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Obama Supporting PA Rep Vows Concerted Opposition To Unity Ticket

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:41:55 PM EST
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This is an amazing statement from Obama supporting Pennsylvania State Represenative Mark Cohen. After arguing the Presidential nominee should not be pressured to accept a Vice Presidential candidate not of his or her choosing, he vows to, get this, pressure the likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama to NOT choose Hillary Clinton:

I do not think the "Vote Both" gambit will work. But it certainly bears watching, analysis, and in the judgment of many including myself, concerted opposition.

Concerted opposition to what? Barack Obama will choose his nominee. Does Rep. Cohen plan to oppose such a decision by Obama? What is wrong with some Obama supporters? Are they intent on losing in November by keeping the Democratic Party divided? I know next to nothing about this PA State Rep, but what I see here indicates he is not very bright. I wonder what the Obama camp thinks of his actions and statements. Someone should ask them.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Obama Supporting PA Rep Vows Concerted Opposition To Unity Ticket | 202 comments (202 topical)
    Cohen wrote at Dailykos after the Iowa loss that (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by tigercourse on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:45:02 PM EST
    Clinton should drop out. Only one state and he thought she should quit.

    What an idiot (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    Let's hope State Rep is as far as he goes. We have enough idiots in the higher echelons of our Party.

    I wonder what Rendell thinks of him.

    Parent

    It seems obvious (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Steve M on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:21 PM EST
    that he sees DKos as his ticket to higher office.

    Parent
    well, didn't it work for Obama? (none / 0) (#113)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:11 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#152)
    by Steve M on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:20 PM EST
    the love Daily Kos bears for Obama is unrequited.

    Parent
    Don't make me laugh like that... (none / 0) (#162)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:03:53 PM EST
    it hurts ::pout::

    Parent
    Kind of puts the kabosh (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:46:11 PM EST
    on your theory that Rham was speaking at the behest of Obama, doesn't it? These people obviously think they can win without the Hillary supporters OR that the conditions are so bad right now that a one-eyed cat could win against McCain and, therefore, we will have no choice but to be good little girls and fall in line.

    Not really (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:47:15 PM EST
    This guy is posting diaries at DailyKos. He sounds like a nobody to me.

    Parent
    True, but (none / 0) (#8)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:52:36 PM EST
    why such different messages from the Obama camp if that is the case? I think my personal theory is more likely -- Rahm is smarter then the Obama camp and knows what needs to be done to win in the fall and bad mouthing/dismissing Hillary (and by extension her supporters) isn't the ticket.

    Parent
    Rahm is trying to save the party. (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:21 PM EST
    He has my ear.  Let's see how this plays out.  If he takes a hard line against this kind of crap, it'll go a long way toward helping the cause.

    Of course, do I have to say that Obama decrying this sort of crap would go even farther?

    This is why we have to keep supporting Clinton.  I phone banked today, I'll phone bank tomorrow and Tues, and on until this is over.  It's not too late...Rise, Hillary, Rise!

    Parent

    Bless KUSA!!! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by RalphB on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:08:36 PM EST
    Save me from voting for McCain.


    Parent
    Remind me again on those (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:15:41 PM EST
    predictions for IN and NC though.

    Parent
    I nailed NC (none / 0) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:22:02 PM EST
    Not so good on IN.

    KUSA, I do not know.

    Parent

    Ahem (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:30:04 PM EST
    I believe he was trying to humiliate KUSA in the grand, "if you cut me, why not cut me some more" tradition.

    Taking into account past predictions that have been not so...er...wrongly right...

    WVA:  Obama by 16
    KY: Obama by 22
    OR: Obama by 60
    MT: Obama by 12
    PR: Obama by 90

    Parent

    Now you are over-compensating. (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:34:28 PM EST


    Parent
    duh. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:05 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh, I have a few months of (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by nycstray on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:22:34 PM EST
    rollover credits to use. I'll be using them tomorrow and Tuesday. I think I have about $250 or more, lol!~ And then I'll move on to OR and KY. I'm proud to say some of our rural farmers have taken to the road to help her out also, which I think is fantastic.

    Obama has been silent FAR too long. It ain't over until the Lady in the pant suits says so.  

    Parent

    What responses are you getting to (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:41 PM EST
    your phone calls?

    Parent
    calls have been informative (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:23 PM EST
    and I'll speak just from my own experience and not for KUSA.  The women are fired up, which hasn't been surprising.  The men are fired up in a different way, though.  When I explain to them that Clinton still has a chance, that it's tight but certainly not over, they kind of mumble a bit, then say, "that's not fair to call for her to drop out, then."

    And I'm not saying that every call has been like this by any stretch, but I'm a little chattier than I am supposed to be (I go off script!) and, speaking frankly, these are my people.  I come from good redneck stock.  I've got close kin living in trailers and proud of it.  They tend to be a progressive lot and they think your business is your own and they stay out of it.  There is a certain amount of pride these people have, and they don't like to feel they have been lied to--or denigrated.

    And there's something else about living that close to the line, where you hunt because you need food, and you have a garden because you can't afford to buy vegetables to feed your kids: you admire a fighter.  You admire someone who won't quit no matter how the odds are stacked against you.  I have to admit, it's been very cathartic making these calls.

    nycstray, have you had this happen, or am I an anomaly?

    Parent

    So, then, you don't use this (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:27 PM EST
    information in your polling results?  

    P.S.  I heard a man who started farming say his family lives on less than $20,000 a year but grows its own food, has solar energy, and he intends to do this until he dies.  

    Parent

    oh, heck no (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:55:41 PM EST
    KUSA never used data to reach its conclusions.  In retrospect, that might have been unwise, but who am I to questions KUSA's methods?  They have been right on every single election, according to their website.

    Have you been making calls, too?  It really puts you in touch with what matters, doesn't it?  These people are in such dire need of good government.  One woman I spoke with sounded SO TIRED.  She was home to feed her kids, then had to go to her second job.  She works 7 days a week, is raising three kids on her own, and is barely making ends meet.

    I've been wondering (off topic, it seems) what will Brazile's new dem party stand for?  What issues will they have on their platform?  What will they place value on?  To go on topic, what does this Cohen fella think is going to happen at the end of all of this?

    Parent

    Hello? I've been making calls too! (5.00 / 4) (#192)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:21:15 PM EST
    What, you don't want my take? Ok since you didn't ask for it, here it is: I have the same impression as you -- so many women have told me emphatically "I'm voting for her, all my family is voting for her and all my co-workers are voting for her." The men have been mostly stopping me after "I'm a volunteer with the Hillary Clinton campaign" by saying "Don't worry, I'm voting for her." I laugh and tell them "well, you just made my job easier!" I have gotten some undecideds and a very few "refuse to answer" (i.e., "thanks not interested" like you do to solicitors) and one Republican for McCain, but not one Obama supporter. Dare I hope this is good? I don't tend to chat up people  -- I don't exactly stay "on script" but I try to make the call short and pleasant.  

    Parent
    Thanks for all you are doing!! (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:22:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Wouldn't some research bew in order (none / 0) (#35)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:12:46 PM EST
    before hyou dismiss him as "not very bright?"

    Parent
    who said he wasn't "very bright"? (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:19:18 PM EST
    if you're going to accuse me of saying something, cite something I actually said. That said, I do not need to do any research to know that dissing Clinton (and by extension her supporters) isn't the wisest tack to take to win her supporters over.

    Parent
    I said it (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:21 PM EST
    And I stand by it.

    Parent
    sorry, I thought the poster (none / 0) (#51)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:23:42 PM EST
    was responding to me.

    Parent
    I did research (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:02 PM EST
    I read his idiotic diary. are there some flashed of brilliance you want to point me to Masel? I saw his resume. He did not room with you and Feingold.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST


    Parent
    I don't take much from Rep. Cohen's linked post (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:41 PM EST
    but much of his previous material's been good.

    Parent
    Then he is just an idiot about Obama? (none / 0) (#190)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST


    Parent
    Everybody's an idiot as regards this nomination, (none / 0) (#196)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:26:37 PM EST
    yours truly included. Possible exceptions, Jimmy Carter.

    Parent
    Did you mean this to be funny? (none / 0) (#100)
    by hitchhiker on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:14 PM EST
    This guy is posting diaries at DailyKos. He sounds like a nobody to me

    Because it was. :)

    Parent

    Posting on Daily Kos. (none / 0) (#120)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:51:52 PM EST
    It's the new status symbol ;-).

    Parent
    Damn... (none / 0) (#174)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:08:05 PM EST
    no one told me that. Heck I'd been posting there for years and had no clue that it was some sort of status symbol.


    Parent
    Rahm is going to be really busy (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:47:58 PM EST
    putting out fires.  

    I think he's just realized (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:15 PM EST
    that they're not campfires, but raging forest fires. I cannot believe someone as politically savvy, as street smart, as Rahm, did not see this coming.

    Obviously, for an Obama delegate to make a statement like this, there is much talk of a unity ticket behind closed doors.  Elsewise, why are we seeing it all over the place?

    What a freakin' mess this is.  I have never felt so disillusioned in my life.

    Parent

    I look (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:11:07 PM EST
    at it this way:
    Obama is going to lose the general election. Let's all just face that fact right now. He's been claiming to be the nominee for 2 months now and has done nothing but continually insult working class voters, women and hispanics. I'm sure the majority of these people have simply had it and the polls are showing larger and larger percentages that will not vote for Obama in Nov.

    The upside of all this is the fact that we can kick out all these people who continually bring us these loser candidates. Get rid of Pelosi, Kennedy etc. Time for new blood. Time to get back to our Harry Truman roots. Time to be for the working class again instead of these arugula eating whiners. End of Rant.

    Parent

    You forgot Asians. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:14:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:16:23 PM EST
    I was struggling to try to remember that other demographic.

    Wow, with those demographics what % will he get in GA if he's the nominee? I'd say about 39% of the vote.

    Parent

    Wonder what's happened with fundraising (none / 0) (#206)
    by daria g on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:50:03 PM EST
    He has to notice that.  I keep getting messages from the DCCC asking again for $$, and finally emailed through their web contact form, expressing my opinion that Sen. Obama was being pushed by Dems in Congress as the nominee, and I did not trust that Sen. Obama would stand up for core Democratic values particularly on universal health care, and therefore could not contribute.

    Parent
    These stories keep popping up. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by lilburro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:56:23 PM EST
    They make me angry each time.  How do they think they're going to unify the party if Clinton isn't included?  Having Clinton as VP will smooth over some of the controversies of this campaign and allow Obama to tap into the Dem legacy if need be.  Kicking out Clinton publicly is not going to make it easy for Obama to campaign for the GE.  Good luck drawing the crowds Bill does in small towns, or getting the women who come out for Clinton to come out for you.  I think having Clinton as VP puts a sizeable dent in the number of people who claim they won't vote for Obama, but they will vote for Clinton, for Pres.

    The Clintons are GREAT campaigners.  Who else in the party, aside from Obama, is half as good?  

    Plus, I think image-wise, if Obama brings Clinton onto the ticket, it will be seen as an invitation to some of her supporters who thus far have been characterized as low brow racists.  We need everyone involved in this party.  Obama says he can work with the other side; he now has to work with the other side of the party.  

    Argh!  Luckily, I'm sure a PA state rep has no influence in Obamaworld.  I doubt he even cares about half his endorsers.    

    Clinton doesn't need to be on the ticket (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:03:57 PM EST
    in fact, I think she would be smarter not to be Obama's VP as I think she would be more effective in the Senate (and I think it would be demeaning to her) -- all I'm asking for is that they don't keep ripping her apart like they are doing and give her the respect she deserves to "allow" her to turn down the VP spot in favor of "going back" to the Senate.
    But all of this is neither here nor there -- I still fully expect that come August, she will be the nominee.  

    Parent
    Not only are they good campaigners (none / 0) (#19)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:11 PM EST
    But having the Clintons on his side would allow Obama to campaign in the west and northwest and have Hillary and Bill working in the south, making the republicans play defense everywhere and stretching their resources. Obama would activate young voters and Hillary would activate women. As Bill said, they really could be unstoppable. I don't care if he doesn't get along with them, this election is too important!  

    Parent
    If they have no role in Obama's GE campaign (none / 0) (#25)
    by lilburro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    then that will mean the ostracization of a Democratic president.  I find that intolerable.

    Parent
    Worse (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:14:36 PM EST
    It would be incredibly stupid, blind, just plain needless and dumb.

    Parent
    I think... (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by p lukasiak on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:28:46 PM EST
    I think that the smartest use for the Clintons would be for them to concentrate on House, Senate, and (especially) gubenatorial races.  The importance of winning as many governorships as possible this year cannot be overstated -- they will be in office when congressional reapportionment happens after the 2010 census, and will have veto power over plans in their states.

    Either that, or Hillary should run for president as the head of a party called the "Democratic Party -- Not Insane Division"

    Parent

    hurtful too really (none / 0) (#87)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:42:35 PM EST
    Is the Obama camp calling for a completion of the coup and for kicking the Clintons and their contingents completely out of the confluence?

    Parent
    So that after they can pull a Gore (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:44:56 PM EST
    and complain that the Clintons did not work hard for them, when Gore explicitly did not want them to work for him.  

    Parent
    A caveat (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:23:13 PM EST
    I'm not too crazy about some people in the Clinton contingent. I don't mean supporters, I mean her team. And it's not just Mark Penn, it's all the leaks and infighting among her inner circle, always fighting to be the ones closest to power. It's the same today as it was while Bill was in the White House. Obama's campaign is more disciplined and I like that.

    But the Obama campaign should remember that it's not just about her, but about the millions of Democratic voters who voted for her. We've never had a primary this close, those who voted for her should be respected.

    Hmm, I've read that Edwards and his wife are divided over who to support. Maybe an interesting balance could be reached if he offered Obama his delegates on the condition of picking Hillary as VP. I also don't think it would be a bad idea if Hillary's delegates demand the VP post as a plan B since she cannot reach him in delegates now.

    Parent

    Let's keep the people out of politics (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:57:24 PM EST
    Oh those pesky voters.... all that positive energy directed at putting two people they are enthused about on the same ticket (VoteBoth)... just think, a little something for everyone... but no the politicians get upset any time the little people think it's their perogative to say who is elected to office in this country.  Better damp down on that or the next thing you know the people will be thinking they have a right to set policy in this country.

    God! (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by rafaelh on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:58:21 PM EST
    You know, I had heard that thing before about Democrats always managing to screw things up but I really cannot believe how hard we are trying to make things easier for McCain. I just read that post in Dkos and could not believe it.

    The only thing that would save the Republican party is if we stay divided. It seems we are ready to oblige.

    Class (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:59:43 PM EST
    Someone is testing the waters, or it's like I thought, Obama is so weak, he got all these guys to support him, promised lots and now they are all free agents.  He could not manage his preachers, watch him manage a bunch of Dem Hooligans.  I was gonna say thugs, but then realized that there would be outrage.  

    hey, I've already been called (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:11:14 PM EST
    a hypocrite once today.   Let's say it: they are thugs.  They keep trying to bully Clinton out of this thing, and the longer she stays in, the more this kind of trash talk ratchets up.  NO ONE has called them on it (except a bunch of ladies, not "real" people) and so they keep on doing it.  (I invoked the Stanford Prison Experiment earlier and it seems even more appropriate now)

    Iif Obama really thinks he's got this wrapped up, what political capital would it expend to tell people to stop this crap?  Can you imagine what people like you and me, Stellaaa, would say if he took a stand on this?  Told Kennedy and Cohen, et al, to keep things civil?  Why, we wouldn't have much to say, would we, because we'd find no fault in the act.  We might even see Obama a tad differently if he did.

    The answer is that, without the crap, without the character assassinations, etc, he loses even more.  He only started winning when he went after her carotid.  If he really thought he had this thing wrapped up, he would be defending her.

    Parent

    Get a look at the Foreign Policy expert (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:21:40 PM EST
    How do you know if Barack Obama is unhappy with what you're saying-- or not saying? At meetings of his closest advisers, he likes to lean back, put his feet on the table and close his eyes.
    Wolfe Article with picture

    Well, lets see, his experience was in a Moslem country, look at his feet on the desk,  that is a major insult and one of the most basic vulgarities.  Yep, the super duper world sensitive Kerry pick, basically gives the finger to the Moslem world.  And Wolfe thinks it's cool.  Yeh..oh yeh.  

    Parent

    PS, he would have learned (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:23:29 PM EST
    that as a child if he grew up in a Moslem country.  I know he was not in Moslem country, but speaking with reporters, he the presumptive president, cannot have images like that floating.

    Parent
    I knew that (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:32:36 PM EST
    from watching Kathy Griffin.

    As John Kerry said, Obama will send a message to the Muslim world!

    Parent

    Well he just did (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:36:01 PM EST
    yikes, now he will have to kiss and hold hands with the Saudi Princes.  

    Parent
    Better for Obama if (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:27:52 PM EST
    Clinton keeps on keepin' on:

    LA TIMES


    Parent

    Hahaha! (none / 0) (#66)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:34:49 PM EST
    "The Democratic race now moves to West Virginia," Jay Leno noted the other night. "Today, Hillary Clinton claimed she always wanted to be a coal miner. But those dreams were dashed when she was forced to attend Wellesley and Yale."

    Someone said that here already--it would be humiliating for Obama to lose to someone not even on the ticket.

    On the other hand, Cheney lost to a dead man and he got to be VP...

    Parent

    Well, didn't they want her to lose (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:05 PM EST
    to uncommitted in MI? She should have suspended and let Karma have at it  ;)

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#71)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:36:23 PM EST
    but John Ashcroft did, and he got to be Attorney General.

    Parent
    We In MO Are D@mn Proud That We (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:05:07 PM EST
    the good sense to elected a dead man instead of Ashcroft. Of course, we hoped he would just fade away and not become Attorney General.

    Parent
    Girls keep some bags packed (none / 0) (#74)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:37:17 PM EST
    cause they are going to send us to re-education camp if he wins.  

    Parent
    Ha. We will all be renditioned to an (none / 0) (#117)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:50:21 PM EST
    as yet undisclosed location not on U.S. soil.  I vote for Crete; haven't been there yet.

    Parent
    Love Crete... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:08 PM EST
    and you get tskoudia, (greek grappa with every meal)

    Parent
    Lordy, just makes Obama look weak, this goof is (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Salt on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:02:40 PM EST
    going to demand...his wife wont let him choose, Kennedy no way the B gets on the ticket, the agenda behind these behavior escapes me if these are supporters.

    that's why the establishment ran him (none / 0) (#28)
    by Josey on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:07:12 PM EST
    to "beat the B---h!" - Obama's theme song.


    Parent
    BTD (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:04:01 PM EST
    forget about Obama having any chance in the general election.

    It's over. Done. Finito. They just can't quit at this point.

    The creative class and AA's can get their 40-45% of the vote totals in Nov. and be happy.

    Obama seems to think he can win (none / 0) (#31)
    by Josey on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:10:52 PM EST
    by registering a zillion voters.


    Parent
    yeah (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:12:53 PM EST
    but he's not counting the zillion already registered that aren't going to vote for him.

    Parent
    I agree with the dumba-s rep (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by RalphB on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:06:20 PM EST
    that Hillary should not be VP on the ticket, though for completely opposite reasons.  In fact, in view of the campaign ran against her, I hope she does not even campaign for him.  She and Bill should sit this out and laugh when he loses.

    Of course, I'm an independent and could care less if the democrats win or not.  Obama will never be my choice for president.

    Too many statements from Dems supporting (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:07:11 PM EST
    Obama have been made rejecting the idea of Hillary as VP for me not to believe that this has Obama's approval. Obama could have stopped this if he wanted to do so.

    Have you not heard? (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by GMN on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:08:31 PM EST
    The Obama supporters are building a new Dem party.  We older white folk are no longer needed.

    Every (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:10:59 PM EST
    time I think the Obama campaign c, Obama himself, or one of his supporters can't be dumber - they manage to fool me.

    Sexism, pure and simple.  These guys have such knee jerk reactions to thinking of a woman in power, they lose all reason.

    What else could it be?

    What if Hillary isn't interested either? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by s5 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    I came across this bit today:

    Also on "Fox News Sunday," Clinton's top strategist, Howard Wolfson, said that "We think Sen. Clinton is going to be the nominee," and that he has "seen no evidence of her interest" in the No. 2 slot.

    If true, then the idea of a unity ticket is dead on arrival, an idea that no one wants, except for a subset of supporters.

    Assuming Obama is the nominee, I've always felt that Clinton would be far more effective as Senate majority leader than as VP. She'd certainly be a thousand times better than Reid.

    So much better if she says it (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:26:57 PM EST
    Than if Obama supporters START A MOVEMENT to stop it.

    I hope you can see that.

    Parent

    She should do what? (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by feet on earth on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:02:36 PM EST
    She has all responsibilities and he none?

    She is now the one that has to stop the insurgency on an  Obama's movement?  This is squarely in Obama's corner.

    She has got a race to run, and then she does whatever she does.

    She has earned the right to chose.  

    Parent

    Whether she says it or not (none / 0) (#98)
    by s5 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:46:06 PM EST
    People are still going to talk about it. You call that a movement; I call it supporters on either side independently coming to their own conclusions. Either way, a unity ticket is almost certainly a non-starter.

    Maybe once we have a nominee, it will be more obvious what we'll need to do to reunite the party. If people speculate on the unity ticket idea and get their heart set on it as the only way to unite the party, there will be lots of disappointment if it doesn't pan out.

    And while I think it's good to float the idea as a possibility, other ideas for unity should be actively explored as well, especially as it becomes clear than neither Hillary nor Obama are interested in sharing a ticket. What if the CW becomes "the only way to reunite the party is through a unity ticket", but then both candidates decide that they don't want it? The result is that the attempt at unity would be seen as a failure, with months of "dems in disarray" headlines all over again.

    Parent

    Are you under the impression (none / 0) (#163)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:04:42 PM EST
    anyone, except maybe BTD, "has their heart set on" the idea of a joint ticket?

    Parent
    seems like (none / 0) (#132)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:52 PM EST
    she's damned if she does, damned if she doesn't


    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#173)
    by MichaelGale on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:07:36 PM EST
    This tale is turning into the next crisis for the anxiety addicted Obama flowerer.

    She should cut it off right away and stop the radical reaction.

     

    Parent

    Hon? (none / 0) (#198)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:27:23 PM EST
    They already started the movement...

    And part of me thinks that they did in order to protect him from having to ask...and then get rejected.

    Parent

    I just saw Carl Bernstein blabbing about ... (none / 0) (#205)
    by Ellie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:42:50 PM EST
    ... how Obama didn't want Clinton as VP because it would take people back [to one of the worst times ever].

    But "she'll do anything and say anything" to be on a ticket and knowing her, she might wear Obama down and he'll HAVE to put her on it.

    (My sister sent the clip but I didn't see the chiron.)

    Parent

    Neither clinton nor Obama (3.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Ben Masel on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    have demonstrated an ability, nor inclination, to lead in the Senate.

    Parent
    In Illinois there is talk that (none / 0) (#95)
    by gabbyone on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:09 PM EST
    Senator Durbin is hoping to be the next Senate
    Majority Leader.  I have also heard that it is kind of the kiss of death to run for President and
    come back to the Senate and expect a higher position.

    Parent
    He's the second most powerful Dem in (none / 0) (#111)
    by tigercourse on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:43 PM EST
    the Senate. It's fairly likely tha he'll be the next Majority leader. I've never thought that Clinton had even a small chance of getting that post.

    Parent
    If he does kiss lending reform goodbye (none / 0) (#129)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:56 PM EST
    the guy is on the take with the lenders.  Talks a big game about housing but gives it all to the banks.  No reforms.  nada.  

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#133)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:54 PM EST
    Clinton just barely loses (if she loses) the nomination for President of the United States, but she has not a shred of a chance of making Senate majority leader.

    Hmmm.

    Parent

    Are Obama's supporters (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:25:20 PM EST
    trying to convince Clinton's supporters not to vote for him?  I keep wondering if they're holding a contest for the most insulting slam at her.  Maybe the winner gets an iPod.

    No, they just don't want to be beholden to them (none / 0) (#105)
    by Salt on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:51 PM EST
    the flick recall, but you can come to Obama he just not going to come to you.

    Parent
    I would say (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:11 PM EST
    that I wish them good luck with that, but the truth is I don't wish them good luck at all.

    Parent
    I have (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:27:12 PM EST
    never seen anything like this stuff.

    There is something very fishy going on here in the Democratic party.  Beyond obvious reasons, there is a faction that really wants the Clintons out, and they are trying to hijack this nomination process by whatever means necessary.

    Is it because Bill was impeached? Maybe they can't have a competant woman in power who will actually demand some accountability from them?  What monied interests are behind this?

    what do you all think?

    I'm new at all this (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by befuddled on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:40:28 PM EST
    I wandered into the political blogosphere while looking for elements to put into a conspiracy theory for a computer RPG, no joke. So what better than an election year and that Cliff Notes Rack of conspiracy theories, YouTube. Well. I wish I had paid more attention in the past, I have learned so much from posters here; but I'll just say it seems very strange to me too. :) Too much YouTube! Seriously, there are a lot of inexplicable maneuverings.

    Parent
    Unless you are checking out... (none / 0) (#203)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:32:18 PM EST
    old Muppet Show clips, West Wing clips, random Boston Legal clips, or Nora the piano playing cat...oh...and the skateboarding physics prof and and The Puppy Song (my favorite), best to dodge the YouTube phenom.

    The political wankery going on over there is beyond weird.

    Parent

    Very simple. (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by oldpro on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:39 PM EST
    Class war.  How dare that wrong-side-of-the-tracks trailer-trash Bill Clinton become president when Ted Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle etc. etc. couldn't get to the top...and they ARE the top! (Socially...the Washington elite).  But LOSERS.

    Then, Bill Clinton's WIFE is likely to win the presidency against all those insider 'guys'...only way to beat her is find a candidate who can tag them with racism and split off the black vote.

    Whaddya know...Barack Obama...only too willing to run after all.

    Parent

    I think that's probably one of the better (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:51 PM EST
    assessments of this race that I've heard.

    Parent
    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by AX10 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:06 PM EST
    The intellectual/establishment left cannot stand the Clinton's because they came from nothing to where they are today.
    I would also say that many on the left cannot stand that Clinton is both an intellectual and a "bubba".  I know of many on the left who are predjudiced against the working class.  For those intellectual elites, they cannot stand (or believe) tha Bill Clinton can be from a working class background and be so smart.  In their view point, working class people are lowly and do not have the means to care for themselves.

    Parent
    BWA (none / 0) (#143)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:57:36 PM EST
    Bubbas with attitudes!

    Parent
    This is one conspiracy theme (none / 0) (#157)
    by befuddled on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:01:59 PM EST
    The class war. Sometimes it's the Bilderbergers or the Illuminati, those old standbys which are now hopelessly comingled but both are basically "Rich White Guys Rule the World" with versions where the white part is replaced. Another is the religious war with the endtime, antiChrist group vs. everyone else. However, get a grip. What is the evidence of a conspiracy? Palomino above had the same feelings that others have voiced. These intuitive feelings are thought to represent subliminal pattern recognition. Try that approach.

    Parent
    Maybe he sincerely thinks it would be a bad idea? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:28:51 PM EST
    >What is wrong with some Obama supporters? Are they intent on losing in November by keeping the Democratic Party divided?

    Plenty of Obama supporters say the exact same thing about Clinton because she's refusing to concede immediately.  Or because a certain percentage of her fanbase seems determined (at least now) to hold the party hostage to her demands and vote GOP if she isn't made the nominee.

    It's weird to think that we need more bipartisanship in an internal nomination process.  But that's kind of where we're at.  Obama Dems and Clinton Dems almost see one another as separate parties, and it's worrisome.  I don't quite know how these animosities are going to be resolved, on both sides.

    Let's suppose he does (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:30:11 PM EST
    Here's what he does - writes a PRIVATE LETTER to Barack Obama about it.

    Do I have to spell out everything to Obama supporters?

    Sheesh.

    Parent

    Obviously you do (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:39:59 PM EST
    have to spell it out to them, but even then it doesn't seem to do any good, as they choose to ignore it and pursue their "but we are riiight!" course of action.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:17 PM EST
    you do have to spell everything out.

    Don't you know he's going to magically get 50 states in Nov. if he's the nominee? It's going to be the largest bestest mostest "progressive" movement ever to hit this country!!! Like WOW!!!

    Obviously you haven't been annointed with the fairy dust yet./snark

    Parent

    Please Stay Current (5.00 / 5) (#179)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:13:20 PM EST
    Obama will win 57 states in November.

    Parent
    I was thinking the same thing!!!! 50 states!!!1!! (none / 0) (#123)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:12 PM EST
    Except I wasn't.  No one is.  Keep saying it, though, if it makes you feel better.

    Parent
    Um (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:04 PM EST
    yep, plenty of Obama supporters have told me this. I guess the fairy dust is some heavy duty stuff.

    Parent
    Well those people are idiots. (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:16:11 PM EST
    They're one of the reasons I stuck with Clinton as long as I did, to be honest.

    I do sometimes envision a modest Democratic landslide of 35-40 states in November, regardless of candidate.  But then the alarm goes off and it's time to get up and go to work.

    Parent

    Yeah, that's how you publically pressure someone (1.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:47:48 PM EST
    I'm sure Cohen thinks he's being extremely helpful by publically voicing the impolitic and ungenerous things that some people think need to be said.  I tend to doubt that the Obama campaign agrees, as right now they're desperate to defuse the pressure between their side and the Clinton camp, not amp it up.  Cohen and others aren't making it easy for them.

    I just think it needs to be said that not every pro-Obama quote was personally emailed from David Axelrod, despite what TalkLeft may think.  Sometimes people speak extemporaneously, which is always a bad idea for politicians I think.  Anyone who employs professional speechwriters is bound to blow it when they work without a rhetorical net.

    And yes, I know you can't defuse pressure.  It was a crappy metaphor and I apologize.

    Parent

    Lies get you nowhere with me (none / 0) (#168)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:25 PM EST
    I am the person who thinks the Obama camp sent Emanuel out to slap down Kennedy. I PRAISED them for it.

    I am POSITIVE Cohen is NOT acting at the behst of the Obama camp.

    And now I see you are a liar.

    Do it again and you are gone.

    Parent

    He probably does think it's a bad idea (none / 0) (#69)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:35:49 PM EST
    but so what?  It's pointlessly insulting to say it.  Cohen's a politician.  He ought to have learned by now that spouting off every thought that comes into his head, however sincerely believed, is moronic.  Seriously, what does Obama gain from this pettiness?

    Parent
    You're right (none / 0) (#84)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:39 PM EST
    Obama should never have opened Cohen's mouth in the first place.

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:02 PM EST
    set up these rules and Obama will have to live with them. According to Obama's rules, if a surrogate or supporter says something it's the same as the candidate saying it himself. So yes, Obama did say it by his own rules.

    Parent
    To quote Number Six: (none / 0) (#118)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:51:23 PM EST
    "Has anyone ever seen these rules?"

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:20 PM EST
    don't remember Obama's campaign setting up these rules back in Nov. when Billy Shaheen talked about Obama's drug use? Why, it was the same as Hillary Clinton spouting those words. Or when Cuomo said "shuck and jive"? It was the same as Hillary saying them. The screams of racism came right from the Obama campaign and they were calling Hillary a racist for these statements. Live by the Obama rules, die by the Obama rules. When you start something like that don't be surprised to see it blow up in your own face.

    Parent
    Re: You (none / 0) (#139)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:11 PM EST
    Okay, fair enough.  Could you post one of these statements from the Obama campaign calling Hillary Clinton a racist?  I'd appreciate it, thanks.

    Parent
    Jesse Jackson (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:19 PM EST
    Jr. said it after Obama lost NH. Screeching about how she "didn't cry for Katrina victims." Ugh.

    Parent
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#176)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:10:11 PM EST
    He is indeed the national co-chair for Obama.  If he said that, then he was and is wrong.  Crap like that needs to be stopped on both sides.  Thank you for bringing this up to me.

    Parent
    That being said... (none / 0) (#177)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:11:52 PM EST
    ...I don't think this qualifies.  Cohen is not the national co-chair of anything.  I think he was just speaking to hear himself talk.  But that's just my opinion.

    Parent
    I'm not implying (none / 0) (#108)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:32 PM EST
    that Obama had anything to do with it.  If I had to bet, I'd guess Cohen did this all on his lonesome.  But this certainly doesn't help Obama, and Cohen, as a supporter, ought to know that and keep his mouth shut.

    Parent
    I agree. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:54:40 PM EST
    ....

    No, seriously.  I agree.

    What?  I'm not always contentious...

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#170)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:46 PM EST
    not always.  :)

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#77)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:39:51 PM EST
    it's time to say they should not be resolved until years later when neither one is the nominee.

    Parent
    Neither one is the nominee? (none / 0) (#116)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:52 PM EST
    Kucinich/Gravel '08!

    (Although the Gravel camp is still grumbling that it should be Gravel/Kucinich since he was more experience...)

    Parent

    a lot wrong with many Obama supporters (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by pluege on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:09 PM EST
    "What is wrong with some Obama supporters? "

    there's a lot wrong with a lot of Obama supporters not the least of which is many with their obscene, irrational hatred of Hillary Clinton, greater in their hatred than all else and all consequences.

    Mark Cohen (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Pat Johnson on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:43:06 PM EST
    How does "The One We Have Been Waiting For" expect to "unite" with "hope" for "change" both the Dems and Repubs when the split in his own party is widening due to people like this idiot Cohen and moron Kennedy assist in making it wider?  They must honestly believe that we "racists" and "old folks" must be stupid enough to just get in line should he achieve the nomination.  I definitely am not!  The insults that have been thrown at this segment of the base has had it.  

    C'mon, he's just "bitter" (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by mg7505 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:01 PM EST
    I honestly thought the labeling and trashing would stop now that they perceive her as being out of the race -- but instead they're just dancing on her grave, and every day someone new joins in.

    This is the same kind of boys club shenanigans that labeled her a Nurse Ratchet etc. Once I asked an Obama supporter who used that label what happened to the popular guy who attacked Nurse Ratchet. Oh yeah, he had his moment, died, and we were back to square one.

    Where is Tina Fey when we need her? Nurse Ratchet is the new black!

    Casey and Cohen (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by karen for Clinton on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:32 PM EST
    Must still be mad that she had the nerve to win PA by 10.  AWWWW too bad.

    Anyway, Clinton is used to these remarks.  Rude, sexist, utterly insulting, devisive, lies, smears, outright kneecapping, she's had it all constantly, daily from politicians and pundits.

    You can't turn on a TV set or open a newspaper for this past year without reading somebody saying something about the demise of Clinton.

    We'll she's doing pretty damn good despite them.

    Maybe because of them even.  She knows she's better than that, and unfortunately for Obama - so do her voters who have known her for decades.

    This guy ain't fit to carry her luggage.

    amen (none / 0) (#208)
    by tedsim on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:03:13 PM EST
    You are so right!!!

    Parent
    Even if I wanted to (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:57:55 PM EST
    I wouldn't even think for a second they could be saved from themselves.

    They can't.

    And I wouldn't want to.

    They'll never learn until they lose.  And even then they won't learn.

    From what I have seen ... (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by coolit on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    Obama seems to act invincible at this point.  He acts like he is pre-ordained to be in this position and anyone getting in his way is sabotaging the Grand Plan.  It's like Roger Clemens.  Everything has always gone perfectly, so don't even consider that something you have done is gonna go wrong.  

    Because of this, I really think that he is gonna make a huge error picking a VP.  It will be someone that is not gonna help him at all, and make him seem like a weaker candidate.  

    Hillary has all the reasons not to accept VP (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by felizarte on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:02:19 PM EST
    Michelle Obama has publicly voiced total disdain for both Clintons.
    Obama surrogates are publicly rejecting and insulting her.  Even if she has repeatedly stated that she will "campaign her heart out" for the Dem. party nominee, even if it is Barack, and see what she gets.

    As a Senator, she can make sure that the bill that gets sent to the president for signature, is her and Edwards' Universal Health Care.  Pelosi will of course try to frustrate her, but she will at least get the credit for trying.

    Well, leaving (5.00 / 4) (#166)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:05:10 PM EST
    is helpful actually.  You see, most of us have been Democrats longer than alot Barack supporters have been alive.  We understand  the Democratic party history and traditions.  We fought the initial civil rights battles - for minorities and women, we fought for labor unions, and worker's rights.

    We are told that there is a "new coalition" now, and we see our party imploding.  There is what seems to be, a hostile takeover.  The backbone of the party, women, the working class, other minorities, are no longer valued.  

    We need to send a message.  Our vote is the way to do it.

    so what do we do? (none / 0) (#171)
    by coolit on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:07:21 PM EST
    vote mccain
    vote obama
    vote 3rd party?
    not vote?

    Parent
    I can't tell anyone what to do (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by Kathy on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:17:19 PM EST
    Speaking for me, I'm going to be in Europe come November.  But, I have that luxury because I am from Georgia, which no dem has a chance at winning this election. I don't know how I'd feel if I were in a swing state.

    I think there needs to be some wake-up call.  This new dem party Brazile and Axelrod are touting seems to have very different values from the one I grew up with.  I know there are staunch party loyalists here, and I respect that because I once was one, too (though sometimes I don't get the same respect back).  I have voted straight dem for more years than I care to admit.  I guess I have the same feeling the NRA would have if a bunch of anti-gun zealots took over their party.  Maybe I'm too old for this crap, but I can't support a group that does not support me.

    Everyone has to make their own decision, though.

    Parent

    I'm more convinced (5.00 / 4) (#207)
    by hookfan on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:58:21 PM EST
    that one option is to leave the party, form a united voting bloc of independents, and negotiate with both parties to see who will give us what we need and want before deciding the vote. Keep our money. Keep our activities. Keep our votes officially on hold. The swing voters hold great sway if we can form a united bloc. Nothing is weaker than a single voter. But a bloc-- now your talking. Perhaps Hispanics, Asians, Older women, and white working class will fight condescending elitism from both parties by standing together. We could be the largest special interest group in the nation.
       I'm tired of being abused, taken for granted, and abandoned.

    Parent
    First thing (none / 0) (#202)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:31:54 PM EST
    I am doing is registering as an Independent.  

    Beyond that, you need to decide what you can live with.  

    I have decided that the best the Democrats can expect from me is to write in Hillary Clinton. Beyond that I might vote for McCain, if Obama keeps screwing up, which he is won't to do.  I also feel a message must be sent to the DNC, and some Democratic party leaders.

    I doubt that I'll sit home, since I have some downticket Dem issues to be decided.

    Parent

    Good Lord (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Blue Jean on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:06:37 PM EST
    I hope they shut him down.  And fast.

    We have been told (5.00 / 3) (#178)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:12:17 PM EST
    by your own Donna Brazille, that we aren't wanted in the party.  If that's a problem for you, see Donna.

    I don't think anybody owns (none / 0) (#189)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:18:52 PM EST
    Donna Brazile, but she is a member of the DNC.  I don't hold Obama supporters responsible for her words, but do hold her accountable.

    Parent
    She's a LEADER of the DNC (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:20:24 PM EST
    She speaks for the DNC.

    Parent
    He's right. She shouldn't be VP (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by goldberry on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:23:53 PM EST
    The ONLY way a unity ticket will work is if she is at the top.  Women are not so simple minded that we will be "appeased" with the consolation prize, so dispel that notion from your brain right now.  She is a better candidate than he is without question. He is the token male compared to her wealth of knowledge and experience.  
    We would know we are being cheated and she'd be stupid to take it.  
    It's just as stupid to assume that leadership of the senate could be a substitute. She's not settling for second.  We'd lose all respect for her.  
    But without her at the TOP, the party is doomed.  The focus will be at the TOP of the ticket and that is where she will outshine him.  If it's unity you want, you have to put her first.  Most voters will resugn themselves to the idea thar Obama should wait.  He's not ready anyway.  
    You guys should just stop trying to shape the ticket with her in the second spot.  We, especially working women, will just laugh at you.  We are up to playing hardball if we have to.  We do this everyday anyway.  We're a lot tougher than you think.

    Canadian Dem, seetee, sleeper et al (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:26:41 PM EST
    I assume you came here spoiling for a fight with the infamous Armando of lore.

    You got it and an intellectual whipping in the process. Do not bait me or other commenters again in the future. You will not be engaged, merely deleted, suspended and if necessary banned.

    You are all on probation. Behave better or go.

    Obama already irreparably hurt the party... (5.00 / 4) (#204)
    by goldberry on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:33:55 PM EST
    ... when he let sexist remarks go unchallenged and spread rumors that the Clintons were racists.  Racsist compared to whom, exactly?  MLK himself?  If you want to know who destroyed the party, you need look no further than Obama himself and Donna Brazile.  I've never been a racist in my life until this year when it was convenient to Donna to attribute all of my qualms about Obama's readiness to racism.  Oh, and I belong to the "creative class" but I consider anyone not making boucoups millions per year as working class.  But she says the party doesn't need me.  Well, I've been a Dem since 1980, my first presidential election, but I am no longer a Dem.  I never thought I'd say that.  but if the Dean Democrats are so intent on throwing away the REAL transitional agent of change for a neophyte who knows virtually nothing and has been handed everything, and then feels comfortable calling me a racist, well, then, I am unaffiliated as of last Thursday.  I don't have to put up with that $%@#.  I have a free will, dignity and self esteem.  Let them come to ME and beg me for my vote.  Nothing in this world is automatic.  

    Hijacked (5.00 / 4) (#209)
    by lily15 on Mon May 12, 2008 at 12:20:55 AM EST
    Something is so askew in this Democratic nominating contest that it begs the question... what is actually going on?  We must come to terms with the fact that it is possible  that many people have been bought off and are speaking in forked tongues.  If you have any doubt about this, reread DailyHowler.com.  Bob Somerby increasingly is using the term "bought off" to describe the liberal pundit elite and opinion makers who are knowingly trying to subvert the truth.  We are all so afraid to be labeled conspiracy theorists.  But what else explains the treachery we are witnessing?  How is it that Republicans have actually democratically picked a nominee, while Democrats are rigging their choice?  BTD....you are sensing with increasing alarm..the scope of this elaborate con job.  The race baiting by the Obamacons is a clue.  The complete dismissal of the democratic base other than African Americans, is also a clue. The lying is a clue.

    The principled thinkers are limited to a few...Paul Krugman, BTD, the folks at  Correntewire..Eriposte...Bob Somerby...The actual fighters in the Democratic party are being dissed while the weaklings are being empowered.  We must fight back.  The lights are blinking red...and danger is the only thing ahead of us. Now is when we must fight...the disaster looming ahead is probably beyond what we imagine...and I for one, do not think it is accidental.  Obama is the antithesis of unity.  We need only reread Animal Farm and 1984 to get an idea of where we are and where we are headed.  Many many Democrats are not on the side of democracy, unity, or  progressive values.

    Real leaders are needed to expose the fraud.  Too bad they are in such short supply.

    Thanks again to BTD for clear thinking and clear talking.  But we need to summon action.  Unequivocal opposition to this charade of the democratic process brought to us by Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, the DNC and all the Democratic elites who are trying to damage and weaken the Democratic party just as we are posed to be an actual force, is imperative.  We are being undermined. We are being hijacked. There is no doubt about it.

    I still believe that Hillary will be (4.50 / 2) (#17)
    by democrat1 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:00:08 PM EST
    the likely nominee because superdelegates want a GE winner above any thing else and Hillary is better positioned than Obama to win GE over Mcsame.  However if Obama is the nominee, they put enormous pressure on Obama to accept Hillary as VP, not withstanding the obnoxious Mrs Obama, because that is the only way he can win this election. But I don't know Hillary accepts VP slot.

    I hope (none / 0) (#72)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:37:04 PM EST
    Hillary stays as far away from these yahoos as she can.

    So if they ask her, I can envision her gracefully declining and saying "Are you people friggin' crazy?"

    Parent

    Mark Cohen is a character (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:47:50 PM EST
    It's funny that he's big on hope and change, because his claim to fame, other than being a down-the-line liberal and the caucus chairman, is pretty corruption. The story from a few years ago was that he would charge thousands of dollars worth of books to his House expense account.

    In any case, he's clearly wrong here.

    Chairman of what caucus? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:50:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Democratic Caucus (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:52:47 PM EST
    Yup, he's #4 in the PA House. This is him.

    Parent
    Oh good (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:55:03 PM EST
    He's near the end of his political career. That's good.

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    I wouldn't count on it (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:58:33 PM EST
    His father served on Philly City Council forever (until he died).

    As far as moving up in the political world is concerned. . .I doubt he'll ever be Speaker.

    Parent

    That's PA's problem (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:01:50 PM EST
    I figured him for some young buck trying to make nice with the Netroots.

    Parent
    still (none / 0) (#56)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:26:29 PM EST
    he just a state house rep. Small potatoes, really...it's not like a US Senator is saying anything like this.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#59)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:27:32 PM EST


    Parent
    LOL at the picture on his website.... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:59:54 PM EST
    ...For some reason the expression on his face makes me think of Falstaff from Merry Wives of Windsor.

    Parent
    I thought the same thing (none / 0) (#124)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:14 PM EST
    Don't want to be mean but he is not very attractive.

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    Then he'll never make Blue Dog. (none / 0) (#146)
    by oculus on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:12 PM EST


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    Maybe He is Considering Kerry's Strategy (none / 0) (#37)
    by Richjo on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:13:32 PM EST
    and he is going to ask McCain to be his VP.

    What is "embyonic" (none / 0) (#42)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:17:36 PM EST
    as in embyonic stampede of delegates

    from the dk post

    fluid?! (none / 0) (#54)
    by nycstray on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:24:47 PM EST


    Parent
    typo? (none / 0) (#126)
    by DFLer on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:31 PM EST
    or some kinda new net word?

    Parent
    I read.... (none / 0) (#73)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:37:14 PM EST
    ...Jeralyns posts, then I read yours under the auspices of being impartial, guy, you sow the seeds of division, hands down.

    What part is divisive in this post? (none / 0) (#76)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:38:15 PM EST


    Parent
    wow (none / 0) (#86)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:42:12 PM EST
    you're monitoring these fast and furious...

    Every post recently from you has been an us vs them meme...look at what they're saying, OMG can you believe what the Obama camp is trying to say or inject...yet every time this comes up it's some superD or apparent surrogate that does not speak officially for the Obama camp, yet you paint it to be the gospel.  That's all....

    Parent

    How about QUOTING what I wrote (none / 0) (#90)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:43:40 PM EST
    in THIS POST that you find divisive. I do not much care for divisive paraphrases.

    Quote what is divisive. Are you NOT capable of that?

    Parent

    your (none / 0) (#107)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:30 PM EST
    entire first paragraph is evidence of what I speak...

    "he vows to, get this, pressure the likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama to NOT choose Hillary Clinton:"

    He is a dem rep, not an BO rep...yet your incediary commentary riles the people up, OMG he said that BO won't even give her the respect of being that even....c'mon, be honest A

    Parent

    So my discussing (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:52:37 PM EST
    what OBAMA supporter Mark Cohen said is divisive, not what Mark Cohen ACTUALLY said?

    See I found this part divisive:

    "I do not think the "Vote Both" gambit will work. But it certainly bears watching, analysis, and in the judgment of many including myself, concerted opposition."

    That seems fine to you. tpo me it is YOU who are the divisive one when you condone such divisive comments.

    I am trying to get unity in the Party and you think that if do not mention the divisiveness of Mark Cohen Clinton supporters will not notice.

    That strikes me as rather insulting of Clinton supporters. I am pretty confident they are coming to their own conclusions. you seem to think I am some type of pied piper of divisiveness.

    Frankly, I see you as part of the problem.

    Parent

    Nothing left to say? (none / 0) (#158)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:02:19 PM EST
    Good. Never act this foolish again in a thread of mine.

    Parent
    you've (none / 0) (#114)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:49:32 PM EST
    capitalized NOT a few times here, again your emphasis is key.

    Parent
    Is this what you have to offer (none / 0) (#125)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:22 PM EST
    A critique of my capitalizing? Nothing more?

    Parent
    again (none / 0) (#135)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:55:36 PM EST
    as usual you ignore the issue and rebut in veiled staccato insults, I've tried to frame my opinion honestly, imho you frame your's for maximum traffic and outrage.

    Parent
    Ignored the issue? (none / 0) (#148)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:58:44 PM EST
    I asked you for a quote. So far your quote is I pointed out what Mark Cohen said.

    And I ask you again, is your argument that I should NOT have pointed pout what Mark Cohen said?

    Answer my question.

    Parent

    Still waitng FOR A QUOTE (none / 0) (#96)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:45:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Obama (none / 0) (#127)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:53:46 PM EST
    could stop this sort of thing in a New York minute if he wanted to.

    But he's a Chicago pol....so he won't.

    Parent

    Well? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:40:41 PM EST
    Don't leave me hanging. Give me an answer to my question please.

    Parent
    I'm not hitting refresh every 5 secs BTD (none / 0) (#88)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:42:46 PM EST


    Parent
    you are quick to make allegations (none / 0) (#91)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:44:24 PM EST
    but very slow to support your allegations.

    What is divisive in this post. QUOTES please.

    Parent

    A quote please (none / 0) (#99)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:46:08 PM EST
    You see how it works here. When you charge someone with something, you need to quote them.

    I quoted Mark Cohen. Can you quote ME?

    Parent

    Let me help you (none / 0) (#110)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:48:35 PM EST
    Here is my post:

    This is an amazing statement from Obama supporting Pennsylvania State Represenative Mark Cohen. After arguing the Presidential nominee should not be pressured to accept a Vice Presidential candidate not of his or her choosing, he vows to, get this, pressure the likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama to NOT choose Hillary Clinton:

    I do not think the "Vote Both" gambit will work. But it certainly bears watching, analysis, and in the judgment of many including myself, concerted opposition.

    Concerted opposition to what? Barack Obama will choose his nominee. Does Rep. Cohen plan to oppose such a decision by Obama? What is wrong with some Obama supporters? Are they intent on losing in November by keeping the Democratic Party divided? I know next to nothing about this PA State Rep, but what I see here indicates he is not very bright. I wonder what the Obama camp thinks of his actions and statements. Someone should ask them.

    What part of that is divisive?

    Parent

    IMHO (1.00 / 1) (#121)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:52:13 PM EST
    you're intellectually dishonest, clever but dishonest.

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:55:13 PM EST
    I quote my entire post and that makes me intellectually dishonest?

    You are a trip. What are you here for anyway? You want to make unchallenged attacks on me? You came to the worng site. There are other places where you caqn smear me with impunity. Do not think for a moment you can do it here.

    I asked you a simple question. You could not answer it.

    Parent

    I don't think that charge would hold up (none / 0) (#149)
    by MarkL on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:59:13 PM EST
    in a court of law or in the court of public opinion.

    Parent
    Correct me if I'm wrong... (1.00 / 1) (#167)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:05:17 PM EST
    ...because I'm reading a lot of blogs tonight and may be mixing things up.  But didn't this post originally end:

    "WHAT are Obama supporters thinking??"

    Although now that line seems to be gone.  That final sentence was something I found annoying upon first reading it.  ("Divisive" is probably pushing it though.)

    Was that how this entry originally ended?  I'm asking sincerely, if I'm wrong then please accept my apologies.

    Parent

    Is reading too much too ask? (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:16:03 PM EST
    You are wrong. Utterly wrong. I did NOT write that. No such line EVER existed. It is not "now gone." It NEVER WAS.

    The truth is elusive to many of you tonight.  Or you are liars. Which are you?

    do it again and you will be banned. Liars are not tolerated here.

    Parent

    Re: Is reading too much too ask? (none / 0) (#201)
    by Sleeper on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:29:34 PM EST
    Did I not go out of my way to stress that I was unsure of whether I was right or not?  And offer pre-emptive apologies if I was mistaken?  There's no need to jump down my throat to refute something that even I wasn't sure about in the first place.

    I don't see the point of lying to libel someone I do not know and will never meet.  The whole point of debate and discussion is to win points on merit, not by lying.  This is why I asked if that was how it originally read, and why I did not state that as a fact.  I wasn't "accusing" you of anything.  What would the accusation be, editing without a permit?

    Sorry, once again, for clearly offending you.  I thought perhaps you'd edited the original post for the sake of clarity and removed the one comment which I thought could have been considered remotely "divisive" to begin with.  Because nothing else in the post was divisive at all.  But apparently I read that comment elsewhere and confused blog posts.  So, third time now, apologies.

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#119)
    by CanadianDem on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:51:29 PM EST
    he vows to, get this, pressure the likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama to NOT choose Hillary Clinton:

    OMG, he actually vows to NOT do this, get angry fellow people, can you believe this isn't even an option!?!!?!?  Yes he's not an official campaign member, but can you believe he won't even consider such a thing, get angry folks!!!

    Parent

    Indeed (3.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:57:18 PM EST
    Your contempt for Clinton supporters is palpable. You think I can make them angry. this is so divisive of you. Your condescension and contempt for Clinton supporters is rather disgusting frankly.

    So far your argument is that I am divisive because I pointed out what Mark Cohen said. do you have any actual argument to make?

    Parent

    Hello? (none / 0) (#82)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:11 PM EST
    Cat got your tongue?

    Parent
    divisive must be (none / 0) (#83)
    by angie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:15 PM EST
    in the eyes of the beholder then.

    Parent
    Nothing to say now? (none / 0) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:41:56 PM EST
    Tell me, what part of this post is divisive? Cite what you find divisive?

    Parent
    BTD (none / 0) (#141)
    by sas on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:56:48 PM EST
    I think this person wants to get you going...baiting you.

    Parent
    Of course he is (none / 0) (#154)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:52 PM EST
    I am giving him what he wants.

    Unfortunately for him. he can not think his way out of a paper bag. and I am in the humor to expose his nonsense.

    He knows what he is objecting to - my pointing out what Mark Cohen said. And I point put he can not face the truth of the situation - to wit, Mark Cohen was divisive and he has not a word of condemnation for it.

    He stand exposed for what he is.

    Parent

    touche! (none / 0) (#164)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:04:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Just speaking for myself (none / 0) (#155)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:55 PM EST
    Not anymore.

    But that's just speaking for myself.

    The devil's deal is this.  The number of Clinton hating independents brought into the party will be greater than the number of Clinton loyalists who leave.

    Obama supporters are great at math, I hear.

    Can I ask you a question? (none / 0) (#156)
    by Nadai on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:00:55 PM EST
    What are you trying to accomplish here?  I assume you have a goal.  I'm just not seeing what it might be.

    Are the lies helpful? (none / 0) (#161)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:03:37 PM EST
    Who threatened to leaqve en masse? I refuse to leave My Party.

    you can not drive me away.

    Stop lying.

    TalkLeft is Jeralyn and me and TChris (none / 0) (#175)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:10:07 PM EST
    and we are publically and irrevocably committed to supporting the Dem nominee.

    You best be more careful what you write.

    I NEVER say Markos wrote something when I am referring to a Dkos commenter. do not do that again. I mean it.

    Parent

    Threatening the party? (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by bjorn on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:17:11 PM EST
    I am not sure what that means.  People are free to vote for who they want, how does free choice threaten the party?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#187)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:17:51 PM EST
    It's worrisome given that the guy was supposed to be such a uniter.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#188)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:18:13 PM EST
    I will not calm down.I have been labelled a racist, a hack, a Rovian and a Republican today by people who know better.

    Your commenting has been very bad at this site as a general matter.

    You have NO leeway to play with.

    Improve your behavior or be banned.

    Capiche?

    Parent

    Please, get real. The Obamanauts (none / 0) (#199)
    by MarkL on Sun May 11, 2008 at 10:28:29 PM EST
    at DK have been threatening to leave the party since January, if not earlier. Even today, they threaten to torpedo Clinton if she is the nominee.


    Parent
    Obama Supporting PA Rep Vows Concerted Opposition To Unity Ticket | 202 comments (202 topical)