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Friday Night Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:15:55 PM EST
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Taylor Marsh has a podcast of the Hillary Clinton blogger call this afternoon.

Clinton Town Hall in Oregon.

J is out for a while and I have to go myself for the next few hours. TChris might be around. Keep it nice please/

This is an Open Thread.

Comments now closed.

< A Blogger Call With Hillary Clinton: It's the Map Not the Math | Overnight Open Thread >

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    Friday Night Open Thread | 234 comments (234 topical)
    We need a response to the 32 of 49 states metric (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:19:45 PM EST
    Clinton has won more counties.

    Clinton has won more congressional districts (at least that's what I've read somewhere recently).

    These numbers should be precisely known and part of the debate ... so that they can be plastered all over the blogosphere just like the 32 of 49 metric.

    Specifically regarding number of counties won --- my own count has Clinton leading 1497 to 1304 (biased in Obama's favor - I put all the counties for KS, ND, and WA on his side of the ledger because I haven't been able to find data for these contests).

    Note to the Clinton campaign: Give us the numbers so that we have some ammo!

    Clinton has won more registered Democrats (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:45:51 PM EST
    this one really makes them sweat. Of course they deny it. But it's true.

    Parent
    That one is bogus. (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:24 PM EST
    My father is a political scientist(by education) and he scoffed at that.  More states?  Completely meaningless.  He said how about more counties?

    Parent
    Thanks for that feedback (none / 0) (#236)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:17:57 PM EST
    Just to keep the discussion going, the reason I think counties won is a good metric for the "will of the people" (which I've posted before) is ...

    Counting states is not granular enough; the popular vote requires adding apples (primary votes) and oranges (caucus votes); and the apportionment of pledged delegates has too many nondemocratic biases.

    County lines are fairly randomized historical artifacts and, nationwide, counties come in all sizes, population densities, demographic profiles, etc.

    Now, if the Clinton campaign would just cough up some audited numbers (so we don't have to do amateur hour), counties won would make a pretty good talking point.


    Parent

    immediate reply should be (5.00 / 2) (#213)
    by ghost2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:04:10 PM EST
    She has won the electoral college.  That is the best way to give proper weight to each state won.  Small states and big states.  Also, electoral college is how the constitution treats the importance of each state, and how they are weighed in presidential elections.  They are far more representative of one-person, one-vote principle.  

    She has won the most congressional districts (according to poster below).  Again, that's a very accurate way of gauging support.

    So, in the most democratic measure one-person one-vote which gets manifested in popular vote, electoral college, and congressional districts, she is winning.  

    Parent

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#263)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:58:51 PM EST
    I agree. The electoral college metric is one of the strongest arguments Clinton has.

    I'm harping on the counties won metric because I find Axelrod et al. so grating when they point out that Obama has won so many states (as if it means something). It is tremendously misleading to folks that aren't deep into the minutia of the campaign.

    Parent

    Are you sure that all those ... (none / 0) (#190)
    by Tortmaster on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:49:50 PM EST
    ... counties and registered Democrats are "important" counties and Democrats? How does she do against McCain amongst left-handers?

    Seriously, though, in a race to get to a specific number of delegates, I don't see the relevance of counties. I see the relevance of registered Democrats (if that information is true), but I also know that Obama brings a bunch of independents into the tent.

    We can't win the election with just Democrats.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#195)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:52:58 PM EST
    I believe Hillary is beating Obama with Independents, now.

    Parent
    He's been bleeding Indies and Repubs (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:53:58 PM EST
    When was the last time he went around bragging about them . . .  ;)

    unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be expanding his appeal and having it show up in the votes. Not a good sign for someone who has figured he has this nailed since he won all those caucuses and has all but been handed the nom by the media and DNC.

    Parent

    The relevance of counties won is ... (5.00 / 0) (#257)
    by dwmorris on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:43:19 PM EST
    See my other comment below.

    Counties won is more relevant than states won (an often used talking point from senior members of the Obama campaign) as a metric for the "will of the people."

    As I see it, the Obama campaign (with overwhelming enablement from the MSM) has tried to redefine winning from a "majority of delegates" to a "majority of pledged delegates" based largely on an argument that this is the best metric for the democratic preference of the voters. They throw out secondary metrics, such as states won, in order to bolster the claim.

    If we are going to argue to the super delegates about who should be declared the winner based on these sorts of metrics, then we should try to broaden the discussion to include many different relevant metrics rather than allow the focus to remain on those that support the argument that Obama has already won.


    Parent

    Sweetie (5.00 / 10) (#2)
    by OrangeFur on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:19:50 PM EST
    After reading a lot of comments (on other blogs) from people defending the use of "sweetie" in professional settings, I think they've convinced me that it's no big deal and can indeed be respectful.

    Isn't that why they salute female officers by saying, "Sweetie! Yes, sweetie!"?

    It is not okay (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:25:31 PM EST
    for him to use that, especially after hearing about Bush and his "terms of endearment," which as we all know, were meant to be familiar but diminutive.

    It shows poor judgment.  Again.

    Parent

    It is condescending (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:14:07 PM EST
    no doubt about it - along with calling someone esp. women "dear," and "honey."

    It used to drive me nuts when people called me any of those names, no matter if I knew them or not.

    Actually, I am sort of surprised that Obama who want's to be the "young" candidate, still has this habit of calling women "sweetie." His wife should have helped him get rid of this bad habit if that what it is.

    It really is an oldfashioned custom - something my grandmother's generation may have said. Come to think of it, it rarely happens to me these days. Most people got the message now that is inappropriate.

    Parent

    Change? (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Athena on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:19:23 PM EST
    Well, he represents "change" - resurrecting tired old slams against women - after we've fought hard to silence them.

    Parent
    It wasn't just the word... (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:17 PM EST
    .it was the smary way he threw that phrase off to the reporter.

    I LOVED her response..."this Sweetie never got an answer to her question...."

    And his "apology" was just baloney.  It's just something he does and he has to work on....Dooh!!!

    Parent

    Is it a Southern thing? (none / 0) (#90)
    by dutchfox on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:02:10 PM EST
    I used to hear "honey" and "sweetie" (and even "baby doll"!) when I lived in Texas.

    Parent
    Ok, Obama isn't Southern. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:08:10 PM EST


    Parent
    What's really funny is I think (none / 0) (#211)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:03:01 PM EST
    he said he had a habit of calling "people" sweetie.

    Parent
    Yeah, or Dick Durbin... (none / 0) (#227)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:11:48 PM EST
    What a stupid thing to say.

    Parent
    It is a Southern thing, but mostly to (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:44:51 PM EST
    friends and in casual situations. Not in the office or other workplace. The exception is the small business where everyone is a good friend. And the thing is that it is more women than men who use "Sweetie" or "Hon" when talking to people. I use it, but mostly with children. I figure "talking down" to someone who is shorter than me is ok.. I am 5'1". I do not like being talked down to by grownups. I take instant umbrage and let them know it is not acceptable. Even if it embarrasses them at the time. I just give them an icy look and say, "You don't know me well enough to address me in that fashion." They usually backpedal madly and apologize. I may be short, but I am formidable. Heh.

    Parent
    We have hon' (none / 0) (#242)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:24:44 PM EST
    here in B'more.

    But Obama's not from the South.

    Parent

    I'm from the South (5.00 / 1) (#251)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:34:56 PM EST
    and yes, we call people "honey" or "cher" (I grew up in NOLA, and "cher" is Cajun for the French "cherie"). Anywho, these terms of endearment are used ONLY in family/social settings OR by older people (usually grandmotherly types) toward younger people, but never, ever in the workplace among peers. Examples of times you might hear it not in familial or social setting -- if you went to the library, the elderly librarian might refer to you as cher when you checked out your books as in "Did you find what you were looking for cher?" or at the grocery store, the clerk might say, "Have a nice day, honey." There is a huge difference, imo.

    Parent
    I'd agree... (none / 0) (#256)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:43:07 PM EST
    I've been called hon...but only by other women. Can't say any guy has ever called me hon in a professional setting.

    I got sweetie'd a couple times by one of the much older men in one office...a WWII vet. That was years ago...and he was quite stuck in his ways and counting the days to retirement.

    Parent

    He needs to see (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:58:00 PM EST
    the movie 9 to 5.  Several times.

    Actually, I could line up a whole list of what the guys call "chick flicks" -- and documentaries on women's history -- that would educate him well.

    Parent

    And Tootsie (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:10 PM EST
    GAH -- I can't believe there are people (and by that, I mean young boys) in this day and age defending the use of "sweetie" in a professional setting. Obama really is talking us backwards here.

    Parent
    It TX (none / 0) (#177)
    by Leisa on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST
    if you call a gal a "sweetheart", especially  a "real sweetheart", you are insulting her...  it is worse than being called a B#@%!... it is probably the most condescending, veiled, cut down of all toward an outspoken woman.

    Parent
    Gal? (none / 0) (#226)
    by Spike on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:10:09 PM EST
    Is that term PC? No one I know would call a woman a "gal."

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#233)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:14:22 PM EST
    You have some funny ideas about language, you do.  I remember when you tried to suggest there was something offensive about using the abbreviation "AA" for African-American.

    Parent
    Cultural Differences (none / 0) (#264)
    by Spike on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:59:02 PM EST
    People in different places use different words. Where I grew up, you didn't refer to women as "gals;" it was considered demeaning. The way some people on this site refer to black folk as AAs also strikes me as odd, like a reference to an exotic species, not the neighbors across the street.

    Parent
    Sweetie... (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Cal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:19 PM EST
    ...is never appropriate to use in professional settings. If anyone who worked for me ever said it and I found out about it, they'd have been fired.  But then again, I didn't hire neanderthals.

    Parent
    For women too? (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:28:40 PM EST
    Just curious. I always thought it was the intent not the words. Depends on how it is said, which is always subjective, so better not to use terms of endearment at all I guess.

    Parent
    Casual versus professional. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:34:49 PM EST
    If you want to be seen as professional and respectful, then always use respectful terms of address.

    In casual use, I'd say it's up to everyone to use their judgment.  Some people may take offense, and then it's up to the speaker to remedy the situation.

    Respect and responsibility - that's what it's all about.

    Parent

    endearment (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by tek on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:39:36 PM EST
    If it is viewed as a term of endearment, it should be used in regard to private, personal relationships.  Other languages solve this problem by having familiar forms of pronouns.

    Parent
    BTW, I thinks Obama's use of sweetie (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:45:27 PM EST
    is completely inapprorpriate (just a little disclaimer)

    Parent
    "forced intimacy" (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:49:00 PM EST
    It takes two people who should be using a respectful form of address as non-intimates are forced into a false intimacy.  It's a constant source of stress for people in hospitality positions, they need to be open and accessible but not overly familiar.

    (OT - My sister's SO is Japanese born, but has been stateside forever.  At times he really yearns for the strict Japanese social customs that enforce respect and then he'll swing back to thinking those customs are too rigid and stifling.  He lives in oh-so-casual America, and somewhat amusingly West Virginia.  You'd need to understand hill folks and their ways to get the joke.)

    Parent

    It's more offensive than that (5.00 / 3) (#224)
    by rise hillary rise on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:09:38 PM EST
    Under the circumstances, BO calling a woman "sweetie"  is known as "putting her in her place." Arrogant, condescending, hmmmm...."elitist" maybe?

    Personally I thought the "I call everyone that" was a big bunch of BS. Wonder how that went over with Michelle.

    A corollary for those who don't get it, calling a grown woman "Sweetie" with whom you have no personal or professional relationship is much like calling an adult black male "b*y"--it's done for one reason and one reason only-making sure that the persona knows her (his) place-and stays in it.

    Parent

    We're not talking pronouns. (none / 0) (#17)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:43:02 PM EST
    Nouns.

    Nouns are a bit more descriptive, wouldn't you say?

    Parent

    I used to call my close female business (none / 0) (#52)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:29:27 PM EST
    associates "sweethear" and sometimes "sweetie" - but I'm a women and they knew I meant it.

    I would have never gotten anywhere without the work and committment of my secretary and associates.  And I truly loved them for it.

    Still do!

    Parent

    As a man and the father of a woman (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:40:55 PM EST
    I fail to see why he would have to use a term of endearment towards a person doing their job.  Or are we sugesting there is some personal relation or familiar relationship with this reporter.  Is she a niece, a cousin an old friend??

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 10) (#68)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:44:35 PM EST
    We can be confident he hadn't met her before.  She's from Michigan!

    Parent
    Well under the roolz of employement and (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:52:04 PM EST
    proper public behaviour the comment would border on harrasment.

    Parent
    Okay, funniest line of the night (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:00:27 PM EST
    goes to Steve M.

    So far. :-)

    Parent

    OMG - So funny!!!!! (none / 0) (#96)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Yeh, he got called out on "cutie," too (5.00 / 1) (#220)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:08:23 PM EST
    but must have a looooong learning curve.  This from last fall, as I recall?

    Obama: Sweetie to a Reporter But Also Cutie to Barbara Boxer?

    Obama called Barbara Boxer a "cutie".

    "Obama, speaking at the Westin St. Francis in San Francisco, raised eyebrows Monday at a fundraiser for Sen. Barbara Boxer when, as we reported, the Illinois Senator described his Democratic colleague from California as "a fighter, a leader, a charmer, a cutie.

    The remark "set off a lot of murmuring," said one Democratic strategist in attendance, "among a lot of very strong powerful women around Boxer there who were offended."

    The descriptive of a powerful feminist senator raised "a strategic question: is (Obama) ready for prime time? You don't call a U.S. senator a 'cutie,'" said the strategist, whose take was echoed by others. . . ."



    Parent
    He really is indefensible (none / 0) (#252)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:36:12 PM EST
    I'm flabbergasted.

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Cal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:55:40 PM EST
    Fine to use in non-professional situations.  Professional is a whole 'nother matter.  Terms of endearment used in the workplace can lead to a whole big mess of misunderstanding.  Best to leave them at home.

    Parent
    Absolutely not permissable in professional setting (5.00 / 1) (#262)
    by Ellie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:56:52 PM EST
    I've read several posters here using the personal gauge of whether it bothers them, mostly guys who don't mind the occasional stroke.

    But in a workplace shared by a lot of different personalities, it's not really one individual's call to make.

    We can't know everyone's tolerance level for such a term, even people we see regularly in familiar but non-casual environments.

    I give a lot of latitude to elders. From others, the unentitled expectation of ego-strokes adds an necessary chore in an already hectic schedule.

    I don't want my support staff calling co-workers or incoming clients "Sweetie" under any circumstances. I don't want them to think they have to tolerate that or worry they'll be pegged as "difficult".

    Uninvited diminutives and familiarity add to workplace stress. Striving NOT to using such a term is a tiny adjustment and is probably easy for many of us who like our terms of endearment to mean something.

    A fellow worker might not know whether it's a come-on. A GL person could be out privately but not at work and it's one of the dozens of times s/he has to have the moment of discomfort in a day. Someone might be going through relationship stress at home or entering a new one and feel awkward about announcing such things. You just never know.

    Even if someone in a position of authority or power (say, a new potentially huge client) says to me or support staff, "Call me Sweetie, everyone does!" I'd step in and set boundaries.

    Parent

    Your are better than me. (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    I really don't want to know how many people think that dismissive terms of address are perfectly okay.

    It helps me to believe that I am surrounded by wonderful, generous, respectful people no matter where I go.  It helps me to love my neighbors when I think they are teh best!

    BTW - my no more lies IMPEACH highly visible bumper sign has only gotten one flip of the bird and everything from honks and cheers to heartfelt hugs.  America is still good, at least in my reddish portion of Ohio.

    When it comes to the jerks in the world, I figure that they just can't help themselves and I can't help them.  I figure that if they are a jerks to me, they are jerks to everyone.  That way it's not personal.

    Parent

    BUSH LIES on my car. Mostly people look (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by leis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:42:10 PM EST
    to see who is driving the car, but nothing too bad.  Ohio here too!

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:33:25 PM EST
    Maybe if your professional setting is a truck stop.

    Parent
    My wife came up with the perfect bumper sticker (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:29:05 PM EST
    Now I'm Pissed, Sweetie

    Parent
    Chancellor Sweetie (none / 0) (#212)
    by LeftyFan on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:04:03 PM EST
    Would Obama refer to Angela Merkel, the Chancellor of Germany, as sweetie?

    Parent
    Very nice job, BTD. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:20:39 PM EST
    I'm listening to the call now.

    She's just a better candidate than Barack. He and Michelle have the potential to be a great team in the future.

    But they have a lot to learn.

    We all have learned a lot in this campaign.

    Go Hillary!!!

    Is Hillary's townhall (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:03 PM EST
    tonight in Oregon available to see at KGW.com?

    BTD, (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:26:36 PM EST
    I enjoyed hearing your voice and your comments. Now I just need to see what you look like. Has HRC done this before, because I thought it was a good way to get her message out first hand ina friendly manner.

    I am surprised the "sweetie" comment (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kenosharick on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:30:09 PM EST
    was not bigger news in the MSM. I should not be;they have covered up for him and worshipped the ground he walks on since Iowa. I also cannot get over how the party leadership is knowingly throwing this election away. If they care so little- they certainly do not need my vote or money anymore; I tell them that every chance I get.

    What if the media... (none / 0) (#31)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:30 PM EST
    stays with Obama the same way they stayed with Bush?
    I am very concerned that Obama will be a Democratic Bush.  Obama could be bad for the country.  McCain is not as bad as Obama.

    Parent
    Let me tell you (none / 0) (#50)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:28:57 PM EST
    Bush's threshold will never be crossed again. I'm am supporting HRC, but there is no way anyone including Obama will come close to Bush's incompetence.

    Parent
    Ohhhhh. I'm not so sure. (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:34:14 PM EST
    Obama's list of chief advisers scares me to death.  And since he has no personal knowledge about "his" own policies, I know who will be pulling the strings to this puppet.

    I mean...Jim Cooper?????

    Parent

    Look, I'm not happy about Obama as president (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:40:56 PM EST
    but I am telling you Bush is the worst hands down. It will probably take at least several generations to match his stupid, really stupid policies, gaffes, indifference, criminal activities, etc. The last one to come close was Nixon and even he wasn't as bad as Bush. Period! That said, Hillary could be one of the best, and as far as I'm concerned Obama is sloppy seconds.

    Parent
    My question has been and will continue to be (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:48:50 PM EST
    is Obama capable of reversing the damage done by the Bush administration?  I know Bill Clinton in 93-01 reversed the 12 years of damage of the previous administrations.  But this man has not shown me the capacity to stick to a task to its fullfilment yet.  He wavers and vacilates taking no firm position.  Worrisome, the only reason I will probably will vote for him if he is the nominee is because McBush has always scared me.

    Parent
    I'll admit (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:56:37 PM EST
    I've seen some troubling similarites like needing to take vacation, acting like he fraternizing when he's campaigning, gaffes, etc. His good old boy attitude, etc. These are all added reasons to why I support Hillary (besides the fact that she is ready and he has a long learning curve ahead of him). Can he reverse Bush's mess? Who knows if anyone can undo the damage that man has done in only 8 years. But anybody will be better and I pray to God there is a half of country left for the next gal/guy to try to salvage.

    Parent
    Lil...Unfortuately There Are Many Similarities (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:09:23 PM EST
    between gwb and bho...startingly so...lack of experience, lying, no foreign policy, shady relationships, gaffes (57 States), etc.

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/14/obamas-embarrassing-gaffes-continue/

    Parent

    Lil, Unfortunately gwb and bho Share Many Of (5.00 / 1) (#230)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:12:48 PM EST
    the same characteristics, such us telling untruths, gaffes, no foreign policy, etc.  Here are some of bho's greatest gaffes:

    http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/14/obamas-embarrassing-gaffes-continue/

    Parent

    endorsing McCain over Obama? (none / 0) (#106)
    by seesdifferent on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:36 PM EST
    you realize this is "Talk LEFT?"

    Parent
    yay! open thread (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:40:43 PM EST
    someone posted in here that Obama hired 400 bloggers to, i guess for the lack of a better term, infiltrate sites like this one, to bring us all to the light.

    is this true?  not really wanting to google anything obama as not to feed into the egomania.

    Sounds like a waste of money (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:21 PM EST
    I mean, we already get endless repetition of the same talking points from the genuine commentors.  Why buy the cow when you can have the mulch for free?

    Parent
    I got an email from "Ben" (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:52 PM EST
    Claiming that I said something offensive here at TalkLeft -- but he didn't quote it in context or link to it, so I don't know exactly what he's talking about.

    Anyway, he got my email address from my profile here (now removed) and used that phrase to launch into what was obviously a "set piece" of the sort that's been showing up all over in the last day or two.

    So, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there wasn't a blogger team of some size.

    I was pretty creeped out by it.

    Parent

    Hmmm. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:55:38 PM EST
    I have a good spam filter and my email is allowed senders only.

    The odds are good if I got anything, I'd trash it unread.

    Parent

    BTW if you get another... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:00:26 PM EST
    You can delete the content but save the header in case someone wants to look at it.  There's a wealth of information in the routing, if you know what you are looking for.

    Saw a couple near identical spams at one site - link anyone?  Basically "Wouldn't Obama drop out for Hillary if their positions were reversed?".

    yea-uh, right.  Pull the other one, it has bells on.

    Parent

    Gotcha Fabian (none / 0) (#30)
    by lookoverthere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:29 PM EST
    riverdaughter's The Confluence.

    It's kinda hilarious. We're trying to figure out the right nickname for new Rent-A-Trolls. "Sweetie" appears to be winning according to Teh Math.

    Parent

    It's the obvious pick. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:15:54 PM EST
    You could always alternate "Sugah" "Hon" or "Honey" and "Darrrrrling".

    Parent
    Ben (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    is making the rounds.  I have seen his name and his message being spewn about on riverdaughter's webpage.  her threaders are going him BIG TIME.

    WTF?  If Obama and Brazile don't care about white, rural voters, Hispanics (that would be me) and womer supporting Hillary, why do they care what WE say or think?

    Oh, forgot, they don't give a sh1t about the senior citizen voting bloc either.  All those young unz listening to the Black Eyed Peas are going to carry him to the White House.

    Parent

    gays and asians too. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:31:48 PM EST


    Parent
    Ben (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:33:13 PM EST
    Katie, do you have Ben's email or IP address? I'd like to see if he's registered on TalkLeft. If you do, don't out him here but email it to me. Or you could forward me the email he sent you.

    Parent
    I'll forward it to you (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:38:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Wasn't there a famous movie rat (none / 0) (#95)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:20 PM EST
    named Ben?  Just a thought as to how to deal with him.  Google up some lines from the film. . . .

    Parent
    Was he the kid w/the rats (none / 0) (#104)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:27 PM EST
    and then the rats ate him?

    Parent
    Willard was the kid (none / 0) (#152)
    by janarchy on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:27:25 PM EST
    Ben was the head rat. Michael Jackson even recorded a song about him for the film. It was creepy.

    Parent
    as i recall some bloggers over kos (none / 0) (#86)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:00:12 PM EST
    were trying to get email addresses and personal info to try and intimidate. not nice people!

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#123)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:13:24 PM EST
    That's way out of character. At least, it used to be.

    Dkos is a serious disappointment now.

    Parent

    I read that repsonse.. (none / 0) (#173)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:41:25 PM EST
    on another blog.  "Ben" was very patronizing to say the least.  It only made me more opposed to Obama.

    Parent
    Paid bloggers aren't new (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:02:41 PM EST
    they are probably just ramping up.  Either their training is lacking or they want McCain to win....  A new one arrived today... Only managed to reach four code levels on the pocket guide.

    Obama will be the nominee whether you vote for him or not. and  I've made a couple of millions from stock options.  Unless McCain decides to start the draft for middle aged millionaires, I think I'm safe.  Code Yellow (over confidence).

    The thing is with Obama supporters, we don't mind losing this election as much.  For example, I'd actually make money if McCain was elected.  I'm one of those latte sipping liberals who should be voting Republican anyway.  Code Green (tantrum).

    (as you know Hillary is vindictive)  and You don't want to be Black in any region where she has authority.  Hillary is very much on record as being one who holds grudges.  
    Code Red (attack).

    It's mostly Hillary supporters who care about Roe v Wade.  Code Orange (threat).

    But was creative enough to say the party should 'dump' the Reagan Dems.

    added in a couple of attacks on commenters here....And I know for YOU, race plays no role, but you have to admit that voting the way you described at least looks bad.

    and topped it off with....  How is my post violating site rules?  I'm speaking to the absurdity of the previous poster.  Oh I get, I'm not kissing Hillary's butt.

    He's a little warped... here's a special piece.


    Parent

    "How wonderful for you!" (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:13:50 PM EST
    "You must be SO proud!"

    This is what a female friend taught me that she says when she knows someone is excited about something that she unfortunately isn't.  Rather than try to come up with a relevant social lie to cover her true feelings, she just uses those two phrases.  The responses are polite, positive and most importantly, can cut off further discussion of the topic.

    So remember, be positive, be sincere - but don't actually discuss any of the topics brought up.  
    Turn.
    The.
    Page.

    Parent

    And, as the Southerners on this site (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:09 PM EST
    taught me:  Why, bless your heart. :-)

    (I have gotten through a stressful week at work by just thinking that in some meetings.)

    Parent

    Why bless your heart, sweetie ;) (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:01:27 PM EST
    might as well take it to the next level, eh? lol!~

    Parent
    You Northerners are funny (5.00 / 4) (#261)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:52:11 PM EST
    with your adoption of the "well bless your heart" -- it tickles me to no end! And, I have to tell you nycstray, you are really using it the right way here -- saying "well bless your heart" followed by something slightly (or not so slightly) negative -- like "Well bless your heart, it is so hard to lose that baby weight." (translation -- you are fat) Or "Well bless your heart, but you can't be falling for that old line." (translation -- you are a moron for believing it). It is a uniquely southern art to say something really negative about a person by making it sound like your almost paying them a compliment. As we say in the south, we'd rather walk on our own tongue before we said something negative about a person, BUT, bless his heart, Obama sure can say some idiotic things about women.

    Parent
    Yes it is (none / 0) (#20)
    by AX10 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:52:02 PM EST
    http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/05/obama-hires-400-new-bloggers-to-sway.html

    Parent
    Someone posted a link (none / 0) (#24)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:54:16 PM EST
    in another diary.  I'm sure someone knows it.

    I'm thinking that the only use they would be is to drive the Obama strays back into the herd.  I don't see any Clinton supporters suddenly seeing the light and coming to Obama.

    Maybe if they offered to wash my windows and the walls need a new coat of paint and I need some serious yard work done too.  Plus my "sweetie" and I haven't had a night off from the kids for months.

    Why pay people to blog when there are so much more they can do!

    Parent

    Just say no to egomania. Also say no to paranoia. (none / 0) (#108)
    by jerry on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:59 PM EST
    Last night I was accused of:

    a) being a paid Obama blogger
    b) being a TL noob

    Let's not get paranoid folks.  We all know the paid Obama blogger is (throws a 20 sided dice) Oculus.

    Parent

    that sort of thing is taken quite seriously (none / 0) (#120)
    by seesdifferent on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:10:58 PM EST
    and it is certainly false. Obama is not paying bloggers. Repeating this rumor is beneath reasonable folks.

    Parent
    ding ding ding! (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:16:39 PM EST
    we gotta winner!!!  how much are you paid sweetie dahling?  (big Absolutely Fabulous fan here)

    Parent
    You know the only way I could feel (none / 0) (#232)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:13:52 PM EST
    comfortable stating something like;  
    Obama is not paying bloggers.
      is if I was working for the campaign.  Otherwise I couldn't be sure of what Obama was or was not doing.

    Parent
    I just listen to the call and want to thank (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:53:40 PM EST
    Jeralyn and BTD. My thanks also go to CHDmom. She mentioned that Taylor Marsh had it on her site in an earlier thread here and I went over there right away. Listened to it together with my fav. human and feline ;-)

    What a great call that was!
    Hillary was absolutely amazing. The personal way she related to all the bloggers who asked qs - and how confident, detailed and thoughtful she was in her responses. This does not come as a surprise to me at all since I have admired her since 92.

    I also enjoyed putting a voice to the names that I have seen so often on the blogs.

    I missed Jeralyn but Armando was fabulous and sounds great. Everybody did really well with the comments and questions. Thanks alegre, Lance, katiebird, lambert ... and Hillary couldn't have a nicer guy than Peter Daou working for her.

    And thanks to Taylor Marsh for posting it (5.00 / 7) (#26)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:57:38 PM EST
    I was so rattled by the experience I didn't have a clear memory of it.

    Getting the chance to listen again with my family was wonderful.  It was a huge relief that interrupting Senator Clinton was a false memory.  I stewed about that all the way home.

    Parent

    You just had a fangirl moment. (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:06:14 PM EST
    I always figure that if I get to meet someone I really admire, I'll just memorize three sentences:

    I'm really glad to meet you!
    I really admire you for "X".
    Thank you!

    so I don't do anything to embarrass myself.  

    Parent

    Wow. I think I'll have (4.75 / 4) (#46)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:09 PM EST
    that tattooed on the back of my hand.  That's great!

    Parent
    I thought you were great; I was envious. (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Lil on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:33:52 PM EST


    Parent
    You did really well, katiebird (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by bridget on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:26:17 PM EST
    I can well imagine that you stewed about that later on. I would have done exactly the same.

    I also wanted to let you know that I am off to find the Chelsea video. I doubt I have seen that one. She speaks so well. Just like a Clinton ;-)

    Both Hillary and Bill must be so proud to see her campaign so well for her mother.

    Parent

    Here it is (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:29:23 PM EST
    I'm posting the blog link because one of the commenters was actually in the audience and she shared the experience.

    Parent
    You did a great job! (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:27:21 PM EST
    The only reason I knew you were nervous was because you said you were.  :)

    Parent
    It's funny how memory works (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:32:05 PM EST
    isn't it?  Because I didn't remember it clearly at all.

    I guess I wouldn't make a good witness.

    I wonder if I would have let my family hear it if I hadn't gotten so many very kind and generous complements from my blogging friends.

    Thank you very much!

    Parent

    Hillary was great (none / 0) (#70)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:47:24 PM EST
    but I did hear the phone noise.

    You just can't help it.  The adrenalin hits the veins, the body reacts and you just deal as best as you can.  Don't worry.  It's not a reflection on you.

    It's why I'm in awe of anyone who can deal with public speaking well and gracefully, because I'd be a mess.

    Parent

    I thought you did great (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:34:28 PM EST
    Everyone did, BTD too.

    Parent
    I remember meeting an earlier candidate (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:09:47 PM EST
    for president, Pat Schroeder -- a real hero to working women and mothers, for those who may not recall her.  And Clinton has spoken of her as a pathbreaker for her, too, because this mother of young children who got to Congress and gave the guys giggles at the thought went on to be a force for the Armed Forces.

    When I met her, and even in my forties, I turned into a total fangirl. I got choked up.  She handled it fine, which was good, because I sure didn't! :-)


    Parent

    I met Pat (5.00 / 0) (#145)
    by samanthasmom on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:56 PM EST
    when she was considering a run for the Presidency.  I was always sorry that she didn't really pursue it. I think she would have been a great President.

    Parent
    Pat was my congresswoman. (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:28:38 PM EST
    I went to one of her LEGENDARY Halloween parties when she was still in ofice. What a great woman! And yet so down-to-earth I wasn't toungue-tied at all when I met her.

    Did you know she was the one who came up with "Teflon" to describe Reagan?

    She's been succeeded by Diana DeGette, another great rep. who endorses Hillary.

    Parent

    Ahhhh, Pat. (5.00 / 0) (#229)
    by rise hillary rise on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:12:23 PM EST
    the one who said "I have a brain and a uterus-and I use both of them." you GO grrrl.

    Parent
    in addition to Sweetie (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by urduja on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:01:19 PM EST
    Obama has displayed a troubling pattern of relating to women. The word condescending comes to mind.

    from South Bend, Indiana, April 10, 2008:
    link

       

    "[Obama] posed for report pictures with the staff when he apparently felt his phone start to vibrate in his pocket on his right thigh - against which one woman was closely pressed.

        "Now that's my phone buzzing there," he said, drawing a laugh. "I don't want you to think I'm getting fresh or anything."

    from Scranton, PA, April 2, 2008:

    link


        "Sen. Barack Obama approached first overflow in the parking lot outside of the Scranton town hall, and immediately went to Denise Mercuri, a pharmacist from Dunmore who was wearing a Hillary Clinton button. She held an Obama button in her hand, and he asked what he needed to do to get her to wear his instead of his rival's.

        "What do I need to do? Do you want me on my knees?" he asked.

        He then conceded, keeping with his flirty trend of the day (see earlier report), "I'll give you a kiss."

    Perhaps, on their own, each incident may be excusable but his pattern of behavior certainly does not endear me to him -- if his lack of experience wasn't enough to cast doubt on my vote this fall!

    Just A Wild and Crazy Guy (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Athena on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:50:40 PM EST
    It's all sleazy and openly flirtatious - the Ladies Man approach doesn't work in 2008 - for anyone.  It's totally disqualifying in a Presidential candidate.

    Parent
    it's a turn off (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by urduja on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:04:54 PM EST
    actually -- speaking on a personal level.

    But, given his past his behavior wrt to LGBT issues (e.g. not taking a picture with SF Mayor, his association w/ McClurkin) and his tepid support of women's issues, it's also a major red flag for me.

    Parent

    This is laughable... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Alec82 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:35:08 PM EST
    ..."not taking a picture with SF Mayor, his association w/ McClurkin."

     Yes, his "association" with McClurkin.  Like all other "associations" concocted by Camp Clinton to drive him down (Nation of Islam, secretly a muslim, Rezko, Farrakhan, etc).  Not taking a picture with Newsom is a horrid sin, but her failure to push for LGBT legislation during her (this about experience and fighting for us, we are told) EIGHT years in the senate is...?  This is the candidate who defended DOMA as progressive.  Her words, not mine.  

      The Republican governor of California is ahead of both of these candidates on gay rights.  Voters don't believe them when they say they don't support gay marriage anyway.      

     His "tepid" support of women's issues? What evidence is there of that? Your opinion or his policy stances?

     

    Parent

    Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:45:03 PM EST
    blocked the Federal Marriage Amendment.  And good for her.  As for as LGBT legislation, it's been dead in the Senate since ENDA didn't pass -- well before HRC was in office.

    If you have link to HRC calling DOMA progressive, I'd like to see it.

    Nobody's fabulous on gay rights.  They're all about the same re:  legislation.  But Hillary has been more open and upfront about her support for gays and lesbians. Heck, Chelsea did the rounds of the gay bars with Ed Rendell.  Hillary did an interview with the Philadelphia Gay News.  Hillary went to Pride marches as First Lady.  Obama?  Kept ex-gay McLurkin on his gospel tour; refused to have his picture taken w/Newsome at an SF fundraiser; refuses to give interviews w/local gay papers; and said he really admired his gay prof in college b/c the guy didn't "prosyletize".  I see a clear difference between the two of them just on that.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 8) (#181)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:45:34 PM EST
    I think Obama's lack of political courage in refusing to have his picture taken with Gavin Newsom during an election year compares very unfavorably to the guts Hillary displayed when she became the first sitting First Lady to march in a Gay Pride parade.

    No one is perfect, of course.  But I'm part of the majority that believes the Clintons tried to do the right thing on GLBT issues in the 90s and got burned for it, as opposed to the minority that believes they gleefully threw gays under the bus at the first opportunity.

    I understand no politician can be perfect on these difficult issues, but geez, the Newsom thing is just so pathetic.

    Parent

    so instead of (5.00 / 1) (#216)
    by urduja on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:06:08 PM EST
    Obama's tepid support of women's issues...

    I'll speak of Clinton's history of strong advocacy on women's issues (and I include children's issues here, too)...

    During his adult life, what has Obama strongly advocated for and accomplished (in real, pragmatic terms, taking into account, of course, the prevailing political reality)?

    Parent

    So is... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Alec82 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:53:17 PM EST
    ...subtle racism, whether through sanctioned surrogates or through code language.

     Where does that leave us?

    Parent

    With Hillary of course! (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:59:32 PM EST
    So right. The Obama camp's use of subtle racism through surrogates or coded language is really shameful.

    Parent
    drum roll please (5.00 / 3) (#222)
    by sarahfdavis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:08:32 PM EST
    FAIRY TALE! (used about obama's war voting NOT his candidacy)
    JESSE JACKSON! (comparison to the type of demographics obama pulled...which only bill clinton had matched)
    DENIGRATING MLK (bullsh*t...it took an inspirer and a politician to pass the civil rights act)
    FERRARO (Obama said the exact same thing about himself)

    knock off the divisiveness. this crap is what's tearing the party in half. and it's disgusting the way Obama and his supporters have so willingly turned on the Clintons. You could've been for Obama and he could have made his case without trashing the 2 term Democratic president (that BTW, the AA community loved before the Obama campaign and media stirred up this garbage)

    Get your Unity hell outta here.

    Parent

    it does sound like obama is quite taken (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:28 PM EST
    with his charm. i recall his blatantly asking the guy in the ill senate to back him for the senate seat in dc. the guy was taken aback by it but did.

    Parent
    I think someone told him he is sexy (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:11:51 PM EST
    and he believed it. Snicker. Personally, I think he looks a bit too much like Howdy Doody to be sexy. Or maybe it's Alfred E. Newman from MAD he reminds me of. Either way, it's not sexy. Heh.

    Parent
    Hey, I was on the Howdy (none / 0) (#239)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:18:58 PM EST
    Doody show in the peanut gallery. I got a picture with Buffalo Bob...

    Parent
    Watch him on C-Span when he shows up (5.00 / 2) (#238)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:18:03 PM EST
    for Senate work. He is constantly touching the women on the shoulder, back, etc. He is excessively condescending to women no matter where he is.

    "Hon" was the word he used earlier in the week when he was leaving the gathering of undecided SD's.

    When he's out of ear shot, you can be sure the words change to less endearing, but still descriptive.

    Parent

    Live Portland Townhall Meeting (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CDN Ctzn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:08:03 PM EST
    with Hillary Clinton streaming at KGWtv.com. Not sure about the web address as I'm watching it live but a quick Google of KGW should lead you to it.

    I'm sucking bandwidth now! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:21:35 PM EST
    yay!

    It's such a shame that Obama couldn't make it.

    Parent

    A Question, Please (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by Athena on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:09:08 PM EST
    Is anyone else here immediately tired of the mano a mano brawl between McCain, Bush, Obama and his men?  God, it was all so deadly familiar.

    I mean - I am already missing hearing a female voice in any of the "big issues" - uh, like, world security.

    And Hillary was only cited for her comments and how they reflected on Obama.  Obama's coverage just sucks up all the oxygen - but I just see men and boys everywhere.  Oh, maybe there are a few sweeties.

    Tell me again - how is it that a female President is not "change?"

    DnD geek talk here. (none / 0) (#81)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:57:46 PM EST
    When I was with a role playing group, the organizer said that he always noticed a difference when a woman was part of the group.

    Women seem to defuse p!ssing contests and other overt competition.  It's less about ego and more about goals.

    Some men will tone down their rhetoric when a woman is part of the group.  They seem to understand that women are less impressed by it.

    It's the generic gender bias towards either competition or cooperation.  I think that with Bush/McCain/Obama that it's a painfully stereotypical male shouting match to get one message heard above the others.  It's not a debate over which message is better on the merits.  It's just about making MY message dominant.

    Launch the propaganda, full speed ahead!

    Parent

    Is anyone watching Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:24:44 PM EST
    in Oregon?

    Obama just doesn't have her wealth of knowledge.  No wonder he stayed away.

    On the net anywhere? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Mrwirez on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:28:04 PM EST


    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#59)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:36:35 PM EST
    Here

    Parent
    Thank You (none / 0) (#60)
    by Mrwirez on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:37:57 PM EST
    PIE

    Parent
    Listening to the HRC blogger call (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:26:41 PM EST
    Hey BTD, has your candidate given you a chance to ask him a direct question?

    Just curious.

    I so wanted to go (none / 0) (#93)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:05 PM EST
    to the Great Orange and ask
    "So where's Obama's townhall?"
    "So where's Obama schmoozing his blogging buddies?"

    Clinton did take a risk talking to "her" bloggers.  Then again, she talks to everybody - waiting for Rush to invite her.  

    I'd advise against Ed Schultz - I caught bits of his show today and he was on an ego trip.  Nothing wrong with a little self love, but please, in the privacy of your own home!

    Parent

    It would be (none / 0) (#109)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:06:18 PM EST
    a collective fainting spell.  

    Parent
    Interesting in the blogger call (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by lilburro on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:39:02 PM EST
    that Hillary acknowledges bloggers make a difference.  "Your engagement in these incredibly significant ways helps us set the ground for what we are trying to say in the campaign."  She owns her bloggers more or less.  Does Obama own his bloggers?  Do the bloggers own Obama?  I believe Obama must be aware that he has a sizeable faction of supporters online that say damaging and inflammatory things.  He must be keeping an eye on it.

    Just because Obama's not doing the dirty work personally doesn't mean he doesn't know it's being done.

    Inspiring (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:39:14 PM EST
    I just finished listening to the blogger call.  The guy from NY who said his son donated $5 from his allowance choked me up.  And then when Senator Clinton talked about the other young person who sold his bike and video games so he could give to her campaign just put me over the top.

    I went right to her website and made a donation.  If children are doing this, I have a renewed sense of faith in the younger generation.

    Senator Clinton is a CLASS act all the way.

    Back from dinner and listening now (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:40:04 PM EST
    I'm glad to hear that Hillary is harping on the popular vote.

    Hillary is taking questions (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Rhouse on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:54:09 PM EST
    from the audience and while her voice is strong, but you can hear the roughness.  Hey she just gave a shout out to I-95 in Philly and what we need to do to fix the roads and gas prices and mass transit.  She's talking about national bond issues to help the infrastructure of the US. And onto China....

    We wore out her voice just before that (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:52 PM EST
    when she talked to phonebankers across the country -- in between bloggers and the town hall, yikes.  And she phonebanked some calls herself today, too.  Can you imagine the recipients getting those calls?!

    A couple of things she said to us (yes, I took notes for all of you; I'm a notetaker and listmaker in everything in this life):  

    Volunteers have made more than 2 million calls (a lot of them from our Kathy:-).  "It's a very successful system," she said, and made this a "great month."  And she said, "I'm overwhelmed" by the outpouring of support from volunteers everywhere.

    "I feel better and better all the time about who can win in fall" -- and, of course, she said she is the one who can.  But as ever, the "we" was Dems.  "We can win and will win, because we need a Dem in the White House" for the sake of the country.

    The Oregon state director preceded her and said that yesterday alone at the main office -- I think in Salem? -- there were more than 1,000 volunteers through it in a day.  And about the phonebanking, he said of the impact that "we can see it, hear it, feel it on the ground here -- it's making a difference."

    And it's really important to keep calling Kentucky and Oregon, so get to the Clinton site and sign up for info on how to use ACTIVATE.  Let's hit three million calls!


    Parent

    Thanks much for the report! (5.00 / 0) (#154)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:28:15 PM EST
    Wow. You can always tell a person's character by how they act to those working -- or volunteering -- for them.

    What a contrast to that character who blames his staff.

    Parent

    Thanks for the report! (none / 0) (#231)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:13:51 PM EST
    1,000 volunteers through the office is fantastic! along with all the phone calls!

    Parent
    Pelted with food (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by davnee on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:54:24 PM EST
    Did a Honk for Hillary event tonight in KY and had a driver throw a hamburger bun at my head while yelling "f*ck you, Go Obama."  They're keeping it classy out there.  Despite the occasional morons, the response was overwhelmingly positive.  

    In all my years working political events (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by katiebird on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:24:21 PM EST
    I've NEVER heard of people throwing food at the opponents supporters.  This is unique with this election.

    Unless it was just road rage and high gas prices. (probably not)

    Parent

    Moron story #2 (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by davnee on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:49:32 PM EST
    At the same intersection had a woman driving and trying to hold her Obama sign out the window as she drove.  Screaming obscenities naturally.  Of course the sign flew out of her hand as she crossed the intersection (at rush hour), and she slammed on her brakes, nearly causing a multi-car pile up, and got out of her car and went after the sign.  Needless to say, we did not mark down the honks everywhere at that moment as Hillary honks.

    Parent
    There is so much new (none / 0) (#245)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:27:39 PM EST
    this primary season, and it's all coming from one campaign. I really wonder what the mood of the country would be if he were to move into the Whitehouse. Is it going to be open season on the demographics who have thought better than to join in on this hoodlum mentality.

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#88)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:00:42 PM EST


    Parent
    Food fight. Frat boy stuff. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:14:20 PM EST
    Thank you for standing up and standing firm!

    I am thinking good thoughts about you Kentuckians -- even though I'm married to a Hoosier, from southern Indiana, so I've heard lots of Kentucky jokes.  Then a friend from Kentucky told me they're the same jokes they tell about Hoosiers.  

    And I hear that yours is a beautiful state.  Go make it absolutely over-the-top gorgeous on Tuesday!

    Parent

    Oh, brother. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:57:54 PM EST
    Obama is doing a rally on Sunday in Oregon.

    Pathetic.

    What She Said Guy (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by DEM on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:02:50 PM EST
    is actually doing a TOWN HALL in Pendleton on Sunday.  Coward.

    Parent
    At the end of her appearance, (none / 0) (#160)
    by pie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:31:15 PM EST
    the two newspeople said "rally."

    If it is a townhall, maybe Hillary should show up and surprise him.

    Parent

    Glib (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:04:28 PM EST
    thy name is Barack Obama.

    Parent
    Tempted to show up and yell (none / 0) (#91)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:02:19 PM EST
    "Hey Sweetie! How come you never answered that reporter?"

    I know; badbadbadofme

    Parent

    Stay classy. (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:10:46 PM EST
    You don't want to be confused with certain other people, they might think you are one of them!

    Parent
    Fantastic HRC Live Forum broadcast (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 09:59:49 PM EST
    from Portland -- just finished. Wow she has such command of the issues.

    I wish she had pointed out that Obama turned down appearing at any such forums... She was too nice about that. He's a coward IMO.

    If that is the case (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by felizarte on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:01:58 PM EST
    it may explain several things: (1) It may have been Michelle who brought Obama to meet the Rev. Wright;  (2) Obama stayed many years in that church because Michelle probably liked it there; (3) That kind of ranting explains the subsequent, "for the first time in my adult life, I am proud . . . " (4) This Rev. Wright connection is like a hydra and will bite; the DNC better grill Obama on this particular item before May 31.  This could be devastating.

    personally i think the so called party (none / 0) (#116)
    by hellothere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:08:42 PM EST
    elders know obama's dark secrets and are going ahead with what i consider a farce anyway. some just don't care and hope they can get away with it. some are being intimidated or "influenced" to go along like edwards.

    Parent
    The next speech about race (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:16:15 PM EST
    probably is all scripted, and it will be the best speech ever, and all will be well.  That's what they're telling themselves. . . .

    Parent
    Now if only we can get Rev. Wright to (none / 0) (#255)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:41:21 PM EST
    come out and say that for the first time in his adult life he is proud of Michelle Obama.

    <snark>

    Parent

    He met Michelle later (none / 0) (#258)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:44:20 PM EST
    after Harvard. He was listening to Wright tapes while at Harvard.

    Now she may have similar opinions, but I think he met Wright and made that choice on his own.

    Parent

    Reading David Brooks' (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by lilburro on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:03:48 PM EST
    column, "Obama Admires Bush":

    "This is not an argument between Democrats and Republicans," he concluded. "It's an argument between ideology and foreign policy realism. I have enormous sympathy for the foreign policy of George H. W. Bush. I don't have a lot of complaints about their handling of Desert Storm. I don't have a lot of complaints with their handling of the fall of the Berlin Wall."

    Ok.  I have heard this over, and over, and over.  The Repub-love.  If Obama keeps admiring GHW Bush, it will come to the point where you say, then why not vote Bush?  Why not McCain?  Why is Obama trying to appropriate a VERY recent Republican president???  I mean GHW must be tickled.

    Brooks sets Obama up as being super liberal, then says Obama admires Bush.  The key in the article is to make Bush the norm, the noble, the good.  Obama admires Bush.  But obviously Obama isn't a Republican, like Bush.  Bush has more in common with McCain.  Viola!  McCain!  The real greatness!  I feel like Obama is setting himself up for a battle he'll lose.  Bush here is admirable.  Will Obama get suckered into defining what's good about Republicans?  How long will that conversation last?  It doesn't seem good.  Linking your wonderful personal brand with Republicans does not bode well to me.

    4 more years of this with Obama? (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:07:14 PM EST
    And we will never hear a compliment about Bill Clinton's 8 years either.

    No thanks.  This guy just doesn't get it.

    Parent

    We might not get 4 more years of this (none / 0) (#126)
    by lilburro on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:14:56 PM EST
    because it doesn't sound like a winning Dem's talk.  I think his 'postpartisanship' verges on ambiguity, and ambiguity doesn't play well in the GE.

    Parent
    One of the many many things (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:08:17 PM EST
    that BHO has said that make me doubt the sanity of any "Dem" supporters of his.
    (slaps head)

    Parent
    It's been said before on this site (5.00 / 3) (#124)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:13:38 PM EST
    if you give people a choice between a real Republican and a person who talks like a Republican the people will pick the real thing every time.

    Parent
    Mhmm. (none / 0) (#129)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:15:34 PM EST
    That's very true.

    Parent
    The GOP are co-opting Obama's slogan (none / 0) (#247)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:30:23 PM EST
    with a twist. Heh. They are rolling out a new slogan.
    After losing a hotly-contested Mississippi congressional seat this week, their third straight special election defeat in a row, House GOP leaders planned a public relations offensive, including a rollout of a new agenda pegged to the slogan, "The Change You Deserve."
    I guess Childers really inspired them.

    The "change we deserve" is Hillary Clinton.

    Parent

    Gosh, she is just so sophisticated on the issues. (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:04:35 PM EST
    Really liked her answer in infrastructure, which she tied into broadband, then told us about other countries investment in these areas and how we have lost our competitive advantage, and need to envision the economy of the future.  I honestly don't understand how anyone could prefer an empty suit to her.

    BTD, I will now address you as follows: (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by diplomatic on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:16 PM EST
    "the brilliant Armando"

    blegh, if I must.  Well deserved.  Good freaking questions man.  Very articulate and on point on that call.

    townhall (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Robert Oak on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:05:45 PM EST
    I just watched the KGW Clinton townhall and she really hit it out of the ballpark.

    When this whole thing started she sounded like the corporate representative as well as have staged townhalls.

    On these, she has different policy positions, way more fluid, excellent, Progressive, Populist policy positions, answers.  A home run.

    I think the worst things that have happen to Hillary are Mark Penn and Rubins (Citigroup) and getting Mark Penn out of there has obviously done her a world of good.

    Hillary great at Portland Townhall (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by caseyOR on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:08:39 PM EST
    Sen. Clinton's townhall here in Portland just ended. She was, of course, great. So at ease; so warm; and some knowledgeable.

     She gave excellent answers to all the questions, but her response to one about the gas tax holiday was especially good. She laid out the 3 different positions (Clinton, Obama, McCain), highl;ighted the differences, then clearly explained how her plan differs from the others and meets both short term and long term goals. Pointed out that while the average person's savings would be about $70, the savings for truckers could hit the billions and translate into savings for the rest of us on food and other stuff that must be transported.

    She's got an amazing memory. And great charm. None of the questions were pre-screened and all were informed and respectful.

    When asked at the end to list both the high point and the low point of the campaign her high was anytime she gets to campaign with Chelsea (she looks so sweet when she talks about Chelsea) and the low was lack of sleep.

    I admit it, I love our girl, and with good reason.

    Hey caseyOR, this is OT but (none / 0) (#135)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:18:34 PM EST
    you asked in another thread that closed comments before I could respond, what high school I went to in Peoria.

    Woodruff for three years, Peoria Heights High for one. I lived in PH, obviously.

    You?

    Parent

    Echinopsia (none / 0) (#140)
    by caseyOR on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:22:22 PM EST
    Richwoods. I lived in Rolling Acres.  My sister went to Bergen, which has a different name now.

    Parent
    What years? My brother went to Richwoods 67-71 (none / 0) (#161)
    by echinopsia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:32:49 PM EST
    The annexation of Richwoods township to Peoria meant I had to go to Woodruff. This is what prompted my dad (and others) to get a high school built for Peoria Heights.

    I had friends who went to Bergen.

    Parent

    Echinopsia (none / 0) (#218)
    by caseyOR on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:07:43 PM EST
    I was at Richwoods from 1966-1970.

    Parent
    Bush v. Obama (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:11:48 PM EST
    You know, the more I see of this story the more convinced I am that Bush was obviously referring to Jimmy Carter and his recent meeting with Hamas. The reason Obama threw himself into it was more chest-pounding to "prove" he is the "presumptive nominee."

    I was thinking that. (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:19:48 PM EST
    He's desperate to get the Dem's to rally behind him, but the only ones doing that were already there.  It's not good that he failed to win the majority of registered Dem's.

    Parent
    The Repubs (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:24:05 PM EST
    are already jumping on him for that. Someone posted a coupla links on an earlier thread. (sorry I don't remember name).

    Basically the Rs thought he had a guilty conscience and/or was a naive politician!

    Parent

    Well, I hate to say it (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:29:19 PM EST
    because I have never defended the Republicans in general or W in particular (at least not on purpose) but d@mn it to h3ll, I have to say I agree with them on this one.

    Parent
    Bush's people traveling with him (none / 0) (#158)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:29:32 PM EST
    in Israel told reporters he was absolutely talking specifically about Obama.

    Parent
    They said it (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:37:45 PM EST
    after Obama reacted to it like it was about him.  At that point, why NOT say it was about Obama?  He set the table, after all.  It would be rude not to sit down and eat (Obama's) lunch.

    Parent
    You know what? I don't believe that. (none / 0) (#184)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:46:00 PM EST
    First -- unnamed "sources" hold little weight with me now that I've seen the shabby reporting in this primary. Second -- referring to Carter is what makes sense, because Carter's meeting with Hamas caused a lot of bad PR with Israel; the fact that Obama (who, despite all his talk otherwise, isn't actually the President) has said he would do it isn't the same thing PR-wise as a former President actually doing it. It really isn't all about Obama -- as much as a moron that I know W is, he has speech writers, and his comment, imo, was a PR move re: Carter, and I am sure the audience heard it that way as well, despite the after-the-fact spin.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#176)
    by facta non verba on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:43:39 PM EST
    many people think that as well. John McLaughlin, Clarence Thomas, Pat Buchanan, Joe Scarborough.

    Parent
    Way to bring me down, man. (none / 0) (#193)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:50:52 PM EST
    Are you telling me I agree with Clarence Thomas? Well, a broken clock is right twice a day. Jeezus though, this is what happens since I'm on my "no msm diet" -- if I hadn't been, maybe I could have talked myself out of my conclusion.

    Parent
    Or it could have been because Hamas (none / 0) (#250)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:34:16 PM EST
    endorsed him and he wanted to head that off at the pass. He is so clueless!!!

    Parent
    Here is the new Clinton Ad (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by facta non verba on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:15:28 PM EST
    in Oregon.

    Clinton Ad in Oregon

    That has been bothering me. Why (none / 0) (#169)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:39:08 PM EST
    is he getting a total pass on voting for Bush-Cheney? It seems like a paid-for vote and a big mistake but ^crickets^. Glad she brought it up.

    Parent
    Did some phonebanking today (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:18:18 PM EST
    for Oregon. Lots o hangups, but some voters actually spent about 5 - 10 min with me, wanting to hear about HRC's stand on the issues, what she'd done. Thoughtful folks.

    One said she thought the "white working class voters" comment was bad, and talked up by The Media. I discussed the statistical support for non-black working voters for HRC. I then calmly mentioned that BHO had described his grandmother as a "typical white person."  The voter was very surprised --never heard that before. (Yeah, the media didn't pounce on that one, did they?)  I then got to relate all the details. Managed not to say "yeah, he really threw her under the bus!"

    DId get one "Scr*w Hillary Clinton"      Hmmm. Wonder how often the other side gets "Scr*w Barack Obama"?      

    Please look upthread for what HRC said (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Cream City on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:26:30 PM EST
    tonight about all of the phonebankers, for what the Oregon state director said about the effects, etc.

    Who knew we could make such a difference? :-)

    Parent

    Thanks! (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:43:13 PM EST
    I was posting down at the (then) end of thread and not bothering to look up above for newer ones. Until a few minutes later...

    Appreciate the kind reminder.

    Parent

    please, grow up (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:19:28 PM EST
    Please, I'm begging you. If you don't understand the type of mentality it takes for a 45 year old man in this day and age to refer to a woman in her professional capacity as "sweetie" and what that mentality shows about that man's attitudes toward women in general then you are either (1) not a woman (2) an extremely young (girl or boy) or (3) the luckiest woman in the world to make it this far in life and not have encountered this type of sexist bs. That he apologized after being called out on it does not change the fact that he has the mentality to say it in the first place.

    some women (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:38:39 PM EST
    have no idea how to make the special candidate comfortable. So sorry I asked you a question.  More pillows? Another waffle?

    Gee, did he not have any idea that he'd have long days, talk to lots of people, get no privacy? Hounded by media.....What an absolute surprise for a presidential candidate.

    If he can't stand the heat, he needs to get out of the kitchen, make  a graceful exit, and let the pro take over.

    Parent

    as he said "It's a habit" (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:20:10 PM EST
    I've heard it more than once. Did it last Wed or Thursday when he was in DC and before that in PA. You may want to let it slide, but other women are perfectly in their right to find it offensive. IMO, we let this sh!t slide too often. It does us NO good.

    Parent
    "boy" (none / 0) (#159)
    by sarahfdavis on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:29:34 PM EST
    Imagine if Senator Clinton had addressed an AA male as "hey boy".
    Doesn't sound like an apples to apples but it is. That's how ingrained and ok sexism is.

    Parent
    You are alone on this (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:47:38 PM EST
    I described it to my wife, she kind of blew it off. I showed her the video and she almost broke my laptop.

    You don't get it, sorry.

    And living with woman...well that is a pretty weak defense. Because you know, wife abusers live with women too.

    Parent

    Warmth towards a person he has no personal (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:52:13 PM EST
    or family relation with??  Please don't continue with this defense it doesn't make sense.   He was being condescending and it is not the only time he used expressions that were sexist or bordering on being sexist.  I know many a man with daughters who are chauvinist and sexist so don't try to tell me because of the women in his house he can not be.   Also you are probably one of very few people who did not find it offensive.   Most people I have discussed this with women or men found it dismissive and offensive.   Of course if your purpose is to defend Obama's actions no matter what then hey go ahead and say what you must.

    Parent
    it's NOT warmth. (5.00 / 2) (#235)
    by rise hillary rise on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:15:59 PM EST
    it's called "putting her in her place."

    Parent
    So you think it's ok for him to (5.00 / 0) (#243)
    by FlaDemFem on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:25:18 PM EST
    address a professional reporter the same way he talks to his little girls?? Interesting.

    Parent
    Sweetie, Annie Oakley, middle finger on (none / 0) (#191)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:50:11 PM EST
    cheek, brush of hand dusting his shoulder, she's putting out her claws, referred to her hormones, among many, many other things that if anyone said about Michele, he'd probably flip out. Sorry, but you can practice sexism (and I'm not "allowed" to mention race) and expect, really expect me to vote for you. As for throwing out a line because he's tired, look at him again in the video of the sweetie comment....very much into all around him, especially himself. He perhaps would've been considered for my vote, if he hadn't  so handily thrown out all the sexist remarks and allowed others in his camp to make them. My skin is not thin, my brain is functioning quite well...please do not insult me!!!

    Parent
    go Zfran (none / 0) (#196)
    by bjorn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:53:18 PM EST
    if you have not already seen Erica jung's post check it out

    Parent
    I read Erica Jong's (none / 0) (#200)
    by zfran on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:55:50 PM EST
    piece and loved it. What fascinated me were some of the vitrialic (sp) comments below the article. Really mean-spirited.

    Parent
    Good God woman (none / 0) (#201)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:56:31 PM EST
    You are 50 years old and you can defend this? Well, you have my sincere congratulations because you are the luckiest woman in the world to make it this far and not encountered this sexist bs before. And yes, grow up -- chronological age has little to do with maturity. If you had more of it, you would know that your personal good fortune re: sexism does not excuse your lack of empathy for other woman who haven't been as fortune.

    Parent
    No Kentucky for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by DJ on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:26:45 PM EST
    because Fox News and the emails have already poisoned Kentucky against him by sending out false information about him.  (or so he says)

    Why does he only want to meet with friendly audiences?  I mean come on already.  There goes that 48-57 state strategy.  Is there a more cowardly politician?  None come to mind.  A President can face opposition and stand up for their ideas and defend their policies.  Oh yeah..I forgot.  

    DJ you just reminded me of something (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:36:25 PM EST
    who was the candidate in 2004 that only wanted to go in front of friendly audiences.  Who had the audiences screened.  Wasn't it GWB?  Sounds like a Republican thing to me.  Chenney also wanted his audiences to be friendly.

    Parent
    It's what low info candidates do (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by DJ on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:39:55 PM EST
    who also happen to be cowards.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:49:15 PM EST
    If it's that easy to "poison" a state, how will we ever have a chance in the general election?

    Parent
    Fox poisoned the state? (5.00 / 3) (#241)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:22:09 PM EST
    You go regardless.

    I don't get it. He says he'll sit down with the prez of Iran.

    Are Kentuckians that much more scary?

    Parent

    this is so good, (5.00 / 1) (#244)
    by bjorn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:26:16 PM EST
    I wish a press person would ask him this question.

    Parent
    Laugh for tonight.... (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:27:51 PM EST
     

    "I don't want Bush-Cheney lite," he told reporters yesterday. "I want a fundamental change." Sen. Barack Obama, NYT, July 26, 2007 referring to Sen. Hillary Clinton.

    From No Quarter.

    Is this guy dillusional?  He claims great judgment but voted for Cheney's ridiculous energy bill.  Dooh!!!  

    Man! (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:35:04 PM EST
    I so hate that!  Saying Clinton is the same as Bush-Cheney!  Geez, I really, just W.T.F.!!!

    Parent
    Too bad for him those low-info voters (none / 0) (#187)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:48:28 PM EST
    know better.  

    Parent
    Our yellow lab tonight (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:39:43 PM EST
    alerted us via shrill and panicked barking (LOL) that we have bunnies!  We have one mama and about 5 babies, all little cotton tails.

    Cutest bunnies EVAH!

    We're so excited.  Thankfully we don't have a veggie garden, and the little guys/gals like to trim our grass which is never a bad thing.

    I'm so very glad it's (finally) spring.

    How cute.... (none / 0) (#182)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:45:46 PM EST
    ...we used to have bunnies in our old house until our neighbor decided he wanted a vegetable garden. Then suddenly there were no more bunnies. He wasn't able to get rid of the deer though, ha.

    Parent
    If only you could post pictures... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Marvin42 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:45:50 PM EST
    Would be a great way to end the day...bunny pictures!

    Parent
    I'm uploading video right now (none / 0) (#207)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:00:48 PM EST
    to You-Tube.  If it ever finishes, I'll send a link.

    Parent
    Congrats! (none / 0) (#192)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:50:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Big Tent Democrat (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by ghost2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:53:20 PM EST
    Thank you for being so classy, and also for the great way of putting it, "there is now a Hillary Clinton wing of the party".

    I hope TM has the bandwidth (none / 0) (#3)
    by Fabian on Fri May 16, 2008 at 08:20:09 PM EST
    for the hits!

    Thanks for the link.
    I'll probably have to listen later.

    I've seen the blog post (none / 0) (#118)
    by Emma on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:09:56 PM EST
    Until I see the alleged video, it's a non-starter to me.  Would I be suprised it exists?  There's very little that surprises me, so, no.  But, until I see it with my own eyes, it's nothing.  IMO.

    I agree -- when I see it, I'll judge (none / 0) (#149)
    by angie on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:26:20 PM EST
    likewise, I will not be surprised if it exists -- I've never thought for one second that anyone who attends a church for 20 years the theology of which is based on the separation of races disagrees with that theology. The only thing that surprises me is that others accept that the Obamas don't believe the theological teachings of their church.

    Parent
    Something may exist but.... (none / 0) (#174)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:41:43 PM EST
    ...I bet it's not as bad as they say. First of all, I can't see that Rev. Wright would let random churchmembers deliver sermons. I don't know what UCC does but maybe its just a video of her reading the daily prayer or something. Just the fact that she would be at the same pulpit as Rice would probably be enough to scandalilze some Republicans.

    Parent
    I used to go to a UCC and we often (none / 0) (#225)
    by Shainzona on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:09:47 PM EST
    had parishioner "sermons"/comments.  And with Wright's ego, I'm sure he would have loved to have MO up by his side.

    Parent
    I missed the Oregon town hall (none / 0) (#127)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:15:01 PM EST
    I wonder if there's any possibility of getting video.

    Their archive is (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by LHinSeattle on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:22:13 PM EST
    here

    Doesn't look like it's up yet. They have an HRC interview from a few days ago, though.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#143)
    by andgarden on Fri May 16, 2008 at 10:23:29 PM EST
    I'll keep an eye out.

    Parent
    In 10 Things I Hate about You (none / 0) (#217)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:06:13 PM EST
    there's a scene where two of the guys (the main plotters) are talking back and forth and one comes out with "We're Scr3w3d!"

    The other responds with the ubiquitous "You can say that again."

    To which the former announces that "We're Scr3w3d!"

    If this whole tape thing is true, I'm seriously wondering if it's possible that "We're scr3w3d"...

    I had to explain (none / 0) (#234)
    by Lahdee on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:14:45 PM EST
    to someone today about what happened in Florida. He is of the opinion that the Democrats of FL are to blame for what's been bestowed on them by the DNC. He also didn't understand my position on Donna and buses.
    It started when he showed up at my desk and said, "but the vote was almost unanimous." I told him I'd get him some links and he could read how the republicans setup a Hobson's choice with the paper trail thing. "Why didn't they protest," he asked? Read this link I said. He hadn't by the time I left work today. I can't wait until I see him on Tuesday. Heh.
    Bummed out... (none / 0) (#237)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:17:59 PM EST
    Was shooting 9-ball in the playoffs tonight. Was playing a guy with a skill level 2x better than me.

    Did pretty well, but I wound up being 4 balls shy of my needed win. My team lost the whole thing by 2 points...

    Quite literally I had 3 different balls almost drop in the pocket...but didn't.

    I coulda won this game...but d@mn he's a good shot and played a lot of defensive shots.

    :-(

    So sorry kredwyn (5.00 / 1) (#246)
    by Lahdee on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:29:32 PM EST
    Hope your mood improves and you have a better tomorrow.
    Here, a little something that may bring you a smile.

    Parent
    Thanks... (none / 0) (#248)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:33:20 PM EST
    that was...fascinating. A "what not to do" vid :)

    Parent
    What does everyone think (none / 0) (#249)
    by americanincanada on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:33:56 PM EST
    of Obama challenging McCain and Bush to a foreign policy debate?

    I hope McCain says he won't debate until there is a dem nominee.

    we all know neither of them wants Hill there...she'd wipe the floor with them. McCain will gain some respect for me if he says that though.

    It would be a disaster (none / 0) (#253)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:37:36 PM EST
    for the Democrats

    Parent
    Lame. And Bush? (none / 0) (#254)
    by masslib on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:39:32 PM EST
    Atually, I am quite tired of BO and JM discussing debates before BO is nominated, as he may, God willing, not be.  Here is a debate I'd love to see, Hillary, Obama, McCain.  But they don't have the cajones to debate her.

    Parent
    I would enjoy it (none / 0) (#260)
    by Steve M on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:46:41 PM EST
    Look, either Obama has figured out how to deal with the same old slogans or he hasn't.

    If he has, then great, the more people that focus on the debate the better.

    If he hasn't, then we're probably screwed anyway, but the sooner it becomes clear the better.

    Parent

    What?! (none / 0) (#265)
    by nycstray on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:59:42 PM EST
    Oy. Well, I think he may have his notes on what Hillary said  :) Or perhaps we will get his all knowing perspective from his childhood experience?

    Parent
    Appreciated your comments (none / 0) (#259)
    by jere on Fri May 16, 2008 at 11:45:35 PM EST
    BTD - I really appreciated your comments the respect that you gave to Senator Clinton on the call today.  

    Friday Night Open Thread | 234 comments (234 topical)