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Candidates' Last Minute Pitches to Wisconsin Voters

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:08:00 PM EST
Tags: Wisonsin'08 (all tags)
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Barack Obama's speech last night referenced Martin Luther King, Jr. and J.F.K and was about hope and change.

Michelle Obama, at Milwaukee's Pabst Theater, weighed in with this:

"Barack understands that what we're lacking in this nation are will and hope," she said. "Our souls are broken."

Beyond corny. I find it somewhat offensive for her to proclaim my soul is broken.

Hillary's speech centered on economic issues and was aimed at middle-class voters. More here.

Oh, and Hillary, we learn today, is a beer-lover. [More...]

And after offering to have a beer with voters at her last stop in Madison, WI, she expressed her fondness for a good brew, saying she’s been known to work “both sides of the beer aisle.” Glass of wine in hand, she said a particular favorite on the road is a wheat beer called Blue Moon — which she likes with an orange dropped in.

[/sarcasm, even I think that one was an attempt to get votes.]

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    Candidates' Last Minute Pitches to Wisconsin Voters | 134 comments (134 topical)

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    Hands off my soul (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by americanincanada on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:35:16 PM EST
    I do not want my president or my government to touch my damn soul. Leave it alone. I am not electing a "soul-healer"...I want a president.

    The messianic slant os becoming a full on platform...creepy beyond words.

    "lost souls" (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by christinep on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:11:39 PM EST
    Lots of appropriation going on...with the Obamas.  The mixing of Church language with political dialog is one aspect that causes particular discomfort.  I am a practicing Catholic and a lifelong Democrat.  I believe that it is more than sensible to "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's."  Discussions about the soul seem very much out-of-place in the political arena.  That is putting it mildly.  It is more than presumptious; and, at the very least, begins to look like the Bush tendency to mix/merge plain politics with religion.  But, even more: When people start talking as though they have the superior ability to discern our most spiritual selves, that might be a harbinger of things to come.  (Didn't Senator Obama say that "words have meaning? So, what is the meaning, sir, of Michelle Obama's clear words?)

    I don't know. . . (none / 0) (#131)
    by hookfan on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:22:27 PM EST
    What is a soul anyway? Never seen one, tasted one, smelt one either. Is it like a pipe? Maybe it transfers soul juice! Oh! I get it-- that's how this thread is connected to beer!

    Parent
    She just started loving her country (3.50 / 2) (#1)
    by Jim J on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:05:31 PM EST
    when her husband ran for president, and now our "souls are broken."

    Wow, what a patriot.

    Brilliant! (none / 0) (#4)
    by znosaro on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:09:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Makes sense (none / 0) (#6)
    by mexboy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:10:45 PM EST
    The soul is the realm of religion or spirituality, and if ours are broken we need a savior. In comes Obama!


    Parent
    she needs to stop that (none / 0) (#15)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:29:38 PM EST
    kind of talk.

    Its a huge turnoff.

    Parent

    Michelle Obama (none / 0) (#2)
    by Steve M on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    sure offers up a lot of tone-deaf quotes.  Time for another round of WORM.

    I don't want a beer with her (none / 0) (#3)
    by cdelarge on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:07:36 PM EST


    I'll have a beer with just about anyone (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:42:19 PM EST
    provided they behave themselves

    Parent
    i like blue moon too (none / 0) (#5)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:09:54 PM EST
    but it's fruity enough without an orange in it.

    indeed (none / 0) (#24)
    by Nasarius on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:33:47 PM EST
    But at about the same price, I prefer the genuine Belgian Hoegaarden, rather than the Coors knockoff.

    Parent
    Well aren't we special? (none / 0) (#27)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:35:19 PM EST
    I am afraid my local grocery doesn't stock that.

    But I will definitely try it if I see it.

    ;-)

    Parent

    a shame (none / 0) (#33)
    by Nasarius on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:39:34 PM EST
    It's mass-produced, and along with Leffe, fairly common in the US. I think they keep the really good stuff in Belgium for themselves :)

    Parent
    I have a really good liquor warehouse (none / 0) (#40)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:43:19 PM EST
    down the street. I'll check there.

    Parent
    I believe Hillary on this. (none / 0) (#52)
    by TheRealFrank on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:56:00 PM EST
    Because liking a fruity beer with extra fruit in it, well, the beer crowd (e.g. middle and lower class voters, mostly men) would think that's a total girly thing to do, and something they don't want to be associated with.

    Therefore, it's not much of a pander :-)

    Beer with fruit? It's a crime. Don't ever try it.. not even the authentic "wild fermentation" Kriek fruit beers from Belgium. It's just not right.


    Parent

    THey serve it at restaurants that way (none / 0) (#62)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:05:53 PM EST
    it ruins it.

    Parent
    Hey man, don't knock beer with fruit. (none / 0) (#66)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:07:32 PM EST
    Corona with lime!  Not girly!

    Parent
    Corona needs to lime (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:12:28 PM EST
    to have any flavor at all.

    Parent
    whatever you say... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Tano on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:24:22 PM EST


    Parent
    You're quite obviously (none / 0) (#117)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:42:34 PM EST
    ignorant of us Mexicans and the way we take our Coronas.

    Parent
    Don't tell that to the Germans (none / 0) (#77)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:20:47 PM EST
    Even the manly men like beer with fruit syrups and all sorts of other things added. Coke and beer, lemonade and beer, etc.

    Lost of folks of German descent in WI.

    Parent

    Yah, youbetcha -- fruity beer (none / 0) (#101)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:07:28 PM EST
    very popular down by Mwokee here dere, ain'a.  Seriously, it's especially big for our many microbreweries.  Many of the proprietors went to Muenchen (Munich) to learn, and they came home with great recipes for fruity and other unusual beers.

    If ever in Mwokee, try Lakefront Brewery, and ask for whichever is the seasonal beer at the time.  Do so on a Friday night, and you can get a free beer and a tour before you do the fish fry -- with polka band in lederhosen.  A taste of Muenchen in many ways.

    Parent

    In Chile (none / 0) (#110)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:18:17 PM EST
    beer mixed with Fanta is a favorite

    Parent
    don't forget (none / 0) (#7)
    by elim on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:14:33 PM EST
    her quote about now being the first time in her life she is proud of her country-why, given this apparent contempt and loathing for America, would these people want to be in the White House?  I realize it might be calling her patriotism into question to actually mention that but what is wrong with these people?

    I gave her a pass and didn't (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:16:23 PM EST
    write that one up because I don't think that's what she meant, but this one with "broken souls" I can't get by.

    Gives me an idea for late night tonight...check back later.

    Parent

    getting really uneasy (none / 0) (#102)
    by irene adler on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:08:28 PM EST
    michelle obama is starting to remind me of teresa heinz kerry... another smart, accomplished woman whose way of saying things just didn't sit well.

    Parent
    Why? Because if they get to the White House (none / 0) (#103)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:08:59 PM EST
    it could be the second time she would be proud to be an American.  That oughta get your vote, to make the Obamas proud.

    Parent
    Here's the clue: (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:12:24 PM EST
    PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN

    Michelle Obama is more of a White Sox fan than we knew.  This song is frequently played during fireworks shows at MLB games.

    Parent

    Here's an even bigger clue: (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 05:00:14 PM EST

    The shining example of the handiwork of Obama (a.k.a. wasting time in the Senate)

    S.RES.291 : A resolution to congratulate the Chicago White Sox on winning the 2005 World Series Championship.

    Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 10/27/2005) Cosponsors (1)

    Latest Major Action: 10/27/2005 Passed/agreed to in Senate. Status: Submitted in the Senate, considered, and agreed to without amendment and with a preamble by Unanimous Consent.

    (That's out of the 152 bills where he was the primary sponsor.  And I looked over Clinton's record (of around 150 bills, I think)...couldn't find anything as frivolous.

    Parent

    Thank you for clarifying. (none / 0) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:15:37 PM EST
    I had feared, for a split second, that you had actually jumped the shark.
    Oh, and Hillary, we learn today, is a beer-lover. [...] [/sarcasm, even I think that one was an attempt to get votes.]
    Good one!

    What...it's hard to believe she loves beer? (none / 0) (#17)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:31:33 PM EST
    Come on. What do you think, that she acquired a taste for it so she could run for office?

    Parent
    She's from Chicago, where they (none / 0) (#104)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:10:49 PM EST
    love them their beer.  (Or brewski, as we say in some neighborhoods there as well as in Wisconsin.)

    I have yet to meet a Bears fan who can't outchug anyone.  

    Parent

    Aw, C'mon (none / 0) (#10)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:20:45 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton said, in a speech last week, that we have "to change our hearts" and to "change our attitudes".

    Would it be fair to write: "Beyond corny. I find it somewhat offensive for her to proclaim my heart and attitude needs changing."

    Can we find something more substantive to criticize?

    not even close (none / 0) (#16)
    by mexboy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:30:55 PM EST
    having a "broken soul"  is being a damaged human being. Been to church lately?

    Having a change of heart and a change of attitudes means to see a different way of doing things. No judgement on someone's wholeness.

    Parent

    I'll admit (none / 0) (#34)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:39:39 PM EST
    that "broken soul" is a bit over the top.  And it's not the same as saying that I need to change my attitude.

    But, still, if Hillary is saying that I need to change my attitude, that's a bit presumptuous, too, don't you think.

    Rather, in my view, both Hillary and Michelle were using the "royal we" when speaking about America.

    We are an America that, apparently, puts up with torture, right?  A la Hillary, we need to change our attitude about that.  Is our "soul broken" because we seem to accept that?  Perhaps.  OTOH, perhaps that's going a bit too far, but I don't find such an expression offensive.

    Look, Michelle Obama (unlike the other three) has never been in this position before.  Is she going to say stupid things?  Yes.  It's hard to feel personally insulted about it.

    It'd be better, imho, to criticize Obama on something glike health care, rather than an inarticulate expression by his wife.

    But, hey, what do I know.  I just like to see less criticism and less harsh language in general.  From everybody.

    Parent

    Similar to Obama campaign (none / 0) (#46)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:49:14 PM EST
    selecting McClurkin to campaign with Obama, I read her "broken soul" remark as a call out to people who are looking for a candidate identified with evangelicals  

    Parent
    Inexperience is no excuse! (none / 0) (#64)
    by mexboy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:06:31 PM EST
    Michelle Obama is an educated woman, and if she's not ready to be in this position, she should stay out of it then.

    Everyone jumps on Hillary's husband when he utters an "inarticulate expression." I find it only fair that Obam's spouse be held to the same scrutiny Hillary's is, when they are out promoting their spouses.

    I don't know the context of Hillary's remarks, but I agree with them in principle. I think we as a united country need a change of heart and attitude about things like; tolerance, heck, let's just accept and embrace peoples differences instead of just tolerating them. Torture, as you mentioned, race relations, the Iraq war, healthcare, warrant-less spying on Americans, etc.

    What the spouse of our next president says in public will have repercussions at home and abroad, because people will naturally  believe their words to be the president's beliefs.

    Parent

    But it's far from the first time (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM EST
    that the Other Obama has shown that she needs to watch her, well, words.  I don't like her "tone," and I haven't liked it for a long time now.  Go look up a couple of the many Youtube bits of her comments.  

    Parent
    I don't want the government (none / 0) (#82)
    by Tano on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:29:52 PM EST
    to change my attitudes, or my heart.

    That is really creepy.

    Parent

    Then I presume you won't be voting for (none / 0) (#87)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:38:38 PM EST
    Michelle?

    Parent
    Well, a vote for her husband (none / 0) (#94)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:54:44 PM EST
    is a vote for four years of her saying these kinds of thing on a national stage.

    Nooooo thanks.

    Parent

    It would be a lot more interesting (none / 0) (#95)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:56:00 PM EST
    than Laura Bush's tenure though, don't you think?

    Parent
    Anything would be better (none / 0) (#124)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:57:33 PM EST
    than Our Dear Laura.

    But what I really want to see is all the precedent-setting of the first First Gentleman done by Bill Clinton. What fun that will be.

    Really, who better? Hillary meeting with heads of state while Bill has tea with their spouses and takes them on tours of the rose garden. Perfect.

    Parent

    I wonder what his experience is at selecting (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 05:57:35 PM EST
    the menu, seating of guests, and table decor for state dinners?

    Parent
    C''mon, Obama sponsored a bill (none / 0) (#136)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 07:15:28 PM EST
    to name a post office in Illinois, too.  (But I didn't check so assiduously as did you to see if he somehow got his bill through.)

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#88)
    by Democratic Cat on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:42:10 PM EST
    I don't want it repairing my soul either.  It's all creepy.

    I'd be happy if government respected civil liberties and paved the roads and helped the poor. That would be a good start.

    Parent

    HRC campaign concedes the wine-track (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM EST
    demographic to Obama.

    I live in Napa (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:32:29 PM EST
    We went for Clinton.

    (Just sayin)

    Parent

    Comforting. I keep thinking (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:38:33 PM EST
    I'm supporting the wrong candidate as I am clearly wine-track and have too many degrees to be an HRC supporter.  Age and gender do fit.

    Parent
    I voted for Obama (none / 0) (#36)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:40:24 PM EST
    but the county went for Clinton, like the rest of California.

    She seems to be OK with winos and educated people here.

    Parent

    of course... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:48:59 PM EST
    That is where the people who make it know what it takes to make wine: hard work and sweat and that wine is part of life that heals the broken souls.  Go Napa.  (Sonoma is more of Obama I bet) Marin, well, the new age people just out did themsleves.  

    Parent
    Bill visited our little (none / 0) (#61)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:04:54 PM EST
    500 seat operahouse.

    And he met privately with some of our community including an advocate for abused children whom I know personally.

    Pretty cool.

    I really will be happy with whomever wins the candidacy. I am not a hyperpartisan.

    Parent

    Pardon me but (none / 0) (#79)
    by echinopsia on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:25:03 PM EST
    Napa makes auto parts.
    Sonoma makes wine.

    (I keed, I keed - former Sonoma dweller)

    Parent

    Ms. Echinos (none / 0) (#85)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:35:13 PM EST
    Sonoma is actually quite pretty.  
    My favorite sea food, sea urchins aka in Greek, Echinos or Achinos depending you Anglocize  Greek.  


    Parent
    Sonoma wines are decent too (none / 0) (#90)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:48:13 PM EST
    Surprisingly, since many of the vines are grown on floodplain clays of the Laguna de Santa Rosa watershed.

    I wanted to collect soil from this guys' vineyard, and he said that the soil had been brought in from "god knows where" from a previous owner and had a bunch of garbage in it.

    Interesting terroir.

    Parent

    ROFL or whatever LMAO (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:03:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Apparently she had a glass of red wine (none / 0) (#86)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:37:35 PM EST
    in hand. I wonder if much time was spent on choosing which color?
    MADISON, WIS. -- After a long day of campaigning, Hillary Clinton unwound with the traveling press aboard Hill-Force One late last night. Armed with a glass of red wine, Clinton spoke on the record to reporters about her favorite beer, "Blue Moon" and how she is "bipartisan" when it comes to her favorite choice in ales.


    Parent
    Probably not, or she would have had white (none / 0) (#91)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:49:19 PM EST
    (better on the clothing - for on the go folks, you know)

    Parent
    Really? I think red is often perceived (none / 0) (#92)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:53:13 PM EST
    as less feminine.

    Parent
    Red? (none / 0) (#125)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:03:09 PM EST
    I knew I liked her.  But I also think of red as being more a winter wine.  Who wants a chilled white after leaving Wisconsin?  She probably was a chilled white by then.

    Parent
    You are right (none / 0) (#128)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:11:13 PM EST
    red is warming, wine and beer cool you down.

    Parent
    Good point. (none / 0) (#130)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:18:28 PM EST


    Parent
    From the Obama speech last night (none / 0) (#12)
    by Saul on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:28:11 PM EST
    he said: Clinton has called him a "talker, not a doer," Obama noted. But, he said, "The last thing we need is to have the same old (Washington) folks doing the same old things." He has claimed the Clintons as the old folks doing same old polictical things using the same old political machinery.  Is it not hypocritical then to  accept the endorsement of Caroline Kennedy, whose father JFK was an old folk with 14 years experience before he ran for the presidency as well as accepting Teddy's endorsements who has been the epitome of an old folk.

    Another point should he not reject endorsements that make him look hypocritical by accepting them if these endorsers have always accepted donations from registered lobbyist who he total rejects and is part of his campign rehetoric.

    Also him not keeping his agreement to using public campign financing because he can raise more money if he does not keep this agreement shows some hypocrisy about not being part of the old political machinery where he has said money has controlled so much which he is against.  

    How does a current U.S. Senator (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:32:46 PM EST
    such as Obama get away with running as an outsider?

    Parent
    Michelle Obama is freaking hilarious. (none / 0) (#13)
    by ajain on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:28:15 PM EST
     I cant believe she said that with a straight face.

    Believe it. (1.00 / 1) (#18)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:32:20 PM EST
    Believerpeople think we all have a thing they call 'souls' and that they can save them.

    Beyond wierd.

    Where's my voodoo doll, anyway?

    Parent

    Ugh. (none / 0) (#23)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:33:08 PM EST
    Are you kidding me? Did you really just say that?

    Parent
    In the 21st Century (none / 0) (#138)
    by oldpro on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 01:55:47 PM EST
    you don't think superstition is wierd?

    I thought we were supposed to be the reality community.

    Never mind.

    Parent

    It is the endtimes, and this (none / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:15:21 PM EST
    is how it happens.  Who knew?

    Parent
    "Our souls are broken" Whoo boy. (none / 0) (#21)
    by tigercourse on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:32:49 PM EST
    The more Obama and his wife keep repeating things like this the worse I feel. I can't stand that the Democrat in the GE will probably be less secular then the Republican. As a big, big proponent of secularism... it's gonna sting having to vote for the big Jesus guy.

    I thought Hillary preferred vodka shots (none / 0) (#22)
    by JJE on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:33:01 PM EST
    with McCain.

    McCain drinks (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:34:08 PM EST
    milk of magnesia. He can't have alcohol due to the meds.

    Parent
    That's just mean! (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by mexboy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:35:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Hey, both my parents are (none / 0) (#30)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:37:01 PM EST
    late 60s early 70s. It seems pretty factual.

    Parent
    nor while he's driving (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:35:56 PM EST
    your grandfather's oldsmobile.

    Parent
    phew. (none / 0) (#31)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:38:18 PM EST
    I was worried I might get deleted, as I wasn't positive this was a strict partisan site and Armando just told me we weren't allowed to slam the candidates.

    Nice to see McCain is fair game.

    Parent

    Not supposed to slam the Dem. candidates (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:51:07 PM EST
    here or personally insult their supporters.  Probably no restriction on slamming McCain or his supporters though.

    Parent
    That was the point I needed clarified. (none / 0) (#58)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:02:02 PM EST
    Thanks

    Parent
    J may jump in here and (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:02:56 PM EST
    give us the J rules though.

    Parent
    YouTube: Deval Patrick/Obama Speeches - Last Pitch (none / 0) (#35)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:40:06 PM EST
    ******

    Just Words. Just not Obama's.
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc

    YouTube video with split screen comparison where Obama rips-off Deval Patrick's 2006 speech.

    Watching this video is a little like watching a split-screen of Rhianna doing a cover of Aretha Franklin's "Respect".

    Note that Obama doesn't just do a verbatim rip-off of a whole paragraph from Patrick's speech. Obama also rips-off Patrick's style and delivery; his mannerisms, his tone, his attitude, and his cadence.

    Going a step further: Obama is performing a part in a play that was originally written for Deval Patrick. Note that Obama's rendition pales by comparison to Patrick's original performance.

    Parent

    FWIW (none / 0) (#43)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:45:11 PM EST
    according to here
    former Bill Clinton speechwriter David Kusnet doesn't think it's a big deal.

    FWIW.

    Parent

    According to ABC, Patrick's apologia (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:51:58 PM EST
    messed up the timeline.

    Parent
    No wonder he admired (none / 0) (#109)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:16:42 PM EST
    Reagan's communication skills.  He was an actor, too.

    Parent
    Sooooo literal! (none / 0) (#37)
    by 1jane on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:42:13 PM EST
    Literal readers are out in force. Mr. Obama and his wife aren't talking about religion they are talking about the past 8 years when the richest and strongest have been rewarded through tax cuts and tax incentives, the biggest national debt in our history, TWO wars, lost lives, inaction on Katrina..they are talking about the least among us. The Bush administration has used the middle class and working class like fodder for a meat slicing machine. Obama wants to provide the policies for repairing the damage done with the R's in power.

    But they are talking about religion (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:59:04 PM EST
    They know that people are hungry for salvation.  That is why the new age religion stuff works.  They take all the good and fuzzy stuff from world religions and leave all the icky parts:  damnation, sin, punishment, etc.  They heal you, they give you hope, they give you miracles to believe in.  Meantime they have mega empires that skin you alive while they sell you the same stuff.  

    Parent
    Boomers (none / 0) (#67)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:09:41 PM EST
    There is no more tell of boomerism than the political talk about souls.  So Obama can pose as a different generation all he wants, this tells a different story.  The Atlantic article that was one of the first to document Boomer/Gen X tension back in the early 1990s highlighted the difference between the Boomers (who tend their souls like hothouse flowers, according to the article) and the next generation who were seen as more pragmatic and practical.

    Parent
    Thanks for explaining (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by kmblue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:21:49 PM EST
    What the Obamas meant. ;)

    Parent
    1jane (none / 0) (#116)
    by auntmo on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:41:12 PM EST
    I still  don't need  Michelle  or  Barak  to  "heal  my  soul."   No  thank you.  MYOB

    Parent
    I'm not (none / 0) (#39)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:42:19 PM EST
    sure our nation is lacking will and hope. I know my soul is NOT broken. ... listening to that will certainly get you depressed! (If you have no health insurance then you're out of luck for happy pills!)

    Do people really believe this stuff? One man is going to lead us out of this mess? Good grief.

    Actually, my friend in Fla (none / 0) (#41)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:44:12 PM EST
    I have a friend in Florida who called to talk politics. She voted for Edwards in the Primary. Good. Then when he dropped out, she changed to Hillary. Good. Then Bill made some gaffs in SC and she was appalled and changed to Obama. OK. I don't mind her change as much as I am astounded on the reasons. Not the RC reason, but that she says he offers change and hope. I said, but his Health Care plan stinks. She says she knows that but he keeps saying he is for change and hope. This is a very political level headed person I met in college on our first day and we have been friends forever. I pointed out that there will be change when any Democrat takes back the WH and that we all hope for better times ahead. I reallly do not get it. It is like someone put subliminal messages in the speeches.Hope, change, and no substance. I asked her what he says in his speeches. She is vague but it sounds like he knows what he is talking about. She usually has good arguments but I think she is going to eventually wish she had look for that substance and by then it will be too late.

    there's plenty of substance (none / 0) (#44)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:47:47 PM EST
    if you choose to look at his website.

    You may disagree with what's there, but there's plenty of substance there.

    Parent

    I Do Agree With That (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:15:37 PM EST
    It's just not why I think people are voting for him.  I'd honestly feel better if I heard people say that I read his open net policies and like them better than Clinton's and those are very important to me.  

    And, honestly, I have no idea what his domestic priorities would be.  I know what his policies are, but which ones are the most important?  He can't do everything on the first day.  I don't think it's healthcare, so what is it?

    And I'm distressed by the way so many easily dismiss concerns about Obama's rightward drift on some domestic policy issues, particularly UHC.

    I think Obama could be running a policy campaign, but he isn't and that's what bothers me.  Because in the end, that's what I look to politicians for, policies, not to restore my broken soul.

    Parent

    "look at the website" (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:57:05 PM EST
    leaves out the almost 40% of Americans who are not online.

    If you are going to be the democratic candidate for the presidential election, you need to speak clearly and plainly to your base.  Telling people who work two jobs for $7 an hour, have kids they never see and who can barely manage to put food on the table to "go look on the internet to see my policies" is right up there with the shocking price of arugula.  

    Parent

    I wonder how many (none / 0) (#69)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:11:43 PM EST
    will change again should Sen Obama have some "Gaff"... meaning the media explodes and goes negative on him.

    I'm guessing alot.

    Parent

    it's just part of the political process (none / 0) (#47)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:50:27 PM EST
    when the candidate is in Little Italy, s/he loves pizzy; when in Wisconsin, cheese and beer; when in Texas, a good ole' bar-b-que.

    And everyone always loves babies.

    This stuff is just part of the political charade that everyone has to do.  Big deal.  Pick a real issue to criticize.

    If we followed that advice... (none / 0) (#51)
    by JJE on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:55:32 PM EST
    there'd be nothing to talk about!

    Parent
    good point! (none / 0) (#54)
    by A DC Wonk on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:57:53 PM EST
    I keep forgetting that back out in real life, Clinton's and Obama's policies are well over 90% the same.

    My bad ;)

    Parent

    She already sd. she knows how to hunt. (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:53:47 PM EST


    Starting to sound like an Oprah segment (none / 0) (#53)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:56:31 PM EST
    <blockquote>I came with a broken soul and then I saw him and for the first time I had pride in my country.  </blockquote>

    All the time channeling Jackie in the suits.  

    Cheese can be cheesy, but not corny. (none / 0) (#55)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 01:58:10 PM EST
    By the same token wheat beer can't be corny either.

    Wine is neither cheesy nor corny, merely whiny. But to make that reference w/in a 3 wood of Hillary would be sexist.

    Why have TL's threads seemed so trivial the past few weeks?

    Clinton and Beer (none / 0) (#60)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:04:01 PM EST
    She reportedly had beers with voters/supporters out here in LA.  I can see her as a beer liker, but the orange thing does make me have my doubts.

    I wasn't bothered by the Michelle Obama quote about being proud of her country for the first time because I thought - and still think - it just came out wrong.

    But the sould crap annoys me.  Aside from the fact that my soul is fine, even though I'm sure she thinks it's going to hell for being a non-Christian soul and for supporting Clinton (not necessarily in that order), I don't honestly look to politicians for soul repair.  And I don't think anyone should.  Talk about worshipping false idols (and I put every politician in that category, not just Obama).  

    But then, this is the wife of a candidate who claims to have been called by Christ.  If this were the first time that Obama and his folks have seemed to deliberately used religious imagery or language, I'd be more forgiving.  It's a them with them.  He's the One.  

    What about the first commandment: though (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:06:23 PM EST
    shalt have no other gods before me?

    P.S.  I'm definitely not a beer drinker, except in Ireland and Germany, but I'm pretty sure holding a beer in one hand and a glass of wine in the other is not the mark of a true beer drinker.  Kind of like rooting for the Cubs and the Yankees both.

    Parent

    "though" should be "thou" (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:06:52 PM EST


    Parent
    Apparently the Commandments don't apply (none / 0) (#73)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:15:40 PM EST
    because it's Obama.

    I keep saying that he's the golden calf that'll end up as McCain's Obamaburger in the GE.

    Parent

    Have to be a theist (none / 0) (#74)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:17:31 PM EST
    to care about that one.  Since I'm not, I don't.

    And I wouldn't expect it to upset Christian voters, those nice evangelicals stuck with W didn't they?

    Parent

    I only recall W saying God tells him what (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:43:49 PM EST
    to do, not W saying he is the way, the truth, and the light.

    Parent
    in Montana (none / 0) (#71)
    by athyrio on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:13:43 PM EST
    on a very very republican web site that I visit they are talking about Ron Paul launching a bid as an independent....In fact the republicans are at each others throats about it...Hmmmmm...Would that split McCains vote enough to win?? I have no idea....

    Ron Paul's Money (none / 0) (#76)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:18:35 PM EST
    He sure hasn't spent all that internet money on the primaires and it's got to go somewhere.  Wouldn't surprise me at all to see an independent run.

    Parent
    My feminist soul will be broken (none / 0) (#75)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:18:32 PM EST
    if/when America freely gives up the chance to have the first (and most qualified) First Lady-become-Commander-in-Chief.

    As for the rest of my soul, it doesn't need saving.  I don't appreciate Michelle Obama's comments at all...not this one, not the one about being proud of her country for the first time in her adult life...the soundbytes from her just keep getting worse and worse.

    can you imagine if (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:28:38 PM EST
    Jane Fonda had said that "first time I was proud" quote instead of Michelle Obama? No passes would be given.

    Parent
    passes by the media (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:29:05 PM EST
    I meant.

    Parent
    Really, you think so? (none / 0) (#120)
    by BrandingIron on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:50:32 PM EST
    I have an inkling that nothing Fonda does could get her into any deeper trouble than her Hanoi Jane days.  But I could be wrong, today's generation (the prObama kids) don't even know what that was...or even who Jane Fonda is, aside from the legendary actress who made out with Stephen Colbert (press is a different story, of course).

    Parent
    holy crap (none / 0) (#97)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:58:55 PM EST
    the thought send a chill through my heart.  They'd take away her passport.

    Parent
    And the irony is (none / 0) (#137)
    by oldpro on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 08:19:51 PM EST
    Jane has now 'got religion.'

    God figure.

    Parent

    Branding Iron (none / 0) (#84)
    by athyrio on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:32:08 PM EST
    you are absolutely correct in all of your statement and I feel the same way....

    Parent
    Hmm (none / 0) (#83)
    by jarober on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:29:52 PM EST
    If a Republican spouse said such a thing, it would be taken as a sign of the impending theocracy.

    What makes you think this isn't that sign? (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by RalphB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:02:31 PM EST
    I've been saying for a long time that Obama looks to me like Bush with a deeper tan and +100 IQ points.

    Parent
    maybe not (none / 0) (#133)
    by sancho on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:32:40 PM EST
    a hundred. bush is smarter than you think. obama thinks so--that's why he is "copying" bush's election strategy.

    Parent
    I'm not that surprised (none / 0) (#93)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:54:25 PM EST
    considering the religious flyer that went out in SC.  There is definitely some type of religious overtones, especially depending on the audience.

    OT--but I'm watching FOX and the discussion is b/w 1 man and 3 women--I don't think I've ever seen that ratio (regardless of political orientation) at the other cable 'news' outlets.  

    after Shuster was suspended (none / 0) (#98)
    by Kathy on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 02:59:41 PM EST
    they had 3 women on together for 15 minutes.  First and last time, as I recall.

    Parent
    Were all of the women (none / 0) (#126)
    by BDB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:05:54 PM EST
    young and blond and perky?  Because from what I've seen, Fox definitely has a type.  

    Parent
    If Tweets was talking to 3 women (none / 0) (#127)
    by Cream City on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:10:42 PM EST
    at once, I bet he'd get that "tingle up the leg" again that he got from his man-crush on Obama. That would be Tweets' idea of being gender-neutral.  

    Parent
    Your last sentence would seem to support (none / 0) (#111)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:20:48 PM EST
    the thought that her choice of red wine v. white wine or beer, was intentional.

    Why (none / 0) (#113)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:29:53 PM EST
    Because she has time to get a new suit?

    Parent
    Oooh, you know why. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:33:57 PM EST
    Red wine. So Hillary and I do have something in common after all...

    Parent
    Me too. (none / 0) (#115)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:39:18 PM EST
    The life of the red wine drinker is much more fun that that of the Madonna.

    Parent
    Thirded. (none / 0) (#118)
    by lilburro on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:44:40 PM EST
    And I give her credit for not saying her favorite beer is Milwaukee's Best.

    Shiver.

    This is my most patriotic glass of wine ever...

    Parent

    I assume you're ITB? (none / 0) (#119)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:48:47 PM EST


    Parent
    ITB? (none / 0) (#121)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:51:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Sorry, in the biz. Vineyard soil samples and all.. (none / 0) (#122)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:53:05 PM EST


    Parent
    I am in the soil business (none / 0) (#123)
    by coigue on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 03:54:48 PM EST
    but vineyards are just one land use that I examine.

    (Soil Ecologist)

    However, My husband and all my neighbors are ITB of winemaking and selling.

    Parent

    Honorable work, that. (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:18:07 PM EST
    Too bad dismantling our 3 tier alc dist system isn't a campaign issue...

    Parent
    believe it or not (none / 0) (#132)
    by NJDem on Tue Feb 19, 2008 at 04:28:56 PM EST
    one was a brunette--but very attractive nonetheless!

    I laugh every time I get reminded of the ol' "tingle up the leg."  I hope that those rough Philly friends he always talks about bust him endlessly for that line!

    CNN exit polls coming in now...  

    Candidates' Last Minute Pitches to Wisconsin Voters | 134 comments (134 topical)

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