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Does This Ad Offend You?

By Big Tent Democrat

The Left blogs are in an uproar over this ad:

Not sure what offends in it. It raises a critical question for the Presidency. I think Obama has handled the ads better than the Left blogs: [More...]

Obama was not offended. He argued that the answer to the question was him - that is who you want answering the phone. Good for him.

Comments now closed, new thread on Hillary's ad is here.

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    I was mildly amused (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:53:59 PM EST
    I mean, my god, this is child's play by Republican standards.

    Tylenol has been nastier about Bayer Aspirin!

    It is a legitimate question (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:55:24 PM EST
    even when the GOP asks the question.

    What is not legitmate is when you decide to argue Al Qaida is rooting for a candidate.

    2 different things.

    One is a key question., The other is McCarthyism.

    Parent

    BTD, I thought you said it was good politics (none / 0) (#23)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:06:13 PM EST
    when Barack dissembled about Nafta. By that standard, isn't it good politics for Clinton to suggest that Al Qaida is 'rooting for Barack', as you suggest?

    Parent
    Different things (none / 0) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:12:10 PM EST
    imo. A lie not directed at the patriotism of your opponent is not comparable to one directed at the patriotism of your opponent.

    Parent
    Barack Dissembled? Where's the proof? (none / 0) (#133)
    by AdrianLesher on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:02:04 PM EST
    All the Clinton people seem to be taking it as gospel that Obama lied about his Nafta intentions. Meanwhile, CTV now says that their source says he may have misunderstood Goolsbee, and no one has established that Goolsbee was speaking at the direction of the campaign. AND both Goolsbee and the Canadian government deny the allegations.

    Parent
    Adrian, you're not keeping up with the news (none / 0) (#159)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:20:52 PM EST
    Wait (none / 0) (#252)
    by lilburro on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:37:04 PM EST
    has someone actually said Al Qaida is rooting for Barack???

    Parent
    The Grunts have been nastier (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:56:26 PM EST
    to the Zoomies :)  The Jarheads have been nastier to the President :)

    Parent
    I think it's a great ad. (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by vicsan on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:54:44 PM EST
    My answer is, I want Hillary answering the phone or her VP, Wes Clark.;)

    I'll get it, Bill. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:56:10 PM EST
    Bill? Bill? (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:04:35 PM EST
    It's 3:00AM, where the hell are you?! ;-)

    Parent
    why Wes why? (none / 0) (#57)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:27:43 PM EST
    I've been a huge Clark backer for years. From the get go I was part of the push to draft him in 04. And then was very involved in his Presidential campaign. I've continued to support him and be involved in WesPac. But here's the thing that kills me. For all of us who put their heart and soul into his campaign there was one thing that always hurt and baffled us, Bill and Hillary Clinton's absolute apathy toward Clark's presidential run. They were virtually invisible and silent all through the primaries. No prominent stumping, fund raising, help, etc. And believe me, their support would have helped tremendously.

    Wes is a principled and loyal man, I understand why he continues to support the Clinton's. I'm just not sure I can ever accept how they could barely bother to lift a finger for someone who would do anything for them.

    Parent

    How could they actively campaign (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:43:07 PM EST
    for Clark when Gore was also running?

    Parent
    Umm huh? (none / 0) (#104)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    Gore was nowhere to be found in 2004 when Clark was running. The field was Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark, Lieberman, etc.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, please delete my comment! (none / 0) (#254)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    Bill and Hillary were big supporters (none / 0) (#110)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:47:25 PM EST
    of his candidacy.

    His non-Netroots fundraising came from their list.
    Weird comment from you.

    Parent

    He was also a Rhodes scholar (none / 0) (#123)
    by Chimster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:56:52 PM EST
    gotta love that!

    Parent
    big supporters? (none / 0) (#197)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:48:07 PM EST
    Neither Hillary nor Bill Clinton endorsed or made a public appearance for Clark. The campaign pleaded desperately for it from the Clinton's and it never came.

    Parent
    it's no scarier (5.00 / 8) (#9)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:55:22 PM EST
    than Obama telling people that they won't be able to pay their mortgage or feed their children if Clinton "makes" them pay for healthcare they can't afford.

    And about BO calling her "D-Punjab" (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:04:34 PM EST
    . . . I think Clinton could have done this sooner. His lack of experience in foreign affairs, his resistance to even call a single meeting of his Senate subcommittee on this crucial topic, leaves him wide open to this ad. He parried it, but I'm not sure he did so well; it sounds dismissive again -- and he can continue to be dismissive of Clinton, apparently, but it also sounds like dismissing concerns of voters on security issues.

    Parent
    Cream (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:16:12 PM EST
    there is a great clip going around about Obama missing these meetings (or, rather, not even calling them in the first place) because he was "busy" on the campaign trail (hey, Clinton has managed to introduce bills while she's out-but I digress)

    LINK at No Quarter.

    Parent

    Or (none / 0) (#121)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:54:01 PM EST
    It's going to be okay.  All you have to do is hope and believe we can. Go back to sleep.  I'll go to talk to them.


    Parent
    Funy to hear the campaign who said (none / 0) (#228)
    by LatinoVoter on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:36:43 PM EST
    there was nothing wrong with running the Harry & Louise style ad now complain about the daisy ad.

    LOL

    Parent

    agreed. (none / 0) (#230)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:40:43 PM EST
    not to mention that locked-gate mailer about nafta.  talk about playing on working people's worst economic fears--and predicated on a lie, no less.

    Parent
    I am offended (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:55:39 PM EST
    that she didnt run it sooner

    ditto, much earlier (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by RalphB on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:33:09 PM EST
    I dont get it. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by ajain on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:56:13 PM EST
    How is that ad fear-mongering?
    Where is the mushroom cloud?
    People just make a big deal out of nothing.

    Obama supporter's definition of (none / 0) (#180)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:35:49 PM EST
    fear mongering has come to include bizarre things, including the whole idea that saying "Barack Hussein Obama" is fear mongering.  Sad to say for these crazy Obama people who think so, IF Obama defeats everybody and becomes prez, that's the name they're going to be swearing in on Inauguration Day.

    Parent
    on one level (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:56:59 PM EST
    it could be fun to watch them find out what an "attack ad" is.


    I'd like to see follow-up ads from (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:18:54 PM EST
    both Barack and Senator Clinton. I'd like to hear what they each have to say when they answer the phone.

    If the White House phone were ringing late at night, I'm not sure that Barack wouldn't be AWOL.

    On the other hand, I 'feel' like a President Hillary Clinton would still be up, burning the night oil - like President Bill Clinton often was. The Clinton's are nothing, if not diligent and vigilant.  

    Parent

    Burning the midnight oil (none / 0) (#62)
    by obscure on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:30:18 PM EST
    Of course she would be. We all know that her pantsuits are actually a sophisticated cybernetic exoskeleton, pumping her full of crank so she can man the phones 24/7, while at the same time have complete world-wide surveillance shunted into her optic nerve, so nothing could get past her watchful eye.

    But of course it HAS to be the case that President Obama would have to be as lazy and shiftless as you suggest, cause he can't help but to be that way. Terra-ists be damned, I ain't answering that phone at 3am.

    Parent

    a fine example of race baiting (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:34:52 PM EST
    No one claimed that Obama was "lazy and shiftless" but you. Peddle this cr*p somewhere else, will you?

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#96)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:42:58 PM EST
    If the White House phone were ringing late at night, I'm not sure that Barack wouldn't be AWOL.

    Sure sounds like FoxholeAtheist is suggesting that Obama would be, at best, sleeping on the job, and at worst an unpatriotic deserter.

    Parent

    can't speak for FHA (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:53:05 PM EST
    But I'm sure he DIDN'T say

      "But of course it HAS to be the case that President Obama would have to be as lazy and shiftless as you suggest, cause he can't help but to be that way."

    Which would be a racist statement. But some people don't mind putting racist words in other people's mouth's.  Its called race-baiting.

    Are trying to defend it?

    Parent

    Obama Would Be AWOL (none / 0) (#129)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:40 PM EST
    During a national emergency at 3am?  What does that imply about Obama.  Lazy, shiftless seem like good starters for me.

    I am not sure why you would want to defend FHA's comment, unless you agree.

    Parent

    well-- (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:03:59 PM EST
    I'll defend it and add more: if Obama can't bring himself to convene hearings on his own committee, a committee that oversees an area of the world where our military men and women are actively engaged in war, then why would we expect him to pick up the phone at three am.

    Now, go ahead and spin that into some bass ackwards racist comment.  You are very good at dueling over semantics and charging people with being racist as a way of distracting from the real discussion.  I take some of the blame for falling into your trap in the past, but it ends here.  You are just ridiculous.

    Parent

    Real Discussion? (2.66 / 3) (#141)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:09:54 PM EST
    That is a laugh. There is no real discussion for you. All you have ever done here at TL is shill for Hillary. Almost 1600 comments in just over a month, all shilling for Hillary? I wouldn't be surprised if you are on her payroll.

    And I did vote for Hillary.

    Parent

    *ALERT: Squeaky, are you somehow (none / 0) (#196)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:47:34 PM EST
    equating "lazy" with being black. If so, your comments need to be deleted ASAP.

    Parent
    You Are Embarrassing Yourself (none / 0) (#202)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:52:26 PM EST
    Your comment was offensive and absurd, whether or not you were blowing your dogwhistle.

    Parent
    Right. (none / 0) (#143)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    So squeaky is ridiculous.

    But you are not ridiculous for suggesting that Obama would not answer the phone at 3AM in an emergency?

    Parent

    BUT... (none / 0) (#146)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:11:52 PM EST
    ... while I think the assertion that Obama wouldn't answer the phone is ridiculous, I also find squeaky's race baiting, that clearly did not exist in the comment, to also be offensive.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#153)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:16:54 PM EST
    for that, but also note that the original race-baiting remark was made by "obscure", not squeaky. Squeaky just defended it.

    Parent
    oops... (none / 0) (#163)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:22:18 PM EST
    ... let me rephrase that.

    obscure's race-bating remark was offensive, and squeaky's defense of the comment is ridiculous.

    Parent

    AWOL At 3AM (none / 0) (#173)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:28:12 PM EST
    During a national emergency? I found much of Obscure's comment silly but, the dog whistle part was right on.

    Others have called Obama lazy for voting present. Sorry I do not see what else AWOL at 3am could mean.

    Parent

    Race Baiting? (none / 0) (#158)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:20:38 PM EST
    Not me. Perhaps you were not following the thread.  I was agreeing with obscure's comment. I also found FHA's comment absurd and implying that Obama is lazy and would be busy sleeping rather than respond to a national emergency.

    Parent
    "Perhaps you were not ... (none / 0) (#181)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:35:54 PM EST
    following the thread." WTF????

    No, of course not, I was just waiting here for the cross-town bus. (snark, in case you can't tell)

    You responded to MY comment, or did you forget? FHA said he(she?) thought Obama might be AWOL for the call. I didn't presume to suggest what FHA meant by that, although his(her?) explanatory post was exactly along the lines that I supposed they would be.

    Obscure and then you were the only one's to inject "lazy and shiftless" into this discussion. Shame on you.

    Parent

    Not A Reponse To You (none / 0) (#194)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:46:16 PM EST
    That was a resonse to mindfullmission's comment. Maybe you need to adjust your preferences to threaded or something, so you can keep it straight.

    Obscure and then you were the only one's to inject "lazy and shiftless" into this discussion. Shame on you.

    My initial comment was a quote from obscure. Sorry to see that you are having so much trouble following the thread.


    Parent
    your initial comment was NOT (none / 0) (#205)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:56:39 PM EST
    a quote from obscure. It was you agreeing with obscure, after I called him out for rae-baiting. These were your words, not his(hers?)  

    "What does that imply about Obama.  Lazy, shiftless seem like good starters for me."

    Sorry you're having such a hard time remembering what you posted, or owning up to it.

    Parent

    Whatever You Say (none / 0) (#206)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:59:04 PM EST
    So apparently (none / 0) (#144)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:10:29 PM EST
    "lazy and shiftless" are some of the words YOU would apply. Then who is the one using racial stereotypes? YOU.

    Parent
    My comment #144 (none / 0) (#147)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:12:01 PM EST
    was intended for squeaky at #129. Sorry if there's any confusion about who I was referring to.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#176)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:30:05 PM EST
    They were from obsure. But I agree that FHA was calling Obama lazy.

    Parent
    Your words (none / 0) (#187)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:39:08 PM EST
    "What does that imply about Obama.  Lazy, shiftless seem like good starters for me."

    You used both words.

    Parent

    squeaky, I said he would be AWOL per ususal. (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:15:13 PM EST
    ..."sleeping on the job" and "unpatriotic deserter" are your words. I don't foresee that he would be "sleeping the job", because he has a track record of not even showing up.

    Parent
    His Record (none / 0) (#166)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    Is in no way unusual. Your AWOL  comment is absurd and offensive.

    Parent
    BS (none / 0) (#179)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:34:20 PM EST
    You said:

    If the White House phone were ringing late at night, I'm not sure that Barack wouldn't be AWOL.



    Parent
    obscure, way to go with race-baiting (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:07:58 PM EST
    Barack wouldn't be there to answer the proverbial late-night phone call in the same way he wasn't there to cast anything other than "present" on a slew of votes; in the same way he hasn't been present to call any meetings of the committees he chairs; in the same way he wasn't present at the Tavis Smiley black forum in New Orleans; in the same way that's he was entirely absent from the Senate until 2004; in the same way he's actually been absent from the Senate since 2004 in order to campaign for President. Do you think he's AWOL because he's black?  

    Parent
    You were certainly implying something (none / 0) (#190)
    by obscure on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:43:23 PM EST
    I'm not saying he'd be AWOL for any reason. I'm confident that he'd be there to pick up the phone and handle the situation competently. You appear to be saying that for whatever reason, he will not take the responsibility of being the President of the United States seriously, which is much more scurrilous than saying that you don't feel that he is qualified for the job.

    Lets posit for the time being that you weren't calling him lazy or shiftless. Perhaps you were calling him a coward, a neer-do-well, an idiot, or perhaps all you were saying is that he's a heavy sleeper. Either way, you were criticizing his character, rather than his ability. Your reply certainly backs up that theory.

    Speaking of spending time in the Senate, what exactly has Hillary done, other than play the fool with Lieberman and his video game obsession, her flag-burning amendment trivialities, or perhaps voting us into Iraq?

    Parent

    i don't see it in any of the (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:48:48 PM EST
    ways you see it.  i think you're projecting, big time.  i see all of the times obama's been awol--some of which foxholeatheist just listed--as his simply not giving a damn.  and that's not about race, as much as you might like it to be.  that's just about...well, not giving a damn.  some of us give a damn.

    Parent
    Obscure/Squeaky, you're digging yourself deeper. (none / 0) (#204)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:55:22 PM EST
    You're both in way over your heads...and now you are no longer visible to me at all.

    Parent
    AWOL ... (none / 0) (#217)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:17:29 PM EST
    would imply he was a coward.  Maybe you should have run with that rather than the tired "race-baiting" meme that no one buys anymore.

    Parent
    Now, should I be offended or not (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:03:48 PM EST
    when Jello Jay Rockefeller decides to endorse Obama?

    Mr. "Handwrite a strong letter of protest to Deadeye, then file it in a secret place"?

    His would be an endorsement I, were I a candidate, could do without.

    I'm waiting for the Lieberman endorsement....

    Meanwhile, McCaskill is (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:07:12 PM EST
    sponsoring a bill to make sure McCain, despite being born in Panama of U.S. citizen parents, qualifies to be President.

    Why the heck is shee, who endorsed Obama, sponsoring this bill?

    Parent

    feel the republican love (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:09:20 PM EST
    I live on the state line and many democrats in MO are pretty fed up with Claire

    Parent
    I saw the clip (none / 0) (#184)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:37:31 PM EST
    of her on Bill Maher and how she came to support Obama in the first place (great decision making by a Super D, BTW /snark).  If she were my Senator, I think I'd cry.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:11:09 PM EST
    that does not matter. He can be President without it.

    Parent
    Lieberman already endorsed (none / 0) (#30)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    Lieberman already endorsed.  He endorse John McCain a long time ago.

    Parent
    I'm expecting him to endorse a Dem, (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:26:27 PM EST
    too.  Just to keep that non-partisan, post-partisan odor flowing.

    After all, he's considered by most as Obama's mentor in the Senate and they are close.

    Parent

    Just posted aboiut it (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:10:47 PM EST
    Jay Rockefeller and the 'red phone' (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by LadyDiofCT on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:08:24 PM EST
    Jay Rockefeller (let's give retro immunity to telecoms Jay) just endorsed Obama. His reason: because he had the judgement about Iraq before he was in the senate (but not afterword) and therefore would be ready by the 'red phone', a direct hit on Hillary's ad. Is this guy serious? The more ridiculousness I here from our so-called leadership, the more I understand why nothing has been accomplished on the war or anything else in this Congress. It has just dawned on me why they don't want Hillary in the White House. She may just start holding people accountable, calling hearings and calling for heads. And based on the positions taken by Sen. Rockefeller, he may not want any of his collusion and complicity in these debacles to be brought to anyone's attention. The democratic party is such a disappointment. It will be a long time if ever for this long time democrat to have any faith in this bunch of spineless do nothing blowhards! (Sorry, had to vent!) One more thing, I thought the super delegates were going to stay out of the primaries and let the voters decide. We pleaded with our senator, Dodd, to stay out until after the primaries, but No Way!! Yikes!

    Stuff is shaking out like crazy this weekend (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:17:25 PM EST
    between who is cosponsoring certain bills and who isn't.  I hope America is paying attention and I hope that it is reflected at the polls.  

    Parent
    Is it safe now for Richardson to (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:36:51 PM EST
    put a foot on the ground?

    Parent
    Probably not, IED's and stuff :) (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:47:02 PM EST
    Haven't seen the ad and can't (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:17:14 PM EST
    from this location.  Did read about it and heard some of it on NPR.  Yes, I'm a Clinton supporter, but it got my attention; although national security is not my top issue, the question jolted me.  Don't like the thought of Obama in the driver's seat on national security.  

    The Obama NAFTA and health care mailers (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Manuel on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:25:26 PM EST
    also appealed to fear.  If anything, this add is tamer since it doesn't contain actual distortions.  To decry this ad while defending the mailers is inconsistent at best.

    the ad contains nothing at all (none / 0) (#65)
    by po on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:31:03 PM EST
    except fear.  and fear is about all we've been offered for the past 7 years.  

    Parent
    The ad raises a valid question (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Manuel on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    The mailers contained fear and distortions.

    Parent
    In the ad, is that a man or woman (none / 0) (#69)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:32:18 PM EST
    who comes into the kids room at the end?

    Parent
    New Ad (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by wasabi on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:31:40 PM EST
    Didn't offend me in the least.  I didn't conjure up mushroom clouds in my head when I heard it.  I just thought, yes, I'd prefer it be Hillary answering the phone.

    if not mushroom clouds (none / 0) (#79)
    by po on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:35:53 PM EST
    what did you conjure up when you saw the ads?  the WTC falling?  A USS Cole bombing?  Or a courtesy call from one of those world leaders she's met on her many travels calling to tell her they're coming into town the next day and asking her if she's got room on her lunch schedule.  

    The ad was intended to play to fear.  No amount of spin will change that. No even the absence of a daisy or a mushroom cloud.

    Parent

    Po, You're right and it works overtime. (none / 0) (#90)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:38:57 PM EST
    Highly Amused By The Uproar (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by BDB on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:43:15 PM EST
    I agree Obama's response is much better than the blogs.  What has amused me about all the handwringing over this ad by so many Very Important Bloggers (and their readers) is not only what you said, BTD, which is since when is this not a legitimate standard to hold a presidential candidate to?  Surely, that's kind of a basic qualification for President, for Dems and Reps - that you're qualified to take those late night calls.

    But my other reaction has been to the idea that Clinton shouldn't do this because McCain will.  WTF?  First of all, McCain won't be this kind. Clinton's ad doesn't specifically say that Obama is unqualified to take those calls, only that she is.  That Obama isn't is, admittedly, implied.  But it won't just be implied in McCain's ads.  And, second, if Obama's campaign craters over this mild of an ad, he's dead meat in November and so Clinton would be doing the Democratic party a tremendous favor by showing that now.

    I cannot help but note that experience is usually a very important qualification for president, even among democrats.  It was one of the reasons why Kerry got the nomination last time.  It's funny that the one year so many Very Important Bloggers have decided that it's inappropriate to talk about experience is the year the woman is the one who has it.  Because nothing reminds me so much of my every day life as seeing youngish cool guys given the nod over more experienced women because suddenly expierence, the criteria used to previously deny the women the jobs, doesn't matter any more.  It's just odd how it always seems to work out that way.  A coincidence, I'm sure.  

    Finally, I also always suspect that whenever the Obama folks scream about the unfairness of a criticism, it indicates the criticism scares the hell out of them.  If they weren't worried this ad will be effective, they would be laughing it off instead of screaming about how unfair it is.

    Now if only they were screaming this loudly about Obama's lies about Clinton's NAFTA position and his apparent lies about his own intentions.  I agree that's politics as usual, but folks who really cared about policy would care about the candidates' positions on NAFTA.

    BDB, you rock (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:49:50 PM EST
       "It's funny that the one year so many Very Important Bloggers have decided that it's inappropriate to talk about experience is the year the woman is the one who has it. "

    I knew I was missing something.

    Re the ad:  I see it as just a reminder of the situation we're in.  It's mild.
    As BDB says, if the Leftie blogs are freaking out over this, they've got a long tough road to November.

    Parent

    In my opinion this is the only (none / 0) (#120)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:54:00 PM EST
    truly effective ad the Clinton campaign has ever done. It's a velvet hammer version of something Frank Luntz would dream up.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#134)
    by BDB on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:02:13 PM EST
    Watching this made me realize how easy Clinton has gone on Obama and how very different the GE campaign will look.  

    Parent
    Between (none / 0) (#148)
    by americanincanada on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:13:02 PM EST
    this ad and the NAFTA/phone call dustup you would swear the world eas imploding by the response from Obama fans.

    Yikes...if he can't answer and handle thses few things it's goig to be President McCain.

    Parent

    The problem is (none / 0) (#203)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:53:35 PM EST
    that many of don't consider Hillary's "experience" legitimate.  You can only consider her an "experienced" candidate if you assume her time as first lady counts.  For many of us that is not impressive.

    Parent
    Hillary's experience (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by cmugirl on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:04:58 PM EST
    I guess I feel more comforted by the fact that she won't take a week trying to figure out where her office is and how the phone system works and can actually start doing something (yes, on "Day One") (thank you, West Wing).

    I also think people are deluding themselves if they think she didn't have policy ideas bounced off her - you can argue she wasn't elected to the position, but then neither were the millions of presidential advisors there have been over the years.

    While I think her experience in the WH (besides the numerous other things she's done) is much more than an "internship" or "apprenticeship", how many people have HAD internships and then put it on their resume?  You really DO get experience from being able to observe how things operate and how things get done.  That experience can't be replicated by sitting in a state legislature.  She has experience that is unique to other presidential candidates in history (I would say GWB had the chance to have this experience, but I don't think he was paying attention).

    Parent

    okay, but hillary as first lady was more (5.00 / 1) (#251)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:35:20 PM EST
    involved in substantive policy matters than any other first lady in our history.  this is a fact that used to be acknowledged by the press, although conveniently ignored in time for this election, of course.  if the press hadn't been obsessing for 8 years about her hair and blasting her for not being "feminine" enough, i can assure you we would have seen a lot more of her on a range of issues.

    Parent
    Yeah, not impressive at all (5.00 / 1) (#256)
    by joc on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 06:00:36 PM EST
    Here's a few highlights of her 'unimpressive' career before she joined the Senate:

    1970 - awarded grant to work at Marian Wright Edelman's Washington Research Project, where she was assigned to Senator Walter Mondale's Subcommittee on Migratory Labor, researching migrant workers' problems in housing, sanitation, health and education.

    1972 - worked on McGovern campaign in Texas, registering latino voters (among other things)

    After graduating from law school, she did a year of post-graduate study on children and medicine at the Yale Child Study Center.  Her first scholarly paper, "Children Under the Law", was published in the Harvard Educational Review in late 1973 and became frequently cited in the field.  During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for Edelman's newly founded Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.

    1974 - worked on the impeachment inquiry staff in Washington, D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.

    1977 - joined Rose Law Firm, specializing in patent infringement and intellectual property law while also working pro bono in child advocacy.

    1977 - She co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund.

    1977, President Jimmy Carter appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

    1978 - First Lady of Arkansas, appointed chair of Rural Health Advisory Committee, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

    1982-92 Chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992,[80] where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

    From 1987 to 1991 she chaired the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession, which addressed gender bias in the law profession and induced the association to adopt measures to combat it.

    Clinton has served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services (1988-1992) and the Children's Defense Fund (as chair, 1986-1992).

    As First Lady:
        -She chaired the of the Task Force on National Health Care Reform,
        -Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind SCHIP.
        -She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.
        -She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.
        -She worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.
        -Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.
        -She initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.
        -She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.

    Parent

    I undestand that flyerhawk (none / 0) (#209)
    by kmblue on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    and that's cool by me.


    Parent
    Do any of the candidates (none / 0) (#213)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:05:24 PM EST
    legit "experience?"

    Parent
    Offended? (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:21:31 PM EST
    Hell no....what offends me is that the citizenry let's freakin' tv commercials influence their decision.  You're not buying laundry detergent, you're picking a leader for crying out loud.

    join the club. (none / 0) (#240)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:02:12 PM EST
    it bothers me too that the most viewed commercial of obama's on youtube is the epitome of effective marketing at its deceptive and manipulative worst (not to mention an apple ripoff).  smart and unscrupulous advertising, just like the rest of obama's campaign.

    Parent
    Jor-- (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    you do know that BO has spent more on pollsters than HRC, right?  I don't like Penn either, but facts are facts.

    The Ad Isn't Offensive (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by kaleidescope on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:49:30 PM EST
    It just isn't very effective.  The Obama campaign's come back -- that HRC's "red phone moment" came in 2002 and she blew it -- could've been seen coming in the instant the ad was conceived.  It was a fairly devastating come back, I thought.

    Also, I agree with Atrios.  There should've been some wolves.

    Obama's answer ... (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:06:43 PM EST
    When they call, I'll refer them to a speech I made six years ago.

    Or maybe a speech Deval Patrick made two years ago.

    Is this his answer for everything?

    I gave a speech, I'm brilliant, vote for me.


    Even better (none / 0) (#220)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:23:00 PM EST
    with his real response ad  (see link below), it's "I'll take a nice chunk from Hillary's ad and tack on my own stuff."

    Parent
    He just has no shame ... (none / 0) (#227)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:34:32 PM EST
    about being the plagiarism candidate.

    Parent
    Offended/Not Offended (4.66 / 3) (#34)
    by p lukasiak on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:11:06 PM EST
    As a progressive I'm offended by this ad.

    As a Democrat, I'm really happy to see this ad, because Obama has to deal with these questions.

    And "me" doesn't cut it.

    What about it as a progressive (none / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:13:24 PM EST
    offends you? The raising of the question? the President IS the Commander in Chief. Why does that offend you?

    Parent
    as a progressive... (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by p lukasiak on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:37:33 PM EST
    ... I don't like using raw, naked fear as a political weapon.  As a progressive I object when the GOP does it, and I'm not going to be hypocritical and say "its okay when the person I support does it."

    As a Democrat who doesn't want the party saddled with a nominee that is going to be extremely vulnerable to this kind of ad if he becomes the presumptive nominee, I see why its necessary.

    Parent

    aspects of the Presidency? Frankly,. I think Left blog outrage is due to the fact that the issue has cut against Dems because they cower in their boots over it.

    Obama provides a lesson in how to deal with it - embrace the question.

    Parent

    BTD, the 'left' blogs are having a hissy fit (none / 0) (#157)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:18:37 PM EST
    because, for once, Senator Clinton has made an ad that works as well as some Republican ads do.

    Parent
    not embraced (none / 0) (#164)
    by p lukasiak on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:22:34 PM EST
    BT, Obama didn't embrace the question -- he rejected the question, and said 'here's a better question'.

    And quite frankly, I think that Freedom Watch will have no problem raising questions about Obama's judgement.  (even using that clip... "Senator Obama doesn't want to discuss his lack of experience to lead this country, he wants to make it all about 'judgement'. So lets look at his judgement...[usual distortions that are just true enough])

    Parent

    The ad is great (4.60 / 5) (#117)
    by Lena on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:52:50 PM EST
    because it makes you think of Obama sitting there answering the phone instead of HRC. And the internal comparison of those 2 images is much to Obama's detriment. Somehow the non-confrontational, inspirational, compromising style of Obama doesn't exactly evoke confidence in his national security credentials.

    And I suppose if the lefty internet (i.e. Obama supporters) are angry about this ad, then it's probably working.

    Huh? (none / 0) (#124)
    by po on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    The only way you can run effective US foreign policy is if you use a big stick constantly?  Let's just elect McCain then.  

    If HRC's WH phone is ringing at 3 in the morning it's not because some world leader or terrorist is calling to tell her in 15 minutes we nuke you.  Rather, it's some person paid to answer the phones at that time of night interrupting her sleep or whatever she's doing at that moment to say, hey, we've got an issue, the national security council has been called and there will be a meeting at 3:15, come on down.  The idea that she's going to fight on the phone to protect the US is laughable, but then so is the ad.

    Parent

    obama equivocates on everything. (none / 0) (#234)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:57:14 PM EST
    that's what makes me wary about him, whether the topic is national security or domestic issues.

    Parent
    exactly! (none / 0) (#241)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:03:18 PM EST
    Yeah and at 3:00 in the morning... (none / 0) (#255)
    by Drew on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 06:00:24 PM EST
    he wouldn't have Hillary there to field the first question.

    Parent
    As soon as he mentioned exercise judgment (3.66 / 3) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:55:56 PM EST
    he made me think of Rezco.

    It made me think of Hillary's vote for the war (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by fuzzyone on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:08:55 PM EST
    In the words of a brilliant politician... (3.00 / 2) (#1)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:51:24 PM EST
    "If one candidate's trying to scare you and the other one's trying to get you to think, if one candidate's appealing to your fears and the other one's appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope."


    I reject your premise (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:53:55 PM EST
    Dwemocrats have been sacred to debate national securtity so they have always whined about nationa security ads. IT was nonsense then and it is nonsesne now.

    Take on the question.

    This is a good moment for Obama. He took on the issue instead of shrieking in outrage.

    The Left blogs have acted like fools on this forever.

    Parent

    Its not his Premise (none / 0) (#38)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:13:43 PM EST
    While agree its good to see Barack has answer for an ad that Mccain can basically run after redoing the last 5 seconds, the quote was from Bill Clinton less than 4 years ago I believe.

    Parent
    Clinton's quote (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:15:08 PM EST
    is not about THIS AD, as you yourself admit. I reject his premise that the quote is responsive to this ad.

    I guess I reject your similar premise.

    Parent

    Its his premise (none / 0) (#46)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:17:43 PM EST
    That the quote is somehow applicable to the ad. Someone else's quote,  but his premise that it is relevant to the issue of this thread.

    Parent
    My comment was on the style (none / 0) (#42)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    Am I offended by the ad? No.

    Should more Dems talk about National Security? Yes.

    Does the tone and timing of it make it seem less a thoughtful discussion and more a "wolves" style fear tactic? Yes.

    If Hillary Clinton believes she's more prepared to handle National Security issues and 3:00 a.m. crisis than Obama she should brought that up and explained why in one of the last 3 one-on-one debates. That's a better forum for frank discussion of National Security than a 30 second ad.

    Parent

    But she did bring it up (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:31:36 PM EST
    in one of the debates; where do you think the quote came from? As for her getting the time to pursue the point, that probably was when Brian Williams cut her off to report, in a national debate for the presidency of this great land of ours, that it was snowing in Cleveland.

    Parent
    She was asked point blank (none / 0) (#162)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:21:56 PM EST
    RAMOS: Senator Clinton, yesterday you said -- and I'm quoting -- "one of us is ready to be commander in chief." Are you saying that Senator Obama is not ready and not qualified to be commander in chief?

    SEN. CLINTON: Well, I believe that I am ready, and I am prepared. And I will leave that to voters to decide.

    To me that is not laying out the case why you are more qualified or prepared than your opponent.

    Parent

    Not the quote I was thinking of (none / 0) (#249)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:26:05 PM EST
    but then, it's clear here that you and I hear her quite differently.

    Parent
    It is a 30 second ad (none / 0) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:19:39 PM EST
    What exactly do you expect?

    Parent
    I expect (none / 0) (#91)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:39:47 PM EST
    To hear Hillary Clinton make the case as to why she's more qualified or experienced to handle a National Security crisis than any other candidate. Open ended questions like "who do you want answering the phone?" do not make a substantive case for this. Again, I think a debate is the best forum to do it.

    But that said, would it be that hard to in 30 seconds say "I've done X, I've dealt with Y, and I handled Z this way - that's why I'm the best qualified to handle a crisis or call at 3 a.m."?

    Parent

    dwight (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:47:17 PM EST
    weren't you the one who just yesterday accused Clinton of lying about raising 35mm?  I mean, that's what you said--that you thought she was lying.

    Let's be honest here.  If Hillary Clinton came to your house and beamed a powerpoint presentation onto your white belly saying I will do X, Y and Z, during a national emergency, you would probably accuse her of stealing the projector.

    The point of an ad is to get a message across.  Her message is that she is more prepared.  Message received.

    Parent

    Inaccurate (none / 0) (#140)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:09:50 PM EST
    I mean, that's what you said--that you thought she was lying.

    I never said that. I even said there's no way to prove they were cooking the books. What I did say was that to me the math didn't seem to add up. Her raising that kind of money that fast was without precedent. And that I was curious to see how a campaign would be able to raise $20 million in 14 days in the face of 11 straight losses and a lack of  positive news.

    For the record, I've never attributed words to another commenter without them actually using those words. And I've never used vulgar descriptions in comments to describe a candidate. Can you say the same Kathy?

    Parent

    heck yeah I've been vulgar (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:03:01 PM EST
    I called Obama an arrogant f*ckball the other day over his parsing of abortion into a "moral" issue.  (It is a violation of the TL rules to use curse words, and for that I apologize, though I still stand behind my original intent).  I have also questioned Obama's Rezko connection and said we should demand Obama renounce paid members of the Nation of Islam on his staff.  What kind of coward would I be to back off those statements?  I stood by them then and I stand by them now.

    I'm puzzled as to why you don't characterize your accusations as charging them with lying.  Maybe you would be more comfortable saying you questioned their integrity, or that you cast aspersions on their math?  Because there actually is a way to prove whether or not they were cooking the books: each campaign has to submit all of their finances to the FEC for review.  I think the next deadline is coming up right before the impending primary.  

    So, in light of this new information (which I recall you being told, but whatever): do you still stand by your statement that you do not believe that the Clinton campaign was able to raise 20mm in 14 days?  And by "not believe" I don't mean "calling them liars," rather...uh... saying that they were "sprinkling fairydust over wishful thinking."

    Parent

    Here's what I believe (none / 0) (#225)
    by dwightkschrute on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:30:29 PM EST
    We'll see when the FEC reports come out how much money was raised, and for what. I'm still doubtful that the $35 million number will not have a significant amount that is for the general election. So do I think the campaign is lying and knowingly putting out a false number? No. But to me the math says they may have shifted, borrowed, or creatively labeled money to make it to a big number.

    Parent
    That's because (5.00 / 1) (#237)
    by Fredster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:58:12 PM EST
    >What I did say was that to me the math didn't seem >to add up. Her raising that kind of money that fast >was without precedent.

    People like me keep donating, and donating and donating.  

    I'll do my small part to make sure that a lack of $$$s is not an issue for her.


    Parent

    You're such a guy. (none / 0) (#95)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:42:25 PM EST
    Don't mention the wolves!!! Or the tone!!! (none / 0) (#107)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:46:42 PM EST
    I resent Barack's assumption that (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:54:19 PM EST
    I am even "curious" as to how he feels about the ad.
    I want Hillary to tuck me in and answer the damn phone.

    Parent
    That works in favor of Hillary (none / 0) (#40)
    by catfish on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:14:30 PM EST
    It says vote with your head not with emotions.

    Parent
    The ad is genious because it makes an (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:24:05 PM EST
    emotional appeal to rational judgment. Somebody deserves a raise.

    Parent
    i agree. (none / 0) (#244)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:06:41 PM EST
    now if only the left blogs would handle it more maturely...

    Parent
    We have a rebuttal from the horse's mouth (2.00 / 1) (#210)
    by ajain on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:01:51 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton just came out and said what I think is absolutely right: "Sen. Obama says that if you discuss national security you are fear-mongering."

    Then she went on to talk abt the his Iraq war fairy tale, missing Kyl-Lieberman, and his loser chairmanship of euro-affairs committee.

    Good for her.

    Ajan, where is Clinton's Rebuttal? (none / 0) (#215)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:14:07 PM EST
    In his response to the ad, Obama, dripping with piety, said:

     "It's not a matter of who picks up the phone. It's a matter of the kind of judgment you use when you pick up the phone".

    Somebody really needs to ask Obama whether he plans to use the kind of "boneheaded judgment" he used in his Rezko real estate deal.

    Parent

    Good Ad (none / 0) (#2)
    by PlayInPeoria on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:53:46 PM EST
    addressing who has then most experience. Who ever answers the phone must have the experience to make tought decisions. Hillary thinks she is the one... Barack thinks he is the one.

    I'm not offended (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:53:46 PM EST
    because it's a good question.

    In fact, I could easily see juxtaposing this ad with McBush singing "Bomb Iran", to make the point that he's a doddering old coot sliding into senile incoherence and more dangerous daily as a result.

    And neither was I (none / 0) (#239)
    by Fredster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:00:07 PM EST
    I thought it was a good ad and not at all like the LBJ daisy commercial.  

    Parent
    I'm offended by the geekiness (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 01:54:38 PM EST
    of that movie trailer voice.......someone make him stop!  It ends in a pretty kewl fashion though.  It's a wash for me ;)  Now how about bombing some Pakistan when they sass back ;)?

    I thought of you when I heard this (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:00:44 PM EST
    on NPR this morning:

    TEXAS/MILITARY/CAMPAIGNS

    Parent

    Listening now (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:14:24 PM EST
    You are such a good bud!  Thanks for collecting links for me in your wanderlust.

    Parent
    Hey, my mom used to clip articles and (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:20:30 PM EST
    mail them to her kids.  Its genetic.

    Parent
    Just finished (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:29:31 PM EST
    Whew, spouses and parents are so desperate right now and I can really relate but for some reason this blog usually slows down my emotion and I can think again. Many of my military counterparts though still not as politically informed as I wish they were.  Or maybe I only like the smell of my own brand of insanity and I still can't smell the coffee.  It is heart breaking hearing a woman sobbing because she feels like her children will be fighting this war and she has no control over some of the most basic family dynamics of her life and her husband is "there" again.  Not possible though, not enough warm bodies volunteering to do it so long as we stay all volunteer.  I know how she feels though when it's three a.m. and the night is long in the winter.......it even gets a little long in lower Alabama.

    Parent
    Did this ad run in Texas only? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Paladin on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:05:10 PM EST
    Does anyone know?  Just curious as to who they're targeting.

    My guess... (none / 0) (#192)
    by cmugirl on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:43:48 PM EST
    ...is that the commercial is geared toward the strong military presence in Texas, plus the red-staters who are going to cross over.

    I liked the ad, but I liked the "Night Shift" one better.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/02/clinton_night_shift.html


    Parent

    I'm not offended (none / 0) (#22)
    by AF on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:05:45 PM EST
    But I'm disappointed by the suggestion that to fear should be the dominant consideration in evaluating the candidates' foreign policy records.  As the years since 9/11 have proved, fear has not been a good guide to foreign policy decisions.

    To me, this is further evidence that Hillary sees foreign policy through the lens of domestic electoral politics and lacks a clear vision of America's place in the world.

    Are you suggesting Obama sees foreign (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:08:15 PM EST
    policy through a different lens at this point?

    Parent
    Yes I am (none / 0) (#66)
    by AF on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:31:15 PM EST
    I think Obama has a more principled foreign policy vision than Hillary and is more confident in his grasp of foreign policy.  Time and again -- the Iraq vote, meeting with foreign leaders, Cuba, targeting Al Qaeda in Pakistan, answering the question at this week's debate about going back into Iraq if the situation deteriorates -- he has taken clear and correct positions that Hillary has not only been unwilling to take, but has been unwilling to oppose in clear terms.  

    Instead she ties herself into knots with countervailing considerations that leave her unable to make good decisions (eg Iraq vote) or says more or less "you can't say that" without explaining why in any clear terms (Pakistan, diplomacy).

    Now comes this ad which is utterly devoid of foreign policy content but merely states the platitude that she "knows the world's leaders, knows the military -- [and is] tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world."  It doesn't reassure me about her ability to make clear, confident foreign policy decisions.

    Parent

    Are you factoring in (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:36:14 PM EST
    his actions re Kenyan elections and current allegations his econ. advisor talked to Canada's consul in Chicago about Obama's statements on Ohio on NAFTA?

    Parent
    if by different lens you mean (none / 0) (#87)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:38:14 PM EST
    telling the American people one thing, then calling up a foreign country and telling them, "hey, I lied.  Chill."

    Parent
    Nobody is worried (none / 0) (#92)
    by AF on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:40:13 PM EST
    about a 3 am phone call about NAFTA.  NAFTA has very little to do with this discussion.

    Parent
    NAFTA has everything to do with this discussion (none / 0) (#101)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:44:39 PM EST
    we are talking about how Obama will handle foreign governments and outside attacks.  As we have almost nothing from his past to gauge what his reaction will be, we have to rely on the example--which proves that he will say one thing to the American people and another thing to the foreign government.

    Parent
    How about.... (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by cmugirl on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:47:23 PM EST
    this article from The Nation where it is written that , "A senior foreign policy adviser to leading Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has told The Nation that if elected Obama will not "rule out" using private security companies like Blackwater Worldwide in Iraq."

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/scahill

    All this while HRC yesterday announced that she has cosponsored legislation to ban the use of Blackwater and other private mercenary firms in Iraq.

    http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=293878

    Parent

    it has to do with response time and (none / 0) (#242)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:05:43 PM EST
    telling the country the truth. i think that is important and fits right in.

    Parent
    er, (none / 0) (#248)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:20:41 PM EST
    do you mean how he's flip-flopped on normalization of relations with cuba, or how he's been inconsistent about his position re: iran?  apparently, under the obama rules, now pandering = principled.  the icing on the cake.

    Parent
    Um fear of what? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:10:32 PM EST
    offensive? (none / 0) (#25)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:08:08 PM EST
    I don't think that the question is offensive.

    But I do think that using fear bothers me, regardless of who it is coming from.  

    Using fear (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:10:15 PM EST
    How do you ask the question then?

    Parent
    You don't ask it in a 30 second ad (none / 0) (#119)
    by AF on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:53:29 PM EST
    You ask it in the course of a substantive discussion of what it takes to respond to crises and who has the ability to do that.

    The elections of 2002 and 2004 demonstrated pretty conclusively that what voters can made to believe through fear and what is actually in the country's interests are two very different things.

    Parent

    Par For The Course (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    And Obama's response put it back to sleep. I don't get the uproar.

    No, the ad does not offend me (none / 0) (#48)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:18:56 PM EST
    In fact, I think she could do a series of ads that pick up where this one left off - and the most effective would be one that features a clip of McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."

    Obama seizes the moment?  Mmmmm...I'm not impressed in the least with Obama's judgment.  That he opposed the war in 2002 is not any kind of a ticket to the Good Judgment Club - he's failed to lead on the issue since, he's totally neglected a subcommittee that could have been a useful tool with our allies.  Not good signs, in my book.

    Makes me think that when the call comes, he might be too busy doing something he would find personally more rewarding.

    I've always wondered.. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Chimster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:33:40 PM EST
    what if there WERE weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? I wonder if Obama would have been seen as weak and used bad judgement about not authorizing to go to war? I know war is probaly never the best answer, but..  I guess we'll never know.

    Parent
    yeah, probably (none / 0) (#160)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:21:10 PM EST
    I mean I didn't think WMDs justified invasion (chem. weapons are reasoanbly common, though use is not), but I imagine most American would have, basically Obama made a jugement call and its paid off.  

    Parent
    Right There... (none / 0) (#257)
    by AmyinSC on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 06:17:43 PM EST
    With you.

    Parent
    I thought it was a McCain ad... (none / 0) (#50)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:20:16 PM EST
    ...before hearing Hillary at the end.

    No, I don't find it offensive.  I consider it somewhat fear-mongering and clearly modeled on Bush's 2004 ads, but hey, do what you've got to do.  I doubt too many people will find it convincing.

    Which Bush 2004 ad? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:22:49 PM EST
    The wolves in the forest... the music, tone... (none / 0) (#58)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:28:08 PM EST
    Missed the wolves in this ad (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:30:18 PM EST
    Not seeing it.

    Parent
    Well, BTD... (none / 0) (#70)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:32:20 PM EST
    ...you don't need wolves to have an ad remind you of a general tactic that the Bush administration has employed since 2001.  Come on...

    An ad can remind you of a tactic, if not the actual content.

    So, just because this ad didn't have wolves, doesn't mean it doesn't also play on fears, if perhaps a bit more subtly.

    Parent

    Not following you (none / 0) (#81)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:36:09 PM EST
    Gee, how's that, BTD... (none / 0) (#99)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:43:35 PM EST
    ...this ad reminds me of Bush/Cheney ads that played on people's fears.  It reminds me of the entire Bush/Cheney reliance on fear.  Others agree. Obama agrees.  You don't have to.

    Are ya following me yet?  Is this helping?

    As for the "wolves in the forest" - that's a pop title for that particular Bush ad.  I didn't say that there were wolves in this ad.  Please.

    Parent

    I can think of many other reasaons (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:23:56 PM EST
    that phone will ring and they are not all about bombs.

    Assassination of another foreign leader; natural disaster in the US or foreign country; that Hillary finally caught bin laden.

    There will most likely be threats to other countries and there may be threats to ours. Yeah..reality sucks. I want Hillary to answer that phone.

    Parent

    Although maybe not... (none / 0) (#64)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:30:30 PM EST
    ...I just rewatched the video and they are quite different.

    Let me take back my comment - it reminds me of the general Bush strategy of using fear to, well, as Obama said, "scare of votes".

    Parent

    Ah, thge "general" bush strategy (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:35:53 PM EST
    of arguing he was better on national security.

    And of course that is out of bounds when running for President. Go it. Heaven knows the President's role as C-i-C is a pretty minimal part of the job.

    Parent

    So, you don't think... (none / 0) (#102)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:44:52 PM EST
    ...that Bush's general strategy did not rely on stoking people's fears?

    Hmmm.... I guess you're right, that didn't happen.

    Parent

    So it was the music and the "tone" (none / 0) (#74)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:34:44 PM EST
    not the wolves right?

    Interesting.

    Parent

    Yes, it was, and the language... (none / 0) (#84)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:37:01 PM EST
    thanks calling that interesting... better than "ridiculous".  I'm moving up! :)

    The genre of this ad is eerily similar to the genre of Bush/Cheney ads and overall strategy of playing on people's fears.

    Parent

    BTD... (none / 0) (#116)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:52:36 PM EST
    ...I went back and reread my first post:

    I said that I did not find it offensive, "somewhat" fear mongering, and that I think - and still do - that it was clearly model on the Bush ads.  I did not - mea culpa - said I thought it was modeled on the general tactics employed in Bush ads.  That was a HUGE and really unforgivable mistake.

    But otherwise, I don't think my post was representative of the "Left  Blog outrage" (you didn't say it was, but have spoken of this in other posts).  It was answering your question.

    And then, when I cited an example, you jumped on me.  What gives, man?

    Parent

    I'm finding other ads now... (none / 0) (#75)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:34:50 PM EST
    ...from Bush/Cheney 2004 that stress the "risks" of going with Kerry in a dangerous world, too.


    Parent
    One more thing... (none / 0) (#112)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:49:42 PM EST
    ...I didn't say Clinton should not run the ad, just that she appears to be taking a page from the Bush playbook - using fear to scare up votes (you agreed with Obama's response, so I'm sure you'll agree with mine).  I did not express "Left Blog Outrage".  I said "do what you've got to do".  I should have said "Do what you think you need to do."  And that it may or may not work.  I don't think it will change anyone's minds.

    Parent
    The timing is somewhat unfortunate (none / 0) (#52)
    by po on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:21:17 PM EST
    Kristol, after all, suggested that HRC should bein running on fear just this past weekend.  

    Whether I was offended . . . not really.  but using children, the dead of night while everyone is comfortably sleeping and a phone ringing for some unknown reason is tired and suggests amateur hour.  Where's the mushroom cloud, in your head.  It's like the cutting off the ear scene in Reservoir Dogs -- better if just left to the imagination.  

    IMO, putting more focus on who should be "Commander in Chief" (rather than say, the President of the United States) is a GOP theme, not a Democratic one.  Being CiC is just one of many roles the President must play.  That, or course, won't stop McCain from using a similar ad against either HRC or BO, depending on which one gets the nomination.  Finally, BO's response, that HRC failed her "red phone" moment was short and to the point.  Here's hoping this little ditty can now be put to rest.

    Actually the longer that they both stay in the (none / 0) (#59)
    by athyrio on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:29:13 PM EST
    race, the more befuddled the republicans are about who to attack and will be fun to watch...

    Could Obama have made this same ad? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Chimster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:30:07 PM EST
    Fear-mongering or not, he claims it's a good question. If that's so, would this ad work if at the end of the commercial it showed Obama instead?

    The ad is constructed so skillfully (none / 0) (#80)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:35:58 PM EST
    that it would downright horrifying if Barack answered the phone. What would he say: "change, hope, yes we can, just words" - he's got nothing.

    Parent
    Hope (none / 0) (#115)
    by Chimster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:51:32 PM EST
    I know how Obama used "good judgement" to always have been against the war. But I'm not sure if I've seen him use good judgement yet for going on the offense with military force. If it were necessary, would he be able to make a quick emergency decision without haveing to reach out to all parties and departments for consensus?

    Parent
    Obama ad (none / 0) (#170)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:25:24 PM EST
    The Obama equivalent, would slow pan over Arlington, then focus on a mother who'd lost a son or daughter (not sheehan, someone unknown, white bread vetted, either that or possibly Tillman's brother) they'd give a short speech about how they lost their child, and how war should only choosen if American lives are at stake, then they say something either aobut Judgement or about trust, and go to Obama.

    Parent
    That or (none / 0) (#172)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:26:01 PM EST
    Just run the ad he has up now with the Air Force Chief of staff during Clinton's first term.

    Parent
    Except... (none / 0) (#201)
    by americanincanada on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:51:45 PM EST
    that the Iraq war is hardly the only crisis he will face as president, whether domestic or international.

    Parent
    I'm not offended (none / 0) (#73)
    by esmense on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:34:14 PM EST
    But I think it is heavy-handed and emotionally flat. As a former advertising copywriter, I recognize that this ad is attempting to get the attention of women -- who research shows are much more likely than men to watch commercials featuring children. I don't think the intent was to create fear, I think it was simply to reach women with imagery that they are very likely to watch.

    IF they were trying to create fear, they failed, because they used the wrong kind of images. You don't use sweet, sleeping children to create fear. You use them to create identification. (Remember the Republican ad with the wolves? Now that was scarey.)

    I'm not a fan of this kind of advertising; target group + imagery they are likely to relate to. It's simplistic and formulaic and banal. It's too busy saying "we know who you are" to allow any room for saying something memorable.

    Not all advertising has evil intent. A lot of it is just incompetent.

    Maybe that's why this ad didn't work for me (none / 0) (#85)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:37:19 PM EST
    I'm male and I have no children.

    Parent
    vj, are you saying we need to have (none / 0) (#111)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:47:53 PM EST
    kids in order to be affected by the ad? Can't you imagine yourself being the kid. That's how empathy works. But, then, in my experience, many 20-something men are a remarkably un-empathic demographic. Not, saying that's the case for you - you may be a 65 year old woman, for that matter so could I.

    Parent
    Maybe it's the medium (none / 0) (#114)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:51:26 PM EST
    Maybe if I saw the ad on television instead of a little box on my computer screen.

    I'm well out of my 20's - maybe I'm just cynical and not easily reached by political advertising?

    Parent

    It's not an effective ad (none / 0) (#77)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:35:43 PM EST
    I'm not offended, but I don't think it's an effective ad.  At least not for me.  I think the Clinton campaign wasted its money.  Maybe this sort of stuff works for their target audiences in Texas and Ohio. I dunno.

    I can't tell you how many times I've thought to myself that the Clinton campaign makes it hard to be a supporter.

    I think Mr. Obama's response was good.

    wow, too bad (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:42:08 PM EST
    because I feel, vj, that if they'd only had a more effective ad, you would have easily pulled the lever for Clinton over Obama.

    I think it's a great ad because it reminds people of the fact that this is not a peace-time presidential campaign.  Our economy is in the toilet.  Torture is being done in our name.  We don't need "hope."  We need someone who is willing to work.  The ad reminds folks of why they like Clinton, and that she knows how to get things done.

    Parent

    I did pull the lever for Clinton. (none / 0) (#103)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:45:14 PM EST
    vj, why did you pull the lever for Clinton? (none / 0) (#113)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:49:59 PM EST
    Edwards had dropped out (none / 0) (#126)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:27 PM EST
    And Obama was the only other option.  Between the two, I prefer Hillary.

    Parent
    vj, why do you prefer Clinton over Barack? (none / 0) (#174)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:28:57 PM EST
    Congratulations (none / 0) (#122)
    by RalphB on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:56:26 PM EST
    so did I, but I thought the ad was pretty good.  i'm offended that we didn't see it much earlier.

    Parent
    d'oh! (none / 0) (#130)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:59:23 PM EST
    Busted!  Why?

    Parent
    Because of this fantastic ad? (none / 0) (#131)
    by vj on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:00:28 PM EST
    vj, the new Clinton ad just came out today. (none / 0) (#229)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:38:19 PM EST
    Why did you "pull the lever" for Hillary rather than Barack?

    Parent
    I Am Not Offended...... (none / 0) (#88)
    by HsLdyAngl on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:38:30 PM EST
    In the least with Senator Clinton's latest ad.  I am an avid Senator Obama supporter and I believe that his response neutralized any negative opinions about the ad by some on the Left or in blogs.

    What I don't buy is the notion that Hillary is "more experienced" and qualified to become president.  Where exactly does Hillary have the executive experience in which she has made critical decisions which have solely impacted the course of history?  Neither Obama, nor Clinton, have this experience, nor does Senator McCain.  BTW, Hillary watching Bill make these decisions, when he was in the White House, is NOT personal experience.  

    And when Hillary did have a slight input in the course of history (voting for the authorization to use military force in Iraq and the Kyl-Lieberman resolution), she failed miserably in making the right decisions.

    So when the phone rings at 3am in the White House, I believe Obama will make the better decision on national security.

    Thank you.

    Hmmm, I think it's more effective than you think (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by goldberry on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:31 PM EST
    The people Clinton is targeting with this ad know that terrorism is no laughing matter.  Obama can't change the subject by referring to Iraq.  They are not the same thing.  

    Parent
    funny... (none / 0) (#136)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:06:58 PM EST
    ... because I have seen numerous comments on this very site saying that Clinton had no choice but to authorize the war in Iraq because she was the Senator of New York, which had been attacked.  

    Parent
    remind me (none / 0) (#171)
    by tree on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:25:26 PM EST
    never to ask you for an honest summary of the comments on this thread.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#185)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:37:57 PM EST
    Where did I say the comments were from this thread?

    I can point you to some of the comments that I am referring to.

    Here is one of them.  

    Parent

    i think you know (none / 0) (#250)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:28:54 PM EST
    full well that tree meant this site, seeing as how s/he was responding to your comment.  and your link only proves tree's point.

    Parent
    That was me (none / 0) (#189)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:41:15 PM EST
    And I asked you to put yourself in the position of being senator from New York, soon AFTER 9/11. The Iraq War strategy is popular with 70% of the US Population (see Pollingreport).  The news media is doing a constant drumbeat toward this war.  They WANTED this war.

    What would the constituents of New York want you to do?  And aren't you elected to represent your constituents?

    But you can't put yourself in Hillary's shoes in that case -- Because if you were being honest with yourself and in her shoes you'd probably have done exactly what she did.

    And it doesn't fit with your notion that Barack gave a speech against the war when he had no dog in the fight, therefore he is good and Hillary is bad.

    Parent

    Actually... (none / 0) (#208)
    by mindfulmission on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:00:12 PM EST
    ... you didn't ask me to do anything.  You made a point that Hillary voted to authorize the war because she was a Senator from NY.

    And please don't tell me what fits my notions about anything, as you have no idea.

    I simply made a point in this thread, responding to someone else saying that Iraq and terrorism were unrelated, that other Clinton supporters clearly feel differently.

    I also never said anything about Obama being good and Clinton being bad.  But I do think that Obama was right in his opposition, and Clinton was wrong in her vote.

    Parent

    Sorry (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by cmugirl on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:49:11 PM EST
    The Kyl-Lieberman argument by Obama supporters is old and tired, seeing as how it has been pointed out millions of times that he couldn't even be bothered to show up and vote on the bill.  If you don't vote, you have no right to criticize.

    Parent
    Hmmm.. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Chimster on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:46:17 PM EST
    I'm not sure there would be that huge a difference if Obama or Clinton answered (but definitely not McCain). The point is both candidates have been painted into a box by their campaigns and the media. Obama the uniter. Hillary the Fighter. Whether that's true or not makes no difference. It's all perception.

    Parent
    And what kind of judgment is he talking about? (none / 0) (#93)
    by goldberry on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:41:51 PM EST
    It is a legitimate question.  How would we possibly know the answer to that question from Obama's record?  And he is referring to Iraq where she could be talking about something like the Millenium bomber.  
    His answer wasn't particularly instructive.  
    On the other hand, if I were trying to make this point for Clinton, this is not they ad I would have made.  I would have made it look like common sense to vote for her, like buying a fire extinguisher or a smoke alarm.  

    Great Ad (none / 0) (#100)
    by blogtopus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:44:01 PM EST
    Really brings home the differences between the two.

    1. Hillary answers: Help Line (someone who knows what they're doing who can answer your questions based on their knowledge)

    2. Obama answers: Sex Line (basically telling you what you want to hear, then you pay for it)

    3. McCain answers: Who is this? Is it time for my pills? Mommy?

    4. Bill answers: Shelly, I told you not to call this number!

    okay, I'm out of control here. Need sunlight. ;-)

    McCain answers (none / 0) (#177)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:33:27 PM EST
    And this is the real problem i have with the ad, it frames the debate in terms that if Clinton wins the primaries doom her in the general... "Senator Clinton said we can't trust inexperience in a dangerous world, and she's right, we also can't trust someone who changes thier position when it gets unpopular, when the Democrats of Washington gave up on our troops, I stood with them and gave them tools to win, I've served my country for 45 years, together we can win this war, on Nov. ? vote John Mccain." Then we'd have his tagline, personally I'd go with three words: Duty, Honor, Experience. Either that or a slogan that pounds the experience meme home while attacking Hillary's achilles heal: "John McCain: Experience we can Trust"

    Parent
    Apologies if this has already been said (none / 0) (#125)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:57:51 PM EST
    (I've only skimmed the comments) but I think HRC can /should bring up the fact that within a few months that Bill occupied the WH, the first WTC bombing took place.  I remember that clearly and it was some scary stuff.  So she does have experience with those unexpected and dreadful phone calls--not to mention the Oklahoma bombing too.

    I realize it was BC's job to address the issue, not hers.  But again, she knows the atmosphere in the WH when those types of attacks occur. It is part of her experience.  

    Fair Enough (none / 0) (#183)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:37:28 PM EST
    But if you bring that up we get into Waco, and even worse on this meme, Somalia "The Clinton Administration cut and ran in Somalia, and it emboldened Al Queada, and left a nation in ruins, don't let the Clintons do it again in Iraq." Seriously, while I see how Obama would be weak in this area, at least he can play up his contrast, every Hillary's in a worse position than Kerry was.  

    Parent
    Was TL invited to participate (none / 0) (#128)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 02:58:34 PM EST
    in Wolfson's most recent conference call?

    WOLFSON

    Not me (none / 0) (#132)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:01:53 PM EST
    I wish folks would warn (none / 0) (#137)
    by Kathy on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:07:41 PM EST
    when they are linking to HuffPo and such.  I try not to give them my clicks.

    However, since I was there, I read the story.  Is it any wonder this is the take that someone at HuffPo would have on anything from the Clinton camp?  I mean, come on.  They are hardly fair.

    Parent

    Just hold your pointer over the link, (none / 0) (#169)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:25:11 PM EST
    the linked address will show its nasty self to you so you can see what it is before you give them your clicks. At least its always done that for me and my PC...

    Parent
    Who is offended? (none / 0) (#152)
    by ChenZhen on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:16:25 PM EST
    The Left blogs are in an uproar over this ad

    Which Left blogs?

    I don't think it backfires... (none / 0) (#155)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:18:14 PM EST
    ...I think it does essentially nothing.  Is it running in both Texas and Ohio?

    when McCain uses ad ad like this one (none / 0) (#165)
    by RalphB on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:22:43 PM EST
    you'll see a whole other definition of nasty.


    Desperate acts by desperate people never offend me (none / 0) (#168)
    by rdandrea on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:24:07 PM EST
    That said, it's not a particularly effective ad.

    A similar ad was done by Mondale in 1984.

    rdandrea, think about that a bit more. (5.00 / 0) (#186)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:38:28 PM EST
    In all of recorded history, can't you think of any "desperate acts by desperate people" that have actually offended you?

    Parent
    The word is 'offended' (none / 0) (#191)
    by rdandrea on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:43:24 PM EST
    many desperate acts by desperate people have upset me, p*ssed me off, etc., but I was reacting to the specific term "offended."  So I guess the short answer to your question is "no."  

    Parent
    Randrea, don't how much bout history books? (none / 0) (#207)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:59:39 PM EST
    There never was a red phone (like Mondale's ad) (none / 0) (#182)
    by sar75 on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:37:17 PM EST
    ...that was an enduring cold war myth, a metaphor for the direct line of communication that was established in the late 1960s between Washington and Moscow (not even the White House).  There never was a red phone with a flashing light in the oval office, or anywhere in the White House for that matter.

    But anyway...

    Parent

    similar ads you say? then that makes (none / 0) (#245)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:09:00 PM EST
    the so called outrage by the "left" blogs all that much sillier and self righteous.

    Parent
    Doesn't offend (none / 0) (#188)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:39:22 PM EST
    me but I must say I was waiting to see Hillary to pick up the batphone and slide down a poll to the batmobile.

    Since there is no way (none / 0) (#193)
    by CodeNameLoonie on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 03:46:14 PM EST
    objectively to determine what is the right answer to the question posed by the ad, I guess we are each left up to our imaginations.

    Sometimes my imagination offends me.

    Sometimes it comforts me.

    National security depends on our knowledge of foreign policy. It was kind of scary realizing the other night, in the Russia part of debate, that neither Obama nor Clinton currently have enough hours in the day to stay on top of world events.

    Ring, ring. Who's that? Medvedvedved--whatever. How ya doing?

    Oops, there goes my imagination again.

    Response ad (none / 0) (#216)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:15:10 PM EST
    He already has a response ad up (you have to love the speed, that should help some doubter realize he can fight back) : http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Obama_Ringing.html#comments

    Ssssso... (none / 0) (#218)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:20:59 PM EST

    ....basically it's okay for him to steal the imagery from her ad, too?  Wow.  Obama fanatics are really...I don't even have the words anymore.

    Parent
    Yes but (none / 0) (#219)
    by americanincanada on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:22:54 PM EST
    But his answer is, "I gave a speech against Iraq, wouldn't you rather have me answer the phone?"

    NO! there is more goig on in the world than Iraq. I want Hillary to answer that phone.

    Parent

    I dunno, his ad to me (none / 0) (#222)
    by BrandingIron on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:24:36 PM EST
    says that he's just more and more unoriginal.

    And yes, I too would rather have Hilary answering the phone.  HER ad subtly alludes to the sponsorship she received from all of those flag officers, too.

    Parent

    Yes! (none / 0) (#224)
    by americanincanada on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:26:50 PM EST
    I am glad I am not the only one who caught that.

    I also notice her ad doesn't say anything about what that call mgith be. It could be war, assassination of a world leader, natural disaster, anything.

    Parent

    To Boycott BO's Response Ad - Just Don't Look (none / 0) (#221)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:23:01 PM EST
    Too late... (none / 0) (#223)
    by americanincanada on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:25:39 PM EST
    I followed the link on another page. I hate that because I don't like to give him anymore traffic than I have to.

    Funny, his ad offends me. He uses her images and talks like because he made a speech against the Iraq war, when he didn't have to stand up and actually vote, that I should want him answering the phone.

    No thanks. I have seen him thinking on his feet. I awnt Hillary answering that phone becuase there is more going on in the world than just the Iraq war and the 'war on terror'.

    Parent

    i started it and then stopped it. no sale! (none / 0) (#236)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:58:08 PM EST
    He does love his plagiarism .. (none / 0) (#226)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:31:28 PM EST
    doesn't he?

    And clearly the ad worried him or he wouldn't have responded.

    Parent

    Fake outrage...love that new politics (none / 0) (#233)
    by DebzLogic on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:54:08 PM EST
    This is all so amusing to me......Obama is just as much a pol as the next guy.  The ad was meant to ask a totally valid question.  There are a lot of questions voters need to ask themselves. We need to ask our nominee some of the questions that will be raised in November...or else....we'll lose.  Also, the Obama response is getting a little old....he can't rely on that one instance.  First, he wasn't called upon to answer it, not being in the Senate.  Secondly, he has some judgement questions himself. Third, we are where we are, now what.  

    look obama supporting blogs are (none / 0) (#235)
    by hellothere on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 04:57:31 PM EST
    going to yell no matter what hillary says or does. i for one don't give a happy xxxx what they think.

    The DEFINITION of AWOL (none / 0) (#246)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:18:52 PM EST
    ******************
    For the record, in reference to my upstream post a million years ago...

    AWOL means: Absent from one's post but without intent to desert.
    (It's an acronym for absent without leave.)

    Maybe Obscure and Squeaky would like to apologize to Mr. Obama for all the terrible assumptions they made about him when I used this word to describe Mr. Obama's abdication of various responsibilities.

    Now, I am going AWOL for awhile: which doesn't mean that I'm going to be "lazy" or "shiftless" as Squeaky and Obscure previously suggested.

    Parent

    Comments closed, new thread on the ad (none / 0) (#243)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:06:16 PM EST
    is here

    that's pretty funny, (none / 0) (#253)
    by kangeroo on Fri Feb 29, 2008 at 05:38:43 PM EST
    considering obama has 4 pollsters for her one, and he's spent a lot more on polling than she has.  not to mention his penchant for pandering is clear to just about everyone at this point except for the swooners and self-justifying rationalizers.