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Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:31:13 AM EST
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I'm off to go hold a "Count the Votes!" sign and/or yell at a cloud.

Have a good Saturday.

This is an Open Thread.

Comments closed

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    Morning Open Thread | 188 comments (188 topical)
    Daniel Schor on NPR (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:35:16 AM EST
    Daniel Schor ( who my mother thought his name was dino saur when he was on tv, I don't blame her, English was her 5th language) without a blink of an eye, accused Hillary of bringing up the assassination and not referring to June.  

    Go figure.  I think my mom was right, he is a Dinosaur.  

    what a bunch of idiots (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:37:57 AM EST
    Stellaaa, I just really believe they were looking for something--anything--to use as the "death knell" cry for Clinton.  They way they pounced on this non-issue, the way they still continue to bring it up even though the newspaper board and RFK, Jr have said it is a non-issue, makes me think they are all just so hysterical to kill her (both literally and figuratively) that they have lost all sight of reason.

    (ot: am I the only one who thinks that's a really bad pic of BTD yelling at the cloud?)

    Parent

    Cloud yelling (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:39:47 AM EST
    cripes now Oprah will have to add it to her repertoire of self help products.

    Parent
    Right after screaming into the pillow :) (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:40:21 AM EST


    Parent
    Tracy, a reply to you from the other thread... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:47:29 AM EST
    At least your child wants to go to Auburn-- I'm glad to hear it! My son knows there's one university (he's five, so it's universty) and that's Auburn!

    Guess where he wants to go-- to where Daddy works!

    Parent

    When they stand on the playground (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:55:47 AM EST
    and holler Auburn at the kids in the red shirts, it's time to prepay tuition.  I'm sort of impressed with Auburn, not knowing a whole lot about education and the area.  One of our snootier friends graduated from Auburn and swears there isn't any other place to go but, I raise show German Shepherds so I send out for boy swimmers when my girls feel loving.  I also have to have hips xrayed and OFA'd, all sorts of stuff. My vet graduated from Auburn and he's pretty impressive with it all.

    Parent
    Auburn, UAB, even (gasp, choke) UAT (none / 0) (#41)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:00:45 AM EST
    are good schools-- they ain't Harvard, but they don't have Harvard cost, either. Have you looked at some of the smaller schools, like Samford and Birmingham Southern?

    I'd say Auburn all the way-- good education, good quality of life, and close. however, one of my colleagues sent his son to Troy State, and he's now a lawyer in some large firm in Atlanta.  Alabama has some good colleges and universities.

    Now, if he's interested in veterinary or agriculture, Auburn's the school, without a doubt!

    Parent

    UAB grad here--and Roll Tide ;) n/t (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by kempis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:26:02 PM EST


    Parent
    heck, and I wanted to like you! (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:28:19 PM EST
    just kidding... congrats.

    6. heh.

    Parent

    I like how close Auburn is to us (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:08:19 AM EST
    It is two hours.  Far enough away that your kids can feel independent but close enough that if they start partying naked all day you can show up.  University of Wyoming had a lot of partying naked problems, usually from kids back east.  I think it had to do with the high altitude.  Poor kids would show up, go immediately to their first party and drink and then always end up naked.....and not even naked with others, just naked :).  Josh is very mathematically inclined.  It is impossible to tell what your kids are going to want to do at this stage but I'm betting something along engineering lines.

    Parent
    Engineering=Auburn in this state (none / 0) (#67)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:16:23 AM EST
    excellent to superior engineering program. Ga tech may have more fame, but a lot of great engineers came from AU-- think of the space program, past and present.

    Also, molecular biology, chemistry, physics, all require superior math.

    Parent

    Well, that sort of cinches it then (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:23:51 AM EST
    It is nice to know that he innately knew where he needed to start pointing himself.  He's a little mathematical brainiac.  I did very well.  They say that "girls" aren't quite as mathematically inclined but I always held my own and was sadly usually one of the few chicks in my classes.  My husband though is frightening.  Flight school for him was like taking sips of water and when he attempts to explain lift and drag to me as I'm white knuckling the airplane armrest I just want him to shut up :)  Josh is like his father already in his aptitude to grasp things mathematical.

    Parent
    I believe that (none / 0) (#91)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:31:01 AM EST
    there's a known genetic marker for degenerative mylopathy now--not from the U of Fla.  I hope breeders check: lost a lovely GSD to that once I could no longer get her in the cart safely.  GSDs have always been my favorite, but I promised my last one I'd never again bring home a big dog I couldn't care for.  Got a Swedish Vallhund instead.

    Parent
    GSD's degenerative myelopathy (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:55:36 AM EST
    It was something that breeders attempted to ignore sadly because some really really great dogs were carrying it and throwing it.  We are getting a lot better about weeding it out finally and being serious about it.  I'm sorry about your dog.  I have never had a dog with it.  Most of my problems continue to be of the skeletal structure variety......it goes hand in hand with the breed and I hear all these arguments that American bred is less defective or German is less defective when in truth they are about the same.  I breed to the American Standard and the Alsatian concept of the herding GSD, so my dogs have the herding gait and the angulation.  Sometimes when people see me walking one of my dogs they'll say, "beautiful dog, too bad about its hips".  Then I tell them that this dog OFA'd Good which is very upper echelon in meeting the OFA criteria and they shrug and look at me like I'm lying through my teeth :)  Oh Well, that's life in the big dog lane.  Don't get to see enough Vallhunds, cute as snot.  Lots of Corgis though lately in the Southeast shows....it's Corgi heaven.

    Parent
    OT dogs and more dogs (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:45:09 PM EST
    My dog was second generation American--only German working line dogs--bred for Shutzhund work.  My first GSD was born in '67--big (140 lbs. est.), straight back, took 2 flea collars to go around his neck.  Excellent dog that went camping and hiking with 30 girls scouts.  My DM dog had a slight 'banana back' sloping rump; I believe that is precisely where the skeletal issues came from. Went to German lines hoping for fewer health issues; did not know temperament differences then.  I still think a GSD without the sloping back moving along at a rapid clip is about the prettiest thing I have ever seen.

    Parent
    My husband brought home (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by magisterludi on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:14:51 PM EST
    a BIG black dog he saw roaming around the interstate. Obviously abandoned. Big Joe weighed 100 lbs when we took him to the vet- and he wasn't fully grown. He ended up at 220 lbs and lived to be about nine.

    Our vet said he was some mastiff- great dane mix (Joe held the largest dawg evah! record at the clinic). When friends would visit, he didn't sniff just crotches- he sniffed armpits.

    I should post pictures. He's been gone 8 years now and I still get misty.

    Parent

    here is a better (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:40:10 AM EST
    pic of BTD.

    Parent
    Kathy, (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:15:12 AM EST
    thank you for the picture of BTD. I'm still chuckling and these days I need all the laughter I can get. That is the picture I will carry in my mind every time I see something he posts. :)

    Parent
    No offense to BTD (none / 0) (#75)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:20:24 AM EST
    But Sam the Eagle reminds me of KO - stern, beaky nose and with a unibrow.

    Parent
    Not me (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:26:44 AM EST
    I always thought Sam was cute.  I never thought Olberman was cute and now I just think he's looney.

    Parent
    Where's his sign? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:40:46 AM EST


    Parent
    doesn't the flag say enough? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:42:16 AM EST
    I mean, he is "tepid" after all.

    Parent
    Not enough. Where's his flag PIN? (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:10:43 AM EST


    Parent
    Great... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:41:48 AM EST
    I always thought of Homer in the Mumu, remember that Image It's the tent thing that gets me.

    Parent
    ling (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:42:28 AM EST
    Homer

    Parent
    Hahaha! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:43:34 AM EST
    Oh, me.  Good thing he's off yelling at clouds.

    Parent
    heh. (none / 0) (#15)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:44:00 AM EST
    excellent!

    Parent
    That is sooooo (none / 0) (#18)
    by kredwyn on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:46:16 AM EST
    him in every way possible.

    Parent
    He looks stoned. (none / 0) (#137)
    by oldpro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:12:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Amazing! (none / 0) (#206)
    by magisterludi on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:16:25 PM EST
    He looks just like I thought he would!

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:41:53 AM EST
    but now the Obama supporters are starting to squeal because it sounds like he was accusing Hillary of wanting him gone. It's kind of going back full circle.

    Personally, I think that they are afraid of the decision on the 31st and want to drive her out of the race by then. Forget about it.

    Frankly, if I were Bill, I would start calling every Dem in the party and tell them exactly what I thought of them and threatening to leave the party. What Obama did was beneath contempt. They should have stayed out of it.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by RJBOSTON on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:54:04 AM EST
    Hillary should make a statement telling the media and the Obama camp that they are distgusting for twisting the meaning of her statement. And would love it if she said that the democratic party abandoned her so she'll leave the race for the democratic nomination. But she will not abandon the american people and will run as an independant. I get a thrill up my leg thinking about it ;-)

    Parent
    I wish she pushed back... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Marco21 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:02:32 AM EST
     on this ridiculous assassination  BS and ripped those pushing it a new one.

    People are deliberately misreading it to help Obama and the hypocrisy is too much for me to bear.

    I don't know why she continues to support a party that has gone out of its way to insult her and voters (well, its leaders have) but I wouldn't vote for her as an Indy. Not this time around anyway.

    Parent

    The best way of pushing back (none / 0) (#71)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:19:20 AM EST
    would be to continue to the analogy at every opportunity

    Parent
    She mentioned June and Bobby... (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Marco21 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:49:31 AM EST
    before and no one wet their pants. For whatever reason this time people felt the need to deliberately mislead and smear her.

    I wonder why? Slow day in hope and change land?

    Parent

    but THIS time (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:03:55 PM EST
    Obama needed something to distract from his flip flops on Cuba and Iran - and his lack of foreign policy experience. (And of course continue his goal to force Hillary out.)

    Rove was good at this. Whenever he knew negative news about the Bush admin would be surfacing, he'd make an obnoxious statement and the media would focus on that.

    Parent

    Slow news weekend -- maximizes (none / 0) (#177)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:45:05 PM EST
    impact as it drags on and on for days.

    Upside of Fridays is that they're good for document dumps, for hiding stuff, especially over longer holiday weekends; regular media staff aren't back until Tuesday, when there will be real news again (with government offices -- police, sheriffs, etc., locally, state patrol, feds -- and businesses open again).

    Downside of Fridays, especially over longer holiday weekends, is that stories normally here and gone can linger on for lack of other news.  Note that the major media frenzy of the Princess Di death was on a Labor Day weekend, so cable went nuts with it for days -- and then it took on a life of its own.

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#194)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:01:53 PM EST
    But many people won't be watching TV this weekend, so hopefully this will die out before next week.

    Parent
    Promise (1.80 / 5) (#53)
    by uncledad on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:09:22 AM EST
    Frankly, if I were Bill, I would start calling every Dem in the party and tell them exactly what I thought of them and threatening to leave the party.

    That be just fine with me, maybe the Clintons could join Lieberman and back McSame, based on many of the comments on this site I believe many of HRC's supporters are closet conservatives anyway! Didn't Hillary opine about how qualified the old grumpy guy was? Maybe she could be his running-mate!

    Parent

    Just Another Parrot IMO n/t (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:11:40 AM EST


    Parent
    If Hagel is on Obama's shortlist, (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by samanthasmom on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:15:27 AM EST
    why not a Democrat VP for McCain? BTW, if Obama considers choosing a Republican for VP, that means that he says that it's OK to vote for Republicans, right?

    Parent
    The fact that Obama said (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:57:06 AM EST
    he would consider Repubs in his cabinet, and his praise of Repubs and bashing of Dems (if Dems are so bad, why would I vote for them?) and, and, and....told me it was ok to vote for Repubs.

    Parent
    Go vote (3.00 / 2) (#187)
    by uncledad on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:56:40 PM EST
    You can vote for whoever you like, this is America, I believe it is in our bill of rights!

    Parent
    Hagel (1.00 / 1) (#183)
    by uncledad on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:49:57 PM EST
    Big difference between Obama picking a progressive republican as his running mate and a democrat running on a right wingnut neocon ticket.

    And since when did Obama say he was considering Hagel? You watch to much FAUX, don't believe everything you see, hear or read!

    Parent

    Hagel Is NOT, I Repeat NOT, A Progressive (none / 0) (#207)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:17:03 PM EST
    Republican. He is an extremely conservative Republican who has verbally stated his opposition to continuing a long term occupation of Iraq but who often still voted in lock step with Bush on this issue when it counted.

    Parent
    Hagel? Progressive? (none / 0) (#208)
    by magisterludi on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:19:59 PM EST
    How many moons orbit your planet?

    Parent
    the question is (none / 0) (#96)
    by seesdifferent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:35:51 AM EST
    who is providing the financial backing for this destructive campaign? from the FEC filings, it's not small donors, and the big donors don't usually back losers, unless they have some ulterior motive. FEC reports suggest the money is coming from Washington, which means lobbyists or ?. To what end?

    Parent
    Small donors aren't backing Obama's (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by RalphB on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:41:01 AM EST
    campaign?  His is the only destructive campaign at this time.

    Parent
    I e-mailed Hillary yesterday (none / 0) (#23)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:48:17 AM EST
    and asked her please to run on an independent ticket.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#29)
    by rnibs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:50:56 AM EST
    Politics of distraction.

    Also, I don't really watch TV that much.  It's not clear to me, did Obama actually make a comment that what she was suggesting was inappropriate, or was it just his surrogates.

    Somewhere I got the impression that he himself had commented on it, but I'm not sure.

    Parent

    As Far As I Know (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by flashman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:14:31 AM EST
    he has not commented, but like you, I'm off the TV right now.  At this point, I'm saving my comtempt for the media, who has played up this non-story as though it is something important, expeciall the ever more unhinged Keith Bloberman.  I caught the end of his program last night.  It was one of the most disgraceful media specticals I've ever seen.  One thing about his red-eye, spittling diatribe that stood out; he said, "This image should not be invoked, EVER."  We're living in China now, not able to discuss history that King Bloberman has deemd prohibited.  Man, the media is so far out of bounds these days.

    Parent
    One of the staffers has made (none / 0) (#84)
    by kredwyn on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:25:42 AM EST
    a statement. I think the guy's a high level staffer.

    Parent
    Bill Burton, spokesman. (none / 0) (#93)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:32:19 AM EST
    A statement came out pretty fast.  

    I hope Obama doesn't comment.  Can you imagine?  "Senator Obama, do you think Senator Clinton is waiting for you to die?"  Sheesh.

    Parent

    I watched two minutes... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Marco21 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:57:08 AM EST
    of his show and had to change it. What an embarrassment.

    Parent
    clearly, they're still worried (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by kempis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:46:47 AM EST
    After blowouts in WV and KY, if Hillary does really well in Puerto Rico, she may in fact end the primaries with a popular vote lead.

    I honestly think the DNC is orchestrating this end game as much as possible, and Obama has enough pledged delegates for remaining undeclares superdees to put him over the top--no matter what happens in the remaining primaries.

    BUT they must be worried about something, and the only thing I can see that they'd be worried about is that Hillary could win the popular vote and someone in the media who isn't Obama's bestest buddy might actually note that fact.

    If she does, it won't threaten his nomination, but it makes him appear a less stronger candidate--because he is. So, and I may be really wrong about all this, it looks to me like much the battle right now is to keep it possible for people to imagine clothes for the emperor. If his opponent gets the most popular votes, a nomination-by-delegates-only may look like a fig leaf.

    Parent

    bleah--sorry for typos (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by kempis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:48:50 AM EST
    There are several due to arthritic fingers but one due to a brain cramp: "less stronger." To which I say to myself, "WTF?"

    Parent
    :-) Not to worry... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by sleepingdogs on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:30:02 AM EST
    ...it happens to all of us.  Your ideas were still clearly conveyed.

    Parent
    The pop vote is irrelevant (1.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Seth90212 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:00:53 AM EST
    I don't understand this argument. Who cares? Besides, your pop vote total is going to be at variance with someone else's.

    There are only 200 SD's left. Unless Hillary can corral all of them, this contest is over. She will not corral even half of them. If trends continue, she'll be lucky to get 5% of them.

    Not that it matters, but PR may not be the pop vote goldmine for Hillary that some believe. PR is not Mexico. It is a Caribbean country whose most popular citizen (Tito Trinidad) is a black man who could pass for Obama's brother. Besides, for the most part, Latinos everywhere are beginning to consolidate behind Obama.


    Parent

    Once again, from the beginning, (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:02:45 AM EST
    please site some evidence (other than in Ca) that shows the Latino vote swinging his way. Please post new stuff, or go home!!

    Parent
    post some new stuff? (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by seesdifferent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:40:12 AM EST
    if you take a look at the posts in this thread, you will find sameness.

    Parent
    This thread is respectful, informative (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:53:16 AM EST
    and smart. If being for Sen. Obama means resorting to disrespect, vile remarks, trying to control the conversation, making insulting remarks, then I'm glad I'm not supporting Sen. Obama. Others are here. Please, if for no other reason than that, please be respectful.

    Parent
    Over at SurveyUSA (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Valhalla on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:10:35 PM EST
    McCain's leading Obama 49-42% in California's Hispanic demo.

    Parent
    Use the Google yourself (none / 0) (#54)
    by Seth90212 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:09:55 AM EST
    Obama is doing very well among Latinos in all the states with large Latino populations. This is especially true in a match up with McCain. As you may recall, Obama beat or nearly tied Hillary among Latinos in some states. This has mostly been a name recognition problem for Obama, and not some racial schism between blacks and Latinos which some Hillary supporters have gleefully postulated.

    Parent
    You've got to be kidding me! (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:25:17 AM EST
    I live in Tejas. The divide is among younger Latinos. The middle and older Latino votes still are Hillary's. My guess is that like many of us, they will, in the end, be just as ticked off as some of us are and not vote Obama. One more note, please, when you add to this post, please add what Obama is for, not what Hillary is against. (IMHO)

    Parent
    Obama is now doing better than Clinton (1.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Laureola on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:58:45 AM EST
    in CA - thus finally crushing the "big state" myth

    In addition, he is surpassing McCain in Ohio and PA.  Their trend lines are going in opposite directions.

    Parent

    Hillary also is winning in PA (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:01:19 PM EST
    and OH against McCain (media reporting yesterday). In Ca a dem will win anyway!!!

    Parent
    Obama is also beating McCain (none / 0) (#188)
    by mattt on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:56:43 PM EST
    in PA and OH, according to the most recent polls.  If history is any guide he'll get a healthy bump once the nomination is settled.

    I live in CA and McCain has no hope here in November, against either Dem.  None.

    Parent

    According to one poll. (none / 0) (#134)
    by masslib on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:10:49 PM EST
    Rasmaussen has her and JE at 54-38 in CA.

    Parent
    Sweetie Alert! (none / 0) (#179)
    by otherlisa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:46:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Also a country (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by befuddled on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:08:52 PM EST
    where one of Obama's superdelegates was indicted March 23 on mail fraud and various other no-nos, ver much like Rezko. It was a 3-year investigation so preceded this campaign, but there are enough correspondences for any smear ad that someone wanting to play the Latino card (please God, let's not go there)could use. I didn't even know that until yesterday when I was Googling around.

    Parent
    Down With The People! (none / 0) (#97)
    by flashman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:36:48 AM EST
    izzat the new political slogan?

    Parent
    I'm glad she called them out on that VP (none / 0) (#35)
    by Joan in VA on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:54:59 AM EST
    vote suppression scheme. They must be worried as you say.

    Parent
    Obama uses Rovian tactics to distract (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:05:57 AM EST
    Newsweek poll: Obama struggles with White voters

    Obama: Hey - look over there! --------->> let's demonize Hillary!

    Another motive to distract - speaking to Cuban leaders yesterday in Miami, Obama flip flopped on his 2004 campaign position supporting ending the Cuba embargo.


    Parent

    Fox actually called Obama on that (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:16:58 AM EST
    and showed videos, then and now, of the flip-flop.

    I continue to be freeked by this parallel universe in which Fox really is the fair and balanced network -- by comparison, anyway.  I keep wondering if everything really will return to normal after November, or will my worldview as well as my world be forever changed.  It's the endtimes for a nooz junkie.

    Parent

    The balance will change as soon as the (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:25:59 AM EST
    democratic convention is over.

    These slow leaks the media is releasing of how Obama's campaign tactics are representative of what a lousy leader he is will begin in earnest the day the democrats begin their convention and won't have the manpower available to fight back.

    They are carefully selecting some very damaging clips and not making much of them, yet. I'm sure that if he is the nominee, they have done this to show they were always giving the viewers what they needed to make an informed decision.


    Parent

    Has anyone else noticed that (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:30:08 AM EST
    Obama, non-leader that he appears to be, when photographed on the (use deep voice here) "campaign trail" looks not presidential, but above it all, loving the attention, not interested in creating good sound bites to help his cause, just I'm it, I'm great, I'm chosen, I'm I'm, I'm.  

    Parent
    Obama Is Creating Sound Bites (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:38:04 AM EST
    and the Republicans are very grateful for them. Dueling visions on Cuba, dueling visions on Iran all within a 24 hour period etc. Kerry will look very consistent by comparison.

    Parent
    want to kill HRC? (none / 0) (#117)
    by seesdifferent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:00:44 PM EST
    you are out of bounds there.

    Parent
    MCMers have been referred to as Villagers by (none / 0) (#55)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:10:21 AM EST
    Somerby, not only bcz of the insular nature of working in a company town for many of them, but also a reference to the Village of the Damned (which became Village of the Damned Idiots in the blogosphere) where strange children are born who seem learn and communicate telepathically.

    Our Damned Idiots sometimes seem to be nearly insensate beings whose thoughts are sent out by controllers: the main thought goes out, and they all parrot it. With increasing rapidity and similarity as time goes by.

    Even Daniel Schorr! This is not the first time, btw, that he has been caught up in Villager conventional wisdom this primary or in other news reporting. And it kills me. I knew him when he could buck the trends....

    They are Borg-like in their inability to have original thoughts, and that has spread into the left blogosphere. Those not accepting the New Wisdom must be expelled. Exterminate! Exterminate!

    Hey, whatever works! I didn't think if would happen here, but, then, I did ignore human nature. Movement politics itself is Borg-like--just try to be a contrarian commenter at any blog where the strongest voices in comments have "seen the light." Even contrarians of long-standing are either ignored or blasted. So sad.

    Now, the MCM and increasingly Blogger Boyz have something in common with both Pod People and the telepathic mind-controlling children of Village of the Damned, along with the Borg. We do know that this manner of thinking seems to take over already mature adults, so...which metaphor works best?

    From Wiki about the 1960 movie: They dress impeccably, always walk as a group, speak in a very adult way, are very well-behaved... but they show no conscience or love and demonstrate a coldness to others. SNIP They begin to exhibit the power to read minds when expedient, or to force people to do things against their will, the latter accompanied by an alien glow in the children's eyes. SNIP

    ...the children are all placed in a separate building where they will learn and live. Gordon [Village leader] learns that the Soviets have used nuclear weapons to destroy their village containing the mutant children. As the children's evil nature becomes more and more clear to Gordon, he takes a hidden time-bomb to what he expects to a session with the children, and tries to block their awareness of the bomb by visualising a brick wall. His "son" David scans his mind - showing an emotion (astonishment) for the first time - "You're not thinking of atomic energy, you're thinking of ... a brick wall!" The children exert force to try to break down Gordon's mental wall to learn what he is hiding from them. They discover his actions just a moment before the bomb detonates.

    The final scene is ambiguous and could be interpreted as the survival of the children in non-corporeal form. Their glowing eyes appear in the debris of the flaming building and move out of shot.

    Cue eerie music....

    (Note: I am not advocating the bombing of MCM locations. Practically speaking, there are too many, and, more importantly, I don't believe in that kind of violence. Just making this clear, m'kay?)

    Parent

    Obamamites are so much like Bushies (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:22:40 AM EST
    hyping disinformation and engaging in character assassinations for the purpose of "winning."

    This latest stunt by Obama exploiting Robert Kennedy's death, coupled with the many physical threats of violence from Obamamites and media pundits toward Hillary -takes hypocrisy to a whole new level.


    Parent

    tell us about threats to HRC? (1.00 / 3) (#106)
    by seesdifferent on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:43:29 AM EST
    and how the assassination issue was a stunt by Obama?

    Parent
    Non-issue (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:04:56 PM EST
    jumped on by Obama's resident sleaze Bill Burton.  Faux outrage is the Obama modus operandi.

    Interesting strategy for the primary but I don't think the whine strategy is going to work on indies and repubs for the GE.

    I know I got sick of the Obama campaign's whining very early.  It was a demonstration of a weak candidate.  People don't complain about it as much because we have learned to tune it out.

    Parent

    Obama Making Hay (none / 0) (#147)
    by daring grace on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:21:24 PM EST
    out of Sen. Clinton's comment?

    I don't see it.

    I hear a lot of other pundits, bloggers et al keeping this alive.

    But aside from Burton's comment which read to me like political boiler plate-and I've seen similar ones out of Clinton's campaign when he gets embroiled in something-the only other comment I heard was Axelrod's on Hard Ball where he refused to get sucked into a pile on.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=SfSCLZbRQKA&feature=user

    Has Obama or someone else in his campaign said something other than these two comments? maybe I missed it.

    Parent

    Obama issued one sentence - (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:07:16 PM EST
    Hillary's remarks had no place in the campaign (something like that).

    Obama interpreted Hillary's comments as "bad" and his followers and the media took it from there - interpreting it as Hillary suggesting physical harm to Obama.

    Obama appears above the frey while Obamedia and Obamamites spread disinformation. Perhaps they'd have some credibility if any of them had once denounced the many violent threats against Hillary by media pundits and Obama bloggers.
    But instead - they encourage it with their vitriol against her.

    Parent

    I Guess Where We Differ (none / 0) (#209)
    by daring grace on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:31:03 PM EST
    (aside from which candidates we support) is that I draw a distinction between the candidates, their 'official' campaigns (i.e. their spokespeople and recognized surrogates like supers and spouses) and the zillions of people in the punditocracy, blogosphere etc with two bit opinions and an abundance of free time.

    As an Obama supporter, I don't hold Senator Clinton responsible for the verbal excesses of her supporters although I do repudiate some of those excesses just as I do the excesses of Obama zealots.

    Frankly, online, I'm never sure if it IS a Clinton or Obama supporter or rather some Repub mischief maker or even some random nutcase.

    As for the Obama campaign's one line statement: It reminds me (as I said before) of such statements  the Clinton campaign has issued when Obama said something that was leapt on by the media--like the "bitter" comments which he later said were a misstatement.

    I didn't like it when she made hay out of it, but I understand it. It's politics. Considering Axelrod's later comment, their campaign has reacted pretty neutrally.

    And you know what? That's probably politics too. They know they don't have to--the media and blogosphere is running with this. But also it seems to me their plan right now is to try and find conciliatory ground going into the May 31 DNC meeting and their expectation to win the nomination. It looks to me like they're working pretty hard not to pick fights with Senator Clinton right now.

    Parent

    Obamamites' violent threats to Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:19:08 PM EST
    All you need to do is read Obama blogs and watch TV. Remember the 'fatal attraction' comment this week?
    But foremost is the hatemongering for Hillary spewed by those site owners and the consequential comments advocating violence toward Hillary.
    Oh - those comments may later be "hidden" - but the site owners continue inciting hate.

    Obama benefiting himself by exploiting Robert Kennedy's death is just another Obama Drama to demonize Hillary.
    He did the same with Hillary's historical comment about LBJ and MLK, Jr.
    And Bill Clinton's remark about Jesse Jackson.
    And Hillary citing exit polling data that the white working class doesn't support Obama.

    Lots of faux outrage over nothing - but the elite Washington establishment and media supporting Obama hype it and on cue Obamamites follow.

    Obama's reactionary remarks are very immature and non-presidential.

    Parent

    and KO's diatribe about (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:22:18 PM EST
    taking Hillary in a back room and she doesn't come back out~

    Parent
    Didn't Jeralyn ask (none / 0) (#185)
    by mattt on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:53:48 PM EST
    not to discuss the RFk reference?

    I'll raise a question about the point Clinton was supposedly trying to make: that nomination contests often go deep into the Summer - whether the example is 1968 or the really more applicable examples of 1980 and 1984.

    How did the general election go for the Dem candidates in each of those years?

    Does anybody care about that anymore?

    Parent

    Thanks to you (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:38:39 AM EST
    I'm going to have Vitameatavegamin in my head all day!

    That's Vita-meata-vegamin (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:51:35 AM EST
    It's so tasty too!!!

    Parent
    Ha..ha... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:40:10 AM EST
    was that your first time?  

    Parent
    hell no (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by andgarden on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:44:41 AM EST
    Lucy is timeless.

    Parent
    I was going to walk around the lake (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:47:37 AM EST
    but it is already too hot here and with the humidity and two miles......well, I'm going to have to start at 7:00 am now.  I have to go to a toddler birthday today and it is too late to give myself poison ivy.  I don't have any toddlers anymore, why am I still being invited to these birthdays.......hmmmmmmm?

    Are you nuts (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:48:47 AM EST
    just buy a toy that makes really obnoxious noise, they will never invite you again.  

    Parent
    My 2 Kids Are 14 Months Apart (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:03:37 AM EST
    I was 8 months pregnant with my daughter and my dad bought my 13 month old son a large parrot for Xmas that had this gawd awful obnoxious squawk. My son loved that parrot and the sound drove me completely up the wall.

    Come to think of it the sound that parrot made reminds me a lot of the Obama supporters over at the big orange and on MSNBC.   Just as shrill and obnoxious IMO.

    Parent

    I could just give them Josh's parrot (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:12:58 AM EST
    Birds have always loved my son but not me.  I used to babysit for people who had one sent from South America and he hated me.  He was allowed to fly free in the house and would leave his perch the minute I opened the door and swoop at my head.......ick!  I held out for as long as could but finally I agreed that my son could have a bird.  We got a handfed baby quaker parrot.  He/she is cute as heck, friendly and comical, but so noisy at times that I think the bird could mysteriously disappear.

    Parent
    Not Clear In My Original Comment (none / 0) (#88)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    It was toy parrot that was as big as my 13 month old son. It walked around the house squawking loudly with each step. I tried removing the batteries but that only made my son squawk. Needlessly to say, my dad was not my favorite person when the bird was doing its thing.

    Parent
    God, I wish "brother" was only a toy! (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:13:46 PM EST
    "Brother" is a mommy guilt loaded bird too.  Josh wants a brother but his mom told him that she was retiring from baby making.  So we bring this little bird home and with great big guilt loaded eyes Josh names him "brother".  I'm stuck with this bird for life :)

    Parent
    Lake Tholocco? (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:50:52 AM EST
    It was empty last time i was there, lol, the dam broke!

    Parent
    Our subdivision has a couple of lakes (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:00:13 AM EST
    we live on the biggest one and if you walk the road around it, it is two miles.  The whole neighborhood walks it.  We are the walkinest neighborhood, but I notice today that it got hot fast and we were all behind the powercurve.

    Parent
    Shouldn't Obama be in PR, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by lilburro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:52:05 AM EST
    Montana, SD?  

    If my opponent was pushing a popular vote argument hinging on PR, I would want to get a lot of votes in PR.

    He is in PR. (none / 0) (#120)
    by Laureola on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:03:11 PM EST
    eom

    Parent
    First rain in almost 2 months (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Stellaaa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:52:42 AM EST
    now that they declared drought and cut me back to 19% even though I have done every PC thing in the last three years, I still get cut and all that the people with big lawns have to do is top watering the lawn.  So much for being earth friendly.  

    but, they're in the creative class, and they have (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:55:48 AM EST
    to give up their LAWNS!
    Oh, the humanity!

    Parent
    Nah, if Richardson has his way (none / 0) (#77)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:22:32 AM EST
    they'll just creatively drain my Great Lakes, further lowering the worrisome water level, so that lawns will live in the Southwest while our fish and fowl and tourism industry dies.  This is a huge issue in this area, the Great Lakes compact among many states and Canada to save our extraordinary natural resource as large, all together, as an ocean.

    Reason number one why Richardson, after that quote that so angered us here, cannot be on the ticket: Dems will need the Great Lakes states.  Add to that Obama's geographical confusion, in which he put one of our Great Lakes in Oregon, and the GOP can have a field day with funny attack ads here.

    Parent

    Wow did I ever miss something that Richardson (none / 0) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:15:25 PM EST
    has said.  I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Parent
    As our leading local blogger (none / 0) (#190)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:57:20 PM EST
    on the environment wrote back then, last fall:

    Richardson is a Democratic presidential candidate who is also auditioning for his party's vice-presidential nod. But he's has hurt his standing in the heavily-Democratic Great Lakes cities -- Chicago, Detroit, Gary, Milwaukee, Cleveland and others.  Throwing "Bill Richardson Great Lakes" into the Google search engine produces 921,000 hits.  Not all are about this controversy, but relevant listings still show up on the 66th page: a big and embedded gaffe for Richardson to overcome - - and a continuing boost to efforts to push the Compact forward where stalled, including Wisconsin.

    Here's the quote, with more Midwest commentary:

    . . . .Richardson told a Las Vegas newspaper that he would bring northern states into the discussion of how to help water-starved states in the Southwest. . . .  "I believe the Western states and Eastern states have not been talking to each other when it comes to proper use of our water resources," he told the Las Vegas Sun.  "I want a national water policy. We need a dialogue between states to deal with issues like water conservation, water reuse technology, water delivery and water production.  States like Wisconsin are awash in water."

    The water levels of the Great Lakes have dropped, and local politicians have lashed out at the proposed "water-sharing" plans of Richardson. Lake Superior's September average level was 1.6 inches lower than the previous record for the month set in 1926. Huron and Michigan are losing water three times faster than previously believed, according to a study by a Canadian group.

    "Don't get us wrong. Mr. Richardson and his constituents in New Mexico are welcome to reasonable use of Great Lakes water," said Hugh McDiarmid Jr. of the Michigan Environmental Council. . . .  "All they have to do is move to the Great Lakes region. They'll be free to enjoy all our best beaches, trout streams and great-tasting municipal water."

    Reporter Jim Lynch of the Detroit News reports that U.S. Rep. Candice Miller, R-Harrison Township [said] . . ."It's outrageous, but not surprising," Miller said of Richardson's comments. "I've heard members of Congress from that part of the country express similar sentiments, so we need to be extremely vigilant.  The unfortunate reality is we are continuing to lose political clout with each census update. And a lot of that clout is going to places in the Southwest."



    Parent
    Oh Boy! (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:06:03 PM EST
    I'm from Colorado and we have known about our water problems for a very very very long time and we have failed to take those problems seriously ourselves or do anything REAL about them.  If the area will not support any more growth that's the facts of life.  My family ranches east of Colorado Springs and has had to redrilled all of our wells because the aquifer continues to drop due to overuse.  So the answer is to rob someone else and not deal with our own problems?  Oh Boy!

    Parent
    Anybody (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:04:49 AM EST
    see the article in Politico where they talk about McCain's likely EC blowout against Obama? The GOP seems to be pretty confident they can win against him especially since his disenfranchisement of MI.

    They also state that the increase in the AA vote would only amount to 1% at the most in states, a margin that could easily be overcome.

    Paul Maslin, a dem pollster, said that this is the year we couldn't lose but apparently we might.

    Altogether now: The DNC wants to lose apparently.

    Link? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:09:14 AM EST
    Nothing new, really.  I mean, we've been saying this same thing for months here.  Now that they think Obama has it wrapped up, they are suddenly "realizing" that he has problems?   I don't think so.  they've known all along; they've just been waiting until they think he's the nominee to spring it.

    Let's see what happens, though, because if this was over, Clinton would be home now.  I think that both candidates have been told that there is a certain metric they must reach in order to win.  Otherwise, the SDs would have ended this a long time ago.

    Parent

    Saw that.. (none / 0) (#83)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:25:27 AM EST
    I liked the Repubs statement... no disrespect to the other candidates, but if it was anyone other than McCain, we'd be toast.

    There was also a piece by Chuck Todd (thru RCP) about what a loss would mean to the Repubs and the Dems.  Amazing that articles are being written about the Dems losing.

    [If Obama loses, then it's because he lost it somehow. Maybe it'll be because he's too easily painted as an elitest. Maybe it'll be because he doesn't seem up to the job. Or maybe it'll simply be a function of racism.]

    BTDs has the media darling theory.  I have/had the 'what gets the most ratings' theory.  The best story line was to take out the Clinton's and then take out the Dems.  gasp how could they lose.

    I laughed when I was this from Chuck Todd:

    [The Clintons, and now Obama, have become catnip for the media and a divisive "he said, they said" fight about how the Democrats lost the unloseable election will actually mask likely gains for the party on the House and Senate level.]

    Oh the drama, oh the angst... losers.

    Parent

    Latest Flap Follows Ferraro Dynamic Exactly (5.00 / 8) (#49)
    by Bob Boardman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:08:02 AM EST
    The pattern of this latest flap follows exactly the the Ferraro Dust up months ago.

    Innocuous statement - Obama camp twists the meaning and gets "offended" - press piles on - Olberman goes apoplectic.

    This was not even a gaffe. This was just a simple statement of historical fact, which she had stated numerous times before without any problems.

    It is scary how the truth has been twisted....

    Because "some" are afraid (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:11:11 AM EST
    that the "truth shall set us free" They still think they can tell us what they think we want to hear, like were stupid! Speaking for myself, I'm very educated, extremely street smart, and I'm not falling for their stuff this time!! We need true and gifted leaders, not peter pans.

    Parent
    Correction: I'm not "accepting" their (none / 0) (#59)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:12:10 AM EST
    stuff this time!!!

    Parent
    There Is No Truth. There Is No History (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:22:38 AM EST
    There is only "Obama is the ONE" and "Hillary is evil."

    Heck the Republicans and the media were very successful in rewriting history as far as Reagan was concerned and Obama seems determined to mirror all things Reagan. He has also tried to rewrite history on the economical aspects of the "Clinton Years" and the Republicans are very grateful for him taking up this mantra.

    Parent

    Started well before Ferraro--that was so obvious- (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:38:04 AM EST
    May have started in January with attacks on Hillary for mentioning MLK, JFK, and LBJ in the same thought. Recall that one?

    Were there earlier examples?

    The blogs at the time of the Hillary Dissed MLK!-She Said LBJ More Important Than MLK! dust storm* did not get fully swept up in the MCM tsunami attack wave, but some did. I remember having to type over and over and over again the basic facts of what happened in the 60's. It was infuriating, bcz the point would be made, some would accept it, then another wave of Hillary slimers would post. It was awful.  But, back then, not everyone had "seen the light," and many remained in the Reality-Based Community. Now, not so much. Anything goes, as long as it seems to aid their Chosen One and attacks Hillary.

    *Dust Storm may fit more than tsunami: There's lots of windy bloviating and an incredible amount of dust stirred up, making it difficult to see what's really going on. Most often the dust includes lots of dried manure.

    Welcome to movement politics--with Borg-like attributes.

    Let's see: MLK/JFK/LBJ dust storm
    Hillary Implied Obama Was A Muslim (60 Minutes)
    Bill Compared BO to JJackson Sr!
    Bill Called BO Primary Success a "Fairy Tale" (prior to MLK dust storm)
    I have forgotten so many--know there are more...

    Parent

    Exactly, she clearly should not apolobize (none / 0) (#62)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:14:12 AM EST


    Parent
    This HRC backer is a little depressed (none / 0) (#73)
    by brodie on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:19:43 AM EST
    and a bit cranky about this latest.  I'm sort of where HRC supporter Hilary Rosen is on this one.  (btw, I read to my semi-astonishment that she's just been named the new Political Director at HuffPo ... not sure what to make of that)

    One silver lining for me, a firm non-supporter of the Faux Unity Ticket nonsense, is that this incident tends to make it even less likely such a pairing will occur.

    I also tend to agree with RFK Jr about when this contest will end officially.  

    Meanwhile, I'm still weighing my options about not voting the top of the ticket here in NoCal in protest of how Hillary was bashed in by the sexists in the Obama camp and the MSM, as our party and Obama remained silent.

    Parent

    No VP (none / 0) (#92)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:31:08 AM EST
    That's why I think they did it.  Michael Goodwin, normally a little rational had a full case of CDS on Lou Dobbs last night.  No VP!  she can't be considered after this comments!  Ed Rollins on the other hand eh, she's tired and misspoke.  Zimmerman was exasperated at the over-reaction.
    Kitty went 'really?' when Goodwin went off.

    I expect Goodwin will have a rant equal to KO's special comment.

    Parent

    Leave Michelle Alone (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:16:23 AM EST
    Was over at No Quarter and came across this interesting sign from Obama HQ dated Oct of last year.

    How does he think he can get away with making her words and beliefs out of bounds?!

    They're going to try (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    Michelle is a player though....has made herself one and is out on the campaign trail and doing interviews about politics not cookie recipes.  She isn't off limits but they will at least try.

    Parent
    The point is not...... (none / 0) (#125)
    by Laureola on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:05:58 PM EST
    ....to make her out of bounds.  It's to make lies and slander about her out of bounds - "wifeboating." if you will.  

    Parent
    yeah, right... (none / 0) (#127)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:08:16 PM EST
    want to buy some property?

    Parent
    Still cleaning off my laptop... (5.00 / 5) (#72)
    by OrangeFur on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:19:23 AM EST
    ... after the huge amount of stupid that splattered out of the screen yesterday.

    I remember doing this after the Drudge photo stupid eruption, the Mickey Kantor stupid eruption, the "3 am ad is racist" stupid eruption any number of false race-baiting stupid eruptions.

    Misc. Article of Interest for the Open Thread (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by DFLer on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:24:59 AM EST
    Activist wants Bush arrested on arrival [for GOP Convention]

    Minneapolis activist will ask that President Bush be tried for war crimes. Ed Felien wants Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman to convene a grand jury.

    Strib article

    Rasmussen bamboozles (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Josey on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:52:52 AM EST
    Rasmussen headlined PA poll - Obama 45 - McCain 43.
    But Hillary 50 - McCain 39 - is buried in 7th paragraph!

    No Quarter
    http://tinyurl.com/4fdqvv

    Where did they have (1.00 / 2) (#124)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:05:46 PM EST
    the McCain-Edwards matchup?

    Parent
    disempowered (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by nellre on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:01:56 PM EST
    I hate feeling this way, but that's how I'm feeling right now. Disempowered.
    It makes it feel so much worse when Obama followers gloat over it.
    It makes it 10 times worse when Obama followers intentionally misconstrue this statement by HRC, invent some significance to attach to it, and stick it in my eye.

    I'm thinking I'm not alone...
    I can't go to Denver to protest... so I'm thinkin' of other ways to voice my displeasure so I don't feel so doggone powerless.

    Obama supporters that gloat or use bully (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by jeffhas on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:29:49 PM EST
    tactics have caused some of the most damage.

    How do you vote for a candidate after being threatened, extorted, and told how low-info and racist you are for supporting your candidate?

    I still think if McCain somehow makes an appeal to HRC supporters like me - humbly takes his straight talking/cross party lines argument directly to me, I might not just 'stay home' from the Presidential voting.  I don't think I could stand 4 years of Obama arrogance.

    Separately, if his appeal played into the fact that as Democrats, we could vote strong down ticket to keep a majority in both houses as a way to show we expect him to actually govern with compromise, I could be sold completely.

    I cannot even believe I'm saying these things these days!... Am I the only one who's in this alternate universe where I consider voting for a Repub?... I swear I'm not smokin' anything!

    Parent

    Well every time I feel that way (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Valhalla on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:38:32 PM EST
    I fire off some money to Hillary, even if it's only $5, or email the DNC after copying in some of Marie Cocco's excellent 'What I Won't Miss' article.

    Today I'm thinking of looking up who my superdelegates are (I only know some of them) and writing them also.

    I also laugh to myself about the bloggerboiz, because really, they've wrapped themselves up in a very small cocoon and declared themselves the whole world.  Most folks don't have hours to spend blogging red in the face, they have lives to live and things to do.  For months and months I've been watching polls on RCP and comparing them to MSM headlines, and they don't match.  

    Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
    -- Winston Churchill

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Edgar08 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:21:24 PM EST
    We actually now have to start discussing whether or not a Dem can win in CA.

    It's good to see trends are going in the right direction.

    OUTRAGEOUS (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by chopper on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:23:50 PM EST
    Have you seen Drudge Report, it's outrageous.  The coverage of Hillary's "June" statement is evil.

    My God, if I was her I would have to sic Obama's bomber friend on all of those pariahs.

    _______________

    Statement from Robert Kennedy Jr.

    Robert Kennedy Jr. issued the following statement this evening:

    "It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense."

    ###

    THIS VIDEO is in Larry's story below, but I am putting it up again so that EVERYONE can see the FULL CONTEXT in which Hillary made her statement:

    ::::::::::::

    Statement from the Argus Leader

    The Argus Leader's Executive Editor Randell Beck issued the following statement today:

    "The context of the question and answer with Sen. Clinton was whether her continued candidacy jeopardized party unity this close to the Democratic convention. Her reference to Mr. Kennedy's assassination appeared to focus on the timeline of his primary candidacy and not the assassination itself."

    Thanks for consolidating in one comment. (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:30:27 PM EST
    Probably won't help with those taking part in the Obama 400 Project, 'tho.

    Many who have "seen the light" are blinded by that light. Tincture of time may help, but it won't happen soon enough, I fear.

    Parent

    That is (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by LoisInCo on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:32:19 PM EST
    actually a bigger problem. Our rights should not be held in balance by judges every election cycle. They need to be enshrined in the constitution. If you are really concerned then instead of attempting to back anyone who might "hold the line", you should focus your attention of getting a clear protection in the constitution. Just sayin'.

    what do i care (5.00 / 5) (#165)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:34:00 PM EST
    i'm from the "dry p*ssy demographic" as the KOS kids like to describe us. And the o campaign has said it doesn't need me.
    and besides, whenever we bring up the issue of sexism and misogyny, the young gals that love o say feminism isn't an issue anymore. so you'll need to find something else to threaten us with.

    I've been avoidiing the GOS (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by jeffinalabama on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:38:03 PM EST
    Are these terms actually used?

    what a crash and burn for a formerly good site.

    Parent

    Yes, those terms are used and more (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by Dr Molly on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:13:14 PM EST
    How about the "postmenopausal chick club" and the "old hag club" and the "women's studies set"? Cute huh? And all the young girls over there go right along with it. So you know what? At this point, they can just take their blackmail about Roe v. Wade and you know what with it. I just don't care anymore.

    Then, they'll all reply with how selfish we're being because we're depriving young women of their reproductive rights. Well, you know what? Here's what I call selfish:  going along silently and complicitly with a bunch of so-called progressive guys (who are really a bunch of trash-talking frat boys) while they spew vicious hate at women and then demanding that women go along with them and vote for their guy for the sake of reproductive rights.

    Screw 'em. It's freaking ridiculous to pretend these people care about women's rights after the stuff they've said and done.

    Parent

    Jeffrey Toobin is convinced Obama will appoint (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:36:08 PM EST
    SCOTUS nominees who are liberal and firmly pro-choice.

    However, Toobin did not mention at all that Obama wanted to vote for Roberts, bcz of his intellect and feels prez's have right to their ideological choices on the SCOTUS. Only his chief of staff's warning that such a vote would damage his presidential ambitions caused him to vote no!

    So, do I feel confident about Obama's judicial noms? Not so much.

    Worried? Very.

    And as we're seeing in his words about FL, he's (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:36:56 PM EST
    prolific with weasel statements.

    Parent
    Roe v. Wade (5.00 / 3) (#170)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:37:06 PM EST
    is already gone. A good court challenge will overturn it. Alito and Roberts, which Obama liked, altered the balance on the court. Get another argument.

    Oh (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:38:44 PM EST
    and Obama supporters aren't really interested in keeping Roe v. Wade anyway or they would be supporting a candidate who can actually win in Nov.

    Just A Reminder Laureola (5.00 / 0) (#182)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:49:50 PM EST
    You now have only 5 more comments for the day. I'm surprised you wasted one on inaccurately stating the RULZ.

    Unfortunately It All Makes Sense... (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by CDN Ctzn on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:59:25 PM EST
    At least to the drug induced Obamaphiles it does. I commented in a thread yesterday morning the following;

    I just came back to Portland from a brief trip to Southern Oregon. Obama supporters were still basking in his large victory in Oregon . I had the opportunity to speak to a few and them ask why they supported Obama's (non-existent) policies over Clinton's and it all boiled down to not wanting to vote for a murderer.

    I beg your pardon?

    Well, the question came that; did I really believe Vince Foster committed suicide? Everyone knows that she was having an affair with him and that the sinister Clinton machine had him silenced; just like the Kennedy's did with Marilyn Monroe!

    Stunning! And still they're allowed a vote.

    Then, later yesterday morning, still prior to the" June" remarks being paraded about, I was listening to Thom Hartman and he said that at least 10% of the E-mails he recieves from Obama supporters, express a mutual fear that if Hillary is on the ticket for VP then she will have Barrack assassinated so that she can become the President. Again, I was stunned!

    But hold on everyone because we're not done yet! Lo and behold, along came yesterdays "June" remark and the slanderous interpretation attached to an innocent comment; namely that of Hillary waiting in the wings for Barrack to be assassinated prior to the nomination so that she can become the Nominee.

    While still stunned, suddenly it becomes clear how seemingly detached fears all come together to what I believe is a well orchestrated plan but the RNC, DNC, MSM, supposedly Liberal Bloggers, and last but certainly not least, the Obama Campaign and supporters, to destroy Hillary Clinton. That's right, Destroy! They don't just want her defeated, they want her destroyed, and you might as well throw in Bill and Chelsea while your at it.

    Once again, history repeats itself in the good old US of A and all because we refuse to learn the lessons it tries to teach us.

    Is any one else as sickened by this as I am?

    Hillary, run away now while you can! There are actual truly progressive and truly civilized countries in the world that would embrace you, Chelsea, and Bill with open arms. This country is neither civilized nor progressive, as recent history has once again proven, nor is it even worthy of any of you.

    I disagree (5.00 / 0) (#197)
    by jeffhas on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:05:38 PM EST
    O'Connor, Stevens, and Souter were all nominated by Repubs and moved to the left - some more than others.

    There's no science or guarantees here.... but with regard to R v W, the American Public will not stand for overturning this decision.

    This argument is your last best red herring to get HRC supporters to vote your man in.  Sorry, too late, you and your lovely Obama supporter cohorts have tossed us under the bus with so many others, we'll just stay here and wait out the election, he'll have to do it without me - and I'm a Lifer - 25+ years as a Registered Dem.... Heck I even voted for Dukakis and Kerry!

    As for McCain... he's no standard issue Repub - the fact the far right hates him so much is evidence of that.... along with McCain/Feingold, McCain/Kennedy, and other numerous forays reaching across the aisle - he doesn't just talk about making real compromise, he does it. You must be worried he might make an appeal to Dems like me, who might be persuaded to actually vote for the other side for the first time in my personal history.

    As another commenter said upthread - you broke it you own it.

    Paging Dr. Freud....... (1.00 / 6) (#122)
    by msblucow on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:04:02 PM EST
    From Andrew Sullivan at Atlantic.com

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/paging-dr-freud.html

    I was on the stairmaster when the news came through. And I saw the apology as well - an apology to the Kennedy family, I might note, not to Senator Obama. Since some seem unwilling to point out why this remark was more than unfortunate, it is worth remembering that we have the first black candidate for president. You only have to spend a few minutes talking with African-Americans about this campaign to discover that the fear that Obama could be assassinated is very much on their minds. It is in everyone's subconscious, especially Michelle Obama's. To refer to the June assassination of Bobby Kennedy in the context of reasons to stay in this interminable race against Barack Obama is therefore catastrophically inappropriate. Coming after her pitch for "white votes", it is reckless.

    As for her argument that June primaries are nothing new, she is correct. But in no previous primary election did the voting start just after New Years' Day. The New Hampshire primary in 1968 was on March 12, two months later than this year. For June, therefore, read August. Yes, this season has gone on for ever. And for Senator Clinton, it has now obviously gone on too long.

    She's been waiting for Obama to implode. Instead, she just has.

    Nobody (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:11:48 PM EST
    cares what Andrew Sullivan says. He's an idiot who has been saying this same thing for months. Nothing new here. It seems that Obama supporters are afraid of something coming down the pike.

    Parent
    You apparently think (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:22:28 PM EST
    Andrew Sullivan is relevant and people outside of Obama-nation care what he thinks.

    Parent
    RFK Jr sees it as a historical reference to prior (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:24:24 PM EST
    long primary battles.

    But he's only RFK's son, what would he know, right?

    Sully as your authority in any matters dealing with the Dems? Not the best possible choice, imho.

    But, again, when people have "seen the light," much is seen differently it seems.

    Parent

    Jeralyn was very clear yesterday (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by waldenpond on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:38:15 PM EST
    about her feelings about this particular topic.  It is not to be discussed this weekend.

    She was also very clear, if you are here to bash on Clinton..... go elsewhere.

    Parent

    Paging your History teacher.... (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by oldpro on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:57:36 PM EST
    So, you think

    " it is worth remembering that we have the first black candidate for president."

    Um...no.  Let me introduce you to Jesse Jackson, Sr. just for openers.

    Now use the google search and see who else you can find.  You will be surprised...and you should be embarrassed.

    Carry on....

    Parent

    Shirley Chilsolm! (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:04:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Sick. (none / 0) (#136)
    by masslib on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:12:04 PM EST


    Parent
    It's catastrophically inappropriate (none / 0) (#166)
    by Marco21 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:34:29 PM EST
    to deliberately misconstrue a candidate's comments to further your candidates fortunes. That's never stopped dear Andrew before and it hasn't now.

    Parent
    About those reproductive organs....... (1.00 / 5) (#129)
    by msblucow on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:08:39 PM EST
    Are you OK with a McCain presidency appointing at least 2 Supreme Court Justices who will insure you're reproductive organs - and those of your daughters - will be held hostage for the next 40-50 years?

    Because if you're so concerned about this, I find it baffling you wouldn't support the Democratic nominee in the fall.

    Talk about throwing women under the bus!

    Please (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by cmugirl on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:20:54 PM EST
    Give examples of how you think Obama will pick better SC judges.

    BTW - Roe isn't going anywhere -too big a fundraiser for Repubs.  Nice try, but the Roe threat is old and tired. Try a more creative argument.

    Parent

    Let's see (none / 0) (#176)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    McCain voted to affirm Scalito and Roberts, Obama voted against confirmation.  Seems to be some indication.

    Parent
    No longer an issue (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by MichaelGale on Sat May 24, 2008 at 01:04:01 PM EST
    Roe V Wade is dying on the vine. The SC will either overturn or diminish. The justices are all ready in place and only a fighter like Hillary will try to stop them.

    Personally, I'm betting Obama will just let choice, and women who support it, fall under the bus without a fight. All the "sweeties" will cry foul after he is elected and  Roe is marginalized.  But you know the saying; vote against your own interests, you get what you deserve? Oh well.

    Parent

    You just don't get it, do you? (1.00 / 2) (#152)
    by msblucow on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:23:11 PM EST
    There are at least 2 Supreme Court positions up for grabs within the next few years. During this time, would you rather have a Democrat or a Republican as president in a position to make these appointments?

    I'm assuming Roe v. Wade is important to you based on your previous comments. Am I wrong about this? Are you willing to risk having our reproductive rights thrown under the bus by withholding (or worse) actively campaigning against the Democratic nominee?

    'Cause the two positions are completely at odds with each other.

    Parent

    Please tell me Sen. Obama's (none / 0) (#155)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:25:10 PM EST
    position on "reproductive rights" I have seen his position in print. What exactly is his position?

    Parent
    LOL "Old Man Yells at Cloud" (none / 0) (#3)
    by kempis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:38:00 AM EST
    Thanks for that, BTD. This old, cloud-yelling-at lady needed that laugh this morning. :)

    Yelling at clouds is a fun (none / 0) (#17)
    by kredwyn on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:45:02 AM EST
    hobby.

    Just got back from a bike ride.

    Now to go sow a bunch of wildflower seeds and hope that they get to grow before the deer think they're yummy.

    Hey, that's what I can do (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:49:52 AM EST
    plant more stuff.  Maybe I'll fall down and get scraped and then I can't go to the bday party.  I finally broke down and got one of those great big gardening in south summer hats.  It goes to the beach too.

    Parent
    I'm with Stella (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by kredwyn on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:56:34 AM EST
    get the obnoxious noise making gift.

    Problem solved.

    Parent

    kazoos for the whole crowd! (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:06:46 AM EST


    Parent
    BTD, (none / 0) (#22)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:47:44 AM EST
    which Democratic presidental candidate was less qualfied than Obama?

    1948 - Truman
    1952 - Stevenson
    1956 - Stevenson
    1960 - Kennedy
    1964 - Johnson
    1968 - Humphrey
    1972 - McGovern
    1976 - Carter
    1980 - Carter
    1984 - Mondale
    1988 - Dukasis
    1992 - Clinton
    1996 - Clinton
    2000 - Gore
    2004 - Kerry

    reference this comment and your reply to it

    Carter (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:48:43 AM EST
    As I walk out the door.

    Truman in 44.

    Parent

    Carter was gov of GA! (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Kathy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:53:12 AM EST


    Parent
    Carter clearly is the one (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by brodie on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:09:21 AM EST
    most similar to BHO wrt relative lack of political experience.  State senate for a couple of terms, then later one term as gov.  Today, of course, he'd be given a little more credit for his years running the family peanut businesss.  Plus his military career gave him some cred on the NS front.

    BHO has no military and no business background -- except maybe for his personal business dealings with Tony Rez.

    Truman by 44 had been a US Senator for a decade.  And would go on to be, for a few mos anyway, the VP.  Prior to that, he had some interesting experience in the exec/judicial realm in MO, plus military/WW I veteran.  

    I don't see Harold as other than more qualified, as these things are calculated, than Barack.  It's just that as VP, he was famously not briefed by FDR's people about the Bomb.  But that was how VP's were treated back then -- help the top of the ticket get elected, then serve with only light duties.

    BHO=Jimmy Carter is a fair comparison.

    And I still see this one like 76 -- a solid anti-Repub yr where the Dem nominee nearly snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

    Though it's hard to imagine even the green overconfident Obama governing as incompetently as JC did ...  

    Parent

    Which makes Hillary (none / 0) (#66)
    by riddlerandy on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:15:35 AM EST
    Birch Bayh

    Parent
    Harry S Truman (none / 0) (#70)
    by Molly Pitcher on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:17:09 AM EST
    (and the S gets no period, I seem to recall)

    Parent
    Correct (none / 0) (#94)
    by Cream City on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:32:25 AM EST
    sez U.S. historian and ex-copy editor.  And no Childe Harold was he in terms of experience, either.

    Parent
    Ever read Truman's Biography (none / 0) (#74)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:19:49 AM EST
    Plain Speaking?

    According to him, he wasn't FDR's choice for VP, but was put on that ticket because of a misunderstanding.

    Parent

    Truman was not the (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by ding7777 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:13:28 AM EST
    Democratic Presidential nominee in 1944.

    Obama's stint as a Community organizer does not trump Governor

    Parent

    True That (none / 0) (#87)
    by flashman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:27:46 AM EST
    My pick is "none of the above"

    Parent
    Carter at least had executive, managerial exper- (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:22:06 AM EST
    ience, in his family business, his naval career, and the governorship. He had experience in politics and working with others in a political setting in the state leg and governorship.

    Yet, when he came to DC, he was both rejected by the DC Dems and he did not quite get the hang of managing them in the Congress.  My mother had been a Repub until Carter; watching him, especially in contrast to Nixon, she voted for him and remained a Democcrat until she died in the mid-90's. She firmly believed he had learned a great deal during his first term and would have been much more effective in a second.

    Not to be however. So, we saw labor decimated under Reagan and all the other ills of his leadership...over a cliff.

    Parent

    True, JC had that interesting (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by brodie on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:41:54 AM EST
    varied resume, including Annapolis and Nucular Sub Engineer, which added gravitas and said Potential CinC.  Obama has the sort of non-gravitas background -- community organizing and academia -- which doesn't help people picture him as CinC.

    1980 was the only time this lifelong Dem failed to vote Dem for prez -- opting for the then-trendy (for libs) John Anderson.  Well, I had some good company --  historian Arthur Schlesinger (iirc) and, interestingly, Jackie Kennedy, who spotted something about Jimmy as far back as 76 which she didn't like (sanctimony).

    Parent

    Your mom was a wise woman :) (none / 0) (#105)
    by kempis on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:42:32 AM EST


    Parent
    None less and none more (none / 0) (#36)
    by Laureola on Sat May 24, 2008 at 10:55:46 AM EST
    The best qualified candidate in history was Mr. Smith, and he had less government experience than anybody on the list.

    Parent
    Did he also do a lot of community (none / 0) (#95)
    by MarkL on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:34:02 AM EST
    organizing, back in the neighborhood?

    Parent
    Dare I say none of them. (none / 0) (#100)
    by RalphB on Sat May 24, 2008 at 11:38:16 AM EST


    Parent
    On the Subject of Florida (none / 0) (#126)
    by WelshWoman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:07:12 PM EST
    Did some googling and found this:

    "Their primary essentially won't count, " Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean said of Florida. "Anybody who campaigns in Florida is ineligible for delegates."

    Does this mean if anyone was caught in Florida they would lose their Florida delegates or all their delegates?

    Can anyone help me as I really don't understand your election process, sorry!

    Please go to your room and (none / 0) (#128)
    by zfran on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:08:23 PM EST
    when you can converse like a grown-up, then you may come out.

    Troll alert (none / 0) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:12:39 PM EST
    spamming the threads.

    How close was the primary (none / 0) (#144)
    by Edgar08 on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:19:01 PM EST
    In 2004?

    Google is your friend! (none / 0) (#158)
    by jawbone on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:26:51 PM EST
    1,920,000 cites!

    Terry was right. (none / 0) (#171)
    by WelshWoman on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:37:43 PM EST
    Fair play Terry was right, it has lead to Chaos.

    It also shows what a leader Terry was compared to Howard.

    If they had applied the rules as they stand i.e. 50% reduction and allowed candidates to campaign there. There would be very little anyone could do about it.

    They have already had one chance to correct this mess. From a strategic pint of view, I would have had a re-vote and made the states pay. That way you send a clear message about the principle of moving up the dates but find away for everyone's vote to count.

    They have a second chance next week and it will be intersting to see if they have there sights set on winning in November. From a pure spin point of view, the republicans will be able to run ads indicating that the DNC is disingenuous count every vote in 2000 but not in 2008.

    Whoever said "It's always (none / 0) (#181)
    by jondee on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:47:13 PM EST
    a lone assassin" Should try googling Executive Action - CIA.

    Never a dull moment in the United States of Amnesia.

    Parent

    Oops (none / 0) (#180)
    by otherlisa on Sat May 24, 2008 at 12:46:51 PM EST
    Looks like someone didn't read the Ruulz!

    Morning Open Thread | 188 comments (188 topical)