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Elevating the Discourse?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:25:28 PM EST
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The person who kidnapped Josh Marshall is at it again:

So why is it that when Howard Wolfson gets asked about Andrew's switching his endorsement from Clinton to Obama on MSNBC, he questions whether Andrews [sic] is really from Indiana. Why go there?

Are you freaking kidding me? This is the scandal of the day for Josh Marshall? Joe Andrew compares the Clintons to Rove and Lee Atwater and Marshall has the vapors because Wolfson mentioned in passing that Joe Andrew is a DC lawyer/lobbyist? Marshall has jumped the shark. Again.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

Comments closed.

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    • Elevating the Discourse? | 201 comments (201 topical)
    I'm no expert (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:29:15 PM EST
    but I'm convinced that there must be more than one shark out there. The one fish can't be at it all of the time. :D

    I'm kinda feeling bad for the shark... (5.00 / 7) (#13)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:35:40 PM EST
    It must be frustrating to be jumped so often by so many people.

    You'd think that someone would let the poor shark jump him or her...just once.

    Parent

    Don't feel bad for the shark (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:38:13 PM EST
    Sharks, unlike some Presidential candidates and their supporters, do not have thin skin.

    Parent
    I know... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:40 PM EST
    But he's getting jumped so often that I'm thinking he deserves to do the jumping at least once...

    Parent
    The Shark Only Worries When Someone (none / 0) (#132)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:11:38 PM EST
    actually lands on him.  If I were trying to jump that landshark, Joe Andrew, I would purposely fall on his sorry butt!!

    Parent
    Aren't sharks continuously moving? (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:36:49 PM EST
    Plenty of chances to jump and re-jump.

    When I read that post at TPM I should have made a little bet with myself on how long it would take for BTD to flag it.

    I really appreciate how Josh didn't link to a story so we could see all the other things Wolfson had to say.

    Parent

    What does jumping the shark even mean? (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by Deadalus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:37:51 PM EST
    I think we should throw the phrase under the bus. ;)

    Parent
    Nah... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:00 PM EST
    the phrase is as old as the episode of Happy Days where the Fonz quite literally "jumped the shark" on water skis wearing swimming trunks and his leather jacket.

    Parent
    And that episode (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by kayla on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:31:21 PM EST
    was the one that made viewers realize that the show had lost all its credibility.  The Fonz water skiing???

    Parent
    Ha! Yeah, the 35 yr old guy (none / 0) (#200)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:44:26 PM EST
    playing the 18-20 yr old had nothing to do with it!!!

    Parent
    good call.... (none / 0) (#180)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:35:58 PM EST
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

    Parent
    Oops, forgot it was waterskis.. LOL (none / 0) (#195)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:41:18 PM EST
    I remembered it as being on his motorcycle..damn, I must be getting old. Sigh.

    Parent
    "throw the shark under the bus" (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:52 PM EST
    for extra points

    Parent
    The web site tracks when (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:51 PM EST
    shows have gone off track and become parodies of themselves

    LINK

    As this campaign is coming close to doing as consultants argue about the origins of delegates rather than the substance of what they have to say, and TPM fulminates over what consultants say about the origins of delegates, etc.

    Parent

    aaargh (none / 0) (#72)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:10 PM EST
    Here's the real link, not the decoy I posted above.

    Jump the shark

    Links and I are not getting along today.  I can't see them and can't make them.

    Parent

    Back in the olden days, there was a show (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:39:22 PM EST
    called "Happy Days". It starred Ron Howard and Henry Winkler. Winkler played a character named The Fonz. Sort of a tough motorcycle riding leather jacket wearing high school drop out who handed out advice to the kids. When the show started running out of storylines, they came up with one where Fonzie jumped a tank full of sharks on his motorcycle. The show went downhill from there and was cancelled shortly thereafter. That is where the original "jump the shark" came from. It's what you do when you are desperate for ratings, or votes.

    Parent
    OK, he has a link now, (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:17 PM EST
    but he didn't when I first read it.

    Parent
    feel the power, ruffian! (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:11 PM EST


    Parent
    heh - you are diplomatic (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:49:21 PM EST
    thanks for not calling me a blind old bat.

    Parent
    It's likely a flock of Manatees. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Salo on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:09:19 PM EST
    or a litter of Tuna.

    Parent
    CNN won't shut up about it (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by janarchy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:31:30 PM EST
    Everyone is acting like Joe Andrew = Terry McAuliffe or Ron Brown or even Howard Dean. Has any of us ever heard of him before this? Why does he matter? Meanwhile Andrew Cuomo just endorsed Hillary and no one is even mentioning it. I know, he doesn't count...sigh

    The stacked decks just continue to make this whole primary season untenable.

    Well (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:33:59 PM EST
    That is fun for them. I feel confident that no one in Indiana gives a sh*t.

    Parent
    Oh, I know (5.00 / 6) (#120)
    by janarchy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:07:46 PM EST
    It's just the non-stop propaganda that gets to me. None of us know this Joe Andrews from Adam and suddenly he's the biggest most succulent SD ever to land on this earth because of his endorsement and his word is gold. eyeroll

    Meanwhile there were a number of SDs going for Hillary today including Cuomo (and yes, we all knew he'd back her but there's been no mention of anyone endorsing her today that I've seen/heard) even if they're inevitable i.e. Cuomo and the NY State comptroller.

    The DNC is worried about AAs and young voters throwing tantrums about the nomination being 'fixed' but once again, something smells rotten in the state of Denmark. It's just depressing to me.

    Parent

    It's sidesplitting (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Salo on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:11:52 PM EST
    The more High info you are the more you are brainwashed.

    I'd like to know if you have to watch 8 hours a day of MSNBC to be high info.

    And be a long term blogger to be creative class.

    Parent

    Huh... (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by FlaDemFem on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:50:59 PM EST
    The DNC is worried about AAs and young voters throwing tantrums about the nomination being 'fixed'

    Well, if Hillary wins the popular vote and Obama gets the nomination, the DNC will have to worry about the rest of us thinking it was fixed, and there are a lot more of us, and we are the ones with the money. If they think that the Obama money machine is going to keep rolling, they had better think again. His demographic has limited funds, and they are staking most of them on this election. They won't have a lot to spare for the DNC in the future. And I doubt Obama will bestir himself to help anyone else unless it is in his own interest. He doesn't act like a party loyalist. Doesn't play well with others is the phrase that comes to mind.

    Parent

    spit up my coke laughing n/t (none / 0) (#101)
    by Lil on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:57:52 PM EST


    Parent
    Andrew Cuomo endorsed Clinton? (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:39:41 PM EST
    Darn it, that's two pieces of bad news for her on the same day!

    Parent
    We've seen this show before (5.00 / 10) (#38)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:28 PM EST
    How many times have we already seen the media and Obama supporters play out this exact same script?

    Right before a critical primary where Obama looks vulnerable, they come out on cue and start calling for Hillary to drop out.  They try their best to create a sense of momentum for Obama.  They try their best to ignore the latest polling data.  They talk about how Hillary is just hurting the party.  Then Hillary wins anyway.  The next morning they minimize her victory, bring out the math again and they find ways to explain away Obama's loss rather than focus on why voters chose to go with Hillary.

    Parent

    Except this time (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:37 PM EST
    Every indicator clearly points the other way. So we'll see.

    Parent
    Not every indicator (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:53:58 PM EST
    I hear that superdelegates are flooding to Obama today.  He has the momentum.  ack.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:14:30 PM EST
    "Some people say?"

    Parent
    Flooding? (none / 0) (#135)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:13:09 PM EST
    Did I miss something?

    Parent
    yes, my sarcasm :) (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:15:00 PM EST


    Parent
    And when Hillary becomes president (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by felizarte on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:43:38 PM EST
    and proves herself to be the best president this country ever had; she becomes a genuine American epic heroine for centuries to come.  All the unfair obstacles placed in her path; all the known and unknown enemies, even those who are lurking for now ready to pounce at the first opportunity; these are just heroic encounters in the tradition of the Iliad, or Judith and Deborah, biblical heroines.

    Parent
    Andrew Cuomo hadn't already endorsed her? (none / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:32:27 PM EST
    Given that he's from New York, I'd say that's kind of embarrassing.

    Parent
    He endorsed her long ago (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:34:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Figures (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:35:34 PM EST


    Parent
    Cuomo... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by michitucky on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:12 PM EST
    He is a Clinton supporter, but NY elected its add-on SD's and he is one of them.  She picked up 4 from NY today.

    Parent
    And other than on (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by janarchy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:09:15 PM EST
    New York local news, there's been no mention of it. Whenever Obama picks up someone, trumpets blare, fireworks go up, the heavens open up. Someone endorses HRC and there are crickets. Unbelievable.

    Parent
    come on it's bad for her anyway (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:42:22 PM EST
    you know you want to find a way to say it.

    Parent
    Um, no, it's nothing. Just as expected. (none / 0) (#51)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:06 PM EST


    Parent
    He's been obviously supporting her... (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:33 PM EST
    ... for a while. He was about as undecided as Donna Brazile.

    Parent
    True...he did (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by americanincanada on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:10:11 PM EST
    but he was not a superdelegate before today.

    Parent
    They are acting like it's Bill Clinton. (none / 0) (#151)
    by Salo on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:18:14 PM EST
    No less.

    Parent
    I remember... (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:34:10 PM EST
    ... a few months ago, when I sent Marshall an email about some other topic, and asked at the end if he was leaning towards Obama, as his posts seemed that way. I never got a response.

    A few days later, he posted that they had counted the emails saying they were biased towards Obama and those saying they were biased towards Clinton, and they split 50-50. I.e., "you morons--we're being fair and balanced--it's you guys who are seeing things in a biased way."

    How incredibly unaware, or willfully dishonest, he was being.

    What on earth happened to that guy? He went past self-parody months ago and is reaching Andrew Sullivan-like levels of derangement. It's astonishing.

    I remember that post at TPM (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by BGP on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:46 PM EST
    and I thought at the time that a lot of people must have had a lot more discerning eye for Clinton bias than I had.

    Parent
    I remember it too (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by wasabi on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:30:48 PM EST
    It was shortly after the comments started turning heavily negative and the titles they used for their blog entries suddenly started looking awfully biased in Obama's favor.  I guess that he didn't get more complaints from Clinton supporters because we had already started to abandon his site.

    Parent
    He vehemently and agrily (none / 0) (#125)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:09:07 PM EST
    denies he is an Obama partisan.


    Parent
    Still? n/t (none / 0) (#166)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:26:41 PM EST


    Parent
    Straws ... (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:36:34 PM EST
    for grasping at.

    The Marshall-Pod's latest MO.  

    No straw is too small to grasp in his meaty, extraterrestrial controlled mitts.

    Good thing the Obamans (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:38 PM EST
    are so on board with their candidate's oh-so-believable strategy of making this primary about issues.

    [head explodes]

    Parent

    You have to admit it's funny (none / 0) (#27)
    by Deadalus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:39:16 PM EST
    that Wolfson says he's only "originally" from Indiana and not "actually" from Indiana.  For the Clinton campaign to make this distinction is just rich--how many states has she been from now?  Six?

    Parent
    Well, yes (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by david mizner on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:56 PM EST
    It was stupid. But significant? No.

    The sphere's gonna have to elect a new Poobah cause JMM ain't cutting it.

    Parent

    Oh c'mon lighten up (none / 0) (#112)
    by Deadalus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:04:10 PM EST


    Parent
    worrying about this quote from Wolfson (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:47:51 PM EST
    strikes me as alarmingly desperate or paranoid coming from the Obama side.  Obama could effectively clinch the nomination by winning both states Tuesday.  Aren't you guys excited?  Just ignore Wolfson and the other irrelevant math-impaired people... it's party time soon!  Right?

    Parent
    All signs pointing to yes.... (none / 0) (#114)
    by Deadalus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:04:59 PM EST
    If you can't read the writing on the wall--that Obama will be the nominee, I'm not sure what I can do for ya.

    I'm already partying, and this is "the fun part".

    Parent

    Cool, enjoy (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:15:23 PM EST
    If you are right you started early and can be pretty hammered when it happens. If you are wrong at least you had some fun. :)

    Parent
    Hey I think you may be right.... (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:21:14 PM EST
    ...Obama is the candidate crafted from clay. Thanks for clarifying that for me and my simpleminded brothers and sisters who support Hillary. Unfortunately, I prefer my candidate to be crafted of blood and guts and steel.

    Parent
    If you keep saying the same thing over and over... (none / 0) (#169)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:27:27 PM EST
    ...Jeralyn will delete you for chattering. So maybe you better change it up. Just a friendly tip. ;-)

    Parent
    Well, maybe because (5.00 / 0) (#205)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:48:25 PM EST
    we nominated Kerry and Edwards in 2004, AUMF 'yes' voters all, with the blessing of Barack Obama?

    I guess it is the unapologetic part that has you over a barrel. I don't demand insincere public apologies from politicans. She knows what she did wrong.

    Parent

    How sincere, how noble, how invisible... (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by katana on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:48:31 PM EST
    For me, the most important issue of our generation is the sacrifice of American legitimacy and national standing, not to mention the sacrifice of blood and treasure in the Iraq war.

    Fair enough.  So what have you (and your fan-club generation) done to prevent it, or end it?  (Hell, even Cindy Sheehan got busted--and lost a son.)

    What's that you say--you're too busy getting Senator Obama elected.  Right.  

    But then again, other than the speech that cost Senator Obama nothing and had no impact, what has he done to prevent it, or end it?

    What's that you say--he's too busy creating a vision (and running for President).  Right.

    Parent

    ugh (none / 0) (#187)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:37:16 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:42:28 PM EST
    and Obama's contributing to fund the war hasn't cost anyone their lives? How IS that convincing 16 GOP senators to agree to leave Iraq strategy going?

    I don't know what alternate reality you are living in but in my reality a perfect Democrat doesn't leave any individuals uninsured. I'll vote for him over McCain but I am not under the delusion that the guy is the perfect democrat.

    Parent

    wow. this is just so funny that (none / 0) (#156)
    by kangeroo on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:21:15 PM EST
    all i can say is...  wow.

    Parent
    and McCain will be President. (none / 0) (#159)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:22:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Ok, then please leave (none / 0) (#165)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:25:32 PM EST
    We'll just do our thing, be delusional, and you guys go over to Obama celebration. Really we don't mind.

    Also I don't want to be around you guys when Obama loses the nomination and there is a collective explosion of millions of brains.

    Parent

    Sorry my mom said not to feed the trolls N/T (5.00 / 5) (#173)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:28:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes, call us stoopid (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:39:20 PM EST
    That will make Clinton supporters mroe liekly to vote for Obama.  Didn't you get the memo about extending the hand -- or the hoof -- of the Unity Pony to Clinton supporters?

    Parent
    LOLOLOL (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by eleanora on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:40:57 PM EST
    You should go hang out where the intelligent people do then, because TL is positively infested with low-information voters who think Hillary is going to clean your guy's clock. Love your username, BTW--subtle, yet zesty! ;)

    Parent
    You're a smart person (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:44:59 PM EST
    You figure it out.

    Parent
    Mommy my troll is broken, its stuttering... N/T (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:42:50 PM EST


    Parent
    No one reading your comments here. . . (none / 0) (#193)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:40:01 PM EST
    The only question is whether we can come together to defeat John McCain.

    could possibly have any doubt about the depth of your sincerity on this particular issue.

    Parent

    How many has Obama been from? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:56 PM EST
    Seriously, this is weak. Can't you bring some better criticism than that?

    Parent
    I doubt it. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:42:24 PM EST
    This is laughable.

    They've tried to change the subject about 40 times today and Wright is still a huge problem for the campaign.

    You reap what you sow, Senator Obama.

    Parent

    Yep, I'm pretty sure (none / 0) (#62)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:05 PM EST
    people in Indiana know who Rev. Wright is at this point, but if you asked them who Mr. Andrew or Mr. Wolfson are, you'd hear crickets chirping.

    Of course, Rev. Wright shouldn't matter, but like Sen. Obama said regarding old attacks on Sen. Clinton, they may not be fair, but they're out there and that's the reality of the situation.  Chickens roosting, indeed.

    Parent

    Well, he learned ... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:54:11 PM EST
    everything he knows about policy in the playgrounds of his Indonesian primary school.

    Those Indonesian soccer pitches are awash with 5 year-old masters of Geopolitics.

    Parent

    Obama is every state in this Dem primary ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by bridget on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:04:06 PM EST
    From sea to shining sea ....

    Maria Shriver along with the Kennedys campaigned like crazy for Obama in California and Maria said something like: Obama represents California best (paraphrase) and told a not so convincing fable.

    Well, she should know. Shriver, the Kennedys, Shwarzenegger ... none of these people incl. Obama are from California.

    But then ... What else is new.

    Parent

    Sure (none / 0) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:34 PM EST
    But as justification for Marshall's attack of the vapors?

    Parent
    This matter won't be settled until... (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:50:15 PM EST
    we find out what Aravosis thinks of these despicable comments from Howard Wolfson.

    I would like to know just how much to donate to Obama based on this latest outrage, you know.

    Parent

    If there is any relevant point.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by ineedalife on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:47:42 PM EST
    it is that Andrew is probably a D.C. superdelegate, not an IN superdelegate. Obama is trying to impact the IN race and having this guy endorse in Indianapolis, and acting like he speaks for all things Hoosier, is a bit disingenuous.

    A commenter on another blog had a timeline of Andrew quotes. This guy really tries to make news. Only recently he was saying superdelegates should be voting the way the popular vote goes and should not be shutting things down. Now he does a complete 180. He is completely uncredible. Is this a guy whose virtue JMM wants to champion?

    Parent

    This place is like the delusion forum (1.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Deadalus on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:06:24 PM EST
    JMM isn't "championing his virtue", he's lampooning Wolfson's silliness.  That quote from Wolfson was just plain funny, and I'm glad it got picked up.

    Parent
    So you don't really exist? (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Marvin42 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:16:29 PM EST
    Your posts are a product of my delusional mind?

    Parent
    Very pithy today, BTD ... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Ellie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:38:05 PM EST
    "The person who kidnapped Josh Marshall ... "

    Re: my subject line, no I didn't just get back from the dentist -- that's next week -- but you've been on your snark game lately.

    It could just be the tonic effect of schadenfreude talking, but the p!ssy ones have been fun lately too.

    I believe that's (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by david mizner on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:13 PM EST
    a Sommerby line.

    Parent
    Yup (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:20 PM EST


    Parent
    It is indeed (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:45:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Duly reminded: always check out the Daily Howler (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by Ellie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:55:12 PM EST
    ... daily.

    I've narrowed my daily reads to two or three sites due to the latest madness infesting the inner netz, but the Howler's on my weekly route. My weary brain could really use a daily shot of reason again.

    Parent

    Am I the only one... (5.00 / 14) (#23)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:38:08 PM EST
    who had never heard the name Joe Andrew until this morning?

    Nope...n/t (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by michitucky on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:36 PM EST


    Parent
    He got what he wanted (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:45:12 PM EST
    The audacity of endorsing the guy losing all momentum.

    Parent
    I doubt it (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:45:24 PM EST
    but I really doubt anyone cares what Joe Andrew thinks now.

    Parent
    I'm waiting to hear about (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by lookoverthere on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:28:24 PM EST
    Julie Andrews.

    You know, the nun and nanny vote.

    Parent

    so (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by sas on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:36:04 PM EST
    he gets his 15 minutes

    Parent
    Most likely (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:45:49 PM EST
    I don't recall ever hearing his name. I think that in the past I was a more typical voter who didn't really pay much attention to the minor players. Andrews seems to have been and is a minor actor except that he is a SD. His only claim to fame at this point is that he has changed his support. Who knows, by the time it comes to actually casting his vote he and hopefully other will realize that Sen. Clinton is more electable against McCain.

    Parent
    Who? (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:51:17 PM EST
    ;)

    Parent
    My point exactly :) (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:53:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Nope. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by janarchy on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:11:58 PM EST
    And I'm pretty sure I'm pretty up on who was the DNC chairs over the past 20 yrs.

    Parent
    It's funny (5.00 / 8) (#28)
    by david mizner on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:39:30 PM EST
    that JMM claims that comments like this have done a lot of "damage" to Clinton.

    Really? Wolfson's comment is gonna sway voters in Indiana? This is MSM--uh, I mean blosopheric--narcissism, JMM assuming that the little things that bother him bother normal people.

    Just stupid stuff (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Well see these are the kinds of vicious.... (5.00 / 9) (#57)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:57 PM EST
    ...attacks that Andrew warned us to expect. It may sound like nothing on its face, but Josh knows that in true Rovian/Atwater fashion....what Wolfson really meant by his remark is that Andrew is a back stabbing, baby eating, ungrateful Judas. Everybody knows that's what "originally from Indiana" really means. </snark>

    Parent
    A lot of the criticism (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by eric on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:19:11 PM EST
    at TPM is like this.  They talked about the bad things that Mark Penn did, and now Wolfson does...

    It is essentially concern trolling for the entire Clinton campaign.

    Template:

    "How could ____ of the Clinton campaign be so stupid as to say ____.  This will damage her."

    Parent

    The Clinton camp... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Marco21 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:50:34 PM EST
    has done more damage than they realize  with their negative comments.

    The guy who kidnapped Josh certainly lacks self-awareness.

    Obama bloggers must have to buy industrial-sized Windex bottles to keep cleaning their big glass houses.

    Parent

    Unity (5.00 / 9) (#36)
    by BDB on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:13 PM EST
    That's what those Obama Fan Boys are about.  

    Can you feel the love?  The desire to bring the country together?  The party together?  

    And, yet, despite all that Unity, I'm still skeptical if Obama wins the nomination that I'm going to be getting a Unity Pony any time soon.  But then why would they want Unity with me, I support Clinton so I'm clearly a racist.

    It's a tough way to make a living (5.00 / 8) (#45)
    by makana44 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:12 PM EST
    http://hotair.com/archives/2008/05/01/video-the-obamas-on-today/

    Here is a video of the Obama's on the Today show this morning in their first major post-Wright interview. It's astounding. Obama complains about how difficult it is for someone with his name to get elected. Michelle cuts off a pointed question with, "This isn't helping my kids." Even more amazing, she refers to politics as "a tough way to make a living." So shallow. They are tentative, defensive, and...bitter.

    Compare them to Hillary on Fox yesterday (or anywhere, actually)...and they aren't even in the same universe. What is Obama doing here?  Hope? Change?  Just buzzwords. Becoming President once seemed like such a good idea. Especially if he could get there quickly, without all the years of work and effort.  Remember how Michelle said he gets just this one chance to do it? Wow...talk about passion and commitment. Talk about a good reason to try to sneak in line without having to earn the right to be there. But now it's all a drag. No fun when you're not winning easily and being the object of adoration.

    I don't even think he'll go on to a distinguised career in the Senate. Michelle doesn't think it's a good way to make a living. Don't make enough money as a Senator. In a few years from now he'll just be a celebrity making a lot of money writing books and sitting on lots of corporate boards.

    I haven't watched the video... (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:46:45 PM EST
    ... but I've lost count of the number of times Obama has suggested that he has a hard time because of his name or his background.

    Doesn't he realize he's essentially accusing people of being close-minded, if not prejudiced or racist? Did he learn nothing from the San Francisco eruption? Or does he really think so little of us?

    Parent

    it didn't seem to matter in Wisconsin (none / 0) (#106)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:02:15 PM EST


    Parent
    There maybe a hint of resentment (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Fabian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:29 PM EST
    Michelle may find herself in the position of many a spouse - sacrificing continuously in order to support a spouse who may never return the effort.  What can a spouse do when Ambition is the Other Wo/Man?

    Parent
    She supports him (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Democratic Cat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:51:19 PM EST
    makes her own mark in the world, waits her turn, and runs for president. :-)

    Parent
    First she needs to win a senate seat. (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Marco21 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:56:38 PM EST
    Twice! :)

    Parent
    She's going to be "kept busy" (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Fabian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:03:05 PM EST
    raising their kids.  It's the "politically correct" role.

    Heh.  Barack Obama is no Bill Clinton!

    Parent

    Michelle Obama (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by Emma on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:15:25 PM EST
    Michelle Obama is no Hillary Clinton.  But if Obama gets the nom, she'll get the same treatment.  I wonder if she'll do as well as Hillary has done?  I think not.

    Parent
    I just watched as much of it as I could tolerate. (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:01:45 PM EST
    He again says (as he did in SF) that people have a hard time voting for an African American named Barack Obama. It's beyond doubt by now, if it ever was, that he really believes there's a widely spread vein of prejudice throughout America, and even in just the Democratic electorate. Personally, I deeply resent the charge. I've voted for two different minority candidates for Congress in my last five congressional elections. It's insulting.

    He also says he and Michelle grew up in less privileged circumstances than either Clinton or McCain. I don't know McCain's background, but it's not like Clinton grew up rich or anything.

    Parent

    Really! (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Emma on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:16:45 PM EST
    Less privileged than Bill Clinton? That strikes me as not right.

    Parent
    He meant Hillary... (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:21:00 PM EST
    I couldn't help but notice the contrast--Obama talking his name, his upbringing, while Clinton is talking about jobs and gas prices.

    I'm sure Obama would like to be talking about something else, but right now he's having trouble doing it.

    Parent

    He is taking Rove's advice (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:26:56 PM EST
    and talking about his family.  

    I need to get the rest of Rove's list to find what comes next.

    Parent

    are you kidding? (5.00 / 0) (#190)
    by DJ on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:39:27 PM EST
    Obama is Obama's favorite subject.

    Parent
    Oh. (5.00 / 0) (#191)
    by Emma on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:39:41 PM EST
    Duh! for me.  But, still, I don't think he was less privileged than HRC.  Still strikes me as not quite right.

    Parent
    wasn't the Grandmother (5.00 / 0) (#202)
    by ccpup on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:46:57 PM EST
    who helped raise him a Vice President at a bank in Hawaii?  And I'm pretty sure Barack went to Private Schools whereas I think Hillary went to public school.

    If all he has is his Bio to run on, the campaign is running scared and in worse shape than I thought.

    Parent

    If this is what we are reduced to (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by cawaltz on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:47:44 PM EST
    why not next time aroud head to the local Walmart to pick our next nominee. I'm sure we can find lots of folks that didn't have a "priveleged" upbinging. Geez, for that matter what comprises privileged? If I had a swimming pool in my backyard does that make me privileged? This whole entire privileged thing is so contrived. I am just sick of it.

    Parent
    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by kenoshaMarge on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:02:02 PM EST
    Is the criteria for the best presidential candidate now he/she who grew up the poorest? Who knew?

    Parent
    Michelle (5.00 / 5) (#168)
    by cmugirl on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:27:04 PM EST
    grew up in a middle class home on the south side of Chicago. Her father was a Democratic Party precinct captain and she and her brother both went to Princeton.

    John McCain was born to a military family - both his father and grandfather were four star admirals. The family naturally moved around a lot - McCain attended 20 schools before college. He didn't seem to have a harsh life growing up (except for the moving around bit), but then again he was a POW for 6 years, so I think if the narrative comes down to who had a rougher life, I know who wins hands down.

    Parent

    You're right. (5.00 / 0) (#192)
    by OrangeFur on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:39:52 PM EST
    I don't think voters are moved by arguments about who had it tougher growing up. To the extent that elitism is to be an issue, he needs to realize that elitism is a state of mind, not a statement of wealth.

    You're elitist if you think you're better than everyone else. And Obama clearly gives off that vibe to me.

    Parent

    actually, I've never heard of this Andrews fella (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by thereyougo on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:11 PM EST
    except from Josh and TL. I think Hillary is taking this like when they tried to shame her by saying they were raising millions and millions of dollars each month and said she was getting used to being outspent. Now they're using the SDs. So what? She's working hard and gaining on Obama thats the story.

    A great majority of the SDs are keeping quiet, so the trickle thats come out, don't deliver much bang for us except for Josh and KOS and who goes to KOS anymore?  

    I think the American public doesn't care either at this point, just tell us who its going to be!

    Ha! (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by OxyCon on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:58:28 PM EST
    Nowhere in Andrew's earlier self serving rant did he ever say that the Clinton campaign would call him a DC lobbyist!
    He was wrong. /snark

    Even he couldn't have predicted that.... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:02:46 PM EST
    ...they could stoop so low! ;-)

    Parent
    Is Obama becoming uncool? (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:03:49 PM EST
    Just asking.

    I think... (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Oje on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:14:35 PM EST
    We should create a profile of the "typical" Obama supporter from the self-important and obtuse conspiracy theorists: Rev. Wright, Joe Andrews, and Josh Marshall.

    I was just over there (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by MonaL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:22:08 PM EST
    at TPC/TPM screaming at the Obamabots!  Andrea Mitchell said:  "Andrew is a SD from IN," Wolfson says, "no, I don't think he's from IN..." (as in, he's not a IN SD, he's actually a MD SD.)  Mitchell says, "oh like Hillary from NY, Arkansas, PA?"  That kind of stumped Howard (who was on the phone), and he paused for a sec.  Now they're jumping up and down about that!  Josh is an idiot, so is Andrea Mitchell and all the Obama supporters.  Awful.  They're foaming at the mouth over there.  I need some air.

    The official list (none / 0) (#203)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:47:32 PM EST
    If that was what Wolfson meant, he errs. Here's the list of superdels by state. Joe Andrew is listed among the 12 superdels in the Indiana delegation.

    Parent
    BTD (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:36:20 PM EST
    I was wrong about you.  you work tirelessly and are very fair in your assessments.  Please accept my apologies.

    WKJM (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by lambert on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:11:01 PM EST
    I find Whoever Kidnapped Josh Marshall slightly pithier than "the person who kidnapped Josh Marshall."

    And all hail The Howler, a human among bots, for inventing this one.

    Wow the Obama people need to toughen up (4.60 / 10) (#6)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:33:31 PM EST
    We've heard about needing to have thick skin, but these Obama hyperventilators seem to have NO skin at all.  They've been rubbed raw by the failure of their delusions to come to fruition and now even the blow of the wind is enough to propel them into agony and sense of victimization.

    Now, now. (1.00 / 0) (#4)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:32:42 PM EST
    BTD, just this very morning you complained about Joe Andrew "going negative" when he suggested that the Clinton campaign would attack him.

    Now that he's proven correct, it's still Andrew's fault.

    Anyway, you miss Marshall's point altogether--Wolfson questions whether Andrew is "really" from Indiana, while he speaks on behalf of a woman from Illinois via Arkansas who is serving as Senator from New York.

    Who is opposing a guy from Hawaii (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:38:56 PM EST
    who went to school in NY and is now representing Illinois?  what's your point?

    Parent
    Don't Forget He Is A Hereditary Native Son Of (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:51:51 PM EST
    Kansas since his grandparents grew up there.

    Parent
    My point? (none / 0) (#40)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:41:49 PM EST
    That questtioning whether an Indian superdelegate is really from Indiana is a boneheaded thing to say.

    Parent
    The issue is who cares? (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:21 PM EST
    Of course you guys sitting around all day looking for something to glum on to, found a contrived nothing.  So, after the Single women voters hysteria, go on this one.  Eat your hearts out.

    Parent
    Great, now you are calling him (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:54:13 PM EST
    an Indian.  (Just kidding!!!)

    I understand your point now.  Yes, that was a boneheaded thing to say, but in a day where Andrew has been talking non-stop and saying one bone-headed thing after another, Wolfson's fixationt here seems like samll potatos to me.  

    The real Josh Marshll will be extra PO'd at his imposter when he breaks out of whatever basement he is in.

    Parent

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#115)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:05:34 PM EST
    I understand your point now.

    Thank you.

    Parent
    He is from DC (none / 0) (#73)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:16 PM EST
    That is the fact.

    He is originally from Indiana though I imagine very few Indianans are aware of that.

    Parent

    Making a list... (none / 0) (#110)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:03:58 PM EST
    ...checking it twice--yup, he's an Indiana superdel.

    So you folks are so busy calling people "Obamabot" and all that you haven't bothered with the initial questions:

    1. Why is Howard Wolfson saying things to discredit Joe Andrew?

    2. Now that Wolfson has questioned Andrew's credibility, doesn't that mean Andrew was right earlier this morning?


    Parent
    Is NOT being from Indiana discrediting now? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:06:10 PM EST
    You are tangling yourself up here.

    Parent
    No tears, no tangles. (none / 0) (#128)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST
    Not tangled.

    He's an Indiana superdel.
    Wolfson questions whether he's actually from Indiana.
    That means ol' Joe was right this morning.


    Parent

    He is a DNC Superdelegate (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:13:49 PM EST
    originally from Indiana.

    He has lived in Washington for a long time now and is a DC lawyer/lobbyist.

    What's the problem?

    Parent

    Ask Howard. (none / 0) (#145)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:15:38 PM EST
    What's the problem? Beats me. Ask Wolfson.

    Parent
    Just to refresh your memory..... (none / 0) (#150)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:17:33 PM EST
    "I've sparred with everyone from Lee Atwater to Karl Rove. . . .The same words will come out of the [Clinton campaign's] surrogates' mouths to attack me that the Republicans used -- and that demonstrates the very hypocrisy of the old politics," he says.

    This is what Andrew said...so even if I were to accept your, in my opinion extreme, interpretation of Wolfson's remarks being offensive, you cannot possibly believe that these remarks rise to the level which Andrew was predicting? Well maybe you can believe that, but there's no way I'm buying it sorry.

    Parent

    Oh that's so hilarious..... (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:08:16 PM EST
    ...Andrew stunk up his own credibility with his ludicrous remarks. Wolfson could have said Andrew has nice hair and the Obama camp would have turned it into an attack. If I really felt that such a ridiculous claim warranted the amount of time it would take me to do it, I could easily find scores of times when the Obama campaign minimized the impact of endorsements for Hillary. It's what you do in the circumstances.

    Parent
    Andrea Mitchell (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:18:44 PM EST
    who took an 'oh by the way' correction of her made it into an issue. She described Andrew as 'superdelegate from Indiana' as if representing Indiana was his official capacity. Wolfson wasn't even trying to discredit Andrew, just correct Mitchell and move on. Mitchell elevated it with the off point comparison to Clinton, Wolfson corrected her again, amd moved on.

    Then Josh stopped the video segment at the point where Wolfson did move on to his real point.

    If Mitchell could get through 2 minutes without mis-stating the facts, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Parent

    Wait up (4.69 / 13) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:33:25 PM EST
    Not being from Indiana is an attack now?

    are you freaking nuts?

    Parent

    It's scary isn't it (5.00 / 11) (#11)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:35:18 PM EST
    Admit it man, it's getting scary.  Kool aid doesn't begin to describe what some of these people are on.

    Parent
    It is absolutely incredible (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:36:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Indiana Andrew (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by Decal on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:55:49 PM EST
    C'mon now.  Even the combined power of the malevolent minds of Rove and the late Lee Atwater could never have come up with anything like the Clinton campaign's brilliant black-ops smearing of Andrew (just as he eerily predicted).  Questioning his Hoosier state bona fides?  Diabolical!  Is there nothing Hillary won't stoop too?    

    Parent
    Can I echo BTD from before (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:23:31 PM EST
    and say that we have WAY better trolls than  you?

    Parent
    I don't know andgarden.... (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:24:39 PM EST
    ...I kind of like this troll.

    Parent
    A satirst in our midsts! How priviledged we are... (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
    ...today.

    Parent
    This really isn't helpful (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by CST on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:36:08 PM EST
    And I'm an Obama supporter.

    Now you're just spewing.  I know it can be frustrating, but this kind of baseless attack is really uneccessary, especially against one of the site bloggers.

    Hillary is not going to nuke Iran, unless Iran nukes Israel... you'll have a hard time finding a president who disagrees - although I do think it was an undiplomatic way of saying it, also uneccessary.

    Parent

    Obama-Berry Punch? (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by Robot Porter on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:17 PM EST


    Parent
    I laughed (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:54:53 PM EST
    Is that a drink or a special combo move that knocks out Hillary in the video game?

    Parent
    both (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by ccpup on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:15:02 PM EST
    but the move only works AFTER you drink the punch ... while standing on one leg holding one arm straight up in the air and humming the Unity Pony Theme Song (a tune strikingly similar to the theme from Bonanza, oddly enough).

    Parent
    hilarious (none / 0) (#178)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:33:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Kool aid (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Dave B on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:42 PM EST
    Whatever they are drinking, it's lowering their pH.

    You may have to think about that one...

    Parent

    Not I ;-) (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:56:02 PM EST
    I can smell ketoacidosis from across the Internet. LOL

    Parent
    It's lace with (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:58:19 PM EST
    hopium.... (I saw that on another site and I finally understood)

    Parent
    Acidic? (none / 0) (#146)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:16:08 PM EST


    Parent
    Uh, yeah. (none / 0) (#34)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:40:30 PM EST
    Not being from Indiana is an attack now?

    Uh, yeah. If you're supposed to be a superdelegate from Indiana, then questioning whether or not you're actually a resident of the state is what I would call "going negative."

    Nevertheless, you're still misrepresenting Marshall's point - that making a fuss lends greater impact to Andrew's defection.

    Parent

    Well jeez then why is your side so afraid of these (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:57 PM EST
    ...attacks. I mean attacks that have to be parsed and explained and regurgitated so many times over are quite weak, aren't they. These are the kinds of things that should be swatted off like flies. LOL. But of course its much more fun to hyperventilate and act the victim.

    Parent
    Oh please (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:49:46 PM EST


    Parent
    He's not supposed to be. . . (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:53:10 PM EST
    a superdelegate from Indiana.  He's a superdelegate because of his past status as DNC officer.  The fact that he is located in DC isn't relevant one way or the other to his superdelegate status.  

    Parent
    That's absurd (none / 0) (#118)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:06:38 PM EST
    And as far as I can tell, the only one who's "making a fuss" is TPWKJM.

    Parent
    Marshall's point is still wrong (none / 0) (#181)
    by ruffian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:36:00 PM EST
    Wolfson didn't make a fuss, he just made an 'oh by the way' correction of what he considered an error on Mitchell's part, then moved on to his main point. Which Josh did not bother to include on his video slip.

    Parent
    Sorry. (none / 0) (#18)
    by QuakerInABasement on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    Sorry, that was somebody else's point, not Marshall's. His point was not that the questioning of Andrew's bona fides is scandalous--it's that it's inept. It elevates the importance of Andrew's endorsement.

    Parent
    I see, he was giving strategy advice (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:39:08 PM EST
    to Wolfson.

    Riiiight.

    Parent

    Ha! (5.00 / 4) (#76)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:44 PM EST
    Are you joking?

    you must be joking.

    Parent

    What a coincidence (none / 0) (#9)
    by 1jpb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:34:14 PM EST
    I just read that at TPM.  Then, I wondered if BTD would comment so I came here.

    Looks like: Yes.

    My only thought about JM's post was; how (if at all) would BTD react, so I obviously I wasn't moved by what JM said.  I've also ignored the substantial Andrews related chit chat here and elsewhere, I just don't care.  Come to think of it, maybe my response reinforces the main point of JM's piece.

    A NEW conspiracy bigger than women ... VOTING?!? (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Ellie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:08:36 PM EST
    You can't possibly be suggesting that a blogger would comment on another blogger, in front of Gawd and everyone, for how can such a thing rest upon the very foundations of truth and not rend them like a calamity of biblical proportions !?!

    Has Citizen Markos at Newsqueak been informed of this incredibly unforseeable event???

    Parent

    I doubt it (4.50 / 8) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:36:26 PM EST
    since Marshall had a conniption over it.

    Sometimes I wonder about some of you.

    I actually had a conniption over Andrew comparing clinton to rove and Atwater.

    I think my point is valid and makes Marshall's vapors utterly ridiculous. But you see it requires a functioning mind to understand that.

    Parent

    Speaking for only myself, (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by 1jpb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:43:03 PM EST
    I really don't care about this endorsement.  I took note (for a second) when I first read about it, it reminded me of Wilhelm, but then I went back to wondering how SDs would break for the rest of the day.

    I couldn't even read whatever it was he (Andrew) wrote, I saw that it was more than a paragraph, so I moved on.

    But, that's just me.

    Parent

    you speak for just about everybody I think (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:47:20 PM EST


    Parent
    It's good to know I'm not totally (none / 0) (#123)
    by 1jpb on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:08:25 PM EST
    out of touch with mainstream thinking.  Because I have definitely missed the boat on the Wright stuff.  At first I was very interested in how that story was played in the media.  But, a few days ago I got to the point that I strongly resent that story being played.  And, I don't mean that I'm concerned about the damage to BO, at this point I don't care about that. I'd probably say yes if somehow I could choose BO dropping by 25 points if it meant I that wouldn't have to hear or read another pundit yammering on about this--that's probably hyperbolic (because, obviously, I can easily cut myself off from the echo chamber), but I truly can't understand the continuing fascination with that story--of course I've known about this issue for half a year, presumably others will eventually hit the limit of how many times they need to hear this stuff repeated.

    Parent
    Ouch (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:37:46 PM EST


    Parent
    May I give this a double? (none / 0) (#21)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:37:59 PM EST
    IACF!

    But-but-but-CLINTON!!!

    L.O. Freaking. L.

    Clinton Made Me Do It n/t (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:54:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Too long for a bumper sticker. (none / 0) (#55)
    by Fabian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:44:27 PM EST
    Maybe just the
    B-b-b-b-but CLINTON!

    I could go for that.

    Parent

    IACF (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:48:03 PM EST
    (It's All Clinton's Fault) is nice and short.

    Just sayin'. ;-)

    But I like yours too.

    Parent

    I want the sarcasm to be obvious. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Fabian on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:49:37 PM EST
    IACF! would be taken seriously by too many people!

    ;-)

    Parent

    I bow (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:53:37 PM EST
    to your obviously superior political acumen. ;-)

    Parent
    how' bout (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    "Clinton made me do it."

    That bumper sticker could reduce road rage across America.  Drivers everywhere will smile knowingly and forgivingly, saying to themselves "ah, no wonder.  No problem!  I understand why you were driving 20 mph in a 50mph lane."

    Parent

    Snap You Beat Me By A Few Seconds n/t (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:55:59 PM EST


    Parent
    beat you by a few seconds...to that parking spot? (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:57:57 PM EST
    you know why, don't you.

    Parent
    Why? n/t (none / 0) (#129)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST


    Parent
    because......................... (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:13:32 PM EST
    look at my bumper sticker, buddy!

    Parent
    Perfection! (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by madamab on Thu May 01, 2008 at 03:56:30 PM EST
    Make sure you've got one of these pics to go with it.

    (semi-blogwhore, just pic)

    Parent

    why can't we stop talking about this primary (none / 0) (#113)
    by mffarrow on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:04:20 PM EST
    for a little while?

    Things are really getting out of hand, and there are lots of things we should be working on that we're not.

    Can't we just take a little break from the primary, and do something constructive?

    Go right ahead! (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:11:05 PM EST


    Parent
    You Do Have A Choice Not To Talk (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:14:18 PM EST
    about it. That is the good thing about the net. If you really want to talk about something else, you can find someplace that is discussing the subject,

    Parent
    most places in the blogosphere (none / 0) (#186)
    by mffarrow on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:36:39 PM EST
    Are talking about the primary right now, and little else.  And most of the discussion devolves into sarcastic, insulting comments and ad hominem attacks.

    I'm asking if maybe the blogosphere, or at least this site, could take a break from the primary pie-fighting, and focus on something else (like branding McCain for the general election).

    Parent

    Soon. (none / 0) (#119)
    by sweetthings on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:07:30 PM EST
    The movement from the Supers appears to have started in earnest. I'm beginning to suspect that this will be settled before June.

    We're closing in on the finish line. Just a little longer...

    Parent

    WOW (none / 0) (#209)
    by Josey on Thu May 01, 2008 at 04:58:15 PM EST
    >>>May 1 (Bloomberg) -- Northwestern University withdrew an invitation for the Reverend Jeremiah Wright to receive an honorary degree at this year's commencement.

    Josh's post (none / 0) (#210)
    by just victory on Thu May 01, 2008 at 05:01:39 PM EST
    Here is the link to Josh's "we're fair and balanced" post.

    the real JMM is out (again) (none / 0) (#213)
    by pluege on Thu May 01, 2008 at 06:33:37 PM EST
    this is the real JMM of 'I was for invading Iraq before I was against it' fame.

    Jaws (none / 0) (#214)
    by tdraicer on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:56:54 PM EST
    JMM (we might as well stop pretending he was kidnapped-this is who he really is) hasn't jumped the shark. It ate him. And there is nothing left but a stain.

    Elevating the Discourse? | 201 comments (201 topical)