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Indiana Results: Thread Three

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:22:42 PM EST
Tags: Indiana '08 (all tags)
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They are hand counting the absentee ballots in Lake County, Indiana where Gary is situated. The networks are waiting for those results to call the race.

One million votes are in and HIllary leads 52% to 48%. Fox's Britt Hume says they know what is going on they just aren't ready to say so.

Obama's lead in North Carolina right now is 14%.

This is an open thread for all thoughts on tonight's primary results and the Democratic nomination.

< Brazile vs. Begala on CNN: Brazile's Blowout | Hillary's Speech >

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    Indiana Results: Thread Three | 81 comments (81 topical)

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    Obama's "surprise" win in NC (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:33:06 PM EST
    was really something, wasn't it? I'm plum wore out. NO ONE saw that one coming.


    Lake country is not a good place (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by gabbyone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:35:00 PM EST
    to have a problem.  They are not known for their
    honesty and have had a lot of election problems in that county over the years.  Fox is probably right this is fishy.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#28)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:36:05 PM EST
    Did they have a problem recently?

    Parent
    looks to me like lake county... (none / 0) (#48)
    by p lukasiak on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:43:03 PM EST
    is part of the Chicago Elections Market...

    find out how many votes you need to win, and that's what you report.

    Parent

    I was going to hold back on that (none / 0) (#56)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:45:48 PM EST
    You know, I'm wondering if that wouldn't be for the better at this point.

    Parent
    You're not serious. nt (none / 0) (#79)
    by Joelarama on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:39:50 PM EST


    Parent
    In 2006 the people got to the polls and (none / 0) (#67)
    by gabbyone on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:54:45 PM EST
    half of the machines weren't working and they had to bring in paper ballots....they always seem to be counting late.

    Parent
    28% of Lake County Reporting (none / 0) (#80)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:53:19 PM EST
    28% of the vote in Lake County now being reporting at CNN - with 75% of the votes going for Obama -- this is 8% higher than highest percent he's gotten in any other county, i.e., Marion County, which includes Indianapolis.  

    I am very suspect about what's going on here.


    Parent

    Even Chris Matthews is questioning Gary (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by joanneleon on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:36:12 PM EST
    He asked if they were delaying their reporting for dramatic effect.

    I find it very suspicious that the entire state's results are in, most have been in for hours, and the closest city to Chicago is out there sitting on its votes.

    I hope there are a lot of people watching what's going on.

    Sadly (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Coldblue on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:40:52 PM EST
    it is time for Hillary to say good night.

    She needed a double digit win in Indiana and a single digit loss in North Carolina to swing the electability argument in her favor. It appears that the opposite has occurred.

    While the remaining primary contests are forecast to be in her favor, given today's results I doubt that her margin of victory will be close to the current polling results.

    Hillary has inspired me more than any politician in decades; Mr Obama, not at all.

    So I have a dilemma in that I really don't want to vote for Obama.

    Yeah, don't vote for him... (none / 0) (#63)
    by sar75 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:51:37 PM EST
    ... instead, you should abet a McCain victory by either staying home or voting for him directly.

    Man, I support Obama, but would absolutely positively vote for Hillary if she is the nominee.  That anyone here wouldn't - and still call themselves a Democrat or progressive - is shameful. You just don't care about actual policy.

    Parent

    I think Coldblue is saying (none / 0) (#65)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:53:01 PM EST
    that she will vote for Obama anyway. That's certainly my intention.

    We often do what we don't want to.

    Parent

    YEAH! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:42:34 PM EST
    Hillary is speaking and says she's continuing on! I can't wait to hear Donna Brazille when they return to the pundit table after this :)

    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by liminal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:44:09 PM EST
    has been on the air in WV.  He's running a feel good ad, where he adopts his faux-drawl and talks about what happens "when the plant closes and ships your jobs to China."  WV lost its consumer-goods manufacturing base 20+ years ago.  What we have left are the heaviest of the heavy industries: steel, railroad cars, chemical manufacturing, paints.  I can think of a few plant closings recently, but I relate them to the housing downturn (window manufacturers, and the like) rather than to some generic Chinese boogeyman.  

    Clearly, I'm in the tank for Clinton, but the ad strikes me as patronizing.  Is that the best Obama and has team can do?  Is that their image of the working class?  I know many folks who work with their hands, in the construction trades, in various mechanical and mine service industries, in chemical valley, in steel.

    Blah.  Anyway, I also saw my first HRC ad tonight, though I wasn't paying much attention.  

    Not voting thanks to ID law (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Lora on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    These voters did not have a chance to cast their ballots today thanks to Indiana's repressive ID law, upheld by the SCOTUS.

    They include nuns, students, military, and elderly.

    From the Brad Blog (emphasis mine):

    Remember, the law was upheld by the Supremes just last week, despite Indiana's inability to point to a single instance of in-person, polling place, voter impersonation fraud (the type of "voter fraud" the law was purportedly meant to deter) in the entire history of the state.

    Backwards, repressive, pathetic.

    I worry about counting the vote, but the votes aren't even there to count.

    Media Control (4.00 / 3) (#15)
    by JavaCityPal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:36 PM EST
    The results tonight were good for Hillary. She closed the 25% lead in NC by 10%, and from all accounts she should win Indiana. The media is trying to call it the end of the "Clinton era", that the superdelegates are bound to a vote for Obama because of their own fictious reasoning. It feels like our democracy is at serious risk, and we're allowing the media to do this.

    The anger I have as a Hillary supporter is deeply based in the bias, the FL and MI outcomes being delayed so she couldn't prove herself a competitive candidate to the media.

    This isn't the end of the road, the delegate count has not achieved the total needed, and I'm grateful for the tenacity of Hillary.


    Well (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:35:24 PM EST
    Historically whenever the media has tried to push Hillary out of the race, it has been good for her campaign.  I welcome their hatred.

    Parent
    Goodnight Gracie (1.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:43:46 PM EST


    Stay classy (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Steve M on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:48:10 PM EST


    Parent
    lol - class ? (1.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:04:50 PM EST
    there are at least 100 posts from Hillary supporters here that I think Rush Limbaugh might be embarassed to say.  Obama is our candidate, like it or not

    Parent
    Does anyone know what the possible vote totals are (none / 0) (#1)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:24:43 PM EST
    in Lake? How big is Gary?

    40k voted in 04 (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:31:37 PM EST
    i think gary is about a 1/3 but not certain

    Parent
    see my map and post on demographics (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:37:56 PM EST
    Here..it's not that big.

     What to look for in Indiana: How well Obama does in three areas, Gary which is 85% African American with a total population of 100,000; Indianapolis, which is 25% black and has a population of 780,000, and the college towns, particularly Bloomington. For Hillary, check the turnout along the Western side of the state under the northern counties and St. Joseph County with South Bend which has a lot of Catholics-- and a population of 265,000.

    Here are the official voter registration stats for Indiana as of April 30.  Unfortunately, they are not broken down by county



    Parent
    Sounds like he could win (none / 0) (#46)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:43:00 PM EST
    Indianna with Gary.

    Parent
    Big enough -- 11,000 absentee ballots (none / 0) (#73)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:08:11 PM EST
    claimed in Gary's Lake County, according to Fox.

    If that's the absentees alone . . . could be bad.

    Parent

    theyoungturks.com are commenting on the (none / 0) (#2)
    by thereyougo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:24:49 PM EST
    election. First time for me to hear them.

    Fox says it's fishy in Gary (none / 0) (#3)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:25:28 PM EST
    -- sorry for repeating this from the last thread as it closed -- and it was told that Gary results won't be in until midnight.  A commentator who seems to know Gary says it has a history of this, of finding absentee ballots as needed.

    At the least, this is costing Clinton prime time for her speech.

    A little Chicago flavor (none / 0) (#6)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:28:40 PM EST
    In Gary?

    Parent
    Yes -- after all, iEast Chicago (none / 0) (#14)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:32 PM EST
    is one of the cities in Gary's county, as I recall.   Maybe the new term to describe this will be not the "Chicago Way" but the "East Chicago Way."

    Parent
    Jeffery Tobin said (none / 0) (#78)
    by MichaelGale on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:25:23 PM EST
    that the Gary area vote delay is unheard of and there are a lot of problems with voting in that area.  Says that voting problems are sneaky problems like not ethical and it needs to be said and watched.

    Also was stated that it's "old" Chicago politics and the hours of the polls being open were weird.

    I paraphrased but that he sounded an alarm.

    Parent

    I'm getting a FL in 2000 feeling (none / 0) (#31)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:36:51 PM EST
    the fix, as they say, is in.

    Parent
    it is ok.. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Leisa on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:48:26 PM EST
    this may be they way it must be...  time will tell.

    It feels like Bush III will be running...

    Parent

    I thought she was going to smoke him by (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:26:22 PM EST
    more in Indiana but....oh well, I think she still won the "tie breaker".  He got NC and wasn't he supposed to have NC in his back pocket?  Gee, he did......who knew?

    Jeezus (none / 0) (#5)
    by Salo on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:27:14 PM EST
    These guys are good at the machine stuff.

    Orders from on high.

    Yep, 15% of IN votes still out (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:26 PM EST
    and that's almost all Gary's county, with only one other and much smaller one also out on the other side of the state.  I really don't like what could be going on here, with only about a 40,000 vote margin between HRC and BO.

    Parent
    Daley (none / 0) (#10)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:51 PM EST
    Obama's whole campaign is machine -- that's why it is so laughable when anyone says Clinton is the status quo candidate. Review any media coverage and it says otherwise.

    Parent
    Review the 1960 election (none / 0) (#20)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:33:15 PM EST
    and Daddy Daley's role.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#35)
    by tnjen on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:38:10 PM EST
    Problem is Daley doesn't control me or the other 50% of Democratic voters.

    Parent
    where were you guys in 60? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:07:37 PM EST
    I hope you were out protesting on behalf of the right for the behavior of Daley.

    Parent
    It wasn't evident enough (none / 0) (#75)
    by Cream City on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:10:40 PM EST
    right away then, not until weeks after the election.

    Pulling it in a primary, though, could be soon enough and then some to start discussion of all sorts of things seen already this year.

    Parent

    Win (none / 0) (#7)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:10 PM EST
    for Obama.  There is no rational path to the nomination.  She will behind in votes, delegates and states.  

    Loser in the fall! (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by RalphB on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:34:11 PM EST
    for Obama.  He'll be behind in electoral votes, whoopee.

    Parent
    Kennedy went to the convention (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:37:55 PM EST
    behind 1000 delegates. Obama has no chance of reaching the magic number---the real magic number. In addition, his people were saying IN is a must win. Hillary will continue.

    Parent
    She should (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:39:09 PM EST
    There's no reason for her to drop out

    Parent
    no reason (none / 0) (#64)
    by AgreeToDisagree on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:52:30 PM EST
    except she can't win and she continues to run a negative campaign.  she is bringing down the party...

    Parent
    You're missing the boat (none / 0) (#66)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:54:27 PM EST
    The Democratic party is tearing apart the Democratic party. You've seen the numbers on race, right? That's not her fault.

    Parent
    again (none / 0) (#74)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:08:59 PM EST
    show me ONE demographic that has been more loyal to the democratic party than african americans.

    I have been waiting for several hours now.

    Parent

    You're not addressing MY point (none / 0) (#76)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:10:53 PM EST
    And you're also frankly wrong. Jews have been just about as loyal. Not to mention a smattering of other, smaller, groups.

    You can only win with the whole Democratic party.

    Parent

    Really (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:28:11 AM EST
    can you provide some numbers that validate that? Not even close.

    You are right, Hillary NEEDS the entire dem party to win the election, right now she has about 48% and Obama at 52%.

    Perhaps a refresher in math might help.

    Parent

    Numerical counting of states is meaningless. (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:41:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Maybe we could change it to - (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by liminal on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:45:36 PM EST
    "number of counties," since Obama voters like number arguments so much.  I'm sure she'd win there.  ;)

    Parent
    or better yet, (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:51:09 PM EST
    count it by congressional districts, since that will be the metric that counts in the fall.

    Parent
    Big win for McCain. (none / 0) (#30)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:36:28 PM EST
    he'll be getting huge bucks once Hillary drops out, and the country will be blanketed with ads featuring Wright's hate speech, and explaining in detail Obama's close relationship with a left wing Paul Hill type, as well as mercilessly mocking Obama for saying he is qualified to lead the country because he was a community organizer and because he spent  4 years in Indonesia as a child.

    Parent
    The ridicule will do it (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:41:24 PM EST
    Hillary has shielded him from that but I can see entire panels of "pundits" giggling as they compare community organizer to war hero.

    MoDo probably has her columns already written.

    Parent

    It's pathetic. He has the biggest ego with even (none / 0) (#43)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:42:21 PM EST
    less reason than W, who at least was worth millions of dollars and a 2 term governor when he ran.

    Parent
    Plus the mayor of Gary bussed in high school (none / 0) (#8)
    by athyrio on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:29:18 PM EST
    seniors that can vote to get them to vote absentee all at taxpayer expense of course....

    And of course the kids... (none / 0) (#44)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:42:23 PM EST
    were under no pressure to vote for Obama. Right.

    Parent
    LAKE COUNTY STALLS, NOT READY FOR PRIMETIME (none / 0) (#11)
    by flyersfanjs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:30:53 PM EST
    I can't believe Lake County has not reported 1 vote!  

    They're trying to keep (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:33:52 PM EST
    Clinton from being able to make her win speech tonight.  It's a game.

    Parent
    Oregon is the target audience... (none / 0) (#32)
    by ineedalife on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:37:06 PM EST
    and it is only 7:30 there. Prime time.

    Parent
    I can't believe it either. (none / 0) (#17)
    by Faust on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:41 PM EST


    Parent
    TALK TALK TALK TALK (none / 0) (#13)
    by flyersfanjs on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:28 PM EST
    The biggest victory tonight is for the Obama spin machine.

    Don't mind me... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Adept Havelock on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:41 PM EST
    I'm just waiting for the "game changer" I was promised.

    it's right next to the "tie-breaker" (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:40:10 PM EST
    :)

    Parent
    This sucks for Hillary. (none / 0) (#18)
    by sweetthings on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:32:47 PM EST
    She's going to be giving a victory speech to a nation that's already gone to bed.

    that was the intent (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:33:48 PM EST
    but foo on them -- I'm staying up.

    Parent
    She's on now. (none / 0) (#47)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:43:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Not sure how many will get this (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:34:46 PM EST
    But right now I feel like Agent Dale Cooper in the final scene of episode 14.

    I'll explain later.

    Twin Peaks I get (none / 0) (#38)
    by angie on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:39:58 PM EST
    but it was too long ago for me to remember episode 14.
    I await your explanation.

    Parent
    yeah well (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:45:11 PM EST
    It's the scene where he's at the road house and the old man bellhop shows up and touches him on the shoulder and says "I'm so sorry".  Shakes his head sadly and moves on.

    Parent
    If Hillary ends up losing after (none / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:35:10 PM EST
    all of the votes are counted in Indiana, I hope she'll drop out so she spares Obama the extreme embarrassment of a 40 point loss in WV. That he might still lose there even if she drops out is chastening. . .

    It has dawned on me (none / 0) (#36)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:38:28 PM EST
    With the new Politics we will change the Old Washington politics with the Old Chicago politics.

    Heh, I was talking to my mom about (none / 0) (#57)
    by kayla on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:46:24 PM EST
    Obama going on and on about how there's something wrong with Washington and she goes, "Well, what's wrong with Chicago?"

    Parent
    What metric (none / 0) (#50)
    by faux facsimile on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:43:53 PM EST
    determines a victory these days? A net of ~200,000 votes doesn't seem to shabby to me.

    When all is said and done... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Adept Havelock on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:45:18 PM EST
    I think the biggest question no matter whom you support in the primary, is do you want Clinton/Obama, or 4-8 more years of Bushesque Judicial nominations.

    I want a Democratic candidate (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:46:57 PM EST
    who feels a need to have real Democrats in their party.

    Parent
    Sure, (none / 0) (#61)
    by Adept Havelock on Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:50:21 PM EST
    I can understand that, but the choice will be between Clinton or Obama, and 4-8 more years of Bushesque judicial nominations (likely including 2 SC seats).

    Parent
    The choice is between Clinton and McCain (none / 0) (#68)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:04:18 PM EST
    .. don't you get it?

    Parent
    That (none / 0) (#70)
    by Adept Havelock on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:06:30 PM EST
    is certainly one of two possible outcomes.


    Parent
    There is no third.. no Obama in the WH. (none / 0) (#72)
    by MarkL on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:07:43 PM EST


    Parent
    I hope... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Thanin on Tue May 06, 2008 at 10:12:24 PM EST
    that HRC wins the nom too, but these kinds of posts make us look childish.

    Parent
    Indiana Results: Thread Three | 81 comments (81 topical)

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