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By Big Tent Democrat

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    I scanned through the hundreds (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:50:33 AM EST
    of comments on the two previous threads, and, surprisingly, found little discussion re. John Lewis and what he actually said - as opposed to a few lines of interpretation by the NYT writers, and a seeming reflex by many commenters to frame this in such a way as to make it evidence for their dream argument, about Obama playing the race card.

    At least, at long last, we have news that Lewis and Obama haven't even spoken recently.

    But more to the point - what Lewis said rather clearly is that he does not want to go agaisnt the overwhelming wishes of his district. And that, within the context of him being a superdelegate and a highly likely situation whereby Obama is going to have the lead in pledged delegates - i.e. he does not want, as a superdelegate, to be responsible for taking the nomination away from the candidate who won it through the actual voting.

    "he planned to cast his vote as a superdelegate for Senator Barack Obama in hopes of preventing a fight at the Democratic convention."

    "he could "never, ever do anything to reverse the action" of the voters of his district, who overwhelmingly supported Mr. Obama."

    I dont see anything wrong with that.

    Do you see anything untoward about this? (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:56:34 AM EST
    So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.
     [Jesse Jackson, Jr.]

    Parent
    could be interpreted in a nasty way, (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:53:57 AM EST
    or could be seen as merely an obvious statement of fact.

    In the context, he was speaking of a hypothetical black congressman whose district went maybe 80% for Obama, but the congressman / superdel is backing Clinton, in a closely divided convention where he basically is the one, or one of a few who overturn the pledged delegate contest and take the nomination from Obama to give to Clinton.

    Seems entirely reasonable that there would be a lot of anger in the community and probably a challange.

    Now, I am sure that quite a few Clinton supporters very much want to see this as a threat - it certainly fits the need they seem to have to be hating on Obama in any way they can. But it can also be seen as simply a statment of reality.

    I guess it comes down to whether or not you think that Jackson wields some powerful polticial machine that is capable of recruiting and funding challangers in diverse districts across the country.

    Parent

    frankly i am sooooooo tired of (3.00 / 2) (#118)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:24:45 AM EST
    well obama meant this and that could really have that meaning. bull! most people interested in this race have minds that can think. having jackson jr trying to strongarm af politicans is just that! and how sharpton is trying to threaten the dnc by marching on them if delegates from florida and michigan are seated. i think we can see where this is going. and this straight to defeat in november thanks to tactics like this.

    Parent
    Uncivil comment alert!!! (none / 0) (#138)
    by Alien Abductee on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:49:57 PM EST
    Tsk.

    Parent
    no, it isn't. let me tell you what is rude and (none / 0) (#150)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:23:44 PM EST
    not civil. that is obama's supporters doing what they are doing. go read up about sharpton. and jackson jr has a galloping case of no common sense.

    Parent
    sorry, but I find your complaints hollow (none / 0) (#141)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:00:45 PM EST
    the dynamic, certainly on this website, is pretty clear. Passionate Clinton supporters spend most of their waking hours trying to impart the most cynical spin onto everything that Obama, or his supporters say or do. When others argue with that interpretation, then the Clinton people mock the very idea of actually looking at things in context, or say they are sooooo tired of having to "figure out" what Obama really meant.

    Its an utterly phony "figuring out". What they are really tired of is having rational people question their virulently anti-Obama spin.

    As for Sharpton, personally I cant stand the guy, but, as a Michigan voter, I am with him on this. Clinton and her party supporters were fully on board with imposing sanctions on MI and FL. She left her name on my ballot while publicly declaring that the vote would not count. For her to now claim that she should get those delegates is beneath contempt.

    Parent

    geez! you don't see anything wrong with (none / 0) (#151)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:25:32 PM EST
    sharpton's actions probably costing the democratic party the presidential election? i rest my case!

    Parent
    The focus was on the JJ Jr. comment (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:59:06 AM EST
    He said Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois had recently asked him "if it comes down to the last day and you're the only superdelegate? ... Do you want to go down in history as the one to prevent a black from winning the White House? "I told him I'd think about it," Cleaver concluded. Jackson, an Obama supporter, confirmed the conversation, and said the dilemma may pose a career risk for some black politicians. "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.
    link

    Parent
    No one is surprised (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by auntmo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:05:37 AM EST
    that  Tano   sees  nothing  wrong  with it.  

    So  what  else is new?

    Parent

    I know. (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:12:57 AM EST
    What fools we are.

    Parent
    So When Are Kerry And Kennedy Going To (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:23:07 AM EST
    announce that they are going to switch their support to Clinton? After all by the same logic, they should never, ever do anything to reverse the action of the voters in their state who overwhelmingly supported Senator Clinton.

    Parent
    Rules and fairness? (none / 0) (#52)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:25:57 AM EST
    Well now they have a new standard.

    Parent
    Each superdelegate (none / 0) (#96)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:47:00 AM EST
    has his or her own standard. That's the rules with the superdelegates. That's why Clinton had superdelegates from states BEFORE they held primaries.

    That's why presuming how superdelegates will vote is not particularly accurate or valuable. At the bottom these are all politicians, after all.

    If Clinton holds an insurmountable lead as we near the convention I would suspect a lot of superdelegates will flow to her camp. Or vice versa.

    Parent

    Clearly, what is needed in Congress (none / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:43:09 AM EST
    is an Irish Caucus to do some, um, carpet-changing.

    Parent
    Kerry and Kennedy (none / 0) (#105)
    by PennProgressive on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:16:14 AM EST
    along with Gov. Napolitano will soon swtch support to HRC. I am just waiting for that. I understand that the campaigns will try to get as many SDs as they can but the action of JJ Jr. is really disgusting. And I always liked him! Is there any difference between JJ Jr. and Tom Delay? As a democrat it is really sad to see that the primary is turning out to be a black and white (and others) race. We should be above this.

    Parent
    Mitchell on MSNBC (none / 0) (#77)
    by OldCoastie on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:54:21 AM EST
    said that she contacted the office and Lewis denied he had switched his support.

    Parent
    This is Andrea Mitchell? (none / 0) (#97)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:47:56 AM EST
    As far as I can throw her.

    Parent
    Rep. Corinne Brown (FL) coming for Clinton (none / 0) (#127)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:55:28 AM EST
    to Wisconsin today -- for those around Milwaukee, suggested were stops at Mr. Perkins (not the chain; the local great restaurant where the AA leaders meet and greet) and the most popular fish fry in town, at Lakefront Brewery.  (But maybe the traditional stop at Serb Hall, too.:-)  Mmmm, a Milwaukee fish fry. . . .

    Parent
    The ruthless power of (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ding7777 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:59:16 AM EST
    Tom Delay and Jesse Jackson Jr.

    From a Mother Jones article.

    MJ.com: What else sets [Tom Delay] apart?

    LD: Hardness. He's not afraid to use his power and he uses it ruthlessly. If a member of his own House caucus disagrees with him and won't vote the way he wants them to vote, he'll go out and find a primary opponent to run against them, and he'll tell them -- or he'll let it be known -- that he's going to "primary" them. He has threatened to take people's chairs away from them. He uses power to the point of abusing it.



    This is what I thought. (none / 0) (#92)
    by BeBe on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:32:32 AM EST
    It is a Delay tactic. Use the fundraising machine to control congress was Delay's specialty. It is what brought him down also.

    I have read these very interesting threads and I am not sure what to think. But I have not seen any reference to Texas as the ultimate southern state. It is a mixture of the south and the west. This may have something to do with Texas as Sheilah Jackson Lee is a Clinton supporter. Houston is the big prize in Texas.

    Parent

    I want to thank BTD for his firmness (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by katiebird on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:53:47 AM EST
    I want to thank Jeralyn & BTD for their firmness and consistency in deleting inappropriate comments.

    I've seen some terrible comments at blogs that aren't so closely monitored:  Ezra Klein has had a death-threat on one of his comment threads since 2:12 yesterday (see Changing the Rules at 2:12pm) that makes me sick.

    I know it must be exhausting -- but here's one reader who really appreciates the effort.

    Thank You.

    so i read sharpton is going to march (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:20:33 AM EST
    on the dnc if the florida and michigan delegates are seated! ok i have had it! i will not vote for obama. i was on the fence if he was nominated. i will not vote for anyone who is destroying the democratic party in their desire to grab the nomination.

    does anyone really think that having african american politicans trying to use tactics like this will win the general election? NO it won't. and furthermore it will destroy the chances of another african american to run for president for a whole generation sorry to say.

    Let's put it this way (none / 0) (#154)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:57:52 PM EST
    Al protests, the protest vote goes home, too.

    He divides folks on race (just like Jesse) so much, he repeals the voters Obama so much needs to win.

    Parent

    Thanks! (4.00 / 4) (#7)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:04:27 AM EST
    How can JJ get away with this--could you imagine if something like this came from the HRC camp?  The double standard is doing this country a dis-service.  

    Now I wonder if/what Charlie Rangel will have to say about this...

    I'm waiting for Jesse Jackson, Sr. (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:10:25 AM EST
    to comment on his son's admission.  

    Parent
    he won't! (none / 0) (#152)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:26:59 PM EST
    What could she say that would have (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:11:34 AM EST
    the same effect though.  Don't know of any gerrymandered Congressional districts composed of all females.

    Parent
    Well, I guess I could stop (none / 0) (#19)
    by oldpro on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:17:58 AM EST
    supporting Governor Gregoire for endorsing Obama.

    That'll show 'em.

    Jesuschristalmightyonacrutch

    I am depressed but not yet suicidal.

    Homicidal, maybe...

    Parent

    Ok... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:22:36 AM EST
    We cannot lose core members. Step back...and think of Chet Baker singing My Funny Valentine, now that will make anyone happy. Looking for a link, but it's gone.

    Parent
    Intevention? (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:03:36 AM EST
    I'll settle for Sinatra... (none / 0) (#48)
    by oldpro on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:21:09 AM EST
    or Mel Torme...

    Parent
    Too late. we're coming for you. (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:22:41 AM EST
    Bring bourbon and chocolate. (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by oldpro on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:52:55 AM EST
    In that order? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:32:30 AM EST
    I didn't get my chocolate yet, anyway.  I never get my box of chocolate from my sweet spouse until the day after Valentine's Day, because (a) he is cheap, and it is half-price then, and (b) he gets to say he is a feminist, too, because the day after Valentine's Day is Susan B. Anthony's Birthday.

    SBA's Day was celebrated by women across the country for many decades over two centuries -- and some still do so today.  I'm heading out this weekend to a gathering in Wisconsin of women who celebrate SBA's Day annually, for almost two decades now, with a fundraiser for continued historical preservation of the inspiring Susan B. Anthony home in Rochester . . . where she wrote part of our Constitution, the 19th Amendment.

    So Happy Susan B. Anthony's Birthday!  Have some chocolate -- and wash it down with the rest of that bourbon.  And remember:  "Failure Is Impossible."

    Parent

    I'm celebrating today (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by kenoshaMarge on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:34:01 AM EST
    Because today, the 15th is my birthday as well. And because it is my birthday I am giving myself the present of going to the Municipal Building, getting an absentee ballot and voting for Hillary Clinton. I am able to do this today because it has actually not snowed any in the last 24 hours. I'm not taking any chances on next Tuesday!

    I am also getting an absentee ballot because they have moved my polling place and guess what? The bus doesn't go there. If that democracy in action or what?

    They had all ready moved the Motor Vehicle Department out beyond the end of the bus line so that if you wanted to get a picture I.D. you either have to get a ride from someone or walk a mile from the end of the bus line. Now you have to walk about six blocks to vote. Nice huh?

    Parent

    Happy B'day, KenoshaMarge and SBA! (none / 0) (#128)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:00:06 PM EST
    That is so cool.  Tomorrow is my late mom's b-day, and in her memory and honor, I hope to be part of the motorcade being organized now to bring HRC from Milwaukee's airport to the downtown big Dem dinner.  (But anyone with snowplows on their vehicles would be really welcome to help! call Milwaukee HQ for HRC.)  And/or gather with the HRC backers at 4 to greet her outside the gathering.

    And KMarge, see other info on this thread for you -- the big event in Milwaukee on Monday, a Racine event on Tuesday, etc.

    Parent

    Well then... (none / 0) (#78)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:13:35 AM EST
    ...that just gives him the opportunity to buy you twice the chocolate, right?  That's my mehtod of doing things...although I do usually get some chocolate for the day, I got out the day after and buy a ton more.  I never get complaints (though the ones that I do are "You bought too much chocolate!")

    Parent
    Have a lovely (none / 0) (#123)
    by oldpro on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:13:39 AM EST
    SBAB....in WISCONSIN!

    Hope you've got Hillary signs in the car windows and on the bumper!  Might as well do a little campaigning while you're in the state!

    Parent

    Great combo (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:39:06 AM EST
    Bitter old days with chocolate and bourbon. Hah!!

    Parent
    How about (none / 0) (#122)
    by echinopsia on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:08:44 AM EST
    all whites?

    This is a racial issue. There's no need to cater to the double standard by bringing gender into it.

    Parent

    Bears reposting!! (3.00 / 2) (#9)
    by jen on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:06:16 AM EST
     From last thread:

    You need to

    by echinopsia on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:36:59 PM EST

    Read this




    Fans vs. allies (1.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:15:50 AM EST
    What Obama does not understand is that Hillary has allies, he has fans. Superdelegates are made up of allies and now the only way to get them is blackmail. You don't get allies that way, you get captives that will turn on you. Now I want to see how this will play when he tries to pass legislation. No respect.

    I don't think Obama will have the opportunity (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:22:36 AM EST
    to pass any legislation, except as the Jr. Senator from IL.

    Parent
    Maybe her "allies" were the captives... (none / 0) (#87)
    by cannondaddy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:57:15 AM EST
    I hear some of her popularity in the party is based on fear not love in some instances...

    Parent
    So Jesse Jackson Thinks Fear Is A Great Motivator (none / 0) (#89)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:06:12 AM EST
    Support Obama or we will run primary challenges against you.

    Talk about captive allies.

    Parent

    Uncivil comment alert!!! (none / 0) (#137)
    by Alien Abductee on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:49:30 PM EST
    Jeralyn, BTD...I guess you miss a few...like this one... :)

    Parent
    Clinton's ugly path to victory (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Aaron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:37:58 AM EST
    Hillary's Unappealing Path

    ["Though it is increasingly unlikely, Clinton may still have a path to the nomination -- and what a path it is. She merely has to puncture the balloon of Democratic idealism; sully the character of a good man; feed racial tensions within her party; then eke out a win with the support of unelected superdelegates, thwarting the hopes of millions of new voters who would see an inspiring young man defeated by backroom arm-twisting and arcane party rules.

    Unlikely -- but it would be a fitting contribution to the Clinton legacy of monumental selfishness."]




    25 year-old daughter (none / 0) (#112)
    by katiebird on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:44:52 AM EST
    thwarting the hopes of millions of new voters who would see an inspiring young man defeated

    Maybe she's "supporting the hopes" of millions of Young Women?  

    Back when I was supporting Edwards, my 25 year-old daughter and I had a conversation:

    She said: "I'm not supporting Edwards"
    Me: "Who are you supporting?"
    She: "Clinton"
    Me: "Really?  Why?"
    She (looking at me like I was an absolute idiot):"Because she's a woman"

    There, you have it:  Youth & Identity Politics -- For Hillary.

    Parent

    My daughter (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:28:19 AM EST
    ditto...same thing happened with me.  My 23 year old did her research on Clinton and convinced me with awesome material that she found.  What is strange is how she finds her age cohort totally blinded by the "light".  

    Parent
    Exactly -- her friends are all for Obama too....nt (none / 0) (#121)
    by katiebird on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:47:55 AM EST
    My daughter, 26, was for Clinton (none / 0) (#130)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:05:46 PM EST
    even before she announced.  That's what comes from taking her to meet Hillary a dozen years ago here, taking her to meet Gloria Steinem even earlier, etc.

    But more recently, my daughter has researched the candidates, with friends and family talking to her about Obama, and she talked with many of us as well to make up her own mind for this campaign . . . and she's still voting for Clinton.

    That's my girl. :-)  Btw, health care coverage is a crucial issue for her, and her experience in the job market these days has educated us as well.  It's not just something that matters to us oldsters; there are many younger voters with medical concerns.

    Parent

    can someone tell me (none / 0) (#1)
    by NJDem on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:53:14 PM EST
    where the story where Cleavers talks about the threats came from?  I couldn't find a Link?  Thanks!

    This whole thing is getting ridiculous...  

    End of the article (none / 0) (#2)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:54:30 PM EST
    Not a threat, an observation (none / 0) (#3)
    by Rojas on Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 11:58:16 PM EST
    Not a threat? (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:01:39 AM EST
    So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position" in the future, he added.


    Parent
    the carpet seems pretty obviously (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:59:52 AM EST
    to refer to the lack of popular support that you would have, after having done the deed..

    Parent
    Chicago (none / 0) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:03:18 AM EST
    The carpet changing company arrives at your door.

    Parent
    Now that's a threat. (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:09:15 AM EST
    You have been watching the Sopranos.

    Parent
    Old political motto (none / 0) (#14)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:11:27 AM EST
    Whatever you say, say it behind the doors and deny it. Now this JJ Jr. here, needs to learn how to use power. I watched the Katrina/Hillary not crying video and man, how did he get away with that?

    Parent
    easy! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ghost2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:31:46 AM EST
    IOKIYAO

    or any of his surrogates.

    Parent

    That carpet is voters (none / 0) (#16)
    by Rojas on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:14:18 AM EST
    And voting against them is not the best way to retain thier support.

    Parent
    You are kidding? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:17:19 AM EST
    Gyrate, twist and shout, sanitize and reword....amazing. Lakoff has really messed with people's brains with all that framing gibberish. Sometimes a threat is a threat.

    Parent
    especially when you NEED it to be (none / 0) (#72)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:00:59 AM EST
    A threat is a threat when (none / 0) (#83)
    by Rojas on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:28:01 AM EST
    some method or memechinism is availible to enforce it.

    Pointing out that the voters may remember it if you vote against their positions is an observation. It happens from time to time in a democracy.

    Parent

    "What Jesse Jackson, Jr. Meant" (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:21:40 AM EST
    We will change your carpets (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:23:38 AM EST
    yeah...that's right...change.

    Parent
    Yes We Can (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:24:34 AM EST
    We are the carpet changers you were waiting for (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:40:21 AM EST
    2 Guys Move U (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:53:59 AM EST
    Obama quote (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by auntmo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:01:13 AM EST
    "I know  how  to win  elections."

    Yes  he  can.

    Parent

    and when obama loses the ge, (none / 0) (#54)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:23:04 AM EST
    he can change it to i know how to lose elections.

    Parent
    I am so, so tired (none / 0) (#79)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:16:39 AM EST

    physically that I read that as "how to lose erections"

    I really, really need some sleep.

    Parent

    get some sleep and take care! (none / 0) (#114)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:53:01 AM EST
    What Jesse Jackson, Jr. Said" (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Rojas on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:38:02 AM EST
    "Many of these guys have offered their support to Mrs. Clinton, but Obama has won their districts. So you wake up without the carpet under your feet. You might find some young primary challenger placing you in a difficult position"


    Parent
    Ironic: if we take the words at face value there (none / 0) (#31)
    by jerry on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:33:25 AM EST
    is no threat whatsoever.

    It's very similar to Hillary stating that it's not her job to decide on Schuster's fate.

    Both were applying pressure, but it's okay for us to note one and condemn it, and not okay for us to note the other.

    Hee hee.

    Parent

    Oh, please. Let's not deconstruct (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:37:01 AM EST
    that forever.  Of course, I'm sure you did read the entire written communication from HRC to MSNBC?  

    Parent
    How could we not? (none / 0) (#98)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:51:51 AM EST
    Ironic that "sleep with the fishes" (none / 0) (#58)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:34:54 AM EST
    also sounds like a sweet lullaby, a verse from "Wynken, Blynken, and Nod" maybe?  

    Parent
    Looks and walks like a threat (none / 0) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:01:40 AM EST
    Looks and walks like (none / 0) (#10)
    by Rojas on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:06:19 AM EST
    he stated the obvious.

    Parent
    Looks and walks like (none / 0) (#41)
    by auntmo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:01:56 AM EST
    EXTORTION

    Parent
    Yes obvious (none / 0) (#46)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:10:01 AM EST
    Obvious: threat.

    Parent
    Reality check (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Rojas on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:18:35 AM EST
    By what mechinism are they supposed to carry out this threat?

    Parent
    Is this a threat too? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by CodeNameLoonie on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:34:08 AM EST
     "For individuals who endorsed Senator Clinton, [the risk was always that] Obama would prove to be enormously popular in the black community; he'd win the lion's share of your district," says Alabama Representative Artur Davis, who endorsed Obama last February. "You'd find yourself at odds with your constituents, and an opponent could use that against you."

    Or how about this?

    "I do have a network of people that are not limited to my district that I communicate with all the time," says South Carolina's Jim Clyburn, the House's third-ranking Democrat...once the [South Carolina} votes were counted, he immediately turned his attention to his new pro-Obama constituency. "Sunday afternoon, I went into the Democratic Party headquarters," he says. "They showed me how many people voted in the sixth congressional district. I got a printout. Every one of those people will hear from me in one way or another between now and the election."

    Reported by Noam Scheiber, The New Republic

    Parent

    MLK must be spinning in his grave about now (none / 0) (#8)
    by athyrio on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:04:35 AM EST
    and it will be interesting to monitor the media for how they spin this in a positive manner for him....

    Did you intend to use spin twice?? (none / 0) (#26)
    by ghost2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:29:06 AM EST
    My head hurts.

    Parent
    Update on Lewis (none / 0) (#13)
    by Grey on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:10:53 AM EST
    I posted this in the other thread right before it was closed, so I thought I'd repost it here.

    The Post quotes Lewis spokesperson saying Times story is "inaccurate."

    But the Clinton campaign reported having no word from Lewis on the subject, and a spokeswoman for Lewis, Brenda Jones, said the Times story and a similar one by the Associated Press, saying he was contemplating such a switch, were inaccurate. Both the Times and AP stories quoted Lewis directly after speaking with him; he was not available for comment later Thursday. The Obama campaign also said that Lewis and Obama had not talked recently about a change of heart.


    More Spin About Why He May Change Support (none / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:32:09 AM EST
    From the same post article:

    "It is plain there is a lot of enthusiasm for Barack Obama," Jones said. But, she said, "those things are observations," not statements of preference. She said Lewis has left the option of changing his superdelegate support for Clinton on the table, but made no decisions.  Still, it is clear that Lewis has had misgivings about the Clinton campaign in recent weeks, especially after the racially charged campaign in South Carolina, during which former Pres. Bill Clinton was perceived to have made racially insensitive comments.

    Now they are saying his change of heart is because of Bill's racially insensitive comments.

    Parent

    Yet he was in the front row of the debate in (none / 0) (#33)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:39:16 AM EST
    SC cheering her on.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by auntmo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:03:49 AM EST
    And,  in fact,  issued  a  statement  saying  he thought  the  accusation of  racism against  the Clintons  was  false,  and  that    the  Obama  campaign   had  tried  to   plant  that  idea  in  the media.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#35)
    by chemoelectric on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:41:34 AM EST
    Bill didn't just say racially insensitive things, but also stole his post-presidency from the party, by becoming far too polar in his support for his wife's candidacy. He had a responsibility to be a moderating and uniting influence, even while supporting his wife's run for president.

    I did not support Hillary Clinton anyway, but I've just the other day taken down the pictures of Bill Clinton that have decorated our refrigerator for years and years, and I have begun to feel what maybe the Clinton-haters feel.

    Parent

    that is silly! obama has cast himself (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:28:15 AM EST
    as the  black candidate from the gitgo. and he was the one who introduced the race card. clinton did not make race baiting comments. i am sick of hearing that media spin.

    i thought from the beginning that this implosion might occur. i thought unfortunately that a obama supporter would become full of themselves with the media spin and overstep to the point that not even the media can ignore it. obama has gone along to get along so he thinks in his campaign. that is how i see it.

    Parent

    Oh wah wah wah (none / 0) (#45)
    by auntmo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:08:03 AM EST
    do y'all realize that Lewis (none / 0) (#73)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:05:11 AM EST
    started out as an Obama supporter, about a year ago, and apparantly was talked into supporting Hillary, by bill.

    FWIW

    Parent

    "They" aren't saying that (none / 0) (#85)
    by Grey on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:41:56 AM EST
    That is Anne Kornblut's commentary, not Lewis's take.  He was front and center as a defender of the Clintons in South Carolina and beyond; Anne is just trying to inject nastiness in her reporting.  It's what she always does.


    Parent
    In part (none / 0) (#99)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:53:34 AM EST
    well... (none / 0) (#30)
    by chemoelectric on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:32:55 AM EST
    The Clinton campaign reaction is exactly what it would be if Lewis were switching; a Lewis spokesperson may not have the news yet; and Lewis wouldn't have needed to speak to Obama about this, since it is not a quid pro quo or anything like that.

    Maybe there is a John Lewis impostor giving interviews. :)

    Parent

    Actually, (none / 0) (#51)
    by Alien Abductee on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:25:21 AM EST
    it's that he's considering flipping back to Obama:

    Moreover, incidentally, this isn't so much Lewis flipping as Lewis flipping back. See this, from January 2007:

        Atlanta Congressman John Lewis, who was a key leader in the civil rights efforts of the 1960s, said he was an early supporter of Bill Clinton and admired his wife, but called Obama "refreshing" and said he would back him.



    Parent
    Now can people see... (none / 0) (#55)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:25:58 AM EST
    what Black women are going through if they support Clinton? They're being called a "race traitor" if they do.

    It's a community that's trying to do all it can to get a Black president. The methods can be downright dividing, and outright disgusting (our sisters need to vote on conscience and their values, not peer pressure).

    It's just sickening that race dividers can run slopshod, but if anyone calls them on it if it's a media darling, is called on the carpet. Double standards galore.

    True test if this media darling can do anything without censor, will be if he makes even a perceived anti-semitic remark (like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have made). If he can, without the media going crazy, you know it's the media driving the "momentum", not the people.

    Parent

    Race traitor, gender traitor (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:55:15 AM EST
    Why is this so tiresome?

    Parent
    Absolving (none / 0) (#60)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:37:37 AM EST
    What is strange is that so many whites believe that if we have a black president, any black president, white America will be absolved of the institutional and historical racism.  They will be cleansed.  

    What hypocrites.  Where I live all the people who did not send their kids to public schools all have Obama signs on their lawns.  These same people who thought their children were too special to go to integrated schools and hid behind the false liberal facade.

    Parent

    Yep, atonement... (none / 0) (#65)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:01:04 AM EST
    and yet many Blacks won't believe it.

    I'm happy some Blacks have shrugged off Jesse and Al and striked their own path of self-determination. But as long as these two, who make their living off the divide, can make such a living, there will be no peace, as those two will rub salt into wounds on and on and on.

    That's what's sad about it all.

    Parent

    Yes, the wonderful Faye Wattleton (none / 0) (#61)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:38:23 AM EST
    said it was "agonizing" to be faced with this choice -- she is, after all, head of a major organization for women now -- but also that it was an amazing moment in history to have this choice at all.

    I still can't figure out from her comments, though, just how she voted.  And that's the way it ought to be.  

    Parent

    It really is too bad (none / 0) (#25)
    by blogtopus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:28:14 AM EST
    This will only blow up in Obama's face, either now or in the GE against McCain (in October). He just set up a mine for him to trip on further down the road.

    Jeebus Crispy

    And if so... (none / 0) (#59)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:36:32 AM EST
    the GOP will eat him alive over it. The result is like in many elections when race becomes a sticking point, the voter is going to be weary. Voters like Black candidates, they just don't like the militant type (why I don't pay too much attention to the GA primary white male vote. Remember GA has open primaries, vote one way in the primaries, vote the real way at the GE).

    If Obama gets the nomination, sorry Dems, he's going to get the Kerry treatment. All the fanfare and all won't save him. Just like what happened with Gore.

    With Hillary the best the GOP can do is yawn about Bill with waffles. Been there, done that...what about the syrup? ;)

    Parent

    The McCain-on-Clinton Attack machine (none / 0) (#82)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:24:56 AM EST

    So far, the best I've seen them come up with is this.  Pretty sad, no?  :)

    Parent
    Not surprised (none / 0) (#64)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:44:00 AM EST
    Got banned from there back in 2004, while trying to warn the Kossacks, that their golden boy Kerry wasn't going to win, if their tactics were just the ABB mindset. They were more upset that I wasn't a Dem.

    They have a hive mindset. A destructive one as well (same goes for Hannity, but at least Hannity's forum allows Dems to post longer than 3 days).

    Yeah, they are stupid. (none / 0) (#76)
    by ghost2 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:45:01 AM EST
    I don't know about your background.  But they childishly think that they can wave a wand, and all this negative stuff disappears in ether.

    The other day, Krugman had an excellent point.  He said none of his critism of Obama is something that could be used against him in GE, but the same cannot be said of the so-called progressives' critism of Hillary.  

    Yeah, they can call her calculating, conniving, corporatist, and every other name in the book, and come general election, they can pretend and everyone (including press and GOP) will forget this.

    And everyone gets ponies.

    What idiots!

    Parent

    Michigan (none / 0) (#66)
    by Ernesto Del Mundo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:17:14 AM EST
    I don't approve of hardball or sleazy politics no matter if it's the Republican or Democrats doing it. No matter if it's Clinton or Obama doing it. I am personally disgusted by the Clinton campaign trying to have the Michigan delegates seated at the convention. That is a total sham!

    yes, after justifying (none / 0) (#74)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:08:16 AM EST
    leaving her name on the ballot by saying - these votes will not count.

    Zero integrity.

    Parent

    OK, explain to me (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by echinopsia on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:52:21 AM EST
    The integrity involved in threatening and race-baiting super delegates.

    Don't tell me Obama didn't do it. If he does not condemn this, he owns it.

    Just like he owns the race-bating JJJr. did with Hillary's "tears," just like he owns the ad in Nevada saying "She has no shame, she does not respect our people."

    Parent

    They were discussing Clinton's.... (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:11:00 AM EST
    lack of integrity, which is a seperate issue from Obama's lack of integrity.

    "the other guy's a piker too" is no excuse and no defense.

    Parent

    OK then (none / 0) (#120)
    by echinopsia on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:45:31 AM EST
    Explain to me the integrity involved in removing your name from the ballot in order to appease Iowans and New Hampshirites.

    Parent
    You've got me confused with.... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:20:55 PM EST
    somebody who supports either of these con-people, I'm voting for neither because I want a candidate who will cease occupying foreign countries and work to repeal drug prohibition, amongst other things.  That rules out Clinton and Obama.

    If you're looking for a candidate with integity, hope that Nader runs.

    Parent

    they removed their names from the ballots (none / 0) (#144)
    by Tano on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:12:18 PM EST
    because the election would not count. Clinton agreed with this too. She agreed not to campaign in Michigan.

    Once again, you are avoiding the issue. Instead of admitting the obvious, that Clinton is trying to pull a fast one here by stealing these delegates, you try to pretend that Obama and Edwards were merely trying to suck up to Iowa and NH. Well, if they were, then Clinton was doing the exact same thing - by agreeing to sanction MI and agreeing not to campaign here.

    Why are you so invested in pretending that this is something other than what it obviously is?

    Parent

    I could ask you the same question. (none / 0) (#149)
    by echinopsia on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:44:23 PM EST
    It's pretty universally understood that removing their names from the ballot in MI was done to improve their chances in Iowa and NH. Don't take my word for it, look it up.

    Parent
    Hillary, really needs to hammer this home... (none / 0) (#67)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:19:50 AM EST
    as this is a major issue...

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0215/p01s04-usec.html

    Used to remember all of the cotton mills and factories that used the thread it spun around here. Pay wasn't as much as up North, but families had a decent living.

    They're all about gone now, exported to countries abroad.

    The last mill that remained opened, the city tried to keep it afloat, but the owners couldn't afford, too. 400 jobs lost at the plant (no telling how many overall were lost, since it doesn't count the accountants; truckers and other help a plant needs).

    We can't live well in a service economy, it doesn't pay a living wage.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080215/ap_on_el_pr/obama_union_endorsement_7

    service industry (none / 0) (#101)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:54:10 AM EST
    First, I don't know of any experts who truly believe that anyone can reverse the movement towards the service industry.  Like it not, it is going to happen.

    Second, what does the SEIU endorsement have to do with mills closing?

    Third, you are right that most service jobs don't pay a living wage at this point.  But that is one of the key things that SEIU is doing - making service jobs sustainable jobs.  

    Parent

    Anything can be reversed... (none / 0) (#134)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:01:54 PM EST
    if the voters want it reversed.

    And my comments about the mills closing is that good paying jobs, traditions, history, and a culture were lost. Those mills were little cities in their own right, going all the way back to the pre-civil war days. By the 80s they have improved alot, and workers (like my mom) made a good living, much more than I could've made after school at McDonald's. Because of those mills -- and factories -- she managed to pay off her house upon retirement, too.

    Now tell me what service job bagging groceries, and being a cashier, is going to bring home that type of money? To have that same American dream?

    NAFTA/CAFTA shut those mills down. Not because there wasn't folks willing to do the work, nor the work was more inferior, but because it gave businesses an easy ticket to make higher profits abroad.

    And you KNOW your OBABA isn't going to reverse NAFTA/CAFTA, because his handlers won't allow it. His history shows that he can be influenced even by ONE crook, no telling how many more will be in his portfolio, considering the donations he's been getting (don't tell me it's all $10 online donations keeping him in money).

    Parent

    Actually... (none / 0) (#135)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:20:08 PM EST
    Now tell me what service job bagging groceries, and being a cashier, is going to bring home that type of money?
    Actually union grocer jobs pay quite well.  And get very good benefits.
    And you KNOW your OBABA isn't going to reverse NAFTA/CAFTA, because his handlers won't allow it.
    Are you implying that Hillary Clinton will?  I would love to see one shred of evidence that would lead you to think that Clinton would reverse NAFTA/CAFTA.
    His history shows that he can be influenced even by ONE crook
    Influenced?  If you can show me one example of Obama casting a vote based on the influence of a "crook," this argument may have some credibility.

    Parent
    Higher skills = higher pay, not the reverse... (none / 0) (#140)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:59:45 PM EST
    "Actually, union grocer jobs pay quite well."

    They shouldn't be paid quite well. Service jobs require no real skills, and why they're reserved for high schoolers and those first getting out of school.

    That's how it's always been -- more skills = higher pay.

    My sis gets almost $15/hr for her job just for cleaning. Do you know what she has to do to pull that money in? Her next requirement for her job is to get certified being a fork lift operator. That's on top of certifications in numerous other sub-specialities (including industrial hazardous material handling and disposal...and all things, how to use harnesses to repeal 40ft into tanks to clean them). All for the right to just clean a plant.

    Now tell me the justification for a bagger to get the same $15/hr?

    Parent

    Changing... (none / 0) (#142)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:05:22 PM EST
    ... the conversation.

    This isn't a conversation about whether or not service workers SHOULD get more money.  It was whether or not they get paid a living wage.  

    And many of them do.  And many more of them are getting closer and closer to through organizing.  

    As for whether or not grocery baggers deserve to be paid decently, this is probably not the appropriate forum/post to be discussing that.

    Parent

    I asked you a simple question (none / 0) (#143)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:12:12 PM EST
    What justification, based on skills and experience, does a bagger have to get $15/hr?

    I like to know, because my groceries sure aren't getting cheaper, especially at Krogers. Will my mom, sis and I have to take our business elsewhere because we have $15/hr bag boys, just so we can eat? Cause I sure don't have the money to spend on unions who can fly their bag boys to Hawaii for sun and fun.

    Parent

    Who... (none / 0) (#145)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:26:40 PM EST
    ... is flying bag boys to Hawaii?

    My comment about going to Hawaii or Puerto Rico was a joke.

    As for what justifies them making $15/hr?  I believe that all jobs deserve a living wage.  It is that simple for me.

    But I still don't get this conversation.  You have changed it from being "We can't live well in a service economy, it doesn't pay a living wage." to "They shouldn't be paid quite well. Service jobs require no real skills."

    Again... this is two separate conversations.  

    Parent

    Answer the question... (none / 0) (#146)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 03:47:17 PM EST
    Still waiting for the answer, not justifying anything else.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one liking to know the justification of higher pay for lower skills, over experience and qualifications. It's even a bone of contention in unions.

    So, answer how can a bag boy justify $15/hr, when a factory worker can't make that without longevity and qualifications?

    This is a meat and potato issue, MM. One talked about across many a table in America.

    Parent

    I answered the question (none / 0) (#147)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:11:29 PM EST
    I NEVER said that lower skill jobs should get paid more than higher skill jobs, did I?  Please don't make things up.  That would be called a strawman.

    If you want to continue the conversation, you will have to do it without pretending I am making arguments.  

    I believe that all jobs deserve a living wage.  Whether they are skilled or unskilled, grocery baggers or factory workers, truckers or cab drivers, home care workers or nurses, childcare providers or janitors.  

    Parent

    And.... (none / 0) (#148)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:25:27 PM EST
    ... by the way.

    Your original question never asked why grocery baggers should get paid more than skilled jobs.  You asked this:

    What justification, based on skills and experience, does a bagger have to get $15/hr?
    But I guess it is easier to knock arguments down that never existed rather than dealing with what I am actually saying.

    Parent
    Still no answer... (none / 0) (#155)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:01:33 PM EST
    You sure like to tell people business you have none to tell, but yet can't spend 3 minutes to answer a simple question.

    No wonder why folks call Obama supporters cultists!

    Parent

    ugh... (none / 0) (#156)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:00:44 PM EST
    ... I have answered the first question.

    I believe that grocery baggers deserve to make $15/hr because I believe that all workers deserve to make at least a living wage.  It is pretty simply and pretty straight forward.  And this is now the third time I have answered the question.  

    Your second question (why do unskilled deserve to make more than skilled) is irrelevant, because I do not need to justify a point that I never made.  

    And I have no idea what this has to do with Obama at this point.

    But go ahead and keep creating strawman arguments that you can easily knock down.  

    Parent

    Now who allied with Congressional Repubs (none / 0) (#103)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:00:11 AM EST
    to get all those trade agreements through Congress? NAFTA, WTO. Hmmm, I seem to remember a debate with someone's Vice President, let me see, it's getting clearer now. It's Al Gore, and he's arguing with a squirrelly little man with big ears who's saying something about the sound of American jobs leaving the country.

    Now who was that President?

    Parent

    One sided reporting (none / 0) (#68)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:21:33 AM EST
    Now look at the one sided pick of on air comments. The ratio of con to pro? 5 to 1...

    http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/14/what-should-dems-do-about-michigan-florida-delegates/

    This reminds me of the same press, so worried that they'll be denied access to Bush, they didn't bother to do their job -- but tout his line.

    Go home, Jack.

    What the heck? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by SandyK on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 04:53:02 AM EST
    CNN is even highlighting endorsements...

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/14/clinton.obama/index.html?iref=topnews

    This IS the most one sided political reporting I've ever seen. It's almost like the media is trying to crown the next Dem president.

    That's not the media's job, it's the voters.

    Parent

    Daniel Ortega Praises Obama Revolution (none / 0) (#75)
    by Aaron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 06:36:00 AM EST
    Nicaraguan leader calls Obama's campaign 'revolutionary'

    President Daniel Ortega, who led the 1979 revolution in Nicaragua, says Barack Obama's presidential bid is a "revolutionary" phenomenon in the United States.

    "It's not to say that there is already a revolution under way in the U.S. ... but yes, they are laying the foundations for a revolutionary change," the Sandinista leader said Wednesday night as he accepted an honorary doctorate from an engineering university.

    Ortega led a Soviet-backed government that battled U.S.-supported Contra rebels before he lost power in a 1990 election. He returned to office last year via the ballot box.

    In statements broadcast on Sandinista Radio La Primerisima, Ortega said he has "faith in God and in the North American people, and above all in the youth, that the moment of great change in the U.S. will come and it will act differently, with justice and equality toward all nations."  




    Carville (none / 0) (#81)
    by hvs on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:20:28 AM EST
    I noticed on CNN last night that Carville is lowering expectations for Hill in Texas and Ohio. He said that if she wins those primaries "it will be the biggest comeback in political history." Well, um, everyone expects her to win them. The real issue is can she crush Barack in order to even make this thing close.

    Hillary will win OH and TX
    if Hill wins OH and TX "it will be the biggest comeback in political history"
    Therefore, March 4th will witness the biggest comeback in political history.

    Question is, will you and the media buy the spin?
    ...

    By the way, you've gotta expect that many people are going to vote according to their identity politics. No need to cry "zombie!"

    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#107)
    by IndependantThinker on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:26:48 AM EST
    Identity voting doesn't appear to be widespread. Please tell me how I am wrong, but the only real voters using identity are AA voters, and I don't mean Asian.

    Parent
    Did you read Josh Marshall's (none / 0) (#86)
    by MarkL on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 07:49:39 AM EST
    twaddle about Lewis yet? He droned on and on about the tremendous significance of the switch.

    USA Today (none / 0) (#90)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:14:45 AM EST
    Has a canary in the coal mine warning about hype.

    WaPo has something, too, but I can't find the link and I'm too lazy to go look.

    My niece sent $25 to Clinton today, and she promised me she would get ten more of her friends to do the same.  The funny thing is, her brother the lazy college drop out who lives in a trailer did the same thing--unasked.  

    It is not over by any stretch.  Chins up, girls.  We've been here before and we know how to keep moving on.

    If not now, then Hillary will be (none / 0) (#91)
    by ding7777 on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:25:21 AM EST
    ideal in 2012.

    If Obama can't beat McCain in Nov, he's finihed.

    Parent

    Stellaaa!!!! (none / 0) (#94)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:36:07 AM EST
    Rezko.

    No, don't thank me.

    Thank you but ? (none / 0) (#111)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:43:44 AM EST
    but I am in California...just woke up.!! for my morning cup of Rezko

    Parent
    kathy, ever vigilant. (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:32:22 AM EST
    But this one is really a stretch.

    Parent
    oh-this one has a prettier picture (none / 0) (#95)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 08:37:02 AM EST
    Mena (1.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Bob In Pacifica on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:02:59 AM EST
    Where do you think the cocaine that Obama sniffed came from?

    Parent
    Interesting. (none / 0) (#125)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:36:44 AM EST
    Are you a Republican? (none / 0) (#139)
    by Alien Abductee on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:50:55 PM EST
    Really, what's with you and your obsession with smearing Obama with this non-story?

    Parent
    So, we hear that (none / 0) (#106)
    by IndependantThinker on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:23:18 AM EST
    40% of all Obama superdelegate supporters have received money from him for their campaigns and Black superdelegates are being threatened with losing their jobs if they don't vote for him. This is the guy you folks want to see as President of the United States. LOL! This is the guy who is going to change politics in America, bring hope and a new way. LOL! Obama is still the darling of the Media so you can rest assured that the MSM isn't going to connect the dots for low information voters. But lets not fool ourselves here ok.

    Clinton pictures from Ohio (none / 0) (#110)
    by Aaron on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 09:41:18 AM EST
    Here's one for all you Clinton supporters.  :-)

    Hillary at Ohio State -- more pics

    Wow, thanks, Ohio! Look at that line (none / 0) (#131)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:15:00 PM EST
    waiting and look at that crowd.  And thanks, John Glenn, too. You've still got the "right stuff.":-)

    Parent
    super delegates won't matter (none / 0) (#115)
    by jdj on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 10:10:08 AM EST
    Because Obama will soon be leading by more than their sway.

    Good slant from Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (none / 0) (#126)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 11:48:09 AM EST
    Politics blog -- and word is that the big event, for those nearby, will be Monday night (after we shovel out from another foot of snow on the way!) in Milwaukee.  But KenoshaMarge and KenoshaRick, she will be nearby you in Racine on primary morning:

    "Hillary Rodham Clinton's latest Wisconsin campaign schedule doesn't sound like the battle plan of a candidate who is conceding the state, as some have suggested.  Unofficially, her schedule after Saturday's party dinner (mostly town hall-style events, we're told) looks like this:

    "Sunday: Milwaukee, Green Bay, Madison.
    Monday: Eau Claire, Wausau, Oshkosh, Milwaukee.
    Tuesday morning: Racine."

    I'll post more info as I get it and as I can -- or see jsonline.com and check Newswatch at the top and/or click on the Politics link at the middle right, then watch the blog there (and much else there).

    Another Risky Opinion (none / 0) (#129)
    by piezo on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:04:51 PM EST
    Does anyone really think that Obama would even be a contender if he WASN'T a black man? Let's get real here.

    disgusting (none / 0) (#136)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 01:21:34 PM EST
    Hopefully Jeralyn or BTD will erase such a comment.

    Parent
    From Sam Stein's Huff Post column: (none / 0) (#153)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 05:39:07 PM EST
    In addition to Wisconsin, Texas and Ohio are the two major upcoming battlegrounds. And in the Lone Star state on Friday, former President Bill Clinton reemerged as an attack-dog, saying that while Obama "excites" voters, his health care plan "would in fact deny us universal health-care coverage." The Obama campaign responded by calling the line a "false accusation", the kind "that failed his wife's campaign in South Carolina."
     {Italics added.]