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More Inanity . . .

from the "Netroots." This time from Matt Stoller:

Clinton is running as a full-blown conservative.

What a dopey thing to write. While I agree with Stoller's criticism of Clinton on the gas tax holiday, see Krugman, some bloggers seem incapable of stopping at legitimate criticism and must jump the shark to foolish inaccuracies.

Just dumb stuff.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only.

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    She's running as a full blown Conservative (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:10:26 PM EST
    huh?  I could help more Republicans get into office if they keep giving Americans universal healthcare.  It's a terrific idea......too bad Democrats didn't think of it first.

    Yes! (5.00 / 8) (#11)
    by litigatormom on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:14:24 PM EST
    That's the way to build a unity pony!  Have Republicans endorse fair-minded judges, competent administrators, universal healthcare, withdrawal from Iraq, middle class tax relief, an end to corporate welfare, a rational global climate change policy, protection of reproductive freedom, putting up a wall between church and state instead of between Arizona and Mexico...and I will vote Republican!

    Parent
    he he.....who knew we were Republicans (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:16:16 PM EST
    Huh (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by chrisvee on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:50:57 PM EST
    I'm apparently a Republican.  Who knew?

    Parent
    Oh you should had heard (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by TalkRight on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:11:11 PM EST
    what Chirs Mathews and his panel was saying about Hillary regarding her oil tax holiday...

    If this is pandering then what was the tax relief checks for??

    It is pandering (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:12:21 PM EST
    but the funny thing is Tweety will not say McCain is pandering.

    Parent
    I think it is a smart response to McCain (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by BernieO on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:33:15 PM EST
    and I would like to see the Dems in Congress push for what she proposes - a gas tax holiday paid for by a windfall profits tax on the oil companies. I do not think it would ever pass because the Republicans would likely filibuster, but I still wish Democrats would try to get this adopted. It would be a popular move and put the Republicans on the spot.
    Hillary's position makes McCain look fisclly irresponsible for proposing a tax cut which would seriously diminish highway money -something the public strongly supports and Obama look passive for doing nothing. And who knows, maybe Republicans would be so intimidated they would go along. What would the downside be? A respite in inflation and a tax on excessive oil company profits that would help keep our roads up. Seems perfectly sensible and good political strategy to me.

    Parent
    Dems need to do exactly that (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by RalphB on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:35:24 PM EST
    because McCain and Kyl have introduced McCain's version of a gas tax holiday bill in the Senate.  

    Parent
    I forgot to add (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by BernieO on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:44:05 PM EST
    that she also wants to increase the oil supply by temporarily releasing oil from our strategic reserves which would counteract the pressure to raise prices to the pre tax cut level.

    The Dems need to stop look like they are standing around with their fingers up their noses, or some other place..... Sometimes it is how you play the game that matters.

    Parent

    Republicans won't filibuster (none / 0) (#37)
    by ineedalife on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:41:37 PM EST
    They will do whatever makes McCain look good. Bush can veto it and play the bad guy, thereby validating the Maverick. But in the end nothing gets done anyway.

    Parent
    The Passion of the Netroots makes objectivity (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by tigercourse on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:12:15 PM EST
    a fleeting characteristic. I've noticed that a fair amount of the "netroots" has an inability to judge where politicians fall on liberal/conservative scales. For example, Bayh and Mark Warner are probablly pretty equally moderate. But Warner is beloved and Bayh is despised. Conservative McCaskill is popular. Moderate Cantwell isn't. And on, and on.

    How very creative of him (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by RalphB on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:30:37 PM EST
    Those guys have went around the bend toward joining the Taliban of Left Blogistan.  Just make it up if it's not there for you.  

    Parent
    Yes. . . (none / 0) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:14:47 PM EST
    The Passion of the Netroots makes objectivity a fleeting characteristic

    . . . it's a lonely life out here, but someone has to live it.

    The Passion of the Netroots.  Wasn't that by Mel Gibson?

    Parent

    McCaskill Only Became Popular On The Net (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 09:53:19 PM EST
    after she endorsed Obama. Before that she was regularly raked over the goals in the comments for voting with the Republicans on Iraq and FISA. The day she announced her endorsement, she suddenly became the beloved Senator from MO. In fact, people who had no kind words for her before had a memory fart and claimed they always liked her.

    In reality, she is not overly popular in the state 11/07  SUSA (last poll I could find) Approve 48% Disapprove 47%

    Parent

    Not to mention (none / 0) (#53)
    by cal1942 on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:23:22 AM EST
    the blog hero coronation ritual.

    Some Obama supporters (admitedly in comments on an orange festooned blog known to all) were all giddy about Chuck Hagel as a possible VP choice.

    It's also either funny or disgusting to witness 'liberals' drinking Obama kool-aid, boosting him as the liberal hope when every shred of measurable evidence indicates he was the most conservative of the Democrats in the race for the nomination and is the more conservative of the two remaining.

    It always seems to come down to one issue at the exclusion of all others.  There's no attempt to view the whole picture or to place issues in context.

    I withdrew from a Nation Associates discussion group in part because most of the participants exhibited that trait.

    If a politician is strong on ONE of their issues, that politico becomes a shining hero in spite of the balance of the record.  A politician on the "right" side of all of their issues is condemned for not making their very bestest and most favorite issue at the top of the list.

    Parent

    This whole campaign... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by citizen53 on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:13:02 PM EST
    is dumb stuff, and much of the blogosphere has bought right in.

    Overkill, the American pastime, has turned the race of President into an illustration of the corrupt nature of the system itself.  

    I guess how does that explain (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:13:22 PM EST
    her more leftie health care?  These guys only have a binary analysis took:  Progressive/liberal, good/bad, us/them.  

    Clinton Has Repeatedly Run to the Left of Obama (5.00 / 6) (#9)
    by BDB on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:13:55 PM EST
    on domestic issues.  Or doesn't Stoller remember all those other Krugman columns on healthcare and the candidates' economic plans.

    Apparently not (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:15:27 PM EST
    Would like to hear from Krugman on this but what the hell does he care what a bunch of crazy bloggers think.

    Parent
    Some pundits don't get through (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:14:10 PM EST
    crazy making days as level as you do ;)

    I would love to tell you (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:17:49 PM EST
    it is due to my inherent brilliance but frankly, this is just an example of Stoller descending to idiocy.

    Parent
    He's on the list of Blogopundits (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:18:56 PM EST
    who actually do need editors--for substantive reasons.

    Parent
    Totally ridiculous (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:15:36 PM EST
    BTW, Stoller is implicitly buying into the premise that McCain is a conservative. I'm not sure it's tactically a good idea to buy into that if we want to depress RW turnout in the fall.

    Always planning ahead you are (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:18:22 PM EST
    I suppose you'll be a character in 'Primary Colors II, When Girls Went Wild'.

    Parent
    I called the head honcho of the Orange (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by tigercourse on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:21:22 PM EST
    "not very bright" or something like that a year ago over a different matter (the way he responded to threats of violence against a female blogger). I think I was in the right ballpark.

    Mildly reassuring that (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:22:40 PM EST
    at least the early comments to Stoller's post are also calling him an idiot.  That blog is not exactly a place where Hillary supporters hang out.


    I think you have it backwards They decided (5.00 / 6) (#30)
    by tigercourse on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:23:18 PM EST
    that the only way to destory the Clintons was to prop up Obama's candidacy. For many of them, that is their primary goal.

    That is the more accurate sequence (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by BernieO on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:35:12 PM EST
    It is well documented that the media has hated the Clintons (and Gore) for a long time. That hatred preceded their crush on Obama.

    Parent
    What, did she just say... (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:37:17 PM EST
    ... that the Republicans have better ideas than the Democrats on a "whole host of issues"?

    Hillary the conservative candidate (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Prabhata on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:16:05 PM EST
    If she can win with that perception, hooray!  If that's what it means "she'll do anything to win", hooray!

    I Don't Get the Problem with Hillary's GasTax Plan (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Richjo on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:25:49 PM EST
    Krugman says it is harmless, but pointless; but he is wrong about it being pointless. What she is advocating allows Democrats to be for cutting your taxes just like Republicans, but without the harmful consequences that the Republican plan would lead to. The benefits may be totally pyschological, but that if that actually helps with voters, who cares. It is not harming anyone, and it is helping Democrats seem like the don't want to tax people just for the sake of taxing them. Also by taxing oil company profits that are deemed excessive it sends a powerful message about standing up and putting limits on the oil companies. I respect Krugman, but he is flat out wrong on this one.

    Her plan seems Keynesian and appropriate (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by jerry on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:33:54 PM EST
    Krugman forgot more on his first day of econ than I remember in my year of it.  That said, some people, not Krugman, are saying what is needed right now is a tax increase to reduce consumption.

    I agree that in the long run we need a carbon tax, but in the short run, over the summer, in a recession, the idea of encouraging people to spend and subsidizing that with a temporary government reduction in taxes seems the right thing to do.

    If she does get a windfall profits tax it takes away the problem that Krugman noted with her proposal.  And it's good optics to play against John McCain, to take his plan and seemingly make it more fair by adding in a windfall profits tax.

    I think the folks who are absolutely wrong are the ones saying that that we need a tax increase, or a government subsidy on bus fares, or government incentives to build rapid transit. Most people are not served well by buses because of where the routes are compared to where they need to go.  So adding buses to existing routes or making bus fares cheaper doesn't solve the problem for many people. And while we need more and better rapid transit, that's not a short term solution.

    Keynes never did nothing to me, so I say go for the Keynsian tax holiday.

    Parent

    GLOBAL WARMING (none / 0) (#54)
    by diogenes on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:18:55 PM EST
    Decreased prices equal increased consumption equals more global warming.  Is that a bad thing or not?

    Parent
    Stoller's Pretty Sharp, . . . (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Doc Rock on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:36:51 PM EST
    . . . but has some maturing to do.

    Conservative? (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by cawaltz on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:38:12 PM EST
    In what way does he believe she is running as a conservative? Other than agreeing with McCain on a gas tax, she doesn't have a single policy I could see conservatives rallying around. She is for universal coverage, not HSAs. She doesn't want to extend the tax cuts for the top of the ladder. She wanted to heat old peoples homes and spend money on government programs(heh I could see conservative blowing a gasket on that one).

    Stoller lost me last summer (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Josey on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:53:39 PM EST
    when he decided the Edwardses were sexist and racist!
    Yes - he's very immature to throw around the sexist and racist labels so casually with no thought to people's reputations.

    Could be (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:15:58 PM EST


    Shark 54, where are you? (none / 0) (#28)
    by andgarden on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:22:02 PM EST


    Cause, or effect? (none / 0) (#31)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 07:24:12 PM EST
    When the net roots decided that the only way to prop up Obama's candidacy was to destroy the Clintons,

    Are you sure it wasn't a case of deciding that the only way to destroy the Clintons was to prop up Obama's candidacy?

    Let's not call people idiots please (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:00:11 PM EST
    Disagree with their ideas if you'd like but I'm not going to host name-calling here. Particularly of progressive bloggers.

    Which progressive bloggers are those? (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:10:32 PM EST
    Would 'full-blown winddbag' be acceptable? (none / 0) (#52)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 10:48:52 PM EST
    If not, please disregard.  :-)

    Parent
    And w/his own neat little Olbermann Jr. headline! (none / 0) (#43)
    by lilburro on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 08:13:50 PM EST
    Neato!

    Also what could be more conservative than wanting to play the Bosnia ad over.  and over.  and over?  

    Ergo, Stoller is conservative.  I assume he will happily obtain and overpay for his own healthcare, shrug when his gay neighbors can't get married, bomb bomb Iran, and applaud federally subsidized faith-based programs.  Um, you know, like Clinton does.

    She Did Propose Abstinence Only Sex Education (none / 0) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 10:00:11 PM EST
    Oh wait, that was Obama.