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Obama Adviser: Obama Joined Wright's Church In Search Of His "Blackness"

Update (TL): The linked article is from Newsweek and is about why Oprah Winfrey left the Trinity Church.

*****

With friends and campaign advisers like this:

[Oprah] Winfrey was a member of Trinity United from 1984 to 1986, and she continued to attend off and on into the early to the mid-1990s. But then she stopped. A major reason—but by no means the only reason—was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. . . . Friends of Sen. Barack Obama, whose relationship with Wright has rocked his bid for the White House, insist that it would be unfair to compare Winfrey's decision to leave Trinity United with his own decision to stay. "[His] reasons for attending Trinity were totally different," said one campaign adviser . . . "Early on, he was in search of his identity as an African-American and, more importantly, as an African-American man. Reverend Wright and other male members of the church were instrumental in helping him understand the black experience in America. Winfrey wasn't going for that. She's secure in her blackness, so that didn't have a hold on her." . . .

More...

(Emphasis supplied.) Um, Obama's campaign adviser said that?!? This is not good.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Well, he's telling the truth, which is (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by MarkL on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:06:49 PM EST
    refreshing.
    I'm sure that answer is correct.

    The surrogate is also saying that Obama is ... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Salo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:35:05 PM EST
    ...insecure?  That's a clunky way to say it.  Which makes it all the more credible. I guess we are all insecure in some way so that makes it human. It's better than paranoia like Nixon. But he was attracted to a cartoon preacher because he was such an outsider in the black community?  HHHMMMMM. I feel like a game is being played here.  The statement implies something like:

    Oh see he's not really a radically religious  black man at all, it was an affectation!  A personal search. He's so confused about his whiteness and blackness. He's Orangey beige you see.

    It's interesting to see how much Obama see's various sub-cultures as cartoons though:

    Clingy Types,  Typical Grandmas, Real Blackness, Karachi Slumkids kinda like he has Mark Penn in his head and is creating micro markets on the fly.

    is the statement on tape?

    Parent

    Being cynical myself (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:08:46 PM EST
     I think it was to convince voters and get AA support.  But that is just me.  

    Probably true, but he's got 90% (none / 0) (#8)
    by Shainzona on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:13:02 PM EST
    of the AA vote already, so not a lot of upside potential in that.

    Parent
    He Does Now (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by The Maven on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:25:46 PM EST
    but he most certainly didn't have anything close to 90% a year ago, before Axelrod et al. went to work on making the Clintons out to be racist enemies of the AA community.  Remember that there was quite a long stretch of 2007 when one of the questions being asked of Obama was whether he was seen as authentically "black" enough to win an overwhelming share of the African-American voting bloc, especially since the senator was claiming to run as a post-racial candidate.  That all seemed to change for South Carolina, however.

    Parent
    Going Out On A Limb, But I Think His 90% (none / 0) (#53)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:55:52 PM EST
    number is decreasing.

    Parent
    Turnout (none / 0) (#127)
    by delandjim on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:30:51 PM EST
    Yes percent is going up a little but turnout was dow some in Pa. It will be interesting to see turnout post second Wright blowup. Not all like that kind of a church.

    Parent
    He's making Obama (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:12:32 PM EST
    sound like a follower, rather than a leader.

    A leader is confident and determines his/her position in society.

    Of course, I don't buy the story anyway.  Obama did this for politics.  Unfortunately, his political expediency is often short-sighed, and doesn't take into account the harm that might come to him later.  Not a long-term thinker.

    I have never fully bought (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:03:20 PM EST
    the political expediency argument, and here is why: if Obama was not a follower of Wright's words, if he did not in some way believe the rhetoric that Wright preached from the pulpit, then he would have clearly seen the potential disaster his association with Wright would cause and cut him off immediately.  Same with Ayers, to some degree.  In Obama's sheltered, Chicago existence, Ayers and Wright are part of the landscape.  No one is terribly outraged by anyone's association with these characters because to a certain extent, in the circles in which the Obamas travel, they are mainstream.

    For all Obama's talk about being a worldly man, he has lived a very insulated life, especially politically.  He was protected as a cog in the Daley machine, he was sheltered by Emil Jones, etc.  This is why he is so out of touch with the majority of Americans.  When he showed outrage at the price of arugula, he wasn't kidding.  

    If he was really politically savvy, if he was capable of really competing in bare-knuckle politics at a national level, then Wright, Ayers, Rezko--all of them--would have been left shivering in the cold years ago.  They only became a problem because Obama did not see that they would become a problem.  It's called inexperience, and he's got lots of it.

    Parent

    Your narrative makes sense (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by santarita on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:14:20 PM EST
    The more I read about Rezko and the seamy world of Illinois politics, the more I think that someone with presidential political ambitions would want to establish independence from them.  Obama's choice of friends and mentors seem ok for the local scene but not for that national scene.  

    Parent
    I suspect (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:26:02 PM EST
    I suspect, COMPLETELY without knowing, of course, that Michelle is the more radical of the two Obamas.

    I suspect, COMPLETELY without knowing, that maybe the reason he attended this church was because his wife wanted it.

    And we all know, in the end, that the wife roolz the household (I do in my house!)

    But the depiction in the article of the follower is completely within the fabric of my Obama-servation of a Me-too kind of person.  See debates for examples.

    So, completely speculating, my reasons for his attendance, in no particular order are:
    --follower-mentality
    --wife demanded it
    --good for career
    --naivety from a "politically sheltered" existence -- short-sighted thinking
    --and maybe throw in "for the religious experience".  In fact, it is true that the church does some good works

    Parent

    There is another reason.. I wrote a comment (none / 0) (#126)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:30:31 PM EST
    on another thread about it.. will copy/paste it here..no quotes since it's mine anyway.

    The thing about Trinity is that they are an Afro-centrist church..which means that they are looking for connections to Africa rather than America. The fact that Obama's father was Kenyan is a big deal to them. Obama is seen as a real African for some reason. I think that may be part of Obama's attraction to that church..his father is important to them just because he is an African. Never mind that he didn't stick around to raise his son, or that he went home to his other wife. What matters to Trinity is that Obama, Sr. was AFRICAN. So that validates Obama in a way that no other AA church is going to. Makes what makes him different from other AAs important rather than different. Now he is out asking for votes from AAs who don't care about the African connection, but do care about shared experience. He has managed to avoid mentioning that he has no shared experience, either personal or familial, with most AAs in this country. No one in his family was ever a slave. No stories passed down from freed slaves or from parents and grandparents who lived under the Jim Crow laws for generations. Just an African father. So, you can see why Trinity appealed to him. Their attitude about his father probably soothed what must have been a sore spot in terms of his father's absence in his life and, in a way, validated his existence. I wonder how he feels now that he has tossed them all under the bus.

    Parent

    Great, how STUPID (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:15:30 PM EST
    Yes, politics are often stupid.  Now Barack has suffered an identity crisis or some sort of identity breakdown by the time the GOP is done with this, instead of going out there to meet and understand the people he wanted to represent and ended up representing.  I have never been a campaign advisor in my life but I could have done much better than these yahoos have done on this!

    Wright rightfully outraged (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM EST
    Obama used the church to become "black" and to get an in and then he attacks Wright.  Obama I think totally discounted Wright  that he would be on the unity bus.  He did not pay his respects, talk to him one on one.  He let the campaign do it.  That is why Obama is never gonna be a good politician.  He is afraid of  confrontation, avoids it and then it blows up and he get hurt.  Obama got caught.  

     What I love most is white liberals spinning this to something it's not.  

    It's about loyalty, trust, bonds, politics, alliances.  Obama blew this politically big time.  

    The thing that amazed me about (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by Fabian on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:28:17 PM EST
    Bill Clinton was how he could get rejected, turned down, and even outright betrayed and just pick himself up and keep on going.  Politics is tough.  People you could fight beside for years can abandon you for any reason or none at all.  There's no time for tears and wallowing in pity - you just gotta get up and round up a new coalition.  (Who may well turn out to be as fickle as the last batch!)

    Obama's best bet with Wright was to say in essence "It was a good experience.  I learned a lot from him and it's time for us to walk separate paths.".  

    Parent

    It's also the strong foundation (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:28:22 PM EST
    for my trust in both him and his wife. It takes enormous strength and focus on a goal to be able to do that.  Both of them are masters.

    Parent
    Indeed Wright should be outraged! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by felizarte on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:33:24 PM EST
    because he thought he was "bringing Obama to Christianity"!  This must sound even worse to Wright who at least excused Obama initially for "just speaking as a politician."  And he thought he had successfully convinced Obama (who was searching for a religion) that Christianity was best.

    I expect that Rev. Wright will soon have a say and this time, he will be quite correct in expressing himself on this issue with "RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION."

    That campaign aide does not know what he has wrought with this explanation.  This truth explains Obama's relationship with the Trinity Church only too well.  And it is bound to hurt.

    Parent

    charlie rangel (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by isaac on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:54:36 PM EST
    said this morning, it's not a good idea to dis a black preacher

    Parent
    But Who Was Rangel Referring To? (none / 0) (#83)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:33:40 PM EST
    Was he referring to the media dissing a black preacher or Obama?

    Parent
    I don't think Obama meeting one-on-one (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    with Wright would have made a bit of difference.  Wright is strong, powerful, media savvy, etc.  He was never going to go quietly into that good night.

    Parent
    I don't agree (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:29:09 PM EST
    I think if Obama had gone to Wright, sat down with him, stroked his ego, and made all kinds of promises, then Wright would have backed down.  Wright was in the spotlight because Obama wouldn't give him the respect Wright thought he deserved.  And, frankly, the man did deserve at least a phone call based on a 20 year close relationship and unbridled support from the pulpit.

    It's the same thing folks report about the Edwards/Obama meeting, where Obama refused to humble himself and do the politically smart thing by stroking Edwards the right way.

    He's burning bridges so fast the heels of his shoes are starting to melt.

    Parent

    Common sense and manners (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:40:37 PM EST
    I don't know if it's old politics or  being above it all.  You have to sweet talk people and Obama will not get any cooperation.  What this tells me is he has not magic or ferry dust for unity.  Everyone else does the work for him, he delegates.  He does not get involved and thinks people will just join in.  Politics does not work that way.

    The Wright thing is a big indicator of so many of the Obama shortcomings.  

    Parent

    Absolutely (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:07:29 PM EST
    if he could not keep Wright in hand, could not "unify" his spiritual mentor of the last 20 years with the overall Obama message, then how in the heck does anyone think Obama can bring together dems and repubs, let alone the nation?

    Again, I don't want to be unified.  I want to win.  I want real dems in power doing good, democratic work for our country.

    Parent

    amen to your last paragraph. a-friggin-men. n/t (none / 0) (#114)
    by kangeroo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:59:28 PM EST
    One more river to cross ... (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by cymro on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:15:46 PM EST
    ... to reach the nomination. But:

    Kathy says "he's burning bridges so fast."
    Stellaaa says "he has no ferry dust for unity."

    How will he ever cross that river?

    Parent

    Fairy...fairy (none / 0) (#103)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:25:32 PM EST
    Even the Senators on the same committees (none / 0) (#129)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:37:45 PM EST
    aren't fond of him. They resent his taking credit for bills that he didn't do any work on. He stops in for a few minutes, then shows up at the press conference and thanks them for their work on HIS bill. Just think what it's going to be like if he were president. Do you think they will be willing to work with him so he can take all the credit for everything they do? I don't.

    Parent
    I agree, Kathy (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by AnninCA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:43:34 PM EST
    with your take.  It's personal.  He failed to handle it properly.

    Just the same as he threw Ferarro away, after a lifetime of working on behalf of all minorities and women.  That's what I simply call immaturity.

    My son and I had a great talk today about this issue.  He's Gen-X and loved the speech.  I said originally, "Bad speech."  Today I asked him if Obama's actions had broadened his perspective on the speech?

    No, was the answer.  LOL*  (It's such fun to talk to him.  Reality check!)

    I said, politics is personal, even at that level.  Richardson screwed up because he misled the Clintons.  That's all.  And Obama screwed up because he didn't talk enough to Wright before the speech and convince him that it would be OK.  And he was much too rough in his description of Wright as the uncle who says strange stuff.  

    People put their blood and sweat into lifetime careers and have the right to feel proud.  Even if I don't like Wright's viewpoints, I darn well see what he accomplished in his life and respect him for that.

    Obama failed to respect him.

    Parent

    I am sure you know the song "Respect" (none / 0) (#130)
    by FlaDemFem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:58:47 PM EST
    by Aretha Franklin. One of the lines is "Give me my propers", meaning proper respect. That is what Obama didn't do for Rev. Wright, he didn't give him his propers..or props as they say now. And the Reverend was rightly angered by it. I don't blame him one bit.

    Parent
    How can you be so sure a meeting of the stories (none / 0) (#118)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:32:42 PM EST
    didn't take place?  Both conveniently came up with "not his mentor, not his spiritual advisor, just his pastor" lines at the same time.

    My logic tells me Obama's absence of 'intensity' in his speech last week was suspect, and the immediate disappearance of Wright says they compared notes and not one thing Obama said was anything Wright didn't know was coming.

    Parent

    Obama himself has acknowledged his own... (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:18:20 PM EST
    ...search for his black roots. His father being African would also make an Africa centered church appealing to him. That's all easy to understand. What is not so cool about that statement from Obama's point of view is that it implies he stayed in the church because of insecurity, which to me suggests that he was aware of Wright's positions, wasn't comfortable with them, but stayed on for emotional reasons. That sort of contradicts his on the record statements. But yes, you are correct, it is an unattributed statement so you have to take with a grain of salt.

    I get the impression that his is insecure (none / 0) (#39)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:41:28 PM EST
    People who are truly secure in who they are do not seek validation from other's. They are leaders, not followers. Clinton is most definitely secure in who she is - which is why she has been able to withstand the public challenges that have been thrown her way without flinching. Obama, meanwhile, has been on a lifelong journey to figure out who he is and what is place is in the world. I wish he's come back and run for President after he figures this out.

    Parent
    because... (none / 0) (#106)
    by white n az on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:30:09 PM EST
    it worked so well for Alex Haley

    Parent
    That is such '70s thinking though. (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:34:48 PM EST
    If Obama can't find his 'blackness' after 20 yrs (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by Ellie on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:19:24 PM EST
    ... even after Rev Wright has been stumping the primer complete with color swatches and flat out bizarre "science", I don't trust that Obama could find his own @ss with both hands and a GPS locator saying "Your head is here, your hands are here and here, and your @ss is on the screen directly under the little hand cursor."

    And I think this points up another (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by tree on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:57:20 PM EST
    contradiction of his campaign. His campaign promotes the idea that his experience living in Indonesia for 4 years as a child and visiting a few countries for a few weeks as a college student adequately substitutes for foreign policy experience and that he has somehow been able to assimilate a deep understanding of other cultures through those experiences.

     But now the Obama campaign wants us to believe that he was essentially clueless about Wright's sermons and attitude for 20 years. I understand that this may merely be the least "bad" of all spins they could put on this, but it also totally demolishes the meme that Obama is so culturally astute that he doesn't need real experience in foreign policy. If he couldn't figure out Wright after 20 years of close association with him, why  shouldn't we assume that he'll be clueless about foreign leaders or the politics of other countries?

    Parent

    Something tells me Oprah does not put up (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Joelarama on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:21:10 PM EST
    with conspiracy theories about the federal government creating the AIDS epidemic to destroy the African American community.

    This has nothing to do with "blackness," which is why I found Obama's initial, "historic" speech about Wright to be so ridiculous.  It has everything to do with integrity and judgment.

    Where is Oprah? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:23:02 PM EST
    since Wright blew up.  

    Parent
    Is Oprah worried about ratings? (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by ding7777 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:44:15 PM EST

    Politico.com reports:
    The results of a March 26, 2008, AOL Television popularity poll of television hosts reveal Americans may now embrace Ellen DeGeneres over Oprah by a wide margin. Forty-six percent of the 1.35 million people who participated in the poll said the daytime talk show host that "made their day" was Ellen, compared with only 19 percent who chose Oprah. Nearly half (47 percent) said they would rather dine with Ellen, compared with 14 percent who preferred Oprah.


    Parent
    Chances are (none / 0) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:35:56 PM EST
    the viewers were simply saying they don't want Oprah becoming a political activist.  Oprah's disappearance from the campaigning just says she listened to her viewers.

    Parent
    I imagine she supports Obama despite any (none / 0) (#20)
    by Joelarama on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:24:42 PM EST
    misgivings she might have about him.

    That's the same way I feel about Hillary.

    Parent

    If Oprah could sense Wright was toxic.. (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by ineedalife on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:23:43 PM EST
    to her career why couldn't the man with the very best judgement in this world, Obama?

    Further down in the article Oprah takes Wright to task for personal attacks on Obama. All he said was that Obama was speaking as a politician. Not a very personal attack. I wonder what Oprah's reaction to Wright humping the podium while ridiculing the Clintons was? That should have given her a heart attack.

    Not just her career (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by daryl herbert on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:53:50 PM EST
    Toxic to everything.

    Toxic to her religious instruction.

    Toxic to her feelings towards white people.

    Toxic to her feelings towards black people and self-actualization.

    And even toxic to marriage.

    Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright is poison.

    Parent

    is he? i'm asking this earnestly. (none / 0) (#115)
    by kangeroo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:02:18 PM EST
    i'd really like to hear some AA's weigh in on this.

    Parent
    So Obama's Understanding Of A Black Man In (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:25:12 PM EST
    America is grounded in the teachings of Rev. Wright.

    Now I don't think that is true, but that sure sounds like what is being said. Also, it blows Obama's last version of Rev. Wright as just a paster right out of the water.

    Stop digging please. The Republicans already have enough examples of where nothing Obama has said to date has been consistent. How many more versions do they need.

    The Obama camp needs to find the (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by tigercourse on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:27:50 PM EST
    narrative. Is Wright some crazy nut that Obama barely listened to who he renounces and rejects? Or is he the guy who shaped his entire identity as a black man in America. It would be nice if they figured this out before November.

    And all this blah, blah, blah about identity needs to stop. This isn't a literature or sociology class.

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by cmugirl on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:28:35 PM EST
    Religion is personal, except when it's not - like when the candidate makes it a focal point of his campaign and trots out people like Rev. Wright when he is trying to appeal to voters.

    Parent
    This Shows obama's Affection For Wright (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:54:26 PM EST
    and the type of relationship they had:

    http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=29302&only&rss

    Today even Krauthammer is saying obama is in trouble if he thinks the "dumb hicks" won't notice the difference in his race speech compared to what he said about Rev. Wright last Tuesday.

    Parent

    Bad website to link to (none / 0) (#68)
    by Edgar08 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:18:43 PM EST
    I really have to find a copy of his Democratic Party Keynote address speech from 2004.

    It's only a bad website to link to because people can then complain about that instead of actually addressing the video itself.


    Parent

    I think Obama's keynote (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:28:18 PM EST
    speech is a link on his campaign website.

    Parent
    good article (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Josey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    Roger Simon - Obama can't bluff past Wright issue

    http://tinyurl.com/53q473

    >>>Take Barack Obama's handling of the Jeremiah Wright episode. So far, Obama has gotten through this mess not by frankly facing up to what he knew about Wright's past statements and what he did about them, but by bluffing his way through.

    Parent

    no one is questioning his faith (none / 0) (#47)
    by isaac on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:51:05 PM EST
    only his judgment.

    Parent
    Obama just needed more time to put his house in (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jawbone on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:30:34 PM EST
    order, esp'ly Rev. Wright and Rezko, but I think Axelrod persuaded him that the winds were blowing so strongly for a Dem in the WH that he should make his move earlier.

    Plus, the longer he was in the US Senate, the more would be known about him -- and the narrative would be more difficult to create that squared with known facts.

    I'm still wondering why, with a thinnish resume, Obama would not include his work as the chair of the board of an educational charity/think tank, a job which paid him handsomely.

    What did he do there?

    I think (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Josey on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:10:13 PM EST
    the Dem establishment was willing to promote an empty suit rockstar even with ties to anti-America characters to prevent a Hillary presidency.
    A newly elected senator running for president? based on "changing Washington"?? ha! Because a newbie senator can do what the Establishment promoting him can't do??
    Most newbie senators are focused on keep their mouths shut and learning the system for the first half of their term - not running for president.

    Parent
    jaw, if you mean the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (none / 0) (#95)
    by lookoverthere on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:58:07 PM EST
    Info from Just One Minute. Links to Slate and others. And mentions some lady named Jeralyn Merritt.

    Who is she and what color is her pantsuit?

    Parent

    Absolutely right (none / 0) (#111)
    by AnninCA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    on the money, and he wasn't far off.  This revelation is coming late in the primaries.

    If anyone had vetted him even 2 months earlier?

    There's be no discussion about that lousy 100 delegate lead he's got.

    Parent

    I think he believed (none / 0) (#121)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:40:41 PM EST
    he addressed the Rev Wright issue in his NYT article in April of 2007.  Obama wants us to find out who he is through the medium he has control over.  His fictional books, some well-controlled articles, his web site, and his carefully crafted speeches.


    Parent
    I thought everyone knew that. (5.00 / 10) (#34)
    by OrangeFur on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:35:53 PM EST
    From everything I've read, Obama has long been interested/concerned/obsessed with his ethnic background. It's all over his writing and continually leaks out in his talking.

    Why did Obama choose that church instead of any other church? He says so in his own writing--the initial sermon talked about how "white folks' greed" runs the world.

    Black liberation theology is the almost the whole point of Trinity UCC, and the whole point of Obama joining it.

    Very few people will buy that Obama didn't know about the church's views. It strains common sense and is quite frankly an insult to one's intelligence.

    Frankly, I have no idea what Obama's current position is. When the Wright stuff, first came out, he decided to lecture us in the Greatest Speech Ever Given, teaching us poor fools that we were overreacting and that everything needed to be seen in the context of our history.

    A few weeks later, he tosses Wright overboard.

    Talk about change we can believe in.

    Americans do like the visit (none / 0) (#93)
    by Salo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:47:34 PM EST
    Ireland if they have Irish relatives.

    But it's on a whole other superficial level.  Obama mediated on his racial ID.  He's either going to prove to be crank like Wright or interesting like Marcus Aurelius.

    Parent

    Marcus Aurelius learned directly (none / 0) (#123)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:47:14 PM EST
    from his natural father though:

    Marcus Aurelius was the only son to Marcus Annius Verus and Domitia Lucilla. . . . Marcus Aurelius' father was of Spanish origin, and served as a praetor and died when Marcus was three years old. Marcus Aurelius credits him with teaching him "manliness without ostentation".  [Wikipedia, emphasis added.]

    Parent

    One thing is the same (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by waldenpond on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    They are the same in that they no longer needed the church....

    In time, she found one: her own.  "There is the Church of Oprah now," said her longtime friend, with a laugh. "She has her own following."

    Just substitute Obama for Oprah.


    Oprah's new church (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:46:57 PM EST
    She has converted to the Course In Miracles.
    This Is Your Day for Miracles!

    What is a miracle? It is a shift in perception from fear to love. And that shift will change your entire life.

    Are you ready for a new beginning? A Course in Miracles is a complete, self-study spiritual journey. Its goal for you is happiness and peace.

    Sounds a lot like the Church of Obama...

    Parent

    The Power of Now (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM EST
    Actually, that's only part of it (none / 0) (#122)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 05:44:14 PM EST
    Eckhart Tolle is her main focus. Not sure if Oprah could ever fully embrace A Course in Miracles.  It takes very focused study and is time-consuming.  She has one of the best teachers at her finger-tips in Marianne Williamson, though.  Oh, and MW is currently on a book tour. I enjoyed her 3 hour lecture last Tuesday here. She's injecting plenty of Obama campaign support into her lecture.

    Parent
    Tragic, really tragic (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by felizarte on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:52:11 PM EST
    if that indeed were the case.  It may not be so, but that is how I also perceive them based on their words and actions.

    Parent
    Not good (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by stillife on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:49:50 PM EST
    it makes him sound lost and easily influenced.


    The African American vote... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by OrangeFur on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:58:42 PM EST
    I'll try to tread very carefully here, since I am not African American. But I'd like everyone's opinion, whether you're African American or not.

    One (simplistic and limited) way of viewing the results of the Democratic primary is through pure demographics. With Obama having a lock on the African American vote, anyone hoping to defeat him would have to amass a pretty large majority on the remaining vote. For example, if the AA vote is 20% of the Dem vote, then someone else would have to win by well over 20 points among the remainder. This is pretty much an impossible margin against a reasonable candidate such as Obama, and Hillary Clinton has done well to even get close.

    Obviously this isn't the only way of looking at the demographics of the race. One could make a similar argument concerning women, for example.

    There's nothing wrong with African Americans supporting Obama in such large numbers; given our country's history and current state, it's a natural and honorable expression of solidarity or pride. In the wake of the Wright business, however, I've seen some black commentators ask whether this loyalty has been given too easily, and I'm curious what other people think.

    In the views I've seen expressed, these African Americans worry that giving him 90% of their votes without him even having to ask allows him to focus exclusively on getting white/other votes. The results range from the substantive to the cosmetic: He hasn't focused on issues particularly pertinent to the AA community (poverty, New Orleans, HIV etc.), he's skipped events such as the State of the Black Union, his staff tends to stage campaign events to show off his white support (a throwaway line in an NYT article mentioned how while one NC crowd was quite diverse, the seats that would appear on TV were filled with a lot of white people), etc.

    The question then is whether what he'll do for the AA community as president. Will he pay more attention once he's in office? Or will he continue to focus on the swing voters he perceives as requiring more care and feeding?

    I hope I haven't offended anyone with this post. Moderators, please delete if I have.

    The problem is not that Obama, like a lot (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Anne on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:32:16 PM EST
    of people of mixed race and for various other reasons, was looking for his identity; the problem is that the comments of his campaign advisor suggest that it was as a result of his relationship with Jeremiah Wright that he believed he had found that identity.  That what Jeremiah Wright believes, what he preaches, connected with Obama, and for 20 years, he apparently was just fine with it.

    America listened to Reverend Wright, and they heard a man who has a lot of anger, and projects a lot of negativity toward "the slavemasters," and in his sermons is keeping that anger alive in his parishioners.  They heard him say that he would not call Louis Farrakhan his enemy because Farrakhan was not responsible for putting him in chains.  They heard him say a host of things that were very disturbing to a lot of people.

    Okay, I'll buy that some of this is part and parcel of black liberation theology, but how does that translate to the Barack Obama who says he is all about unity?

    And how do the American people not wonder which of these two people - Wright or Obama - is being honest?

    I can't even imagine the contortions that are going to follow this "advisor's" terribly damaging remarks.

    Search for identity (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by AnninCA on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:47:40 PM EST
    at a lower level in government, then.  I'm with BTD on this one.  Good grief, his own campaign is talking about him like some new age groupie.  LOL*

    Next we'll hear he's joined a drumming group.  :)

    I have no problem with anyone searching for whatever floats their boat in life.  Heaven knows, I've done it.

    But I certainly had the humility to realize that meant I wasn't entirely "self-actualized."

    Lordy, I'm getting old if I'm going to have to live through a president who is finding himself.  

    Parent

    When did Obama join the church again? (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by cawaltz on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:59:39 PM EST
    I think it would be normal to seek out people you have things in common with when you are young and still trying to discover who you are(particularly if one or more parents were in absentia). As an AA male, I'm not quite certain why he'd need help understanding the black male experience. After all, he is a black male. I'd be more inclined to go Freud and say that he may have been searching for a strong male figure to replace dad. I don't see this as that big a deal.

    Supposely 20 years ago (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:37:07 PM EST
    I think his experience growing up was very different from most black males in the U.S.  Hawaii is a very different environment ethnically, and my understanding is that black folks are more easily accepted there than whites (understandable reasons!)  And there were years in Indonesia.  After expensive prep school in Hawaii, he comes back to an elite college environment.

    So I think not very many of his formative experiences growing up had a whole lot in common with the black experience in America.  I don't wonder he had, to my mind clearly still has, some difficult issues around his identity.  He didn't become a "black male" with all that connotes in U.S. terms until he was an adult and discovered that was the primary label that got put on him, overriding everything else about him.  He could try, unsuccessfully, to fight that label, or he could embrace it.  But to embrace it, he really did, I think, have to learn what the experience was about, and Trinity UCC was the obvious way to do that.

    And I'm sure you're right that Rev. Wright was a pretty vivid black father figure for him. (He did have father figures in his life, but they were white and Indonesian, not African-American.)

    I don't fault him for it, either, but I fault him for how he's handled it for 20 years, and especially now.  And I really dislike his dismissing him now as just "the guy who was the minister of the church I attended."


    Parent

    i agree. but i can't imagine (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by kangeroo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:38:49 PM EST
    just any strong male figure would do, especially as an AA male being raised by all non-AA's. i wonder how his relationship was/is with his stepdad.

    Parent
    okay i'm confused (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by kimsaw on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:31:52 PM EST
    In his mid 20's Obama joined the one of the largest churches on the south side of Chicago. At the time he was a community organizer working with churches and their pastors. A pastor- I think it was Wright- offered that belonging to a church like Trinity would build more trust with the people Obama was trying to help? Apparently Obama joined up with Wright's church in order to gain the trust of his community. Now a campaign advisor steps up and offers he joined and stayed because he was in search of his "blackness".

    Mind you, he was a college grad, a community organizer working on the south side Chicago and he still didn't understand the "black experience". (?) Apparently Obama joins not looking for spiritual communion like others suggest, but to better understand the "black experience in America". Obama continues on his "blackness journey" in church making friends and gaining constituents for years. Then Obama decides to run for office. He has gathered a large constituency and mentors of all sorts. He's got one in real estate where money abounds. One in the pulpit with his 8,000 members.  He's even got Daley patting his back. The patrons list kept growing. Ayers is one name. Obama slices and dices as he advances his game.

    What did Obama learn about his "black experience in America"? He learned how to use AAs until they got it and didn't seem to mind. He no longer has to talk to Smiley. Obama "blackness" is only relevant when needed. He's a symbol of their hopes more than he delivered action for their needs.

    What Obama really learned was not about the "black experience" at all. He learned the art of politics. He learned that loyalty has its limits. Alice Palmer thrown away. His "typical white" grandmother discarded to the media hounds when his political fortunes needed a rebound. His Pastor is no longer mentor simply demented when Wright's voice rang too loud. His money man, Rezko, may have laundered bucks, land and the south side all while Obama blindly bought a place to reside.

    Obama learned how to use the AA community for his own political advancement. None of this is about hope or change on behalf of any one other than about Obama. Bamboozler is his name.


    I would only point (none / 0) (#3)
    by DaytonDem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:10:32 PM EST
    out that no one is cited for the record. I believe that the reason expressed is part of Obama's mind set when joining the Wright church, along with building a political base, but I am suspicious of unattributed "friends".

    Hey, At Least (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by squeaky on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:28:36 PM EST
    It wasn't attributed to a "former Hill staffer".

    Parent
    Obama campaign adviser (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:12:45 PM EST
    ios a very specific sourcing.

    your comment is ridiculous.

    Parent

    Forgive me for (none / 0) (#12)
    by DaytonDem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:17:39 PM EST
    not believing Newsweek as the gospel. And that's from a long time Clinton supporter who has seen many unflattering posts in "respectable" outlets about my candidate. Let's not become what we dislike. Believing those who are against anyway

    Parent
    Forgtive me for not respecting (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:21:29 PM EST
    the ridiculousness of your comment.

    Are you saying you think Newsweek is falsely saying those are the words of an Obama campaign advisor? Then you really have no clue what is wrong with the Media.

    Your comment remains ridiculous, indeed became MORE ridiculous.

    Parent

    My point is (2.00 / 1) (#21)
    by DaytonDem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:25:11 PM EST
    only, and I won't argue it to death, is I do not trust unattributed reports in the media. That goes for those comments against my candidate or or those that tend to support my candidate.

    Parent
    I do not (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:30:24 PM EST
    This is an ATTRIBUTED report. The statement is attributed to an Obama campaign advisor. What part of that do you not get?  

    Parent
    Please compare and contrast with NYT (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:08:33 PM EST
    article about McCain and the female telecom lobbyist.  

    Parent
    attributed sources (none / 0) (#73)
    by Nasarius on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:26:48 PM EST
    But the sources themselves were just speculating without evidence.

    Both seem to be cases of campaign staffers saying really stupid things, for whatever reason.

    Parent

    Obama campaign staffer (none / 0) (#92)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:44:51 PM EST
    The McCain source was John weaver, not the McCain campaign.

    Parent
    It is what they said (none / 0) (#91)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:44:17 PM EST
    that leads to the problem. John Weaver was identified and is not with the McCain campaign.

    Parent
    Weaver was released by McCain (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:29:29 PM EST
    but apparently still providing consultation to the campaign at the time of the NYT article, as I recall.  And he was identified by name in the article.  

    Parent
    BUT IT IS NOT UNATTRIBUTED. (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by rooge04 on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:31:10 PM EST
    It's not gossip on Drudge. It is in fact, something his campaign adviser did ACTUALLY FOR REAL say.

    Parent
    stop it. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Salo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:38:10 PM EST
    That was attributed closely enough.

    Parent
    I also tend to discount comments from unID'd (none / 0) (#32)
    by jawbone on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:34:02 PM EST
    sources "close to the campaign," "advisers," etc.

    I do so re: Hillary and I do so re: Obama.

    I don't necessarily reject them out of hand, but I do consider the source.

    However, I have read elsewhere that Obama did seek out black churches as a means of improving his standing in the black community. So, I balance these things.

    Parent

    The specifci attribution is important (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:48:39 PM EST
    Here an Obama campaign advisor is quoted.

    Of you are discounting that, then you really do not understand the problem with the Media.

    Parent

    "who declined to be identified" (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:12:25 PM EST
    Missing this tag line:  because s/he is not auth to speak on behalf of the campaign, etc.  But that is NYT language.

    On further reflection, you are correct.  

    Parent

    Oh, thank you God! (none / 0) (#4)
    by Shainzona on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:12:03 PM EST
    Actually the longer this thing runs on, the worse BO and friends make it for themselves.

    Hillary will get blamed of course.  But the hits just keep on coming!

    My friends don't know much re: Wright (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by catfish on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:17:57 PM EST
    Many voters still don't know that much about Wright, that Obama sat there for 20 years.

    The attack ads will not start playing until after he clinches the nom.

    Parent

    Tony Randal taught.... (none / 0) (#36)
    by mrjerbub on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:37:28 PM EST
    us that's it's a bad idea to assume. Let the folks vote.

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:14:48 PM EST


    Do not insult me or Jeralyn in your comments (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:28:33 PM EST
    Address the post and do not go off topic or lie about what is said in the post.

    This comment is directed at Indy33 especially who wrote a fallacious and insulting comment which has since been deleted.

    but it applies to evertyone.

    he's been banned (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:01:44 PM EST
    see my comment below. I just re-read about 20 of his comments and they all are attack comments.

    Parent
    Obama's campaign needs to drop Wright (none / 0) (#35)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:36:37 PM EST
    They are only feeding the ridiculous media frenzy over Wright when they feel compelled to defend Obama in reaction to every media (and blog) comment about Wright.  They are not doing Obama any favors.

    By the by, has anyone ever even looked into what Wright has done for the AA community?  Actions (should) speak louder than words.

    Wright/Media frenzy (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:42:44 PM EST
    Barack told us his campaign was post racial and transcended.  He told us its about his life story (including and highlighting his religion and his relationship with his "pastor").  He told us we should trust his judgement.  

    Do you not see that all these three issues are core to the Wright discussion: race, transcending race, culture wars, personal narrative and finally judgement.  

    This is Obama's doing.  No one did it to him.  He wanted to not focus on the "old politics" and boring old promises to voters.  

    Parent

    Bad judgment to allow it to continue (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:51:42 PM EST
    Obama's "great speech" addressed all this.  Obama should have left Wright alone from then on.  His only bad judgment IMO was to enable the media and blogs to continue having a field day with Reverend Wright.

    What about Reverend Wright's actions are such that it would have meant bad judgment to have been a part of his church?  Anybody know?  I don't.  The media and blogs have been too taken with a few of his sound bites to even look at what the man has or hasn't done.

    Parent

    "great speech" (5.00 / 6) (#59)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:03:05 PM EST
    Insulted Wright, a close friend.  He did not talk to him before the "great speech".  His bad judgement was that he should have dealt with Wright from the beginning of the campaign.  He thought no one would notice.  There is a basic conflict in the Obama campaign.

    Bad judgement in playing the game: using Wright for Black creds.  Knowing that Wright's basic theology was on black nationalism.  Basing a campaign on post racial politics.  Using the race card against the Clintons.  Then denying that he ever heard such things and that it was just about Faith.  Now complaining the media is making a bid deal.  The basic premise of his campaign has come down crashing.  

    Parent

    He played the game, sure (none / 0) (#74)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:27:15 PM EST
    My point is that the media is so focused on a few things Wright has said that they have not bothered to find out what he has done.  Maybe looking at what Wright's church has done would reveal that maybe Obama didn't have such bad judgment after all, belonging to his church.  Maybe looking at Wright's actions and his church's actions would reveal the opposite.  But it's very telling that the media hasn't bothered to look.

    And Wright took no offense at the "insult."  He chalked it up to politics.  Which it surely was.

    Obama's bad judgment was in falling all over himself defending, defending, and his campaign doing the same.  Every time he/they spoke about it they tried a different slant which only made it worse.  As now.

    Parent

    Oh, just as an example, the Rev. Wright (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:25:04 PM EST
    purportedly humpping the pulpit at Trinity UCC as he maligned HIllary Clinton.

    Actually, Obama hasn't kept the media's attention on his relationship with the Rev. Wright.  The latter has.

    Parent

    Sadly, (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:32:27 PM EST
    it's not the media's job to try to find the best in the nominees.  It's their job to find the worst.  They don't go around looking to explain or excuse Clinton.  Why should they do that with Obama?

    And Oculus is ri...er...corre...er...  What Oculus said: Wright is the one who kept this story going.  I'll add that it's Obama's fault for not having the political insight to humble himself before the man, stroke his ego, and get him to shut the F up.

    Parent

    I disagree (none / 0) (#85)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    It's been an extremely inflammatory and biased coverage of a flamboyant pastor who says things that make a lot of people uncomfortable.  If any of the major media has looked into the actual doings of his church -- good or bad deeds or ANY deeds -- in a responsible way -- I'll eat my words!

    Parent
    Well, using your standards, one could make (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Anne on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:53:22 PM EST
    the argument that Saddam wasn't the bad guy he was made out to be, because under his rule, the Iraqis had clean water and electricity, they had good schools, jobs, and a decent standard of living, and women were not oppressed by religious laws, etc.  But, I don't hear people making that argument.

    Now, I am not  - NOT - comparing Wright to Saddam; what I am doing is showing you that your argument that Wright's good works cancel out his inflammatory and divisive rhetoric is just flat-out wrong.

    The church does good works - they feed the hungry, build housing for the elderly, shelter the homeless, provide AIDS education and mentor and provide scholarships to young people.  All good things, all eminently worthy.

    It is possible to do good things and preach division and anger and help people hold onto their anger and their fear.

    My question is, if Obama is such a game-changer, such a master of unity and hope, why didn't he use those gifts to bring Jeremiah Wright and the people of Trinity to a better place?

    I ask the same question relative to his time in the Senate - the perfect place to make the change he thinks he represents.  What has he done?

    Parent

    what you want is a fluff piece (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Kathy on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:05:30 PM EST
    "Look at how great this church is, even though the pastor is a racist hate-monger!"  The media does not work that way.  It is the campaign's job to try to frame the narrative, and Obama (Axelrod) failed miserably at this.

    And, I think the reason for the failure is that Obama simply did not see how inflammatory and divisive Wright was--that his "uncle" was political cyanide.

    Parent

    "Doings of the Church" (none / 0) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:42:17 PM EST
    Obama chose to use the pastor's words not his doings:"audacity of Hope".  

    Parent
    Oh my (none / 0) (#79)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:30:03 PM EST
    That's crude but it doesn't hold much of a candle to the other media insults and outrageous behavior in reference to Senator Clinton!  Why that's relatively mild.  It's only shocking because it comes from Obama's former pastor and the media wants to run with it.

    And what's up with "purportedly?"  We have example after example from our lovely media friends that all have seen and heard.

    Parent

    I say "purportedly" because (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:33:23 PM EST
    I haven't watched any of the video or read transcripts of the Rev. Wright's statements or actions.  I live in a cave!

    Parent
    Cave dweller (none / 0) (#86)
    by Lora on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:37:34 PM EST
    Me too! :-)

    Parent
    No we do not (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:45:14 PM EST
    There are no comments referring to Obama as an Oreo cookie in this thread. None.

    As for Obama joining the chiurch to become black, shockingly and wrongly, it was his own campaign advisor who is saying it.

    It is horrible.

    That is why I am condemning it in this post.

    Finally, If you can not stop insulting me and Jeralyn, you must go. Can you stop? If you can't, you will be banned.

    This comment is to Indy33 (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:46:07 PM EST
    and I want an answer from him or I will recommend his banning.

    Parent
    Indy 33 is a poster (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 04, 2008 at 12:58:57 PM EST
    who also goes by the name Independence 33. He chatters and all of his posts attack this site or its positions. He is being banned by me for rudeness, incivility, personal attacks and chattering.

    Parent
    i wonder if it's "blackness" so much as (none / 0) (#62)
    by kangeroo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:09:35 PM EST
    a connection to his father that he was searching for.  from what i've read about the undeniable impact on sons of growing up without fathers, this would make a whole lot of sense to me.  and to that extent, though i'm certainly upset with obama for a lot of the things this season, i do feel sad for him.

    I get the search for a connection (none / 0) (#67)
    by kredwyn on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:16:42 PM EST
    with the father thing. It seems to me that there are a lot of different avenues that can take.

    But did his quest stop with this particular church? And what exactly was it that made the connection for him?

    Parent

    from what i've read about the (none / 0) (#99)
    by kangeroo on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:14:26 PM EST
    experiences of fatherless sons, i can't imagine the quest will stop anytime soon; i understand it to be an enduring and indefinite source of inner confusion and frustration.  i wish there was a psychologist in the house to weigh in on this.

    Parent
    Bad politics (none / 0) (#69)
    by Steve M on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:19:05 PM EST
    But it's a reasonably fair characterization of what Obama says in his own book, right?  I haven't read it.

    And he chose to learn this... (none / 0) (#72)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:26:36 PM EST
    ...from a man who seems to think that white Americans are all arrogant racists?  I didn't need to join a militant feminist group to know what it was like to be a woman in America. I just have to look at the management of my company (all male) and remember hearing the words of the (former) boss who told me that I was earning less than the men I worked with because they had families to support, when every one of them had wives who worked, while I was struggling to pay a mortgage on a single paycheck. I can find dozens more examples off the top of my head about what it means to be a woman in America. I don't need to learn about it from somebody who is trapped in the 60's.  I experience it every day.

    Y'know, Wright is bad enough, but (none / 0) (#101)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:16:16 PM EST
    it really is not fair to say that he thinks white Americans are all arrogant racists.  He doesn't think that.  He condemns the white power structure and the U.S. government as an institution.  I actually don't disagree with the substance of much -- not all -- of what he says about that.

    A good chunk of his parishioners are white, apparently, and he is very well-regarded in the UCC church, which is overwhelmingly white.  I assume that would not be the case if he was thought to believe all whites are stone racists.

    He's bad enough, we don't need to inflate him into worse than he is by careless or hasty exaggerration.

    Parent

    I've read his words (none / 0) (#108)
    by dianem on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:38:00 PM EST
    I'm afraid I have to stand by what I said. I think that people make excuses for his words because he also does good things for the community, and because there is a perception in our society that it's okay for black people to be bitter because they really were treated incredibly badly for so long. But his words were hateful, and in my mind they clearly indicated that he feels not only that white people have rights that black people don't, but that we feel that we are deserving of more rights than they have. Perhaps "arrogant racists" is a bit harsh, but I feel that it captures the spirit of how he seems to feel about white people. It's like saying that right-wingers think that Hispanics are "lazy illegal aliens". Most of them would not use those exact words, but the feeling is there.

    Parent
    Sniff. Sniff. Initial smell test. (none / 0) (#75)
    by wurman on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:27:58 PM EST
    Concerning Oprah Winfrey:  
    --According to two sources, Winfrey . . . .
    said one longtime friend, who requested anonymity . . . .
       --a former business associate, who also asked for anonymity. . . .
       --friends say she was blindsided . . . .
       --said her close friend . . . .

    Concerning Sen. Obama:
    --said one campaign adviser, who declined to be named . . . .

    Newsweek May not be the most trusted name in cereal box reading--you can get more info from the label on your oaties.  The author of this item is Allison Samuels.  A quick check of her previous article titles indicates that she is a "sort of gossip columnist," and Rona Barrett she ain't.  In some respects, these 'about Oprah' comments resemble the national tabloids near your super market checkout counter.  

    A quick scan of a few past "performances" seems to show that Ms. Samuels may be a step up from "Entertainment Tonight" & a cut below Us.  Her tale is 'not for attribution,' so you may need a shaker full of salt grains.

    Nonsense (none / 0) (#89)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun May 04, 2008 at 01:42:01 PM EST
    Just nonsense. A campaign advisor is a campaign advisor. I am appalled at the lack of knowledge in the media criticism I am seeing from some of you.

    I thought I had elevated that here. This is reading like a Big Orange thread.

    Parent

    BTD, given that (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun May 04, 2008 at 02:23:22 PM EST
    everybody and his dog is characterized by much of media as a "campaign adviser," I don't find that term in Newsweek particularly illuminating, either.  I don't even know what it means.  Not a staffer, presumably.  Not just a supporter, presumably.  But maybe only one of the legions of people who have enough contact with the campaign to make phone calls or send emails to the campaign about one thing or another, then bill themselves to the media as a "campaign adviser."  Top people with official advisory roles are usually termed "senior adviser" to distinguish them from the hordes of hangers-on.  That this person wasn't called a "senior adviser" raises the strong possiblity in my mind that he/she isn't in reality particularly close to the actual campaign structure.  IMO.

    Parent
    Gossip (none / 0) (#116)
    by wurman on Sun May 04, 2008 at 03:41:49 PM EST
    The article is in the "Periscope" section of Newsweek, not "Politics."

    Related articles check shows many more Oprah tidbits of the supermarket tabloid variety.

    This is less than credible.  Even if it is true to some extent, or another, it is of dubious value--probably more applicable to Ms. Winfrey than Sen. Obama.

    Put your search engine on "campaign advisor barack obama" & follow the thread--there must be hundreds of stories using the "advisor" label & each one seems to reference a different character.

    Parent

    To find his identity (none / 0) (#124)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun May 04, 2008 at 06:01:32 PM EST
    From the first I learned of this church and Obama's connection, I thought he was there to learn about his paternal race.  He had been raised almost completely in his white world, and not just white, but rather priviledged and in Hawaii.  I don't find the campaign advisor's remarks the least bit offensive. These are the kinds of admissions I'd like to hear from Obama. They are real and human.

    There was a recent article in Time about Barack's mother. Her high school friend said that after Barack wrote his first book, she asked his mother if she was hurt by the book being almost entirely about the man who fathered, but abandoned him so early in his life. She said his mother's response was that Barack had to deal with these issues in his own way.  I raised two children whose father abandoned them early in life, it leaves terrible holes in identity.

    As for Oprah, it doesn't surprise me that she left that church. She's a very public figure who is acutely aware of her image and what is good for her.  Oprah addresses the subject of race so much that I finally became uncomfortable watching her program.

    Whiteness (none / 0) (#131)
    by allpeopleunite on Sun May 04, 2008 at 08:02:14 PM EST
    How come no one ever talks of Obama's whiteness. He is after all biracial.