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The Jefferson-Jackson Day Speeches: Viriginia

Here's a thread for the speeches delivered by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama at tonight's Virginia Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner. (Earlier thread on this here.)

Here is an AP summary of Hillary's speech.

Obama's speech sounds very similar -- almost a replica -- of this one he gave in Denver last week.

Update: 8:53 pm ET: There's your JFK references I predicted earlier, Ted Sorenson at work -- two in one parapgraph.

We’re the party of a man who overcame his own disability to tell us that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself; who faced down fascism and liberated a continent from tyranny.

And we’re the party of a young President who asked what we could do for our country, and the challenged us to do it.

More...and question for Obama supporters below:

Question for you Obama supporters: This is the second or third time I have heard him refer to being raised by a single mother. I thought his mother remarried when he was 4 or 5 and they moved to Indonesia where he lived with her and her husband until he returned to Hawaii at age 10 or 11 to live with his grandparents, and he lived with them through high school. How many years did he live only with his mother while she was single? Was he really raised by a single mother?

(As a single parent from the time the TL kid was two, this is of personal interest to me.)

[Update: When I saw a transcript of his speech, his reference to a single mother wasn't in it so I thought I misheard and posted a correction here. I just heard the speech for the second time again, and it prominent and at the end. So I'm removing my correction, I was right the first time.)

Update: Thread cleaned of off-topic comments and comments now closed.

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    Liked both speeches (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Hypatias Father on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:52:51 PM EST
    I should say that I am a tepid Obama supporter.  If Clinton wins, I will enthusiastically support her in the generals, but I'm saddened by the recent harshness that seems to have crept into the discourse surrounding the late primary season among both camps' supporters. All in all, I thought both candidates gave solid speeches tonight.  

    Lastly, I should admit that there is a piece of my childhood history that may predispose me to admiring Obama, though no less Clinton, and the topic of this thread thus piqued my curiosity.  I was raised by a single mom, though she did remarry in my teens.  For what it's worth, I still think of myself as being a single mom's son; and, moreover, I'm certain that this fact informs most of my political views as an adult.  Like Obama, I too stayed with my maternal grandparents for a few years while my mom returned to finish her degree.  I am not sure how I would respond to someone if, during the course of a conversation, they grilled me on the exact number of years my mother was single while I was in her care.  "Is it really fair for you to say you were raised by a single mother?--After all, when she was single, you were in her care a mere 4.7 years!"

    My question in return to the one posed in this thread:  Precisely how many years would a son like me or Obama have to live with their single moms in order to be proud of the fact?

    to be proud of the fact (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:06:01 PM EST
    I'd say, one day.

    But, pride and love for one's mother is not what I was asking. Also, my interest is from the vantage point of the mother, not the son.

    4 years as a single mother is a long time in my view -- long enough to be defining and to understand the unique handicaps single parents face economically. One year is not. Again, this comes from someone who spent 16 years as a single mother (until my son left for college-- I don't count the time after that since he wasn't living with me -- even though I continued to financially assist him.)

    I'm asking a question, not criticizing Obama or accusing him of making something up. I've looked it up several times and never gotten a definitive timeline.

    Parent

    W/i the past six months I've (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:10:47 PM EST
    read an article profiling Obama's mother and her parents.  Not sure where I read it though.  I think Obama lived with her parents when she went away to school.  Later she remarried and they all moved to Indonesia.  

    Parent
    Here's the article: (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:23:59 PM EST
    Wow, quite devastating about his father (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:55:04 PM EST
    saying that "Obama was one of the most ambitious, self-focused men he had ever met," and "after Obama was accepted to study at Harvard," his wife did not go along because he "didn't want the impediment of being responsible for a family. He expected great things of himself and he was going off to achieve them."  And she just about dropped out of her student gatherings, her own social circle.

    That was a pretty damaging first marriage, but she must have had the innate ability to recover well, marrying again only two years later.  (The average time between marriages for women is much longer than for men.)

    Parent

    I found the whole article quite (none / 0) (#79)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:57:19 PM EST
    interesting. Mom was a spunky gal.

    Parent
    But the first year of my single momhood (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:28:24 PM EST
    was the hardest, economically -- owing to the constant deferring of court dates, I didn't get any child support for a year and a half, couldn't get at my half of the joint accounts, etc.  I couldn't even get a student loan -- yes, I was back in grad school, too, but since before the split -- because the law required that I get my estranged spouse's signature, and that was gonna happen in a cold day in he**.  I was essentially homeless, broke -- and brokenhearted, because it also was the hardest year on my kids, emotionally, bouncing back and forth.  (In Obama's case, it may have been easier in some ways that his dad just split and he wasn't torn, and had a strong support system with his mother's parents.  On the other hand, of course, the questions as to why a parent would just leave can be so difficult. . . .)

    So . . . a long way around to say that it may take no more than a day to see how bad the situation is for single parents, especially those who move out of the house as I did.  But I've known others who faced few problems at all.  So it's not quantitative, it's measured qualitatively.  And no amount of child support can make up for lack of other sorts of support that the fortunate find.

    Parent

    No child support can't make up for lack of (5.00 / 0) (#179)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:36:11 AM EST
    other sorts of support but a complete lack of child support can certainly make other sorts of support even harder to provide for the remaining parent.  Walked a few steps in the shoes you write about, NOT FUN!  Survivable for the big people and usually leaves marks on the little people.

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#59)
    by Hypatias Father on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:34:53 PM EST
    Obama's mother is not a candidate.  By posing the question in this context it is surely fair to assume the intention is to cast doubt on the authenticity or meaningfulness of his claim.  And frankly, I just don't get it.  How does this help me in deciding whom to vote for?

    From the vantage of either assessing son or mother, I can see no benefit in establishing X number of years as a gold-standard for how to assess mutual hardships between a single mom and her son? And where would you or I have any authority in proclaiming 2 years to "count" while 1 year does not?

    Parent

    I sure didn't read it that way. (none / 0) (#69)
    by RalphB on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:43:58 PM EST
    It was just an honest question.  I think that going after someone's childhood or parental relationships is all the way out of bounds.


    Parent
    Why are Obama supporters so thin-skinned? (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by echinopsia on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:06:00 AM EST
    Every day I have to read dozens, if not hundreds of people (I don't watch TV for a reason) who say my candidate is a dirty liar, a filthy cheat, a she-devil, a corporate wh***, a warmonger, corrupt, inadequate, arrogant, racist, scheming, phony, cold, weak, sneaky, a bad mother, ugly, gross, old, etc. etc. etc.

    Every day. For months - no, years - now.

    If I tried to correct every one I'd not only never get any work done, eat, or sleep, I'd be attacked and verbally ripped to shreds by Obamaites.

    The fact that you think you have to interpret every innocent question as a potential attack and come to his defense over every little thing is why - don't shoot me! - people say his followers are "cultist."

    Parent

    It wasn't intended to help you (none / 0) (#82)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:04:57 AM EST
    decide who to vote for. This is a blog. It's my thoughts, that's all. I said it was a personal question and I was asking Obama supporters, who I assume are more knowledgable about his history, to provide the answer if they had it.

    Parent
    Right... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Hypatias Father on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:34:44 AM EST
    Yes.  Maybe it wasn't clear, but mine was a rhetorical question.  

    Parent
    again, taking the "ocham's razor" (none / 0) (#187)
    by cpinva on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 10:39:29 AM EST
    approach, i thought your question was pretty straight forward. anyone interpreting it as anything other than a simple request for information does so at their own risk.

    Parent
    Good distinctions needed (none / 0) (#176)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:08:47 AM EST
    here Jeralyn in my opinion too.  My daughter was the child of a single mom for the first seven years.  When I married she was very enamored with my husband.  He fetched and carried just as much as I did and was so proud to go to any school function she had going on.  We had a birthday cake bake off and huge party for the first birthday where she had two parental figures present.  He competed with me to bake her the better birthday cake.  Later he adopted her.  She never refers to herself ever as a child of a single mom.  Because I was so tired back then though I remember it well but she on the other hand seems to only view it as the time of waiting for her father to show up ;)

    Parent
    1 minte or 1 hour (none / 0) (#42)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:08:31 PM EST
    or 1 day or a couple of years....

    Precisely how many years would a son like me or Obama have to live with their single moms in order to be proud of the fact?

    However, if he eludes to being in the hardship of being raised by a single mother throughout his childhood ... it really needs to hold up..... because when/if he goes into the GE it had better hold up! The Repubs will call him out on it.

    Parent

    Partial agreement (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Hypatias Father on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:48:26 PM EST
    I take your point.  However, for opposing candidates (in primaries or GE) to turn the tables on Obama with respect to his alluding to hardship growing up with his mom, he would have to be lying outright.  Did he live with her? Was she single? Did she work too put food on his table? From what I can learn, he is not lying.  And it is really not that difficult to prove.  

    Call me naive, but I sense that anything less than being caught in an outright lie would be seen for exactly what it would be; namely, a shallow withholding of kudos for the kind of single mother success stories we need more of in this country.  

    Parent

    From MyDD on the speeches (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by RalphB on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:59:03 PM EST
    Obama's supporters are interrupting him with chants of "Obama!" This is reminding me a lot of the New Hampshire Dem Party dinner.

    At that dinner, Clinton went before Obama; he went last after speech after speech of folks who'd endorsed him and spoke in terms of his "change" rhetoric; and then as now, Obama's speech seems to be going on too long. The crowd definitely loves Obama's applause lines, but Clinton's speech tonight was officially better.

    Jeralyn (none / 0) (#1)
    by andrewwm on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 09:57:58 PM EST
    I think Obama pretty much addressed your complaints in his speech tonight. What do you think?

    i think it was very good (none / 0) (#2)
    by Tano on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:06:33 PM EST
    nice mix of substance and inspiration. Resetting the mindsets, and specific policies. Whats not to like?

    Parent
    andreww, I posted in another thread that I (none / 0) (#14)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:29:46 PM EST
    really liked him going after Bush and McCain and sounding like a proud Democrat most of the speech. Much better.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#166)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 05:03:19 AM EST
    I thought this was one of his more substantive and partisan speeches. I thought Clinton's speech was pretty good too. But of course I have rose-colored glasses. I was curious to see what other people thought...

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#169)
    by IndependantThinker on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 07:44:51 AM EST
    Obama copies Clinton. It's been obvious to me for months. He keeps his stump speech, but his ppl read the blogs and watch what she does. When she get a lot of kudos for her speeches on some point or some other behavior, then he begins to copy it.

    When it doesn't get any press, it is missing. Like the NPR expose of the Navy telling the VA not to let their employees help veterans fill out their medical benefits coverage papers. (Costs less to military because when verterans are helped they fill out the forms correctly and get better coverage).  This happened last week (the expose).  Not mentioned by the MSM.  Within 2 days Hillary wrote a letter demanding an investigation and calling for an immediate resumptions of the help by VA employees. (They used to help the veterans routinely).  Nothing from Obama or McCains camp on this issue. And for McCain who claims to be this protector of the enlisted, it is really disgusting.  Hillary hasn't removed her eye from her job "governance". She is a leader clearly.  Watch for yourself and see Obama copy Clinton.

    Parent

    Um (none / 0) (#174)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:46:37 AM EST
    Clinton has been aping Obama's change thing for the last few months, so I'd say the reverse is probably more true. Care to cite any specifics where he has copied her?

    Also, Obama has been an important player in trying to reach a peace accord in Kenya during the last month, which has flown under the radar: link

    Basically, I think they both are good progressives working on important causes that we support. There are lots of examples of both "doing the right thing" underneath the radar, as would be expected of any good progressive. So I don't want to get into a war with you about that.

    What I do think is that during his speech he really went out of his way, starting at about 23:00 in, to address many people's criticism here of his message. At about 15:00 in until 23:00, he talked a lot about policy specifics, another criticism here. I was wondering, for those that had an issue with him based on these critiques, what they thought of his response.

    Parent

    Change (none / 0) (#177)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:31:46 AM EST
    is not a Sen Obama or Sen Clinton first. As for aping "change"...they both are guilty.

    What I beleive is lost in this "Change" message is the "PAIN" that goes with "CHANGE". In that, I believe Sen Clinton was hesitant to start the "Change" message. The fact that people are going in groves to the "Change" message is one of the ALARMS for the Dem base. We've been there before.

    History going back the proves that the "Change" message when "followed through" by the elected has also brought pain to our Country in various ways. Look at history... Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Reagan, Bush Jr and more.

    Sometimes the "pain" is actually worth the "change" that comes about.  But real change has a price. In our case what that "pain" may be remains to be seen. And if the "Change" is actually "followed through". Should either of the candidates get win the election... will we have  "change"? .... and how will the "change" comes into place? .... what we will endure? ... and will it be worth it in the end.

    For sure...Should we lose the GE... then WE all lose "Change".

    Parent

    I agree in part (none / 0) (#180)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 09:38:38 AM EST
    Obama addressed this very directly at about 23:00 minutes in. I can understand the suspicion some people have based on that critique; was his response the kind of thing you were looking for?

    Parent
    regarding the single parent question (none / 0) (#3)
    by independent voter on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:08:19 PM EST
    I am a mother and a step mother. My two oldest children do have a step father (my current and final husband). I still considered myself to be a single parent in many ways- they are in college now, so things change dramatically. Were there advantages to remarrying from the standpoint of the children? Probably: a higher standard of living, more disposable income. There are drawbacks as well. One thing I can assure you: a step father is not a father, just as a step mother is not a mother.

    I think each instance is different (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by Virginian on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:27:46 AM EST
    I have a step mother, who filled that roll when I was 15 when my dad remarried after my mother died...
    I have to tell you, I honestly have two mothers, one biological, that raised me 14 years, and one that wasn't biological, that raised me the rest of the way (and then some)...so I am certain that it is situational...

    Parent
    he talks about the economic (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:12:13 PM EST
    hardships he knew growing up with a single mother. I'm asking how long that was the case.

    Parent
    Didn't he go to private schools through (none / 0) (#5)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:14:46 PM EST
    high school? Is that an internet legend?

    Parent
    To answer my own question, yes. (none / 0) (#11)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:22:59 PM EST
    5th grade through high school he went to a private school. Current tuition is ~ 16,000 per year now.

    Parent
    He got scholarships (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:47:07 PM EST
    he said tonight.

    Parent
    You asked if he was really (none / 0) (#7)
    by independent voter on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:16:35 PM EST
    raised by a single parent.
    In my very wordy opinion, he was, forever and always

    Parent
    Not fair to good step-parents everywhere. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:18:37 PM EST
    Many of us are huge improvements over the biological parent.

    He was not financially deprived  as a child.

    Parent

    As I recall (none / 0) (#9)
    by flyerhawk on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:16:44 PM EST
    There was a time he was staying with his grandparents because his mother couldn't support him.  Pre-teen and teenage years.  

    Needless to say most people have a lot more memories of their teenage years than their post toddler years.

    Parent

    She remarried when he was 5, says the (none / 0) (#72)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:47:40 PM EST
    Chicago Trib extensive bio.  So the stepfather was a nogoodnik?  Not what I thought I read.

    Parent
    from my understanding.... (none / 0) (#13)
    by A DC Wonk on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:28:44 PM EST
    his father abandoned them when he was two.  His mother remarried a few years later, but this new stepfather turned into a drinker and womanizer, which, in part, was what led him, later, to be in Hawaii with his grandparents.

    FWIW,

    Parent

    sounds a lot like bill's upbringing... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Addison on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:41:41 PM EST
    ...and hardly one that hillary or her surrogates should spent valuable time questioning or bringing up.

    Parent
    this isn't really a winning line of criticism... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Addison on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:40:30 PM EST
    ...unless you think he's out and out lying. which he's not. i mean, the benefits of, "obama was only raised by a single mother for X months, therefore he doesn't know what it's like!" coming from hillary aren't going to be persuasive. you'll just see a backlash. and do you really want the ins and outs of obama's very compelling life story brought front and center?

    Parent
    It wasn't a crtiticism (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:48:47 PM EST
    It was a question. And I'm neither a Clinton surrogate nor even an endorser. I've said I prefer her to Obama, but I'll support whoever gets the nomination.

    Parent
    J, here's a pat on the back from me to (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:06:43 PM EST
    you; parenting a 2 yr. old through school, including law school, is an enormous task.  

    Parent
    He's taking the bar here (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:14:40 PM EST
    in a few weeks. He just got hired by the public defender's office -- that's been his career goal -- and he's on cloud nine.  And for the first time in 8 years, back in Colorado, living less than a mile from me. I'm very proud of him -- and he may finally be self-supporting in a matter of months!  

    (sorry for going off topic to the rest of you.)

    Parent

    Wonderful. (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:36:22 PM EST
    seems like (none / 0) (#105)
    by white n az on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:47:44 AM EST
    that this is very much on topic

    Parent
    It's fine to question his sincerity Addison. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:48:27 PM EST
    He is implying that he was raised without any advantages when actually he had many. That's all.

    Parent
    Like what advantages? (none / 0) (#175)
    by andrewwm on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 08:52:44 AM EST
    His step-dad was abusive, his grandparents were poor. The only break he caught was a merit-based scholarship to attend the private high school in HI. His background screams broken home situation.

    Parent
    Depends on ages and situations. My (none / 0) (#8)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:16:39 PM EST
    16 year old step-daughter has lived with me full time for 11 years and I have much more influence on her financially and otherwise. It isn't a one parent home.

    Parent
    Am I the only one who reads that speech (none / 0) (#6)
    by kangeroo on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:15:36 PM EST
    and thinks to herself, "disingenuous"--with a big red flag?  I think I need to take a walk or something.

    Seems like it... (none / 0) (#58)
    by doordiedem0crat on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:32:51 PM EST
    brief walks can be refreshing.

    Parent
    single mother, small states, undemocratic caucuses (none / 0) (#12)
    by lily15 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:26:07 PM EST
    Excellent point...underlines Obama's tendency to shade the truth...also...has anyone looked at the number of people voting in these caucuses?  It is absurd to call these big wins.  The numbers are tiny in relationship to the population.  These wins mean very little for purposes of analyzing the general electorate or even the Democratic electorate.  I am shocked that delegates are selected this way.

    By the way, I loved HIllary's speech...it sounded to me like Obama copied several themes of hers.  This is a media driven Obama...because he doesn't have the popular votes on his side....These wins are designed to push up his poll numbers by making it appear he is a big winner...even though the numbers are small and the caucuses are not representative of the real popular numbers.(polling in La. should be of particular concern to Democrats...only 30% whites voted Obama)This is for the low information voter...who has no idea that these caucuses do a terrible job of picking a nominee...and only a very small percentage of party loyalists or organized gamers participate.  

    However, the coalition Obama has assembled is a losing coalition...and that should be apparent to anyone who is honest about what the results mean.

    Obama plays Bush's Theme Song tonight (none / 0) (#15)
    by lily15 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:31:18 PM EST
    Strange.  Norah O'Donnell, whose husband is a big Republican...tells us tonight on MSNBC that5 she heard this song over and over at Republican events during Bush's re election...She said it was the Bush theme song.  Why is Obama playing the Bush theme song?  Is this some sort of sublimal appeal?
    Should we be worried?  Is Obama again playing Republican narratives? Bizarre.

    He borrows themes from Clinton;s speech for his speech and a theme song from Bush.

    Are you kidding?? (none / 0) (#159)
    by keylord on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:59:04 AM EST
    "He borrows themes from Clinton's speech for his speech"

    Please... Hillary and every other candidate tried to seize the "change" mantle once Barack came along.

    Parent

    By JFK references, do you mean (none / 0) (#16)
    by halstoon on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:34:51 PM EST
    the references to refusing to wait his turn? Insisting on turning the page of history at this moment, not down the road when it's "his turn?"

    While I realize JFK had almost 20 years in Washington, I think the comparison is still apt. Obama is being told he is not ready because he's not experienced enough with Washington, but in fact he has more years of elective service than Hillary.

    That's really beside the point. The point is his judgment is better, and he's been more willing to take hard stances than she has.

    The war, of course, to start with (let me say the start of the war to negate the "but he voted like her since!!" line), plus his belief that we should directly engage Raul once Fidel is gone, and his support for banning cluster bombs. Hillary is opposite on all that. Those are SUBSTANTIVE, not PERFORMATIVE, so PLEASE stop the focus on his superiority in presentation. He's really saying something here.

    As to the single mother line, I agree in part.  I'm a single father with 3 year old boys, so I know how you feel. Their grandparents help me a lot, but I would still say that as of now they will be raised by a single dad. You're also right about his bio as far I can discern. Whether he boarded in high school, I don't know. What I would say is that his mother was single after age 10, and though he stayed in Hawaii, his mother was present in his life if not the primary caregiver, so I think it's a fair statement, and more likely it's simply a boy trying to honor his mother who he loved very much. Giving the benefit of the doubt on that issue is not a big stretch for me, and I hope you could agree. After all, when he went through adolescence and became a man, she was single.

    I Had Presumed the JFK Reference (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by BDB on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:24:43 PM EST
    was a promise to drag his feet on civil rights legislation and buy votes in Chicago?  

    Sorry, I may be a Democrat, but I consider the JFK myth to be our version of the Republican's Ronald Reagan myth, just as untrue and almost as damaging to the party.  Frankly, it's hard for me to take seriously a guy who wants to move beyond the Clintons but can't get beyond the Kennedys.  And for the record, I didn't think much of the JFK myth way before I had ever heard of Barack Obama.

    Now, Robert Kennedy, there was a man worth emulating.  But Obama sure as heck isn't running as an RFK democrat (Edwards came closest, IMO).

    Parent

    Nope, she remarried when he was 5 (none / 0) (#62)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:35:25 PM EST
    after divorcing when he was 2, so you have a lot of info turned around, a lot of misunderstandings about his formative years -- especially when he went through adolescence, when we form our worldview, etc.

    Parent
    Wikipedia on Obama (none / 0) (#17)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:40:12 PM EST
    Obama was born in Honolulu to a black Kenyan father and a white American mother. He lived most of his early life in the U.S. state of Hawaii. From ages six to ten, he lived in Jakarta, Indonesia with his mother and Indonesian stepfather.

    His parents separated when he was two years old and later divorced. So it looks like a couple of years. Then his mother remarried.

    He then returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents, Madelyn and Stanley Dunham, while attending Punahou School from the fifth grade until his graduation in 1979


    I think unfortunately (none / 0) (#20)
    by cannondaddy on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:42:12 PM EST
    many children of divorce have people coming in and out of their lives.  It's impossible for you to judge without knowing the nature of the relationship with his stepfather.

    My mother and father seperated when I was two.  I never knew my dad.  We lived with my grandmother for a while, on our own for a while and she remarried when I was eight.  My stepfather happened to be a really good man I now call dad.

    I don't think there's a percentage of your childhood you have to live under a single parent to claim your cred.


    Obama plays Bush's Theme Song tonight (none / 0) (#30)
    by lily15 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 10:57:13 PM EST
    Find the clip of Norah O'Donnell on MSNBC right after the speech commenting on the fact that Obama was playing the Bush 2004 theme song at this dinner.
    Strange.  Subliminal messaging?  Going backwards not forwards?  Not change...but more of the same? It was a spontaneous comment.

    Good ones taken (none / 0) (#154)
    by dwightkschrute on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:45:42 AM EST
    Hard to come up with new songs when all the fantastic hits like "You and I" are already being used.

    Parent
    When they can't handle the truth, they divert (none / 0) (#49)
    by lily15 on Sat Feb 09, 2008 at 11:15:45 PM EST
    or cry foul.  I merely stated a fact...Obama is playing the Bush 2004 theme song at this dinner.  Draw your own conclusions.  But it's a fact.  Deal with it instead of whining.  Facts can't just be dismissed when their inconvenient.

    You are mistaken (none / 0) (#94)
    by Hypatias Father on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 12:28:34 AM EST
    Thin skinned? Let me check...  Nope.  Skin feels to be about the right thickness.  Though it is interesting that some always frame others' comments that get under their own skin in those terms, which I assume is not only a bit of projection, but also a rhetorical trick aimed to make my thoughts seem less credible.  

    I like this blog.  I like most of what I read here, and think it has thoughtful analysis.  So, I am not sure why you think you might need to be monitored.  

    transcript vs. text (none / 0) (#120)
    by Nasarius on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:14:03 AM EST
    Just a quick note for clarification: what you probably saw was a copy of the prepared text that goes in the teleprompter, not a transcript. So it's interesting that this was an off-the-cuff remark.

    I heard Norah O'Donnell say it (none / 0) (#147)
    by lily15 on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:11:36 AM EST
    It's on a video clip somewhere.

    Parent
    Opportunist? (none / 0) (#124)
    by Virginian on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:17:02 AM EST
    What about this quote from tonights dinner:

    "The Democratic Party must be about change. Not change as a slogan, not change as a bumper sticker, but change we can believe in."

    So he says we don't want change as a bumper sticker slogan...then goes on to close the sentence with...A BUMPER STICKER SLOGAN!

    Probably a lot of Kid Rock (none / 0) (#136)
    by Virginian on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 01:43:33 AM EST
    Toby Keith maybe...absolutely no Dixie Chicks or Bruce Springsteen...:)

    In reality I have no idea...I am taking Norah O'Donnell at her word...she would know since she is a Republican shill...I believe we used to call her Noron fondly once upon a time...I guess that was a bit mean in retrospect...because there IS a difference between being a moron and being a shill (one is by choice...) :)

    Without having any clue what the song was (none / 0) (#156)
    by halstoon on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:48:21 AM EST
    I would guess it was something patriotic, you're probably right some country song about America, something to give people the warm and fuzzies about our country.

    But, I did hear a story the other day that John Mellencamp requested that McCain stop using his songs at events. How's that for a poke in the eye?

    The campaign agreed to remove him from their mix.

    Parent

    I'm not sure if you're referring (none / 0) (#155)
    by along on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 02:46:38 AM EST
    to a different section of his speech, but this bit
    We're the party of a man who overcame his own disability to tell us that the only thing we had to fear was fear itself; who faced down fascism and liberated a continent from tyranny.

    And we're the party of a young President who asked what we could do for our country, and the challenged us to do it.

    is a reference first to FDR, then to JFK.
    The other very oblique reference to JFK I don't think really counts:

    I am only here today because somebody, somewhere, gave my father a ticket to come study in America.

    That's an allusion to the story Obama told during the Ted Kennedy endorsement, about then Senator JFK establishing a fund for Kenyans to travel to the US for education.

    Other than that, I see no other JFK ref. in the prepared remarks and don't remember hearing one.

    A terrific jj dinner speech (none / 0) (#164)
    by Trips on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 03:39:11 AM EST
    Not sure if anyone ever saw this, but if they (you) got 20 minutes to kill, I'd recommend this JJ Dinner speech from the Iowa election cycle. It's a really good Edwards speech, one I easy appreciate even though he wasn't my candidate. Damn good stuff from s democrat.

    Thread Hijacked, cleaned and closing (none / 0) (#188)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 10, 2008 at 11:42:09 AM EST
    This thread got badly hijacked. It's been cleaned of off-topic comments and comments are closing. Please stay on topic or save your comment for an open thread where readers can pick the topic.