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Thursday Night Open Thread

I'm watching Grey's Anatomy. If you'd rather be chatting, here's an open thread.

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    I saw the start af "harball" and---- (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kenosharick on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:25:31 PM EST
    matthews and the gang are talking about the unstoppable Obama "juggernaut" as though there are no problems at all!!! And once again an Obama super getting HUGE attention while the Clinton supers (such as Gov. Easley) barely merit a mention.

    and that's why I don't watch MSNBC (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:29:34 PM EST
    I'm allergic to stupidity.

    Parent
    Dear gods and goddesses of democracy and the toob (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by Ellie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    Let Obama's running-on-fumes zombie campaign implode spectacularly during May sweeps, so that all may bear witness.

    Remove all that is propping up this illusion that he is The One, which persists though he has not had a significant win for months, unless one counts going from inspiring to mediocre to tedious to downright annoying as a victory.

    Let it be apparent that it was the candidate's own weaknesses in his credentials, record, temperament and judgment that ended his run.

    Remove all doubt that extraneous forces sabotaged his "destiny", particularly the outrageous argument that his rival didn't take a dive (like she was supposed to), that voters he insulted and robbed of franchise were too stupid or bigoted by withholding their support, and that being required to show affirmatively that he could do the job and do the work.

    Let it be known that he was afforded every advantage and burned through it like an oxyacetaline torch bouncing off piles of oily rags into a heaping mound of greasy money.

    Remove utterly every possible future temptation to risk the future and integrity of the party on an empty mascot that destroys it to pander to ruthless political enemies who flatter him, and works harder to eliminate voters who didn't support him than honestly win them over.

    And please, use this time to stop hobbling the only capable and deserving candidate remaining with false new burdens and handicaps. Stop this foolish exercise of self destruction to eliminate her impressive showing by rewriting her score with math and bizarre translations of political arcana from the Nu Blogger Kidz Roolz and sputters of primary primacy from irrelevant media kingmakers.

    It's pointless to ask that the egregious sexism be dialed back ... but not keeping it blowing full force at eleven ALL THE TIME would be good.

    Thanks, pantheon.

    I would also like a new bike.

    I gather... (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:48:35 PM EST
    that you've given up all hope for a pony.

    Parent
    Amen. (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by Joan in VA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:06:51 PM EST
    Now, that is a great Beltane wish! (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by jawbone on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:12:42 PM EST
    On Beltane (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:24:38 PM EST
    from this blog to the Goddess's ears. And I hope you get your bike. Blessed Be.

    Parent
    Oh yeah.... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:46:55 PM EST
    Happy Beltane.

    Totally forgot...

    Parent

    It's raining here in NYC (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:55:23 PM EST
    So I lit some candles earlier, had a quiet dinner with my family. Hopefully this weekend will be drier and we can lite a fire outside.

    Parent
    Indeed! (none / 0) (#54)
    by Leisa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:28:11 PM EST
    more on CNN about the spread (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by DandyTIger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:50:18 PM EST
    David Gergen continues to look amazed at the turn around. He mentioned that the current polls showing Clinton with a probable win by 5 in Indiana and Obama with a likely win by less than 10 in NC. He mentioned a couple of things about that. One was that the numbers in NC continue to narrow and if Clinton wins NC that would be a massive change. And even with a narrow victory (which Obama has to have) if we continue to see White flight, that will be very worrying to the SD's. In the end he still thought Obama had the nomination, but it's sounding like a domed nomination more and more.

    It's amazing how so many people, even ones that seem to have a brain, just can't fathom how Clinton could get the nomination, even if she wins the popular vote, has the momentum, and even if everyone knows Obama can't win the general. Sort of reminds me of the build up to the Iraq war were everyone said we're going to war no matter what and to talk against that inevitability was just crazy. I think the media are like pit bulls.

    It is amazing (none / 0) (#28)
    by bjorn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:53:09 PM EST
    they are like zombies...they cannot believe there are so many stupid voters out here.  I wonder how this would be playing out if MI and FL had not been penalized.  Would it be any different?

    Parent
    check it out (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by sas on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:52:59 PM EST
    check it out gang.....and spread the word.....
    electoral maps dated May 1

    http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May01.html

    (Obama 243 - McCain 269 - Tied 26)

    and then check

    http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May01.html

    (Clinton 291- McCain 247)

    The maps are dated May 1 (none / 0) (#31)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:57:40 PM EST
    but some of the polls are like March 1st.  

    I've watched his site since about 2004, and it's pretty accurate.  However, please take it with a grain of salt.

    Parent

    i (none / 0) (#40)
    by sas on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:10:18 PM EST
    followed this site in 2004 - pretty accurate

    yes-some are older - makes me think possibly more favorable not for Hillary?

    Parent

    Right, If I remember correctly (none / 0) (#88)
    by RalphB on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:03:42 PM EST
    the March timeframe was a lower point for her.  If these polls show her ahead then, she's probably better off now.


    Parent
    an out for Obama (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by DandyTIger on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:08:08 PM EST
    Time to think about how Obama could get out of the race in a good way. It looks like he has bought enough SD's and has the anti-Clinton party bosses in his corner and can probably get the nomination if we wants to push it. But at what cost. He can't possibly win the GE. Of course they know this and are pushing the sad meme that the loser of the primary takes on all the responsibility of there is a loss in the GE. Sorry kids, won't work. If Obama losses the GE, his career is over. Clinton's is not. She runs again and '12 and gets the nomination.

    But, if Obama wants to live on to fight another day, and show some leadership and wisdom, he could bow out now. Campaign for Clinton and be a good party player. Of course if he did this and Clinton lost, he would most likely retry in '12. So good for his reputation, and he can live on to try again.

    Of course I don't see this happening. But I thought I'd put this out there. Hey, I hear this sort of thing about Clinton all the time, so I thought it was time for a change. I can hope can't I.

    no (none / 0) (#42)
    by sas on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:11:32 PM EST
    only obamans can hope
    snark

    Parent
    aaaargh!!! (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:42:27 PM EST
    Am grading papers for student conferences and am going cross-eyed with my notes to students not to fix their evidence to suit their arguments.

    They've been reading (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:50:00 PM EST
    too many right wing political blogs?

    Parent
    But how else does one write a paper?! ;-) (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:51:53 PM EST
    grrrrrr... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:54:37 PM EST
    just grrrrr.

    Margaritas will be drunk en masse--by me--after finals are over and the papers are revised.

    Parent

    Well, I have one last paper to write (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:55:56 PM EST
    before I graduate, so the time of year is familiar. . .

    Parent
    Is it due this week? (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:58:07 PM EST
    And shouldn't you be working on that rather than getting into blogosphere skirmishes, young blogger?

    Parent
    It's due in the middle of the week (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:02:45 PM EST
    and I'm a fast writer. It's the organization that takes time!.

    Parent
    Okay... (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:16:08 PM EST
    who spiked my ipod with "It's Not Easy Being Green"?!?!?

    There I was grading papers with the Twin Peaks soundtrack in my ears...and poof...green.

    Parent

    nevermind... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:39:57 PM EST
    someone snuck it into the soundtrack to Angel.

    I wonder if it was to find out if we were paying attention. That crazy Joss.

    Parent

    which version of Green? (none / 0) (#106)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:48:25 PM EST
    Kermit or Van Morrison?

    I'm very partial to the Van Morrison version.

    Parent

    Neither... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:56:41 PM EST
    Andy Hallet.

    Seems it's part of the Angel soundtrack. Most of the songs are along the lines of Twin Peaks...musical and moody.

    And then there's "It's Not Easy Being Green."

    I think it's got something to do with Joss's sick sense of humor :)

    Parent

    I was reading science papers (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:53:52 PM EST
    for a review paper I was writing and it was amazing how many published scientists also fit their evidence to their conclusion rather than the other way around.  It's common, hard not to do as a human being.

    Parent
    scientists should really know better... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by kredwyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:56:15 PM EST
    If your experiment messes up, you start over. If it messes up again, you write a paper discussing the mess up...and hope for the best.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#123)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:58:49 AM EST
    They should know better. However they get wrapped up in what they're doing like anyone else.

    Parent
    stumbled on to this... (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:45:55 PM EST
    I'm not a fan of Real Clear Politics but Renewed Wright Imbroglio Exposes Fissures in Black Voters was a very interesting article that concludes...

    In an e-mail to members of the Harlem for Obama group on Obama's official Web site, my.barackobama.com, Calderon lamented the unease and disillusionment he felt watching Obama denounce a man whose Press Club appearance Calderon found to be eloquent, intelligent and -- most of all -- truthful.

    "How much does Obama have to disavow before 'America' sees him as a viable candidate for president?" Calderon wondered to the group. "And a question for the senator himself ... How much is it worth for him to be president?"

    In an interview, Calderon said this was not to say Obama would lose his support. Perhaps, he mused, "I was idealizing the man too much."

    But his e-mail identified something else he said made him uncomfortable: "Some supporters are so focused on the importance of Sen. Obama being the Democratic nominee for president," Calderon wrote, "that they want to gloss over any controversy, with the attitude being, 'Let's get him nominated, then in office, and after that we'll deal with the issue of race.'"

    Indeed, "There's a lot of winking going on in the Obama campaign," said Glenn Loury, a Brown University economist who writes frequently about race.

    Loury supports Clinton because, he said, Obama's candidacy "is a place where the racial contract is being negotiated and renegotiated," and he simply doesn't want to entrust Obama with that power.



    This May Be Of Interes (none / 0) (#1)
    by MO Blue on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:07:55 PM EST
    Courtesy of MyDD

    Obama's Spreadsheet  

    Indiana  
Obama   53
Clinton 46
    North Carolina 
Obama 53
Clinton 45

    Going further, Obama's spreadsheet forecast that the deficit against Clinton in WV will be 12%, in KY it will be 14%, and that Obama will win OR by 5%, MT by 9% and SD by 15%, concluding with Clinton winning PR by 9%.



    thanks for the link (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:28:04 PM EST
    but did you see the comments? the new Obama talking point seems to be "that the expectations have been reset" in IN & NC! It seems that even if Hillary blows Obama out in IN & keeps him to single digits in NC then it is a win for Obama! The world has truly gone mad.

    Parent
    this was being said all day (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by bjorn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:33:55 PM EST
    on MSNBC...it is over according to them no matter what, UNLESS MAYBE if he loses Oregon.  

    Parent
    reason 3467 (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:39:18 PM EST
    why I don't watch MSNBC anymore.

    Parent
    Only if he loses Oregon? (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:58:34 PM EST
    Doesn't getting caught with a dead girl or a live boy mean anything anymore? ;->

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#89)
    by bjorn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:04:18 PM EST
    Oregon (none / 0) (#19)
    by facta non verba on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:44:08 PM EST
    seems to be his firewall now. It is almost as if they are conceding IN, hoping eke out a win in NC, writing off WV and KY.

    new ad for Clinton in North Carolina:

    New Ad in North Carolina

    It features Mike Easley.

    Parent

    great ad (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:53:15 PM EST
    I especially like the word "resilient" to describe her.  Plus, Mike Easley, as well as being popular with Dems., looks & sounds exactly like every guy in NC that I know -- they relate to him.  

    Parent
    heh, did you notice this at the link? (none / 0) (#24)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:49:08 PM EST
    It should be noted that unlike Pennsylvania where the Obama campaign outspent Clinton nearly 3:1, in North Carolina the Clinton campaign is about even in its ad spend. So keep those contributions coming!

    Wonder how Obama's money train is doing . . . ?

    Parent

    It will be A LOT worse for BO in Kentucky n/t (none / 0) (#102)
    by Eleanor A on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:35:53 PM EST
    SUSA: Clinton Behind 44-50 in Oregon (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dan the Man on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:13:46 PM EST
    Link for Internals.

    Funny thing about the internals - it seems like there are no black people in Oregon!  That should make for an interesting contest...

    But Hillary has gained it says (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:17:16 PM EST
    In a Democratic Primary in Oregon today, 05/01/08, three weeks till votes are counted, Barack Obama edges Hillary Clinton 50% to 44%, according to a  Compared to an identical SurveyUSA tracking poll released 3 weeks ago, Obama is down 2, Clinton is up 2. Obama had led by 10, now leads by 6 -- small movement to be sure, and within the survey's margin of sampling error, but movement away from Obama and to Clinton nonetheless. Among voters younger than Obama, Obama leads by 15. Among voters older than McCain, Clinton leads by 15. The Gender Gap has shrunk from 37 points to 22 points. Among females, Clinton had led by 7, now by 4. Among males, Obama had led by 30, now by 18. Clinton leads narrowly among voters focused on the Economy and on Health Care. Obama leads among voters focused on Iraq.
     


    Parent
    Voters older than McCain? (none / 0) (#6)
    by Arjun on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:19:59 PM EST
    People live that long...?

    Parent
    Good One! (none / 0) (#17)
    by mmc9431 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:41:59 PM EST
    not McCain (none / 0) (#97)
    by djcny on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:16:39 PM EST
    This is one of the many reasons that I don't believe McCain will win in November no matter who runs against him.  I don't think he does very well in debates, reads off a Teleprompter for most of his speeches, has flip flopped on key issues and makes many factual errors. No one notices now because we're not really focusing in on his campaign and stump speeches, but later people will begin to realize that he's not the man he was 8 yrs ago. This is not even mentioning that he's a republican and we're all coming off 8 years of a republican nightmare.  I think people are overestimating McCain's electability. The bottom line is that the presidency is the Dems to lose, either one of them...although I'm a major Hillary supporter and I know she'd be the best choice BY FAR.

    Parent
    It's not McCain (none / 0) (#98)
    by DJ on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:25:23 PM EST
    although general opinion of him is more favorable than bush (ex: immigration)  It's the republican attack machine.  Hey they made Bush 2nd term happen for goodness sakes.  They made HIM look good.

    Parent
    McCain (none / 0) (#121)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:46:12 AM EST
    is the real reason Hillary can't change the narrative that Obama is inevitable.

    Even a flawed Dem is viewed as more likely to win than McCain.

    So what's to lose by giving him the nomination?

    sigh

    Parent

    they've barely (none / 0) (#22)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:46:26 PM EST
    started campaigning in OR yet. Will be full gear after Tuesday

    Parent
    Bill just did a sweep in Oregon (none / 0) (#25)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:50:15 PM EST
    wonder if that also helped the male vote?

    Parent
    the internals clearly... (none / 0) (#32)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:59:59 PM EST
    do not follow what we've seen elsewhere...


    Segment              Obama    Clinton
    ------------------- --------- ---------
    Female...................................45........49
    #
    Hispanic..................................45........55
    #
    Asian.......................................52........40
    #
    Reg Attend Church...............49........45

    just doesn't track...

    Parent

    Oregon is odd (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:05:16 PM EST
    Lots of Creative Class escapees from California.  Don't mean to diss anyone but lots of liberals who left California cause, you know it was getting a bit, what shall I say, diverse and they wanted to protect their little ones.  

    (hiding for cover)

    Parent

    The migration (none / 0) (#70)
    by facta non verba on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:49:02 PM EST
    by Californians to OR, WA and NV is really more about affordable housing. Better schools too and the quality of life, that sort of thing.

    Parent
    maybe by the lower income (none / 0) (#72)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:51:06 PM EST
    but higher income creative class types, are running away from the "diversity", in my opinion.  They use all kinds of cover ups, but there is an unspoken discomfort with California becoming a state where whites are a minority.  

    Parent
    Although we Oregonians insist we (none / 0) (#91)
    by caseyOR on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:06:20 PM EST
    do not like Californians who come here and stay, many have done just that. Most have settled in southern and central Oregon, not in the Portland metro area. Many moved here because their money bought a much bigger house. We also have many retirees from our southern neighbors.

    Southern and central Oregon are both pretty red. Most dems are in Portland metro area and the Willamette Valley (Corvallis, Eugene). And some in Bend. Most AAs are in Portland metro area and AAs are less than 2% of total population.

    We have a big democratic senate primary race. That could bring out even more dems that usual. We are pretty excited about having our primary count (back off Joe Andrew). Ballots go out in the mail tomorrow and must be returned by 8 pm on May 20.

    Parent

    I was just about to post this. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by MaryGM on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:17:55 PM EST
    It's really interesting that Obama is just bleeding male support.  First in PA, then IN, now Oregon.

    Parent
    I'm not surprised, and I'll tell you why (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:27:18 PM EST
    It is no secret -- as the sexism in this campaign has shown -- that some men will not vote for a woman for President. Well, after getting to "know" Obama, and his pastor of 20 years, and getting to know Hillary, I think a lot of those men whose initial support of Obama was based (even subconsciously) on his gender, are seeing the light. She is more qualified, she is smarter, she is more prepared -- regardless of her being a woman.  She is winning them over. Just my 2 cents, but I think I'm right about this.

    Parent
    You are right. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by DJ on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:28:27 PM EST
    I am excited by what this is doing in educating some men.  My father is a hardcore republican.  HATED the Clintons.  He has new found respect for Hillary.  Thinks she is tough and smart.  Wish he would vote for her.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#119)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:11:11 AM EST
    Hillary has earned the respect.

    Parent
    Minimal changes (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:28:15 PM EST
    But if Obama is looking really week, there's always the outside chance of momentum.

    Parent
    AAs less than 2% of Oregon population (none / 0) (#74)
    by caseyOR on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:52:59 PM EST
    Latinos are 9% and Asians are about 3.5%.

    Parent
    joe andrew (none / 0) (#3)
    by boredmpa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:16:20 PM EST
    Apparently a lawyer with Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP, which lobbies in DC.  He also started the Blue Fund, which only invests in businesses that donate to "progressive" candidates.

    Now, I don't know about you, but on the face of things those two connections smell bad.  The law/lobbyist industry is already known for getting bunches of partners to donate, and now here comes joe andrew with a mutual fund that only donates to companies that assist progressives.  

    So how will this payola work?  You go to SN & R or Joe for lobbying, knowing that they're connected to Blue Fund and can make suggestions, and presto blue fund helps pressure and grease the wheels at the right time.  And it doesn't even have to be obvious, because another company could make the donation.

    And no I'm not paranoid, it's just a scenario--an obvious one.  Lobbyists starting mutual funds (and getting more money in the process) isn't my preferred way to run a democracy.  

    Defection of longtime superdelegate jolts Clinton (none / 0) (#7)
    by nellre on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:23:09 PM EST
    Yahoo news (via AP)  headline featured all day.

    So, tell me, was Clinton jolted?

    Nothing in the article supports the jolt theory.
    This sort of lie proves we don't have a free press. It's bought and paid for... by bad people.

    Parent

    I agree! (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Leisa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:41:23 PM EST
    I have so many suspicions when Obama has full page ads everyday in a paper that endorses him.  That alone makes me ponder many things...

    Parent
    Wish I could rate this comment a 5 about 50x - n/t (none / 0) (#103)
    by Eleanor A on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:39:11 PM EST
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#126)
    by Leisa on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:11:05 AM EST
    The picture I saw with that headline (none / 0) (#52)
    by Joan in VA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:25:14 PM EST
    was of her laughing and obviously having a good time. Huh???

    Parent
    So much for the environment (none / 0) (#8)
    by mmc9431 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:25:04 PM EST
    EPA political appointees force out top Midwest regulator.

    Headline at TP site. Even at this late stage this administration is still trampling on us. Can't Congress stop this. At a 72% disapproval rate what are they worried about. The American public is so disgusted with Bush, impeachment would thrill them. There are millions in this country that would pay to see him in prison orange.

    Sitting here in Montana in the midst of a (none / 0) (#14)
    by athyrio on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:34:54 PM EST
    snow storm, having gone all day without electricity (no fun), got our power back and now no tv as the skies are too cloudy for reception I guess....Never a dull moment in paradise lol.....Hope the power holds all night as I hate the generator going at night....:-)....Have not much feel for how Mt will shake out in the primary but we can start early voting May 5th...In Mt. you dont ever register a party affliation, you just show up and request either the republican or democratic ballet...Hope you all have a nice night....

    well, at least you (none / 0) (#18)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:42:04 PM EST
    have pretty scenery -- and tomorrow has to be better, right? bundle up and take care.

    Parent
    hope (none / 0) (#30)
    by sas on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:57:38 PM EST
    you have a good night

    rest easy, keep warm

    Parent

    Stay warm! (none / 0) (#67)
    by Leisa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:44:58 PM EST
    I have family in Great Falls, Bozeman and Ennis.

    You live in a beautiful state!  

    Parent

    Snow storm? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:59:23 PM EST
    Years ago I read a autobiographical account of a pioneer woman in Wyoming I thin, and she said:  "up here there are two seasons, winter and July".  

    Parent
    old wyoming saying: (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by english teacher on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:28:37 AM EST
    "if summer falls on a weekend, let's have a picnic"

    Parent
    Forgot- heard Ed Schultz (who I am losing- (none / 0) (#15)
    by kenosharick on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:35:22 PM EST
    respect for) as well today.  Caller after caller were insisting that the media is in the bag for Clinton, and that she has never been vetted. They are saying the media refuses to investigate her because there are all sorts of scandals they are covering up for her. Ed just went along with the insanity.

    those callers (none / 0) (#85)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:00:09 PM EST
    feel like they are well scripted.  It's really astonishing.  

    Parent
    the next time... (none / 0) (#20)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 09:44:12 PM EST
    someone wants to discuss how this site is slanted for Hillary, remember this - Peter Dreier: Sydney Blumenthal Uses Former Right-Wing Foes to Attack Obama

    and if the story doesn't make you rise up in anger at the lengths these people will go to split the party, check out the comments...

    This is a genial place by any comparison

    I certainly don't endorse the idea... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Marco21 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:07:34 PM EST
    of using right wingers for anything, let alone using their screeds and such to attack a Democrat, but Drier's piece veers way off base. Does he really think the LA Times, the Chicago Sun Times, etc. are gunning for Obama?

    The following part of the article is hysterical:

    "Presidential politics can get down and dirty, and Blumenthal is a master at the game. Some Obama supporters might even wish that his campaign would resort to similar tactics. If it did, there would be no shortage of anti-Hillary screeds by the "vast right-wing conspiracy" activists and writers, such as surfacing the photo of Rev. Jeremiah Wright with Bill Clinton at a prayer breakfast at the White House in 1998, invited by the president in the midst of his Lewinsky scandal."

    Um, Obama's camp floated that photo, Pete. Get real, man.

    Parent

    well the article... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:16:55 PM EST
    was completely unhinged...Blumenthal is totally identified with Hillary, he went to college with her didn't he? He's been by her side for years.

    He's been e-mailing stuff to all of the media guys throughout the campaign just like the media onslaught from the Obama campaign and they have been as equally negative as Clinton's campaign.

    Curiously the article:

    • suggests that it is Blumenthal and only Blumenthal who has been negative
    • suggests that the Obama campaign is pure as the driven snow
    • lists virtually every problematic association in Obama's past and simultaneously acknowledges and dismisses them as if the author had the credibility to dismiss them for everyone

    But the comments...wow...seriously deranged commenting going on at HuffPo

    Parent
    HuffPo = RovePo... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Leisa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:55:51 PM EST
    I can read some articles posted there lately, but I avoid the comments, for if I venture there, I begin to think that the RovePo has turned into the RavingLunaticPo.

    Just my thoughts...

    Parent

    Well, I typically don't look at the comments... (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by white n az on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:51:45 PM EST
    at HuffPo so I was shocked.

    The comments there make the Great Orange Cheeto look tame.

    They used to say that Southern California was like a bowl of granola...take away the raisins and coconut and all you got left is nuts and flakes...then I wandered into the comments at HuffPo.

    Parent

    Yes! Thanks (none / 0) (#125)
    by Leisa on Sat May 03, 2008 at 01:08:54 AM EST
    re: Wright photo (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:36:37 PM EST
    I had an Obama follower saying today that she would lose in the GE and one of the things she would be attacked with was their relationship with Wright and there's even a photo to prove it, lol!~

    I took my dog for a walk vs responding.

    It was actually a forum that I had participated in for years (mostly non-political) and the person was someone I knew. I left a couple months ago after he started attacking and trying to pick fights with suspected Clinton supporters including me. I went back just yesterday, but have changed my sig line to "Nader/Gonzalez '08 ". Seems to be working. The O followers are leaving me alone and I can participate without getting jumped on  ;)

    Parent

    I didn't see email addies that support his points (none / 0) (#49)
    by jawbone on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:23:28 PM EST
    Did I miss somethingA? I did skim some of the article.

    I also don't like using rightwing sites, but the only source he shows have the Chicago newspapers. Huh?

    Parent

    links? proof? (none / 0) (#57)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:30:22 PM EST
    they don't need no stikin' links -- you take it all on faith in Obamaland --if it is written, it is true. Here, have some more kool-aid.

    Parent
    I exchanged more emails with my (none / 0) (#33)
    by MarkL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST
    friend the Obama-supporting poli-sci professor.
    He sent me a link to a Robert Scheer article on Hillary and the comment about "obliterating" Iran.
    He found that far worse than McCain's "bomb bomb Iran" comment, and was totally unresponsive when I pointed out that Hillary, unlike McCain or even Obama, is taking preemptive war off the table.
    One prediction he made is that experts in the foreign policy area are going to come down hard on Hillary for this.

    We'll see.

    Chatting on another forum with a guy (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:10:28 PM EST
    from Israel about this. He (they) didn't think the comment was irresponsible or off base. They understood what she was saying. I asked if he had heard about the umbrella strategy for the M.E. and posted the KO transcript. His response was

    "I agree with every word."

    Granted, just one person's opinion, but he's there and involved. I'm always interested in his perspective as he's pretty level when he lets us know what's going on there.

    Parent

    This guy is from Iran, but naturalized. (none / 0) (#45)
    by MarkL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:12:44 PM EST
    He was saying that deterrent threats are not believed to be effective against smaller countries (or something like that) by the experts.
    I'm sure he knows something about the subject. I"m skeptical though.


    Parent
    Interesting. (none / 0) (#51)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:25:09 PM EST
    funny we each had a 'side', lol!~

    this was another part of the conversation. There was a OFB involved and I had said something to the Israel guy about his rather level response (in the midst of Obama-influenced responses by the other guy)

    "Living in this region, I have a lot of experience with threats and counter-threats made by leaders. It's all part of the game, and usually meant to set borders and ensure stability."

    That was how I saw Clinton's words. Boundaries. I really don't think anyone wants to set off the total destruction of their country.

    Parent

    what does OFB stand for? (none / 0) (#56)
    by MarkL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:30:16 PM EST
    I have a very x-rated idea, which is undoubtedly not correct.

    Parent
    Obama Fan Base. (none / 0) (#58)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:34:01 PM EST
    nothing x rated.

    Parent
    So if they are, what are they waiting for? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Joan in VA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:18:11 PM EST
    Did you ask him that? I thought the word was a bit harsh but the idea is nothing unreasonable or even new. Gotta love those smartypants Obama supporters!

    Parent
    His main point was to argue that since (none / 0) (#55)
    by MarkL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:29:26 PM EST
    Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program, there is no need for this kind of threat.
    I don't agree with either the premise or the conclusion. IN fact, one of the lessons of Iraq is that there is uncertainty among neighboring, rival nations about the state of their respective weapons programs. If other countries believe Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, that is destabilizing, in and of itself. Clinton's proposal addresses the concerns of these countries quite well, IMO.

    Parent
    Obama does Letterman Top 10, Hillary does (none / 0) (#34)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:02:34 PM EST
    Dateline tonight.

    I thought she was doing Nightline? (none / 0) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:04:55 PM EST
    Is she doing both?

    Parent
    OOPS! You're right!!! (none / 0) (#43)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:11:33 PM EST
    I have a bad habit of confusing those! Thanks for the save!!!

    Parent
    I didn't even know Nightline was still on! (none / 0) (#48)
    by Joan in VA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:19:30 PM EST
    I don't watch much network tv obvs.

    Parent
    Ted (none / 0) (#60)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:35:47 PM EST
    Koppel(sp) isn't there anymore and it's all pretty vanilla, but yep, still on.

    Parent
    I like yours better! (none / 0) (#63)
    by angie on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:40:35 PM EST
    I admit, I couldn't even think of a PG meaning, much less an X-rated one, though.

    I've been puzzled (none / 0) (#92)
    by Jane in CA on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:08:55 PM EST
    by many of the acronyms used on this site, such as W.O.R.M, N/T and, most recently, OFB.

    I've learned just to go to www.urbandictionary.com and do a search for the acronym I'm not familiar with. Urban Dictionary hasn't let me down yet -- it even explained OFB.

    Parent

    To know him is to love him! (none / 0) (#64)
    by MarkL on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:41:18 PM EST


    Made the mistake (none / 0) (#81)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 10:56:21 PM EST
    of going to one of the O'Blogs to read about Hillary on O'Reily.  
    One of the aspects of the interview I loved yesterday, is her basically in her quick way, putting O'Reiley and his ilk in their place about taxes.  If you saw it you know what I mean.  She said something to the effect, that 'bless their hearts the rich can stand to be taxed what they were taxed in the 90's".  I think she totally nailed him in that reparte.  

    Well, over at Democratic Underground, they took it as her sort of siding with the wealthy.  The comments are actually a remarkable study in what I would call low information on nuance, politics, history and debate.  
    So here is the link and enjoy the comments of the infantile

    Did Obama just bomb on Letterman? (none / 0) (#86)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:00:55 PM EST
    Is it even possible to bomb giving the Top 10 list on David Letterman?  Because I think Obama just did that, somehow.

    Preview please..we are Pacific here (none / 0) (#93)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:09:45 PM EST
    See the latest thread for the list (none / 0) (#100)
    by diplomatic on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:34:00 PM EST
    He tanked it. n/t (none / 0) (#108)
    by misspeach2008 on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:52:34 PM EST
    Ok, so late tv tonight is Letterman and Nightline? (none / 0) (#90)
    by Jeralyn on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:05:13 PM EST
    What time does the top ten list come on? (how many minutes into it?) It's on the same time as Nightline here.

    DVR and Tivo time (none / 0) (#94)
    by Stellaaa on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:10:27 PM EST
    Sunday morning is busy as well.

    Parent
    Letterman (none / 0) (#95)
    by themomcat on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:14:32 PM EST
    Usually the top 10 airs around midnight after the monologue and 15 minutes of commercials.

    Parent
    It works out that you can watch the full (none / 0) (#101)
    by nycstray on Thu May 01, 2008 at 11:34:12 PM EST
    Hillary interview and still hit Letterman for Obama.

    Parent
    Did I see Colorado... (none / 0) (#111)
    by white n az on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:20:18 AM EST
    listed as a possible win state for Obama?

    Denver Post Editorial

    The company Obama keeps

    By The Denver Post
    Article Last Updated: 04/30/2008 08:27:57 PM MDT

    Just six weeks ago, Sen. Barack Obama said he could no more disown his former pastor than he could disown his own white grandmother.

    Until, of course, he did.

    I've been saying that disowning Wright was a bad idea, an act of cowardice and not the courageous act of someone with presidential stuff.

    Clearly I'm not the only one that sees the problem here.

    This has been apparent (none / 0) (#113)
    by RalphB on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:43:09 AM EST
    from the very beginning of this mess to lots of people.  I'm glad it's finally spreading now.


    Parent
    Electability problem? (none / 0) (#114)
    by kc on Fri May 02, 2008 at 12:50:12 AM EST


    The DC Madam predicted she would be (none / 0) (#115)
    by thereyougo on Fri May 02, 2008 at 01:23:31 AM EST
    "suicided"one of her clients possibly was Dick Cheney.

    Listen to the radio program she predicted her demise would not be self inflicted.

    http://tinyurl.com/69583h

    You never freakin' now..... (none / 0) (#122)
    by kdog on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:16:58 AM EST
    I, like my boy Rev. Wright, put nothing passed our government....n-o-t-h-i-n-g.

    It wouldn't be the first CIA suicide job....but it may be the pettiest CIA suicide job.

    Parent

    I just the Zogby Poll in NC (none / 0) (#116)
    by facta non verba on Fri May 02, 2008 at 02:58:22 AM EST
    it has Obama leading 50 to 34. Odd the 16 point spread when everyone else has the race quite tight. In Indiana, Zogby had the race tied.

    How accurate has Zogby been?

    Not very (none / 0) (#117)
    by themomcat on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:04:02 AM EST
    Zogby is a Republican and his polls have been some what inaccurate. SUSA seems to be more on the money. Sorry, I don't have their link.

    Parent
    Zogby (none / 0) (#120)
    by AnninCA on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:14:07 AM EST
    hit PA on the nose.

    Parent
    That's about it (none / 0) (#124)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 05:33:26 PM EST
    And it was pure luck.

    Parent
    Wright and the Media (none / 0) (#118)
    by bison on Fri May 02, 2008 at 03:18:07 AM EST
    Check this out: The Daily Show is  show poking  fun at the obsession that MSM is  having with the Rev. Wright controversy.

    Festival of Wright
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=167429&title=festival-of-wrights

    Spiritual Advisor
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=167430&title=spiritual-advisor&to=2