (none / 0) (#33)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:47:42 PM EST
    this isn't working on my PC. It is basic, but thats why I can't believe its not working. LOL

    Parent
    Maybe this will help (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:26:05 PM EST
    Can anyone tell me (none / 0) (#31)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:45:56 PM EST
    once you copy the url into the window that opens when you hit the 'link' button, what is missing to get link to show?

    Geez (none / 0) (#36)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:49:17 PM EST
    Manufacturing a Need that can not fulfill (none / 0) (#39)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 12:51:44 PM EST
    Exploiting DNC loopholes that disenfranchise Party voters in mass through Caucuses and supposed violations dose not translate to Base support nor votes that can win States for Dems in 08 for Obama in fact the opposite, it is just a Brilliant Campaign Axelrod Strategy that he also used successfully in Mass with Patrick's campaign.  

    Running a nasty campaign using surrogates like the social liberal media to carry the campaigns nasty water re the group grievance grudges and swiftbaot victimization script will get old and loose its luster by summer, and only delay vetting that should have taken place and no rally will be forthcoming from the marginalized disaffected Base will happen.  Recall MSNBC day after NH Dyson and JJR code carried onto Russerts sillballs Debate, hmmm

    Running a negative nasty campaign against the Party establishment as the old guard devise backroom insider hacks who never governed well anyway as a surrogate to define your opponent will impact the Party and downstream candidate in the GE even though it may appear to the uniformed that Obama is not wielding the club.

    Obama Calls starting (none / 0) (#44)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:00:17 PM EST
    .in Ohio had two friends call both Hillary supporters and Registered Dems both got a fundraising call for Obama on said sorry no for Hillary then the caller just reminder her that it was just important to elect a Dem.  Not hearing that Clintons campaign has called anyone.

    no one has said it, but maybe the reason (none / 0) (#49)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:11:29 PM EST
    why obama and edwards aren't meeting is because edwards has already made up his mind. perhaps he told obama the truth and said don't bother on a wasted trip.

    I can't see (none / 0) (#51)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:30:21 PM EST
    John Edwards not letting them both have their say.

    This is purely speculative on my part, but perhaps Obama's "busy schedule" - you know, the one that prevents him from being able to commit to debates and such--got in the way.

    It seemed odd to me that Clinton has met with Edwards a couple of times now, once in his home, and Obama was not immediately rushing to do the same.

    Maybe Obama thinks he doesn't need Edwards?  What do you folks think?

    Parent

    Kathy (none / 0) (#163)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:33:20 PM EST
    Of  interest--may mean nothing---but    Edwards  had  already met  with Clinton.   Canceled  Obama.

    I hear  Obama  has  crapped out on the  debates  tonight.    What's  that  about?

    Parent

    pride goeth before the fall. (none / 0) (#173)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:59:06 PM EST
    obama doesn't need edwards or debates. hmm, time will tell i guess.

    Parent
    You all should watch (none / 0) (#54)
    by magster on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:46:01 PM EST
    the McCain parody video posted on AmericaBlog and Kos done in the style of the Obama music video done by the Black-Eyed Peas lead singer.

    Hilarious.

    Value of Edwards endorsement? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Fultron on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:48:28 PM EST
    What is the value of an Edwards endorsement, other than 12 delegates? Are there many undecideds left amongst Edwards supporters? I would have figured they'd have split by now. What are/were Edwards' numbers in PA/OH/TX?

    For Obama, I think it would be a closer. Already he is going to sweep February, so for Edwards to pile-on, the media play of inevitability and momentum will be too much.

    For Clinton, it makes no sense for him to endorse her pre-Potomac or WI/HI because when she loses (sorry, she will), the media will say the endorsement was meaningless. The best case seems an endorsement coupled with a very strong debate showing may help her offset Obama's huge head of steam heading into TX/OH.

    And for Edwards, what does he gain in making an endorsement? It seems an endorsement for Obama puts him on the winning team, but for Clinton it is still a gamble. Could it be seen as a compromise of his convictions if he endorses Obama over Clinton, if you accept the conjecture that her policies are closer to his goals/principles?

    Thought I saw 26 JRE delegates (none / 0) (#94)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:35:28 PM EST
    and it could be so close, every dozen matters.

    Parent
    Texas analysis (none / 0) (#57)
    by Hypatias Father on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:48:39 PM EST
    I have been looking to this site for a good summary of Clinton's and Obama's chances in my home state.

    Let me know what you think of the analysis, if you've a mind to.

    I would be thrilled if it went that way. (none / 0) (#79)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:18:26 PM EST
    Because that would mean Obama won!


    Parent
    Don't celebrate too soon (none / 0) (#92)
    by Hypatias Father on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:31:58 PM EST
    The edge is narrow, about as narrow as Clinton's before Super Tuesday.  It will be interesting to see if anything changes once their campaigns catch fire here.  Remember, none of us here have had the opportunity to play a large role in the nomination process before.

    I think the Obama trend will continue in the cities, with maybe the exception of Houston area, which Clinton may hold.  But I suspect the winner will be the one who can pull in the rural votes here.

    Parent

    I know what you mean. (none / 0) (#99)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:43:11 PM EST
    I would hate to see the Obama crowd become complacent, allowing Clinton to mount a comeback.
    Obama understands that, too. That's why he ended his Tuesday speech with the directive, "Let's go to work!"

    Lots left to do, but we will get there.

    Yes we can!

    Parent

    Texas (none / 0) (#164)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:35:17 PM EST
    Won't  matter.   Texas  will go  red.    

    I'm in  Houston.....everyone, including  Hispanics,  are  saying   Obama  has  no  commander-in-chief  experience;   voting  McCain.  

    Obama  may win  Austin area,  but not the  state.

    Parent

    Obama has no experience. Period. (none / 0) (#184)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:58:09 PM EST
    Debate in Texas refused by Obama (?) (none / 0) (#109)
    by Hypatias Father on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:53:43 PM EST
    Can anyone verify a local rumor that a Clinton vs. Obama debate was in the works with Dallas' public broadcasting KERA-PBS, but that the Obama campaign has either not responded or has rescinded an initial acceptance?  

    Parent
    Wow! (none / 0) (#103)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    What a completely fair and unbalanced site!

    Not.

    Parent

    Never claimed the site opinions unbiased... (none / 0) (#112)
    by Hypatias Father on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:55:51 PM EST
    but their analysis of rural voting patterns in the past has been superb.  Check their track record for proof.  So, again, what did you think of the analysis of Texas?

    Parent
    I think that polls (none / 0) (#127)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:15:40 PM EST
    and analysis are more often wrong than right, and that it seems the closer we get to the actual election days, the more likely they are to swing--erroneously or not.

    I am a southerner (which is why I know Texas is not the south) but y'all do have manners over there and I think that Obama committing to debates then backing out, or refusing to debate at all, is going to be seen as arrogant and disrespectful.

    I don't know if it will have enough of an impact, but I think it will give some folks pause.  

    Parent

    Super Delegates (none / 0) (#59)
    by Salt on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:49:32 PM EST

    If I were a super delegate and I was being maligned by a Presidential candidate using the Press as an attack surrogates I would make sure that candidate lost.

     And if I were a member of the Sects within the base that were being extorted as clubs against downstream candidates and the Party I would make myself heard before the Party is so bloody that can not win elections in 08.  

    If I were a candidate or super delegate that is older than Obama at 47 and perceived as part of the surrogate bad Dem Establishment, never governed well old guard and not black I would request Howard Dean no longer head the DNC not sure I would ever help McCaskill Kerry or Kennedy in any reelection effort but instead help their younger sexier 42 long competition.

    If I were a Dem I would burn my DNC membership card in protest of the exploitation of DNC loopholes the 50 State Strategy by one candidate that has resulted in the disenfranchised of millions in the Dem Party Base in Caucus States not set up with primaries again elevating the unwinable States over the must have and want to have States like Fla Mich NV NM AZ OH a Dem Primary that is not reflective of competitiveness in the GE in fact almost not at all.

    And I would be generally alarmed that in 08 McCain would be President and a general of rout for the Party if Big State Primaries were not on the horizon in March.


    Superdelegates (none / 0) (#69)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:08:18 PM EST
    Not  to worry.  

    I hear  John  Kerry  and  Teddy Kennedy,  out of  respect  for  Obama's  new  rules  about  delegates  respecting  their  states,   are  going  to hold  a  press  conference  announcing    they're  voting  for   Hillary  Clinton,  since  she  won  Massachusetts.    

    <snark>

    Parent

    Just Visited Hillary's site and... (none / 0) (#64)
    by LadyDiofCT on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 01:57:50 PM EST
    "Tonight from 7-7:30 p.m. EST, Hillary will appear live on TV on ABC7 and News Channel 8 in the Washington, DC metropolitan area. Voters nationwide can see Hillary live on Politico.com. The appearance was initially intended to be a debate sponsored by The Politico and ABC7, but Sen. Obama refused to debate Hillary."

    So Sen. Obama afraid to debate Hillary the day before the vote?  Why I wonder.


    Obama wimped out (none / 0) (#71)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    OMG.    ABC  must   be  majorly  p*ssed.  

    That's incredible.   He  wimped out.

    Parent

    is that the same as voting present LOL (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:16:12 PM EST
    No, he backed out b/c he doesn't need it. (none / 0) (#80)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:20:26 PM EST
    She NEEDS the attention. He doesn't.

    Why play the game on her terms?

    Parent

    Has anyone heard this on msm (none / 0) (#87)
    by LadyDiofCT on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:26:15 PM EST
    or any other blogs?

    Parent
    Has anyone heard this on msm (none / 0) (#88)
    by LadyDiofCT on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:26:35 PM EST
    or any other blogs?

    Parent
    "Wimp"..... (none / 0) (#98)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:42:43 PM EST
    Is "wimp" considered sexist?

    Just checking if I should be offended or not...:)

    Seriously though, I agree, Obama needs to grow a pair.

    Parent

    Wimped (none / 0) (#165)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:37:42 PM EST
    Feel  free  to  be  offended.  

    I hear  Obama's  "pimping"   his  wife  on  Larry King  tonight.  

    Feel  better  now?

    Parent

    Takes more than words..... (none / 0) (#174)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:01:18 PM EST
    to offend me.  Our prospects for president?...now that's offensive.

    Parent
    Olberman did it first (none / 0) (#185)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:04:39 PM EST
    That, sir, is not only un-American, it is dictatorial. And in pimping General David Petraeus, sir, in violation of everything this country has been assiduously and vigilantly against for 220 years, you have tried to blur the gleaming radioactive demarcation between the military and the political, and to portray your party as the one associated with the military and your opponents as the ones somehow antithetical to it.

    Link

    That bother you?

    Parent

    meet the real Michelle Obama via WST (none / 0) (#85)
    by athyrio on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:25:32 PM EST
    On a conference call to prepare for a recent debate, Barack Obama brainstormed with his top advisers on the fine points of his positions. Michelle Obama had dialed in to listen, but finally couldn't stay silent any longer.

    "Barack," she interjected, "Feel -- don't think!" Telling her husband his "over-thinking" during past debates had tripped him up with rival Hillary Clinton, she said: "Don't get caught in the weeds. Be visceral. Use your heart -- and your head."

    The campaign veterans shut up. ... ..
    LINK WSJ

    I guess I'm the only one (none / 0) (#141)
    by IndependantThinker on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:41:43 PM EST
    who see this as incredibly elitist: And when she said last fall it was "now or never" for his presidential run because of the "inconvenience factor" of a campaign, some saw her remark as a threat that he wouldn't run again if he lost. "It wasn't a threat -- but to do this again? Put these two girls through this again?" Mrs. Obama says. "This is the only time Barack will be this close...to issues on the ground" from having spent more time as a community organizer and state representative than a Washington politician and still leading a normal life like taking out the garbage and paying off student loans. All of our elected officials are unqualified. And soon, BO and his family will just be too lofty, rich and powerful to be President and relate to us little people.

    Parent
    Michelle (none / 0) (#166)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:40:14 PM EST
    OMG.    She  sounds  as  controlling  as  Nancy Reagan  was.   Next  thing you know,  she'll  be  consulting   an   astrologist.   LOL

    Parent
    Michelle (none / 0) (#167)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:41:13 PM EST
    OMG.    She  sounds  as  controlling  as  Nancy Reagan  was.   Next  thing you know,  she'll  be  consulting   an   astrologist.   LOL

    Parent
    Michelle (none / 0) (#168)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:44:04 PM EST
    OMG.  Michelle  sounds   as  big  a  b*ll-buster  as  Nancy  Reagan   was.  Next  thing  you know,  she'll  be  consulting  astrologists.  LOL

    Parent
    Multiples (none / 0) (#169)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:44:51 PM EST
    Sorry  about that, folks.  My computer "burped."

    Parent
    Super delegates (none / 0) (#89)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 02:27:30 PM EST
    If I were a super delegate, I would enjoy the attention I received from an ex-president and his daughter calling to attempt wooing me into making their family a political dynasty.

    After the call, I would Google the '90s politics, watch all the video of finger-wagging, right-wing conspiracies, selling out on healthcare, embarrassing the presidency with young women, accusing former paramours of lying, getting caught lying, claiming to not inhale, declaring that is is an ambiguous word, a wife humiliated but faithful, and call them back and advise they recede into the background, working for their causes behind the scenes and around the world.


    And they wonder (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:48:30 PM EST
    why we think Republicans have infiltrated Democratic blogs.

    Parent
    No Country for Old Men (none / 0) (#125)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:10:16 PM EST
    Just the scene in which Josh Brolin is being chased by the drug dealers dog is worth the ticket price.

    When the Coen brothers get it right, they get it right better than any other American film makers, IMHO.

    An airtight, subtle, jolting, vortex of a movie.

    Anyone else here seen it?

    Parent

    Not yet.... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:29:02 PM EST
    heard it was real good...not surprising coming from the Coen's.

    Three words...The Big Lebowski.  

    Parent

    Jackie Treehorn (none / 0) (#140)
    by jondee on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:34:33 PM EST
    treats objects like women.

    Hillary should try that line. Her stock would go up with me. lol

    Nice marmot. lol

    Parent

    I want my lawyer man..... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:49:04 PM EST
    I want Bill Kuntsler...or Ron Kuby.

    Shes' not my special lady, she's my f*ckin' lady friend man.....I'm just helping her conceive.

    Good stuff.....

    Parent

    i just might go see it tonight! (none / 0) (#150)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:16:42 PM EST
    The scene... (none / 0) (#196)
    by desertswine on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 12:10:11 PM EST
    of the dog chasing Brolin across the river was amazing.

    If you're into Cormac McCarthy, who wrote "No Country," try reading "The Road" which is also being made into a movie, although not by the Coens.

    The audience actually broke out into applause when "No Country" ended.

    Parent

    And they wonder (none / 0) (#143)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:48:47 PM EST
    why we think Republicans have infiltrated Democratic blogs.

    Parent
    I am NOT a Republican (none / 0) (#145)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:57:16 PM EST
    And for you to insinuate that I am only shows the weakness of your argument for your candidate.

    I am a realistic Democrat who recognizes that things with the Clintons were not all peaches and cream, and I prefer the guy who makes people feel proud to be an American and makes us hope for a better day, rather than a candidate who tries to convince us that she and her husband and their divisive politics is really the way to go.

    Remember, the Clintons got lucky. The Internet emerged during their terms, and it was a great boon for our country. They benefited from that.

    They now want you to forget that in '94 they lost the Congress to Gingrich, and that he forced them into some corners, and they did eventually get some good work done, but it was by working with the GOP majority that their administration allowed to emerge.

    Now Obama says we should all work together, and it's just sanctimonious crap. The truth is the Clintons and their supporters are mad, and now they want to take it out on Obama.

    Sorry. We're going to beat you in the end, and that does not make us Republicans. It makes us responsible Democrats.

    Parent

    Honestly, (none / 0) (#159)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:29:28 PM EST
    to me you were talking from the right wing hate book.

    What benefit does it do to the Democratic Party to remind them of things like "I didn't inhale"?  So this was prior to Bush when it suddenly became okay to snort coke.  Clinton was doing his best to handle it well.  Didn't work out.

    As for other things like not keeping the clenis under control, Hillary doesn't have that anatomical part.  Why is she responsible for his faux pas?

    Maybe the "Clinton folks" are mad because they're sick of recitation of the Clinton hate book from people who should know better.  

    You would think a genius like Obama could win an election without destroying a Democratic presidency to do it.  People look back on the Cinton presidency mostly well.  Clinton almost always had and still has a high approval rating.  In all, his was a successful presidency.  Ripping his presidency to shreds to serve a short-term purpose is wrong.

    And why I'm not a Democrat anymore.

    Parent

    Agree (none / 0) (#170)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:46:59 PM EST
    And  if  he  were  actually  an Obama  superdelegate,  he  would urge  Kerry  and  Kennedy  to vote  with  their  state  and   support  Clinton,    as  King  Obama   said  they  should  do.

    Parent
    Well, Quenn Mother Hillary says they're (none / 0) (#189)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:23:43 PM EST
    independent, so why don't we let her have the final word?

    I just find it hilarious that the Clinton camp takes every opportunity to point out Obama's lack of experience, his unvettedness, his inexperience (which he actually has more years in elected office, btw), and his unpreparedness for the dirty GOP machine, but when you point out all the ways in which they will tear into Clinton, they get mad.

    Calling us a cult is fine, but if we point out the stains on Clinton, we're being unfair. THOSE are the Clinton Rules.

    Parent

    Don't you think it's wise to acknowledge (none / 0) (#187)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:19:11 PM EST
    the existence of the Clinton hate book instead of pretending that she can just waltz into the GE and not face an excruciating amount of dirt from her husband, which, fair or not, will be used by the GOP?

    Parent
    Or maybe Obama plants? (none / 0) (#188)
    by SandyK on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:21:57 PM EST
    Plants? Are you saying I work for him? (none / 0) (#193)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:29:26 PM EST
    Because I do not, though I would be honored to.

    Oh, and I see you all still cannot address the issue I raised. What's wrong, Queen Mum Hillary not given you any defense other than accusing us of being Repugs?

    Parent

    And, you'd think Clinton, who came into this thing (none / 0) (#190)
    by halstoon on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:26:32 PM EST
    as the prohibitive favorite, could win without claiming that Obama lacks substance, is hoodwinking people, and is only followed by a cultist group of koolaid drinkers.

    But she can't. She can't even beat him by doing those things. And her supporters are furious about it.

    Parent

    Good time to buy Clinton (none / 0) (#119)
    by cannondaddy on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:01:00 PM EST
    Hasn't she been bought already?...n/t (none / 0) (#138)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:29:36 PM EST
    Bought (none / 0) (#171)
    by auntmo on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:48:18 PM EST
    Nope.  That's  Obama.  He  is now  officialy   Teddy  Kennedy's  protege.  

    And  that  oughta  go over  REAL  well with  Reagan  Democrats.  

    Parent

    The only Reagan Democrat I ever met (none / 0) (#172)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:57:09 PM EST
    Was Reagan. :-)

    Parent
    Let's try to stay objective.... (none / 0) (#177)
    by kdog on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:18:19 PM EST
    prefer one crook over the other, but realize they're all bought and paid for.

    Clinton

    Obama

    McCain

    Parent

    They should all have to (none / 0) (#201)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 13, 2008 at 12:32:26 PM EST
    wear NASCAR coveralls with a patch for each sponsor for any public appearences.

    Parent
    Doesn't even go well for Buchanan conservatives! (none / 0) (#192)
    by SandyK on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:27:21 PM EST
    That says enough.

    When the American Conservative mag was advocating a vote for Kerry in 2004, folks should've seen this happening in 2008.

    BTW, the Reagan Democrats are known as Neo-Cons.

    The only ones who were sane in the whole 2001- now mess are the traditionals (who ironically are far-far-far Right). They're the ones that are revolting against McCain.

    Weird, but true.

    Parent

    New thread (none / 0) (#139)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 03:31:40 PM EST
    Ask yourself:
                               why not socialized medicine?
                                Why do we have to include Insurance Companies?
                                Is it blasphemy to even mention it?

    you don't sound like a repub to me! smile! (none / 0) (#151)
    by hellothere on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:17:52 PM EST
    No it's not. (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:20:22 PM EST
    But politics is the art of the possible.

    Parent
    I know and agree (none / 0) (#160)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:31:08 PM EST
    but it wouldn't hurt to discuss it maybe not in this forum or during this election..  But over 40 years of public health work both federal and local and in the military it have made me  become cynical of all these health reforms.

    Parent
    should say Has (none / 0) (#161)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 04:31:51 PM EST
    I've been hucking NHC (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:45:28 PM EST
    for years.

    Problem is, the Demos always want to make it means tested and/or pay for it through a payroll tax and/or FIT increases.

    The middle class always figures out that means they will be paying for another entitlement program for the various groups that don't work. They also know that includes intercultural sojouners aka illegal aliens, dope dealers and all the others who exist in the gray market world. To the extent that is not true makes no difference. It is true enough to effectively summon enough opposition to slow it down.

    At the same time we get the anecdotal horrible experiences of Canada, England, etc. to finish it off.

    The only way you can ever get past that is to pay for it by a national sales tax, percentage adjusted to cover those items used more by the "poor" and "rich" to help make it "fair."

    Once you establish that payment is "fair" you can then get to administration, etc.

    Parent

    Does anyone else see (none / 0) (#180)
    by PlayInPeoria on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 05:52:27 PM EST
    the one sided bias in this statement by the AP?

    Sen. Barack Obama said Monday he is the candidate who can lead the country out of a long period of divisive and ineffective government, a theme he increasingly uses against Democratic rival Hillary Rodham Clinton, who was first lady for eight years.

    First that give Obama the "Sen" status... then they let everyone know that Hillary Clinton spent 8 years as 1st lady. Did I miss her time as a Senator for NY?

    They didn't even give her the respect of being a "Sen".  Wow, pretty bad.

    Just once (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 11, 2008 at 06:26:59 PM EST
    I would like some reporter to ask:

    "Tell us, Senator. How are you going to do that?"

    Parent