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More on The Obama Garb Flap: Clinton Camp Denies Involvement

By Big Tent Democrat

I am on a Howard Wolfson press conference call and in response to an Andrea Mitchell question about whether the Clinton camp was involved in pushing the Obama Somali garb photo. Wolfson answered "No, not that I am aware of."

Wolfson excoriated the Media (and implicitly bloggers like me) who ran with the story with out doing some independent reporting. I would defend myself by saying that when asked for a statement, the Clinton camp did not issue a denial. Suspending common sense is not a requisite to reporting imo.

If something further develops, I will add it to this post.

NOTE - Comments are now closed.

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    some smart diarist at daily kos (5.00 / 8) (#3)
    by Turkana on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:29:22 PM EST
    saw it as the drudge slime it was.

    Kudos to you as well as that smarty (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by jes on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:07 PM EST
    pants!

    Parent
    They have a poll going to endorse or not (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:37:56 PM EST
    The poll over there is to wait until there is a sure nonominee or go for it right now. Need 2/3rds.So far they have it BUT I do not know if he means 2/3 of those who voted (16k+) or 2/3rds of the members. Or 2/3rd of the lurkers too. Anyway, I voted.

    Parent
    Was that diaries an FPer or a (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by MarkL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:46:12 PM EST
    Freeper? :P

    Parent
    I say kudos (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:33:05 PM EST
    to you, BTD. You have walked back your original post with updates and a follow up.

    At TPM, Marshall's original editorilizing stands without an update or correction. You have to search his busy page to find any further clarification on the matter.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/179989.php

    Bloggers have integrity when they vet stories with their readers, spot the canards of the rightwing noise machine, and make corrections.

    I say BTD should change the (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:58:17 PM EST
    title of the previous post.  Otherwise I agree.

    Parent
    Thanks, BTD. Kudos. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:50:03 PM EST
    Marshall added an update (none / 0) (#55)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:57:14 PM EST
    which asserts that he could not be wrong, but we can be the judges...

    Parent
    I repeat my quote from (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by kmblue on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:42:44 PM EST
    Mark Halperin and John Harris:

    "Matt Drudge Rules Our World."

    I've been working in journalism for 15 years.
    Stephen Colbert was dead on at the annual press dinner.  (I believe his performance can still be found on YouTube.)

    Essentially, you gotta do your own reporting for this election.

    And I must add that if you read the complete transcipt of Maggie William's statement, in my opinion it was not a non-denial denial.

    But to each his own.

    Are you forgetting Tracy Sefl... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by tbetz on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:43:18 PM EST
    ... and this New York Times story from last Fall?

    On the Republican side, a generation of campaign consultants has grown up learning to play in Mr. Drudge's influential but rarefied world. They have spent years studying his tastes and moods while carefully building close relationships with him that are now benefiting some Republican presidential campaigns -- and that others are scrambling to match.

    The early advantage on their side, in the view of several Republicans, seems to have gone to Mitt Romney, who hired the former Bush political aide who had been the central party's prime point of contact with Mr. Drudge, Matthew Rhoades. His status was solidified after the 2004 election at a steakhouse dinner in Miami with Mr. Drudge, who for all his renown in politics is a somewhat spectral presence who rarely agrees to meet with political operatives or journalists and who did not respond to requests for an interview for this article.

    So important was the Romney camp's perceived advantage in the eyes of aides to Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, that at one point this year they even considered sending an emissary to Miami to build their own relationship with him, two former McCain campaign officials said. (Mr. Drudge ignored the invitation, one of the officials said.)

    But, typical of a campaign with a reputation for exploiting every advantage and trying to neutralize every disadvantage, Mrs. Clinton's communications team, led by Howard Wolfson, is not leaving Mr. Drudge to the Republicans. Five current and former Democratic officials said Mrs. Clinton has on her side the closest thing her party has ever had to Mr. Rhoades in Tracy Sefl, a former Democratic National Committee official, who has established a friendly working relationship with Mr. Drudge -- and through whom Mrs. Clinton's campaign often worked quietly to open a line of communication.

    That effort has helped to mix some positive stories in with the negative fare about Mrs. Clinton that Mr. Drudge still serves up regularly, they said, though Ms. Sefl's fingerprints are usually impossible to spot.

    In April, Mr. Drudge scored exclusive access to a first round of Clinton fund-raising figures. In later months, he highlighted a campaign strategist's prediction that Mrs. Clinton would win over even some Republican voters, polls showing her lead widening and articles chronicling her success in winning over previously skeptical voters.



    Tracy Sefl (5.00 / 0) (#80)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:08:52 PM EST
    has responded personally to this already.  Sefl:  "No."


    Parent
    O.K. Its settled then. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:47:30 PM EST
    As Tracy Self's "no" was on the (none / 0) (#87)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:12:26 PM EST
    previous thread, your insinuation as well as your too-extensive use of space here (summarize, summarize) suggests that either you did not read the previous thread to stay up with and further this conversation or . . . what was your motive?

    Parent
    I missed the denial in the p0revious thread. (none / 0) (#100)
    by tbetz on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:24:44 PM EST
    So sue me.

    Parent
    How dumb! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ajain on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:43:57 PM EST
    I think the Obama camp is silly to have jumped on this story and make it bigger than it is. Why create an issue for no good reason? I mean what did they think the Clinton campaign would be accused of? Calling Obama multi-cultural?
    They gave air to a spark and created fire.

    Obama doesn't want Hillary to be able to (none / 0) (#122)
    by nycvoter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:42:05 PM EST
    continue her good news cycle based on substance

    Parent
    Wow! (none / 0) (#159)
    by tek on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:09:04 PM EST
    That photo of Hillary and Chelsea with Bhutto in 1995 should be circulated.  It's beautiful and shows three strong women.

    Parent
    The picture has been ou there for a long time (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by LatinoVoter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:57:44 PM EST
    and if he's so ashamed of his heritage then he shouldn't try to capitalize it to win votes if he thinks it will be used against him to keep him from getting votes.

    http://www.geeskaafrika.com/ethiopia_31aug06.htm

    the photo has been on that website since '06

    Sounds like Rove (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by john5750 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
    We all know the GOP has been backing Obama with money and votes.

    They knew Hillary was coming out with great press today, so this is how to make both of them look bad.

    Clinton Release on Retired Military, Defense Official Endorsements.

    Hillary Clinton to be Joined by Senior Retired Military and Defense Officials at Today's Foreign Policy Speech.

    Clinton Unveils List of Flag Officers Endorsing Her for President

    Hillary Clinton will set out her approach to American foreign policy in the 21st Century in a speech at George Washington University today. Joining her will be a group of senior retired military and defense officials who have endorsed her to be this nation's next Commander-in-Chief.

    They are: General Wesley Clark, Lt. General Joe Ballard, Major General Antonio M. Taguba, Rear Admiral David Stone, Brigadier General John M. Watkins, Jr. and former Secretary of the Army Togo West. Generals Taguba and Watkins will formally announce their endorsement of Senator Clinton today.

    Many of our nation's most distinguished military officers stand proudly with Hillary Clinton because they believe that she has the strength, experience and leadership necessary to be President and Commander-in-Chief. They include three four-star generals, a former chairman and vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other Americans who have served their country with honor and distinction.

    In addition to the endorsements of Generals Taguba and Watkins, Senator Clinton is proud to announce the endorsement today of Admiral William Owens (Ret.).

    Admiral Owens served with distinction for more than 30 years in the Navy, rising to become Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation's second highest ranking military officer.

    Major General Taguba served his country with distinction for 34 years, retiring from the Army in 2007. The son of a Filipino-American who survived the 1942 Bataan Death March, General Taguba led the Army's investigation into prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib in 2004.

    Brigadier General John M. Watkins, Jr. served nearly 30 years in the Army and completed his military career as the Chief Operations Officer/Deputy Director of the Defense Information Systems Agency.

    Admiral Owens, General Taguba, and General Watkins are among 27 flag-rank military officers who have endorsed Senator Clinton to be our nation's next Commander-in-Chief. They join more than 2,000 veterans and military retirees who are members of Senator Clinton's national and state veterans' steering committees.

    Flag Officers Endorsing Hillary Clinton for President and Commander-in-Chief

    General Wesley Clark
    General John M. Shalikashvili
    General Johnnie E. Wilson
    Admiral William Owens
    Lt. Gen. Joe Ballard
    Lt. Gen. Robert Gard
    Lt. Gen. Claudia J. Kennedy
    Lt. Gen. Donald L. Kerrick
    Lt. Gen. Frederick E. Vollrath
    Vice Admiral Joseph A. Sestak
    Major General Roger R. Blunt
    Major General George A. Buskirk, Jr.
    Major General Edward L. Correa, Jr.
    Major General Paul D. Eaton
    Major General Paul D. Monroe, Jr.
    Major General Antonio M. Taguba
    Rear Admiral Connie Mariano
    Rear Admiral Alan M. Steinman
    Rear Admiral David Stone
    Brigadier General Michael Dunn
    Brigadier General Belisario Flores
    Brigadier General Evelyn "Pat" Foote
    Brigadier General Keith H. Kerr
    Brigadier General Virgil A. Richard
    Brigadier General Preston Taylor
    Brigadier General John M. Watkins, Jr.
    Brigadier General Jack Yeager


    Parent

    Rove did it.

    Parent
    I think this was a direct response (5.00 / 6) (#70)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:04:15 PM EST
    to Clinton getting really good press over the weekend.

    Hasn't anyone thought about this for a second?  Clinton accuses Obama of Rovian tactics and calls shame...a few days later, a photograph that I saw months ago is "leaked" to a questionable blogger and promoted as being obtained from the Clinton campaign and now Obama accuses Clinton of Rovian tactics and calls shame...

    This is Nancy Drew type detecting, boys and girls.

    Bingo! You always get to the crux (none / 0) (#81)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:09:17 PM EST
    so swiftly and well. Thanks, Kathy.

    Parent
    Cream, I went to the gym and did some errands (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:15:53 PM EST
    which I think gave me some perspective!

    Someone else said it better than me: Maggie Williams is certainly running a lean, mean campaigning machine these days.  Hats off to a very smart woman for knowing how this game is played.  I think her (entire) statement was word-perfect: why is this an issue?  Clinton has pics of her in similar dress (looking beautiful, I might add) what's the big deal?

    Beyond being good politics, it raises a valid point: WHY are Obama's folks so furious about a photograph that has been in general circulation for some time now.  Surely he knew the photo was being taken at the time.  What is the big deal?  Is he ashamed of wearing those togs?  Points to a far bigger question than anything else mentioned here today.

    Parent

    must be a (none / 0) (#86)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:12:06 PM EST
    conspiracy!

    Parent
    Jgarza! (none / 0) (#94)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:17:50 PM EST
    that is the most intelligent thing I have ever seen you post.  Kudos!

    ;-)

    Parent

    Ah, I'm still so trusting--I figured it was ReThug (none / 0) (#112)
    by jawbone on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:33:50 PM EST
    I figured it was ReThugs doing this, getting in some early attacks to see what might fly. But, it is so Rovian to do the dirty trick and then blame your opponent for having done it.

    I mean, it is classic Rove--he's done this in almost every campaign he worked on.  

    OMG.

    Obama wouldn't do something like this, would he???

    Then, again, there's that egregious Harry and Louise-type flyer....

    Say it isn't so, Barack! May it not be so.

    But I bet it is from the Obama campaign, now that it's pointed out to me.

    Parent

    Yes... (none / 0) (#187)
    by superjude on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:44:52 PM EST
    You got that exactly right. And I also think it's meant to take away from her speach and military endorsements today. We are really seeing a new kind of politics, all right (snark...).

    Parent
    My head hurts... (5.00 / 8) (#92)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:16:31 PM EST
    Okay, so let me understand the various rules in effect here:

    1. The only person who claimed that the Clinton campaign had anything to do with this is Drudge. Other people, such as Josh Marshall (now there's an unbiased source) concluded that they must be responsible because they didn't explicitly deny it. By that measure, I'm pretty sure the Clinton campaign shot JFK, too.

    2. What's the big deal anyway? So someone is sending around a picture of Obama that was taken by the Associated Press. I can't think of anything even the slightest bit wrong with it. He's showing respect for local customs.

    3. Someone called this race-baiting. That's absurd. Previous photographic evidence has already revealed that Obama is (half-)black.

    4. Hillary Clinton has worn traditional clothing on many of her international visits, including a head scarf.

    This whole thing reminds me of the time when John Kerry noted that Mary Cheney is gay, and the Republicans had a collective fainting fit. For goodness sakes, let's grow up.

    Oh, right on (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:28:47 PM EST
    A Lynne Cheney moment...

    You know, those are for the rabid supporters. It is good indication that a campaign is responding to a softening in its support or a cycle of bad news.

    Perhaps there is more to the apparent disarray in Obama's campaign besides a penchant for citing Drudge Report as a credible news outlet.  

    Parent

    Odd that some are so careful even in (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by my opinion on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:19:29 PM EST
    regards to a story about McCain, but so quick to form opinions about something for which no real factual information existed.

    Sooo... (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by lilburro on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:28:09 PM EST
    Does Plouffe now owe the Clinton campaign an apology?
    Politico
    ""On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election. This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire, and it's exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world," said Plouffe."

    What's next?

    When the cows come home. (none / 0) (#106)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    Thanks for pointing that out (none / 0) (#107)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:30:30 PM EST
    This has been the case ever since the campaign started.


    Parent
    More to the Point (none / 0) (#109)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:32:37 PM EST
    Everything negative said about Obama is Clinton's fault.

    Everything negative said about Clinton is not Obama's fault.

    A subheading I think even BTD forgot to add to the Obama's Rules.


    Parent

    clarification (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:41:28 PM EST
    Rule number two is actually

    "Everything negative said about Clinton is Clinton's fault."

    Rule one and two distill down to "Everything is Clinton's fault."

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

    Parent

    Why would this benefit Clinton? (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:28:55 PM EST
    ...in a Democratic primary? Whose votes would the Clinton campaign be trying to win with this? Are there really a lot of voters in the Democratic base who are likely to respond to racist and xenophobic appeals like this? I don't think so.

    Who are the bigots? In my view they are the Obama supporters who argue that this sort of thing will win votes among working class Democrats because the working class is, naturally, of course, without a doubt, racist and xenophobic.

    Sway (none / 0) (#133)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:50:10 PM EST
    This wouldn't sway the hard-core Obama supporter.  It would rally them.

    It wouldn't sway the hard-core Hillary supporters away from her (the stereotypical blue-collar, etc, etc.)

    It wouldn't sway the flaming liberals like me who see the Muslim faith as just another religion (and who realize that EVERY religion has its violent fanatics and can separate the faith from the fanaticism).

    Who would it sway?  It would sway the right wing crazy Dems-for-a-day who hate Hillary enough to swing over and vote for Obama but hate their caricature of "scary brown people" even more....so it may be of benefit to Hillary.

    Of course, that doesn't mean her campaign was responsible.

    BTW:  I personally found that picture endearing.  It's one of the few times that I perceived any humility in Obama's face and I appreciate when people make gestures like that.  Kinda made me teary, actually.

    Parent

    You don't think racism and xenophobia exist (none / 0) (#173)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:23:47 PM EST
    in any Democratic voter's mind in OH and TX, the next states up?  Wow.  Here might be some news for you -- neither trait is limited to one specific party.  But, you go on thinking that it's all OHB's followers' fault.  

    Parent
    I didn't say they didn't exist (none / 0) (#181)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:39:05 PM EST
    But I don't believe they exist to an extent that would make these kind of appeals a smart or winning strategy in a Democratic primary.

    Archie Bunker is just as much a stereotype as the Stepin Fetchit character black comedian Lincoln Perry played in the 20s and 30s.

    Today, we all recognize what was offensive about the Fetchit character. Someday perhaps we'll see our class stereotypes as clearly.

    Parent

    I wonder (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by kenoshaMarge on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:30:51 PM EST
    why there is so much attention being paid over one damn picture that was not newly released, had been around for 2 years and was not some "gotcha" photo taken by a papaparasite hiding in the bushes. Visiting Politicos are frequently photographed in the Native Dress of other countries.

    Used to be only the Rightwingnuts went ballistic about such drivel. Remember the Wingers having a hissy fit because Nancy Pelosi was photographed wearing a (gasp) Burka? Poor Pathetic Pelosi was excoriated for days, Rush leading the lynch mob, although there were pictures of Laura Bush & Condi Rice wearing exactly the same kind of head gear. Which was not a Burka but a scarf.(It's an insidious Islamofacist plot my friends; photographing our womenfolk in scarves!) Oh my what a tempest in a chamber pot. Nonsense posing as an issue while real issues are ignored.

    With all the problems with which this country abounds do we, as liberal/Democrats need to emulate the Wingers in our outrage?

     

    Talk about the Freak Show (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by vj on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:37:34 PM EST
    A picture of Obama is taken in 2006.  This image has apparently been widely available since that time.  It is reported to have appeared on a tabloid cover recently.

    So Drudge puts it on his web site.  NOW it's news.  Now it's worth getting into a lather over, and now the the campaigns are trading accusations, and the blogosphere is going to argue about it all day long.  

    It's surreal.

    Shame on you (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by nycvoter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    I would have to say your title and the fact that you would take Josh Marshall as saying that their non-denial was an admission was pretty disappointing.  The did not want to find out some staffer had sent it and it could be linked to them.  You bought into what will now make it through the news cycle as a smear on Clinton and a distraction.  Why don't you do a story on her speech today instead.

    photos and judgment (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by christinep on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:51:25 PM EST
    Ultimately, lets ask ourselves why one who surely must have be contemplating a run for higher office would not consider the obvious implications of this Somalian picture?  That tells me a lot about his judgment.  It really is a rather "silly" picture--which may be all the more damaging.  Think about how earlier silly pictures have played in the general election--e.g., Dukakis man-with-helmet-in-tank picture helped tank that effort.  The handwringing and out and out whining over where did a picture come from that had been previously published at least three (3) times before is unseemly itself.  This is hardball politics.  All these things: not well thought out pictures, hand over heart during national anthem or not, flag lapel pins, wife not proud of country, interesting Chicago sponsors and relations, the so-far unrejected Farakkhan praise, etc.  will hurt and hurt badly in November if they are used to define his persona.  Stop wishing things were different; they're not.  I'm 60+ and a lifelong Democrat.  One thing I have learned is to consider/imagine/recognized the consequences of seemingly unrelated incidents--especially, when the Republicans do (check their blogs.)  It might help to make a chart or pictorial ourselves of the attacks that will be levelled not just against Clinton but also against Obama as a nominee.  A long look without rose-colored glasses could help us see the "electability" matter more clearly. Finally: As a template, always remember how the war hero Kerry was reduced to something quite the opposite by the Republican define-what-we-don't-know- about-the-person routine.

    I may be wrong (none / 0) (#144)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:57:54 PM EST
    but I believe that the Obama camp pretty quickly came out against the Farakkhan endorsement.

    Parent
    Correct. (none / 0) (#149)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:31 PM EST
    Everyone makes mistakes, (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by dk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:54:26 PM EST
    even BTD (who otherwise has been pretty awesome as a blogger), so I don't think it's right to be too harsh with him this time for running with the Drudge story.

    That said, the best post of the day on this definitely is Jerome Armstong's on MyDD (I feel for their sickness).  I'd paraphrase it, but I wouldn't do it justice.  

    Please note BTD has changed the title (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:56:47 PM EST
    to his previous "garb" post.  

    Parent
    Ugh, I just read Kos' response that BTD (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by dk on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:20:23 PM EST
    links to.

    Kos is out of control.  Let me try to explain the logic.  First, Kos says that he is inclined to believe that the Clinton campaign was not behind the photo release (i.e. never believe Drudge).  Then he attacks the Clinton campaign for using Obama's response (i.e. attacking the Clinton campaign) to attack Obama for their fake outrage about the photo.  Then, Kos says the ultimate lesson of all of this is that Obama has a good rapid response team.

    So, Obama is being praised for attacking Clinton, even though it had nothing to do with Clinton, yet when Clinton attacks Obama, Clinton is, in Kos' words, "just stupid."

    The Obama rules are alive and well!!

    Parent

    BARKING! Drudge Sludge 'rises' to the Sitch! (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:04:14 PM EST
    Wolfe Blitzer barks it on the Situation Room with Team Obama's emphatic castigation of HRC.

    Candy Crowley comments on negative politics and (quel surprise) skews the criticism Hillary-ward.

    Good freakin' grief.

    OMFG Does Obama rise above this or fight it... (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:13:55 PM EST
    "Does Obama rise above this or fight it..."

    How's that Candy Crowley rhetoric for lapping the satire of SNL's skit on the Obama-worshipful MSM?

    This presumption of HRC's wickedness here is followed by St. McCain's toughness on terra. Denunciations by OB and HRC are followed by JMcC's longer explanation.

    Jack Cafferty is up now with a story about how HRC should back out of the race now. He's quoting totally believable, no-agenda-having right wing *holes like Robert Novak and a bunch of other bizarre sources for this view.

    GOOD FREAKIN' GRIEF.

    Sorry for "responding" to my own post but this was just too unbelievable a series of BS to let go unremarked.

    And BTW, BTD, since I've been troll-rated (understandably) for language issues, this is where I deserve a medal for an obscenity-free comment (given having witnessed and relayed the above realtime).

    Parent

    Ah well you knew this would happen... (none / 0) (#162)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:13:16 PM EST
    ...that's why I feel that the Obama campaign has taken me hostage. They've ginned up the Hillary hate so bad that there's no way she can be the nominee so I feel coerced into supporting Obama on the electability issue alone. Much as I hate to admit it, they've done to Hillary what the Republicans couldn't do: slimed her to the point where she is now divisive in her own party. Not her, personally, mind you. Just the idea of her. I really don't see, given what I am reading from Obama supporters on blogs today that they could possibly support her if she won the nomination. How do you dial back all that hate?

    Of course I will vote for Obama, make no mistake about it...but I feel damned crappy about it.

    Parent

    A plea to Maria Garcia (none / 0) (#186)
    by christinep on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:43:03 PM EST
    Maria Garcia: Are you saying this about your vote in jest.  I truly cannot fathom your perspective.  Senator Clinton is right up there--and ahead with Democratic voters--and, you say, that you will vote for the one who "slimed" her???  If this is not a joke, then you are saying that the best way to get your support if to act in a way contrary to your belief/to destroy your candidate's rep (hint: don't be too sure about that); you are saying that you don't act on your own beliefs but on the manipulation of those around you.  Surely, you are joking or having a very down day.  If its the latter, go for a walk around the block, look at the arriving spring birds, think about real hope--and vote for what you really believe in.  Remember: Senator Clinton represents the empowered woman.  Don't be a victim.  

    Parent
    LOL, I already voted for Clinton. (none / 0) (#189)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:50:00 PM EST
    My primary is over. But I do feel like a victim. I'm surrounded by Obama supporters in my own family and I'm tired of fighting with them about this. I just hope they come to their senses soon, not so much about Obama, but about swallowing the Republican talking points on Clinton hook, line, and sinker. It's so discouraging.


    Parent
    Well I didn't last long out there :-) (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Florida Resident on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:05:05 PM EST
    wow there a lot of nastiness in them there bloqs out yonder.  I better stick to this one at least here you get mostly intelligent discussion.

    Before always blaming Hillary (5.00 / 6) (#160)
    by CognitiveDissonance on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:09:55 PM EST
    perhaps we would do well to look at the history of every flap that has happened against the Clinton camp by Obama. These invariably occur at one of the rare times when he is getting negative press, or something bad for him is about to happen. We saw what happened after Michelle Obama's gaffe. Suddenly, all the air in the room is taken up by an 8-year old supposed McCain scandal. This is occuring after a weekend in which Hillary has taken him to task for false mailers, and in which vids have been going around showing Hillary in Rhode Island taking his rhetoric to task for its emptiness. On top of that, the Rezko trial is starting. So now we get a distraction blamed on Hillary that makes it look like she is being racist, yet again. It reminds me of the race-baiting of the Obama campaign right before SC. No one seems to stop and think that if she were to have really done this, it would make HER look bad, not him. So why would she do it? It makes no sense.

    I have a better idea - Axelrod is behind this and every other one of these kerfluffles. Anytime Obama is behind or is looking bad, he comes out with something to blame on the Clinton campaign. If you look at the timing of these things, it is just beyond suspicious.


    Yes (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:13:37 PM EST
    There is no evidence to support this, but it strikes me as a possibility (yes, I am speculating).

    Remember the debate after the "immigration stumble" debate? Clinton did really well, and got positive coverage for it. Then the Obama campaign milked the Novak thing for all it was worth, sucking the air out of the "Clinton makes a comeback" narrative.


    Parent

    This highlights 3 things: (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:11:05 PM EST
    1. The willingness of the Obama campaign to milk storied pushed by rightwingers to the max (e.g. first Novak and now this). They have done so very effectively.

    2. The weakness of the Clinton rapid response team. Yes, you want to turn it around and counter-attack, but if you do so, including a clear denial straight away helps a lot. They screwed up by not doing that.

    3. The eagerness of the media to jump down Clinton's throat. If the Obama campaign cries foul, the media has his back immediately.


    1st 30 min of 02-25-2008 Situation Rm is textbook (none / 0) (#179)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:35:34 PM EST
    Any researchers or (objective) media critics -- not RW shills like Ho "Conflict of Interest" Kurtz -- should check out the transcript of today's Situation Room when it's up.

    Unbelievable. It's like a 30-min PrObama, anti HRC infommercial. Team Clinton's apparently getting response time later on.

    Parent

    Obama dignified this DRUDGE non-story (5.00 / 4) (#177)
    by catfish on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:33:11 PM EST
    with a response - and the response was to blame Hillary for a photo of him that was published last year?

    Is this our president for the next four years? Inflamming racial tensions without first checking what was this Hillary staffer's name? And by the way - it's a real photo and I have nothing to hide.

    This guy cannot be our president, this is so immature.

    I hope you're right (none / 0) (#194)
    by RalphB on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:55:37 PM EST
    and he can't be our president.

    Parent
    Picture idiocy (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:40:55 PM EST
    So, now there is a pic of Hillary with Arafat...gee, wonder who is sending those pics around?Newsday

    This is idiotic, letting Drudge determine the discussion.  

    My God (none / 0) (#190)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:50:24 PM EST
    how childish can you get?  I mean--wtf?  

    At any rate, big deal.  Bill Clinton was closer to negotiating peace in the middle east at that point in time than any other president before him.  As Maggie Williams said--big deal.

    As I say: this is all that they could come up with?  Sounds like they consulted the law offices of Nanner, Nanner and Boo-boo

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#191)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:51:47 PM EST
    idiocy for even talking about it.  Right wing is playing us.  

    Parent
    How did Drudge (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:54:06 PM EST
    Get the pic of the Clintons' with Rezko?

    Hillary sent it to him..... (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:56:25 PM EST
    ...she wanted to bash herself!  :)

    Parent
    She is so vicious (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:59:54 PM EST
    Man, I cannot believe we are talking about costumes.  Frankly, as someone from the Middle East, I find it offensive that clothing from the Middle East is considered the equal of marching in a Nazi outfit.  This is really disgusting.  

    Parent
    and not only that... (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:02:20 PM EST
    But shame on her for not publicly and immediately condemning herself for her shameless bashing of herself! How dare she, I say!

    It's so beyond surreal.

    Parent

    I'm beginning to not recognize my party (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:03:44 PM EST
    or my country--I mean, this is ridiculous!  

    I hope HRC is prepared to set the truth out tomorrow night--the undeniable truth.  I mean, do we have to start protest rallies or something to wake everyone up?  

    Aren't there any "real" journalists left who can set the record straight.  The only one I can think of is Cronkite--even Tom Brokaw drank the kool aid (see the last Bill Maher).

    Could it be that it is a rogue? (4.50 / 2) (#46)
    by goldberry on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:51:54 PM EST
    A rogue supporter from either campaign could have put the pic out there. Maybe Wolfson doesn't know who did it or he does know but it wasn't an official thing and wasn't blessed by the Clinton campaign. It does sound like a distraction and one that they're going to get clobbered with whether they are responsible or not.  
    But what is even more interesting is that Obama's camp is spazzing over it as usual. I mean, what's the big deal?  The mindless accusations that this is a dirty campaign tactic drives home the message that somehow being associated with African muslims is somehow a bad thing.  How do Muslim Americans feel about that?  I'd be PO'd if I were them.  Don't they have a right to live in a country where they don't have to feel like they're the neighborhood terrorists?  


    I still don't understand what the big deal is (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by litigatormom on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:33:49 PM EST
    The photo has been in the public doman for months, everyone knows he went to Kenya last year, Hillary has been photographed in a head scarf while visiting a Muslim country -- there is nothing wrong with a photo of him wearing local Kenyan dress.

    Perhaps Obama is trying to innoculate himself from the inevitable resurgence of "he went to a madrassa, he took his oath on a Koran" rumors, but I think he's going overboard. It may get tiresome constantly correcting the record, or putting something in context is fine -- indeed, I am sure it is -- but getting so upset about it increases the negative fallout from the rumor.

    And I would never trust Drudge to tell a straight story about where he got a photograph that has apparently been on the internets for months.  

    Parent

    Go figure, I thought OB looked cool (none / 0) (#152)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:00:59 PM EST
    Mind you, I've worked, volunteered and lived with a variety of people from cultures and heritage outside my own.

    I'm just floored by the beauty (function and elegance) of some of the local styles of dress.

    Some friends and colleagues have sent me gifts of some authentic traditional clothing that I've admired.

    Two words:

    Salwar kameez.

    Okay, five more:

    Mexican or Thai Fisherman's Pants.

    (Summer's coming, gotta stock up.)

    Parent

    Another take (none / 0) (#82)
    by cmugirl on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:10:09 PM EST
    At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy freak - whose to say the Obama people didn't put that out (on the day Hillary is giving a major foreign policy speech) to create the controversy themselves? Even though he says he's a different kind of politician and promises "change," we all know he isn't - he's just another politician. It's a perfect ploy - if Clinton denies it, the bloggers and MSM just say "oh, more typical Clinton dirty tricks that they won't own up to."  He can't lose on this one.

    Parent
    Stranger things have happened (none / 0) (#90)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:15:40 PM EST
    When enough logic is provided, conspiracies begin to dissipate

    Parent
    What logic? (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by cmugirl on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:18:43 PM EST
    What logic are you talking about?  He's already proven that he'll stoop to Rovian tactics (see: NAFTA flier). Why would this be any different?

    Parent
    What logic (none / 0) (#124)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:43:19 PM EST
    I was actually referring to the logic in your post. Your conspiracy theory is not that far-fetched.

    Parent
    I make the same point I made below (4.33 / 6) (#1)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:27:09 PM EST
    Apparently when Obama embraces the negativity of bloggers and the media, you are quick to say "he's just trying to win an election."  And you let him and his campaign off the hook.  Even if you are really harsh on the media and other bloggers you let the campaign itself off the hook.

    If there's a negative story about Obama, you are inclined, with or without proof, to blame the Clinton campaign more directly.

    Think about this.


    How often do you read this blog? (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:44:36 PM EST
    BTD has been criticizing Obama and praising Clinton on a regular basis.  He coined the term "Obama Rules."  A lot of people have been shocked to discover he supports Obama.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:49:41 PM EST
    I understand that.

    But while he is very critical of bloggers and the media, he has left Obama himself off the hook.

    The first impulse here, a reflexive impulse, was to blame the Clinton folks directly.

    Just something to think about.

    But yes, you are right, he has been extremely critical of bloggers and the media.


    Parent

    Check out this (none / 0) (#66)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:01:54 PM EST
    post by BTD.  Contrast it with this one by hilzoy (aka Hillary Bok).  Still think BTD has left Obama off the hook?

    Parent
    Perhaps (none / 0) (#79)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:07:19 PM EST
    This comment:

    And let me make this clear, I do not blame Obama. He was running his campaign and trying to win.

    That is what campaigns do.

    http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/2/22/174547/976/26#26

    requires some clarification.

    Parent

    See my comment (none / 0) (#85)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:11:58 PM EST
    below.  We are carrying on the same conversation in parallel threads.

    Parent
    BTD has walked back the post (3.66 / 3) (#24)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:42:27 PM EST
    We would be better served analyzing TPM's role in fueling this distraction... Read Marshall's first line:

    "You've probably already seen that blaring headline on Drudge's site, alleging that Clinton staffers have been circulating a 2006 photo of Obama in the garb of a Somali village elder with a turban."

    Why is TPM putting running with stories from the Drudge Report and for what audience? Just who is he writing that too? Why does he assume his readers have already seen Drudge's site?

    I say the "you" is reporters, who know "Drudge rules their world." This was meant to be a talking point memo to the media, especially the anti-Clinton progressive media who can't just run with a Drudge report.

    Parent

    Better not to have put a foot (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:46:10 PM EST
    into it so soon than have to walk it back, and the header on it, too, that now are "out there" forever, like the photo that was out there for a long time before this puffery today. BTD, please take care in the times and nonsense ahead for the sake of this blog -- you and Jeralyn have built a good rep here for not being the Big Orange, TPM, Drudge, etc.

    Parent
    I say... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:03:56 PM EST
    that that protocol would be too onerous for a blog. Everything a blogger posts certainly speaks to their judgement, but their first post on a subject is not the last word on that judgement.

    However, a site like TPM that tries to play it both ways, bloggers and journalists, should have better protocols for flaming a Drudge Report. TPM chose to run with the pic and a Drudge Report banner in a post directed to journalists (imho).

    If anything, for progressive blogs, the story is Obama campaign's willingness to use Drudge Reports to further its own political interests and how that reflects on the "new politics." But, TPM does not dare to examine or analyze the tactics of the Obama campaign against its claims to forming a "new politics" while relying on the Drudge Report and the Clinton Rules to advance its candidate.

    Parent

    It is not sufficient (none / 0) (#114)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:35:27 PM EST
    to expose the Obama Rules and then not resist them, not when posters are expressing gratitude for the previous post for "showing" that Clinton herself is "shameful," etc. The header there could be changed, at the least.

    Parent
    I think you are right now... (none / 0) (#154)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:03:49 PM EST
    TPM and the progressive blogs mainstreamed Drudge's work...

    CNN just had a live interview with reporters who repeated what TPM wrote at 10:00am EST, and nothing about the Clinton's further denials. Of course, Google news and Yahoo news are filled with stories about the non-denial denials.

    Obama "Teh Movement" is inevitable.

    Parent

    That's Great (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:47:20 PM EST
    The headline "Shame on Clinton" still exists.

    I stand by the observation.  Even when it comes to someone who's been very harsh on the media and bloggers for being negative about Clinton, and I fully grant that, BTD has said that the Obama campaign should not be blamed for that.

    Now, a negative story circulates about Obama and first impulse, a reflexive impulse, is to blame the Clinton campaign!

    This is telling to me.

    I take note.

    It requires some thought.


    Parent

    This is where Team Obama has been losing me (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:05:28 PM EST
    They'll pounce on any opportunity, however false or scurrilous, to disgrace HRC -- whom they regard as The Enemy -- rather than direct their communt during that opportunity to a factually correct record.

    How to deal with this crap: I wouldn't put much faith into any story promoted by Drudge (or fill in the other propaganda organ) [and then say your talking point or message].

    What Team Obama has been doing: Throwing whatever they can and hoping something will stick despite their "movement" being based on changing the current way of conducting politics. The one that's stuck in my head for its bald-faced opportunism and clear intent to smear was Michelle Obama talking about Bill Clinton's alleged racism (which was debunked, and repeatedly, well before her appearance on Larry King Live.) Instead of saying, well that's been shown to be false, however, [fill in talking point and message.]

    Instead, she attempted to punk LK and the audience by trying to revive and promulgate the debunked smear that WJC made a racist statement: "It didn't surprise me, Larry ... "

    I wonder whether BO's supporters are liars surrounding a well-meaning candidate or whether he's consciously surrounding himself with say-anything do-anything win-at-any-cost douchebags so the nefarious tactics can't be tangibly traced to him personally (which is what the creep currently occupying the WH has been doing back when he was campaigning.)

    Parent

    TPM (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by horseloverfat on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:11:14 PM EST
    I have considered TPM a Drudge equivalent ever since Josh kept pushing the HRC tried to get Shuster fired smear.  I won't click any link that goes to TPM or Drudge.

    Parent
    I'm out of the loop about LW-Blog on Blog violence (none / 0) (#115)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:36:22 PM EST
    I've been largely untethered from "the fray" mainly out of disgust for the enabling / collaboration with parties that have been permitting gross injustice and even enshrining it in law.

    To say I'm deeply disappointed by some individuals, the Dems generally, and certain alternative media sources is an understatement.

    I haven't written off some alternative sources (like TPM and HuffiPo), but I'm not down with the notion that "our" side is now entitled to an unquestioning, glassy-eyed partisanship mentality that has defined "them".

    I will never embrace that mentality.

    Parent

    It Didn't Surpise Me Larry (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by tek on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:59:33 PM EST
    You wonder what planet these people have been living on that they would actually believe the Clintons would be guilty of making racist statements.  That is offensive to all Democrats.  If he is President, this aspect of their behavior will be amplified into a national disgrace.

    Parent
    He didn't (1.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:30:37 PM EST
    blame the Clinton campaign, drudge did, and they have yet to deny it.  To me the big story is they don't think they did it, but their campaign is in such a mess they can't deny it.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:13 PM EST
    Diary title was "Shame on the Clinton campaign."

    Sounds like blame to me!

    Parent

    i'm sorry (1.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:03:24 PM EST
    but last time i checked BTD diary's dont' speak for the Obama campaign.  

    I think after this story Hillary looses the obnoxious supporter contest.

    Stabbing people for voting for Obama.

    Parent

    funny (and sad) twist (none / 0) (#176)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:29:28 PM EST
    After whining about an AP photo of Obama taken two years ago, you think its uplifting the dialogue to use a  newsclip about some personal family dispute to smear Clinton supporters? Come on, if the Obama supporter had gotten the knife into his cousin first and someone had posted that here, you'll be yelling your head off about how offensive it was.

    Parent
    It is especially pathetic when Jgarza ignores (none / 0) (#184)
    by LatinoVoter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:41:28 PM EST
    the fact the the Obama supporter choked the Clinton supporter and the stabbing was in clear self-defense. For a camp so upset about the "cult" meme I don't see how pushing a story where an Obama supporter turned to violence helps their case any.

       

    "One is a supporter of Barack Obama, the other is a supporter of Hillary Clinton, and an argument of words turned bloody when one brother-in-law tried to choke the other and the victim then responded with a knife and stabbed his brother-in-law in the stomach."

    The keyword here is victim.

    Source

    Parent

    self defense (none / 0) (#200)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:02:45 PM EST
    right!

    Parent
    No, his Campaign manager did: (none / 0) (#172)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:23:43 PM EST
    "On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign has engaged in the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election. This is part of a disturbing pattern that led her county chairs to resign in Iowa, her campaign chairman to resign in New Hampshire, and it's exactly the kind of divisive politics that turns away Americans of all parties and diminishes respect for America in the world."

    David Plouffe, Obama Campaign Manager

    Or is Obama not responsible for of his campaign manager's statement now?

    Notice that his CM frames the public photo as "offensive fear-mongering". STUUU-Pid.

    Parent

    Where? (none / 0) (#10)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:43 PM EST
    I would accept that statement about many of the liberal bloggers but not BTD.  He has been more even handed and objective than most.  Can you provide any examples to back up the claims you make?  

    Parent
    I Just Did (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:33:34 PM EST
    He leaves Obama himself and his campaign off the hook when the Obama campaign makes a prosperity off the negativity of others.

    And then when a negative story circulates about Obama, the first impulse is to blame the Clinton compaign.

    I think that's hypocritical.  Just my opinion.


    Parent

    Again (none / 0) (#43)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:49:52 PM EST
    where has BTD left Obama off?  He has written numerous posts that are critical of Obama's campaign.  I think your opinion is based on not on facts but on your loyalty and sensitivity to criticism of Hillary.  Unless you can provide something to substantiate your opinion, I will continue to believe your opinion is wrong.  

    Parent
    BTD can clarify here (none / 0) (#48)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:53:01 PM EST
    He wrote a post over the weekend that was very critical of bloggers and the media but in the comments section he pointed out that he didn't think the behavior of these people should reflect on Obama.

    If this is an unfair assessment of BTD's position, he should clarify.


    Parent

    Read this post (none / 0) (#61)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:59:01 PM EST
    and then tell me whether you still think BTD has laid off Obama. link

    Parent
    Ok Fine (none / 0) (#75)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:05:35 PM EST
    I was just going by this comment:

    http://www.talkleft.com/comments/2008/2/22/174547/976/26#26

    And let me make this clear, I do not blame Obama. He was running his campaign and trying to win.

    That is what campaigns do.

    Perhaps BTD should clarify.

    I could be wrong here.  I've been wrong before.


    Parent

    Why does it need clarification? (none / 0) (#83)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:11:05 PM EST
    He doesn't blame Obama for the media's sexism.  He does blame Obama for (supposed) Obama's sexism.  How is this letting Obama off the hook?

    Parent
    Heh Heh (none / 0) (#88)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:12:42 PM EST
    OK.


    Parent
    Hilarious I know (none / 0) (#140)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:55:05 PM EST
    The idea that things done by other people aren't Obama's fault.

    Parent
    But Everything done by other people (none / 0) (#145)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:00 PM EST
    especially Drudge is Clinton's fault.

    You miss the point.

    Parent

    But Everything done by other people (none / 0) (#146)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:10 PM EST
    especially Drudge is Clinton's fault.

    You miss the point.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#156)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:04:19 PM EST
    There was a specific allegation that this was leaked by the Clinton campaign, and the Clinton campaign's initial response sounded very much like an admission.

    There is an obvious difference between having a factual dispute over who did something, and blaming someone for something he didn't do.  

    Parent

    I Just Hope (none / 0) (#165)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:14:04 PM EST
    We're done giving Drudge the benefit of the doubt when the Primary is over.


    Parent
    We have achieved (none / 0) (#167)
    by AF on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:15:03 PM EST
    consensus.

    Parent
    Could that be turned around to (none / 0) (#204)
    by hairspray on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:39:15 PM EST
    read: Let me make this clear, I don't blame Hillary. She was running her campaign and trying to win.   That is what campaigns do.

    Parent
    This is ridiculous (none / 0) (#71)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:04:43 PM EST
    It's not up to BTD to clarify your unsubstantiated claim.  The imperative is on you to document what you allege and so far you have failed to do so.  

    Parent
    I Just Did (none / 0) (#77)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:06:01 PM EST
    See above.


    Parent
    One comment (none / 0) (#127)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
    that pertained to the "unfair and sexist attacks in the Media and unfortunately, progressive blogs, including, maybe especially, the A-List blogs."  I don't know how that could possibly be construed as letting Obama and his campaign off the hook.  I don't even see where it could be said that Obama has embraced their negativity either.  The most accurate statement would be that he has not disavowed it when he had the opportunity but that is not the equivalent of embracing it either.  

    And there are three posts, here, here and here, where BTD did take Obama to task for his own statements which is about all that should be expected.

    Parent

    I Have Suggested (none / 0) (#139)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:54:52 PM EST
    At least three times that BTD should clarify the comment I posted above.


    Parent
    Are you saying the (none / 0) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:22:22 PM EST
    picture is false??

    I think it speaks for itself.

    The likely Demo Candidate about two years ago.

    Parent

    It's just like Novak (4.33 / 6) (#14)
    by Steve M on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:34:34 PM EST
    the Clinton campaign is not under any obligation to deny unsubstantiated rumors if they don't want to.

    There is no rule that says they need to let the Obama campaign dictate the contents of the news cycle any time they feel like it, just by accusing Clinton of something with no evidence whatsoever.

    And I don't blame the Clinton campaign, not at all, for refusing to drop everything and hook all their staffers up to a lie detector just so they can figure out if an unequivocal denial is warranted.  It's unfortunate that Obama has tried to turn this Drudge crap into an anti-Clinton story, but Clinton is not required to cooperate.

    I anticipate tomorrow's debate (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:36:32 PM EST
    will be very interesting.

    Parent
    Uh huh. I want to know more (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:38:34 PM EST
    about the backstory, on why Drudge did not say it "received" the email but only "obtained it" (credit to wasabi for spotting that careful parsing). And I guess we ought to compliment Obama campaign manager Plouffe for being so ready with this statement this morning, that "release of the photo 'On the very day that Senator Clinton is giving a speech about restoring respect for America in the world, her campaign'" would . . . blah blah blah.

    Parent
    Journalists (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by kmblue on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:00:15 PM EST
    (when it comes to Drudge, I use the word advisedly)
    sometimes use the word "obtained" when they mean
    1.  the items was slipped into our mailbox in the middle of the night 2. we met with them in a parking garage in the middle of the night  3. we hacked into their email account  4. pick your scenario

    Parent
    I wouldn't put it pass Drudge (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by ineedalife on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    to have "obtained" it from their garbage.

    Parent
    I agree completely (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Foxx on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:45:13 PM EST
    Clinton fired people at the beginning, but Obama has never fired anyone, and there are a number of people he should have.  All she did was give him ammunition, "she had to fire people they behaved so badly."

    The Clinton statement was absolutely correct, they are not going to let him distract the campaign.

    If you read Drudge, what he is implyng though not outright saying it, is that this was an internal email. It may or may not exist. Yet what bloggers immediately jumped to was, Clinton is shopping this photo to the media.

    This is a photo that has been around for a long time. It is appearing on all the right wing blogs and the National Enquirer. Was it ever realistic to think Clinton "caused" this? No.

    Parent

    In fact, hypothesis (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Foxx on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:05:28 PM EST
    RW starts circulating this picture, Enquirer prints it. Clinton staff sees it, emails it to another staff, "Hey look at this, if this were HRC we'd really be hearing about it." Mole leaks that email to Drudge, Drudge chuckles and does article insinuating Clinto campaign is distributing photo.

    Parent
    OB must 'splain since he promised nicer politics (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:53:09 PM EST
    HRC doesn't need to explain, as she's been upfront and lived through horrendous personal attacks.

    If BO personally has been condoning this, or his campaign team doing it (wink wink) behind his back, they need to explain.

    If Obama wasn't running on remaking politics and "returning" civility to the process -- ain't seen it in my lifetime, Bub, but good luck with that -- he and his team definitely need to explain any attempt to capitalize on this, and must get to the bottom of this.

    Team Clinton has every right to demand an explanation for what smells like a familiar Rovian tactic whether it comes from the Rethugs or Team Obama running a page from the "just politics snarfle snarfle snarfle" Bush / Rove playbook.


    Parent

    Novak (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:18:17 PM EST
    turned out to be true, so prolly not the best answer.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#113)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST
    Novak claimed that someone said that someone from the Clinton campaign said that they had "dirt" on Obama.

    I haven't seen any new "dirt" on him released by the Clinton campaign.

    I only know that the Obama campaign milked that story to the max, even after the Clinton campaign clearly denied it.


    Parent

    I find Kathy's take the most likely: A plant (none / 0) (#125)
    by jawbone on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:43:46 PM EST
    probably from the Obama camp.

    Makes sense, in a Rovian way--and they seem to have picked up on some of his election tactics.

    I am so disappointed in TPM, however, for buying into this junk.  I think his emotional commitment to Obama is clouding his judgement.

    Parent

    Class pure class (1.80 / 5) (#17)
    by Aaron on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:36:11 PM EST
    You shouldn't be running this story Armando because it makes the Clintons look bad, and we would want to do that now would we.

    I knew it was going to get ugly, I knew after what happened in South Carolina, and the Muslim e-mails that the Clintons would do anything to win, and this is yet more evidence.

    It's good because by the time we get to the general election, the Republicans won't have anything left, the Clintons will have played all their cards.

    Obama 08, bring on the dirt, we can take it!    :-)

    Obama's Muslim ties (2.50 / 2) (#126)
    by john5750 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:44:23 PM EST
    There are a lot of people who don't like Obama's Muslim ties, like Republicans, racists, othe religions, etc.

    Don't blame Clinton for this.  Try Rove.

    Parent

    certain (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:28:43 PM EST
    Wolfson answered "No, not that I am aware of."

    that is a pretty weak denial.  They don't seem to sure of it.

    For what it's worth (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kmblue on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:27 PM EST
    I think Wolfson is being careful.
    If I were he, I would be afraid a categorical denial would bring some freak out of the woodwork yelling "I did it" whether the confessor had done it or not.  ;)

    Parent
    right (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:46:02 PM EST
    if it were reversed i could see the condemnation, when Clinton does its careful.  Had it been Obama I'm sure insults would have been lobbed.

    Parent
    Jgarza, (none / 0) (#40)
    by kmblue on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:48:49 PM EST
    you seem frustrated.
    Fear not, you'll have plenty of opportunities to offer criticisms on subjects besides this one.
    That's four posts already!

    Parent
    kmblue (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:54:05 PM EST
    is that beyond what you feel is allowable from a non Clinton supporter?

    Sorry but not that i know if not a denial, its passing the buck.

    Parent

    Actually, in context it tells you (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by MarkL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:47:50 PM EST
    everything you need to know, which is that the Clinton campaign did not tell anyone to distribute the photo.
    What more can you ask? You think Wolfson should personally answer for the 1000's of employees and volunteers across the country working for Hillary?

    Parent
    We are all surrogates, it seems. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:49:10 PM EST
    "We are the surrogates we have been (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:54:41 PM EST
    waiting for," I suppose. (Attribution again to the Hopi chief who first said what Obama said that I paraphrased. Full citation information available upon request.)

    Parent
    That is the part of Brooks's ope ed (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:56:57 PM EST
    I most enjoyed.  If we have met the enemy and the enemy is us, why haven't we done something prior to this?

    Parent
    Ask Pogo. (none / 0) (#148)
    by oldpro on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:26 PM EST
    Unless he, too, is in denial.

    Parent
    um its (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:51:51 PM EST
    already been distributed what more do they need to do?

    Parent
    It was on the front page of a (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by MarkL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:55:25 PM EST
    tabloid. What more distribution did it need?!
    And I repeat: this is a non-story.
    The Obama campaign has degenerated into the most obnoxious, puerile whining over the last few months.
    People are already tired of Obama, and he doesn't even have the nomination.
    By November, even Democrats who vote for Obama out of party loyalty will loathe him.

    Parent
    right (none / 0) (#57)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:57:50 PM EST
    if only they were classy enough to say:
    "SHAME ON YOU, MEET ME IN OHIO!"

    because that is the classy non-whinny way to defend against attacks.

    Parent

    Clinton is calling shame over (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by MarkL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:58:23 PM EST
    issues of substance, which this story is not.

    Parent
    Nonsense. (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by TheRealFrank on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:00:32 PM EST
    That was about an actual official Obama campaign flyer, which asserts something that has been proven not to be true.

    This, on the other hand, is so far totally without evidence (except the picture itself, which has been making the rounds in rightwing land for a while).


    Parent

    Frank (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    BINGO.  See my comment down thread.  Put it together, folks.  Clinton gets really good press over the weekend and goes after Obama and so first thing Monday morning we get THIS.

    So transparent that it's laughable.  They couldn't even come up with a fresh picture.

    Parent

    she has praised nafta (1.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:20:35 PM EST
    and she has said she would go after peoples wages.

    why is it Rovian to point that out?

    Parent

    Because (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by BrandingIron on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    it's Rovian to take quotes out of context and twist them.

    Parent
    Uh, bcz Obama will do the same thing-- (5.00 / 0) (#132)
    by jawbone on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:50:08 PM EST
    He has mandates for parents to buy insurance for their children.  And he says that if adults don't get insurance, then need assistance, they will have to pay fines or pay amounts equivalent to premiums. Or something like that. He doesn't address these issues unless pushed.

    He's also going to see his Harry and Louis-type flyer come right back at him from the rightwads when he proposes his plan. Unless his advisers talk him into something entire different, a plan which enlists the magic hand of the marketplace....


    Parent

    It is completely true (none / 0) (#142)
    by Tano on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:57:06 PM EST
    The Clinton mandates are not conditional on any objective showing that the individual really does have an affordable plan available to them. There is a promise that everyone will have such a plan, but if the promise is not 100% fulfilled, then the individual left out is still subject to the mandate.

    Obama has said he would consider mandates, if a case were made that they were necessary, only after it was assured that everyone truly did have an affordable plan in front of them - i.e. that the promises had actually been met.

    That is the crucial difference between mandates-upfront, and mandates down the road if necessary.

    The problem with mandates is that it is guaranteed, given that no program is ever 100% perfect out of the box, that some people will not have an affordable insurance plan in front of them, but will be subject to the mandates nontheless.

    Thats what the mailer refers to, and it is absolutely correct.

    Parent

    Why keep making these silly (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by RalphB on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:06:09 PM EST
    explanations up as you go along?  Has it dawned on you yet that most of us are not buying the latest propaganda?


    Parent
    I have been thinking that (none / 0) (#65)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:01:27 PM EST
    I like hearing his baritone, but I do not want to hear from the White House for four or more years the sort of over-reacting that constantly comes from his campaign. That will not promote dialogue or "unity."

    Parent
    Well, Republicans know how to (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by MarkL on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:03:44 PM EST
    play the victim quite well. Obama may have learned a trick from them.
    Personally I think that overreaction is his Achilles heel. If it weren't for Obama rules, he would have been laughed out of the race for suggesting that his grade school years abroad qualify him to be President, instead of successfully ginning up the outrage over the "kindergarten" joke.

    Parent
    Who Cares (none / 0) (#4)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:29:30 PM EST
    They're just trying to win an election.

    Duh!!

    Parent

    sounds like (1.00 / 0) (#9)
    by Jgarza on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:42 PM EST
    they have lost control of the campaign, must be chaos.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:34:47 PM EST
    I've entered the cul de sac.


    Parent
    Hey, now TL gets the benefit of (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:31:52 PM EST
    participating in campaign conference calls.  Cool.  [I certainly hope you informed Mr. Wolfson that bloggers are pundits, not investigative journalists.]

    durpa... (none / 0) (#16)
    by cdo on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:35:12 PM EST
    wow i just cannot get my panties to twist over this "issue".

    Rule of thumb: if it traced back to Drudge ... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:37:18 PM EST
    You know how Repug smear machine works in the Bush / Rove area of "just politics". (See underlined portion below that I'm reposting here to spare myself retyping.)

    (Subject title: The man who will UNIFY us gets punk'd by Drudge.)

    Riiiiiiiiiighhhhhht.

    I believe less and less that he can do this "unity" thing, and more and more that he'll fold like a cheap accordion when the Drudge / Cheney panzer division shoots at him full force. ("Total" Dick's already straddling the Rethuggernaut and aiming his big blunderbuss faceward. Obama crossing the aisle just saves them the trip.)

    Lock and load, ready aim fire: CLICK CLICK BOOM (to quote Saliva, the laff-inducing hard rock vomit band I had on my personal audio for two weeks.)

    How can Team Obama have missed the pattern? Have they been snoozing the past, gosh, decade and a half? Drudge "creates" the facts for higher media to "report", then higher echelon demons from the RNC feed them to Press the Meat and other media to make them spore on the airwaves.

    To that last paragraph, I'd add LW blogs.

    Also, (OT but a bandwidth saving alert for local FISA bill and 4th amendment wizards:)

    Meanwhile, 4th amendment (warrants) and FISA related is this SCOTUS development:

    WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court has agreed to decide when police without a warrant can search the vehicle of a person who is under arrest.

    Rodney Joseph Gant was handcuffed, seated in the back of a patrol car and under police supervision when Tucson, Ariz., police officers searched his car.

    A sharply divided Arizona Supreme Court ruled that the search violated the Fourth Amendment. The state is asking the U.S. high court to overturn that ruling. [...] (Guardian Feb 25, 2008)

    Wondering what impact this will have on the unconstitutional FISA=helper "tool" that Congress is supposed to deliver or we'll blow up good. (The AP article that's in the Guardian should easily be available elsewhere ... used that one for its short, easily pasted URL for browsers that work better that way.)

    Did anyone ask (none / 0) (#20)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:37:35 PM EST
    Wolfson what more independent reporting could be done to help a campaign that can't do any better than the non-denial that Maggie Williams gave to Politico?  I am perfectly content to accept that the campaign did not do this if the campaign would tell us they were not party to sending the photo to Drudge.  How many chances does Wolfson think they should have to correct the story?  Criticize bloggers all they like but how much is Wolfson, Williams, Ickes and Penn being paid to handle exactly the situation that arises when Drudge or anyone else prints something?  

    They also could ask (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Cream City on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:43:00 PM EST
    why the Obama camp didn't deal with it at a lower level than Plouffe himself -- or even could have opted to not deal with it at all -- considering that now has the story and the photo all over the newswires? Fear of swiftboating doesn't mean being terrified every time they see a sail on the horizon.

    Parent
    Especially since not dealing with it at all.... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:54:19 PM EST
    ...has been a very successful strategy for them. I know that friends of mine who support Obama often site that as a plus, that he just sets the negativity aside and refuses to dignify it with a response. And yet a high level, rapid response to this. I think its because they know when they can whip up a good round of Hillary hate on the blogosphere without going to any trouble. Shame to pass up those opportunities. They can't control what bloggers do. Does Josh Marshall always try to get to the bottom of every crap Drudge headline or was he perhaps talking to someone in the Obama campaign about this? Hey, I can speculate as much as the next person.

    But I have no idea and so I make no such accusations because I'm still adhering to the rather quaint notion that we are all still Democrats.

    Parent

    But this is not about Obama (none / 0) (#93)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:16:47 PM EST
    Clinton's candidacy has been hurt repeatedly by inept responses from Penn, Wolfson, Ickes and others.  These people are paid, and paid mighty well at that, to be able to respond in manner that will reflect well upon her campaign.  This is not the first time they have bungled a situation and these are the sort of mistakes that are costing her the election.  

    Drudge has a readership that is unlike any other on the internet.  If they are not capable enough to recognize the potential downside to such a Drudge piece, put together a sound assertive statement to the effect that it was not an official campaign strategy, they are looking into who was behind the alleged emails and will handle appropriately with the responsible parties when that can be determined, then they can expect these sort of blow ups.  It's not asking much for a high paid staff to do their job and do it well.

    It's high time the Clinton campaign got into the internet age.  They have blown it in so many ways with the support they could have had from many on the blogs and netroots.  Now is not the time to add insult to injury.  Wolfson should back off bloggers until he shows some competence in understanding how quickly the internet amplifies and spreads information or disinformation, whichever the case may be.    

    Parent

    Didn't Drudge LEAD the Right Wing Attack Machine? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:36:27 PM EST
    Isn't fighting against the Right Wing Attack Maching  what HRC is suppose to be soooooo much better at fighting?  After all, she's got all that  experience fighting them during Bill's tenure as President.  

    Well, if her camp ain't responsible for the photo circulation as Drudge at least suggests, seems like they didn't do a very good job avoiding being hit with the blame.  Wonder how well she'll do tomorrow when the next one blows.

    And since we've all become use to parsing, realize that despite what you'd like to believe, no one from  HRC's camp has denied any thing.  They're just saying as far as "I" (the speaker) knows we're not involved (but no mention what they did to find out); we've got a lot of folks on staff (ie too many to talk to and watch over) and aren't planning on investigating (because the answer might stink) until someone provides us with proof we're involved (which would come from Drudge, whom we never believe).  Seems sorta like a catch-22; soemthing like the argument facing plaintiffs in those telecom immunity suits.  

    And all you HRC supporters pulling out the just like Rove and W taunts -- pathetic.  Perhaps we're now learning why the Democrats can't win a Presidential election -- we just like to eat our own.

    Parent

    Obama keeps taking the first bite (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by RalphB on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:01:59 PM EST
    when we eat our own.  They have issued a denial but darned if I know why they should have needed one.


    Parent
    No denial has been issued (1.00 / 0) (#168)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:15:38 PM EST
    Last I checked (and I'll admit, I ain't checking by the minute cuz this story is what it is at this point), all HRC's camp's reps have said is that "as far as I know" we aren't involved.  That's pretty lame, especially for someone seasoned by the GOP hit squads.  

    Parent
    this is ridiculous (5.00 / 0) (#180)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:36:04 PM EST
    Don't you think that it's wise for him to phrase it this way, considering that some exclusive undercover investigation might later reveal that the wife of a man whose second cousin is a janitor at one of the closed WI Clinton campaign offices may or may not have found a copy of the photo in the trash can?

    Come on.  First, you were pi*sed off that Clinton "did" this, and now you are pi*sed off because they didn't deny it to your liking?  

    What response would have made you happy?  Maybe you should sit down and write a letter.

    Parent

    Actually, I'm not pis#ed about this at all (none / 0) (#188)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:47:29 PM EST
    I'm just finding it quite amusing that folks supporting the candidate that is ready from day one to take on the GOP attack machine can't issue a coherent and intelligent denial.  Something as simple as we're checking on it but as far as we know no one one HRC's staff is the source.  Simple really.  The simple fact is that someone in HRC's campaign probably sent an email to someone who sent it to someone who sent it to someone and, whoops, it wound up with Drudge.  Email can bite you as we all know (perhaps that's why W never uses his and his brain deleted all of his).  

    I'm not a press person and I'm not a political operative but I know how this game is played and on this one her camp's cuteness in issuing non-denials has gotten the better of them.  It hasn't helped that this story broke just as we were all noticing the distinct change in HRC's tone from the debate handshake to "shame on you."    It fits into a nice pattern that the MSM likes and will run with.  Not much thought involved and sensational.  So, if you're going to address it; address it.  If not, shut up until you've got the facts to address it.

    Parent

    I'm sure you would've been just as pleased (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by Kathy on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:56:32 PM EST
    with a "we're looking into it."

    What you are doing is penalizing them for being honest--you do realize that, right?

    And I suppose you have no problem with the blanket attack coming out of the Obama camp over this.

    Parent

    it sounds to me (5.00 / 0) (#197)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:58:12 PM EST
    like the Clinton campaign did exactly what you advised. So why are you still pissed?

    Parent
    Where you intending to reply to my comment? n/t (none / 0) (#128)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    not so much reply as supplement (none / 0) (#143)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:57:22 PM EST
    i'm actually in agreement with the thoughts you've expressed.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#151)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:00:23 PM EST
    I couldn't tell if you were adding to mine or not.

    Parent
    independant reporting (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by tree on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:53:40 PM EST
    could include requesting more information(details) from Drudge on how he "obtained" it, and where, and also information on whether the photo was obtainable from other sources. Apparently it was public material.It's not much o an "exclusive" for Drudge.

    If all Drudge said was he "obtained" from a Clinton "staffer" how is the Clinton campaign supposed to immediately and unequivocally deny that any of their  hundreds of staffers was involved without stopping down their campaign for the day or longer to interrogate each one? Is that the intent of Drudge, or of the Obama campaign for making a big stink about the re-publication of a photograph that already existed in the public domain?

    Frankly, its silly for the Obama campaign to make a big deal of this. Yes, he looks a bit silly in the costume, but its not Dukakis in the tank. By making a big deal of it, the Obama campaign is insinuating that there is something wrong about what he did when he dressed that way. Or at least  something wrong with doing it in public. Stupid move on the Obama campaign's part.

    Parent

    Did anyone bother to ask Drudge.... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:57:53 PM EST
    ...or put him on the hot seat. Marshall says he spent the better part of a morning trying to get a comment  from the Clinton campaign. So Drudge is too disreputable to question directly, so why believe him at all? He's the one who needs to put up or shut up. Instead, we are doing his work for him.

    Parent
    Drudge would say: (none / 0) (#64)
    by kmblue on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:01:02 PM EST
    "I must protect my source!"

    Parent
    No doubt...... (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:05:34 PM EST
    ...but you could at least, you know, go through the motions.

    Parent
    I think you are missing the point (none / 0) (#166)
    by standingup on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:14:05 PM EST
    Drudge's reporting is more in line with a tabloid news source but he does have a significant political news following.  Like it or not, simply no way to deny it and to avoid it is a big mistake.  According to Alexa's rankings, the site ranks 5th in traffic of Breaking News sites and 5th in News Directories.  So the thought that this would not be picked up or become a significant news item is naive.  Obama's campaign knows it and the Clinton campaign has used Drudge in the past.

    Perhaps the ultimate example of hard-won experience is the relationship that developed last year, brokered by an outside ally, between the Clinton campaign and a man who was once a sworn enemy: Matt Drudge, the Internet pioneer. (News of the Monica Lewinsky scandal first broke on the Drudge Report.) In a Democratic primary, news that the Clinton campaign is funneling information to Drudge is potentially explosive--few figures inspire more liberal wrath than Drudge. (When I confronted the mole, she confirmed the connection to Drudge, but first asked for anonymity.) Still, Drudge has proved a useful tool for the campaign in framing media coverage. When it became clear that Obama had raised more first-quarter money for the primary race than Clinton had, the Clinton campaign minimized the damage by preemptively leaking its own numbers to Drudge. "Clinton Blows the Field Away" was the headline on an exclusive Drudge story claiming she had raised $36 million. Only later, with much less fanfare, did it become clear that only $19 million would count toward the Democratic primary.

    The Clinton campaign has also used Drudge to go on offense. In one example, an aide confirmed that the campaign sent Drudge a link to a story in which Michelle Obama seemed to take a swipe at Hillary Clinton over Bill's infidelity. The story was presented--from Clinton to Drudge to the public--in a manner that was badly out of context, with a link to an exclusive videotape of Michelle Obama's comment. But it nevertheless dominated the news cycle for 24 hours.

    Bloggers should be asking questions of Drudge but that does not excuse the poor way the Clinton team responded to this particular story.  They were caught unprepared and when asked about it Wolfson decides to lash out at bloggers instead of taking the time to correct the situation?  Sorry, but you only get so many chances and now the story has ballooned as a result of their own mishandling.  

    Parent

    "Not that I'm Aware Of" (none / 0) (#23)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:39:06 PM EST
    Phew... This is what I was hoping for. Even if it's not a hundred percent denial, its close enough. I suspect  the HRC campaign may have knowingly allowed this to become a bigger story by holding off on the denial, which would allow the media and blogs to blow it up. After the media becomes saturated, HRC campaign would claim no involvment ensuring a win-win situation for them where the image of Obama in the garb would be stuck in voter's mind for a longer period of time. Clinton comes away looking clean (sort of). Just a theory.

    Perhaps ... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:52:25 PM EST
    ... but even if true, it's pretty standard stuff.  Avoiding denials, hoping your opponent will over-react, then release tepid denials, hoping they over-react again, etc..

    But the Obama camp really has to watch playing the victim card too often.  

    It may kind of work against Hillary.  Since blaming the Clinton's is virtually a national past-time.  But in the general, it's not going to work.  Especially when the root of the story wasn't created by their oponent.  The Swiftboat stuff, we must remember, were lies.

    The Obama campaign should have just side-stepped the whole matter.  They bit on a non-story. Not wise.

    Parent

    On Maggie Williams watch (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by Chimster on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:05:46 PM EST
    All of these news stories recently... The mocking of Obama, The denouncing Karl Rove tactics, the garb dealyed-denial. All making front page news. This has been a pretty good week for Maggie Williams. I actually think the polls are going to start moving in HRC's direction eventhough some of the tactics may be seen as harsh. Even with the record-breaking viewership of SNL, It's getting interesting now.

    Parent
    I agree ... (none / 0) (#95)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:17:50 PM EST
    it does feel like the Obama fever is breaking. I foresee this being another bad week for Obama.

    And good note on Maggie, there has been a distinct shift since she took over.  

    Parent

    I absolutely agree (none / 0) (#174)
    by esmense on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:25:25 PM EST
    These tactics work in a Democratic primary against a Clinton, but they would backfire badly in a general election.

    But, I think the Obama campaign knows that. For example, the always less than with it former Sen. Bob Kerry makes some awkward, uncool yet meant to be complimentary comment about Barack "Hussein" Obama in some obscure setting and the Obama campaign creates a hew and cry about it in black media outlets, saying that calling attention to his middle name is part of a racist strategy on the part of the Clinton campaign.

    Jon Stewart makes an elaborate (and unfunny) joke about BaracK "Hussein" Obama, connecting his name intentionally to both Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, before a mainstream audience of millions, and nary a word of protest.

    Cynical, hypocritical, political.  

    Parent

    The onus is more on OB than HRC to 'splain (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:29:20 PM EST
    If remaking politics is the centerpiece of his platform, the onus is more on him to explain why his campaign is using tactics, or capitalizing on Right Wing smears of HRC.

    NOT on Team Clinton to issue firmer denials of attempts to smear her by two "enemies".

    Parent

    If you're going to wade into the denial water (none / 0) (#178)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:34:07 PM EST
    You better do it right the first time.  If not, you get what we have right now, a bunch of non-denial denials.  It doesn't matter why they are non-denial denials, they are what they are.  Spin 'em how you want.  

    One of HRC's supposed "strong" points is that she knows the Right Wing Attack Machine and knows how to beat it.  If ol' Drudge can do this to her in one day, perhaps she doesn't know as much as she and her staff thinks she does.  

    At the end of the day, the Clintons and the RWAM have been doing what they've been doing for going on 16 years now.  Ain't that enough.  How much more of this do you want to experience?  Time for someone to say enough is enough.

    Parent

    HRC not responsible for the BS heirarchy in place (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Ellie on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:41:10 PM EST
    She doesn't have to investigate and deny to your satisfaction every gratuitous smear that an entire mob of smearmongers hurl at her.

    In this case:

    • Drudge
    • Talking Points Memo and every other "alternative" source that endorsed that.
    • Left Wing blogs in a greater hurry to castigate "our" side than investigate the RW Rethuggernaut smear machine
    • Team Obama or the campaign AND candidate's cynical attempt to ride this
    • Right Wing pundits like Robert Novak
    • Allegedly liberal or centrist mainstream media sources like CNN

    THIS IS IN ONE DAY.

    Get real.


    Parent

    Stop ranting and read what i'm saying (none / 0) (#203)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:04:53 PM EST
    HRC does NOT have to do anything to my satisfaction and she doesn't have to respond to anything to make me happy.  I don't care.  I expect these and similar stunts to take place during the GE, whomever the nomination goes to.  

    BUT, if she (or her surrogates) do decide to respond, then they NEED TO DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.  And an "as far as I know, no" without further explanation, in this day and age, doesn't even come close to doing that.  As far as any of us know, she and hers didn't do squat.  But, the majority of us here do not have the ability to find out.  Her campaign manager and others speaking for her team do.  So find out and get back to us, or don't say anything at all.  

    And I'll say again, a supposed strength of hers is being able to take on the Right Wing Attack Machine.  The RWAM deals in untruth masquerading as truth -- the same types of things you believe this story (non-story) to be.  If that's the case, then this fiasco illustrates that she might not know as much as she thinks.  Whether because OB played her or Drudge played her or the MSM played her or someone else played her, it doesn't matter.    

    Parent

    "not that I'm aware of" (1.00 / 0) (#120)
    by po on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:40:01 PM EST
    Qualifies as a denial now?!?  Really . . . Come on people.  No one here is aware either, but then none of us have the means of readily finding out do they.  This in marked contrast to person who's peddling the lame a## "not that I'm aware of" denial.  Phew, I'm glad you don't know.  If you don't know it must not be true.  LMAO.

    Parent
    Here's my theory: Drudge hacked (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:43:34 PM EST
    e mail of HRC campaign.

    Now I am beyond curious. (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 01:51:19 PM EST
    Did Wolfson initiate the conference call?  If so, how did he determine whom to include.  Is Technorati his friend?  

    TalkLeft gets dozens of requests (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:25:54 PM EST
    to participate in conference calls from candidates, Democratic leaders in Congress and organizations. It's nothing new.

    Parent
    This was part of (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:27:53 PM EST
    my criteria for "A-List Blogger" in a previous back and forth here in one of BTD's posts.  

    Parent
    Obama wants to hide his heritage (none / 0) (#123)
    by Prabhata on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:42:43 PM EST
    It's stupid, but it seems to me that by jumping on the photo, that's real, Obama is saying that the photo somehow  does not represent him. Dumb!

    I think Obama campaign is (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:54:28 PM EST
    reeling from Farrakhan's statement yesterday and this is just more fall out.

    Parent
    Yes, I find that ... (5.00 / 0) (#192)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:53:16 PM EST
    Kerrifying!

    Parent
    I think the burden of proof (none / 0) (#147)
    by ahazydelirium on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 02:58:12 PM EST
    should have always been on Drudge. To say that this fabricated story needed to be disproved or denied by Hillary and her campaign is, in my mind, entirely unfair. Drudge should have substantive information and evidence to support his claims; Hillary's campaign should not be expected to disprove something that lacks any merit--otherwise, they'd be engaged forever in an endless sea of ridiculous claims.

    Didn't the BO camp (none / 0) (#170)
    by NJDem on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:22:04 PM EST
    also over-react to a story a couple months ago written by Bob (insert profanity) Novak--where he claimed to have received information from inside the HRC camp, anonymously of course--like they would ever talk to him!

    I don't recall the issue, but clearly it was Novak just causing trouble, but BO fell for it.  I think this shows his political naiveté--which HRC should highlight as she continues to emphasize the experience factor.  

    Also, how he refused to sit with her during the SOTU, even though it would have shown party unity?  He said he needed to be asked by her, this after he spent the day being anointed by the Kennedy's.  Yet, knowing how politics works, she accepted the invitation without reservation.  
     

    TPM (none / 0) (#185)
    by Oje on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 03:42:28 PM EST
    And the unsubstantiated accusation that Clinton's campaign "circulated" the photo is back at the top of TPM's links. David Kurtz links to M. J. Rosenberg to school us all on how racist it is if do not conclude that Clinton's campaign initiated the race-baiting at the highest levels.  Sweet!

    This thread is now closed (none / 0) (#202)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Feb 25, 2008 at 04:04:45 PM EST


    Did you ask Wolfson About His Blog (none / 0) (#205)
    by AdrianLesher on Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 07:34:35 AM EST
    item ""Obama once visited '60s `terrorists.'" still on the Clinton site? Since Wolfson is willing to push this item, I question his honesty about whether he was pushing the photo or not.