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The Morning After: Clinton Fights On

She fights on:

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton vowed to fight on, heading early Wednesday for a new round of speeches, rallies and town meetings in West Virginia, which holds its primary on May 13.

She is putting up her own money:

Mrs. Clinton has lent her campaign more than $6 million over the last month, according to campaign officials. She did so, they said, in three installments: $5 million on April 11, $1 million on May 1, and $425,000 on May 5.

It has been said by some none too bright people that it is up to the losing candidate to unify the Party. This is simply balderdash. It is almost certain that Obama will be the nominee. He needs to unify the Party. His blog supporters are silly so one need not consider them too much. But people like Donna Brazile can do him great harm. Her performance last night was proof positive that she should be shooed off the stage by the Democratic Party:

BEGALA: We cannot win with egg heads. We cannot win with egg heads and African-Americans. OK, that is the Dukakis Coalition, which carried ten states and gave us four years of the first George Bush.

President Clinton — reached across to get a whole lot of Republicans and Independents to come. I think Senator Obama and Senator Clinton both have that capacity. They both have a unique ability – well it’s not unique if they both have it. They both have a remarkable ability to reach out to those working-class white folks and Latinos. Senator Clinton has proven it; Barack has not yet, but he can. And I certainly hope he is not shutting the door on expanding the party.

. . .

BRAZILE: Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul. But, Paul, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Donna Brazile is a cancer in the Democratic Party.

By Big Tent Democrat

< Open Thread | Hillary's Options >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Donna Brazile (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by bjorn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:00:13 AM EST
    is a cancer and she needs to be surgically removed.  I don't trust her to sit on the rules committee.  But I guess it is a moot point since ABC, NBC, and everyone else is essentially calling Obama the nominee this morning.  So be it, then he should act like the nominee and call Clinton and get things figured out.  He should be reaching out to her right now.  I hope he is.

    I don't know about Brazille (3.50 / 4) (#77)
    by cpa1 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:45 AM EST
    I kind of like her because she is honest.  I respect honestyand I can see where she could be compelled to want a black president.  I think she's wrong but I beleive she has integrity.

    Obama, on the other hand, is the liar and the liar is the cancer.  However, the real malignancy is the press, that pushed out Edwards by making the race early on between Clinton and Obama and constantly postulating that Hillary was a liar.  Obama was the pimp and the members press were his whores, spreading the disease of race baiting and character assassination.  Brazille was a Saint compared to Obama and Jack Cafferty and Frank Rich and the NY Times and the Washington Post and Keith Olbermann.  All these holier than though jerks who couldn't take the time I took to find out what actually happened in South Carolina.  

    Obama and the press are the cancers that need to be removed.

    Parent

    Seems to me (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by OldCoastie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:00:53 AM EST
    that Donna Brazille has not won anything in a long time. Last night's comments show why.

    Can I rec that you not (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by kredwyn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:25:05 AM EST
    try that approach again when talking to people who don't support your candidate?

    Vinegar and upbraiding don't work all that well.

    Enjoy the finger cramp.

    Parent

    Yet you (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:27:24 AM EST
    continue to come and insult the people here.  Interesting (passive-aggressive) personality type.

    Parent
    Obama doesn't want your vote (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:13:40 PM EST
    That's what Donna's telling us.

    Why shouldn't we believe her?

    We've gotten into a lot of trouble with the Republicans because we didn't believe them.

    Why not believe Brazile? There's no reason to censure her for telling the truth; this is what she believes, and that's the kind of campaign Obama is running.

    So why not face the facts and move forward, instead of shushing her?

    NOTE It makes no difference that Obama's supporters are silly; they'll create their own reality, silly or not.

    Parent

    no kidding (none / 0) (#176)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:30:59 PM EST
    Why shouldn't we believe her?

    We've gotten into a lot of trouble with the Republicans because we didn't believe them.

    I believe her.

    I wholeheartedly intend to take her at face value.

    Parent

    hmmmm (none / 0) (#78)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:49 AM EST
    ... all those Alabamians and Idahoans and Alaskans and Virginians and Marylanders and Minnesotans and Wisconsinites and ...

    only the last three will deliver any electoral real estate.  The first three are holding the party to an impossible standard (and probably voted without knowing much about their chosen one.)

    Parent

    Why do both sides have to hurl insults at voters (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by fuzzyone on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:13 AM EST
    who disagree with them:

    and probably voted without knowing much about their chosen one

    There are good reasons to support either candidate.  It convinces no one when either side calls the other stupid, ill-informed, etc.  And let me be clear both sides do it.

    Parent

    you don't get anywhere... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:31 AM EST
    ...by insulting voters who support senator obama, or states that he won in the primary, and people from those states who voted for him.  I get that you are an adamant Senator Clinton supporter, that you dislike the talking heads backing Obama, etc.  But the dismissive attitude in the wake of Super Tuesday really injured the Clinton campaign.

    Parent
    everytime DB is on the tube (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:02:12 AM EST
    Obama loses a few hundred votes

    and the DNC loses money... (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by kredwyn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:21:35 AM EST
    And the baby Jesus cries... (none / 0) (#149)
    by otherlisa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:45:04 AM EST
    that would be MetaJesus... (none / 0) (#159)
    by kredwyn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:57:49 AM EST
    crying.

    Parent
    Think You Forgot a Zero Or Two n/t (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:41:04 AM EST
    If Brazile has just said (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:15 AM EST
    We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
    I don't think there would have been any problem. . .

    As to Hillary, I think the media narrative has turned so sharply against her that she really can't stay in. However, I worry about the impact of having the person who will clearly not be the nominee win WV by 30-40 points. Perhaps that will be her way of getting on the ticket. That's fine with me.

    Been thinking about what it would take (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by NotThatStupid on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:49:24 AM EST
    ... for me to vote for Obama, should he be nominated. I'll admit that right now I'm leaning to being a -2 should that happen (i.e., I'd vote for Senator McCain). Here's my list of what is required to get my vote:

    1. Obama would have to choose a VP who is a foreign policy wonk. I don't trust his judgment and experience there.

    2. He'd also have to let us know who his SecDef would be in advance, and it would have to be someone who has the support and trust of the military.

    3. The Democratic party would have to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations now, when their votes still can make a difference to the nomination.

    4. The DNC would have to demand the resignation - from all official party positions - of Donna Brazile, because of her outrageous statements regarding working class voters and the party's "new coalition."

    5. Senator Obama would have to apologize to the Clintons for portraying them as racists during the campaign.

    6. Senator Obama also needs to apologize for the sexism his campaign has demonstrated.

    7. Senator Obama also has to demand that his "former" pastor apologize to Senator Clinton for the disgusting insults he hurled at her from his pulpit.

    If all those things happen, then I could vote for him in the GE. Otherwise, I'm voting the other way.

    Parent
    Very good points... (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:07:16 PM EST
    but, I have found his campaign to be so vile, and disrespectful that I don't know if he can redeem himself with apologies. That he would rather give us a Reagan economy than a Clinton economy is baffling to me.


    Parent
    not the media's choice...too much power to them. (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:34:50 PM EST
    As to Hillary, I think the media narrative has turned so sharply against her that she really can't stay in.

    The problem is, that would mean the media gets to decide...and democracy really is dead.

    And I'm not ok with that. No American should be ok with the media having the right to decide important questions that are supposed to be up to voters.

    I will resist, in any way I can, a world in which the media gets to manipulate the election outcome. In this case, I will do it by simply accepting that the race isn't over until Clinton concedes.

    Then, when she does, I am reregistering independent, and I will start looking for ways to help defeat these trolls who have taken over my Democratic party. If there is no way to restore the party I was loyal to, I will start worrying about where to go next.

    Parent

    that would be fine with me too! (none / 0) (#15)
    by bjorn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:05:48 AM EST
    She has to be on the ticket now. (none / 0) (#32)
    by lilburro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:09:42 AM EST
    It's inevitable.  I can't see a ticket that doesn't include Hillary.  Obama will need Hillary's demos and Bill's campaigning assistance.

    Parent
    Then Obama shouldn't have smeared the Clintons (none / 0) (#164)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:25 PM EST
    as racists, destroying their brand.

    Parent
    Then Obama shouldn't have smeared the Clintons (none / 0) (#165)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:36 PM EST
    as racists, destroying their brand.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#190)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:10:59 PM EST
    but, that's a decision only the two of them can make.

    Parent
    Why would she possibly (none / 0) (#211)
    by seeker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:42:05 PM EST
    want to be VP?  She can be independent in the Senate, and would go down with Obama.

    If she did take it, it would be even more evidence that she truly cares about the party.  That would be as impressive as anything she has yet done.

    Parent

    The shift in the media narrative (none / 0) (#105)
    by Faust on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:32:03 AM EST
    is really the key here. That shift is not without reason but it will pick up momentum now. Mass Media creates our Mass Reality.

    As the media shifts a feedback loop will begin and the end will come.

    I wonder if she will go all the way to Puerto Rico?

    Or will she see how Oregon goes?

    Parent

    the media narrative (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Josey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:36:28 AM EST
    is driven by their corporate sponsors and some of those sponsors are the oil companies that Hillary is taking on!
    No one messes with the precious oil companies!


    Parent
    She said this morning (none / 0) (#191)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:12:17 PM EST
    she is continuing until a nominee is absolutely decided.  Sounds like convention to me.


    Parent
    Doubt it. (none / 0) (#202)
    by Faust on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:38:09 PM EST
    It will depend on superdelegate trends. I do think after reviewing the days news she will stay in until every remaining contest has been waged though.

    Parent
    not to me (none / 0) (#140)
    by dws3665 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:27:52 AM EST
    The first part is fine, but who is talking about throwing out anybody? The whole "baby and bathwater" suggests that its someone's agenda to throw something out. The only ones I see (and I am admittedly not unbiased) throwing something out/not reaching out is Obama/Brazile.

    This phrase was very poorly chosen and suggests to me the Brazile faction of the DNC's "Clinton purge" agenda.

    Good luck with that.

    Parent

    AAAAARRRGH! (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Fabian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:17 AM EST
    Ooooooh!  If I had that feces-for-frontal-lobes Brazile in front of me now, I'd give her glib self a serious tongue lashing.

    Bloggers annoy me when they are oblivious and short sighted.  So-called "leaders" infuriate me.  

    OK....Well, Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:28 AM EST
    puts her money into it, then I'll send her some, too.

    Apparently, she's decided to give the remaining voters their voice.

    I'd prefer her to bow out.  I hate to hear one more word about how she's hurting the party, etc.

    yeah (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Nasarius on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:09:57 AM EST
    On the other hand, they've gone this far, why not wrap it up properly? Two or four more weeks won't make or break the election in November.

    Parent
    I'm now convinced she should see it on out...... (none / 0) (#138)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:26:07 AM EST
    Why not?  Come this far, and apparently people would feel bad if she bowed out before the votes are counted.

    It's for the voters, really.

    Parent

    I would prefer her to stay (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:20:23 AM EST
    You only have a few more states and Puerto Rico. I know how I felt in Feb not having a say in Penna and I know how I felt being a part of the process when I did have a say. Let them have their say also. At this point I do not believe that Hillary staying in the race will be the cause of any more split than there is. The DNC and what Obama and his supporters have said is the cause. Donna's words last night can not be retracted. We all knew her opinion, but she did not even hide it behind her 'Undeclared'. Right. And if Dean is still mad at what happened in 04, then I can actually believe that is why he wanted the DNC chairmanship so much. I can also wonder if maybe he, a DC outsider, would have made a good President. He was exciting and got my political juices flowing again, but now I have to wonder. Donna has sure insulted me and let me know that I am not included in the 'new' Democratic party. BTW, she is not exactly a 'younger' voter herself But she is AA.

    Parent
    Nodding (none / 0) (#139)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:26:56 AM EST
    I can also see that the other side is going to be polite about this.

    I just couldn't stand the bullying that I assumed would be coming.  

    Parent

    The netroots (nutroots) are a problem. (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by AX10 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:05:46 AM EST
    They are basically either one of two things,
    "left wing" extremists like Michael Moore or they are the affluent "creative" class of people who can afford to have a fast talker like Obama in power who will not do much to better the lives of the working class.

    If you look at sites such as Democraticunderground, Dailykos, Huffingtonpost, as well as Moveon.org, and  Josh Marshall and the lefty's on the radio, we have a coalition all to simliar to the extreme right wing one that brought Mr. Bush to power some eight years back.
    These activists have done nothing but antagonize anyone who does not fully support Mr. Obama.
    I am not looking forward to my choices in the fall if it is Obama v. McCain.
    To McCain's defense, he does not tow the party line and the right wing is NOT banging the McCain drum the way they did the Bush drum and the left the Obama drum.

    Of course, we all love talkleft.com!
    A much more reasonable group posts there!

    They are irrelevant now (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:08:31 AM EST
    Obama certainly will not pay any attention to them.

    Parent
    Dare I say AA's are irrelevant now too (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by davnee on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:27 AM EST
    He'll not waste one iota of future energy on appealing to the interests of the netroot lefties or blacks.  In fact, I expect he'll stiff arm them at every future turn.  The only question is will Obama skew white latte or white populist now in his message?  Will he go modified libertarian with a hopium veneer of concern trolling on Tibetan monks, global warming, Iraq, and the like?  Or will he coopt HRC's populist message and embrace some FDR-style bread and butter solutions to the economic crisis?  He has certainly shown no interest in the latter.  I guess it all depends on whether his team really buys their own spin that the white working class is both unneeded and unwelcome in their coalition.  My guess is that anyone earning upwards of $80,000/year who has moderate to liberal social views, thinks Europe is a paragon of sociopolitical virtue, and keeps busy by buying their favored brands of consumer goods and cruising blogs will be happy under Obama.  At least for a while.  Not so much anyone else.  

    Parent
    I am amazed... (4.33 / 3) (#115)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:39:19 AM EST
    ...that these comments are tolerated on this site.  

     Attempts to paint Senator Clinton as a champion of the working class, while decrying Senator Obama's supporters as "faux Americana" are dishonest and insulting.  I don't need to be lectured about how an upper class, Yale-educated senator from New York and former First Lady is the only populist in the running.  And I harbor no ill will; she is an accomplished woman and politician.  Senator Obama went to elite universities as well, and has a lot of money as well.   Senator Edwards, the candidate who was really running on a populist platform, is out of the running.  You can vent your frustrations with the outcome of this primary (which isn't even over) without resorting to these kinds of insults.

    Parent

    I am amazed (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Kathy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:56:08 AM EST
    that you are still here.  I mean--why?  What are you hoping to accomplish?  We "get" that you think we are all wrong and deluded.  We "get" that you think Obama is the presumptive nominee.  All of your points have been made.  Now will you please stop this petty, childish gloating and go away?

    And if you won't go away, why not?  What else could you possibly add to any of this discourse?  Why do you continue to lecture and denigrate us?  What kind of person are you that you can do this?

    Parent

    Funny you should say that (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:09:10 AM EST
    Here's BDTs comment to Alec last night....

    [new] You are suspended (none / 0) (#166)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 06, 2008 at 11:33:02 PM EST

    You clearly do not know how to behave on a night like this.
    Come back tomorrow.

    I'm saying it again.... Obama supporters have a lot of anger.  They are another large factor of why Obama will lose the GE.

    Parent

    And yet... (none / 0) (#133)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:12:28 AM EST
    ...could not refer to what comments were problematic.  He stated that I "clearly" did not know how to "behave" on a "night like this."  I was responding to (baseless) accusations of voter fraud in IN.  

    Parent
    Dead on right (none / 0) (#185)
    by Marvin42 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:04:46 PM EST
    I wonder where it will turn now, this anger. McCain can't be enough, I wonder if we will now see factions in Obama support to see which is more "pure." This could be fun!


    Parent
    Now see... (none / 0) (#205)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:07:22 PM EST
    ...this is exactly what I am talking about.

     I don't think all Clinton supporters are wrong-headed and deluded; I live with someone who supported her campaign.  He sure as hell isn't as vicious as what I read in the comments section here.  

     And remember...this site is TalkLeft: The Politics of Crime.  I crossover into the discussions of the drug war, and I post at law blogs on a regular basis.  And I've done so for years.      

     What do I add? A gentle reminder that Senator Obama is not demonic, his supporters should not be casually dismissed and the Clinton mythos is full of holes every bit as large as Obamamania.  

     

    Parent

    What insult? (none / 0) (#128)
    by davnee on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:02:07 AM EST
    I didn't insult netroots or AA's.  I insulted the proposition that Obama will in any way cater to their interests.  He won't.  He doesn't have to work for their vote, so he'll expend his resources elsewhere.  Do you honestly think he's going to run as the champion of MoveOn's agenda or as the black candidate?  He hasn't catered to them so far, and now that those voters lips are firmly planted on his butt, he has no reason to start.  Look at what happened to women in this cycle.  We've been so terrorized by Roe that we've been reliably voting for any dog that runs as a Dem for years.  So no leverage for us.

    And I never said Clinton was a genuine populist either.  (Though you completely misunderstand what makes someone a populist.)  She just knows enough to value the working class vote and attempt to respectfully work to earn it.  She's found a way to connect and she's promised an agenda to honor that connection. That's good politics, even if it's old politics. Your upper class Harvard-educated Senator could learn a thing or two about that.

    Parent

    This comment: (none / 0) (#135)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:14:28 AM EST
    "My guess is that anyone earning upwards of $80,000/year who has moderate to liberal social views, thinks Europe is a paragon of sociopolitical virtue, and keeps busy by buying their favored brands of consumer goods and cruising blogs will be happy under Obama.  At least for a while.  Not so much anyone else."

     Come on.  

     

    Parent

    Come on, indeed! (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by dws3665 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:33:51 AM EST
    I am three out of four of those things, yet I prefer HRC.

    Parent
    What benefits does Obama offer the working class? (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by davnee on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:39:14 AM EST
    Fill me in.  Is he going to guarantee them health care?  Is he going to rein in the oil companies?  Is he going to regulate Wall Street?  Is he going to protect social security?  Is he going to create blue collar jobs?  Is he going to reform education?  I've yet to hear anything concrete from him that suggests a yes answer to any of these questions.  And what little I have heard from him suggests the answer might even be a flat out no to some.

    Parent
    By the way (5.00 / 3) (#157)
    by davnee on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:53:12 AM EST
    I expect to do just fine under an Obama admin.  I've got economic security.  I'm a little freaked out about his foreign policy prospects.  No way of knowing how he might compound the damage Bush has done.  Can't possibly predict it given his inexperience, his naive statements, and his odd stable of advisors.  And heaven only knows what his social justice platform will be.  I expect not much.  He'll be too busy placating all viewpoints and therefore validating nothing.  And I definitely loathe the prospect of watching him devolve into Carter the sequel.  Especially watching the whining from his disillusioned young supporters.  Oh yeah, and I will cop to the fact that Europhiles annoy me.  But economically, I expect to continue to thrive enough to pay for my iphone, keep my satellite tv and internet access, eat out whenever I want, maintain my health insurance, and keep my home.  Not sure about how many other people can say the same, but any one of these candidates will have only a marginal effect on my personal and economic situation.  My support for HRC is all about the belief that a rising tide lifts all boats.  I'd like to see that for everyone, and I think she's the only candidate left in this race that has even a shot at creating that kind of rising tide.

    Parent
    He has plans... (none / 0) (#155)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:52:18 AM EST
    ...to make health care affordable, provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of American employees relative to foreign employees, expansion of the FMLA, etc.  

     I just have a hard time believing that a senator who missed the bankruptcy "reform" vote (Obama voted nay, btw) can claim to be the voice of the working class.

    Parent

    Alec (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:02:04 PM EST
    his health care proposal will kill us in CA.  His tax plan will kill NY and CA dual-income families.  He's raising the rates above 100,000.  He's talking about privatizing SS.  That will absolutely kill older Americans headed into retirement.  His energy record is horrible.

    It's a disaster.

    I'm not sure his platform has anything that even makes much sense.

    I suppose bringing home some troops will help.

    Parent

    I Find It Hard To Believe That A Senator Who Voted (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    against setting a cap on the interest an amendment that would have placed a 30 percent cap on the interest rate that could be charged on credit cards and other consumer debt (Clinton voted Yea BTW) is real voice of the working class.

    As a highly educated, high information Obama supporter I'm sure that you know that the bankruptcy bill was voted on the same day that Bill Clinton underwent heart surgery. So I guess you are just spreading misinformation to discredit Senator Clinton.

    Parent

    No, I didn't know that... (none / 0) (#197)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:30:36 PM EST
    ...although as a highly educated and informed Clinton supporter, I am sure you know that he voted against the amendment because he thought it didn't go far enough (hard to argue with, since most interest rates are well under 30%), and that Senator Clinton voted for a virtually identical bankruptcy reform bill in 2001?  Or is it just another smear?

    Parent
    I believe the bankruptcy (none / 0) (#212)
    by seeker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:51:13 PM EST
    vote happened on the day Bill had his first heart surgery.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#195)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:27:50 PM EST
    and that he thinks he should keep his policy plans, and changes a secret is not going to get him into the Whitehouse.

    If he gets to the GE, people will notice the disappearance of substance from the campaign.

    Parent

    stop judging people on where they are from (none / 0) (#182)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:48:36 PM EST
    I don't need to be lectured about how an upper class, Yale-educated senator from New York and former First Lady is the only populist in the running.

    Apparently you don't get that it isn't about where you're from...it's about what you believe and especially what you do.

    Obama is an enemy to the working class. His policies throw us overboard to pursue a little more wealth for his own kind at our expense. He won't represent us. All he can do for us is mock and ridicule us...which he has already done.

    Sorry but Obama is a snob, and the working class is going to vote for McCain in such huge numbers it's going to make heads spin. But Donna Brazile knows this - and thinks it's okay, because she's forming a "new coalition" and we're not part of it.

    You can't throw us out of the party and at the same time pretend to be our friend. Doesn't work.

    Parent

    Please... (none / 0) (#198)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:33:33 PM EST
    ...she voted for bankruptcy reform in 2001 (allegedly because of problems facing "small" credit unions, notably after receiving generous senate donations from creditors).  She's no friend of the working class.  The only reason she was able to run a populist campaign was because Edwards was out of the loop.  


    Parent
    so? (none / 0) (#219)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:03:54 PM EST
    ...she voted for bankruptcy reform in 2001 (allegedly because of problems facing "small" credit unions, notably after receiving generous senate donations from creditors).  She's no friend of the working class.  The only reason she was able to run a populist campaign was because Edwards was out of the loop.  

    She's a pragmatist. I don't mind that about her.  

    To me the key is, quite simply, she is the sort of politician who derives her power from the voters. The deal is quite simple: we vote for her, she gives us stuff, we vote for her some more, around and around.

    Obama thinks it's pandering to actually give anyone anything.

    Ultimately it comes down to hoping that Hillary will be exactly like Bill Clinton was. He wasn't perfect - I know there is howling from people who treat politics as a game of chess, instead of something that actually affects peoples' lives. But in the real world, Bill Clinton made life noticeably and appreciably better for those who lived in the US. Especially so for the working class. I believe Hillary will basically stop the downward slide economically and she will fix the world problem. I don't ask her to provide a world where injustice no longer exists.

    Parent

    african americans delivered florida (none / 0) (#146)
    by sancho on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:41:37 AM EST
    to gore in 2000. except their ballots were invalidated. we still have not fixed that problem. the republicans have written off the af-am vote since 1964. let's see, what's their record in presidential elections since then?

    Parent
    They're not irrelevant to this C list blogger (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:19:42 PM EST
    Destroying the media critique for a taste of the Kool-Aid pissed about 5 years of work down the tubes.  By their fruits shall we know them, and a corrupt discourse is never the sign of someone who has a concern for justice when in power.

    We can start over, with a lot more experience, but it's wrenching.

    I never thought that the day would come when a doctored video would make it onto the A list and go viral without a transcript to check or its provenance posted. Move along, people, move along, there's no story here!

    Parent

    Espec. after all the flap about (none / 0) (#193)
    by oculus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:14:26 PM EST
    Bush's docs. and Rather.  Doesn't stack up.

    Parent
    One way he can unify the party (none / 0) (#40)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:11:00 AM EST
    Is to do them what he did to Rev. Wright.

    Of course he won't do that.  I was just saying it was a way he could if he wanted.


    Parent

    They were always irrelevant... (none / 0) (#61)
    by Addison on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:16:46 AM EST
    ...getting nothing but clear panders from both candidates, and providing nothing to Obama or Clinton except for some petty fundraising cash. In fact, the big blog push for Obama mirrored Clinton's now-concluded resurgence in the nomination contest.

    Parent
    Moore isn't really an extremist (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:12:39 AM EST
    he's provocative.  And clownish.

    i think he's likely to be shunned now.

    Parent

    Dismissing (none / 0) (#199)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:35:44 PM EST
    the strength of the Clinton supporters beliefs and expectations has been sport this election season. I don't think the media fully understands the reason, or the depth of the support those 50% who have said they will not vote Obama have for why they won't rejoin the party in November.

    Parent
    It reminds me - (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by liminal on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:29:03 AM EST
    - of some of the criticims of the Labour Party I heard on BBC World News recently, from working class Brits.  Essentially, they were complaining that Labour wasn't much involved with Labour, anymore.  The party built a new centrist coalition that gave short shrift to the needs and concerns and hopes and dreams of the British working class, so it was Labour in name only.  

    Parent
    This is incorrect (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:31:33 AM EST
    McCain's defense, he does not tow the party line

    100 years in Iraq, Justices just like Roberts, Scalia, Tax cuts uber alles. Where's the daylight?

    Parent

    McCain DOES tow the party line (none / 0) (#122)
    by lilybart on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:48:11 AM EST
    The AZ Republic newspaper this morning has an article about McCain's votes and how they rarely stray from party goals. He only talks like a "maverick"

    Parent
    wow, that's a lof of nuts (none / 0) (#124)
    by lilybart on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:50:31 AM EST
    you listed, maybe millions of far-left nuts!!  

    kos was in the military
    Josh Marshall is a respected award-winning journalist.

    I know people are disappointed here but don't go smearing every other dem unfairly

    Parent

    lilybart (none / 0) (#126)
    by Kathy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:57:34 AM EST
    what are you doing here?  what points are you making?  What are you adding to the conversation?

    Parent
    lilybart Is Just Here To Distribute Unity Ponies (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:26:45 PM EST
    Don't you just feel all warm and fuzzy about Obama after all her great efforts?

    Parent
    Is there a disclaimer I missed (none / 0) (#196)
    by lilybart on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:29:46 PM EST
    Is there a banner at the top that say:

    To Talk Left Readers: Please do not read any threads that have to do with the DEM primary unless you are a Hillary supporter.

    Is there? If not, I think I am allowed to let someone know that Obama's supporters are not all far-left nuts and the bloggers she smeared are not nuts either.

    Parent

    Are you AX10 (none / 0) (#200)
    by lilybart on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:37:18 PM EST
    IF not, I wasn't addressing you.

    Parent
    I learned from my brief brush with political (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by Joelarama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:06:22 AM EST
    strategists that say what they mean, and then deny any negative implications by denying what they just said.

    Ms. Brazile's words are textbook.  When she says "not throw the baby out with the bathwater" she means her "new coalition" does not need Latinos and white, blue collar workers.

    This is some coalition that Obama's primary supporters are building.  His primary supporters have been so caught up in denigrating the accomplishments and legacy of the 90s that they have deluded themselves into believing they do not need the Clinton coalition.

    I'll vote for Obama if he is the nominee.  I heard him ask for my vote last night -- which is more than Donna Brazile and his shrilly-silly supporters in the left blogosphere have done.

     

    He is not getting my vote... (5.00 / 7) (#74)
    by ineedalife on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:22:37 AM EST
    until he is down 20 points to McCain and he comes begging for it.

    Then after he publicly apologizes for depicting the Clintons as racists and admits to the AA community that he hoodwinked and bamboozled them, I may reconsider.

    Parent

    amen! (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:53:14 PM EST
    Then after he publicly apologizes for depicting the Clintons as racists and admits to the AA community that he hoodwinked and bamboozled them, I may reconsider.

    I think I might enjoy seeing that.

    Parent

    He didn't ask for your vote at all (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:22:38 PM EST
    The rhetoric is meaningless. It's the Unity Pony all over again.

    The way to ask for your vote is with policy.

    The way to ask for my vote would be to fix the broken universal health care plan, and send some surrogate out to grovel for the Harry & Louise ads.

    That would help. Of course, the OFB would promptly proceed to piss all that away with more "dry pussy" postings or false charges of racism, but there's no reason that Obama should try to do the right thing.

    Parent

    should try ->shouldn't try n/t (none / 0) (#171)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:25:19 PM EST
    Here's another of her metaphors (4.88 / 9) (#47)
    by Cream City on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:13:32 AM EST
    for the hopey-changey churchy folks -- a great big  choir loft for Obama, as Brazile said in Time magazine: "Obama must create a new movement and he must create a whole new choir and in his new choir he's the conductor and they are inspired by hope."

    Ugh.  This from the woman who can't sing harmony.

    Parent

    Mashed potatoes and gravy (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by ruffian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:22:59 AM EST
    Did you hear that one?  She needs to just get off my TV with her smarmy pseudo-folksie cooking analogies before I vow to never vote Dem again in my life.

    Parent
    You know why all the cooking references? (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by Emma on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:38:41 AM EST
    She's shilling her book from 2004:  "Cooking with Grease:  Stirring the Pots in American Politics."  Have you ever heard of it?  Me neither.  But, for the first time evah, it showed up in Brazile's writer bio at Ms. Magazine.

    Parent
    I saw ir in a remainder bin. True story. nt (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Joelarama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:09:55 AM EST
    I remember it actually getting an excellent (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:22:43 AM EST
    review somewhere.

    Parent
    I also remember a few good reviews of (none / 0) (#141)
    by Joelarama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:28:52 AM EST
    Trent Lott's "Herding Cats" (I might be getting that title wrong).  

    Parent
    That's the title (none / 0) (#143)
    by andgarden on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:35:13 AM EST
    Truth told, Lott has always struck me as a fascinating character. You always know exactly who and what he is: a Dixiecrat caught in a time warp. Ever seen a picture of him in a seersucker?

    Parent
    I grew up in his neck of the woods. nt (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Joelarama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:49:10 AM EST
    That is creepy. I can think of no other (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Joelarama on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:51 AM EST
    word for it.

    This "new coalition" stuff reminds me of "Old Europe" and "New Europe," that kind of grandiose, bellicose, empty self-justification.  

    Parent

    Movement... Change... (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:23:35 PM EST
    Why am I thinking diapers?

    [rimshot. laughter]

    Parent

    Donna Brazile's best attempts to unify (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:06:40 AM EST
    Her party is just to make sure nobody else will ever be able to call it their party.

    I completely agree. (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by lilburro on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    She sounds as though she is enunciating her own version of the Southern Strategy:  let the Repubs take blue collars and Hispanics.  We'll concentrate on something else.  Yet these people have the nerve to claim these groups should vote for Dems because it's in their economic self-interest.  

    How is the Democratic Party, the party for the people, not the businesses, going to stand for the people if it shoos them away like this?  How can you argue for helping the working class when you "don't need them" in your coalition?  Brazile's talk is very destructive to the Democratic brand.

    We should be moving to embrace the working class of all races and fighting to get the working class into the Obama coalition, regardless of race.  Pushing away the white working class and keeping the black working class just reinforces the notion this is about race.

    Brazile is a disgrace.

    As a blue collar Hispanic, (5.00 / 8) (#106)
    by mulletov cocktails on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:33:13 AM EST
    I completly agree.  This may be one of the most asinine ideas I've heard in a while.  The disconnect between the "creative class" of the party and those of us with calluses on our hands is as baffling as it is disheartening.

    Though I know a vote for anything other than Dem. nominee is a vote for Mcsame, I cannot justify voting for Obama (TX isn't in play in the GE just yet).  I'm at the point now where I just can't watch the Democratic Party self destruct again and again.

    Parent

    writing off hispanics (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by sancho on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:43:00 AM EST
    would insure the destruction of the party.

    Parent
    Brazile is a moron (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by cawaltz on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:33:18 AM EST
    People like my husband(white southern working class male in VIRGINIA) will take her at her word and vote McCain. He ned very little incntive sice he already believes hat the Democratic party is full of "nutless wonders who have failed to fight for average Americans time and time again."

    Parent
    exactly (none / 0) (#192)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:13:57 PM EST
    who have failed to fight for average Americans time and time again.

    To me that's what is at stake.

    Obama has indicated that a vote for him = a vote for the "new coalition", the one where ordinary Americans don't matter to the so-called Democratic party.

    And don't think AAs will be any different....they might love him, but he doesn't truly love them.

    McCain is going to win either way - Obama isn't going to win the WH; people are not going to trust him. His own behavior has already guaranteed his defeat. But if he goes down hard enough, it might kill this "new coalition" and destroy all those politicians who quite frankly need to be purged from the Democratic party. Their influence and power will be dead and politicians will be forced to recognize these groups the Democratic party has always taken for granted.

    I guess you could say it's between the two wings of the Democratic party now. If you're okay with the elites marginalizing your power and making it policy to assume you'll vote for them no matter how they treat you, because you would never vote for McCain no matter how badly the Democrats abuse you, then just stick with party unity and vote for O. But to me, party unity does not come from one side battering the other. I think the abused spouse is absolutely apt ... unity comes from putting the abuser's power back into line, not by feeding that power and pretending abuse is ok.

    Parent

    It's not like Obama isn't (none / 0) (#85)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:25:27 AM EST
    going to depend on Hispanics for his southwestern strategy.

    They are not old anything given the map Obama intends to run on.

    Parent

    Anyone have video of the first Brazille remark? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by jawbone on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:07:28 AM EST
    CNN transcript has the word "just" before blue collar voters and Hispanics, which is somewhat mitigating.

    However, commenters said they did not hear the word "just."  It's possible it wasn't easily audible -- or it's possible CNN cleaned up her remarks.

    Video of the first remark would be helpful, if audio really good.

    I did not hear just, but (none / 0) (#35)
    by bjorn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:10:07 AM EST
    I guess she could have said it.  Her tone was so condescending and snotty that even if she said "just" it was still an undignified and passive-aggressive.

    Parent
    Someone said someone did have this on TIVO (none / 0) (#39)
    by jawbone on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:10:57 AM EST
    But, no name for the TIVO-er.

    Parent
    I had tivo'd it, (none / 0) (#81)
    by Iphie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:58 AM EST
    but I didn't save it -- I'm not prepared technologically to take tivo'd material and successfully get it online -- sorry!

    Parent
    Looks to me like the Dem Party agrees with Donna (5.00 / 6) (#33)
    by rockinrocknroll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:09:54 AM EST
    And by that I mean the Party proper (not us Dem voters, who of course have little to no say now over what the elders want).

    Frankly I'd rather know the truth of what they're doing - purging the white working class and Hispanics - right now than to find out further down the road that we had already been dumped on our butts without us even realizing it'd happened. Basically, if I'm going to be fired, I want to know so that I can quit and find someone who does value the work I do.

    the leaders have decided to go for (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by sancho on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:45:38 AM EST
    a "noble" loss.

    then they are not responsible for governing and can contionue to blame the repubs for everything.

    i'm not sure the worst revenge hillary voters could get on the dnc would be to vote for obama to win in november.

    then we'd see how "democratic" everybody really was.

    Parent

    One of the remarkable things (5.00 / 10) (#38)
    by frankly0 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:10:36 AM EST
    that Brazile said, when confronted by Campbell Brown on her obvious bias, was that she was "undeclared" but not "undecided".

    What is this but an absolutely clear admission that she knows perfectly well whom she really supports, but is not going to own up to it?

    Could there be a better reason to strip her of her pretense to being anything resembling an impartial observer, as she does whenever she speaks as an "analyst"?

    The sheer dishonesty of her making that pretense, and of CNN's indulging it, is pretty breathtaking.

    She should never have been (5.00 / 10) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:14:27 AM EST
    allowed to comment on the contest period.

    Her role in the MI/FL fiasco was reason enough for her to be disqualified.

    Parent

    Pelosi and Donna (5.00 / 4) (#161)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:04:33 PM EST
    both absolutely abused their positions in the DNC, feigning neutrality while giving out absolutely biased information to the public.

    Both are disagrace.

    Parent

    She's not sending us a message? (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:27:56 PM EST
    Because it seems like everything else is like that, seriously.

    1. Obama endorsements by Party elders

    2. Brazile disendorsements of party constituencies

    Both talking to the money people.

    Looks more like a good cop, bad cop strategy to me.

    Parent

    Good for Hillary Rodham Clinton (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by hitchhiker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:13:38 AM EST
    I would expect nothing less from her.

    I read Ms. Brazile's comments to say that she's confident the "old coalition" will still be in place when the "new coalition" moves in.

    If she wants that to be the case, she ought to listen to her own remarks and ask herself why all those older white women are going to stick around . . . to be told they're racist?  To be told that no matter how qualified or competent or strong a woman is, she's never going to be in the same ball game as a man?  To be relentlessly and publicly mocked by the very members of the "new coalition" for style of dress, tone of voice, quality of laughter?

    I know what the McCain campaign is doing this morning.  They're asking themselves how they appeal to all those voters Ms. Brazile is assuming belong to her candidate.  Let's hope her candidate is making a similar analysis.

    Bring it on, please.  I'm ready to be convinced.

    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:17:11 PM EST
    the only people who have ever called me a racist were on the site that shall remain unnamed, and I tolerated it because I wanted there to be a voice for Hillary.  After the PA win, I came here.  I no longer need to be verbally abused on behalf of my candidate.  

    I still do not believe the issue for Obama is our feelings.  The issue is that he won't carry older Dems for good reason.  He's not strong on national security, he's not perceived as experienced, and he's talked about privatization of SS.  

    I don't believe a lot of Jewish Dems will trust him.  I don't believe a lot of Latinos will trust him.  And this will continue to flummox the pollsters, because they'll say they trust him while not voting for him.  That, as I've said, is too intangible of a characteristic to poll directly.  Trust him to make the choice that is high on their agenda?  No.  Trust him to be more forthright?  Maybe.  I don't think he'll win over white working class people because of his elitist attitudes.  They just don't like the guy.  

    A certain percentage of women will probably be mad enough to not vote for him, but most will.  Women are the true backbone of the Democrats and our focus was always on social causes as well as other issues.  I doubt that will change.

    My biggest concern, truly, is that the election was a back-room deal all along.  I don't know how I can justify supporting the party that does that, particularly when financially it's smarter for me to be a Republican.  I just can't see it.

    So I'm one of the odd-balls whose going to not "fit" anywhere.  Too liberal for this kind of dirty politics and shunning tactics of the Clintons.  That offended me from day 1.  Too liberal for McCain, unless something miraculous happens.  

    Honestly, on a personal level, I'm not quite sure what to do.

    Parent

    Not sure what to do? (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:28:58 PM EST
    Form a Woman's Party!

    Ha ha, only serious.

    Parent

    I'm in. (none / 0) (#184)
    by hitchhiker on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:59:31 PM EST
    Let's imagine a new political party formed specifically to represent the voices of women.  I'd work my ass off for that party.

    Parent
    sure! (none / 0) (#201)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:37:47 PM EST
    I'm in!

    Parent
    Obama Will Have To Win Me Over (5.00 / 8) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:13:55 AM EST
    As much as I respect Hillary, she could sing Obama's praises nonstop and not make a difference.

    Obama has taken positions and actions that have made me extremely reluctant to vote for him. He has from now until November to change my mind. His words and his actions during that time will be the deciding factor. Right now he has a large hill to climb.

    I agree (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by hookfan on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:55:54 AM EST
    I'm beginning to think it would be better for the white working class and older women to abandon the democratic party, become independant, and wait to see which party will do what for us to earn our vote. Loyalty is a two way street. If not, it just perpetuates an abusive relationship. We have a lot of influence if we withold our money and votes until someone earns them. I can starve and freeze and die without health care on my own without adding abuse to the mix.

    Parent
    Preliminary delegate "guesstimates" (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by wurman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:14:30 AM EST
    From Green Papers:
    NC total   Obama  Clinton (-17)
    115         66        49

    IN total    O      C           (+6)
    72          33     39

    Sen. Obama ends up with a net gain of 11 delegates.

    Insignificant.

    she was factually wrong here. (5.00 / 4) (#56)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:14:40 AM EST
    The traditional coaltion of FDR dems would include a good percentage of blacks, Jews and working class whites.

    Latino's are if anything a very new thing for the dems to digest.

    She's not entitled to her own facts.

    More of the same (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by sarahfdavis on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:16:20 AM EST
    From Obama supporters. Keep it up. You don't need us.

    Kinda (5.00 / 12) (#62)
    by kenoshaMarge on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:17:00 AM EST
    hard to see how the party unifies with party spokespeople like Donna Brazile spouting off about the "old coalition". I guess that would be me.

    Low class, don't have enough money to be middle-class, under-educated, because we were so low class that my parents could only afford to send one of us to college and that was my brother. (Actually no misogyny there, he was so brilliant it would have made no sense to send me when I was "merely" bright. And yes, I resented it anyway.)

    I then spent 40 years as a mother, a wife, an ex-wife, while holding down a job as a Secretary-Receptionist, which is of course not part of the "creative class".

    I believe that Brazile means what she says and I think that a small, very vocal, powerful and elitist percentage of the Democratic Party agrees with her.

    I don't think she meant to say what she did out loud and Begala was clearly appalled, but I think what slipped out was exactly how she and many like her thinks and feels.

    "The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," --Bill Clinton


    The paranoid scenario... (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:35:02 PM EST
    Think of it all as a hostile takeover.

    1. OFB are noisy shareholders generating buzz

    2. Investment bankers (the funders) fund a hostile takeover of the Dem Party.

    3. Loss-making divisions -- working people, the poor, the old, anyone who needs government to work -- are downsized or cut loose

    4. Assets -- remaining reputation of Dem Party -- are stripped to repay the investment bankers (coal, nuclear)

    5. In 2016, the shell of the Party is sold to a bigger fool.

    6. Everybody involved gets good jobs in the Village and sleeps the sleep of the righteous!


    Parent
    wow... (none / 0) (#203)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:54:17 PM EST
    Think of it all as a hostile takeover.

    ...that's a really good analogy

    Parent

    Donna Brazille (5.00 / 10) (#63)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:17:18 AM EST
    is a bully.  Has everyone lost the art of diplomacy?  When the party allows a member of the rules committee to represent the party for pay, on CNN as a pundit, then this pundit basically, tells 50% of the party to go to H*ll, then the party is in disarray.   There is no leadership and they will lose the election.  If they win it will not be a Democratic win, it will be that the Republicans are bigger morons.  

    Yes (none / 0) (#68)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:20:56 AM EST
    Has everyone lost the art of diplomacy?


    Parent
    The one who says (none / 0) (#92)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:28:50 AM EST
    the big states don't matter.  

    Parent
    Good... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by kredwyn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:17:26 AM EST
    Indiana was touted as the "great and glorious tie breaker."

    NC woulda been good for her, but I expected it to go for him.

    There's no reason for her to drop out or be "shooed off the stage"...Donna can bite me.

    it was a Rumsfeldian construct (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:21:26 AM EST
    Old party--whites, Hispanics

    New party--urban, young and educated.

    Silly dichotomy given Ohio, Penn and Missouri.

    never mind that Hispanics are the singular emerging minorty in the US.

    Yes, it was an amazing (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by AnninCA on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:52:10 AM EST
    attitude she expressed.

    The key emerging minority group in the country got flicked off like a piece of unwanted lint.

    Parent

    Once again imagine if (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by Stellaaa on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:22:15 AM EST
    a Clinton supporter said:  
    Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Donna. But, Donna, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is older. It is more rural, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on younger urban voters and African Americans. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.


    I think people like this (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:28:55 AM EST
    want Obama to lose so they can point and whine about how mean and awful the world is.

    You know, it was a good thing for us (5.00 / 8) (#110)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:35:11 AM EST
    Yes, maybe it was not a good thing for the Democratic Party or for the DNC, but Donna spouting off like that showed us what will be hidden if and when they are looking for our vote. For me, I had already decided what to do if it came to this, but if there was any doubt, she nailed the coffin. And believe me, when all smiles and smooth talking tries to say he loves me too and he wants to embrace, I am not going to believe a word he says.  And as much as it seems outrageous that we would not follow like lemmings, maybe a loss can be a good thing. It draws a line in the sand that says you need us too. We are not the old party afterall.

    what does loyalty mean? to you? to them? (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:57:29 PM EST
    as much as it seems outrageous that we would not follow like lemmings, maybe a loss can be a good thing. It draws a line in the sand that says you need us too. We are not the old party afterall.

    I really agree with this.

    I feel that just doing as we're told, after the smackdown we've been given, is akin to justifying a wife-beater to save the marraige. Sometimes marriages shouldn't be saved - one or the other should just get lost.

    It's like giving them a blank check to ignore us and mistreat us for ever more. Not a wise choice.

    Parent

    Don't you think that analogy... (none / 0) (#206)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:10:16 PM EST
    ...is a wee bit excessive? Just a wee bit?

     In fact, given the GOP policies and the stakes in this election, a more appropriate analogy is fleeing a mugger to run into the arms of a notorious serial killer.  

    Parent

    no, not excessive at all (none / 0) (#217)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:59:01 PM EST
    ...is a wee bit excessive? Just a wee bit?

     In fact, given the GOP policies and the stakes in this election, a more appropriate analogy is fleeing a mugger to run into the arms of a notorious serial killer.  

    Who knows what Obama is? But he serves the same master McCain does, so what difference does it make.

    There is only one candidate who is seriously threatening the status quo. You can tell which one it is by how loud "the establishment" is howling to get her disqualified from the race.

    Parent

    No make-up sex? (none / 0) (#180)
    by lambert on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:38:18 PM EST
    Awwwww.....

    Parent
    LOL-But (none / 0) (#208)
    by BarnBabe on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:12:42 PM EST
    not when you know what they are really thinking about you. Donna made that pretty clear last night.

    Parent
    I am not an Obama supporter per se (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:08:51 AM EST
    If he is the nominee, then he has my support. If Hillary were to be the nominee, she would have my unqualified support.

    You assume, because I reject and renounce Nader like statements,  I am an Obama supporter. You are incorrect. I also have rejected and renounced divisive statements from Obama supporters on MyDD and Kos (though I conceded its hard for me to read comments on Kos anymore and I don't venture to the comments much).

    Why you would impute an asinine comment by some  unnamed idiot on DU to Obama is curious and short sighted. I think you would do well to read JM's latest post re: McCain and Scotus and the war.

    As for

    Bush's fundie supporters, and Obama's worshippers.
    I recommend you get a mirror.

    i'm curious to know how (5.00 / 4) (#134)
    by cpinva on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:12:48 AM EST
    the democratic party "elders" got to be the "elders"? these are the same people who couldn't manage to defeat the intellectual black hole known as g. bush. not once, but twice!

    i still have all of my various appendages crossed, in hopes that sen. clinton can somehow manage to pull off a miracle. otherwise, be prepared to watch the inauguration of pres. mccain next jan.

    It is almost certain that Obama will be the nominee. He needs to unify the Party.  

    well BTD, he's not demonstrated any particularly impressive leadership skills thus far, by what stretch of your imagination do you think he would suddenly start now?

    believe it or not, i didn't vote for him not because he's a black man, or because i didn't like him (heck, i'd never even really heard of him before last year!), but because i am 100% certain he's not ready for the most important job in the world, by a long stretch.

    during the course of the primary season, he's done nothing to change my initial view. if anything, i'm less convinced now than i was at the beginning; the man hasn't presented an original thought during the entire campaign!

    i had believed that, given additional experience, he could be a great future contender for the party. no longer, as he will lose, badly, in nov. that's unfortunate.

    i fully understand and appreciate the groundswell of support he's received from the AA community, as kennedy did from the irish-catholic crowd; voting for one of your own is a time honored tradition in this country, nothing wrong with that at all.

    however, kennedy was able to appeal to a broader base of support (and at that, the '60 election was a close run thing.), sen. obama has failed to duplicate that, just in the primaries. why would anyone think he'll accomplish it in the GE?

    add the right-wingnut 527's (who didn't exist in the '60 election), and sen. obama will not have a chance in the fall. anyone who discounts the effect those 527's will have is deluding themselves.

    i wish it weren't so.

    If Obama Is Elected (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by BDB on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:46:40 AM EST
    There's a good chance Donna Brazile will be the Chair of the DNC. Heck, winning the nomination may be enough to get her that.

    That's why I'm feeling so out of sorts this morning. It isn't Obama, it's the gang he rides with.  If they're the new Democratic party, then I'm not sure I want to be a member of it.

    Demographically... (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by OrangeFur on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:15:05 PM EST
    ... I think I can get into Brazile's New Coalition.

    But you know what? Your invitation is declined. No country club for me. The YMCA is just fine.

    What should Hillary do? (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by blondlara on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:10:46 PM EST
     I am sure I am not the only Democrat and woman who feels like I was punched in the stomach last night. I am so proud of Senator Clinton on so many levels and I am so angry at the people who are pushing Obama; the man with no credentials. Right now I am so angry I am pulling my name off every website from  Democrat groups looking for money. I also WILL NOT vote for Obama or McCain. I am angry and fed up.PERIOD

    Brazile in the same tent with me (4.63 / 11) (#5)
    by Cream City on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:01:56 AM EST
    is hard to imagine.  I reject and denounce her.  Other Dem party leaders must reject and denounce what she said last night, too.  But they won't.  

    And we know where that will lead the party.  And the country.  President McCain ought to appoint her to a post in his administration out of sheer gratitude -- but who would want her, with her 'tude, in any party?

    you have heard of the "big" tent? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:03:08 AM EST
    Yes, but I reject that metaphor, too. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Cream City on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:11:32 AM EST
    As I wrote the other night, the Dem party is more of a campground of lots of tents.  Some are pup tents, some are sizeable enough for a three-ring circus.

    Me, I think I prefer to just sleep under the stars.

    Parent

    Video (none / 0) (#2)
    by Saul on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:00:46 AM EST
    Do you have a video link on the Begala /Brazlie episode?  I missed it.

    There you go (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by hopeyfix on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:13:40 AM EST
    Get your gag bag ready.

    LINK

    Parent

    Some of it is on huff po (none / 0) (#59)
    by Faust on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:16:32 AM EST
    I think.

    Parent
    It's up to both Clinton and Obama (none / 0) (#4)
    by magster on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:01:40 AM EST
    to unify the party.

    Attempts at making Obama seen as unelectable are inexcusable at this point.

    That was never that much of a concern to me (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:03:52 AM EST
    Actually.

    His Un-ability to provide competent government was.

    Your party has decided to roll the dice.

    Parent

    Obama is unelectable (5.00 / 13) (#12)
    by tnjen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:04:46 AM EST
    and Clinton can't restore what she didn't break. Obama will never have my vote because of him not her.

    Parent
    thanks Ralph (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:14:21 AM EST
    Its up to all Democrats to unite the party, winners and losers and partisans of same. Otherwise, why are you a Democrat or a partisan of either candidate?

    Hillary will do her part, without prompting or prodding. She will do so because she is a great Democrat with poise and charisma. I would hope her partisans will take her cue.

    Parent

    When you do not take the concerns of others (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by MMW on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:20:57 AM EST
    seriously, you do your candidate and party no favors. The poster you're taking to task, He/She doesn't have to vote for your candidate. Emotional blackmail - Ralph Nader?

    I used to think being called Republican was the gravest insult, now I feel ashamed to be called a Democrat.

    I'm not voting for Obama.

    Parent

    Then you are no better than Ralph (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:26:17 AM EST
    in my opinion. My candidate is the nominee. I have not wavered from that position. My interest is defeating Bush's 3rd term. I have never forgiven Ralph Nader and never will.

    Neither Hillary nor Obama is perfect. Both would be better than McCain. I have no problem voting for either.

    Hillary clearly isn't ashamed to be a Democrat, why should you be?

    Hillary is a fighter and tough as nails and she doesn't whine. She is an inspirational example for all.

    Parent

    Call me Ralph. (none / 0) (#111)
    by MMW on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:35:12 AM EST
    One thing I will never call you is Hillary (none / 0) (#117)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:41:23 AM EST
    You just caused me to go chasing my eyes (none / 0) (#137)
    by MMW on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:22:54 AM EST
    They rolled right out of my head.

    Boo effing HOO!

    Parent

    Didn't more Dems (none / 0) (#144)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:39:04 AM EST
    vote for Bush in Florida than Nader?  

    I have never understood the blame Nader position.  I thought Nader got 97,000 Democratic votes and Bush got 350,000 Democratic votes.

    Parent

    I hold alleged Democrats who voted (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:05:55 PM EST
    for Bush with even more contempt than Nader voters. That doesn't excuse Nader voters. Their position, that Gore was no different than Bush was intellectually dishonest.

    Parent
    We Should Start A Pool On How Many (none / 0) (#177)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:32:06 PM EST
    Democratic votes McCain will get in FL.

    Parent
    Salivating aren't you? (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:08:48 PM EST
    You have become what you professed to despise- you are the mirror image of Obama supporters at Dkos. Congratulations. But hey! You are better than they, aren't you?

    Parent
    You might just might want to look in the mirror. (none / 0) (#214)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:59:15 PM EST
      You, not I, are employing personal attacks which people at Dkos are so noted for.

    Parent
    I haven't attacked anyone (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:22:45 PM EST
    for supporting Hillary. I think support of your favored candidate is to be applauded.

    I pull no punches for anyone who plans to sit out, because their favored candidate is not the nominee. I will remind them of Ralph Nader. I will remind them of the SCOTUS. I will ask why they cannot measure up to their favored candidate, as both candidates have stated unequivocally they will work for the nominee.

    This election is too important, the stakes too high to sit out and to vote for McCain and pretend that that Obama is no better than McCain or worse to say McCain would be better is ludicrous.

    People are dying in Iraq, Supreme Court decisions have real life consequences, torture is not an American value. To get your undies in a wad, because your favored candidate is not the nominee is selfish, if you profess to believe the ideals that Senator Clinton believes in.

    I have said it before, I will say it again, Senator Clinton is tough as nails, doesn't whine and is a great Democrat. Some of her supporters could learn from her.

    I support the nominee, I will happily vote for Hillary or Obama and I will make no apologies for my position.  

    Parent

    I've missed your pithy, to-the-point (none / 0) (#216)
    by oculus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:45:54 PM EST
    comments.  

    Parent
    I've missed reading you, MT, Squeaky and others (none / 0) (#218)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:01:21 PM EST
    but I have trouble reading the comments without going rabid and I fear I do more harm than good.

    I was here before the primaries, and I will be here after the primaries are over.

    (failure to name other old timers is an oversight not a diss).

    Parent

    I tried to fill in for you the other (none / 0) (#220)
    by oculus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:41:24 PM EST
    day and present a reasoned opinion as to why a vote for McCain would be a poor idea.  Much flack in return.  So, carry on.  

    Parent
    the DNC has gone waaaaaaaaay over the line (none / 0) (#207)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:10:33 PM EST
    Otherwise, why are you a Democrat

    Apparently I'm not a Democrat. There's a new coalition. I think the person who compared it to a country club is right smack bang on the mark.

    Don't ask me to work unpaid labor to support that country club and help build it and make it nice. I won't do it.

    The issues and values that made me a Democrat in the first place matter more to me than the party itself does. When the party strays from those values, I stop being loyal.

    It's not like the Democratic party is earning any loyalty from me, anyway. Every insult against Clinton is an insult against her supporters.

    Parent

    Then why is Hillary still a Democrat? (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:25:24 PM EST
    (and a darned good one at that).

    Parent
    Hello. His primary win is essentially (5.00 / 8) (#13)
    by cosbo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:05:33 AM EST
    the Dukakis Coalition. That's actually not a winning GE strategy. That's if you're actually interested in winning the GE. Most Obama supporters seem to be happy enough with the primary win.

    Parent
    B-b-but the Unity Bounce! (5.00 / 5) (#28)
    by Fabian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:08:25 AM EST
    The Unity Bounce will happen!  It will if we all just clap hard enough!

    Parent
    HE is the ONE (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Arcadianwind on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:33:51 AM EST
    who has turned group against group, faction against faction. He has divided the Democratic Party in a way that would previously have been unimaginable. He is not about unity, he is about himself.

    Hillary must fight on to the finish line. Let him fall on his own sword a few more times. Maybe someday the Press will quit dressing his wounds. That day is long overdue.

    Parent

    Doesn't the moeny speak for itself (none / 0) (#65)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:17:49 AM EST
    He raises more money, has helped other democrats gets elected.  Has more votes, more wins, and more money going forward and he is not electable.  

    Dukhakis got screwed by a bad picture, that Republicans used well, and he did not defend well.  Obama took this refered wright nonsense (no one tells catholics they lack judgment for staying in the catholic church- nor should they) like a champ and fought on.  The story will be different then Dukhakis, especially if we can stop dividing ourselves down racial lnes.  If we keep on repeating this nonsense about whites and blacks we will make it so.  That would be a shame

    Obama/ Claire McCaskill 08

    Parent

    I am voting for Obama because (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by bjorn on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:23:54 AM EST
    he won, but if he puts McCaskill on the ticket, forget it.  I won't vote. She is less qualified than he is, and that is saying something.

    Parent
    Obama/ Claire McCaskill 08 ? (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by cmugirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:26:38 AM EST
    HA HA HA HA HA!  Sorry -I can't stop laughing at that one!

    Mr. Hope with Ms. Naive.

    I think that ticket wouldn't do as well as Mondale.

    Parent

    Dukakis was a professor type. (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Salo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:29:56 AM EST
    Both Bush I and McCain are/were the modern equivalent of cavalry officers---Combat Pilots.

    it's a rerun with Obama having the advantage of a poor economy.

    Parent

    McCaskill?! Yuck. n/t (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by nycstray on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:04 AM EST
    McCaskill (5.00 / 7) (#108)
    by cmugirl on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:33:23 AM EST
    Obama would be calling Hillary at 3 am to find out what to do while Claire would be texting her teenage daughter for advice.

    Parent
    Obama/ Claire McCaskill 08??? (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Nadai on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:52:19 AM EST
    Claire McCaskill?  The woman who said publicly that she wouldn't let Bill Clinton around her teenage daughter, when he was in town to fundraise for her?  What do you think - that the silly women who are upset at Hillary Clinton losing will be easily bought off with another woman in the VP slot?

    Christ.  You probably think we all look alike, too.

    Parent

    Claire McCaskill The Choice Of Any Voter (none / 0) (#181)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:38:20 PM EST
    who supports the Republican position on Iraq and FISA. She gleams  with pride about how the Republicans really, really love working with her. Why wouldn't they love working with her? She votes in lock step with them on important issues.

    I think she was correct though when she said she and Obama were ideological allies.


    Parent

    Race and Obama? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Fabian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:25:13 AM EST
    Funny you should mention "dividing ourselves down racial lines"....

    The demographics have been very...illustrative this primary season.

    Parent

    Obama has made Obama unelectable (5.00 / 8) (#16)
    by MMW on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:05:53 AM EST
    Don't play this game. The fact that some of you do not see it and continue to spout that jazz only heightens the anger. The anger running through right now is very nearly unforgiving in some.

    Just some advice - your candidate lost my support a while ago - you still have a chance with others.

    DON'T BLOW IT.

    Parent

    You're offering them good advice (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by tnjen on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:07:36 AM EST
    ...but I doubt they'll take it.

    Parent
    "making Obama seen as unelectable" (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:06:12 AM EST
    God beat us to it.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:07:29 AM EST
    At this point, I agree with you. But your lack of outrage at the "Clinton will say and do anything" campaign from Obama is duly noted.

    To be honest, your attitude is the one I always found most annoying. Sanctimonious hypocrisy has ALWAYS driven me up the wall.

    Parent

    Yes, it really cuts me (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Kathy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:42:27 AM EST
    when they look down their garlic noses at us Clinton supporters.

    Parent
    There is a lot of that going around (none / 0) (#57)
    by riddlerandy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:15:13 AM EST
    on both sides BTD.  Of course, as the presumptive nominee, Obama has more to lose from that perception than Hillary does at this point.

    It is clear that a lot of folks here will never vote for Obama at this point.  I know that you and Jeralyn are not among those folks.  But even as to them, I hope they will pour their dedication, energy, and commitment to supporting the down-ticket candidates in this critical year.  

    I have never been a strong Hillary supporter, altho I would have been happy to vote for her in the GE.  But I absolutely do admire her intellect and tireless spirit, and more recently, her ability to connect with voters.  She should have fired Mark Penn a long time ago.

    Parent

    Unexcusable? (5.00 / 8) (#30)
    by sarahfdavis on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:08:48 AM EST
    Do you want me to go down the list of 'unexcusable'?
    The arrogance and outright hatred from so many of the
    Obama supporters and the race baiting and Clinton bashing
    from Obama is what has been unexcusable. If your Unity
    guy is all powerful - let him and his supporters unify us that
    have been shat on. The condesencion of Obama and supporters
    like you make it almost impossible for me to vote for him. Oh, that's right - you don't need the white working class.


    Parent
    Heh. (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by Fabian on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:12:38 AM EST
    Tempted to make that a sig line....
    "Obama doesn't need my bitter, white, working class vote to win, riiiiiight?".

    Parent
    Nope (5.00 / 11) (#37)
    by cawaltz on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:10:24 AM EST
    Mr. Unity has the responsiility. Heck, his philosophy is that he can unify Democrats and Republicans so unifying Democrats with Democrats ought to be practice for him. Personally, I think his narrative about unifying everyone is a load of political bunk. I guess he better start praticing what he preaches and figure out how to bring Dems together(and I'd like to sugget that he try something other than I'M NOT THE OTHER GUY 2.0).

    Parent
    Let her stay. (none / 0) (#26)
    by decih on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:08:00 AM EST
    Hillary has every right to stay in this campaign. But I hope the two candidates do their best to stay positive for the remainder. The less negative campaigning we see, the less likely it is to rub off on their supporters. I'll hold no grudges.

    gah (none / 0) (#27)
    by CanadianDem on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:08:05 AM EST
    Wesley Clark is calling for her to quit. She canceled her morning show appearances, I think it's over.

    There is no proof (none / 0) (#42)
    by americanincanada on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:11:50 AM EST
    that Clarke has called her to quit.

    Parent
    Where did you hear/see this? (none / 0) (#82)
    by jawbone on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:24:03 AM EST
    Regarding the Netroots (none / 0) (#31)
    by Edgar08 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:09:29 AM EST
    It's their game whenever they make complete fools of themselves (and this is not the first time) is to shrug their shoulders and say "we're just bloggers, it doesn't matter what we say."

    I see BTD is kind of trying to downplay their influence as well.


    what to do with hillary ? (none / 0) (#52)
    by SAINTIXE56 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:13:58 AM EST
    Unless Osama , the evil one with an S strikes again;heavens forbid, Obama the good one with a B, is getting ready for Denver, which leaves us with 2 problems or rather 3. First , the biggie one, get BHO elected in November, this campaign will leave some scars, but then no one will be able to say he has not been vetted, look at the loony republicans who carry on implying he is muslim. And certainly the Dems better explain in a smarter way that nowdays in most parts of the planets and for most of people patriotism is not flag lapel wearing.
    In 1945, french women got the right to vote as , quote DeGaulle found that if they were fit to die for their country in death camps, they were sure patriotic enough. No lapels here, just facts. Has Obama done real good around him in Chicago, yes or no; has he been good and patriotic down there, yes no ; well some people in that case better speak up or shut up as the priest says...
    So get elected and the 2 remainaning pbs are Hillary ...and Bill. Bill makes her unfit to become Veep; alas Bill has a big mouth and cant be relied on to clamp down. As much as his wife for all her peculirities she is reliable and he is not. Veep no, but Secretary of Defense that would certainly be a good option. And i THINK SHE IS WAY SMARTER THAN OBLITERATE iRAN.

    Why should Hillary tie herself to (none / 0) (#132)
    by FlaDemFem on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:10:02 AM EST
    what would be an incompetent administration? Why should she let Obama drag her down? She can stay in the Senate, and if she makes Senate Leader, she will have a great platform for making sure that Obama keeps his promises, vague as they are. And she will have a good jumping off place for 2012, because Obama sure as hell can't get a second term. Everyone will see what a phony he is, and how he likes to work as much as Bush does. And the country will be tired to death of his inspiring rhetoric that doesn't get anything done. And let's not forget Michelle and her mouth. How tired are people going to be of that in 2012?? Hillary should stay in the Senate and continue to do the excellent job as Senator that she has done. Then she can clean up the mess Obama leaves behind. No need to downgrade herself by joining an Obama administration. And FYI, Hillary Clinton makes up her own mind, so don't think for a minute that "what to do with Hillary?" is a viable question. She can take care or herself, and decide for herself what she is going to do. If I were you, I would be wondering "what to do with Obama?". He's the one who is going to need the help.

    Parent
    Speaking of Donna (none / 0) (#100)
    by Iphie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:15 AM EST
    I have a phone call to make to the DNC -- yesterday someone posted an 800 number where her comments were taken by a live person -- does anyone have/remember that number? I looked at the DNC's website but couldn't find it (and I think it's only appropriate that they pay for my complaint call -- otherwise I'd pay for it).

    I used the search feature (none / 0) (#151)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:46:03 AM EST
    typed in 'call the dnc' and ... here you go:

    DNC

    Parent

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#173)
    by Iphie on Wed May 07, 2008 at 12:27:31 PM EST
    I searched using DNC and phone number, and couldn't find it.

    Parent
    Leave (none / 0) (#103)
    by sarahfdavis on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:30:33 AM EST
    take your unity crap somewhere else.
    you've got your new fancy coalition of haters.
    us working class whites, seniors, latinos, asians,
    single women will gladlly be left behind. (oh, and
    racist white men...we got those too)

    The Creative Class... (none / 0) (#119)
    by pixelpusher on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:42:22 AM EST
    ...are economically doomed in a recessionary/depressionary environment.  This is a hothouse class of Americans that has required heavy spending (most of it on credit) to even produce.  A lot of them will be moving back in with their moldy old parents before the next year is out.  They will be absorbed back into the lowly working class they look down upon now.

    They think it's finally "their turn," but their children are destined to be eunuchs in the house of Babylon, anyway.

    Sit back and watch the foolishness unfold... and keep your heads down.

    Parent

    Hispanic and working class voters (none / 0) (#118)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:41:28 AM EST
    DB is an idiot if she believes the Dems can do without hispanic or working-class voters.
    The republicans managed to blow their chance to get the important hispanic voters to split and they blew it. This is a growing demographic that should fit well with Democratic values and issues. We should be courting them, not throwing them away to the anti-immigrant republicans.

    I live in California... (none / 0) (#121)
    by Alec82 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:44:03 AM EST
    ...and trust me, we court them.  

    Parent
    Cancerous? (none / 0) (#194)
    by AdrianLesher on Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:26:47 PM EST
    Why? Because she isn't willing to say that votes other than white working class votes and latin votes can be ignored or taken for granted?

    Perhaps you should focus instead on Begala's shameful dismissal of African Americans and "eggheads" (has Begala morphed into Spiro Agnew? I'm surprised he didn't say effete snobs).

    Hillary is losing because she sold out a large part of her possible electorate in order to pander to the white working class. Integrity would have brought her farther.

    stop conflating class with race it doesnt work now (none / 0) (#209)
    by moll on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST
    Hillary is losing because she sold out a large part of her possible electorate in order to pander to the white working class.

    You're going to learn some respect for the working class in this country.

    And stop trying to divide that by racial lines: working class blacks are going to figure out their real interests are with us, not with the Jesse Jacksons and Rev. Wrights who get richer and richer while those they lead stay stuck in poverty.

    Parent

    Here is Adam Nagourney (none / 0) (#210)
    by oculus on Wed May 07, 2008 at 02:30:47 PM EST
    on Clinton's prospects after last night.  Apparently Obama gets kudos for not losing IN by more due to Wright issue.  Crazy.

    NYT