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Tiny Tent Dems: Hope and Change, Forget the Unity

Jerome Armstrong at My DD writes about "the tiny tent dems."

Also check out:

  • Eriposte at Left Coaster has the best examples, all in one thread.

[Hat tip to Avedon Carol at Sideshow.]

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    and then you've got a whole 'nuther theory... (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by white n az on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:00:35 PM EST
    Joke Line over at Time's Swampland titled "It's Getting Close to Over"

    Granted this is Joke Line and anything he says must be doused with heavy amounts of salt but this clearly is the thinking of some.

    Since the bar they are trying to project is Hillary by 20% (I think Kos pegged 19% today), it's not likely that even a double digit victory under that figure is going to change their demands to shut this down.

    Then you had Howard Dean inserting foot in mouth doing his own brand of concern trolling stating that 'super' delegates needed to make their picks known NOW.

    They tried to shut it down a few weeks ago and came off looking crass and foolish. I'm quite sure that they figure it's worth the backlash and angst that they would take for shutting it down because they would get 2-3 extra months for everyone to come to their senses.

    The problem with all of this thinking is that this entire campaign has been fraught with continual miscalculations by everyone all the time and this is clearly no different.

    Anglachel and Riverdaughter clearly are voices of great insight and I need to check them out more frequently than I have been.

    The problem doesn't go away simply because the contest is so close and there's so little hope of either candidate getting a clear victory.

    But the little tent theory itself is entirely spot on...Jerome gets it. Obviously BTD has recognized the problem with many of these progressive bloggers that are inciting their readers to the point where it will be impossible to put the Dems back together again.

    Therefore, the only solution has to be to let it go to the convention and let it all play out. That's the way the party determined how these things were to happen and to derail the process now will simply ensures that there will be a significant portion of the people who are invested in this primary to get enraged.

    Even if she wins by 20 points (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by angie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:08:07 PM EST
    (and I'm actually praying that she does just so I can witness KO have a stroke live on television) they still will call for her to drop out.  Sad, but true.

    Parent
    given that: (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by white n az on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:17:05 PM EST
    • there has been 6 weeks for Obama to become known in PA
    • that he has outspent her 4:1
    • that he is the 'media darling' (per BTD)

    If he loses by 1 point, it signifies a problem for Obama

    If he loses by 6 points, it signifies a big problem for him

    If he loses by 11 points, it signifies that he can't win an election and the super delegates need to look elsewhere

    If he loses by 16 point, he has no business entering national races.

    Parent

    I Like Your Primary Analysis Much Better (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:20:40 PM EST
    than any other I've seen so far.

    Parent
    Good heavens...he has had 6 months of... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Shainzona on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:45:54 PM EST
    great press, tons of money, and out-of-their-mind supporters...and he has still not put this thing away.

    There is something inherently wrong with that - and it's not HRC that is to blame.

    Barack Obama is a flawed candidate and will be an even more flawed nominee - and it will be painfully obvious in November should he (God Forbid!) become the Dem. Candidate.

    Parent

    Hillary's margin of victory (none / 0) (#66)
    by PennProgressive on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:53:04 AM EST
    is not likely to be double digit. Even a couple of weeks back I thought it could be  between 7 and 12% (when she was ahead in most polls by about 16). But now it seems like Obama has made significant inroad in PA. I am still hoping for a double digit win, perhaps just to find out on You Tube how KO and CM and  the rest of the gang at NBC/MSNBC and most of MSM became sick on air (still cannot watch them, hence the reliance on You Tube  and  TL). This  morning when I was  helping out at the campaign office making phone calls to possible HRC supporters, I was very encouraged by their responses. It was much better  than Thursday evening when I was calling the undecideds. Today most  people were very nice  and thanked me for helping out. (Only a couple of obscenities--one person vowed to kill my kids if I call again--apparently people  are gettinng a lot of phone calls from both camps). But what is alarming  is that, there are many who  are still undecided. The result will definitely be largely influenced by them. Last week here locally many people were privately speculating the unthinkable----an Obama victory. The ad buys have been helping Obama. I am not haring that any more, but I fear, as many of you do, that if Hillary wins by less than a double digit margin it will be construed as an Obama  victory and the calls for her to drop out will intennsify. I  hope  I  will  be proven wrong.

    Parent
    I know Zogby is worthless, but his poll released (none / 0) (#75)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:28:46 AM EST
    today (Sunday) has Obama back within the margin of error, down 3%. He had a big comeback from their poll yesterday. They must have received word from his brother, the Obama super delegate to make it closer.

    Parent
    I must be niave (none / 0) (#76)
    by Rainsong on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:47:07 AM EST
    Until this year, I never knew so much work went into spinning the numbers in polls. I hope most Pennsylvanian Dem voters dont care about polls, and vote as they were going to 6 weeks ago.

    Ok, I'm an idiot, (not even a Dem according to some, so I won't lose any sleep over the fact the Party doesn't need my vote anymore) and so, still stupid, I sent off some more $$ for Hillary, and also placed a bet on my wild guess for a 12-point win for Hillary :)

    Parent

    That's around my guessing range too. (none / 0) (#77)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:52:58 AM EST
    I just hope Zogby is as bad as usual.

    Parent
    But of course. A big win shows even more (none / 0) (#14)
    by MarkL on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:14:30 PM EST
    clearly that she is intent on making sure Obama is too damaged to win in November.

    Parent
    Can't a Big Win also show that (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Serene1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:00:53 AM EST
    Hillary will do and say whatever it takes to win and hence is not worthy of the nomination.

    Parent
    Hmm. A Wed AM headline prediction? ;) (none / 0) (#50)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:09:23 AM EST
    We could easily predict (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Fabian on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:52:52 AM EST
    at least five themes of the dkos reclist diaries.

    My contribution is:

    What's the matter with Pennsylvania?  
    With subthemes of PA voters as being racist, bigoted, ignorant rubes who don't know what's good for them.

    (BTW - I'm listening to Front Line on health care.  Excellent.  Everyone should watch it.)

    Parent

    My contribution is: (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by LoisInCo on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:00:00 AM EST
    Pennsylvania: Bitter and clinging to Hillary.

    Parent
    I sort of like Keith... (none / 0) (#19)
    by white n az on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:22:11 PM EST
    Though I simply can't watch him now and I'm still not watching MSNBC at no time for no reason but I wouldn't wish for Sean Hannity to have a stroke.

    Parent
    I wasn't serious about the stroke (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by angie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:27:52 PM EST
    (well, maybe a little).

    Parent
    don't worry about it (none / 0) (#54)
    by TheRefugee on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:31:10 AM EST
    people should be a little more forgiving of hyperbole and a little less anxious to prove that they are the politically correct ones.  That is why a harmless comment (by Ferraro) can be turned into racism or race-baiting---"Umph, OMG, I would never..that must mean that you are a..."

    Parent
    Genocidal Maniac (none / 0) (#68)
    by Serene1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:06:17 AM EST
    Apoplexy (none / 0) (#84)
    by alsace on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:56:58 AM EST
    can be literal or figurative.  We knew which one you meant.

    Parent
    Expectations games... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kredwyn on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:53:40 PM EST
    are very strange indeed.

    Pushing her margin of win up pushes his down. So that even if he loses by <19/20 points it's still spinnable as a strong showing.

    Parent

    Think about it (none / 0) (#60)
    by myiq2xu on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:38:14 AM EST
    If they are setting the bar that high, they really expect a 10-15 pt win.

    If they thought she would win buy 5 pts, they would set the bar at 10.

    Parent

    It was set at 10 a couple weeks ago (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:39:59 AM EST
    We should start charting their loss bars.

    Parent
    I just love Anglachel. (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by LoisInCo on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:04:53 PM EST
    Her writings on various topics are great to read. I'd endorse her for POTUS over Obama.

    Thank you then (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by angie on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:22:44 AM EST
    because I found her through Taylor Marsh, and I adore her too.

    Parent
    Nice blog. My first visit and I've added her too. (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:31:48 AM EST
    Some other good pro Clinton Bloggers (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Serene1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:20:41 AM EST
    I do the same (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:49:49 AM EST
    It's like anglachel peeked inside my brain and saw what I was thinking, but hadn't the ability to articulate and then took it too a whole nother level.

    Sometimes I think the Obama blogs did us all a favor when they either disgusted us enough that we left or ran others off. We not only found new blogs to hang out, we found better blogs to hang out.

    I now come here every day first thing in the morning and then have a number of other places that I visit off and on all day.

    Not all are Hillary supporters but all are insightful, and fair. They are all honest too which is something I treasure.

    IMO if you can't look at your candidate and see all the flaws, warts and other problems and still vote for them, then you are too naive to be messing with politics. Bring on the old "sausage" joke and apply it frequently to politics.

    Parent

    Discovering Anglachel (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by kempis on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:00:03 AM EST
    Many thanks to Jeralyn for this thread.

    When the louder voices of the blogosphere are herding folks into the destructive notion that they must hate the Clintons to be "real Democrats," it's wonderfully affirming to find others who articulately ask, "WTF?"

    Great writing, great observations, great blog.

    Parent

    well (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by sas on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:05:40 PM EST
    in reference to the small tent blogs-

    "You reap what you sow."

    I've got one... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by kredwyn on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:42:16 PM EST
    They're worth having. Though during the middle of it? Frustrating as all get out.

    That being said, having a PhD behind your name doesn't make you a latte drinking elitest. (I prefer Starbucks Americanos w/ 2 extra shots and w/o the water.)

    It's what you do with it and how you use it that determines how elitest you are. But that speaks more to who you are in the first place than the PhD itself.

    And some of us are able to step away from the pathos imbued campaigns to look for the substance underneath.

    I admit (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by PennProgressive on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:56:56 AM EST
    that I  have a Ph.D. and I am a Hillary Clinton supporter. Many of my colleagues and  friends who also have Ph.Ds suppport her as well.But I have been told  by the msm that I may belong to a minority. Most Ph.Ds , according to reports are supporting  Senator Obama.The  fact is a Ph.D. after your name  does not make you analytical or in general knowledgeable. I know  many Ph.Ds who are absolutely outstanding in their discipline, but do not  have a clue about anything else. At some  level, I am surprised that so many " highly educated" (not my term, a doctoral degree does not make you necessarily educated--sorry)are supporting Obama. A close examination of  policy statements  of  the candidates reveals  that  HRC's policies--particularly economic and health care policies--are superior to  Obama's. It also seeems that she  understands these issues better than he does. This is what baffles me. It seems that manny of these Ph.D's are not thinking or are not capable of thinking logically. Take for example the  "bitter/clinging" statements. While  a lot has been said and discussed about these comments, I am surprised that there  has not been much discussion about the  fundamental premise of Obama's argument that in PA or OH there have been significant job loss in small towns and rural  areas  over last 25 years and  people there have fallen into hard times. By  arguing this  he lumped Reagan, Bush1, Clinton and Bush2 together. Nothing could be  further from the truth. Take PA as an example.In the 80's for  quite a few  years, the unemploymennt rate was rather high, reaching a  very high level in 91-92. But things changed during the Clinton administration. During Clinton 1 the unemplooyment rate fell gradually and  in Clinton 2 it fell substantially. The  gains in employment benefited  all  areas in the state--some areas gained more than others, but it is not true that even in Clinton years the decline of small towns and rural areas continued unchecked. They actually improved  quite a bit. In Bush 2 years things took a turn for the worse. However, there  was some  improvement in reccent years. Now  these data are readily available and anyone particularly the "highly educated" class can look these up and if they do, they should question why Obama is making false statements about an important part of our  history and definitely trying to destroy the most successful economic legacy of a democratic president over a span of  nearly 40 years. If they could take the time  to study and analyze may be  they could be questioning  these. But  for now, they are caught up in the excitement of  the novelty of supporting  a young charming african-american person rather than supporting an older white woman who has been around the block many times. Who cares about policies and  ideas? They seem to forget that hope is not  a  plan, perhaps a good  bunper sticker. But  just because someone has a Ph.D. does not mean that he or  she  is williing  or capable of thinking analytically. I should know. I  know manny of them.

    Parent
    Jeralyn -- Gallup has Clinton back on top! (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Exeter on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:56:40 PM EST
    Gallup poll has reversed since early today but (none / 0) (#34)
    by andrys on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:32:33 AM EST
    TL hasn't picked up on it yet.  Maybe because Newsweek shows Obama 19 percentage points ahead?

      But Obama's been 50-40 average for over a week against Clinton and now it's turned around.  Completely opposite results from Newsweek.

      Large undecided may make the difference.  May not :-)

     

    Parent

    And where did you see this magic (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:36:55 AM EST
    reversal?

    gotta link?

    Parent

    Its just the gallup daily (none / 0) (#39)
    by Rainsong on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:43:45 AM EST
    Gallup Daily Dem nomination tracking polls

    Being a national poll, its been tracking tied within MOE, just for the first time in weeks Clinton has pipped a point or so over Obama.

    Parent

    But that's how it was earlier today (none / 0) (#42)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:54:10 AM EST
    so I'm not getting the reversal since then?

    She's been closing over the past few days. Yesterday they had her with in 3. Day before she had closed a few also.

    Parent

    No, it was discussed MUCH earlier today (none / 0) (#41)
    by white n az on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:52:26 AM EST
    it's not the number but the trend and that trend has been noticed on Rasmussen too because they also show Obama dropping and Hillary going up the last few days. I'm not entirely convinced that Gallup and Rasmussen sample enough for these national polls and don't put too much stock in them, except maybe to watch the trend of up/down.

    Newsweek is in the bag for Obama. Little reason to go there.

    National polls in the primary aren't worth much anyway. Electoral college polls have consistently shown Obama is the weaker candidate versus McCain.

    In reality though, the poll that matters at this point is Tuesdays PA vote.

    Parent

    electoral college vs general vote polls (none / 0) (#107)
    by andrys on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:07:40 AM EST
    I've seen the same thing you have for weeks, in that Clinton wins against McCain (for now -- situation would be so different in the GE with debates etc) in states that Obama would lose to Clinton.

      ObamaTeam is wrong that any state Clinton gets in the primaries, he would win in the general election.  Quite badly wrong.  I expect many of the undecided delegates have been watching those too.

      It's alarming how many cable news pundits don't look at this area.  I see John King was spelling it out with Pennsylvania tonight though and comparing it to areas surrounding the state which Dems must win in November...

    Parent

    Yeah, forget the unity. I've been watching (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:26:03 AM EST
    CNN's show with Rick Sanchez...according to their entire pro-Obama panel, the bitter comment has backfired on the Clintons. Now AA's think he is being called uppity by her and her supporters. The Clintons will never get back their AA support.

    Also, according to them, it is a four or five point race so I guess Hillary should just hang it up. I swear, we are more informed than them. Talk about lowering expectations.

    And, I cannot believe that something Obama said is being twisted now as a smear from the Clinton campaign. Or maybe I can believe it.

    Oh, now Sanchez says that don't you think (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:38:13 AM EST
    Obama just has a more appealing personality? Was Hillary a First Lady or a Vice-President?

    This guy belongs on MSNBC.

    Parent

    Sanchez is AWFUL (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by kempis on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:11:38 AM EST
    The guy's a nut--hyper, self-obsessed, kind of CNN's Tweety. And I think they intended to use Sanchez as an Olbermann or a Matthews, giving him Paula Zahn's old 8 pm slot for a while. But that was an experiment that failed. Who can stand to watch this guy?

    Parent
    Sanchez's style is very salesman-like (none / 0) (#108)
    by andrys on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:10:39 AM EST
    When I watch him I keep thinking of the sales guys that would drop into our offices.  

      His analyses seem pretty shallow.  

    I'm really enjoying David Gregory's 3pm PDT / 6pm EDT Election hour on MSNBC.

    Parent

    Rick Sanchez is a hyper PITA (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:45:09 AM EST
    I can't stand to watch him. He would be better with the MSNBC boyz, imo. He might have a chance at being decent if he would just calm down and breathe.

    When did "uppity" become part of the conversation? And why are they still talking about it? I thought we were past "Bitter" and on to bad debate/too busy whining?

    Parent

    I think these guys made it part of the (none / 0) (#44)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:58:13 AM EST
    conversation. They were trying to turn it into a Clinton problem and making Obama worthy of sympathy for it. After all, according to them, he's right...people are bitter and have every right to be. What spin they put on this. I wish I had paid attention to who the members of the panel were, but I'm playing Bookworm and the TV's behind me.

    And you aren't kidding, that guy needs some deep breaths.

    Parent

    Maybe someone should tell them (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:07:30 AM EST
    they're a few days behind, lol!~ I'm sure they could find something more current to blame on her ;)

    Yeah, he makes me nervous to watch. I quit watching cable a couple weeks ago except sports and food shows. I did watch the Faith Forum, but not pre or post Forum wrap ups. My life is much calmer without all these hyper over-the-top air bags ranting on and on. Watching them makes you wonder how women got the 'hysterical' label . . .

    Parent

    I've mostly given it up too. I was watching (none / 0) (#52)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:20:12 AM EST
    the young woman that Jeralyn wrote about yesterday that got released from prison after being convicted of murdering her marine husband. She was on Larry King and I just left the TV on.

    I won't lower myself to MSNBC though, and that used to be the channel I stayed on by far the most. My TV viewing has been ruined forever. Sports and not much else.

    Parent

    "I'm not bitter" buttons were a problem (none / 0) (#109)
    by andrys on Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 01:25:21 AM EST
    I did write an earlier note to say that I found Clinton created problems for herself by reacting to Obama's fundraiser statements by putting out buttons the next day for the crowds to wear: "I'm not bitter" -- which played right into Obama's hands because he wanted that to be the focus rather than his saying that as a result of bad circumstnaces they 'cling to' guns and their religion.  His analysis was a bit like inspecting bugs under glass actually.

      So, to have her crowds wear buttons that they weren't "bitter" when they had good reason to be so -- at the government or at least angry and frustrated -- that was not a good way to handle it.  (This opinion got me a '1' rating but I believe in seeing our favored candidates as human and we should be able to say something mildly critical about them.)

      Anyway, I was a bit horrified that Hillary did that, and then every time after when he got away with saying they had a right to be bitter and he'd tell the crowds that Clinton was trying to tell them they're not and that she didn't understand the pain they go through.  Gads.

      Amazing what political life can do a University lecturer and constitutional scholar for whom words and meaning should be important.  But he understood that he had to mislead people about what he'd said.

      The very next day she must have reviewed the whole thing because her speech now focused instead on the 'cling to' statements and the idea that long-time values were blamed on bad current circumstances.

      Really liked the two very positive ads over the weekend  showing her encounters with the people of Pennsylvania and concentrating on what she wanted to do for them/us. That probably had some good effect on the vote today.  

    Parent

    Chamber of Commerce attack (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:01:09 AM EST
    It's really simple, the president of the US Chamber of Commerce basically declared, ( I will find link) that they will spend millions to block the populist agenda.  What is that: health care etc.  Who has a better chance at getting any of it through?  Simple the Clintons.  They made their money, they had their glory, now they can follow through with their roots:  social justice.   And guess what, they know how to do it and they will not owe anyone anything if she gets elected.  

    Was not able to post it earlier (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Serene1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:12:01 AM EST
    so here is the link to the nytimes axelrod article

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01axelrod.t.html?ei=5124&e n=c8e20f4144cbf908&ex=1332993600&partner=newsvine&exprod=newsvine&pagewanted=all< br />
    The Hull connection is mentioned in this passage:

    Axelrod is known for operating in this gray area, part idealist, part hired muscle. It is difficult to discuss Axelrod in certain circles in Chicago without the matter of the Blair Hull divorce papers coming up. As the 2004 Senate primary neared, it was clear that it was a contest between two people: the millionaire liberal, Hull, who was leading in the polls, and Obama, who had built an impressive grass-roots campaign. About a month before the vote, The Chicago Tribune revealed, near the bottom of a long profile of Hull, that during a divorce proceeding, Hull’s second wife filed for an order of protection. In the following few days, the matter erupted into a full-fledged scandal that ended up destroying the Hull campaign and handing Obama an easy primary victory. The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had “worked aggressively behind the scenes” to push the story. But there are those in Chicago who believe that Axelrod had an even more significant role — that he leaked the initial story. They note that before signing on with Obama, Axelrod interviewed with Hull. They also point out that Obama’s TV ad campaign started at almost the same time. Axelrod swears up and down that “we had nothing to do with it” and that the campaign’s television ad schedule was long planned. “An aura grows up around you, and people assume everything emanates from you,” he told me.


    Here's that link, (none / 0) (#57)
    by cymro on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:32:17 AM EST
    ...  but it only works if if you're registered with the NYT:

    Obama's Narrator

    Parent

    They have no clue (5.00 / 0) (#59)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:37:32 AM EST
    I have been and will be a lefty.  I come from a long line of lefties. I don't need Arianna the daughter of a Greek Junta Colonel and wife of a Republican millionaire to tell me about my left politics.  Arianna's English education when her father was part of the dictatorship disqualifies her as an honest commenter on progressive politics.  But alas, the American left fell for her lies.  

    According to Wikipedia ... (none / 0) (#92)
    by Cassius Chaerea on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:42:29 AM EST
    Arianna Huffington's father was a journalist.

    (and I'm no fan of hers, btw)

    Parent

    Nope... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 10:51:12 AM EST
    She must keep someone on (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:01:01 AM EST
    permanent watch over her Wiki entry.

    Parent
    She has revised the family history (none / 0) (#100)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:38:13 AM EST
    the name is anathema in Greece.  

    Parent
    She claims he was a journalist? (none / 0) (#101)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:43:55 AM EST
    First of all she was a rabid anti feminist.  She was on the wrong side of feminism in all her career in Cambridge or was it Oxford.  In her debates against feminism you can see her real core.  Her family immigrated from Greece, when the junta fell she claims.  Why?  Cause they were known supporters of the Junta.  Her talk against feminism is the most reviled in Greece.  There was a great deal of sanitizing that has taken place.  

    Parent
    "Typical" (none / 0) (#102)
    by txpolitico67 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 11:59:46 AM EST
    like her candidate, the biggest revisionists ever.

    Parent
    Forget all that (none / 0) (#104)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:07:23 PM EST
    welcome back.  You were missed.

    Parent
    Thanks, but I am not back yet. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 08:43:06 AM EST
    But I am addicted to Talk Left.  Maybe after Tues. results I will get more sightseeing done.

    Parent
    The year of the woman! Good sign tonight. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Teresa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:16:36 AM EST
    Danica Patrick passed the leader with three laps to go and became the first woman to ever win an Indy race.

    It's an omen, I tell ya!

    YES!! Great news! (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:43:23 AM EST
    I really like her. She's got a great attitude towards things. I actually sat through the entire indy 500 one year just to watch her. It was a great race even for a non racing fan.

    Heh, and she's only 26. I hope to see her make a few more historical marks before she's done  ;)

    Parent

    I hate to say it (none / 0) (#79)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:05:52 AM EST
    but I think it had "fixed" written all over it.

    Wierd that none of the others pitted at the last minute like she did.  Wierd that she passed Helio like he was standing still.  It all seemed a little wierd.

    But I suppose it's good for women

    Parent

    Here's what she said about it (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:45:53 AM EST
    from the AP:

    "It's a long time coming. Finally," Patrick said. "It was a fuel strategy race, but my team called it perfectly for me. I knew I was on the same strategy as Helio and when I passed him for the lead, I couldn't believe it. This is fabulous."

    When I watched the Indy 500, they were discussing fuel at the end. And for some reason I think it was her that came close to running on fumes at the end.

    Parent

    Returning the favor (none / 0) (#80)
    by LoisInCo on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:15:26 AM EST
    from Dancing With The Stars (to women)? Heh.

    Parent
    Thinkin' 'bout Denver (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by karen for Clinton on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 05:00:13 AM EST
    Our last Democratic Convention featured Fogerty performing "Small Town" live, amid a flurry of flags.

    Should O get the nod that sort of reminder cannot be tolerated.

    Instead we must embrace to nominee by espousing his long standing closest friends:

    Wright and Farrakhan should lead the prayers.

    Jay Z will perform his inspiring lyrical wonders of disunity.

    Rezko with his electronic monitors and Blago will introduce the candidate they brought us.

    William Ayers will summon us all to rally around or else he will blow up Denver.

    Jackson and Sharpton will stand proudly for the Tawana Brawley they pulled on Hillary.

    And Kerry, Kennedy, Dean and Pelosi will be crowned with their Katherine Harris awards.

    The key note address by Oprah quoting from Hamas, just for some real democratic change.

    Hallelujah, the apocalypse is nigh, let me cling to my gun and my bible and be bitter.

    -1 troll, +15 snarktacular (nt) (none / 0) (#90)
    by boredmpa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:27:35 AM EST
    +20 for the tawana brawley and harris references.

    -5 for Oprah quoting from Hamas, cause I can't figure out what aspect you're snarking there.

    Parent

    no fan of Obama's (none / 0) (#103)
    by txpolitico67 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:03:33 PM EST
    but this post looks too much like something you would see on Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter's sites.

    It's funny but just another indication of where we are today.  I've been voting since 1988, when I first could, and I can't remember this much vitriol in an intra-party contest.

    Parent

    Obama Campaign Reflects His Character: A Divider (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by awang on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:41:24 AM EST
    The democratic party has clearly been hijacked by the extreme leftwing. For left-leaning independents, this is very frustrating. The extreme righwing nuts of the Republican party took control of the party and they gave us George W. Bush. The democratic party is in danger of repeating the same mistake---not electing the most capable person into the white house. Our country needs Clinton NOW. There is no time for the empty "hope" talks. In Wednesday debate, it was obvious that while Hillary has provided detailed and substantive proposals, Obama spent most of his time describing this country's problems that we already know. He provided little insight on the solutions to these problems. Obama, I am afraid, is quite hollow in terms of his plan to lead this country to a better future. We need to alarm the democratic party that many independent voters could turn to McCain if Obama is nominated. I think this scenario is quite real and it has not been talked about enough in the main stream media. Take a look. http://ivotemccainifobamaisnominated.blogspot.com/ (I vote for McCain if Obama is nominated)


    I think that Hillary is very ungrateful (1.00 / 1) (#2)
    by maritza on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 10:54:11 PM EST
    She bashed MoveOn.org which was actually created to push back against Bill Clinton's impeachment.

    I Think She Payed Back That Debt When She (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 10:57:22 PM EST
    voted against censoring them in the Senate. Obama OTOH refused to vote.

    Parent
    And they repaid her by (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:01:14 PM EST
    Endorsing Obama and becoming a fundraising apparatus for the Obama campaign when they didn't have to endorse anyone.


    Parent
    Exactly -- MoveOn is part and (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Exeter on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:06:27 AM EST
    parcel of the Obama campaign

    Parent
    It's not the membership of moveon.org (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by andrys on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:42:45 AM EST
    Moveon.org's leaders went ahead with their personal support of Obama though they got something like 8% of the membership actually voting.

    Whatever it was, it was an atrociously low number, and MANY I know withdrew their memberships and support.  

    Parent

    Approximately 197,000 Of Their Reported (none / 0) (#94)
    by MO Blue on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:49:06 AM EST
    membership of 3.2 million voted to support Obama in the primary.

    Parent
    Typical Obama doesn't take a voting stand (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andrys on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:39:10 AM EST
    He said at the time it was silly to vote on the Republican move to 'support' Petraus against the MoveOn ad and so he wasn't going to bother to vote.  

    In other words he wasn't going to bother to defend MoveOn, on the record.  I didn't care for the ad myself, actually.

      Clinton voted not to 'support' Petreus that way.  A solid Nay.

      Obama would not take a stand on the record and this really is typical of him.

      Avoidance and Evasion are his main traits.
     

    Parent

    And of course they are so loyal (none / 0) (#5)
    by Florida Resident on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:00:06 PM EST
    that even though she defended their right to make that Ad on General Betray us.  They repaid her by backing her opponent instead of waiting for the GE to back the Democratic nominee whomever it may be.

    Parent
    Impeachment wasn't going to succeed anyway (none / 0) (#8)
    by white n az on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:02:00 PM EST
    and of course, you think that Hillary is ungrateful for a lot more than that so why stop there?

    Parent
    moveon's actions then (none / 0) (#9)
    by angie on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:02:30 PM EST
    don't excuse their actions now. The ingratitude here is all on moveon's part. The hypocrisy is all on moveon's part too -- attacking the true Dem in this race.

    Parent
    Well... (none / 0) (#32)
    by lansing quaker on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:16:44 AM EST
    It's bubbling that the "MoveOn.org bash" audio is spliced and re-mixed.

    via MyDD

    Don't be so quick to believe everything you read on the internets.  I wonder if HuffPo will clarify this, eh?

    Parent

    Paul Lukasiak already (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by ChrisM on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:41:24 AM EST
    did the analysis here.

    He actually got to ask questions to the person who published the tape. Read the whole thing.

    Parent

    That's a great link! (none / 0) (#91)
    by magisterludi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:41:48 AM EST
    Axelrod's little minions. The Obama campaign, when all is said and done, will almost certainly be known as one of the dirtiest. AFAIAC, his "legacy" is already in tatters, and I am not alone. He played dirty in Chicago and he never stopped.

    Obama has been a disaster not just for the Party, but for the future of America.

    I am really steamed.

    Parent

    disaster for the Party? (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Rainsong on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 07:23:48 AM EST
    some commenters posting in response to one of Anglachel's brilliant essays opining on the 'radical chic' surrounding Obama, mentioned that they see Obama as a closet Libertarian:

    Look at Obama's economic advisers -- the staunch free trader Austan Golsbee and the Cato Institute's own Jeff Liebman. Liebman was, I think, the main power behind Obama's signals that he intends to "fix" Social Security....

    ...Now look at Obama's media supporters. Markos Moulitsas is a Libertarian. Two years ago, he wrote "The Case for the Libertarian Democrat" for the Cato Institute. Arianna Huffington, until recently, espoused an ultra-Libertarian viewpoint, advocating a complete dismantling of whatever remains of the social safety net.

    This would help explain the 'mixed messages' Obama's campaign signals send, why he is seen as liberal/progressive on some social issues, but right-wing on things like health care, social security, financial market regulation, women's issues etc.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by magisterludi on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 08:11:07 AM EST
    it was George Will's praise of Austan Goolsbee as right on economic issues is what caused me to give Obama's econ team a closer look. And me def no likey.

    Parent
    I'm not sure how analagous (none / 0) (#1)
    by phillhrrll on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 10:42:45 PM EST
    it would be to point out what bashing Bill Clinton and even more venomously Hillary, reaped for Republicans. She won a Senate seat, in a state not her own, resoundingly

    Two times ;) (none / 0) (#83)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 03:51:19 AM EST
    If Obama gets the nom, he's going to have some work to do here. We're kinda red upstate and she won a good number of them over. And worked hard at it. And in the cities, we're pretty diverse . . . And he doesn't do well with some/many of our diversities. The state will prob still stay blue, but he will need to put an effort in.

    Parent
    Eriposte at Left Coaster Post Was Great (none / 0) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:09:08 PM EST
    Good, detailed piece of documented research.

    I noticed this..... (none / 0) (#15)
    by waldenpond on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:15:38 PM EST
    Update [2008-4-18 4:29:40 by Jerome Armstrong]: For the record, I am Big Tent Democrat. :)

    and all this time... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by white n az on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:19:22 PM EST
    they've been wondering WKJM (Who Kidnapped Josh Marshall)?

    Does this explain his week off...Armando perfecting his Jerome Armstrong?

    Parent

    Wait... (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by kredwyn on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:43:52 PM EST
    I thought we were all Jerome's sockpuppets.

    I'm sooooo confused.

    Parent

    What the small tent blogs honestly believe (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:25:29 PM EST
    One of the things that runs through their blood, by that I mean it as much a part of themselves as anything else is what happened to Dean in '04.

    And because they lack proportion, they believe that Dean was abandonned by half the party in '04 and then they were expected to support Kerry without any cajoling.

    Just to be fair, I think they have a case there to some degree.  The consultant class that they've been trying to replace really didn't do much or craft much of a message to bring Dean's supporters back into the fold after their candidate was eviscerated by the media.

    But they're exposed now to be no different than the people they despise.

    Anyway, their perception is that they can behave in any way they want to.  That they can say whatever they want, and if Clinton supporters don't fall in line behind them (if and when Obama wins the primary), then that will be the fault of Clinton supporters and not them.

    That's their mindset.

    We'll see how it works.  What I can say is that Kerry lost, and that every Dean supporter in the world will claim that he or she did what they could to help Kerry win.


    In other words... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Radix on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:34:05 PM EST
    There is no right, There is no wrong, only winning.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth, Just data to be manipulated

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah


    Parent

    yeah (none / 0) (#89)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 06:00:06 AM EST
    The one that didn't do everything he could to win was Kerry. Or am I wrong in remembering that he didn't fight for every vote in Ohio.

    Politicians  allow themselves to be painted as poor losers if they fight for every vote. Personally I find it fighting for every voter's vote to be counted and to count.

    Parent

    I helped Kerry but there is a difference. (none / 0) (#29)
    by BarnBabe on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 11:54:53 PM EST
    I thought Kerry could be a good Democratic President. Of course, it would have been a Presidency of: first, second, third, or 1, 2, 3 counting on his fingers as he talks. It is never just one thing. But I am like that too. Heh. I do not have the same confidence in BHO. The more I know him the more I don't care to know him. I mean, which Obama would be the President?

    oh no..not another obama speech (none / 0) (#43)
    by drewohio1 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 12:58:03 AM EST
    look, the first one I heard was good, the second was good, the 10th was unbearable...I get it... its so repititious, so obvious, so tired.

    This guy is good, but so are alot of good speakers.. I just am so amazed by the glazed over eyes he garners in his speeches.

    Has anyone noticed that his crowds are getting younger and younger.. and Hillary's has crowds of all ages and all classes...

    Could never figure out the appeal (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by Stellaaa on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:02:33 AM EST
    they all sound like high school valedictorian speeches pressed through an Oprah new age hug.  

    Parent
    "Pressed through an Oprah new age hug" (none / 0) (#63)
    by ChrisM on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:45:48 AM EST
    keyboard + tea = cursing at Stellaaa! :-)

    Parent
    I've been trying to figure out (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:33:24 AM EST
    the best way to describe my visceral reactions to the clips I've seen of Obama rallies.

    Parent
    Attending a religious revival? (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by nellre on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 01:51:20 AM EST
    There is a religious/mystical/we believe in miracles sort of aura about his rallies.

    Parent
    yeh revival meetings... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Rainsong on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:13:07 AM EST

    Unfortunately, they might work in the primary:(

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:18:15 AM EST
    It's all that but it's revivalism by way of the "I'm a mac/I'm a PC" advertisements.

    "Getting it" isn't about knowing what "it" is, it's about getting something that other people, other people who aren't as special as they are, don't get.


    Parent

    Big Tent revival meetings. (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Fabian on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:09:09 AM EST
    That's my take.

    When I go to the Gore event in a few weeks, I'll try to pay attention to the crowd there for comparison.  I expect that the average Gore supporter asks hard questions and doesn't expect simple answers.  People aren't going to go see Gore so they can feel good.

    One of the things about the wooing of Gore supporters on dkos was the apparent expectation that Gore supporters' passion and enthusiasm was completely transferable to any candidate.  I found the idea ludicrous.  I still do.

    Parent

    This sentence (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 02:22:01 AM EST
    People aren't going to go see Gore so they can feel good.

    Gets as close as anything else to what I think it is.

    Parent

    Glad to Hear it . . . (none / 0) (#85)
    by Doc Rock on Sun Apr 20, 2008 at 04:10:39 AM EST
    . . . said "out loud"!  Again.

    Agree with you about the blog bias (none / 0) (#106)
    by AnninCA on Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 09:53:52 AM EST
    Huff has really imploded since it broke the bitter story, I think.  Now, she's banning most Hillary supporters right and left.

    That's OK.  It's a relief not to put up with the bias.