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Who's Playing the Race Card?

Sean Wilentz, writing today in the New Republic, argues that it is Barack Obama, not Hillary Clinton, who has played the race card in this campaign.

More than any other maneuver, this one has brought Clinton into disrepute with important portions of the Democratic Party. A review of what actually happened shows that the charges that the Clintons played the "race card" were not simply false; they were deliberately manufactured by the Obama camp and trumpeted by a credulous and/or compliant press corps in order to strip away her once formidable majority among black voters and to outrage affluent, college-educated white liberals as well as college students. The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so. Rather the Obama campaign and its supporters, well-prepared to play the "race-baiter card" before the primaries began, launched it with a vengeance when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada--and thereby created a campaign myth that has turned into an incontrovertible truth among political pundits, reporters, and various Obama supporters.

Readers are welcome to weigh in, so long as they don't call anyone, candidates or other commenters, racists. This is about playing the race card, not whether either candidate or anyone on this site is a racist.

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    Just about the day after Clinton won in (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by tigercourse on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:23:50 AM EST
    New Hampshire Jesse Jackson Jr. came out and said Clinton hadn't cried for the people hurt and killed in Katrina. That's when it started. At basically the same time they were calling Bill Clinton's "fairytale" comments racist even though they clearly weren't. When Clinton tried to dirty Obama up with comments on his drug use they somehow turned that into a racial attack.

    It was frankly brilliant politics. Within a week or two everyone on the web and half the people in the media were talking about "race baiting" and Clinton was utterly sullied.

    this is absolutely correct (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:38:41 AM EST
    and that was the precise moment that i stopped sending the obama campaign money and became disillusioned with "the great uniter". they even bragged about it later - "we've consolidated the black vote now". and no, you don't need a link - just pay attention.

    [ Parent ]
    And Jackson's tear comments (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Foxx on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:01:27 PM EST
    were also a coded reference to the silly white woman stereotype.

    Jackson should have been fired, but of course he was doing what the campaign told him to do.

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly, Tigercourse (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by sonya on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32:44 PM EST
    As soon as I heard Junior say those words, I knew Obama's campaign would demonize the Clintons as racists.

    I thought the lowest point was when Obama quoted those lines from the film, "Malcolm X," about being bamboozled, hoodwinked and lied to.  I had never been in his camp, but when he said those words I knew I could never support him.  It turned my stomach because he didn't have to do that, but he did it to make sure that he left no vote behind regardless of the after effects.  I felt that he was exploiting the hopes and fears of black people.  He wants to have it both ways by appealing to "blackness" to get votes while at the same time distancing himself from any issues that might associate him with black people.  I can never forgive him for that.    

    I'm a black woman, and I approve of the above.

    [ Parent ]

    sonya, (none / 0) (#225)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:35:52 PM EST
    thank you for that.  your comment just made my heart swell up with gratitude.  i hope that doesn't sound lame, but that's how i feel.

    [ Parent ]
    Sorry but (none / 0) (#5)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:26:58 AM EST
    Bill Clinton was the one who dug his own ditch with the Jesse Jackson comparison. No one else.

    [ Parent ]
    Bill Clinton did not play the race card (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by melious2 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:36:48 AM EST
    Bill Clinton was just reciting a fact of history that the last black man to run for president won South Carolina with a large margin - so what's the big deal since South Carlina's blacks accounted for more than 50% of the democratic voters.

    I'm AA and I sure did not see it as race-baiting by Bill Clinton.

    [ Parent ]

    actually (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:38:27 AM EST
    the last black man to run for president, Al Sharpton, lost NC to John Edwards.

    [ Parent ]
    Not Viable (none / 0) (#216)
    by cal1942 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:05:52 PM EST
    Sharpton was not a viable candidate.  Jackson, who won the Michigan Democratic primary in 1988, and Obama are viable candidates.

    [ Parent ]
    It was marginalizing (none / 0) (#28)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:41:50 AM EST
    Bill Clinton was trying to suggest that Obama was nothing more than the "black candidate" and that he would soon suffer the same plight as past "black candidates".  

    I don't think it was racist but it was certainly dismissive and condescending.

    [ Parent ]

    flyerhawk, (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:48:37 AM EST
    i can agree with you on how that particular comment seemed - it could definitely be viewed as marginalization. i think most of the other charges were real distortions however - fairytale, MLK, etc - truly taken out of context when one goes back and reads the entire comments.

    [ Parent ]
    Condescending? (none / 0) (#214)
    by cal1942 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:46:07 PM EST
    It's normal to dissect the outcome of any election. Campaigns that fail to examine the reason(s) for any outcome are very shortlived.

    It's entirely proper to examine the demographics of the electorate and compare historic results, that's normal operating procedure.

    Making the assumption that Clinton was implying that Obama would encounter the same fate as other African-American candidates is, I believe, a real stretch. You really have to want to see it.

    I watched the entire clip over and over and over again because Josh Marshall had made a similar charge. The only thing I saw was that Marshall like other DLC types was in the bag for Obama.

    Would it be preferable that Clinton lie when asked about the election, to invent something out of whole cloth?

    [ Parent ]

    The media (none / 0) (#147)
    by Practically Lactating on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:33:06 PM EST
    recited this same fact on more than one occasion when I was watching the coverage. That was before BC said a word and I don't remember any outrage.

    If a woman had won SC at some point in the past, I am positive we would have heard that piece of trivia recited and no one would have blinked.

    [ Parent ]

    thank you melious. i feel kinda dumb here (none / 0) (#227)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:39:07 PM EST
    for saying this, but every time anyone in the aa community defends the clintons, i feel so grateful.  i know it's not easy.

    [ Parent ]
    c'mon. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by ajain on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:41:57 AM EST
    In that strain of thought I think we should agree that everytime someone compares Hillary Clinton to Golda Mier or Margaret Thatcher (none of whom are like Hillary in ither ideology or governing style) we should call them sexists.

    [ Parent ]
    Not only was race baiting a campaign strategy (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by esmense on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:34:06 PM EST
    Obama supporters in the media and the blogosphere knew it was, and have been complicit in it.

    Following is a copy of an email response I received from Josh Marshall on January 12 when I expressed concern about the race baiting by Obama "supporters" and its possible undermining of the campaign's message, along with my original message. (I was an Obama supporter at the time). The only thing left out is, for my own protection, my name and email address. In it, Josh confirms that this race-baiting was part of an organized tactic of the campaign, not just free-lancing "supporters." At the time, he was also concerned that it might have detrimental affects -- but, after its success in the South Carolina primary, he jumped on the bandwagon and started intentionally pushing the meme. On his website he, like you, used Clinton's Jesse Jackson comment as his excuse -- without revealing that he was knowingly aiding the campaign's strategy. His response appears first, my original email to him under his response. As you can see, I was quite naive.

    Subject: Re: "Racist" statements and "the Bradley effect"

    There's another factor operating in the background.  It's not just Obama's supporters.  The campaign itself was actively engaging this debate this week.  Toward the end, I think they realized that whatever the merits of their claims against the Clinton campaign, this didn't necessarily help them.  And I think they're trying to dial back the whole conversation.  

    On 1/12/08 10:10 AM, ""  wrote:

    Josh:

    Just an observation as a marketing professional -- the journalists and supporters who are nitpicking every Obama competitor's statements for racist content and pushing the "Bradley effect" storyline are doing Obama a great disservice. By inviting their readers and potential voters to view and vet every political criticism of, and every political criticizer of, Obama and his campaign statements and appeals through the prism of racism, they are directly contradicting and weakening his message of "change" and his assertion that he is the candidate who can get us beyond, or help us rise above, our acrimonious racial history.

    Some Obama supporters, white as well as black, appear to believe this can help create solidarity with African American voters and, in some cases, diminish the popularity of the Clintons within the African American community. But I don't understand why they think this approach -- which undermines their candidate's most powerful message -- is necessary or likely to be effective.  To win African American voters from Clinton to Obama, it's not necessary to convince them that the Clinton's are racist. (Which, no matter how minutely and tendentiously you parse their statements, would be a difficult job within a community that knows them and genuinely likes them.) But it necessary to convince African Americans that Obama, if he wins, will be at least as good, if not much, much better, on the issues that most affect their lives. That "change" and "reaching across the aisle" doesn't mean accomodating white constituencies at their expense. They also have to convince them that Obama CAN win  -- a message that is undermined by the racism-in-every- statement/even-our-friends-are-racist/"Bradley affect" storylines. Those storylines don't promote hope or build on the African American community's natural desire to see, and help, one of their own succeed -- they promote hopelessness, paranoia and cynicism.

    The campaign is also contradicting Obama message of "change" and moving beyond "the politics of the past" by running around seeking the endorsement of too many politicians from the past. It may be hard to tell John Kerry that this isn't the right time for his endorsement (or the right place -- I don't remember Kerry being all that popular in South Carolina), but the Obama campaign should have done so. If you are running as the insurgent candidate, getting endorsed by the establishment is only useful AFTER the insurgency has been successful, as a symbol OF its new power.

    These two developments, coming in this critical period after his loss in New Hampshire, makes me wonder if Obama's team is losing control of their message.

    [ Parent ]

    So being compared to Jesse Jackson is Bad? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:29:01 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Exactly. (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by lobary on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:56:09 AM EST
    I made that same comparison many times well before Bill Clinton ever said it, so I must be a race-baiter, too. Never mind that I actually voted for Jesse Jackson in 1988. In the Texas Democratic primary.

    This dishonest attack on the Clintons really sticks in my craw. Does anyone remember "Keep Hope Alive?" The Rainbow Coalition? Jesse Jackson's cross-racial appeal in 1988 and his strong support among the college crowd? I do. Everyone has forgotten how incredibly popular he was then. He was largely responsible for the high turnout in the '88 Texas primary. The Obama/Jackson comparison wasn't only a racial one from where I stood as a former Jackson supporter. I thought Clinton, who remembers that campaign, was also comparing their respective messages and their ability to connect with the electorate through their unmatched oratorical skills. If so-called progressives like Josh Marshall and Markos Moulitsas could remember the 1988 Jesse Jackson, they might not have hammered a Democrat over nonsense. But even the liberal web has to play by the Clinton Rules, so every action and every word from the Clinton camp is filtered through an unchecked cynicism and distrust of all things Clinton by the liberal blog heavyweights.

     

    [ Parent ]

    Agree. (none / 0) (#103)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:11:43 PM EST
    I remember the Jackson campaign.  I was in high school and went to a rally in rural, mostly white Appalachia.  Sure it was late in the primary season and the nomination was already locked up, but there was a really big crowd there.  Jackson had reasonable support from organized labor, too.  It was the first real political event I attended; Jackson was the first real national politician I ever saw - and even though we were early, we couldn't get close to the stage, there were so many people there.

    [ Parent ]
    Jackson was running as a true progressive. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by lobary on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:31:03 PM EST
    If Obama's campaign went beyond the Hope/Unity schtick and took pride in being called "liberal," he'd be a lot more like Jesse Jackson and less like Ronald Reagan. I'd vote for that guy.

    [ Parent ]
    Marshall /Moulitsas (none / 0) (#215)
    by cal1942 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:03:14 PM EST
    Marshall is I believe about mid or just past mid thirties and Moulitsas about the same.

    That would put both at about 17 in 1988 and at the time didn't Moulitsas consider himself a Republican.

    They may have missed that Jackson also won the Michigan Democratic primary in 1988.

    [ Parent ]

    You Must Have Missed (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:33:57 AM EST
    That story. Here is a link, so you can catch up, from BTD on the subject.

    [ Parent ]
    I have not missed the story is just (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:37:10 AM EST
    that it was not racist it was made racist by the press and the subsequent arguments.  It was a statement of fact that Jesse did win SC that did not necessarily translate into his becoming the nominee.  Trying to make it into anything else is playing the race card in my opinion.  Anyway It was a snark remark

    [ Parent ]
    Mine Too (snark) (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:39:13 AM EST
    In any case BTD nails it in the link above.

    [ Parent ]
    Sombody asks you about an election in 2008 (none / 0) (#40)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:50:30 AM EST
    do you immediately cite information from an election 20+ years ago?  What does the 1988 and 1984 results have anything to do with anything?  (Note: in 1988 and 1984, the nominee had already essentially been decided, and so Jackson's performance was completely irrelevant even at the time of his victories).

    Far more relevant, when asked in 2008 about the SC landscape might be to, say, mention the primary of 2004 (which Edwards won), or 2000?  But 1988 and 1984?

    What possible connection or relevance do those primaries have for anything in the 2008 primary.  There's only one connection I can think of: race.

    I have a lot of respect for Bill Clinton.  He's a very very smart man.  I can't think of any other reason why he would suddenly talk about primaries from 20+ years ago, as if all the intervening history in SC didn't exist.

    And even if one wanted to give Bill Clinton the benefit of the doubt, surely one can't be blamed for thinking he injected race into it.

    It all, in my mind, comes down to a simple question: when asked about a 2008 contest, why do you gratuitiously bring up primaries from 20+ years earlier?

    [ Parent ]

    Why is your question so important? (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:02:57 PM EST
    Everybody is bringing up old elections. Obama brought up Reagan and that, thankfully, was a long time ago. Personally I thought Bill's comment was snarky and marginalizing since I voted for Jesse Jackson 20 years ago myself but the question of "why bring up an election that was 20 years ago" seems to be a little bit too much of the mind-reading variety. Something that I think we all have done too much of in this campaign. Sometimes you've just got to say: "Who knows why he said that stupid thing that he said."

    [ Parent ]
    your making my point (none / 0) (#97)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:10:19 PM EST
    Obama brought up Reagan because he was giving an example of a similarity.  Whatever else Reagan was, he was able to be a "Great Communicator."  He made people "feel good about America" again (something that the left did not do much of, and why they lost more elections than they should have).

    But, the point was that he brought it up because of a similarity.

    So -- what is the similarity between the 2008 primary (which hadn't occurred at the time), and Jackson's 1988 and 1984 victories?

    Nu?, What's the similarity?

    Wouldn't nearly everyone answer that question based on race?  So, is it so far fetched to then think that Clinton brought race into it?

    I'm not saying he's racist, because I don't believe he is.  But he did inject race into the discussion.

    [ Parent ]

    Well of course there's a similarity.... (none / 0) (#150)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:37:32 PM EST
    Bill Clinton's comments clearly were about race because the Democratic voters who overwhelming gave the victory to Obama and Jackson were African American and because they were the majority Dems in that state. Race was already the subject at that point, in wasn't even a subtext. He was essentially saying let's see what happens in a state where the Democratic electorate is not over 50% black. And we all found out the answer to that question. He was wrong, white people did vote for Obama. But frankly, most of the black people I know and talk to every day were just as surprised as Bill Clinton to discover that so many white people would vote for Obama. Happily surprised, I might add.

    But it seems that some people are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Sometimes it's said that its better if we talk about race than if we don't, but then it's also so easy to twist words around and read meanings into things.  Remember that Bill Clinton was accused of race baiting and playing the race card before he even made the Jesse Jackson comment, when his "fairy tale" remarks were characterized as race baiting.

    [ Parent ]

    Wilentz has a reasonable explanation. (none / 0) (#88)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:07:47 PM EST
    Wilentz has a reasonable explanation, but I'm not particularly sold on it.  Wilentz argues that the last candidates to win SC by significant margins in meaningful ways were Edwards in 2004 and Clinton in 1992.  Edwards won with a plurality, not a majority, at 45%, and he was still in the race, possibly second but maybe third in his home state.  I do agree that mentioning Edwards in that context would have been a gratuitous piling on.

    Clinton won in 1992 with 69% of the vote, much higher than Edwards or Obama, for that matter.  Boasting about that would have 1. seemed like, well, boasting, and 2. set up a negative contrast with his wife's campaign.

    So he reaches back to Jackson.

    I can see why the Jackson comment was interpreted negatively; I don't give Clinton a complete pass on this.  But I'm even more disappointed by the press, for that matter.  Jackson was not "just the black candidate" in 1984 and 1988.  He won 10 primaries in '88, and forced some important reforms on the Democratic party.  The press reduced Jackson's candidacy - and its importance - to race.  Heck, Jackson himself called his voters the "Rainbow Coalition" - and believe it or not, it felt important at the time, an affirmation of liberal Democratic values in an era when the Republicans were not remotely shy about using race-baiting politics - the southern strategy - of their own, repeatedly, to win elections.  

    That said, the remark came after the South Carolina victory - after two weeks when various Obama surrogates and a compliant press repeatedly made claims - against all reason - that the Clinton campaign was trying to paint Obama as "the black candidate" in SC.  That's absurd: it wouldn't serve them in SC.  Man.  It still makes me depressed.

    [ Parent ]

    He may not have been (none / 0) (#107)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:12:42 PM EST
    just the "black candidate" back then but the last 20 years have certainly painted him as the "black politician".  

    [ Parent ]
    So do you think it's okay (none / 0) (#151)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:38:42 PM EST
    for either Obama supporters or the MSM to accede to that characterization?  I don't.   I really don't.  There are plenty of Democrats who have excellent opinions of Jackson and who did not view his run in 1988 as a "black" candidacy, as you can see from my personal testimonial above.  

    Again, I do understand and appreciate why and how folks interpret that comment negative.  Clinton doesn't get a complete pass on that, IMO.  He just doesn't.  However, the "Clintons are race-baiters" meme had already been constricted and whipped up into a stiff, peaked, rather nasty frenzy by that point - based on a whole bunch of conflated and contrived issues.  The Obama campaign's "South Carolina" memo came out two weeks before, and folks in the press and Obama surrogates kept bringing it up, repeatedly, in ways that maligned the Clintons unfairly and closed off any discussion.  

    [ Parent ]

    it was right _before_ the primary (none / 0) (#108)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:12:44 PM EST
    ... not two weeks after!

    [ Parent ]
    Nope. (none / 0) (#145)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32:30 PM EST
    I know that you are wrong.  The comment about JJSr. came late in the day on the day of the Democratic primary in SC (a Saturday).  The charges that the Clintons had been race-baiting had already been swirling in the blogosphere and elsewhere for two and a half weeks leading up to the primary, on the blogosphere and elsewhere.

    In case I wasn't clear, I was pointing out that the unfair "race-baiting" accusations against Bill Clinton had been going on for two weeks before he made that comment, on the afternoon of the SC primary.  

    [ Parent ]

    yes, you are right (none / 0) (#157)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:51:39 PM EST
    his remarks were, indeed, on the day of the primary.

    I thought you had said it happened two weeks after the primary.

    But back to my main point.  It seemed very clear that Bill Clinton was minimizing the significance of Obama's victory, claiming that he won it the way he did primarily because SC has a black population proportionally larger than other states.

    There's nothing wrong with minimizing the significance of one's opponents' victories -- everybody does it.  And I think that's all Clinton meant.

    But, it had the effect of painting Obama as "the candidate for blacks", and people took it an a gratuitous injection of race into the contest.

    [ Parent ]

    Cool. We (mostly) agree. (none / 0) (#163)
    by liminal on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:04:45 PM EST
    I think we mostly agree then; I wasn't happy with the comment.  That said, were it not for the concerted campaign of the prior 2 weeks to paint Clinton as a race-baiter, I doubt that that single comment, would have had the legs it did.


    [ Parent ]
    Minimizing Victory (none / 0) (#217)
    by cal1942 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:25:39 PM EST
    Minimizing a victory is common place and certainly not racist.

    Obama, Edwards (my candidate), Richardson and Biden took themselves off the Michigan ballot one day before the deadline and AFTER the DNC levied the death penalty, to minimize a certain Clinton victory in Michigan.

    [ Parent ]

    How certain... (none / 0) (#218)
    by Alec82 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:50:57 PM EST
    ...was Senator Clinton's victory in Michigan in a contested campaign?  For various reasons I think that Senator Edwards or Senator Obama would have had a pretty good shot at a contested Michigan primary, particularly in light of the results in Iowa.  

     This is not about President Clinton being racist, it is whether or not he was trying to portray Senator Obama as an also-ran black candidate, alienating black voters in the process.  It did not have to be that way, as Frank Rich pointed out.  

    [ Parent ]

    i don't think he was trying to do anything. (none / 0) (#230)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:59:27 PM EST
    quite frankly i think he just felt hurt and betrayed by the aa community.

    [ Parent ]
    thanks florida resident for your common (none / 0) (#115)
    by hellothere on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:16:14 PM EST
    sense. i do believe that respect for all races and cultures should be enforced. but the degree of political correct with the obama campaign using it to beat up on the clintons is annoying at best. i just read that william f buckley has died. say what you will about him, but note this. he was a verbal dream in that he would debate and didn't have to slime. he was close friends with a number of liberals and they debated, had a good time and drank to each other. the politcal context today is worrying. the false "hope" and the bickering is just sad. the phony journalists spilling their bull. i find it insulting no matter who the target is.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, calling Gore Vidal a "queer" on TV (none / 0) (#177)
    by JJE on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:26:43 PM EST
    wasn't slimy at all.  what a great guy, that WFB!

    [ Parent ]
    i didn't claim the guy was a saint. (none / 0) (#209)
    by hellothere on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:23:06 PM EST
    in fact it was rude, crude and not acceptable for him to say tht. that is the problem, we take one stupid comment and ruin a career. well maybe careers in a number of cases should be ruined. i offered that up in relation to his overall relationship with a number of liberals. take from it what you want for nothing.

    [ Parent ]
    I agreed with JJ Sr. The comment (none / 0) (#22)
    by hairspray on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:39:52 AM EST
    was not intended as a racial slur. My God is everything a racial slur?

    [ Parent ]
    I posted this about a gazillion times on this web, (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by derridog on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:09:01 PM EST
    but, it's like Bill Maher said -didn't everyone know Obama was black before the SC election?

    Bill is friends with Jesse Jackson.  Jackson worked right alongside Martin Luther King (whom we know we can't compare to anyone, including Lyndon Johnson, who actually mobilized the government to support King and the Civil Rights movement) during the 60s. He was there when King was shot. He has run for President and spoken up on things for forty years and been given the Clinton Rule treatment of ridicule by the press the entire time.
    He has a lot of guts and courage and I was a delegate for him in New Mexico in 1988.

    So, tell me, why is it an insult to say Jesse Jackson and Obama in the same breath?  i think it's an insult to Jackson frankly.

    [ Parent ]

    Bill Mahr (none / 0) (#220)
    by auntmo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 07:01:19 PM EST
    Mahr  also  said,  "We  owe  more  to  Black people  than we  do  to  women."  

    I haven't  watched him since.

    [ Parent ]

    as much of a racial slur... (none / 0) (#42)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:51:03 AM EST
    as "periodically" is a sexist slur?

    [ Parent ]
    Since you are clearly not a woman, let (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by derridog on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:18:30 PM EST
    me explain it to you in simple terms.  Women have periods. They sometimes are down when they have periods or even get upset.   I want to make sure you get this.  

    Many times men say things like "she must be on the rag" (do you want me to explain what "rag" refers to?) to express hostile feelings towards women who might be a tad emotional, angry or even uppity (meaning they challenge men's perception of what their proper role is in life-- one of submission is the one most guys prefer).

    Okay now... now go over Obama's statement one more time with this crib sheet in hand and see if you can get it now.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah I get that (none / 0) (#124)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    You ASSUME an intent by Obama.  You ignore the fact that the LAST thing the Obama campaign would want to do is alienate women.  You ignore the fact that the Clinton campaign, the entire campaign and not just Hillary, has REPEATEDLY flipped from conciliatory/respectful to hostile/attacking.  Instead you want to assume that Obama wants to use locker room humor to attack Hillary.

    Yet you then want to say "Oh Bill didn't mean anything bad when he said that. You're just taking it the wrong way"

    [ Parent ]

    our society is much (none / 0) (#232)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:14:28 PM EST
    less self-conscious or aware of its misogynistic thinking than it is about its racist thinking--and this is pretty sad if you think about it, considering how unaware so many people are of the subtle racism that pervades our society.  it's like a counter-feminist revolution has arrived, with misogyny almost always getting a free pass.

    which is why sexism has flown under the radar throughout this campaign, while any allegation of racism (whether real or perceived) has been magnified exponentially and widely publicized.  

    and what you characterize as "flipped," i see as a campaign trying its damnedest to restrain itself in the face of unscrupulous hit jobs by obama--until, inevitably, they get so fed up with the mistreatment that they actually defend themselves.

    [ Parent ]

    but I am married to a woman (none / 0) (#172)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:20:41 PM EST
    I do understand the "she must be on the rag" slur, and, yes, I've heard it before.  You don't need to explain it to me.

    But if you could stop, just for the duration of this post, and hear me out, I'd appreciate it -- just for the purposes of looking at it from a different angle, and see if it's not unreasonable.

    The press enjoy (Tim Russert last night was an extreme example of it) asking one candidate about the most extreme statements that the other candidate (or their campaign) has just made -- presumably in order to provoke an exciting fight.

    Obama's way of handling it is generally to not take the bait, but rather excuse the comment.

    And so, for example, last night, when they showed the film clip of HRC talking about Obama and "celestial choirs", etc.

    Now, Obama could have attacked the overplayed meme that HRC does stuff and Obama just talks stuff and is naive.  But he didn't.  He defused the issue by saying  "I thought Senator Clinton showed some good humor there."

    Another time, (a few weeks back) when Bill Clinton said something kinda harsh (I don't remember what it was), Obama again refused to take the bait, and said something like "I understand they are frustrated...."

    So, too, here.  HRC is obviously unhappy with how her campaign (insert Mark Penn slam here).  HRC has just lost an important union endorsement, and then criticized Obama for watering down a bill that HRC herself voted for!  It was an off-the-wall criticism if HRC herself voted for it?  Why, then, the harsh criticism, Obama was asked.  He said "I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she's feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal... We don't need more fighting, we need some getting together, solving some problems."

    Isn't it just possible, just possible, that Obama is not a sexist and didn't mean it the way that some people are taking it?  Or that he meant "down in the polls?"

    Yes, there is real sexism out there (Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, et al, ought to have their punditry-licenses revoked over this issue).  But here?  Isn't is just possible he had a poor choice of words?  It clearly wasn't scripted (if you've seen the YouTube) and he was fumbling around for words.  (In real life, it comes more across like "I understand that, you know, Senator Clinton ... um ... periodically, when she's feeling ... uh down ... launches attacks, and ... uh as a way of - of ... you know, trying to boost her ... uh boost her appeal.")

    Do you see, at all, my point, even if you disagree with it?  Can you agree that reasonable minds might differ over it?

    And can you see that some people think that this whole issue is the whole "victimology" thing, over who can take more umbrage at the other candidate's words?

    I'll admit that periodically I feel down about how much Obama and Clinton supporters trash each other.  And I'm a guy.  Go figure!


    [ Parent ]

    heh, your last line (none / 0) (#233)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:19:39 PM EST
    made me laugh.  as a clinton supporter and a woman, yes--i can see your point, and i can agree that reasonable minds might differ over it.  frankly i'm undecided on the "periodically" comment myself.

    [ Parent ]
    I'll try this once more (none / 0) (#105)
    by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:12:16 PM EST
    It wasn't just the word "periodically". It was periodically, when she's "FEELING down", she "launches attacks". It was said in response to Clinton ads that criticized him for not agreeing to a debate in Wisconsin. It played into stereotypes about women being emotional creatures. I've seen that kind of sh*t used against women in the workplace all the time. Don't fight back, don't get angry or you'll be accused of being hysterical.If you don't see it, then I guess you've never had your competence or authority or self-respect questioned and dismissed by some jerk who can't control his own emotions. But please, don't assume that the problem was just the work "periodically". It would have been just as sexist without that word. "Periodically" was just the icing on the cake.  

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe there really is (none / 0) (#113)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:15:45 PM EST
    no innate difference between the races, but there is between the sexes?

    [ Parent ]
    And had he said (none / 0) (#116)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:16:18 PM EST
    "Periodically when she's feeling down ABOUT HER campaign she launches into attacks" would that have been sexist?  

    What then?  Still sexist?  

    Oh, ftr, I am 6'2" 250 Lb white male and I regularly get challenged by overly emotional men at the workplace who take any sort of criticism as a blood insult.  

    [ Parent ]

    if he'd said (none / 0) (#196)
    by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:16:34 PM EST
    "when her campaign is down in the polls" and left out the "feeling" word, I would have accepted it as non-sexist. She was down in the polls, and she was proposing more debates as a tactic to increase her polling. There was no indication that she was "feeling" down or that her "feelings" had anything to do with her campaign ads. It was all standard politics, so he should have treated it like that. Mention that she was trailing in the polls, and when candidates are trailing they usually launch attacks against the front runner.

     As I said before, I think that Obama sounded tired and very awkward when he said it and am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't purposely play into gender stereotypes. But the wording was still overtly sexist.

    "Oh, ftr, I am 6'2" 250 Lb white male and I regularly get challenged by overly emotional men at the workplace who take any sort of criticism as a blood insult."

    I'm not saying that men in general or individually don't get emotional, sometimes hysterically so.  But as a man, I bet that no other man has ever tried to diminish your authority or your thoughts or feelings by diminishing your gender. Unless of course, you are gay, and even then the diminishment  will usually take the form of comparing you to a woman. As if gays can't be real men.    

    [ Parent ]

    Actually (none / 0) (#197)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:26:04 PM EST
     But as a man, I bet that no other man has ever tried to diminish your authority or your thoughts or feelings by diminishing your gender.

    yes.  Men do it all the time by claiming they aren't manly enough.  And no I'm not gay.  

    And women certainly have disparaged me for my gender in the workplace.  

    [ Parent ]

    by claiming THEY (none / 0) (#201)
    by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:33:09 PM EST
    aren't manly enough? I think you mean by claiming YOU aren't manly enough. BTW, that's not disparaging your gender. Its disparaging YOU by pretending that you don't live up to your gender. Its putting male gender above female gender.

    Women aren't saints either.  Some women disparage men(which is why I specifically referred to men only)but it doesn't mean that sexism doesn't exist, or that it supports your point that the reference couldn't have been sexist.

    [ Parent ]

    wow. (none / 0) (#234)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:23:32 PM EST
    tree, you rock.  thank you for that.

    [ Parent ]
    You're right on target tree (none / 0) (#178)
    by mexboy on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:26:45 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    you forgot "to broaden her appeal" (none / 0) (#179)
    by JJE on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 01:30:12 PM EST
    which makes the quote a description of a calculated political strategy, the opposite of an emotional woman lashing out irrationally.  But don't let facts get in the way of your "poor Hillary attacked by the sexist menz!" meme.

    [ Parent ]
    it just meakes it sound like (none / 0) (#198)
    by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:26:16 PM EST
    accusing her of playing the gender card. I've heard it played both ways against women. We are too emotional and irrational. We are cold and calculating and feign our emotions to manipulate men into doing what we want. I know its been used against Clinton both ways. ( And no, Im not referring to the Obama campaign itself, but to much of the media, some bloggers, some Clinton-haters, and some Obama supporters who think politics is like sports where you are supposed to hate and denigrate the team that opposes your team.)

    But, to paraphrase, don't let facts get in the way of you sounding smug.

    [ Parent ]

    I have seen a lot of vitrol... (none / 0) (#207)
    by Alec82 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 04:02:59 PM EST
    ...emanating from Senator Clinton's supporters, as well as Senator Obama's.  

     Look, do I think the media is fair to Senator Clinton? No, of course not.  The cynicism surrounding her emotional display is but one example.  At that point, I was still defending her campaign and I still believed she would be a strong president, despite my extreme misgivings about the Iraq war vote.  I found the media attention to her laughter extremely off-putting.  I had a lot of questions about Senator Obama's electability.  

     But you know, it is not only about media bias.  I find it very hard to believe that President Clinton was not attempting to cast Senator Obama as the also ran black candidate.  Whether you would call it racist or race baiting is beside the point; it had the effect of alienating massive numbers of African American voters.  It reminded those of us who grew up in the 90s that the political (as opposed to economic) landscape of President Clinton was toxic and fueled the Republican machine we see today.  

     So no, I do not think Senator Obama is being sexist, I do not believe Senator Clinton is being racist (although her husband is apparently not above opening the door) and I do not regard any of the episodes apart from South Carolina as extremely troubling in that regard.  Nevertheless, I do believe Senator Clinton's campaign management team is not serving her well, and if she loses this race they may be the reason.  

    [ Parent ]

    Ironically (none / 0) (#193)
    by ahazydelirium on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 02:01:02 PM EST
    Jesse Jackson came out as saying that Bill's comments were not racist.

    Source

    [ Parent ]

    Slander Campaign (none / 0) (#144)
    by 1jane on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:32:27 PM EST
    Racial discrimination is treating people differently through a process of social division into categories.

    Institutional racism is racial discrimination by governments, corporations, educational institutions or other large organizations with the power to influence the lives of many individuals.

    There is nothing stereotypically "black" about Obama's campaign. Racist assumptions and sexist assumptions have been blown away by both candidates.

    Successful "black" America gets very little coverage. Crimes by black Americans are still the lede in newspapers and on TV. It takes a Tiger Woods succeeding at the whitest of sports or a Condoleeza Rice sitting around Camp David  advising the President to get into peoples living rooms on their TV's.

    Succeeding in white America means conguering white politics. By any definition, political institutions are racist. Deal with it but don't lie about it.

    [ Parent ]

    what are you even talking about here? (none / 0) (#235)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:41:05 PM EST
    are you saying that obama didn't in fact paint the clintons as playing the race-baiting card, or are you saying that even if he did, going nuclear like this in a dem primary was somehow justified by the need to conquer white politics?  to me the ends do not justify the means.

    oh, and you're wrong about sexist assumptions having been blown away, because you've demonstrated those very assumptions yourself with your "fangs" comment recently.  yes, women are capable of being misogynistic.  based on my limited observations of you as a commenter here, i'd guess that you're one of those women.  i hope you'll prove me wrong.

    [ Parent ]

    Time line is wrong (none / 0) (#250)
    by bison on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 10:53:01 PM EST
    The time line is wrong.  The race baiting started before the Iowa primaries. Let us not forget about the drug references by the head of Clinton's campaign in NH and the "shucking and jiving" comments by Cuomo both occurred before the Iowa primaries- both have racial connotations.

    [ Parent ]
    All Hands on Deck (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by Athena on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:24:11 AM EST
    Wilentz carefully points out how casual charges of racism - which immediately silence debate and paralyze analysis - are skillfully played race cards.  This is what happened in S.C. - and the Clinton campaign has been on the (unfair) defensive ever since for a narrative that was initiated by the Obama campaign and lapped up by the press.

    As Wilentz closes his article - "by any means necessary" - largely explains how the Obama campaign exploited racial sensitivities to distort objectively neutral and factual statements into racial animus - it worked for them very well.

    Further (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Athena on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:27:33 AM EST
    I'll add that the contrived introduction of racial animus had the effect of turning Clinton from an opponent into an enemy - with all of the attendant hostility.

    [ Parent ]
    Whereas the incessant (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:29:05 AM EST
    charges of sexism were all in good fun?

    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately ... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by robrecht on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:02:02 PM EST
    ... sexism is still relatively acceptable so those charges did not have much effect.  I find most of these charges from supporters on both sides to be rather divisive.  We even had a silly argument here as to which was worse, racism or sexism, as if either one might be more acceptable.  As Democrats we should be able to discuss these problems in the campaigns and in society in a more productive manner.  Supporters should follow the lead of their candidates more and degenerate into sniping that only helps Republicans.

    [ Parent ]
    NOT degenerate !!! Oops. (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by robrecht on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:53 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Completely agree (none / 0) (#78)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:05:08 PM EST
    I don't like to see either charge being levied at the other.  IMO, the vast majority of the charges are based on flawed inferences rather than intentional attacks by either campaign.  

    [ Parent ]
    both racism and sexism are reprehensible. (none / 0) (#236)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:46:45 PM EST
    this doesn't change the fact that in a democratic party primary in today's american society, only one of them is nuclear.

    [ Parent ]
    And doesn't even deal with MO (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:08:12 PM EST
    -- the Other Obama, who has played a big part in this since at least Iowa. I hope this is the beginning of Wilentz' next book, on this campaign. I have tried throughout to see how all this will look in such a book . . . and I fear that this party and this country will not look good.

    [ Parent ]
    Playing the fear card (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:25:34 AM EST
    I don't think anyone was upset about Garbgate because it was race baiting.  It was fear baiting using the oft used smear of Obama as crypto-Muslim.

    So now we have to Fear Muslims? (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:29:55 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    no one said (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jgarza on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:36:28 AM EST
    we have to fear Muslims, but reality is people do.  Obama points out every time that these assertions are offensive to him because he isn't Muslim, and offensive to Muslims, because they imply being Muslim is bad.

    [ Parent ]
    But No One (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:40:51 AM EST
    Ever said he was muslim.  And if they did they were fired.


    [ Parent ]
    huh? (none / 0) (#52)
    by A DC Wonk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:56:12 AM EST
    Fox and their ilk were indeed peddling that he is a Muslim.  And that he went to a Midrassa.  And they keep hyping about his middle name.  And he doesn't salute the flag, and that he took his oath on a Koran, etc etc.  Yes, all this has been tried out against Obama already.

    It's the meme that the GOP is trying out right now.  That Obama is of "questionable" loyalty.  Harp on his middle name, talk about the Midrassa, even CNN had a poll on whether Obama was patriotic enough.

    [ Parent ]

    i think edgar is talking about the clinton camp. (none / 0) (#237)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:48:39 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    i hope you're not suggesting (none / 0) (#238)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:50:41 PM EST
    that clinton assume responsibility for all gop attacks on obama as well.  seriously, that's just taking the obama rules way too far.

    [ Parent ]
    Only in the eyes of Republicans and now (none / 0) (#30)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:42:12 AM EST
    I guess the Obama followers. :-)  Look his reaction was knee jerked and offensive to decent muslims around the world even though I know it was not meant to be.  I see you point of view but we have to be careful to think that we must react defensive because someone puts out a picture of us dressed in muslim garb, it can give the impression to muslim around the world that being muslim is a bad thing for us.

    [ Parent ]
    "and offensive to Muslims..." (none / 0) (#121)
    by tree on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:20:15 PM EST
     because they imply being Muslim is bad."

    Hear,hear. One of my problems with Obama's campaign is that I haven't heard him say loud and clear that there's nothing inherently bad about being Muslim. Mostly I hear silence. Yes, he should make very clear that he's Christian, because that's what he is. But he should also strongly state that being Muslim is not a negative, even though some bigots assume it is.
     Same thing with the garb flap. Be proud. Stand up against RW framing.

    [ Parent ]

    Are you being intentionally obtuse? (none / 0) (#20)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:39:02 AM EST
    First you ask what is wrong with comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson and now you are bizarrely suggesting that fear of Muslims in America is a myth?

    [ Parent ]
    And what is wrong with comparing (none / 0) (#26)
    by MarkL on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:41:18 AM EST
    Obama to Jesse Jackson? Nothing, obviously.

    [ Parent ]
    Look (none / 0) (#32)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:46:04 AM EST
    the Race card stuff is mostly irrelevant to me.  

    But you can't complain about rampant sexism and then  say that charges of racism are unwarranted.

    If you play victim politics, it works both ways.  And in this case, racism is more publicly condemned than sexism.

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah flyer but I have read very (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:49:26 AM EST
    many comments in other so called progressive blogs calling Hillary a b**h I have never read a comment calling Obama a N***r.  So I think the problem lies in that people feel more comfortable in being sexist than racist in public.

    [ Parent ]
    On the other hand (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by andrewwm on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:00:43 PM EST
    Obama's forced self-limitation (having to run as a non-black black candidate) is arguably greater than Clintons.

    Obama has had to walk a very narrow tightrope that people here just take for granted. The fact that he has to walk it says a lot about how powerful stereotypes of blacks still are in America.

    [ Parent ]

    i totally agree with you about that tightrope he (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:15 PM EST
    has to walk - i think that is very hard and that he has done a good job of it.

    but i think the same metaphor applies to clinton or any woman candidate - she clearly can't appeal to most men no matter what she does. she's weak, or too tough, or cold, or cries on command, etc.

    [ Parent ]

    This shows that you really (none / 0) (#95)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:09:55 PM EST
    haven't read and comprehended the article, the campaign. . . .

    [ Parent ]
    The article is unsourced opinion (none / 0) (#119)
    by andrewwm on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:19:03 PM EST
    and his campaign has been very very careful about race. Those who follow closely issues of color have watched him walk a very very careful line about not turning his back on his black supporters and trying to appeal to the rest of the population.

    Or are you arguing that his race has actually been an advantage in this campaign?

    [ Parent ]

    his playing the race-baiting card has, (none / 0) (#239)
    by kangeroo on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:57:25 PM EST
    at least from my perspective, most definitely been an advantage in this campaign--and in the most destructive possible way.  and i see it extrapolated and perpetuated by some aa blogs that both race-bait and hate-bait, with a dash of misogyny thrown in for good measure.  but if you don't want to see it, you won't.  you have to be willing to see things that are inconvenient to obama first, in order to be able to see the things in the article.

    [ Parent ]
    And when Tina Fey (none / 0) (#43)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:51:11 AM EST
    does a skit on SNL extolling the virtues of the word b**ch, what then?  

    The 2 words have nowhere near the same levels of hostility associated with them.  

    [ Parent ]

    But she is a woman is like a black man (none / 0) (#49)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:55:59 AM EST
    using the N word in Rap. Show-time

    [ Parent ]
    Oh really? (none / 0) (#60)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:00:00 PM EST
    How many times does a black comedian on SNL use the N word?  

    [ Parent ]
    I don't know since I don't watch SNL but I can (none / 0) (#83)
    by Florida Resident on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:15 PM EST
    tell you how many times they use both words in RAP

    [ Parent ]
    logically inconsistent... (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 11:50:24 AM EST
    so, you're saying that if accusations of racism are found to be unsupported, then there cannot be any true charges of sexism?

    [ Parent ]
    Aha, you said it first -- thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:00:56 PM EST
    Fly enjoys turning the topic to something else, never addressing the topic here: racism. Address it, Fly. Or wait for another thread on your topic.

    [ Parent ]
    The topic is NOT racism (none / 0) (#85)
    by flyerhawk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:06:22 PM EST
    the topic is playing the race card.  There is a big difference.

    [ Parent ]
    Okay, good, then stop talking about (none / 0) (#98)
    by Cream City on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:10:46 PM EST
    the gender card and start addressing the topic.

    [ Parent ]
    semantics (none / 0) (#111)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 12:14:44 PM EST
    for the love of god, when some is accused of playing the race card, they are talking about racism.

    [ Parent ]
    <