Details Announced for May 31 Meeting on FL-MI Delegates

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:23:30 PM EST
Tags: Florida '08, Michigan '08 (all tags)

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The Rules and Bylaws Committee of the DNC today announced how it will proceed at the May 31 hearing at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel. It's open to the public, but you must pre-register.

[T]he rules committee will meet at a Washington area hotel and consider two challenges – including one from Jon Ausman, a national committeeman from Florida.

The advisory says, “each challenger (including Ausman) will be entitled to present an Oral Argument before the RBC prior to Committee consideration for a period of 15 minutes each.”

“A representative from each state party and from each presidential campaign will also have an opportunity to address the committee regarding each of the challenges,” the notice explains.

The arguments will be in the morning and the Committee will deliberate after lunch. You can register on-line starting at 10 a.m. on Tuesday (May 27.) [More...]

One more rule: You can't bring "banners, posters, signs, handouts, and noisemakers of any kind."

As for whether Hillary will stay in the race after June, the AP reports Hillary said she is willing to take the fight for Florida and Michigan's votes to count to the convention:

Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is willing to take her fight to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to the convention if the two states want to go that far. In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton was asked whether she would support the states if they continue the fight. The presidential candidate said Wednesday, "Yes I will. I will, because I feel very strongly about this."

I'm not sure that's a statement that she will stay in the race while she continues to fight for their votes to count, but some are interpreting it that way.

From a later article here's her statement:

Asked if she now envisioned the race extending beyond June 3, Clinton replied: "It could, I hope it doesn't. I hope it's resolved to everyone's satisfaction by that date, because that's what people are expecting, but we'll have to see what happens."

More on Hillary's speech today in Florida here.

< Where We Agree With Daily Kos | Hillary's Speech on Florida and Michigan >

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Details Announced for May 31 Meeting on FL-MI Delegates | 70 comments (70 topical)

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Will it be teleivsed? (5.00 / 3) (#1)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:25:25 PM EST

It is ESSENTIAL that it be aired publically on TELEVISION. C- Span will no doubt love to cover it.

I think that is a critical question.

It absolutely must be televised. We have got to (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Angel on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:28:11 PM EST

know what is said, who says it, what is done, etc. To not televise would just makes things worse because it would appear to be a "backroom deal."


: Will there be any (none / 0) (#6)
by mg7505 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:30:50 PM EST

transcript or coverage of the Committee's deliberations? That is the part we need to see the most. Regardless, I think all the arm-twisting will be done beforehand and they may have made up their minds already.

Highest ratings ever. Promise. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Angel on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:28:38 PM EST

Heh (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by Steve M on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:29:39 PM EST

I suspect this will be a typical Open Meetings Act sort of sham. There's no way they haven't worked this out offline one way or another.


Run the sham on TV (5.00 / 13) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:31:25 PM EST

I want to see them say they do not care about the voters of Florida.

I want to hear Donna Brazile say it.

I eant to see if Barack Obama will be there to say it.

I also recommend that Hillary Clinton herself be there and to argue the case herself.

That will insure coverage.


What a GREAT idea, BTD! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by vicsan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:40:08 PM EST

Hillary really should be the one arguing this case! She is an attorney after all. I would be VERY impressed if she took this on herself.


: With BTD as second chair, (none / 0) (#66)
by oculus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:05:48 PM EST

just in case she goes off topic.

Ironic on so many levels (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by ghost2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:54:39 PM EST

On the 100th anniversary of women earning the right to cast a ballot, in the year that the democrats want to make history by electing the first AA or the first woman president, isn't it deeply ironic to disenfranchise 2.5 million people?


Which Anniversary Are You Referring To? (none / 0) (#30)
by daring grace on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:10:57 PM EST

The 19th amendment to the U.S. constitution granting women the right to vote was ratified on August 26, 1920, almost 88 years ago.

AMENDMENT XIX

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
Congress shall have power to enforce this Article by appropriate legislation.

That's true. (none / 0) (#71)
by ghost2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:52:31 PM EST

I got my facts mixed. sorry.

The point stands.


: No Need To Apologize (none / 0) (#76)
by daring grace on Thu May 22, 2008 at 10:24:31 AM EST

There were many different occasions prior to national female suffrage occurring when women were granted suffrage in the states--and perhaps even in localities.
I asked because I thought you might be referring to one of those.

Wow (none / 0) (#11)
by Steve M on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:36:56 PM EST

That's a bit fatalistic!


I have confidence in (5.00 / 8) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:40:53 PM EST

Donna Brazile's incompetence.


: my understanding is that she's not part of it (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by diplomatic on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:45:12 PM EST

Donna is no longer going to be part of the meeting on May 31st, right?
I was thinking about Michigan a lot this morning... Chances are that McCain will choose Romney for VP (economic background)
Mitt Romney can help McCain carry Michigan, especially if the Democratic Party wants to pretend they don't exist.

: same here (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by txpolitico67 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:49:58 PM EST

that woman is a huge detriment to the Democratic cause.
she's the one who ran the Gore campaign into the ground, no surprise she's ready to take down the whole Democratic party with her.
And what's more f'd up, is that the Dem leadership gladly sit back and watch. the MINUTE she uttered those words on CNN about rural/blue collar white and latino voters Dean should have come out and REBUTTED those words.
The "RULZ" will be the iceburg that sinks S.S. DNC.

Given the historic (none / 0) (#26)
by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:01:42 PM EST

anniversary for women that is being celebrated during that time frame, it would be amazing if Hillary argued the point herself.

I also be the RBC would never see that one coming!


: Uh, which time frame would that be? (none / 0) (#53)
by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:56:59 PM EST

I know women's history, and some blog or other must be getting some info wrong, as it seems to be spreading.
Now, women made history in 1908, as they have done every year. (And they undoubtedly made history on some May 31st or another, as they make history every day.) But if you are referring to the "century of struggle" for suffrage, 1908 was in the decade that suffragists called "the doldrums," because almost nothing was won.
Then again, we live and learn -- so please do tell to which time frame and event you refer?

BTD, seconded---that is a great idea (none / 0) (#51)
by lookoverthere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:48:29 PM EST

If there is WiFi and my schedule works (5.00 / 6) (#16)
by andgarden on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:48:29 PM EST

I will register and go myself.


Do that (5.00 / 4) (#18)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:50:49 PM EST

and I will let you live blog on my account if J agrees.


Looks like it should be possible (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by andgarden on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:55:51 PM EST

The hotel does have WiFi in the meeting areas, so I'll just have to see if I can get myself there and they have it activated.

Not sure I would really add anything to C-SPAN, except maybe if I can hear Donna's whispers or something.


: Hard to imagine you volunteering (none / 0) (#40)
by oculus on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:46:24 PM EST

to endure a speech from a representative of each and every state.

: andgarden, if you do, I will send you (none / 0) (#52)
by lookoverthere on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:49:51 PM EST

lunch money. Seriously.
Just don't expect to eat anywhere with real silverware.

: If you get a really good digital recorder (none / 0) (#63)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:49:19 PM EST

and point it right at Donna, you may be able to pick things up.
I am always amazed at the residual voices that mine picks up.

Change of venue? (none / 0) (#72)
by MichaelGale on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:54:39 PM EST

I plan on attending the rally with Count the Votes, FDR and Clinton Supporters Count too which was supposed to be at the DNC in Wash DC on the 30th and 31st. However, the meeting is now scheduled to be at the Marriott Wardman which is in the residential part of the city and on 16 acres of land. And....there are no reservations available the 30th and the 31st.

Wonder if the rally can even get close to the action?

Hmmmmmmm


Oh yeah. It will be televised. (5.00 / 3) (#10)
by vicsan on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:36:38 PM EST

Donna Brazille said all of their meetings are open to the public. The MSM will be there for sure. It will be on TeeVee. Their decision will change this election in a HUGE way.

I know I'm not making plans for that day and I've got my popcorn ready!


I am sure it has been predetermined and thats (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by athyrio on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:31:33 PM EST

why Hillary is going to the convention....IMO

Yup. There is no way the outcome (none / 0) (#25)
by nycstray on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:00:20 PM EST

will effect Obama's planned nomination.


: Coronation. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Angel on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:05:40 PM EST

Hillary is going to the mattresses (5.00 / 0) (#14)
by diplomatic on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:42:06 PM EST

Did anyone see her speech from Boca Raton, Florida today? She is becoming a champion of Michigan and Florida.

BTD should have no more complaints about her level of focus on this issue. Just watch the tape.

I saw the video over at Taylor Marsh.

She has been saying since March that (1.00 / 1) (#42)
by Christy1947 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:13:17 PM EST

Obama is unAmerican and undemocratic for not agreeing with her on this. And then insisting that the only solution is to give her exactly what she wants and no compromise will be accepted. I think she is prepared to split the party over it to get what she wants. I do not say that to praise her either.


: Hmm (none / 0) (#64)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:52:51 PM EST

She has been saying...Obama is unAmerican and undemocratic
A link?

Received an email from Howard Dean this (5.00 / 3) (#23)
by Angel on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:56:28 PM EST

morning, starts off with "I've got a joke for you." Then goes into something about John McCain. I didn't even read the email, just sent this back to him:

"Howard. YOU ARE THE JOKE. SEAT FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN ACCORDING TO THE VOTE. YOU ARE A TRAVESTY AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS GOING DOWN IN NOVEMBER UNLESS HILLARY IS THE NOMINEE. DO THE RIGHT THING AND COUNT THE VOTES AND GO WITH THE POPULAR VOTE, THE PEOPLE'S CHOICE."

I know it won't be read, but I am still reeling about this FL and MI fiasco, and I felt better after I hit the SEND button.

: You know what's awesome (none / 0) (#49)
by BrandingIron on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:42:03 PM EST

about being on the John McCain mailing list? His campaign manager (bless his poor ignored heart, LOL) says the EXACT same things that Jeralyn and BTD say here about Barack Obama. As much as I cringed when I signed up for the mailing list on his website (because I'm voting for him if Clinton doesn't get on the ticket), the campaign's emails aren't too bad and not too muckracking.

Email from Donna Brazile (5.00 / 2) (#29)
by Saul on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:09:11 PM EST

I asked her if the meeting would be televized and who would be carry it.

Her reply

All of our meetings have been carried live or taped on CSPAN. Not sure who will pick it up, but I am sure CNN might come.
Donna

Hillary to Obama (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:27:00 PM EST

This is what Hillary's saying. She fully expects Obama to be the nominee, but if he wants her to bow out graciously, Florida and Michigan must be seated.

the problem with that is that a lot of people (none / 0) (#44)
by Christy1947 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:17:34 PM EST

think she would agree to the compromise, get what she wants on FLA and MI and then refuse to bow out. That is the consequence of her signing the pledge not to campaign or participate in rule breaking states, in order to be allowed in in IA, NV SC and NH, and then walking away from that promise once the four primaries/caucuses were over, with FLA and MI, and insisting that their results should be honored despite the rules, once her own promises to uphold those rules were of no further use to her. Now her word is not acceptable for other things as well.


: Huh? That incredibly long sentence (none / 0) (#54)
by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:00:22 PM EST

must mean something, but I can't for the life of me figure it out. Try again.
But remember, you're supposed to be nice. The One told you so.

: By your very description (none / 0) (#56)
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:01:49 PM EST

By your very description, you have demonstrated that Hillary upheld pledge. The promise was not to campaign there prior to them holding their primaries. She did not. What happens afterwards was not part of the pledge.

Florida and Michigan (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by txpolitico67 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:42:58 PM EST

should be the new rallying cry for HRC's supporters. This endeavor coupled with her populist stance will make her candidacy more valid in the eyes of the American people.

Counting votes is as Democratic and American as you can get.

Si Se Puede!

What does Obama gain and/or lose? (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by DaveOinSF on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:58:30 PM EST

What does Obama gain and/or lose by just seating the delegates - even "as is".

Seat Michigan and Florida, and Hillary gains 178 delegates, Obama 67, Edwards 13, and Uncommitted 55. Plus, there are an additional 55 supers, of whom 15 so far support Hillary, 10 Obama and 30 undecided.

In practical terms, most of the Edwards and Uncommitteds will support Obama, so Hillary will at best narrow the pledged delegate gap by 45-55, still not enough to catch Obama. The supers, even if the rest of them break 50/50, will put Obama over the top.

Obama has a lot to lose and little to gain with this game. He's continuing to give Hillary cause to fight on and to alienate her supporters. If he just accepts the delegations and moves on, he wins anyway, and Hillary drops out on June 3. I don't understand why he doesn't do that.

: sd's in MI (none / 0) (#68)
by bigbay on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:25:04 PM EST

are almost all for Hillary. Obama's scolding in Detroit pissed off both the bosses and the UAW.

May 31 is my wedding (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by suisser on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:18:27 PM EST

anniversary, Will I get flowers and choc from the DNC or a unity pony remainder???

There are several groups (none / 0) (#9)
by americanincanada on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:33:59 PM EST

being organized from online blogs, FLorida and Michigan to go to this meeting.

I am betting that the Florida delegation will be seated as is. Not so sure about Michigan.

We are a hung jury (none / 0) (#19)
by nellre on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:53:45 PM EST

Regardless of what the DNC does about FL and MI, the race is in fact a tie.

We're split 50/50

There is no fair way to eliminate either candidate... nor a fair way to chose the nominee.

If they could send all registered dems a ballot, and have them mail back their choice, in an attempt to find out who America really wants... that might work, but it may still come back a tie.

But I'm not registered as a dem anymore...so, never mind.

: In the words of a real Democrat, (5.00 / 2) (#32)
by Makarov on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:22:06 PM EST

that's what the convention is for. Floor vote in Denver. I just pray Hillary will stay in for it.

It Would Be Great To Have Some Repre- (none / 0) (#22)
by PssttCmere08 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:56:07 PM EST

sentation from TL. I wish I could attend. What if we were to all send letters to be presented at the meeting by one of our TL cohorts? Would that be allowable?

Was there a full page ad (none / 0) (#24)
by DJ on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:59:31 PM EST

taken out somewhere in support of Hillary?

: Yes. (none / 0) (#55)
by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:01:29 PM EST

I bet virtual money! (none / 0) (#27)
by ghost2 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:02:04 PM EST

That the committee will act to benefit Obama. They will seat 50% (the most likely event), and give uncommitted to Obama (or the Michigan's silly proposal) so that they have another talking points for 2 months.

Hillary 58 delegate lead (more if uncommitted are NOT given to Obama, and I don't think they should be). A 'compromise' solution will reduce it to as low as possible, say 26 or less.

The most important thing to watch would be the action of the state parties of Florida and Michigan. They may be pressured to accept the said 'compromise' solution. Then, Hillary will be all on her own.

Then we get more deafening chorus on the rulz!

: More Hillary supporters (none / 0) (#31)
by indiependy on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:21:42 PM EST

Actually, there are more Hillary supporters on the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee than there are Obama supporters. At least there were when the decision to strip MI and FL entirely was made. So provided no seats have changed since then, she has 13 supporters on the committee, he has 8, and 9 are undeclared.

: The MI (none / 0) (#47)
by Emma on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:34:15 PM EST

Democratic Party, led by Sen. Levin, is pushing the 69/59 "compromise" -- otherwise known as vote stealing.
AFAICT, nobody is standing up for the voters or counting the votes. All anybody wants to do is broker an "acceptable" solution. That's it. So, yes, it will undoubtedly be some sort of "compromise" "solution".

Thirty Five percent (none / 0) (#34)
by boredmpa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:28:25 PM EST

No more, I hope someone drives that home for MI. That's what the final exit polls showed for Obama, and that is the absolute max he should get for choosing to take himself off the ballot.

Someone should push the 35% number and push 35% of the delegates unless there's regional data with enough info. He should not be rewarded any more than he already has for his strategy in MI.

Chris Dodd mentioned on Tuesday (none / 0) (#35)
by wasabi on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:38:25 PM EST

that the rules committe would probably propose that each of them get half the delegates, 50% to her and 50% to Obama and that he hopes she accepts that judgement.

Dodd (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:41:43 PM EST

has proven to be quite the dolt.


: Heh (none / 0) (#43)
by Steve M on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:15:06 PM EST

You couldn't figure this out when the guy polling at 1% started bellowing during a debate about how unelectable Hillary is?

Dodd is an idiot (none / 0) (#39)
by boredmpa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:44:29 PM EST

Voters will not buy that crap. They'll think it's rigged and that she was bullied by the party leadership. It will keep the "wont vote for Obama" group fairly high and hurt his change narrative/image even more.

More people will stick to the party if FL is seated as is and MI is seated in a fair manner (exit polls). Any non-sniff-test action will cause more defections in Nov.

I'm not voting for Obama anyway, but I'm astounded how stupid the party is being about this.


Disenfranchisment Was Good Enough For the DLC... (1.00 / 2) (#62)
by Rictor Rockets on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:39:00 PM EST

Gee, Terry Mcauliffe had no problems telling Michigan that none of their votes would count in 2004 if they jumped the line. And now we're supposed to believe that the Clinton Clique care so much about voters and their rights now when four years ago, they were prepared to strip them of all those rights if they stepped out of line, back when they were more directly running the DNC?

This has nothing to do with "the voters rights" and everything with trying to salvage Hillary's ineptly run campaign. How can the Hillary supporters talk about "counting every vote" while simultaneously tossing out over 200,000 without blinking is mindboggling to me.


huh? (none / 0) (#73)
by boredmpa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 11:11:30 PM EST

Spare me your concern troll about some irrelevant red herring that I don't know or care about because I'm not a dem bureaucracy wonk.

You can't honestly think I or the voters give a flyin f about the DLC the DNC or any party leader's day to day politics or operations. Because anyone with half a brain that isn't trolling knows that we don't and we wont. Except when it becomes blatantly obvious that millions are being disenfranchised and the leadership is therefor full of morons.

Then we care, then we respond, then we revolt. The issue is voters in MI and FL, period.


: You only care when it helps your gal (none / 0) (#77)
by Rictor Rockets on Mon May 26, 2008 at 11:00:17 AM EST

Then we care, then we respond, then we revolt. The issue is voters in MI and FL, period.

Yes, it is.
And apparently, you have no problems disenfranchising over 200,000, as long as the results go YOUR way, for YOUR candidate.

That Would Bring Real Unity To The Party (none / 0) (#46)
by MO Blue on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:26:01 PM EST

The Dems would deserve to lose big time if they are stupid enough to try that stunt.


it would be hilarious (none / 0) (#36)
by boredmpa on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:39:08 PM EST

If someone re-ran highlights of the original florida meeting. I don't expect that at all, except on fox, but it would be nice.

It's a great news story, if framed correctly, but with the obama-focused media and the current "he's the winner" narrative, what's the chance that the news strongly frames it as a narrative of disenfranchisement that could turn the race into a tie?

It would certainly be in the media's interest to turn it into a tie narrative and push it to the convention.

CONVENTION (none / 0) (#50)
by tedsim on Wed May 21, 2008 at 06:44:11 PM EST

IS IT TRUE THAT IF THEY GO 50-50 ONLY 50 FIFTY %WILL BE ABLE TO VOTE AT CONVENTION?

: Ouch. We can hear you just fine. (none / 0) (#57)
by Cream City on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:03:01 PM EST

Here's What My Cracked Crystal Ball Says: (none / 0) (#59)
by Rictor Rockets on Wed May 21, 2008 at 07:31:44 PM EST

The DNC will sit down, and work out Florida quickly enough. It will probably be something like leave the pop. count as is, but strip the pledge delegates and and supers half a vote. If I remember correctly (and I may not be), the PTB in Florida have signaled that they may be okay with this.

Michigan...Michigan is going to be a mess. Whatever happens, it won't satisfy Hillary, or at least her supporters, and we'll be stuck listening from now until doomsday about how awful and disenfranchising the experience was...all the while, these same people want to keep a straight face about it as they callously throw out 200,000+ votes because it's "unfair to give any of them to Obama". Because it's totally fair to just giftwrap Michigan with a bow and hand it to Hillary.

Sorry, but the superdelegates are not that stupid.

Whatever happens with MI and FL, I'm sure it won't be enough to satisfy the members of Clinton's personality cult. They are some people simply not interested in compromise, merely giving everything to their one candidate despite the fact she took a pledge to enforce the DNC's embargo of those contests.

The fix is in (none / 0) (#67)
by Terry M on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:14:27 PM EST

I have absolutely no confidence that the DNC will do the right thing. None. I wish I could have all the money back I gave the DNC in the past - and the DNC STILL sends me requests for money. I send the envelope back everytime with a note expressing my OUTRAGE over the treatment of Florida, Michigan and Hillary.

I hope Obama names Judas Richardson as his VP - that will make it easier to vote for McCain in the GE.

DNC: Give Hillary a fair shake, or Florida voters like me will bolt to McCain in the fall. Believe it.

Unfortunately, the media working with Obama (none / 0) (#69)
by kenosharick on Wed May 21, 2008 at 08:37:08 PM EST

campaign has set it up so that if Hillary were to pull out the nom, it would be "stealing" in their words. They are always screaming about the ROOLZ, yet Hillary using the rules to gain superdelegates is somehow "stealing." The IGNORANT,Obama loving media has bought this new narrative about him being the nominee since he now has "a majoity of pledge delegates." They are calling it a "milestone." I call it LOAD OF CRAP!!!

It's insane. Dean excluded both States because (none / 0) (#70)
by WillBFair on Wed May 21, 2008 at 09:07:35 PM EST

he knew Obama would loose them. Obama signed the deal for the same reason. He's winning alright, but through nonstop dirty politics, and the party is now a republican creep fest. If there was ever a doubt, they're still fighting to disenfranchise FL, just like the republicans did in 2000.
It's even worse that Obama is so unqualified. He just put his name on everyone else's work. He's wasted political capital with Wright and Bitter Gate. He'll waste a ton more fumbling around in office. Non of his supporters have done a fraction of what the Clintons have. They're not smart enough, and there's really no one he can pick as vp to help him govern. But the far left have never made the connection between brains and results.
When I think of what the Clintons could have accomplished in today's environment, I get so sad.
But I'm trying to be happy for African Americans. They really really want this.
On the other hand, my people have been inconvenienced in this country once or twice. But we would never vote for someone without knowledge and integrity just because he was queer.
http://a-civilife.blogspot.com

Oh good grief. (none / 0) (#75)
by BrandingIron on Thu May 22, 2008 at 09:23:33 AM EST

The Clinton personality cult has been one of the scarier, and ironically projective things I've born witness too in the better part of a decade, honestly. It's very Bush-like.

Folks, that's what's called a (Karl) Rovian Turnaround. A complete falsehood turned from a truth supported by facts. Truth:

The Obama personality cult has been one of the scarier, and ironically projective things I've born witness too in the better part of a decade, honestly. It's very Bush-like.

Facts? There hasn't been a fraction of the number of articles in the mainstream media--or otherwise--about a "Clinton personality cult" this primary season. "Obama personality cult"? Probably would nab dozens of results on Google.

I met with this same kind of Rovian turnaround in 2004, but from insane Bush Republicans. It was disgusting then and it's even MORE disgusting now.