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O'Reilly Holds Off On "Lynching Party" For Michelle Obama

By Big Tent Democrat:

Predictably, I find this statement, via Media Matters, from Bill O'Reilly utterly offensive:

In a discussion of recent comments made by Michelle Obama[,] O'Reilly . . . stated: "I don't want to go on a lynching party against Michelle Obama unless there's evidence, hard facts, that say this is how the woman really feels. . . .

(Emphasis supplied.) Yes, predictably, I find the comment racist and offensive. I am a PC cop.

Predictably, Daily Kos notices.

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    Hum (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:31:19 PM EST
    I dont think its about PC to say you shouldn't use the word lynch about anyone. It has one definition according to M-W:

    to put to death (as by hanging) by mob action without legal sanction

    Obviously it takes on an extra nasty tone, when you talk abuot people, whos ethnicity has a history of being the victims of it.

    I think even tweety would know not to say that.

    What are you trying to say here? (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:34:53 PM EST
    Are you really so bereft that you can not just flat out say it is racist? Why?

    Parent
    I'm saying (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:41:05 PM EST
    it goes beyond racist.  He is talking about murdering someone.  

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:43:48 PM EST
    he evokes the image of murdering African Americans by the method made infamous in the racist South.

    It is ridiculous to think O'Reilly is LITERALLY discussing murder - he is discussing blasting her rhetorically.

    It is the USAGE of that phrase, with ALL of its racist connotations, that is offensive.

    There is not threat of murder.

    Parent

    Kudos for analytical and (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:49:25 PM EST
    calm.  

    My first draft, on the other hand, . . .

    Parent

    So any use in unacceptable.... (1.00 / 1) (#40)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:52:26 PM EST
    Would you go so far as to support legislation banning the use of certain words or phrases?

    Something like this failed proposal.

    Parent

    Um no (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:56:15 PM EST
    Curious that you come to that conclusion.

    Are you SOOO hellbent on being anti-PC that you try to distort my views?

    Why? Do you need racist language for your daily usage or something?

    Parent

    I just like having all of the language.... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:13:01 PM EST
    at our disposal, to use as we see fit.  Is that so terrible? Case in point, I saw Patti Smith perform this song last October....and it was powerfully beautiful.  As a pc cop, I'm guessing you don't see the beauty, only offensiveness.

    I fear if some people had their way portions of our language would be legislated away, or worse criminalized.  Glad to hear you don't support language regulation through legislation...that's a relief.

    Parent

    Why is it (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by spit on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:12:10 PM EST
    that the "anti-PC" people always fall back on "what, are you trying to make it illegal" rhetoric?

    There are a great many things that are perfectly legal to say that are nonetheless offensive and should not be tacitly accepted as part of political discussion.

    Parent

    Re PC speech (none / 0) (#97)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:38:42 PM EST
    It seems to me to be dealing with a symptom rather than the actual problems. Where prejudice leads to differentials in the legal system, or in economic or educational opportunities, that's where the real problem is. If those inequalities don't exist, it's just name calling. Too much emphasis on the easy part over the years (calling out the name calling) at the expense of dealing with the harder real issues is a big part of what has brought liberalism into disrepute with people who otherwise wouldn't really be disposed to oppose what it actually offers.

    There's a line somewhere to be found between discouraging destructive attitudes by quashing them as unacceptable political speech, and not turning off the libertarian-minded who resent limitations on their speech. It would be good if that line can be sorted out a bit better than it has been.

    Parent

    Let me guess (none / 0) (#102)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:41:21 PM EST
    You're a white guy.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#107)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:44:10 PM EST
    If you have a point, make it.

    Parent
    My point (none / 0) (#116)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:49:07 PM EST
    off topic though it is
    is that those prejudices do exist, in the legal and educational systems, and the tolerance of sexist and racist language encourages the perpetuation of those inequalities.

    Forgive me for guessing wrong about your race and/ or sex, but usually people who doubt those barriers exist have never had to face them.

    Parent

    I believe I said that as well (none / 0) (#128)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:56:50 PM EST
    but added that focus on the speech aspects for decades without actually dealing with the inequalities themselves eventually becomes counterproductive for solving the problem of the inequalities.

    Perhaps I didn't make my point clearly.

    Parent

    Perhaps not. (none / 0) (#152)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:13:46 PM EST
    To me, it sounded like you wanted people
    who don't like sexist or racist talk to just
    shut up while waiting for changes in the laws regarding inequality.

    I apologize if I misunderstood you. ;)

    Parent

    Well said Alien.... (none / 0) (#105)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:43:39 PM EST
    Wanna talk about racism?  Forget Bill O'Reilly, lets talk about the criminal justice system.  I see racism there...

    Wanna talk about sexism?  Forget Chris Mathews, lets talk about equal work/equal pay.  I see sexism there...

    Parent

    Please (none / 0) (#144)
    by coigue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:06:31 PM EST
    Wanna talk about those things, you have to talk about language too.

    No one is saying that sexist and racist actions are less important, indeed they are more so.

    But to say that language cannot be sexist or racist is simply wrong.

    And calling people PC cops or whatever is an excuse not to deal with that reality. IN FACT: people who decry racist language have a right and feel an obligation to call it out. More often it is those who whine about "PC police" who are seeking to silence those who call out racism.

    Parent

    Please coigue... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:12:33 PM EST
    Language can be anything and everything or nothing.  Of course it can be racist or sexist.  My point is I don't think it's in the words we choose, but in the meaning we mean to convey.  Maybe it's just me, but my local vernacular contains figures of speech like "lynch mob", "pimpin'", and others some people find offensive.  I'd never in a million years say "let's get a lynch mob together and hang so and so", though I very well might say "see the congressional steroid hearings, they had a real lynch mob going there".

    PC police do exist, they are people who search for offense.  O'Reilly used the term "lynch mob" like I could to describe a congressional hearing.  I see no racism there.

    Parent

    local vernacular or not (none / 0) (#210)
    by coigue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:46:15 PM EST
    the man is in the business of using words, and her used "lynch mob" in reference to Michelle Obama, who is black.

    Was Clarence Thomas using "high class lynching" in the local vernacular?

    Do you really think Bill O'Reilly deserves THIS much benefit of the doubt? Hasn't he proven himself not to be so deserving time and time again?

    Parent

    PS (none / 0) (#211)
    by coigue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM EST
    lynching mob is the vernacular.

    lynching party....is not.

    This is not a matter of hypersensitivity. You are being tone deaf.

    Parent

    nope (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:53:40 PM EST
    if it expresses your intentions, by all means we need to know.

    Parent
    there is only (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:47:38 PM EST
    one definition of lynching, and it has nothing to do with, rhetoric.

    Parent
    Nonsense (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:49:41 PM EST
    You're smarter than that. When Justice Thomas accused the Senate Judiciary Committee of participating in a high-tech lynching, do you think he meant they were trying to murder him?

    Parent
    actually (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:52:51 PM EST
    after hearing Thomas's rantings.  I would say yes.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:57:48 PM EST
    Way to continue enhancing your image in this thread.

    Parent
    and yet no one (none / 0) (#145)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:07:17 PM EST
    was concerned about how Anita Hill was being treated.

    Very good example.

    Parent

    Sorry (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:57:17 PM EST
    But you seem to be not knowledgable in this area.

    It explains alot about your prior attitudes frankly.

    Parent

    I think (none / 0) (#150)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    if you hear how angry Thomas is about that hearing.  the term lynching even when used is a "figure of speech" by a republicans, is meant to convey an absolute destruction of someone.  

    So yeah, I would say that Lynch is a serious word, even if you use it as a figure of speech, the type of destruction you are referring, is so great, and unfair, even if he wasn't talking about an African American, to say you are going to lynch someone, even as a "figure of speech" is not acceptable political discourse.

    Parent

    Who said that? (none / 0) (#175)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:50:48 PM EST
    Who said it was effing acceptable political discourse? I sure didn't. It's unacceptable and that's true without the ridiculous interpretation tha he was calling for her to be murdered. Get a grip.

    Parent
    not just the south (none / 0) (#111)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:45:17 PM EST
    please.  There are monuments in New York City to black men who were lynched in the streets in protest to the Civil War.

    Parent
    I'm not going to defend the remark, (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:45:05 PM EST
    Because it's indefensible, but do you actually think he's suggesting literally murdering her? You're not aware of any other use of the word?

    What he said was horrible. It's really not necessary to interpret it as something that it's not. O'Reilly hoists himself on his own pitard. Not literally, of course.

    Parent

    i don't (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:48:54 PM EST
    know what he actually meant.  But words have meaning, and thats what lynch means.  so if he didn't mean that he should have said something else.

    Parent
    Ever hear of slang? (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:52:04 PM EST
    Ever hear of a "figure of speech".  If the only English you speak/understand is the dictionary version, how do you get through the day without misunderstanding most everything?

    "Gotta run" doesn't mean I have to literally run, it means I have someplace to go.

    "Lynch mob" doesn't mean a literal mob with a noose in hand, it has come to mean any any group of people.

    Parent

    s/b....any group of angry people...n/t (none / 0) (#122)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:52:52 PM EST
    i'm all for figures of speech (none / 0) (#126)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:54:46 PM EST
    that isn't an acceptable one to be used on anyone, much less an African American.

    I gotta run

    i'm sory is different then Lynch mob references.

    Parent

    Man you've posted a lot on this thread. (none / 0) (#135)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:00:43 PM EST
    Are you shackled to your desk slaving away on something? Maybe you should take a break and whip yourself up a latte? What brand do you prefer?

    Parent
    Theres a relationship (none / 0) (#168)
    by jondee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:33:11 PM EST
    between the fairly recent ascension of hamhanded demogogues like O'Reilly, the credibility lent to the battalion of "talk radio" primates and the kind of bovine obtuseness that seems to be on the rise in the U.S.

    Deep down, the Ruperts of the world prefer an ignorant,fearful, rabble -- for as long as they feel they have the means to control and direct it's rage.

    That's where people like O'Moron come in.

    Parent

    hmm... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by mindfulmission on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:33:51 PM EST
    Don Imus got fired for saying something similarly offensive.  And I don't know that I would say that O'Reilly's comment was "less" offensive.

    How does O'Reillly continue to get away with this crap?

    i dont know (4.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:35:02 PM EST
    talking about murdering someone is a bit worse then calling someone a nappy headed hoe.

    Parent
    true (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by mindfulmission on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:42:38 PM EST
    Don't get me wrong - I wasn't saying that the comment was better than Imus's.  I think that O'Reilly's comment was at least as bad, if not worse.

    Parent
    What O'Reilly Really Meant... (none / 0) (#35)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:51:11 PM EST
    Hey it works and we can even keep the same acronym.

    Parent
    Not to O'Reilly viewrs (none / 0) (#63)
    by Prabhata on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:00:43 PM EST
    Hoe is a bad word.  Murder is not bad.  It's also true that the same viewers accept violence but not nudity.  It's an American code.

    Parent
    Because he is profitable.... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:42:26 PM EST
    controversy sells.

    Parent
    of course it's offensive (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:44:13 PM EST


    I am disturbed by how many people defend (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by my opinion on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:39:00 PM EST
    racism and sexism. Sad commentary on this country.

    O'Reilly comments (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by kylibrarian on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:31:26 PM EST
    Wonder if Obama supporter Oprah will stop having O'Reilly on as a guest? She's given him a free ride to talk in the past.
    Understandably, Obama was overjoyed by her endorsement, but Oprah is not a liberal or a progressive; not sure Obama supporters realize the implications of her support. She's always despised the Clintons, fawned over Laura Bush, and was cool to the Kerrys. Until very recently, she was cold to Al Gore.

    I dunno about this (none / 0) (#171)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:37:38 PM EST
    I'm not wild about Oprah swinging her support to Obama, but she has had both Clintons on her show many times.  Bill Clinton was on a handful of months ago and they seemed to be getting along fine.

    Parent
    Appalling (4.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Lena on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:51:46 PM EST
    Even though I've stood by and watched bitterly as the left wing justified and excused and explained away all the sexism hurled at HRC ... I still can't let something like this stand, as much as I dream of Obama being left to stew in the same bile as HRC has had to endure from the prejudiced media and the right wing.

    It's wrong when done against HRC. It's wrong when done against the Obamas. And all those left wing bloggers out there taking O'Reilley to task should question why they can tolerate racism but not sexism.

    justified? (none / 0) (#87)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:23:33 PM EST
    C'mon.  It is just not true that "the left wing justified and excused and explained away all the sexism hurled at HRC".

    Most were appalled by it.

    Up above, where BTD noted Glenn Greenwald's silence on the issue, I listed references to Greenwald.  He was not silent on the issue.  Niether was MediaMatters.  Neither were a whole bunch of folks.  And while I see that TPM and DKos are quite out of favor here, they did criticize the "sexism crap hurled at HRC."  In no way did they justify it.

    Parent

    No they stood by and did nothing and that (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:07:34 PM EST
    was cowardly so don't expect for any of us who are solidly pro-Clinton to feel sorry for you if the media doesn't pick this up and cause an outrage.

    Parent
    Media Matters was not (none / 0) (#90)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:25:35 PM EST
    Indeed, Media Matters and this site were quite lonely on this.

    Please link me to Greenwald's posts on the matter.

    Parent

    Greenwald (none / 0) (#95)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:30:42 PM EST
    is it ok if I just refer you to comment #80, below, where I provide links to three articles

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#118)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:50:39 PM EST
    Not to the point frankly.

    Parent
    and o'reilly isn't even (3.00 / 2) (#6)
    by cpinva on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:34:11 PM EST
    the best of the right-wing smear machine. i guarantee, obama will be a throbbing pile o' pudding come nov.

    he is why they were licking their chops, hoping against hope that the democrats would be dumb enough to nominate him and not sen. clinton. it appears, absent a minor miracle, they'll get their wish.

    i've stated before, i like sen. obama, on an intellectual level. realistically, he'll be 2008's democratic sacrificial lamb; an innocent slaughtered on the bloody altar of the GE. 12% does not a winner make.

    be prepared BTD, to spend months making posts like this, should sen. obama be the democratic nominee.

    Uh (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Claw on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:46:24 PM EST
    If the spin machine's comments run along the lines of "let's not lynch her 'till we're good and ready," Obama will win in a landslide.  He also is polling better than Clinton against McCain, right?  
    I'm not sure I understand all the handwringing on the Clinton side that Obama won't be able to stand up to the repubs.

    Parent
    I expect to (4.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:37:14 PM EST
    My colleagues in the blogs have sort of lost their credibility on this issue - they malignly accepted sexism and misogyny directed at Clinton.

    Today Josdh Marshall has the temerity to complain about the Media coverage about the plagiarism issue. Poooor Obama is getting treated unfairly!!!!!

    Sorry Josh, you lost all credibility as a Media critic long ago now.

    You are rightly perceived as an Obama supporter and your criticism will be viewed in this manner.

    Leave it to those of us who retained are credibility.

    Parent

    Credibility (1.00 / 1) (#60)
    by plf1953 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:59:42 PM EST
    Here here, BTD!

    Seriously, you seem to stand alone at the moment and we (even us usual lurkers) appreciate you for it.

    Thanks.

    Parent

    Taylor Marsh (none / 0) (#184)
    by tek on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:53:15 PM EST
    has the whole article and clip up. Actually, what Michelle Obama said was irresponsible and offensive. She is saying that she was never proud of her country until the possibility of a black man running it became real. Like all the people who got out and worked for civil rights are just chaffe, etc. The Great Society is nothing, the appointments of AAs in Cabinets was of no account.

    If he is president, we can all expect a lot more of this.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#186)
    by tek on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:54:56 PM EST
    and 50,000 Americans dying in the Civil War so Africans could be freed is of no consequence, I guess. It's just an irresponsible remark. And Barack Obama made it worse by repeating the same charge in her defense.

    Parent
    be offended all you want, (1.00 / 1) (#170)
    by cpinva on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:36:30 PM EST
    it's your right. however, that doesn't change the facts, sen. obama will not get a majority of the white vote, period. especially in the south, where racism simmers underneath the surface calm.

    i happen to be a white male myself, and i assumed (foolishly as it turns out) that no one on here would be stupid enough to think i was saying the good sen. would only get the votes of the 12% of AA's in the country. get a brain.

    he'll get a % of white votes, probably mostly female and young males. he will not get the votes of most white males over the age of 40, in most parts of the country. he especially won't get blue collar white male votes, bet the rent money on it.

    all those black folks who have so far refused to show up at the polls b/c the candidates didn't look like them, didn't know their situation, didn't really care about them, etc. will register AND show up in massive numbers in November.

    and the "massive numbers" will still be puny, by comparison to the white votes. sorry to inject facts into your fantasy, but that's pretty much just the way it is.

    by the time the right-wing smear machine jacks up the "fear o' the black male in power" theme in the south, all those states will be..................red, come nov. again, bet the rent money on it.


    Parent

    please do not paint the south (none / 0) (#172)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:39:22 PM EST
    with that brush.  Racism is an AMERICAN problem, not just a southern one.  Watts and Harlem are not in the south.

    Parent
    i ahve some faith in the american (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:36:24 PM EST
    public.  Call me naive, but i think when you talk about murdering a presidential candidates wife.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:54:26 PM EST
    I apologize for overlooking it before.

    Parent
    Do you really not realize (none / 0) (#48)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:54:35 PM EST
    that your first paragraph is entirely contradicted by the rest of your paragraphs?  That you are making exactly the assertion that you call out as offensive?  

    Parent
    That is also true (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:59:16 PM EST
    buuut let me say that I DO distinguish between the two - whites voting AGAINST Obama due to his being an A-A is NOT the same as A-As pridefully voting FOR him because he is A-A.

    Parent
    Yes, but not what the poster said (nt) (none / 0) (#108)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:44:11 PM EST
    oh, my friend (none / 0) (#166)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:27:39 PM EST
    You are very wrong about the south.  Don't think for a minute that they will swing blue anytime soon--not with McCain at the top of the red team.

    Parent
    I live in Atlanta (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 07:01:31 PM EST
    (Va-Hi) the third gayest city in America. I am closer to 40 than I admit to strangers and I have enough college degrees to prop open both the front and back door in the Fall when it's cool out. And I don't give a high-hooey about religion and think it's fine for individuals, but sucks for governments.  As to clubs, no-I don't hang out at clubs.  Do you mean Atlantic Station or the Three Legged Cowboy?  Or maybe you mean Brushstrokes?  Because I think you'll find a vast difference between the clientele, though I would hardly hang my political predictions based on what I hear at any of them.  

    I also divide my time between Atlanta and the mountains (you know, those large swaths of the state where Clinton cleaned up?)  There are pics of me as a child working on Carter's campaign while I sat on my daddy's knee (my daddy then being one of the top ten democrats in the state party and a delegate to the convention where Carter was given the nom)  Further, I worked in the GA dem party for 10 years straight out of school trying to shore up rural democrats.  

    There are around 9 million people living in this state.  30% are black--and that is overall, not just voting age.  We have a republican governor and all of our local politics outside Atlanta are controlled by republicans.  In rural areas, we have poor people voting republican--against their own financial interests--because they do not want their daughters to grow up to be lesbian abortionists.  We have people posting the ten commandments in their yards and our fair share of military bases, all of whom will go for McCain faster than a blue tick hound on a sparrow.

    So, I stand by my prediction and repeat it here: if you think that the south will switch blue against McCain because of Obama, then you are sadly mistaken.

    I will add this that of course you know people like you, honey.  We don't tend to hang around with people who are NOT like us.   It is called human nature and we'll see it play out pretty evenly come the ge when McCain sweeps up the south.

    Parent

    I hope you don't trip (none / 0) (#225)
    by Kathy on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 01:09:39 PM EST
    come November, when your rose-colored glasses are ripped off.

    Parent
    Hilarious... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Jim J on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:48:01 PM EST
    That you think downtown Atlanta is at all representative of the rest of Georgia.

    Parent
    Speaking of racism.... (none / 0) (#185)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:54:18 PM EST
    let's hope all the new black voters are not shut out of the polls by racist voter disenfranchisement laws.

    In, ya know, the real world, not the "no spin zone":)

    Parent

    I can't stand O'Reilly (1.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Tano on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:35:29 PM EST
    and I usually jump on any chance to criticize him.

    I guess I will have to check out the context, but on face value, doesnt this strike you as a hard-edged slap at the Republicans? I mean, he is accusing THEM of mounting a lynch party against her - one he is not prepared to join. He is implying that they are being racist.

    Now that might not be a true charge - they are probably just playing their patriotism card, but i dont quite see how it make Billo a racist.

    And why the heck are you proud of being a member of the thought-police?

    Heh! (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:38:12 PM EST
    Yes, that is an attack on the GOP. Boy oh boy. you are something.

    Parent
    c'mon BTD (none / 0) (#55)
    by Tano on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    I am trying to ask a serious question here. Instead of a snarky one liner, please explain to me why you interpreted this differently than I did.

    It seems pretty clear to me that he is calling the attacks on her a lynch party. No?

    Lynch parties are carried out by racists, right?

    And that he doesnt want to join it, at least not yet, Right?

    So, please explain - how do you interpret this differently than I did?

    Parent

    It seems pretty clear to me (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:00:24 PM EST
    that he is not.

    That he is DESCRIBING his own THEORETICAL holding of rhetorical fire until he has the goods and THEN HE will rhetorically lead a lynching party.

    Parent

    Now that the Teamsters have endorsed (none / 0) (#69)
    by scribe on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:05:00 PM EST
    Obama, maybe a couple of them can get a straight answer out of Bill-o.

    Last I heard, a good portion of the theatrical/TV/stage people who do the actual grunt work of getting shows on air (if they aren't represented by IATSE or similar unions) are represented by the Teamsters.

    A nice little wildcat strike over at Faux (or even just missing their garbage collection for a while) would, IMHO, make a nice point.

    Parent

    Oh, garbage collection. (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:11:05 PM EST
    I was thinking of Jimmy Hoffa.

    Parent
    What good are endorsements (none / 0) (#153)
    by scribe on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:14:36 PM EST
    if you don't get something out of them besides talk?

    Parent
    The teamsters drive the trucks. (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:18:56 PM EST
    The trucks carry the equipment, food, talent, etc.

    No trucks, no shows.

    Parent

    That's just the start of what they (none / 0) (#174)
    by scribe on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:42:51 PM EST
    do, SUO, and I'm sure you know that.  And they are stereotypically the kind of guys who get listened to when they speak, and missed when they don't show up for work.

    Parent
    and work out the logistics/mechanics therein.

    Sure, the teamsters may also represent animal wranglers and casting directors among a very few others, but they're a small minority and have comparatively little to nothing to do with B O'R's show or any Fox News show.

    W/o the teamsters and the trucks, equipment, etc., there is no show. This is in support of your statement. I'm not sure why you seem to be quibbling with me.

    Although, since you've chosen to make me think more about it, since these talking-head news programs are generally produced on stage and are almost completely self-contained compared to a feature or TV show that's shooting in numerous locations, in fact a teamster's strike may not directly shut down a news show.

    Parent

    a friend of mine is a teamster (none / 0) (#199)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 07:47:58 PM EST
    she had some leadership position, she's a funeral director.

    Parent
    teamsters in the entertainment industry, especially w/respect to Fox News production...

    Parent
    I find that a bit hard to believe (none / 0) (#79)
    by Tano on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:14:19 PM EST
    Billo may be a racist, but he is not that stupid.

    If he thought that Michelle really meant what it sounded like she said - if he thought he really had the goods on her, do you think he would say - "this is outrageous, I am going to launch a (rhetorical) lynch party against her".

    I really doubt he would say that. And he is speaking now in the context of a major effort by others to go after her,

    Y'know, leaving aside whether your reading or my reading is more accurate, it really strikes me as foolish for us to push your line. Why not broadcast my interpretation. O'Reilly is calling the Republicans racist! Turn them against eachother. His only possible defense would be to say, no! - BTD's interpretation is right - its me who is the racist. He couldn't do that, so he is in a box. And we score some points vs. the GOP.

    Think of the bigger picture here - its not Billo who is the ultimate enemy, it is the GOP.

    Parent

    Actually he did say that (none / 0) (#83)
    by rebecca on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:19:06 PM EST
    Billo may be a racist, but he is not that stupid.

    If he thought that Michelle really meant what it sounded like she said - if he thought he really had the goods on her, do you think he would say - "this is outrageous, I am going to launch a (rhetorical) lynch party against her".

    "I don't want to go on a lynching party against Michelle Obama unless there's evidence, hard facts, that say this is how the woman really feels. If that's how she really feels -- that America is a bad country or a flawed nation, whatever -- then that's legit. We'll track it down."

    You might want to follow the links before trying to argue the point.  

    Parent

    A Slap at the GOP?! (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:54:21 PM EST
    Yeah, right.  
    Now we're getting "What O'Reilly Really Meant."

    Bill made a racist remark, pure and simple.
    Have you forgotten his amazement at black people
    dining in a civilized manner at Sylvia's in Harlem?
    Please.

    Parent

    excuse me (none / 0) (#62)
    by Tano on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:00:33 PM EST
    I did not argue that Billo's comments in Harlem were not racist, nor that he is not a racist.

    I am asking a sincere question about this particular comment, and why it is that people here seem to be interpreting it in a manner that seems at odds with a clear and simple reading of it.

    It seems that you are the one who is playing the "what Billo really meant".

    And to reiterate - I can't stand the guy, and would usually join in any effort to call him any nasty name. I just dont see what you guys are getting at with this particular comment.

    Parent

    Okay (none / 0) (#70)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:05:13 PM EST
    I agree with BTD's post above, that Bill is merely postponing holding a lynching party, not condemning the idea of holding a lynching party.


    Parent
    Really (none / 0) (#187)
    by tek on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:57:27 PM EST
    I don't know why anyone pays attention to O'Reilly.

    Parent
    Police and Thieves.... (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:36:57 PM EST
    Police and thieves in the streets

    Oh yeah!

    Scaring the nation with their guns and ammunition

    - Junior Murvin/Lee Perry

    PC Police and Controversy Salesman in the streets, distracting the nation with their oral ammunition.  

    Yes indeed (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:38:48 PM EST
    We are a menace we PC police.

    Parent
    Not a menace.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:44:54 PM EST
    at least not yet, but a distraction, to be sure.

    Now if legislation is passed restricting the use of the words "pimp", "lynch", "claws", etc...then you PC cops would be a menace.

    Parent

    Ignore us (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:46:35 PM EST
    if you wish.

    Seems like you want to shut us up.

    Parent

    Some counter-point.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:21:27 PM EST
    is needed in the echo chamber.

    I'd never try to silence anybody...you guys are the silencers.  Criticize what Bill was saying, criticize his word choices, write letters to Fox....these are your rights.  Just don't say "you can't say that".  Or label certain words and phrases "offensive" while ignoring the context.

    Parent

    What context (none / 0) (#91)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:26:13 PM EST
    would that be?
    I don't understand what you mean.

    Parent
    Look at O'Reilly's whole statement... (none / 0) (#101)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    what does "lynch mob" mean in the context of the whole statement?  

    A) Pack of racist murderers looking to hang Michelle Obama.

    B) Pack of angry people looking to make Michelle Obama out to be unpatriotic.

    That's what I mean.  The PC police have their ears open for offensive words and phrases regardless of the context. They hear "lynch mob" and cry racism, or "pimp" and cry sexism...and pay no attention to the context or meaning, which may or may not be racist/sexist.

    Tipper Gore is to music what BTD is to the media.  They only care about words...I care about meaning.  

    Parent

    You go with that one (none / 0) (#123)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    A lynch mob means nothing racial. Of course you are right.

    Parent
    I will.... (none / 0) (#130)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:58:16 PM EST
    you PC cops could be called a lynch mob.

    Parent
    proves my point (none / 0) (#146)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:07:17 PM EST
    even when it isn't a reference to an African American.  it is a highly offensive term, that has no place in political dialog, weather you use it about Michelle or anyone else, and especially so if the person is African American.

    Parent
    and you are deaf to common decency (none / 0) (#138)
    by coigue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:02:31 PM EST
    Perhaps deaf.... (none / 0) (#193)
    by kdog on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:33:00 PM EST
    but not dumb or blind to it.  

    Wanna talk about indecent?  Got any friends rotting in jail who harmed no one, going on 5 f*ckin' years?  Another black man down.

    1.4 million black americans disenfranchised, some for their whole lives.  Where is the common decency in that?

    Now tell me again what O'Reilly's choice in figure of speech has to do with the real racism we aren't talking about.

    Parent

    I think calling out offensive language (none / 0) (#143)
    by lilburro on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:06:18 PM EST
    is of vital importance.  Abuse of power happens on many levels, and the level of language, particularly broadcast language, is an important one.  

    Parent
    I do have to add (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:48:14 PM EST
    but I'm not running to their defense or anything, the Obama's have left themselves to fight these battles on their own.  It's a shame but that's how I feel after their silence against accusations of the Clintons being racist and the sexism in the media.

    There is a poem that I've often seen at Holocaust memorials, I don't know that attribution or exactly how it goes, but it's about they came for the lawyers and I did not speak because it had nothing to do with me, they came for the xyz and I did not speak and so on and so forth, until they came for me and no one spoke because there was no one left to speak for me.

    hum (1.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:50:24 PM EST
    thats funny you fit into your own Nazi Poem then.  Nice way to implicate yourself.

    Parent
    Are you not kidding? (1.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:52:24 PM EST
    Please tell me you don't mean what you just wrote.

    Please ask me to delete your comment.

    Parent

    it is an anti nazi (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:55:48 PM EST
    poem about not doing anything.  he is using it as an excuse to not do anything.  the poem would thus implicate the poster as well.

    Parent
    sorry (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:56:48 PM EST
    but that poem implicates the poster.  why am i terrible for pointing it out?

    Parent
    No (3.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:03:53 PM EST
    You are mistaken about the significance of the poem.

    You need to think before you write.

    Parent

    i just re read (none / 0) (#110)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:44:49 PM EST
    it. still see it the same way.


    Parent
    Jgarza (none / 0) (#121)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:52:44 PM EST
    You are not this obtuse.  Read the poem below.  What it is talking about is inaction, and in this case, it applies very well to this post because the general consensus thus far in this election has been to let sexism and misogyny go by, and now that it's morphed into racism, it's too late.  

    First They Came for the Jews

    First they came for the Jews
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a Jew.
    Then they came for the Communists
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a Communist.
    Then they came for the trade unionists
    and I did not speak out
    because I was not a trade unionist.
    Then they came for me
    and there was no one left
    to speak out for me.
    Pastor Martin Niemöller


    Parent

    yes (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:57:11 PM EST
    and for a person to say that, that is an excuse to let them Obamas get trashed, fits in.

    It is using a poem that condemns inaction as an excuse not to act.  


    Parent

    Jgarza (3.66 / 3) (#140)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:03:49 PM EST
    I truly don't remember: where did you fall on the whole "pimped out" issue and the myriad other sexist remarks launched at Clinton?  Were you just as outraged?  Did you leap to her defense?  Did you call MSNBC and write letters to their advertisers?

    Having listened to all the crap lobbed at Clinton, while the majority of folks out there just let it roll on, perhaps I am low on outrage at this point, too.  It is almost like I have become anesthetized.  My first response to this was, "of course Bill O'Reily said something like this.  Are we shocked?"  It doesn't mean that I think it's right, it just means that I am to the point where I think, "One more thing..."

    And it saddens me immensely to see the left blogosphere jumping to Michelle Obama's defense and using their power to fight the ignorant media when they did very little to aid Clinton, and in fact jumped on the bandwagon at times.

    Parent

    my response (none / 0) (#159)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:20:39 PM EST
    i said it was a terrible statement, and he should apologize.  which he did.

    Now I said that calling for him to be fired, and going after hhim apologized was taking it to far, because Shuster didn't have a reputation of doing things like that.

    now because this came from O'Reily, I think he should be fired, and heavily condemned even if he apologizes.  If Anderson Cooper had done it an apology would be fine.

    Parent

    correction (none / 0) (#161)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:22:37 PM EST
    and going after him apologized was taking it to far

    should read:

    and going after him after he apologized was taking it to far


    Parent
    I truly never listen to the windbag (none / 0) (#162)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:24:23 PM EST
    but I am not under the impression that O'Reily has a reputation for making racist remarks.  

    Parent
    For once, will you research what you say? (none / 0) (#188)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:09:11 PM EST
    As Shuster does have a history of problems, had to apologize on air to a Congresswoman last fall, etc. -- and that has been written about here.  That's just for starters with your stuff, but I'm worn out with you.

    Parent
    thats the problem (none / 0) (#165)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:25:11 PM EST
    And it saddens me immensely to see the left blogosphere jumping to Michelle Obama's defense and using their power to fight the ignorant media when they did very little to aid Clinton, and in fact jumped on the bandwagon at times.

    You think that this is somehow equivalent to Obama saying claws.  

    Parent

    I don't recall mentioning claws (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:35:57 PM EST
    I said that it is a preponderance of sexism and misogyny stacking up over the last two months that has anesthetized me against some idiot like Bill O'Reilly shooting his mouth off.

    It's the "I hate her!  I hate her!  I hate her!" the "pimped out" daughter.  MoDo getting away with her bullsh*t, HuffPo writing headlines that scream about her "coldness" Time magazine calling Clinton "frigid" and the fact that Tim Russert, the windbag king of Misogynopia, keeps referring to Obama's "coalition" and Clinton's "campaign."

    Kos et al not only ignored this, they drummed up the "hysteria" rumor and did things like insist that Clinton was not, in fact, insulted that her daughter had been likened to a streetwalker, but that she was using it for political gain.  I had to listen to days and days of "what he really meant" and (insultingly enough) "You don't understand that a 40-something white man uses "pimp" in the slang of the street.  Yo, ya dig?

    All that pales in comparison to Bill O'Reilly making a "lynching" remark?

    Is sexism more acceptable than racism?  Is that what you are saying?

    Because that is all I keep hearing all over the blogosphere-from both left and right.  It's perfectly fine to say something blatantly derogatory about Hillary Clinton, but Lord help us if anyone goes near The Great One or Mrs Great One.  THEN it's a problem.  THEN it's an issue.  TL is a lonely voice in the storm for this very reason.  Taylor Marsh gets hate mail calling her a c*nt for this very reason.  No Quarter got banned from Kos for this very reason.

    Is it okay to be racist?  No--never.  But I think my apathy at this point is understandable.  Why should I rush to Obama's defense and "do the right thing" when all we've heard from his camp is "you're likable enough"?  I am flat out of outrage right now, so you'll just have to excuse me.


    Parent

    i am posting this to aaron. (none / 0) (#219)
    by hellothere on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 11:37:57 PM EST
    please stop posting 1's because you don't like the post. please read the rules regarding

    Parent
    i am posting this to aaron. (none / 0) (#220)
    by hellothere on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 11:38:32 PM EST
    please stop posting 1's because you don't like the post. please read the rules regarding

    Parent
    So the point really is that (3.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:03:32 PM EST
    the Obamas would do well to have read that poem, too.  Take it up with them.  This is not the day to demand that Clinton supporters leap to their defense.  But we're strong, so try again tomorrow.

    Parent
    thats right Obama (1.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:50:59 PM EST
    said claws, his wife deserves this.

    Parent
    you are beyond the pale (none / 0) (#180)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:08:04 PM EST
    I am finished trying to explain.

    Parent
    Thanks, Kathy -- as I did not use (none / 0) (#212)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 09:49:10 PM EST
    the term "claws," nor say that anyone deserves the likes of Bill O on their case, etc.  This poster just seems to want to mix it up, stalk, and state stuff that isn't there.

    Of course, next we'll here that "beyond the Pale" means you're anti-Semitic because of its historial derivation, huh?:-)

    Parent

    thanks kathy (none / 0) (#200)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 07:50:12 PM EST
    just got home and saw your post!  I wish I had done the research, but I was at work when I put mine up.  

    Parent
    lets see (none / 0) (#114)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:47:08 PM EST
    but I'm not running to their defense or anything, the Obama's have left themselves to fight these battles on their own.

    This statement isn't ironic when it is followed by a poem talking about not speaking up when someone is attacked?

    Parent

    you mean my comment? (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:55:33 PM EST
    you can delete it if you want.  I think it's important for you to call out people on their racist bull but I'm not feeling very pc right now.  You're a bigger man then me and that's why you should be doing what you are doing and I'm just commenting (and venting)

    Parent
    the response to you (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:01:13 PM EST
    Not yours. I want to wait for an explanation before I comment further.

    Parent
    so know being sad (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:57:50 PM EST
    Hillary lost is an excuse for saying you dont care that people are talking about lynching Michelle Obama.  And you want to delete my comment?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#68)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:04:24 PM EST
    you misunderstood the reference.

    Parent
    lets see (none / 0) (#115)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:48:37 PM EST
    really i misunder stood.  seems like pretty clear statement

    I'm not running to their defense
     

    the Obama's have left themselves to fight these battles on their own.


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#119)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:51:43 PM EST
    You did misunderstand the reference to the poem referenced.

    Parent
    the person said (none / 0) (#133)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:00:00 PM EST
    that the Obamas are getting what they deserve because of perceived sexism toward Clinton.

    It is saying I won't speak up because person x didn't speak up.

    Not to mention comparing the term lynch mob to "claws coming out," or talking about emotions, is absolutely  out of touch.

    Parent

    i'm obviously not good at where to post replys (none / 0) (#201)
    by nycvoter on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 07:56:05 PM EST
    but I'll try.  I absolutely do not believe that they deserve this.  O'Reily is a racist, sexist bigot etc.  The Obamas, great civil rights leaders or any minority does not bring racism on themselves and do not deserve it at all.  The rest of my comment stands as it is for my feelings at the moment.  

    Parent
    Maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist but... (1.00 / 1) (#156)
    by cmugirl on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:16:26 PM EST
    ...my guess is that he planned this all along.  It takes the story of her actual comments off the front page, people feel sorry for her that bib bad Bill O is picking on her, and voila!  Rumors are that the Republicans would rather run against Obama than Clinton, so if this is something that could damage him, well, we can't have that, can we?

    MO (none / 0) (#177)
    by cmugirl on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:58:40 PM EST
    My point was that many R's WANT to run against Obama as they feel he would be easier to beat him in the general.  In fact, they are being encouraged in states like TX to cross party lines and vote for Obama for that reason.

    (FWIW I can't stand Michelle O) but I still think this comment by Bill O was intentional, even if it was extremely offensive.

    Parent

    Everytime I see O'Reilly (none / 0) (#1)
    by lisadawn82 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:29:00 PM EST
    All I can think of is
    Stupid is as Stupid does.


    Glenn Greenwald (none / 0) (#3)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:32:11 PM EST
    has a nice (well, disgusting) summary of the RW Noice Machine revving up (and the above comments are included).

    FWIW, Michelle, apparently, was talking about political life in America.  Not America.

    But, no matter.  Already there are "whispers" that his parents may have been Communists, and that his mother may have even been a Jew (horrors!)  (No matter that this contradicts the Hussein/Muslim meme, who says you need to be consistent when you're spewing from the gutter?).

    Put on yer' seatbelts, folks, it's gonna be an interesting ride.

    Sorry (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:34:00 PM EST
    Trying to spin that statement is a loser.

    Just say she misspoke and NOW say how you have always been proud of America.

    The Obama campa will give this thing legs if they do not just bite the bullet.

    Same on public finance.

    BTW, both you and I are off topic here.

    Parent

    That column makes me angry (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:41:46 PM EST
    Glenn writes:

    there probably aren't very many priorities more important than cleansing our political process of this type of dirt and petty distraction . ..

    Where was Glenn when this crap was flung at the Clintons?

    That line make me furious.

    Parent

    Furious at Greenwald? (none / 0) (#80)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:14:47 PM EST
    Unlike many blogs, he only writes about one topic per day.  He's got his hands full.  He's mostly been focused on FISA (for good reason) lately.

    Nevertheless

    • here he calls out many media folks, in particular Joe Klein, for their attacks on the Clintons during Bill's presidency.

    • here he critizes Kristol et al for their bashing of Clinton

    • he devotes an entire column criticizing the petulant and immature media in an article called Hillary and the Mean Kids on the Bus

    And that's just within the past 6 weeks or so

    Parent
    Nothing on the sexism (none / 0) (#93)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:30:14 PM EST
    Just as I thought.

    Parent
    Greenwald (none / 0) (#82)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:17:51 PM EST
    To be fair, he has criticized the herd-like negative press coverage of Clinton in the past.  For example, here.

    Parent
    N othing on the sexism (none / 0) (#94)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:30:38 PM EST
    as I recalled.

    Parent
    You're switching complaints! (none / 0) (#104)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:41:44 PM EST
    Just earlier, you said:

    Glenn writes:
       there probably aren't very many priorities more important than cleansing our political process of this type of dirt and petty distraction . ..

    Where was Glenn when this crap was flung at the Clintons?

    So, I just came up with three posts where he criticized "the crap that was flung at the Clintons."  That's exactly what you were asking for.

    Now, you're saying that it's not good enough, that he had to criticize, specifically, the sexism.

    Nevertheless, I think that gender clearly is part of what he's complaining about, when he says, e.g.,

    But in contrast to George the Popular Jock to whom they're grateful for any attention, Hillary is the overly competitive, know-it-all girl at the front of the class with all the answers, and so instead of acting like professionals and just treating like her like a candidate running for President, and taking the opportunity to ask questions when she entered the bus, they instead band together like they're in eighth grade and give the mean, unpopular girl the cold shoulder.

    Later he characterized the press as having the view that

    Hillary is the cold, frigid ex-girlfriend they all want to avoid.


    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#127)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:55:02 PM EST
    I see nothing on NBC referenced where the explicit sexism came up.

    glenn is a good guy but I do not recall his voice.

    Josh was really bad of course.

    Parent

    Fish in a barrel (none / 0) (#9)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:35:10 PM EST

    Calling out Oh Really! for being a stupid blowhard is not necessary.  He is the modern definition of stupid blowhard, IMO.
     

    And (none / 0) (#17)
    by Claw on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    To think that I thought nothing about O'Reilly could shock me.

    FTR (none / 0) (#33)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    A golf magazine editor was recently fired for making allusions to lynching Tiger Woods.  

    It was a really stupid phrase for O'Reilly to use.  I don't think he was being racist, per se.

    not racist (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:51:46 PM EST
    yeah i know he just wants to hang Michelle Obama.  Murder is so much more acceptable when don't see it through race!

    Parent
    Your dichotomy is so unnecessary (none / 0) (#103)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:41:36 PM EST
    or isn't it possible for there to be a racist murder?

    Parent
    i'm not (none / 0) (#136)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:01:13 PM EST
    saying it isn't racist, but even if it wasn't it isn't an acceptable term.

    Parent
    would it be the same to you (none / 0) (#148)
    by coigue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:08:03 PM EST
    if someone left a toy gun in her mailbox or if someone left a noose?

    Both are violent, but does one carry added meaning within the context of American history?

    Parent

    Per se? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 02:53:04 PM EST
    How was he being racist then?

    I am curious what you mean by that.

    Parent

    Not sure (none / 0) (#196)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 06:59:00 PM EST
    if you are still following this.  

    When it comes to implied racism I am somewhat reluctant to assume I know the truth.  

    There are several possible reasons why he used the phrase lynching.

    1. He is a racist who wanted to conjure up very sinister imagery

    2. He is a sensationalist who knows that using that phrase, in this context, will create shock.

    3. He is an idiot that didn't even think about the of the connection of racism and lynchings.

    The problem when it comes to Bill O'Reilly is that all 3 are possibilities or any number of combinations.

    Parent
    Hyperbole (none / 0) (#66)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:03:39 PM EST
    Everyone "BLASTS" everyone else.  Just to express a disagreement, one must nullify the other's existence.  It's metaphorical of course, to a certain degree, it ratchets up the importance of an issue that is typically insignificant.

    Of course there's no racial component to "blasting" someone.

    Choice of words is telling and on purpose as far as O'Reilly is concerned.

    Simply put though, just to address a lingering concern, the word "lynch" itself is not as ethnocentric as "nappy headed hoes".

    Lynch mob was used to describe Saddam Hussein's execution many times.

    That's one of the reasons why O'Reilly will get away with this.


    I strongly disagree (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:05:57 PM EST
    lynching party is very clear in its racial connotation.

    Parent
    Of Course (none / 0) (#86)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:23:20 PM EST
    I'm just pointing out how the terms "lynching party" and "nappy headed hoes" are different, how they function differently given the topic at hand.

    One is absolutely inextricably tied to the topic of race.

    Again, I can say, "the execution of Saddam Hussein looked like a lynching party" without being racist.

    I can't say "nappy headed hoes" in any context whatsoever without being racist.


    Parent

    though, oddly enough (none / 0) (#125)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:54:31 PM EST
    historically, more white people have been lynched than blacks.

    One of those crazy statistics, like the fact that Hitler used the guillotine more than the French did.

    Parent

    Lynching DEFINATELY (none / 0) (#142)
    by PlayInPeoria on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:04:14 PM EST
    has racial tones...

    Nationally, lynching grew each year from 1866 through the 1880s, peaked in 1892, and gradually declined, except for an upsurge during the Red Scare of 1919-20. By 1900 the punishment was reserved almost exclusively for blacks. From 1889 through 1918 mobs lynched 129 persons in the Midwest, 9 in New England, and 2,915 in the South and Border South. The nation reached a total of 3,587 by 1930.


    Parent
    Joseph Smith was lynched. (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:13:19 PM EST
    But, O'Reilly chose this word to apply to a black woman.  

    Parent
    I Know (none / 0) (#89)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:24:49 PM EST
    But nobody could have called Joseph Smith's daughter a "nappy headed hoe."


    Parent
    Shot actually; (none / 0) (#100)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:40:04 PM EST
    and I would like to see an explanation of how "lynching" is not racial.

    Parent
    Leo Frank? (none / 0) (#112)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:46:11 PM EST
    Many people refer to an incident called "The Lynching of Leo Frank."  Granted, Frank was Jewish, but his race was white.

    Lynching often simply refers to a group/mob grabbing somebody and killing them.  Sometimes, irrespective of race.

    In other words, it usually has racial overtones, but not always.

    Parent

    Historical context is crucial and (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:00:15 PM EST
    at the time, Jews were commonly called a "race."  Before that, the Irish were commonly called a "race" -- and some were lynched, too.  Lynching actually is most often associated with racialized murder; it's just that our society has a history of racializing "others," of even needing to do so, so there were and are ever-changing boundaries between whites and the "other" of each era.

    It is why, as brilliant AA philosophers have said, there is not what was called a "Negro problem" in this country.  It is and always has been the "whites' problem" -- so it is not for AAs but for us to solve.  And the first step is to turn inward to face why we have needed, throughout our history, to find a so-called "inferior race" to bolster our so-called "superiority."  I.e., Freud would have a field day psychoanalyzing our society.

    (Btw, more relevant, in the case of Michelle Obama, might be to point out to Bill O. that women rarely were lynched.  They were subjected to other abuse and torture, because they were considered less physically threatening, more valuable -- for reasons I will not delve into here -- but which expose even more about the horrors of slavery and how it was differently experienced due to gender, and especially for women in the era after importation ended.  And what it said about white men . . . well, I'll stop on this topic now before clogging the blog, but see the works of the most brilliant on the topic, Ida B. Wells-Barnett, leader of the anti-lynching crusade in this country.  I would bet money that Bill-O never bothered his pinhead to read the great IBWB -- but I can hope that Michelle Obama has done so, as it may help her in the times ahead. . . .)

    Parent

    Like "witch hunt" (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:02:30 PM EST
    which has misogynist origin, but seems to have acquired a largely non-sexist use--as in the 1950s witch hunts?  

    I am not so sure about that--"lynching" is a phrase that still seems very closely tied in modern usage to the hooded variety of vigilantes...

    Parent

    are you kidding (none / 0) (#141)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:03:52 PM EST
    people still get lynched!  thats a silly statement.

    Parent
    Figuratively, yes, (none / 0) (#151)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:13:38 PM EST
    but literally, no, I certainly hope not...at least not that I have heard of.

    In modern usage, the phrase "lynching" seems very closely tied to the concept of what the Klan used to do....as a metaphor

    Parent

    no! (none / 0) (#154)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:15:14 PM EST
    people get literally lynched.

    Parent
    jgarza (none / 0) (#160)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:22:00 PM EST
    Let me get this straight: You think that Bill O'Reilly was actually calling for people to get a rope, find Michelle Obama and hang her from a tree?  That he is saying that people should murder her?  He is not speaking figuratively, but actually calling for her blood?

    Parent
    historical sense (none / 0) (#179)
    by Allin on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:05:02 PM EST
    Has the historical sense of the word 'pimped out' been lost and translated to 'pimp a ride' because of some mpvie. Oh, this stuff is insane.

    Parent
    Exclusivity (none / 0) (#124)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:54:13 PM EST
    It's not exclusively racial.  Most of the time it's racial.  When pundits were describing the execution of Saddam Hussein as a "lynching", it wasn't.

    "Nappy headed hoes" is.  All the time it is.


    Parent

    70 comments already (none / 0) (#73)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:07:35 PM EST
    and no one's checked out the original story?

    The link to the Media Matters story is broken.

    Fixed (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:10:26 PM EST
    But I think you make an important point. People trust me to present this fairly.

    I think I have earned that trust.

    Parent

    Well, (none / 0) (#88)
    by Alien Abductee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:24:43 PM EST
    I'm not sure what "fairly" is. No one is objective. But on this story you're probably quite correct about that.

    But it's also true that people mostly just don't bother clicking through to check things out for themselves. And they always should.

    Parent

    It seems you DO know what "fairly" means (none / 0) (#92)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:26:38 PM EST
    This is ridiculous (none / 0) (#131)
    by Kathy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:58:27 PM EST
    There is no way, no how, in any context or connotation that phrase could not be taken as a racist remark.

    Words are powerful tools, and the accepted meaning of the word "lynching" in pretty much all of America is that it references a black person and is meant to "keep" a black person in his place.

    To argue that this is not accepted usage is just as ignorant as arguing that "pimped out"  in the now-famous Shuster example is not meant to indicate that Chelsea Clinton is a who*re.

    Parent

    What will the world be like w/o racism? (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:16:04 PM EST
    Will it be society that don't see race, whether in the color of one's skin or in the words one uses?

    Or will it be society that chooses to focus intently on race, whether in the color of one's skin or in the words one uses?

    btw, anyone else listen to the whole clip? (none / 0) (#84)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:20:17 PM EST
    His choice of words was bad, but I'm sure there are other issues as well, both positive and negative.

    The discussion is whether MO, obviously a person of color, is "angry." Wouldn't that also be a racist?

    No, that would be gendered if (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:39:26 PM EST
    she is only angry "periodically," when she is "feeling down" about this country.  That's when he would not be able to be supportive of her "tone." :-)

    Parent
    "Periodically" (none / 0) (#106)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:43:59 PM EST
    I am behind the curve on this one....Do you have a link?

    Parent
    There you go (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:49:55 PM EST
    you're so blindly sexist, and obviously male, that you don't even how sexist the word "period" is I have resolved to not even use them any more Periods, that is

    Parent
    Nope, not any more -- see back threads here (none / 0) (#157)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:16:55 PM EST
    or google; it's more of Obama's and the Other Obama's attacks, widely found on the 'Net.

    Parent
    Ok, in the same quote as "feeling down" (none / 0) (#163)
    by MKS on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:24:33 PM EST
    Yes I listened to the clip (none / 0) (#96)
    by kmblue on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:36:10 PM EST
    and the speculation about whether MO is angry.
    I don't know if she is.
    I am, but mostly when I'm watching television.
    So I've cut back. ;)

    actually I don't think that the GOP really (none / 0) (#109)
    by athyrio on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 03:44:36 PM EST
    gives a flip about being called racist....Democrats and liberals in general try to be totally aware of that but republicans really could care less IMO

    The MO clip was EDITED (none / 0) (#149)
    by allimom99 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:11:36 PM EST
    I'm not an Obama supporter, but in the audio clip, the word "really" has mysteriously disappeared. The original is at YouTube. I do have to say that she's used this before, and for someone who's apparently so bright, should have known how it would be parsed. The HE came out to explain what she meant - how condescending is the? she's a big girl, and she'd better get used to it; the slime machine is just getting started!

    The tip of the racism/misogny iceberg... (none / 0) (#155)
    by mike in dc on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:15:50 PM EST
    ...from the right, and it helps to keep the race/gender brouhahas in the Democratic party ranks in perspective.  
    "we" have issues to work out.  "they" have lifetime subscriptions.

    I agree with you, BTD. (none / 0) (#204)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST
    Offensive and unacceptable.  Why am I not surprised that it's coming from FOX?