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Profile of Obama's Politics While In Chicago

The New York Times (tomorrow's paper, available now) has a 7 page profile on how Barack Obama forged coalitions in Illinois:

The secret of his transformation — which has brought him to the brink of claiming the Democratic presidential nomination — can be described as the politics of maximum unity: He moved from his leftist Hyde Park base to more centrist circles; he forged early alliances with the good-government reform crowd only to be later embraced by the city’s all-powerful Democratic bosses; he railed against pork-barrel politics but engaged in it when needed; and he empathized with the views of his Palestinian friends before adroitly courting the city’s politically potent Jewish community.

To broaden his appeal to African-Americans, Mr. Obama had to assiduously court older black leaders entrenched in Chicago’s ward politics before selling himself as a young, multicultural bridge to the wider political world.

I have no use for the kind of unity that trumps taking a position on issues based on one's beliefs in favor of a taking a position based on who it will appeal to and then not sticking to it.

This is why it's so hard to figure out where Obama really stands on issues, from crime issues (here and here) to gun rights. He changes, depending on his audience and which voters he needs to appease or win over at the time. As I often write, where's Obama? Here, there and everywhere.

More from the Times:

Others see his deft movements as a politician shifting positions and alliances for strategic advantage, leaving some disappointed and baffled about where he really stands.

“He has a pattern of forming relationships with various communities and as he takes his next step up, kind of distancing himself from them and then positioning himself as the bridge,” said Ali Abunimah, a Palestinian-American author and co-founder of the online publication Electronic Intifada, who became acquainted with Mr. Obama in Chicago.

Exactly. He dumped his Palestinian friends like Rashid Khalidi when he decided to go after the Jewish vote. (See here, here and here.) If I were a Palestinian, I'd be upset too. If I were a strong Israel supporter, I'd be nervous. See the Times article on pages 5 and 6, about how once he got introduced to Chicago's billionaire Crown family and sought its campaign contributions, he moved towards supporting Israel. Khalidi now says:

Mr. Khalidi, who now teaches at Columbia University, said, “I’m unhappy about the positions he’s taken, but I can’t say I’m terribly disappointed.” He added: “People think he’s a saint. He’s not. He’s a politician.

Then there's his constant refrain about how things he believes may not worth expending the political capital on to change: like medical marijuana and mandatory minimums.

Back to the Times' article:

Even moments that supporters see as his boldest are tempered by his political caution. The forceful speech he delivered in 2002 against the impending Iraq invasion — a speech that has helped define him on the national stage — was threaded with an unusual mantra for a 1960s style antiwar rally: “I’m not opposed to all wars.” It was a refrain Mr. Obama had tested on his political advisers, and it was a display of his ability to speak to the audience before him while keeping in mind the broader audience to come.

Another group disappointed in Obama's shifting stances:

On the campaign trail, Mr. Obama hewed closely to liberal orthodoxy, positions that have become controversial in the presidential race. A candidate questionnaire from one liberal group, for instance, detailed his views on hot-button issues like the death penalty (opposed) and a ban on handguns (in favor).

Today, Mr. Obama espouses more centrist views and says a campaign aide had incorrectly characterized his views on those issues — a shift that does not sit well with some in the group, the Independent Voters of Illinois Independent Precinct Organization.

“We certainly thought those were his positions,” said David Igasaki, the group’s state chairman, who noted Mr. Obama had also interviewed with the group. “We understand that people change their views. But it sort of bothers me that he doesn’t acknowledge that. He tries to say that was never his view.”

Obama against the death penalty? Hardly. He's against executing the innocent. Who isn't? There's something for everyone in this article. It covers Ayers, Rezko, Mayor Daley and lots more. I'll probably be coming back to it later.

Comments closed.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Obama is (5.00 / 11) (#1)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:37:18 PM EST
    apparently a worse flip-flopper than John Kerry, and look what happened to him in 2004.

    The GOP is going to have a field day.

    "She will do anything to get elected. " (5.00 / 10) (#3)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:40:53 PM EST
    Now tell me who does this apply to?  

    Parent
    Are you calling him a woman? (5.00 / 16) (#34)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:06:49 PM EST
    I remember way back when the media actually tried to do its job and the AP ran a story saying Obama could have a pretty good argument with himself on myriad positions.

    When Clinton quoted this during the debate, she got booed (of course) but I can't be the only person with half a brain who finds it troubling that Obama is this close to the nomination and has absolutely no record of taking a stand on anything except running for the nomination.  Name one vote, one position, he has taken where he got political heat for doing so.  It cannot be done.

    This is the question we should be seriously looking at: Should Clinton not win the nomination (which, again, I think she has a good shot), then she will go back to the senate and keep fighting the good fight.  If (when!) Obama loses the nomination, do any of us really see him doing more than phoning in the rest of his term, then going to another trophy appointment on some corporate board and hitting the speaking circuit?

    Doesn't it bother anyone that, if Obama doesn't get the nomination, he basically goes back to...nothing?

    Parent

    Him a woman? (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:12:07 PM EST
    No, he does not have moxie.  

    Parent
    I love the word ... (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Robot Porter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:28:49 PM EST
    "moxie."

    Parent
    But think of all the time he can spend with his (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:31:39 PM EST
    family and save michelle conjuring up faux tears about missing time spent with his girls.

    Parent
    Answer (5.00 / 4) (#169)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:37:20 PM EST
    Are you calling him a woman?

    Given that he's on both sides of every issue, if we did deeper, we may find that he's a hermaphrodite! ....kidding...

    ....I hope this article includes something about the fact that he criticized Jimmy Carter for talking to Hamas, while his own campaign advisor was talking to Hamas....

    Parent

    Hey, it bothers me right now because (5.00 / 9) (#177)
    by chancellor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:40:46 PM EST
    I'm one of his constituents. I have never, repeat never, received a single response from Obama to the emails I've sent him on various issue positions. Durbin always sends me back either a snail mail or email position letter, as does my rep., Melissa Bean. Obama has been nothing more than a huge waste of taxpayer money, IMO. If this is how he treats me--and I'm a constituent--how responsive do you think he'll be if he gets into office? Sorry for those of you who hold out hope, but this man truly is an empty suit.

    Parent
    Common Rove technique (5.00 / 7) (#132)
    by dianem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:04:35 PM EST
    Attack your opponent for doing something, then do it yourself. If your opponent comments on it, you can accuse them of being hypocritical and lying to distract the public from their own problems. The opponent tends to not attack, though, because they know that once they are marked as the transgressor it is very hard to turn it around. This doesn't work backwards, by the way. If the accused can immediately point to evidence that the accuser did something in the past similar to what they are accusing them of doing, then the hypocrisy label falls on the accuser.

    Parent
    Nearly everything he said (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:30:29 PM EST
    was really about himself.

    Parent
    Didn't I Read On One Of These Threads That (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:43:15 PM EST
    the GOP has a 1000 page dossier on obama already?
    Fasten your seatbelts obamatrons...It's gonna be a bumpy ride!

    Parent
    yep, 1000 pages on his past (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by karen for Clinton on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:53:21 PM EST
    The Hamas/Malley article mentions this:

    "The Republican National Committee has amassed a 1,000-page dossier on Mr Obama, with researchers spending weeks in Chicago seeking fresh material.

    Parent

    Hilarious (1.00 / 1) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:47 PM EST
    Are you suggesting that they have less pages on Hillary, or is it that they just do not see her as a threat.

    There is a good argument, that is if you believe that Hillary is still a viable contender, that the GOP is more terrified of Obama than Hillary because they have not sent out the attack dogs on her. You can be sure that the attack on Hillary will be just as vicious if she does get the nomination.

    IMO, focusing on what the GOP is doing or going to do is not a good argument for either nominee.

    Parent

    It's all been done (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:04:01 PM EST
    with Hillary.  And with her, what you see is what you get.  She's upfront about her positions.

    Obama is fresh meat.  And he's got more in his background that hasn't come out.  Thi is not going to be like the primary, which was mild compared to past contests.

    If he gets it, you guys aren't going to be able to use the same tactics and cries of foul.  The GOP loves the mud.  

    Parent

    That Is The Talking Point (3.00 / 2) (#42)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    For sure. But I do not believe that she will be any better off in the coming storm than Obama. The fact that the press loathes her is what will make things particularly nasty. And the public has zero memory in general. Everything is new, even if it is rehashed.

    Besides, I was responding to the point that there is 1000 pages on Obama. Do you think that compares to the number of pages on Hillary?

    And why do you think that they are going after Obama and not Hillary? The only answers I can imagine is  that either they see the nomination contest as over, or that Obama is a bigger threat.  

    Parent

    I actually agree with you (5.00 / 9) (#48)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:17:39 PM EST
    that they've certainly got lots of crap dug up on her, too.  Where you lose me is when you say that anyone will care.  The press are so rabid about anything that paints Clinton in a bad light that it almost cancels itself out.

    And, yes, I agree that the media is completely against her.  The fact that she is still standing, that she is still a viable candidate, tells me a lot more about her character than Obama's 57 state strategy through the Great Lakes of Oregon.

    Parent

    So Is The Sexism (1.00 / 1) (#70)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:27:52 PM EST
    And Misogyny that so many here have been arguing as more virulent than the racism, going to all of a sudden lessen because instead of Obama supporters mouthing it we will have the GOP spewing?

    I think that the attacks against both will be equally as nasty and harsh. The media will protect Obama more than Hillary imo, but in either case I really think that the public is fed up with the GOP and their nastiness, warmongering and poor economic policies.

    Parent

    You think wrong. (5.00 / 7) (#81)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:34:38 PM EST
    I really think that the public is fed up with the GOP and their nastiness, warmongering and poor economic policies.

    People are fed up with Bush, not all republicans.  As I said yesterday, congressional approval is poor, disgustingly so.  Dems aren't making many friends either.

    McCain will soothe voters and promise to be different.  And since he's a straight-talking maverick and media darling, he'll be formidable.

    Parent

    Not Wrong (1.00 / 1) (#103)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:45:00 PM EST
    But we disagree. imo, McCain wears BushCo bling around his neck in lengths that would make Isadora Duncan jealous.

    Parent
    Media darling. (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:04:54 PM EST
    Let's see if that changes if he's the nominee.

    I really hope he isn't.  Hillary is the better candidate.  You don't have to agree, but it doesn't change the fact.

    Obama is being touted because he can supposedly bring more voters into the party.  He'll also lose some long-time dem voters, but as usual, this is about $$$$$$, too.

    Not qualifications.  Money.

    Think about that.  It makes me angry.  You?

    Parent

    A Fact? (1.00 / 1) (#143)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:13:57 PM EST
    How is your opinion a fact? My opinion is that the two are about the same, and I voted for Hillary, but that is my opinion not a fact.

    When you come up with the standardized test to evaluate which life experience make for a more qualified POTUS, let me know, otherwise it is just shilling.

    I do not think either candidate would be anywhere without big corporate money behind them, and that is a huge problem in US politics. Yes, that makes me angry.

    Parent

    Let's meet back here (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:22:07 PM EST
    in November and see.  That's the only way we'll know, right?

    Parent
    Sorry squeaky, but I find it awfully hard to (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:39:30 PM EST
    believe you voted for Hillary, based on your comments.  I might be wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.

    Parent
    Well, yes. (none / 0) (#146)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:18:24 PM EST
    I do not think either candidate would be anywhere without big corporate money behind them, and that is a huge problem in US politics. Yes, that makes me angry.

    Hillary's supposedly out of money.

    Parent

    OK But (none / 0) (#150)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:21:15 PM EST
    I do not get your point. Does that make her less in the pocket of donors than Obama?  

    Parent
    It seems to right now. (none / 0) (#161)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:29:08 PM EST
    BTW, you never answered my other question.  Does the candidate with the most money (and the most media "support") win?

    Media support can be diminished if voters disregard the "message" and go to the polls.

    It's ironic that the GOTV campaign is superceded by declarations of victory at this point.

    What a country.

    Parent

    Media support is about (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:24:57 PM EST
    to turn as the polls keep showing that Hillary is stil considered a contender in spite of their non-stop chattering.

    The boys in the big booth are going to sit up and take notice that nobody is apparently watching or caring about those shows.  :)

    Parent

    Other Question (none / 0) (#230)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:35:49 PM EST
     
    Does the candidate with the most money (and the most media "support") win?

    Certainly not always, but tons of money does not hurt. Media support is huge though. Most people voters are plugged in to it. If a candidate neck and neck positive media (or negative) makes a big difference, imo.

    So far McCain is also a media darling. I do not imagine that changing either.

    Parent

    the big difference is (5.00 / 11) (#88)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:38:51 PM EST
    she can handle it; he can't.  It's an issue of maturity, experience, and the understanding of living in the public arena.

    Michelle Obama said that she wanted to scratch out Bill Clinton's eyes.  In front of  crowd of people and on camera, Obama himself flicked "dirt" of his shoulders, implying Clinton is dirt.  This sort of childishness is inane in the best of circumstances, but do we really want that kind of petty behavior in our nominee and his spouse?

    They are sooo not ready for prime time.

    Parent

    For Someone (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:49:19 PM EST
    Sooo unready for prime time, he has been doing remarkably well,
    just saying...

    With all due respect, I do not think that your taste is reflective of the average american, because if it was he would not be remotely a contender.

    Parent

    Doing so well? (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:54:22 PM EST
    By avoiding debates and press interviews?

    Parent
    Looks That Way (none / 0) (#125)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:56:51 PM EST
    really? (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:56:19 PM EST
    I do not think that your taste is reflective of the average american

    Let's count all the votes and see, all right?

    Parent

    No (1.00 / 1) (#135)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:06:06 PM EST
    That is not the point.  I am not talking about your fondness for Hillary but your total distaste for Obama. From what you have said the guy shouldn't be able to sell water in the mohave desert, it is clear that that is not the case, regardless of who the nominee is.

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#223)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:25:57 PM EST
    is such an empty suit that there's nothing to dislike or like.

    Now, what the party pulled?  Whoa* Nelly......

    Parent

    Over (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by sas on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:58 PM EST
    on the Republican sites they are hoping the nominee is Obama.

    They do mthink the Democrats are DUMB, but will certainly him, because that is how Democrats work.

    Parent

    More than the nomination (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by christinep on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:24:12 PM EST
    The problem is that it really is more than winning the nomination...you have to win the general. (And, as G. Bush &/or his people found, you then have to govern.) For those who get so wrapped up in the politics of the campaign and the prelude only, and then shrug with a "damn the consequences" gesture, well.... We all get a bit that way, of course. Yet, down the road may come the question that Obama's supporters may want to look at: What are his positions and do they align mostly or generally with ours?  My impression is that is unknown right now.  This "maximum unity" politics, as referred to in the ariticle, is successful campaign & placement politics, but it can also come down to "maximum me" in the end.  Slight-of-hand can be impressive; it can also be disappointing if it turns out to be mostly style.

    Parent
    Better Than McCain (3.00 / 1) (#89)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:38:57 PM EST
    What are his positions and do they align mostly or generally with ours?  My impression is that is unknown right now.

    Both Hillary and Obama are not aligned with my positions. The country has shifted to the right in the last 20 years and both candidates reflect that shift. Which is why both seem electable, to me.

    Both are miles closer to my position than McCain, though. And I think closer to most Americans today. I also think most Americans are eager to participate in making history by electing a woman or black as POTUS. The typical white men running things have been looking weak and out of touch these days, imo. I am dying to see a unity ticket.

    Parent

    Same can be said about Hillary (1.00 / 1) (#74)
    by 1jane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:29:55 PM EST
    I know one thing about Hillaryfor sure. (5.00 / 7) (#75)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:31:05 PM EST
    She will take anything that's thrown at her, stand tall. and keep fighting

    No one, even his most ardent supporter, knows what Obama will do.

    Parent

    Refuse to debate McCain? (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Fabian on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:40:15 PM EST
    Heh!

    Parent
    You Assume (5.00 / 4) (#229)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:32:10 PM EST
    Hillary has proven on multiple occasions that she certainly can weather the GOP storms. She won't be whining for them to "stop being mean" because she is far more committed to her ability and desire to do everything she can for this country.

    I read the excepts above from the Times article and I get very nervous about our foreign policies.

    Parent

    Why not go after him? (none / 0) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:18:12 PM EST
    He's won how many times now? Going after him while McCain is out there appealing to the voters who aren't in the O camp yet seems like a good strategy.

    Parent
    I want to see (5.00 / 7) (#64)
    by janarchy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:25:01 PM EST
    how he handles this. One thing I've always admired about the Clintons going back to 92 is they always fight back. They're almost always prepared for what's thrown at them and can rally round and fight back almost immediately. It's called anticipating the enemy. It's a good strategy and iirc, that was courtesy of Carville (see "The War Room").

    Somehow Obama seems to think that if someone attacks him, he can just whine and complain that people are being mean to him and that will end the situation. It worked in the beginning but anyone with half a brain knows that the Republicans don't give a sh*t. They'll just keep hammering away and digging up dirt, whether it's true or not. Either you have to refute it and counter it, or you have to fight back. To date, I've seen Obama's camp do neither when it comes to direct attacks (although they're real good at smearing their opponents).

    If the RNC and/or Republican 527s have no compunction going after one of their own (McCain), a triple amputee war vet (Max Cleland) and a war hero (John Kerry), they're not gonna lose sleep going after Obama, even if the entire MSM and his supporters shriek that it's racist. Hannity has been making thinly veiled allusions to this for some time -- they've been compiling, fishing and digging up dirt. They're just salivating and sharpening their knives.

    It's politics.

    Parent

    Really (5.00 / 6) (#104)
    by cal1942 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:45:42 PM EST
    For sixteen years the GOP and the media have attacked Hillary Clinton with impunity. You'd have to have been MIA or Rip VanWinkle to have missed that. And yet she still stands, was elected with strong majorities twice to the US Senate in spite of non-stop assaults from the GOP aided and abetted by the media.

    If nominated the GOP will attack again and the media will assist in any way possible.

    But much of it is old and for many people it goes in one ear and out the other.  After sixteen years it becomes nothing more than background noise. Anything new and creative may well be dismissed as just more background noise.

    In spite of non-stop media misrepresentations and assaults, the underhanded, divisive tactics from the Obama camp and constant media pressure to give up she's still winning primaries.

    Obama's gotten off easily so far.  The press' embrace to get rid of all things Clinton.  If Obama is nominated the GOP and the press will turn him into a wanted desperate criminal and it'll all be fresh, new and believable.

    Parent

    Yes (1.00 / 1) (#121)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:55:46 PM EST
    But she has not been in a national race for president. Big difference imo. I am all for Hillary, and think that she can beat McCain, but I do not have any illusion that she will be any better off than Obama regarding slime, old or newly minted.

    Parent
    I guess you missed my post then. (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:21:55 PM EST
    I certainly do know how she'll handle it.

    Anyone who watched her during the 90's, during her Senate campaign, and now, knows exactly how she'll handle it.

    I'm sorry that you weren't paying attention.

    Parent

    Was Not Responding To You (3.50 / 2) (#172)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:38:36 PM EST
    As compelling as you are, I was responding to another commenter, so that is why I was not paying attention, to you.  And I voted for her in 2000, saw her campaign. But I have no illusion that that would be anything like what she will face in a national campaign, same goes for imagining that Obama's senate race will be indicative of what he will face if the nominee.

    Parent
    squeak, I think you raise legitimate points (5.00 / 3) (#185)
    by lookoverthere on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:46:50 PM EST
    But I would add that sen. Obama has been protected by the media and blogs while Sen. Clinton most certainly has not.

    Now, what happens if Sen. Obama loses his media darling status? Will he be able to fight back a media attack alongside a blog flogging plus Republican ugliness? What if he no longer has the kind of funds he has now? Will he be able to withstand all of these events coming at him?

    I say no. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

    Sen. Clinton, OTOH, appear to be able to withstand the onslaught of this primary and remain a contender. Will the GOP attacks be vicious and ugly? Yep. But she's seen the vicious and the ugly. And so have we. And we've all seen her stay tough and keep campaigning when everyone else has coutned her out.

    Does Sen. Obama have this kind of tenacity? Again, I have seen no evidence supporting this.

    Of course we can agree to disagree with respect and good manners.

    Parent

    Hard To Tell (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:54:13 PM EST
    But we will see, if he gets the nomination. Still I cannot imagine the press turning on him anyway near the level of viciousness that they have done to Hillary. Although if she is the nominee I still think she will win.

    My guess is that the GOP smears will backfire on Obama, the media will come to his rescue him and he will win.

    McCain has plenty of baggage too.

    Parent

    Do you have any valid arguments besides trying (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:35:17 PM EST
    always to turn things around to get the heat off your boy?  Perhaps you have been asleep the last 16 years and don't realize that just about anythin that could ever be thrown at someone has been thrown at Hillary.  So, YES, we know there is a dossier on everyone in the mix.  Next stupid question....

    Parent
    They stay after her with their special rules (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by itsadryheat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:56:31 PM EST
    They have special rules for Clintons.  The other night on CNN David Gergin was asked if Obama would pick Hillary for Veep.  His answer incidated that he thought that Obama would not survive his presidency if he did.
    Now how does a comentator on a national media outlet get to imply a candidate will murder another candidate to get their job and NOBODY said a word of rebuke to Gergin.

    Bill  Clinton has the audacity to say something that may be comparative about Jesse Jackson's run and Obama's in South Carolina and all hell breaks loose.

     Wonder how Jackson feels to have Obama consider his name such a distasteful one to be associated with? But a Republican in the media can say what Gergvin said and nobody bats an eye?  Nobody asserts it is untrue, unfair, unfounded, un acceptable, misogynistic,way over the top and totally outrageous.

     Nobody called for Gergin to be muzzled and no large demographic rose up to take action against him.  Special rules for Clintons.  You can claim anything and get away with it.  They can never defend themselves.  So they focus on trying to keep working for us.

    When will we rise up and do what we need to do for them?  Has each of us written a media outlet to let them know how outraged we are that tnhey are trying to call the race over, depress the vote, depress the money raising, sway the superdelegates and act like we really want Obama? And did we cc it to every other outlet we know an email address for.  

    If somebody has a good up to date email list for talking heads and print reporters can you post it for those who don't?  And have we told the Sunday talk shows what we think of the conventional wisdom, just so they know?

    Parent

    Here's a list from FAIR (5.00 / 2) (#217)
    by DFLer on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:19:20 PM EST

    It's too long and detailed to paste in. Includes broadcast and print:

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=111

    Parent

    Get Rid Of Your TeeVee (4.50 / 2) (#200)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:01:23 PM EST
    I did. It will save you a lot of tsuris. Not to mention it hits them where it hurts.

    Parent
    My Boy? (1.00 / 1) (#188)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:48:40 PM EST
    Sorry to disappoint you and interrupt your fanclubbing, but Obama is not my boy, I voted for Hillary. And FYI, seems that you are the one who has been asleep for some time, calling Obama a boy is considered racist and demeaning.

    And if you believe that anyone that would question Hillary is  stupid you qualify as a cultist.

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:59:31 PM EST
    should read around here.  People call Hillary their "girl" all the time.

    Hence the "boy" reference.

    Yet another objectionable thing about nominating Obama is that suddenly practically every word mentioned could be deemed "racist" if it in any way addresses him.

    But Obama himself will still be able to get away with making mentions of "typical white people," "Archie Bunkers," "bitter-cling" etc, basically racial stereotypes of all kinds with impugnity.

    Parent

    Teresa....thanks, but maybe squeaky is just (5.00 / 2) (#219)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:19:58 PM EST
    spoiling for a fight.  I have been around a long time and never got called a racist for using the word "boy".  This is a not-so-pretty look into how much more b.s. we have to look forward to with obama on the scene.  

    Parent
    Absolutely right (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:27:21 PM EST
    What they're doing is an attempt shut down any talk about Obama.  They want people to say glowing things or nothing.

    If Obama is nominated, I welcome McCain's neutering of the whole "racial" issue.  And they'll do it.

    Parent

    He's been doing it since childhood! (5.00 / 5) (#226)
    by itsadryheat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:27:25 PM EST
    In a Newsweek article last month a  reporter interviewed people who knew Obama growing up. The article mentioned some examples of Obama's habit of blaming "racism" for his lack of performance, starting very young.

     His high school basketball coach said that Obama had accused him of racism.  Obama said that the reason he got benched in a basketball game was that the coach was a racist.  The coach said he benched Barry because he had just taken two bad shots in a row!

    A college professor reported Barry had accused him of racism.  It seems that Barry didn't like a grade he got and determined it was caused by the racism of the professor.  The professor said the grade was low because, "although you are bright enough to do the work, you won't work hard enough to do the work."

    Parent

    White Washing? (1.00 / 1) (#207)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:06:47 PM EST
    You should read around here.  People call Hillary their "girl" all the time.
    Hence the "boy" reference.

    Sorry not buying it. I am aware of the past comments by pssst and imo this was clearly racist comment. Have a little sensitivity, please. Obama is a black man and to call him boy is heavy.  We have enough racism, and sexism. Not sure why you would want to be an apologist in this case.

    Parent

    Squeaky...you doth protest too much. Perhaps (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:16:39 PM EST
    you would do well to worry about what you say, while I worry about what I say.  If you don't like what I say, then fine.  And FTR, I am not a racist, but if you feel better thinking I am, then have at it.  Are you sure you aren't Indy33 in disguise?

    Parent
    Never Said (1.00 / 1) (#221)
    by squeaky on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:21:31 PM EST
    You were a racist. What you said was racist, imo. To call Obama a boy in almost any context is a racist comment, imo. I find your comment offensive, as I imagine would most progressives.

    Parent
    I know you aren't buying it (5.00 / 1) (#224)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:26:01 PM EST
    You don't appear to be in the market for the truth.

    Parent
    has the teevee mentioned anything today (none / 0) (#87)
    by Josey on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:37:47 PM EST
    about Obama's advisor resigning because of ties with Hamas?


    Parent
    Good question! (5.00 / 1) (#216)
    by itsadryheat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:16:42 PM EST
    We need to see a really good piece on the whole Israel/Palestine issue and Obama. It needs to include the relationship of members of Hamas as a part of the government elected by the people, as  opposed to stock reactions to Hamas as a "terrorist group".

    Anyone want to write about Obama's position on how to solve the current impasse.  Don't we need to understand how he will defend himself against the Republican meme of "Obama associates with terrorists/enemies of America" and its' potential impact on Reagan Democrats.

    Parent

    Obama IMO its more say and do anything... (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Salt on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:04:06 PM EST

    D - Difficulty making everyday decisions
    D - Difficulty expressing disagreement with others


    Parent
    Flip-flopper, Waffler, Vacillator, Sways Whichever (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:41:44 PM EST
    way the wind is blowing = obama.  He has not faced any hard tests to date and I fear for America.  Empty suit as a definition of obama means we have aimed too high.  He has shown me nothing at all...the emperor has no clothes.

    I think it is evidence of his (5.00 / 11) (#6)
    by bjorn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:43:34 PM EST
    arrogance, of which all politicians have a healthy dose.  He probably has convinced himself that he hasn't really switched positions on anything, he is just trying to understand all sides.  The problem is that while there might be a lot of evidence about what he says, there is very little evidence about what he will actually do or has done and what he truly believes.  Hence, the confusion. Is he a liberal? A republican? A centrist?  The evidence of what he says could be used to support all three positions.  What does the evidence of what he has actually done prove?  I have no clue!

    The creative class doesn't switch (5.00 / 12) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:09 PM EST
    -- it "evolves."  I actually read that defense on some site.  A defense of "moral flexibility."

    (Translated: lack of personal, core, ethical principles.)

    Parent

    Oh, my gawd... (5.00 / 9) (#19)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:26 PM EST
    Ok...now I get it.  I used to believe in social justice, but now that I have money, well...I evolved.  

    Parent
    Obama needs more time (5.00 / 7) (#7)
    by Leisa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:45:12 PM EST
    defining himself before he will ever be elected president.  I share many of your views Jeralyn.  

    I do not know where he stands on the issues and he has appeared to use people as stepping stones to get to the next objective while discarding them when they are no longer needed or useful to him...

    I look forward to reading more.  I am wary of the NYT now, however.  

    I Read It (5.00 / 13) (#50)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:20:05 PM EST
    I read the article - and it's all about Obama's chronology of sucking up to the important people with money and connections - Rezko, Ayers, Minow, Miner, Jones - but at the end - you have no sense of what he has actually accomplished.  In fact, it's 7 pages of how to get the great and powerful on your side as you keep climbing up the electoral ladder.

    It's a portrait of pure power-climbing, unattached to ideology or belief or purpose.

    Parent

    The mark of a good politician (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:07 PM EST
    So long as you always remember that he's working for himself, not you.

    That's true of any pol, of course.

    Parent

    Obama magically unstained (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Josey on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:27:34 PM EST
    by grime of Chicago Way - Chicago Trib, 5/10
    http://tinyurl.com/472ayg


    Parent
    Excellent description (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by bjorn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:36 PM EST
    If there's an issue you really care about (5.00 / 11) (#8)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:49:53 PM EST
    there's a good chance, once you look at the record, that you won't quite trust Obama on it.

    This is not going to be a fun campaign season.

    He has never had to make decisions (5.00 / 11) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:54:20 PM EST
    on implementing policy.  If he is the nominee, healthcare is dead.  Cause the process, the process will be his first love.  So, nothing will get done.  That is why I truly believe that he got all that support, to kill healthcare.  The powers that be got scared with Edwards and Hillary.  

    The discussion got pushed to the back and minimized.  He will fight to preserve the Obama name.   In two years, if he is elected, nothing will have happened and we will lose Congress.  

    Round and round.  

    Parent

    That issue got Jim Cooper on his side (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:20 PM EST
    but I don't think it explains most of his institutional support.

    No, Tom Daschle and the Cook Machine think he's their puppet. Where he really stands on many issues, well, it's hard to say.

    President Obama would probably govern the way Senator Obama votes. That is, he wouldn't be terrible, but those looking for concrete reassurance are unlikely to find it.

    Parent

    I feel the same thing happened to Dean (none / 0) (#166)
    by abfabdem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:33:53 PM EST
    because he was vocal about breaking up the media and they sure didn't want that to happen.

    Parent
    there isn't a single issue I (5.00 / 19) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:00 PM EST
    trust him on, from mandatory minimums to medical marijuana to preserving social security, the death penalty, health care, gun rights and immigration.

    I've said a million times he's no liberal. Is he better than McCain? Of course. But it's like buying a pig in a poke -- we just have to hope. Maybe that's what the "hope" in "hope and change" means.

    Hillary may not be any more liberal than he is, but at least you can identify where she stands and that she sticks to it. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

    Parent

    That's been my feeling (5.00 / 9) (#22)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:59 PM EST
    At least with Hillary, I know where she stands, and it's pretty easy to know where we'll disagree.

    As they've behaved in the Senate, the two are virtually indistinguishable, but Obama's history before the U.S. Senate just doesn't inspire much confidence that he won't waffle on one issue--or all of them.

    Parent

    he was only there (5.00 / 7) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:02:28 PM EST
    two years. The last year and a half he's spent running for President.

    Parent
    and those two years in DC Obama spent (5.00 / 10) (#73)
    by kempis on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:29:45 PM EST
    laying the groundwork for his presidential run.

    A really enlightening article is "Barack Obama Inc" in Harpers, 2006. Obama hit town, immediately started working lobbyists and fund-raising to build one of the most powerful PACs in DC. The whole "he's too pure to associate with lobbyists" business is just another Obamamyth.

    He distanced himself from his lobbyist friends to sanitize himself for this election, but he's a classic, cynical, manipulative politician who is primarily interested in winning office.

    Like George W. Bush, governing doesn't seem to interest him as much as the climb.



    Parent

    Let Them Eat Process (5.00 / 7) (#76)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:31:29 PM EST
    Plus - Hillary keeps saying "I want you to hold me accountable."  That's only meaningful when tied to specific goals.  She's running to get specific things done.  Health care, education, etc.

    Obama is running to "end the game."  It's a process goal, with no demonstrable metrics - unless your definition of success is entranced masses, dining on the thin gruel of procedural rearrangements.

    Parent

    Totally agree (5.00 / 8) (#24)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:01:54 PM EST
    and further when he had to be tested, I think he made the wrong choice.  I know I obsess about this, but when he should have stood up for the people that lost their housing in his District, he defended his money guy.  I will never trust him to do the right thing if it means he loses, money or if it affects his "transcended" persona.  

    Parent
    I'm Worried About What He Is Willing (5.00 / 7) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:24:36 PM EST
    to bargain away to keep his bipartisanship creds especially when it comes to SCOTUS.

    Parent
    And his Senate votes to fund the war (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by abfabdem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:37:55 PM EST
    He could have made a statement and backed up his anti-war speech with actions but he didn't.  I just don't see evidence based on performance in his past public positions that he has the will or ability to get the work of the President done.

    Parent
    Add to this that Sen. Obama campaigned (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by lookoverthere on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:54:59 PM EST
    for the U.S. Senate saying,

    Obama also is the only candidate to say he would have fought Bush's $87 billion reconstruction request for Iraq and Afghanistan had he been in Congress.


    Parent
    His pandering on the environment (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by otherlisa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:07:32 PM EST
    told me everything I needed to know. It was obvious by his stated platform at the beginning of the campaign that he either didn't care about the environment enough to learn the issues or was deep in the pocket of special interests. Then a month or so in, his platform miraculously "Greens."

    Didn't know, didn't care or bought.

    Parent

    I think his Ag and Enviro thoughts (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:13:39 PM EST
    were/are tied to $$$. Everything seems like a game piece to him, imo. What will it get him (not us).

    I can't find out enough about where he stood on Ag pre-Iowa. Really hard (or I've turned into a lousy googler) to find any info from his state senate time.

    Parent

    On Ag - Three words (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by cal1942 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:54:28 PM EST
    Archer Daniels Midland

    BIG AG

    Parent

    ADM (5.00 / 5) (#129)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:59:51 PM EST
    Ugh.  My daughter does environmental mediation in DC and she has nothing good to say about this company.

    Every time NewsHour began its newscast with its promo, I would wince.

    I don't even watch NewsHour any more.  Things went to he** during Bush's reign. Sad.  

    Parent

    That was what I was looking for (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:59:55 PM EST
    I was looking for connections with them, Monsanto etc. I'm very suspicious in that area  ;)

    Parent
    Pig in a poke has been running through (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by jawbone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:37:30 PM EST
    my mind since the early debates, but I've hesitated to type it in comments figuring that someone somewhere would call it racist.

    So, note: One is not calling the person a pig. The phrase just means you don't have any way of knowing what you're actually getting. It'a a metaphor.

    Which is how I still feel about him. Somehow, I think he'll return to generalities in the general election.

    Parent

    Oh my, yes. (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:44:59 PM EST
    Somehow, I think he'll return to generalities in the general election.

    He'd have to, especially if he wanted to have crossovers.  It'll be painful for liberal supporters who, of course, will excuse it.

    Parent

    Unfortunately True (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:11:37 PM EST
    I know that I do not trust him on some key (make or break) issues that I care about. That is why I'm having a really hard time with the "hold your nose" and vote Dem, this time around.

    Parent
    I'm not (3.00 / 1) (#52)
    by andgarden on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:20:21 PM EST
    I've voted for worse candidates.

    I'm not very worried about him--I think he's a generic liberal. I just don't think it's possible to pin him down on much.

    Parent

    Wish I Shared Your Viewpoint But I Do Not n/t (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:25:42 PM EST
    I think he is what he admires (4.66 / 3) (#96)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:42:31 PM EST
    a Reagan Democrat

    Parent
    Academics (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:21 PM EST
    He will also fill DC with academics.  They will sit around and ponder and no one will know how to get a program designed or implemented.

    we call it analysis paralysis (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by bjorn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:44 PM EST
    Neoliberal academics ... (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:55:54 PM EST
    ... marinated in regulatory capture, and Coase Theorem, and dead-weight loss, and all kinds of reasons why it's better to keep government on the sidelines at crunch time.

    Paralysis by right-wing ideology.

    Parent

    P.S. At least Reagan had that cocktail napkin (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:56:54 PM EST
    ... with the Laffer Curve on it. :-)

    Parent
    Do Kennedy, Kerry and Daschle (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by MichaelGale on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:15:55 PM EST
    like academics?  Since they will be the power brokers and the appointers.

    Parent
    Power Failure (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by Athena on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:41 PM EST
    He's a people pleaser.  But that's at the expense of deeply-felt, unshakable positions that can't be traded for a favor.

    His goal is power, not transformation.  That's been apparent to many of us.  Hillary's pursuit of power is considered ugly and venal, while Obama's dash to power is a "noble aspiration" - however it is achieved.

    I wish I said this (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Leisa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:05:25 PM EST
    He's a people pleaser.  But that's at the expense of deeply-felt, unshakable positions that can't be traded for a favor.

    when I was talking about his need to define who he is...  

    I just do not feel that I can rely on him on any issue that is important to me.

    Parent

    Sexism (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:08:26 PM EST
    which has really bugged a lot of women in this season.  That's all about sexism.  

    Women aren't suppose to desire power.  :)

    Parent

    Your Thoughts Jeralyn ... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Mrwirez on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:59:13 PM EST
    Was this article harmful to Obama in anyway, and could it help the Super D's to make a decision to back Clinton as a stronger candidate? What say you?

    it sure wasn't flattering (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:04:15 PM EST
    but I don't think it will sway superdelegates.

    Parent
    Frustration (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:05:49 PM EST
    The press should have been writing these articles a long time ago.  

    Parent
    YES--frustration (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:11:39 PM EST
    the LA Times, the WaPo, NY Times, etc, all now writing articles about how unelectable he is in the ge, how untested, how he has no experience...

    It's not too late, though.  They seem not to understand that fact.

    Parent

    The Corporate Media (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by themomcat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:33:25 PM EST
    is doing just as expected. They treated Obama as though he were the "Precious". Now they will look at him critically and point out all his weaknesses. The DNC will hand them what they wanted. Dean, Brazile, Kennedy, Kerry, et al are either fools or shills for the corporate media.

    Parent
    Maybe the Corporate shills, (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Mrwirez on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:27:04 PM EST
    will save us from GREAT agony on a Tuesday night November. If they would do their job and not get caught up in the hype Obama is spewing. Hillary Clinton is clearly a better, more experienced, and tougher opponent than BO.

    "Caveat emptor" ........(Let the buyer beware.)


    Parent

    as the blank slate fills up (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by karen for Clinton on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:01:48 PM EST
    His rock star "fans" were at first able to say he was everything they wanted in a president.

    What they saw was a blank slate they could write whatever they hope for, whatever change they want.

    Clear positions is not his strong suit, it becomes obvious the empty suit claims are right.

    I see nefarious prospect (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:04:03 PM EST
    to sustain the rock star status, he will use to movement to be his Obama protection army.  I don't trust the Obama movement as much as I don't trust Obama.  It truly has a dangerous component that is fueled and manipulated by the new media.  

    Parent
    The more he looks like a politician (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:15:47 PM EST
    the more he gets held up to the standards of a politician.  Without the transformative change crap, what, exactly, qualifies him for this job?  Why is it that I've been searching for three months and I cannot find one comprehensive resume online that lists everything he has done and who he has worked with?  

    Sure, there's the skeleton outline, but then all these new foundations pop up, and trips he took to Palestine are slipped into his speeches...He is applying for, arguably, the most important job in the world and he doesn't even have a finished CV???

    I just don't understand.

    Parent

    Psychology (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:35:42 PM EST
    I have a feeling he does not understand the Presidency or he is seeing the Bush years and saying, yikes, if he can do it anyone can.  Well, we see where he who delegates got us to.  

    He likes the public, glad handing part, he said he does not like details.  He will delegate.  Delegating when you stand for something and you have core values that your people adhere to is one thing, but delegating when you pander and waffle, is paralysis.  

    Parent

    The illusion that is Barack Obama (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by makana44 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:06:20 PM EST
    If you want a real backgrounder that will make your stomach turn check out this article...The illusion that is Barack Obama

    And it's one of many reasons (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by makana44 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:07:33 PM EST
    that I pray that Hillary doesn't quit.

    Parent
    but coupled with the stories about how they want to control all fundraising and are telling people to stop giving to vote vets among others is very disturbing.
    I thought it was  we were the people we were waiting for not He is the one and only and only his campaign will decide.  

    Your sig name (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Cream City on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:37 PM EST
    crack(er)s me up.  Much as I admired Kitty G's autobio.  But now you have me craving chocolate squares and marshmallows, too. :-)

    Parent
    Not Surprised (5.00 / 8) (#38)
    by cal1942 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:09:48 PM EST
    It is justifiable to change a position based on new information.  It is not justifiable to change a position based on connecting with a more powerful group.

    We've seen signs of this in the campaign when his positions change based on the group he's addressing. But the stepping stone tactics he uses while tossing the prior support group under the bus reveals something terribly troubling.

    It's no surprise. For myself Obama's always appreared to be nothing but a PR gimmick lacking any substance, a man with a very thin, cheaply padded resume deliberately taking credit for the efforts of others.

    His supporters foolishly project liberalism on a man whose policy team is conservative and whose eletoral tactics are divisive and damaging to the party as a whole.

    If he is nominated and elected he'll do grievous damage to the Democratic Party.  We can't afford to have that type of President carrying the Democratic Party label.

    Just got done (5.00 / 6) (#44)
    by Iris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:15:29 PM EST
    calling voters in neighboring WV for Hillary =)

    good for you but (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:16:13 PM EST
    please stay on topic. The topic here is Obama.

    Parent
    sorry (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Iris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:54:04 PM EST
    about that Jeralyn, I'll stay on topic.

    Parent
    It's marketing, not campaigning (5.00 / 7) (#47)
    by janarchy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:16:16 PM EST
    The more I hear of him, the more it comes across as selling the Obama brand to whichever group of consumers he deems necessary at the time. It's style over substance which is what has bothered me about him from day one. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with integrity, issues and who this man actually is.

    I don't need or want a snake oil salesman in the White House. I don't need or want another politician (esp one who postures himself as above all that). I want a statesman/woman who actually is going to get things done, or at least will try his/her best and doesn't say one thing and then turn around and do another at the drop of a hat. We've already seen how that works with Dubya. You'd think people would learn but they don't.

    (And before someone starts bashing Bill Clinton, I know from personal experience that there's more to him than just Slick Willy. There are things he did in Arkansas for friends of mine which go above and beyond the call of politics as usual. Yes, he is as much of a politican as the next guy, so is HRC, but they also actually have consciences and hearts and they don't get 'bored' before the work is done.)

    Stellaaa (5.00 / 9) (#53)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:20:31 PM EST
    mentions this often: where are all the profiles from folks he helped while working as a community organizer?  Where are all those folks he helped as a state senator?  Clinton has tons come out for her no matter what state she is in.  Even Alaskans waxed poetic about the time she spent working in a fishery.  Her life, warts and all, is completely transparent.

    Can you tell me what organization Obama worked for when he was a community organizer?  How much did he make?  What other job was he doing at that time to pay the bills?  What years did he do this job?  Who were his clients at his law firm that he helped with community issues?  What years did he work at that firm and for how many hours?  What about his board memberships--what was he in charge of?

    So many questions, and no one is really asking them.

    Parent

    C'mon, his classmates in college (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Cream City on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:06 PM EST
    spilled the goods on him -- on the Obamameter that measured how much he schmoozed his profs.  It was good practice for his postgraduate career in using a community organizer position to schmoozed Rezko, in using Michelle Obama's position to schmooze his way into the Daley machine, and then there is the near-legendary story of how he schmoozed the leader of the state legislature into handing over all those bills that others had worked on for years so that Obama could put his name on them and pad his resume.

    And on and on.  I saw the needle on the Obamameter go all the way yesterday, when he did his "triumphant tour" of the other side of Congress rather than go to his own side and do his job, so he missed yet more votes.  What a fantasy it all is.

    Parent

    Link? Are these college classmates? CA or NYC? (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by jawbone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:29:22 PM EST
    Thanks much -- I may even just have forgotten this, among so much I've looked at.

    Parent
    I don't think I knew that (5.00 / 5) (#93)
    by janarchy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:41:09 PM EST
    But it doesn't surprise me one bit. There's a pattern of personality here that at least some of can see and have seen for a while.

    Early on in the campaign when I still thought of Obama as a viable candidate (for me), I asked friends who were enamoured with him to tell me more about him. To give me chapter and verse on where he stood on issues, what his pet policies were etc. All I got were platitudes and hyperbole.  Telling me to read his book(s) didn't answer the question. Telling me he believed in Hope and Change without explaing what he Hoped to Change and How didn't answer the question.

    It still hasn't.

    I'm kind of seeing him as an empty pinata these days. Kind of purty on the outside, completely without substance on the inside. Not even candy.

    Parent

    obamameter (5.00 / 3) (#108)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:48:12 PM EST
    NRO David Kahane.

    Parent
    It's like applying for a job (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by RalphB on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:33:06 PM EST
    at the age of 46 and he can't furnish a single personal reference.  That doesn't get you hired in many cases.

    Parent
    from the article referenced: (5.00 / 6) (#84)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:36:04 PM EST
    this says it all to me:

    Back then [1999], Mr. Obama, a state senator who was contemplating a run for Congress, was so little-known in the community's black neighborhoods that it was hard to find more than a few dozen people to walk with him

    Community organizer?  Working for the people?  Then why didn't anyone even know his face?

    What exactly has this guy done?  Even when he was president of the Harvard Law Review, he never, ever, not once published any of his own work.  What was he doing exactly?

    He is the ultimate resume padder (though good luck finding a comprehensive resume)  What a charlatan.  

    Parent

    Good grief. (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:41:40 PM EST
    Back then [1999], Mr. Obama, a state senator who was contemplating a run for Congress, was so little-known in the community's black neighborhoods that it was hard to find more than a few dozen people to walk with him

    He truly is an empty suit.  

    Well, George Bush is the emptiest suit there has ever been.  Now we're looking at the dem version.

    Of course, this means the country could continue to suffer, too.  

    We're definitely gambling with our future here.

    Parent

    Community organizing vs. Community Development (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:39:17 PM EST
    Basic confusion.  Organizers, just get folks to the get together and ask for something.  Now, community development types, go out get the funding, hire the people, get the financing, build the buildings, get the occupants, maintain the buildings and manage them.  

    He never took it to the next stage, the substance stage.  He did the voting drive.  Well, he got tons of money from the Soros group, and got people registered.  That was his accomplishment.  

    Parent

    His claim to fame (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:53:14 PM EST
    was and is 'get out the vote'.  If he ever gets to the White House I imagine he will be known as the next bump in voter turnout but not so much for any policy accomplishments.

    Parent
    Still, ought there not have been (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Cream City on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:38:18 PM EST
    more than a few dozen who knew him, after all those years of him "organizing" the community?

    (Thanks for your definitions, btw; very helpful, as is so much of what you have said here on this part of his background.  I really have appreciated your experience, Stellaa.:-)

    Parent

    Where is the testimony (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by christinep on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:53:43 PM EST
    Perhaps, I've slept through it.  But, Kathy raises a great question.  Where is the testimony about his work as a community organizer?  Community organizers do many things--from the truly remarkable to the mundane.  What are Obama's contributions as a community organizer? Does anyone have any specific info on that? (Oh, and since I worked 30 years in the US govt. and do understand, vague descriptions, could we just have examples of the "he helped x to do y and become z thus saving thus & so in such & such a year variety.  I don't want to be too sarcastic, but it might be important for all of us to be aware of the community organizing examples of one so close to the Presidency.)

    Parent
    About a week before the election... (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by dianem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:01:08 PM EST
    ...the right wing is going to release a television special (they'll find a channel - they own half of them) about how Obama is a fraud who never really did half of the things he says he did. This will feed the "Obama is inexperienced" fear and wipe out his chances of becoming President. Obama's campaign might try to find equally damaging dirt on McCain, but McCain managed to survive a very nasty Republican primary, there is no way that there is anything significant to be dug up at this time.

    Parent
    Stella, Agree. "Community organizers" (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by feet on earth on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:03:25 PM EST
    are those that speak on behalf of a community or a group of people and seek to become the face and mouth their issues.

    "Community workers" help people to speak for themselves.

    The result is that community workers always have those they have served speak volume about them, not the case for community organizers.

    Obama was in it not to serve the community, but for the own thie issues for his benefit and fame

    Parent

    The Clinton's are honest politicians (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by dianem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:57:59 PM EST
    They don't pretend to be anything else. They wheel and deal and work within the system. They compromise where necessary and work hard to make things happen, instead of giving pretty speeches and expecting to be handed the keys to the kingdom.

    Parent
    ok but no one is going to talk (none / 0) (#51)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:20:13 PM EST
    about Bill Clinton here, that would hijack the thread. The topic is Obama.

    Parent
    I'm sorry, Jeralyn (none / 0) (#85)
    by janarchy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:36:14 PM EST
    I just wanted to shut down that line of argument before someone did raise it or play compare and contrast. I didn't mean to hijack it!

    Parent
    Destiny is Demographics (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:22 PM EST
    BTD has made that point eloquently regarding the primaries regarding destiny and demographics.  One of the surges of the Obama campaign is an uptick from the 20-30 demographic in news.  I think, the MSM, tv, radio, newspapers, magazines, all of them, want him cause they will break into the demographic.  After that, during the GE they don't care who wins, cause they will have hooked the Demographic.  

    This confirms my suspicions (5.00 / 5) (#60)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:23:35 PM EST
    that Obama stands for Obama.  He appeals to disparate groups by courting them, telling them what they want to hear and then moving on.  There is no unifying principle bringing his supporters together.  His campaign is basically a cult of personality, which to me is a truly scary proposition.  Even Reagan, whom I loathed, stood for something.  I didn't like it, but I knew what he believed.  Obama is a smiling cipher.

    Apparently, this has worked out rather well for him (to paraphrase Barbara Bush) b/c all he's been doing since he entered politics is running for office.  If he actually gets elected President, or even if he doesn't and has to return to the Senate to serve out his term, he'll be in big trouble b/c his constituents will expect him to do some actual legislating.  Not his strong point, IMO.  

    Telling people what they want to hear... (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by christinep on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:49:28 PM EST
    Haven't we all known or worked with climbers sweet talkers, and posturers who tell people what they want to hear?  Some of that is truly "politic" in many senses of the word. One of the most effective techniques for ingratiating people is to imply something that they want to hear/believe without really saying.  No matter, it all comes around eventually. But, it surely is nothing new...it is the oldest thing in the book.

    Parent
    Got chills reading this, not the good kind -- (5.00 / 14) (#68)
    by jawbone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:54 PM EST
    I was also reading Ian Walsh over at The Agonist who is taking a dispassionate and fairly cynical view of The One. Again, chilling.

    Walsh is telling progressives and liberals to get ready to be dumped on, dropped, and, not a phrase Walsh uses, thrown under the bus.  If and when it's "necessary" or politically expedient.  Indeed, he thinks Obama has already done that to DKos and MoveOn; they just don't realize it.

    Ooof.

    Walsh and Lambert both see a takeover of the Democratic Party. Somehow that seems too large a task to accomplish so quickly, but I'm not really familiar with how parties function. The more I'm reading, however, the more it seems within the realm of possibility. And to what end? Lambert sees big money powers behind it, if I get what he's saying. Who, what really?  Obama does not seem to me to be quite strategic enough to manage all this, but I could be simply bamboozled, etc.

    Yikes.

    Talking about Obama last night, I told a friend that for the first time in my adult lifetime of voting for Democrats I have deep reservations about a candidate because I can't pin down what that candidate actually stands for and plans to do. I did not work for Hubert Humphrey in the primaries, but, when he got the nod, I at least knew where he stood, what he stood for, and I could support almost all of it enough to work for him. I have no such comfort about Obama.

    It's what's driven me away from Obama since I really began researching his past actions after he won IA. I wasn't getting info from the MCM (Mainstream Corporate Media) or the blogs I was reading most of the time (they were avoiding taking sides, so also pretty much avoided real digging into any of the potentials, it seemed to me -- very frustrating).

    So, I began my own search for info. Which lead me eventually to supporting Hillary Clinton, a candidate I hadn't really anticipated feeling passionate about. I was even thinking that not running for president and having to consider the effects of her stands would make her even a more liberal senator, so it might be to the good. Now, I strongly believe she would be a very good president and work for things I believe in (and, yes, I know anyone will disppoint me in some things).

    Now, a quarter of a year later after my search for information, and still with so little in the MCM about Obama, nearing the end of the primary season, the NYTimes finally comes out with something fairly comprehensive? Thanks a lot, Grey Lady, thanks a lot.

    A genuine t/u to you, Jeralyn, for posting about this.

    Good article, nice reporting (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Korha on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:40:17 PM EST


    The evidence speaks for (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by mg7505 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:44:23 PM EST
    itself. How does a career politician with no major accomplishments rise this high? And how does he have the support of so many in the party? He could be God incarnate, and a lot of folks seem to believe so. Or maybe he's just been in the right places at the right times with the right views and the right connections. But in this political system I think the latter is more likely. So much for transforming politics.

    --
    Will you be a person who changes the world, or will you merely change your position in it?

    How did Bush rise (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:52:40 PM EST
    to the presidency?

    Money, powerful backers, media support, cheating.

    He would have been a one termer, but for the events on a sunny Septmeber day.  And people even seemed to forgive him for that and the aftermath - Iraq, in the 2004 election (and more cheating, of course).

    Parent

    I'm no admirer of Bush... (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:29:15 PM EST
    ... but he has at least been fairly consistent to the principles (which I don't share) that got him elected, and fairly loyal (often to a fault) to the people who helped him along the way. Obama seems like he'll stand for anything and step on anyone on his way to the top. He might turn out to be a good President, maybe even a great one - but I don't think anyone at all can say with any confidence what they are buying into by voting for him.

    Parent
    Another take on BO in Chicago (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by RonK Seattle on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:45:46 PM EST
    At The Swamp, John Kass marvels at media blindness to Obama's tangled old Chicago political roots: Obama unstained by Chicago Way

    So why the disconnect? Why is Obama allowed to campaign as a reformer, virtually unchallenged by the media, though he's a product of Chicago politics and has never condemned the wholesale political corruption in his home town the way he condemns those darn Washington lobbyists.


    It's the lying we have to worry about.... (5.00 / 17) (#107)
    by itsadryheat on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:47:59 PM EST
    First, he denies the position he had taken.
    Then the questionaire is made public outlining the position.
    Then he denies seeing the questionaire.  Later he says an aide filled it out and was guessing wrong about his views.
    When the questionaire is produced with authentication of  Obama's handwriting on it, he contends that it was not on the controversial question.  He says that he did not read the answers.

    And now we have the group responsible for the questionaire attesting to a meeting with Obama where his views on the questions were discussed in person from Senator Obama's mouth.

    Still, he will not acknowledge the truth.

    This problem has surfaced in many instances throughout the campaign. He steadfastly refused to attend or identify with the events and institutions of the AA community in the early days of the campaign.

     When the community was meeting to address challenges, celebrate, honor leaders or mourn, a Clinton was always there.  An Obama was not.  Then he toured Black groups in South Carolina, talking about "we all know what's going on here;we know what they're trying to do to us." His campaign accusses the Clintons of racial politics.Sudden solidarity.  Solid voting block.  But afterwards, will he accept invitations to speak to NAACP or The State of the Black Union or to lend his prescence and power to the Katrina conference and other groups trying to address community challenges?  No.  Before and after the Black community in a state unites to vote for him as one of them, he refuses to associate himself with them.

    Another veracity issue that needs examination is centered around what he has alledged on the stump about Senator Clinton. He  often says things in events about Hillary that are demonstrably false but he does not get called on it by any truth squad type of reporting and Hillary's campaign has chosen, to her detriment,not to actively address them, alowing them to become "conventional wisdom" in the media.

    In his public relationship with the Democratic Party and National Committee, Senator Obama has directly asserted or encouraged views of the rules and primary process that are not based in reality.   The whole delegate class distinction with some valid and some not is a meme that has helped him tremendously.  And the notion that winning a state that Democrats can't take in the fall is equivilant to winning a state we must.  Or that the number of states won counts the same or more than the number of electoral votes a candidate can collect, just to list a few.

     Now we have the big celebration for May 20 when he will claim total victory even though the rules say he has to have half of the convention delegates plus one to win.  If 50 states are seated in the convention, the total needed to get the nomination is 2209, not what he will claim May 20th. Another meme to confuse and twist the true process illigetimately to his favor.

     Another twist is to assert that a superdelegate, should bedeclared before the convention and once declared, can be counted. Not until they vote by secret ballot in August.In the meantime they may change their minds as often as they think they can get away with and vote for whomever they like in secret when the time comes! And remember the one about superdelegates having to vote their district until it no longer seemed to favor Obama.

    Just this week the candidate, his wife, the campaign, their supporters and thier media fans push together very hard to get Hillary out of the race,again, delcaring that it is over. No explanation of why they are all determined to prevent the process from its' natural conclusion.  What are they all so concerned about that they risk totally alienating so many voters with this bullying impatience? It is not the way the rules of the process go. But is the campaign only loyal to the Party on some rules and not others?

      The Gallup poll this week says that while 15% want Obama to drop out now and 23% want Hillary to drop out now, 60% want both to keep in the race. The Democratic voters want this race to contiune and they definitely want Hillary to stay in, so what group are the Obama campaign being  loyal to now and what group is now being dissed to Obama's perceived advantage?

    Thank you so much for doing this diary.

    I am so relieved that some news outlet is finally addressing the problem Senator has with being appearing to be part of one group for support and then dissing them for another for their support.

     And we need to know what his views really are.  His supporters comment that he has 200 experts working for him in fifty subject areas but when we get specifics of his views they are often vague, or just like Hillary's but tweaked to favor some corporate interest group.

     Ex. taking over her Energy Plan with the Green Collar jobs and alternatives and such, but adding a whole lot of nuclear, coal and industry-favoring bits and voluntary compliance to Hillary's more environmentally friendly, re-regulated comprehensive plan.  Again, Senator Obama seems to appeal to environmentalist groups more than Clinton in the exit polls, but they don't seem versed on how he is associating with pollution bad actors and energy companies or his views on taxing and regulating them.

    I hope the Times covers more and more of the glaring examples of Senator Obama's apparent difficulty with veracity before it is too late.

    you got it right (5.00 / 5) (#209)
    by BostonIndependent on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:09:22 PM EST
    Obama has been proven a liar - time and again.

    Look at the record on how he has dissembled about his connections to Rezko, to Wright, to Ayers, to his campaign's positions on Clinton..

    And he telegraphs his lies.. just look at when he pauses trying to choose his words carefully.

    To me -- that's the problem I have w/ Obama: his judgement and character are NOT what I want in my President.

    As simple as that. It's a matter of trust.


    Parent

    But he never saw the handgun statement (5.00 / 4) (#112)
    by dianem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:51:38 PM EST
    It was written by an aide, and he never even saw it, even though his handwritten comments were on a page of the same memo. Really. I saw the memo up on Clinton's web site.

    So... why is Clinton being branded a liar for messing up the Bosnia story while Obama gets a free ride on this?

    Because (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by otherlisa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:54:32 PM EST
    IOKIYAO

    Parent
    Just gotcha (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:03:46 PM EST
    stuff.  Everyone knows he's a flip-flopper.

    They honestly don't care.  And maybe they shouldn't either on stuff like that.

    What is a concern is that he has no vision for the country other than the race stuff.  I frankly feel like taking a nap over that issue!  I don't WANT 4 years of race crud.

    Parent

    Please don't discount (5.00 / 2) (#210)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    the flip-flopper issue.

    McCain will play it up, and he has a long voting record, military "credentials", and political  experience.

    Obama has none of the three.


    Parent

    The consummate politician (5.00 / 8) (#134)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:04:55 PM EST
    I've finished reading the article - thanks, Jeralyn! - and I see a man consumed by ambition and not particularly interested in public service.  Of course, I know they're all politicians, but I find it sadly ironic that Hillary gets the rap as the one who would step on anybody in her ruthless rise to power.  I don't get the sense that he cares about the interests of any of the people whose support he courts.  

    Obviously, he's a great schmoozer, which is an invaluable skill for a politician, but it needs to be balanced out by working for the interests of his constituents.  That is strikingly lacking here.  He seems to leapfrog from one group to another, telling them what they want to hear so he can ascend to the next level.  

    Obama has been (5.00 / 5) (#187)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:48:08 PM EST
    all about Obama since day 1.  No surprise to me, anyway.

    He doesn't stand for anything because he's not interested.

    It's no surprise he's bored with campaigning.  This isn't about idealogy or doing for others.

    It's about him.

    He really always meant:  "I am the one you've been waiting for."

    What's shocking is just how that doesn't mean anything.

    Parent

    More bio (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by DFLer on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:06:52 PM EST
    The NYT article jumped from the mtg. with the Jackson s to the "Speech" I would have liked more bio on the Senate race etc. I didn't find anything damning in particular....just politics as often/usual. Claiming a movement that is post-politics is annoying.

    This is a good article:

    Barack and Me by Todd Spivak

    www.houstonpress.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/full  

    Not One On-The-Ground Accomplishment (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by Bob Boardman on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:09:10 PM EST
    written about Obama in a 7-page profile in the New York Times. Really quite unbelievable.

    Can anyone name an major achievement of Obama? Something - separate from pork and patronage - that he did to help his constituents?

    Who will be waiting in line for the favors that President Obama will be doling out? Rev. Wright has been quiet for a while. That should earn him something.

    Speaking only for the entire state of Michigan, I'd say McCain is the better way to go.

    Democratic corruption (5.00 / 5) (#145)
    by Foxx on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:16:10 PM EST
    Obama could not have gotten where he is without the collaboration of the core of the party leadership. They want someone who will not challenge the status quo, will not get things done, push for universal healthcare, real regulation. They want to be a teeny bit better than the republicans and that's it.

    I feel a fool to have gotten this old and not realized how corrupt they are.

    Well he's no hero (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by lilburro on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:20:18 PM EST
    on my favorite issue, healthcare, and I don't think he will ever be.  I think he will end up lowering costs, possibly, but he will not even approach universiality.  He will find the experts he needs to find to support his approaches.  And his approach will clearly be the mildest possible.  That's what I forsee.

    I think foreign policy will be where he chooses to make his mark.  Otherwise, he clearly thinks that the way to get elected is to creep slowly toward the other side and never let them feel left out.  That means adapting Republican methods and views on healthcare and saying 'tax cut' a lot.

    I don't think he has one plan (5.00 / 5) (#155)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:23:58 PM EST
    for what he'll do if he gets the presidency.  I think he just wants to get it, then he'll decide what to do.

    Parent
    No, his handlers (5.00 / 3) (#218)
    by DJ on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:19:24 PM EST
    will tell him what they want him to do.  

    sigh

    Parent

    It seemed like for a while there (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Kathy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:23:19 PM EST
    that they took some time off to regroup or something.

    Ah, the peace.

    Chameleon (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:33:35 PM EST
    and vagueness is obviously his brand of appeal.  What is alarming is that it appeals to so many who are supposedly educated.

    Vague is good?  Lack of true principles and beliefs is good?

    I am reminded of some interesting work I did years ago about how creativity and thinking are linked.  Perhaps there's a clear reason why America hasn't been a front-runner for awhile.  

    The GE voters (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:41:21 PM EST
    don't want vagueness....I don't think it's going to work.

    Parent
    So he's the (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:44:41 PM EST
    Scarlet Pimpernel.  I think not!

    Where would we be today (5.00 / 3) (#212)
    by Saul on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:13:51 PM EST
    if you could start the primaries all over right now.   I think after the primaries would be over with, I doubt very seriously that Obama would be the leader in the nomination process today, especially knowing what we know about him right now. I think many voters if they could vote over again would not vote for Obama and would vote for Hilary.

    Maybe they need to start some polls in all the sates that have voted to see if voters that voted for Obama now regret their vote and wish they had it back.  

    NYTimes article -- just read it... (5.00 / 5) (#231)
    by BostonIndependent on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:48:04 PM EST
    The NY Times went looking .. and found NOTHING. This article confirms what a lot of us know about Obama. He does not have a single accomplishment on behalf of his constituents, has not expended political capital on anything.. has no singular passion that will drive him -- beyond Obama himself. Worse.. his lack of experience with politics at the national level, his utter lack of knowledge of foreign policy, of national economics etc. etc. come through loud and clear in this article. Little wonder he has not been able to hold his own against Senator Clinton in their debates on various policy issues.

    In product management there's a well known saying that if you want to appeal to the widest group of customers you have to design to the lowest common denominator of requirements.

    That's what the country is now getting. A person who appears to listen to everyone but when he has to deliver -- will not be able to do anything at all! His unity and coalition-building and re-parsing of words -- will be meaningless w/ the first real issue he runs into as President.

    As I've said before -- Obama is like New Coke -- fashioned by marketeers -- who were convinced by taste testers that they could beat Pepsi. Unfortunately, as Malcolm Gladwell points out in Blink, taste testsrs rarely drink the entire can, and when opinions were driven by what you have to take home -- Classic Coke came roaring back. The Dems would do well to remember that lesson.

    Comments now closed (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:53:33 PM EST
    Thread cleaned of off topic comments.

    A couple quotes from. . . (5.00 / 2) (#233)
    by NotThatStupid on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:14:07 PM EST
    . . . Eric Hoffer's The True Believer, Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements:

    From chapter XV, "Men of Words":

    Whatever the type, there is a deep-seated craving common to almost all men of words which determines their attitude to the prevailing order. It is a craving for recognition; a craving for a clearly marked status above the common run of humanity.

    And

    However much the protesting man of words sees himself as the champion of the downtrodden and injured, the grievance which animates him is, with very few exceptions, private and personal.

    I've been meaning to return to this book for months, since I first saw the coverage of Senator Obama in the media and observed the reactions of his supporters. I'm glad I finally got around to re-reading it, lots of observations in it that apply to the Senator from Illinois and his base.

    I keep asking (5.00 / 3) (#234)
    by camellia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:29:45 PM EST
    a question that no-one seems to either be able or want to answer:  how is it that so many of the Democratic establishment are so supportive of Obama?  Why do people like Kennedy and Richardson throw their support behind a man who really appears to be the proverbial "empty suit", even to my politically unsophisticated eyes?  Why have so many of the superdels already given him their votes?  Are they unable to see this emperor's lack of clothes?  Or -- are they the ones who have woven the emperor's new clothes, and so are obligated to admire their cut and design?

    His slogans -- "We are the ones we've been waiting for" and "We are the change that we seek" are patent nonsense.  Why are these people supporting him?  What is really going on here?

    I read his first book, and I was struck by how juvenile it was.  His little whines about being discriminated against because of his race -- while attending arguably the most prestigious school in the Pacific area on scholarship!  Such discrimination--the poor baby!  

    If I were to start a petition (5.00 / 3) (#235)
    by facta non verba on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:49:53 PM EST
    against Obama, I'd start by quoting Jeralyn:
    I have no use for the kind of unity that trumps taking a position on issues based on one's beliefs in favor of a taking a position based on who it will appeal to and then not sticking to it.

    He wants to be all things to all people and in politics he will find that in pursuit of that objective, you will end up being nothing to a whole lot of people.

    So the long knives are comming out (4.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Radix on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:40:23 PM EST
    I'm sure the Times is going to run a simular piece about McCain, not.

    I wonder how long... (1.00 / 2) (#59)
    by sar75 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:23:02 PM EST
    ...the good Democrats at TalkLeft are going to continue bashing the Democratic nominee for president?

    Abetting the victory of McCain is nothing to be proud of.

    As far as I know (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by stillife on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:24:58 PM EST
    we don't have a Democratic nominee for President at this point in time.

    Parent
    'Zactly. (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:27:07 PM EST
    We're "abetting" Hillary Clinton's campaign.  :)

    Parent
    We do have a nominee.... (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by sar75 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:33:18 PM EST
    ...only Clinton and her most ardent supporters don't know this.

    Parent
    And who would that be? (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by janarchy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:42:57 PM EST
    No one's reached the magic numbers to have the correct number of delegates to acheive it on his/her own and no one has gone to the convention and sat through the delegate votes to obtain them.

    A virtual coronation is not reality.

    Parent

    The definition of nominee (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by christinep on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:44:47 PM EST
    The Democratic Party has long selected its nominee, and formally ratified that selection, at its quadrennial convention. Suggesting that anyone is now talking against an as-yet-to-be-selected nominee is balderdash at best and strongarming at worst. Kindly, cut it out.

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    Actually, we don't (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by dianem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:53:43 PM EST
    Until the convention, the nomination is not final. Even McCain is being called the "presumptive" nominee. Obama doesn't get special privileges, in spite of what his supporter's want. There is a process to select a nominee. No shortcuts.

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    He reached 2209?! News to me . . . ;) (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:49 PM EST
    I loved BTD's term (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by oculus on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:31:29 PM EST
    for this in an earlier post today:  "triumphalism."  

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    How is this post bashing? (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Manuel on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:49:55 PM EST
    Did you read the article?  It is fairly evenhanded.  It does reinforce what some of us fear about Obama.  Political calculation drives a lot of his positions.  They were present even in his famous antiwar speech.  I would love to see one example of an issue where Obama took a stand based on conviction and paid a political price.

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    Oh heavens (5.00 / 5) (#197)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:59:31 PM EST
    McCain is not going to have to play the game with one hand tied behind his back like the Democratic Party insisted that Hillary do.

    He'll take him out in a heartbeat over the war stuff.  The guy contradicted his own position.  It's on record.  It was a sign of sheer insanity that when Bill called his war position a "fairy tale" it got twisted by Kennedy into being a race issue.

    Right then, I knew what was going on.  The "boys" in Washington wanted a president in their pocket.

    But McCain seems goofy at times and then......whoosh......he comes out with a very direct, commonsense and hard-hitting remark that has everyone in the room nodding their heads up and down.

    He's being underestimated, in my opinion.

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    Guilt-tripping (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:43:15 PM EST
    fellow Democrats isn't really going to work.  That kind of tactic has been repeatedly employed in this election, to no avail.  If Obama supporters feel good because "blood isn't running in the streets," OK.  

    But I'm a bit more interested in the country's future than in Obama's or in the Democratic Party's future.  The Democratic party who puts forth a weak candidate with no real principles, no real solutions for the country, frankly doesn't deserve a lot of loyalty or support.

    It deserves to be taken to to woodshed.

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    It's starting to seem funny to me.... (5.00 / 4) (#206)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:04:51 PM EST
    ...it's almost like we here at talk left are a conundrum that must be figured out. How exactly does one phrase the guilt trip to make us see the light? I guess we'll know it when we see it. At this point, not even close.

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    Thank you AnninCA (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by BostonIndependent on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:14:00 PM EST
    Exactly how I feel. Woodshed it is!

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    I know (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:47:38 PM EST
    Abetting the victory of McCain is nothing to be proud of.

    And I am humbled by your recognition and I assume, apology, for supporting and nominating a weak candidate who ultimately helps McCain win.

    Parent

    We will let you know just as soon as there IS (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:02:04 PM EST
    a democratic nominee....not a presumptive one!

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    Heh. (none / 0) (#178)
    by pie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:41:07 PM EST


    The only important thing .... (none / 0) (#196)
    by Robot Porter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:59:19 PM EST
    about Obama to most of his supporters is that he's not Hillary.

    Of course, it takes no effort on his part to retain this "attribute."

    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:03:05 PM EST
    if it's somehow politically expedient, he'll become both Hillary and Obama. ;-)  That's what this article is all about -- being on both sides of issues...

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    There will be a flurry of endorsements (none / 0) (#201)
    by DJ on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:01:28 PM EST
    this weekend to help offset this piece.

    *chuckle* (5.00 / 4) (#211)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:11:28 PM EST
    You got the style down.  :)

    It's a good roadmap for me.  Seriously, I started noticing that I don't like a lot of his endorsers much.

    Listening to them confirmed it.

    The endorsers he gets are a lot like him.  They are more about themselves than about the country, with a few exceptions.

    It's interesting to me that this seemingly very interested new progressive movement is not worried about the lack of depth and quality in the entire group behind Obama.

    Very interesting season.

    I'm no longer interested in the party, per se.  I think I've seen a way where one can back solid people regardless of their party.

    Parent