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Friday Night Open Thread

By special request, here's another open thread.

I'm working on my outline for the NORML Aspen Legal Seminar which is due Tuesday. My topic this year: Crackadoodledoo! A New Dawn in Crack Cocaine Sentencing

I'll be back later to see how you are all doing.

Update: For any of you having trouble viewing comments as usual in closed threads or threads with more than 150 comments, Colin says:

go to your user preference page and set the comment display mode that you want for overflow comments. The formats are explained in the descriptive text immediately following the preference item 'Comment Display Mode (Overflow) - That description applies equally to the first preference item on the page, which controls the display mode to be used for threads of less than the overflow limit number of comments.
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    Kinda sums up my feelings. (5.00 / 11) (#10)
    by Iphie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:27:32 PM EST
    I wish we could post photos here -- I found one this evening of three suffragettes (one of whom is Alice Paul) picketing at the Republican convention of 1920. They are holding a banner that says:
    "No self respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her self." - Susan B. Anthony, 1872
    The DNC, by both their actions and their inaction are in fact working to deny Hillary Clinton the nomination, and in so doing are denying the validity of those who have voted for her. I do not believe that the same thing would be occurring to a male candidate, in fact I was reminded the other morning that Teddy Kennedy not only challenged a sitting Democratic president, but he took his challenge all the way to the convention and waged a vigorous floor fight in 1980.

    So, given that I am a self-respecting woman, I think I shall heed Susan B. Anthony's advice from 136 years ago. If the DNC wants to discount me and my vote, they can discount any future support from me, period.

    We should march in Denver with that banner. (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:34:44 PM EST
    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:50:13 PM EST
    Great idea.

    Parent
    Let's make bumper stickers and buttons. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by honora on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:41:00 PM EST
    We have our marching orders.

    Parent
    Alice Paul (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:42:03 PM EST
    I couldn't find that photo.. but I found this one.  I don't keep a page, but if you do, you could scan the picture you found, put it on your page and then link to your own page.

    Parent
    Oh, right. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Iphie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:49:31 PM EST
    I was so interested in showing, not telling, I didn't even think to post a link. Here you go.

    Parent
    Very nice (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:52:56 PM EST
    My God, what those women went through.  The imprisonments.  The beatings.  The hatred.  The outsider status they endured from not just society but their fellow women...this is why my vote matters so much more to me, and I will not give it away just because I am "supposed" to.

    Parent
    Kathy about calling (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:59:11 PM EST
    when I was doing it for CA, I got lots of people who said they would vote for Hillary but then get out of Dem party.  They did not like what the Obama people were doing to the party.  That was in January and February.  

    I tell you they are deluding themselves.  

    Parent

    I got stuff like that (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:15:31 PM EST
    When I was calling for TX and OH, more so in PA.  This was around Crackerquidick, so they were pretty furious.  Now, with WVA, they just assume I know that they won't vote for Obama.  I mean, it's weird, because they don't even say the words but it's so much more about voting for Clinton than it is about voting for a dem.  It really is between Clinton and McCain for them.

    And I said this before and I'll say it again:  I am a lifelong dem.  Being of this party has been part of my identity for almost 40 years.  I stuffed enveloped for Carter on my daddy's knee.  The fact that I no longer consider myself a dem, that I will not vote for Obama, should be scaring the crap out of the dem party.

    Again and again, though, I am being told that not only don't they care, but that they'll do fine without me.

    We shall see...

    Parent

    will only vote for women for pres. (none / 0) (#114)
    by DandyTIger on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:26:30 AM EST
    at least until one is elected is what I'm hearing a lot around here. And I don't think that feeling is going away after a couple of months either. Especially if this ends as a coronation. That is, if MI and FL aren't counted before it's done, as well as the remaining states. If it's legitimate some percentage will cool off a bit and reconsider, if not, I think that number is going to be a real shocker.

    Time to take a stand. Time to not take this treatment anymore. It's now or never. Send a message.

    Parent

    I know. (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Iphie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:18:48 PM EST
    I happened upon the photo after Lambert at corrente brought up the National Women's Party, which got me thinking about Alice Paul and Iron Jawed Angels (excellent movie, btw, with Hillary Swank playing Paul), which led me to spending the past four hours looking at archival documentation about the suffragettes. The arguments made about the inequity and injustice of the passage of the 15th Amendment granting voting rights to African Americans but not to women was particularly ironic.

    Parent
    I'm making a t-shirt (none / 0) (#52)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:06:09 PM EST
    You can get the iron on transfers at office depot. It's pretty easy if you read directions carefully (very carefully). That will look nice on a grey shirt - blown up enough to be read from a distance. Nice, high resolution image, too. Thanks very much. :-)

    Parent
    Is this the one you are looking for? (none / 0) (#105)
    by feet on earth on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:26:40 AM EST
    oops, sorry, here it is (none / 0) (#106)
    by feet on earth on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:30:26 AM EST
    Iphie I hope that you do not mind... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by honora on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:59:53 PM EST
    I posted your quote at riverdaughter (with attribution, of course), I think it is great and I think that we should all use it when communicating with the Democratic party.  We owe it to those women that fought for our right to vote and we owe it to the women of the future. I am so mad at some of the women of now, but I will breathe deeply now.

    Parent
    Not at all. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Iphie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:06:12 PM EST
    I'm thinking of printing it up on postcard paper and sending it along with my message to Howard Dean.

    Parent
    Another awesome idea (none / 0) (#55)
    by dianem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:07:35 PM EST
    I think that there might be a few other people who need to get it, too.

    Parent
    Add it as a sig line in emails (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by nycstray on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:10:12 PM EST
    so when firing off messages to the DNC and Friends . . .

    Parent
    And "Alice Paul Lives!" buttons (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Cream City on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:25:48 PM EST
    a la the Alice Paul Memorial March on Washington more than 30 years ago -- see the buttons and more info here.
    I made one of the buttons by coping it off the site -- and it goes just gorgeously with my socks sold at the Susan B. Anthony House, socks with her most famous quote, "Failure Is Impossible."  

    Happy feet.:-) And for re-energizing our mindset, read more at Jo Freeman's site -- or read Jailed for Freedom by Doris Stevens, one of the many National Woman's Party members imprisoned and tortured for our right to vote.  

    I may need to reread a lot of the classics in coming months.

    Parent

    Great idea.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:09:57 PM EST
    And I Plan To... (none / 0) (#60)
    by AmyinSC on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:14:27 PM EST
    Put the photo on my blog, too - with a tip of the hat to you, of course!

    Thank you SO much for linking the photo, and for sharing your feelings on this.  I assure you, you are definitely NOT alone in this.  I am right there with you, because I, too, respect myself, and deeply value the right to vote for which our foremothers sacrificied so much...

    Parent

    Women have broken my heart (none / 0) (#83)
    by Foxx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:40:49 PM EST
    in this primary.

    Women are the most colonized people on earth.

    I'm not just talking about women who need men to survive. Feminists, lesians, women who can survive on their own, women who have time to research who Obama really is, are supporting him.

    How can they not support the most qualified person running for president we have seen in our lifetime? Why was it not women 90-10%? Where is our pride, where is our hope?

    Parent

    Media Review (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by waldenpond on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:29:42 PM EST
    Yes, I have been exiled by CNN and MSNBC.  So on Lou Dobbs tonight.. they discussed Kennedy's 'sad effort at party unity', discussed antipathy towards the Clinton's, Lou laughed and said 'what they (the party) betrayed them', the party left them for the $, political operatives have picked the nominee, Lou says the Dems need to wake up and treat people (white working class too) with respect (and Clinton), superdeez will go with AA vote, the guy from the WSJ called Clinton Baghdad Bob, said she'll give a great speech, Obama may very well lose, and she's set for 2012. Clinton as VP. Goodwin: No, Obama ran against Clinton. Lou says Clinton longest peace time expansion etc, all Clinton's have done, party turned on it's head, party imploding-slipping it's moorings.

    Fox: Rasmussen is no longer polling Clinton.  FL/MI disenfranchised-no way around it, Dean finagled it so Clinton was not the nominee (my argument that the Repubs will go after Clinton supporters by pointing out how she was treated by Obama, the party and the media), congrats to the Dems for picking such a flawed candidate.  Won't miss BC because they now have Michelle Obama.

    OK, that's all I can do tonight.

    Just a thought... the Dems along with the Repubs felt free to smear BC, they have opened the door to attacking the spouses.

    I have long thought (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Iphie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:43:10 PM EST
    that the Obama campaign was playing with fire when they employed misogyny to win votes, or stood by and did nothing when their supporters did. It seems to me that they haven't been playing close enough attention to the way the spouses of Democratic candidates have been treated. Theresa Heinz-Kerry, anyone? The attacks against Michelle are going to be a toxic blend of racism, sexism and anti-elitist/intellectual vitriol. I know they like to imagine the attacks against Hillary when Bill was running was because it was Hillary -- but it wasn't. It was because she was an autonomous woman with a brain, a mouth and a willingness to use both. Michelle represents too much of what the wingers hate -- they are going to have a field-day with her.
    Just a thought... the Dems along with the Repubs felt free to smear BC, they have opened the door to attacking the spouses.


    Parent
    I would almost feel sorry for her if (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:54:58 PM EST
    she hadn't said those mean things about Hillary.

    Parent
    Perhaps MO will learn (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:56:22 PM EST
    what it's like to be a strong, smart woman who is constantly in the spotlight.

    Or, maybe-as with so many things-Clinton will take that burden as well as she fights through the ge and takes the White House!

    Parent

    Michelle (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:04:27 PM EST
    is her own worst enemy. She could make Obama lose even more votes than he already is. She's arrogant and has a chip on her shoulder. And she has poor discipline.

    Parent
    Check out Riverdaughter's latest post.... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:21:50 PM EST
    ...apparently Michelle recently said that she would like to rip Bill Clinton's eyes out! Oi.

    Parent
    OMG (none / 0) (#73)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:35:17 PM EST
    And this is the woman Tweety equates with class and the new Jacqueline Kennedy...

    ...speechless...

    Parent

    she said that in the New Yorker (none / 0) (#82)
    by angie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:34:10 PM EST
    months ago -- before I canceled my subscription due to it being so in the tank for Obama. It didn't get much play then -- glad the UK paper picked it up though -- I hope it gets some play now.

    Parent
    Yes, important: This is a regular script (none / 0) (#116)
    by Cream City on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:32:39 AM EST
    and that needs to be clear -- down to the "oh oh, I shouldn't have said that."

    It also rarely is reported that her infamous statement on lack of pride in her country was said at least twice, not once, in Wisconsin alone.

    So these are not slips; these are scripts for Michelle Obama by the campaign.  Why?  What is the purpose of this surrogate appeal to the disaffected who hate the country, to the most base instincts of their followers, and to position her as the type to (ugh) "catfight" with clawing?  

    And what is the purpose of media reporting these as slips rather than, clearly, as calculated scripts that are being repeated?  I'm mystified.

    Parent

    My husband says (none / 0) (#71)
    by madamab on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:27:52 PM EST
    that Michelle is Obama's biggest problem.

    He thinks she is the one who pushed him into running now instead of waiting to build his resume and statesmanship.

    Parent

    I suspect (none / 0) (#119)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:10:52 AM EST
    your husband is right.  

    Parent
    Love your post. I could add to it but you've just (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Angel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:48:52 PM EST
    about nailed it.  Except for me to state that I missed the thread on Teddy Kennedy.  What a laugh that one of the longest serving senators had the gall to talk about a new type of leadership!  Give me a break.  If Washington needs a change I say get rid of Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, and all the other bozos of their ilk.  

    Parent
    This is (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:02:30 PM EST
    the narrative now:
    Obama will lose the general election. I've come across it quite a few times.

    At least Lou Dobbs tells the truth about what's going on.

    Parent

    Ga6th... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:11:56 PM EST
    if only it wasn't too late to nominate Clinton.  

    What's that you say?  You mean, Obama hasn't actually won the nomination?

    Toto!  Get into the basket!  We're going back to Kansas to kick some a*s!

    Parent

    Thanks for the recon. Interesting stuff. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:42:18 PM EST
    Speculating on the GOP & Obama (none / 0) (#104)
    by Fabian on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:26:16 AM EST
    It would be totally in character for the Right to go after Michelle Obama.  Not directly of course, perhaps a 527 ad that uses nothing but the truth, framed in the worst flattering way possible.

    Why?  Aside from "because they can", because Wright has shown that The Angry Black Man is a public perception problem.  So anything that they can do to provoke Obama into playing into that caricature is good.  The Right is unlikely to peel off any black voters, but that leaves them completely free to go after every non-black voter.  So - attack Michelle in order to PO Barack?  Sure.  I've read various bloggers talk about how Cindy McCain and Chelsea Clinton are fair game, certainly they must agree that Michelle Obama is as well?

    Parent

    Rewind and look at the Hillary 'attacks' (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:18:17 AM EST
    and then ramp up the volume for 'now'. Michelle (imo) should have been a bit more open towards Hillary. She's a smart woman and should know this crap will be coming down the line to her, bigger and 'better'. Hillary will defend her, but it's gonna be hard to watch, imo . .  they could be great together combating the right, but . . .

    Parent
    I think the long primary (none / 0) (#118)
    by Fabian on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:17:19 AM EST
    can really hurt Obama in the GE.  The media support is still holding and Hillary is pulling her punches because they are competing for the same base.

    But McCain and the GOP already have their own base, have written off the black vote and will not pull their punches.  From what I've seen Obama's lack of depth(re: The Issues) and touchiness are two weaknesses that could really cost him.  Clinton has not just been "vetted", she's learned how to deal with the constant attacks and pick her fights.  

    What we've seen so far is mere sparring, not the prize fight.  Anyone in the Obama Campaign who is looking forward to a cake walk GE based on their primary experience is a fool.

    Parent

    PBS's line up tonight was great:-- (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jawbone on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:49:20 PM EST
    NOW covered private prisons issue, focusing on Crowley (sp?) in CO.  Not too good a place to work: guards not as safe as at the state run prisons.

    Moyers' Journal covered Philippe Sands and his new book on BushCo torture, plus the hearings this week.

    Now, nurses' ad campaign about need for better healthcare insurance in this nation.

    Do try to catch on the web or rebroadcasts in your area.

    BTW, I'm feeling pretty down about the coverage and dismissal of Hillary in the MCM, but maybe a good night's sleep will help....

    you should try phone banking (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:51:30 PM EST
    folks in WVA and (I hear) KY are fired up for our girl.  They need to be told that every single vote counts now more than ever so she can make the popular vote argument to the SDs.

    With MI and FL in the air, and more states to come, the race is still wide open.  Five days ago, Russert said that if Clinton won IN, it would be a game-changer and Obama would be in trouble.  What has changed since then?  Now Russert is saying it's over.  With respect to the lawyers in the room, was he lying then or is he lying now?

    Parent

    As partial reward for your hard work - (none / 0) (#86)
    by liminal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:51:36 PM EST
    Tonight, the news reported a record number of early ballots had been cast as of today, not including a few counties that haven't reported yet.  Thus far in WV, over 55,000 people have voted.  

    Parent
    55K? Wow! (none / 0) (#93)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:00:34 PM EST
    What is the normal voter turn-out for a primary in WVA???  

    If we see record turn-out, despite Obama claiming Mission Accomplished, that sends a really strong message.

    The message it sends is: CLINTON 08!

    Parent

    In 2004 - (none / 0) (#100)
    by liminal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:16:31 PM EST
    - the total turnout in the Democratic primary was 252,839.  In the GE that year, total turnout was about 750,000.

    Parent
    The lead in (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:03:40 PM EST
    on NBC News was "Is Hillary Clinton Playing the Race Card".

    I was completely disgusted.

    The media brought us Bush, Iraq.  I'm not going to vote for their new fad, Obama.

    Parent

    Are they (none / 0) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:08:17 PM EST
    trying to make Obama lose worse? Everytime they start this they run more and more white voters away from Obama. I have to wonder sometimes if the media in trying to help him actually hurt him. If the voters percieve that the media is trying to help him because he's black it could cause a backlash against him.

    Parent
    Ga6th (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:17:29 PM EST
    I've been saying this for a while:

    If the voters percieve that the media is trying to help him because he's black it could cause a backlash against him.

    The media just don't see it.  They live in their white worlds in their white enclaves and they think they know everything about class and race.

    They don't.

    Parent

    Kathy, Could it be that the (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:43:40 PM EST
    race card has been overplayed so much, there's starting to be blow-back on the player?

    It reminds me of the Ken Starr sex smear of Bill Clinton - the more Bill was smeared the more popular he became. The public started to empathize with him because the magnitude of the allegations was so inherently/manifestly unfair.

    I think that's what's starting to happen here with the increasingly shrill charges of racism against Hillary.


    Parent

    yep (none / 0) (#76)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:46:26 PM EST
    crying wolf too many times.

    Plus, people are calmer now, and a lot of them who lived through the first Clinton's two terms know that they are not racist.

    Reality is starting to set in.

    Parent

    Actually it's a two-fer (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by RalphB on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:52:23 PM EST
    they get to attack Clinton while hurting Obama at the same time.  I think everytime these racist charges are made it now helps McCain, the real media darling.

    Since, if Hillary is not the nominee, I'm a charter member of "Democrats for McCain" maybe I shouldn't mind anymore, but I absolutely hate it.

    Parent

    you will be in the minority here (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Jeralyn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:32:12 AM EST
    if you support McCain in the general election. Just so you know.

    Parent
    I know but some things are worth it. (none / 0) (#110)
    by RalphB on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:16:33 AM EST
    Should add that I'm used to (none / 0) (#111)
    by RalphB on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:17:59 AM EST
    being in the minority, a left leaner in TX.  What's new?


    Parent
    When race cannot be discussed at all (none / 0) (#120)
    by AnninCA on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:18:27 AM EST
    and yet we obviously have over 90% AAs voting in a bloc, then we are in a very inauthentic and highly dysfunctional situation.  It's absurd to ignore the elephant in the living room and demand an entire nation pretend something isn't so when it's reality.  Mass delusion?

    Talk about the politics of fear!

    What concerns me, however, is that the biggest bully threat won.  "There will be blood in the streets."  I believe that threat is precisely why it became OK to condemn Hillary for every single method she tried to win as though it was divisive and allow Obama to virtually run an unending negative campaign against her based on many lies and everyone turned their head and ignored it.  

    The message I see is that women may complain, but they'll vote for Obama over the court issues and won't make things dangerous for the country.  However, race riots could erupt if Obama isn't allowed to campaign on an entirely different standard.

    Moreover, there's probably some truth to that perspective.

    Fear wins.

    Parent

    if fear wins (none / 0) (#121)
    by Jlvngstn on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:57:24 AM EST
    than i guess no one was scared of the 3 a.m. call  campaign.  perhaps she should have had a real boogey man in the ad

    Parent
    Check out this post by "Velvet" at (5.00 / 7) (#54)
    by Angel on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:07:10 PM EST
    Steve Clemens' site, Washington Note.

    "Personally I don't think the Clintons owe this country or the Democratic party jack after what I've seen. Barack Obama is a Tony Blair or Reagan like cipher-

    Personally the day his nomination gets rammed through is the day I remove the D from my voter registration. There is no way in hell I'll be a part of this when Hillary Clinton handed this student his ass on policy in 20 debates.

    Never seen anything like it, hope to never see it again.

    Who is this guy? He's black, he's white. He's young, he's old. He's experienced, he's fresh. He's a kid who had to eat a free lunch, he's a millionare. He's rightwing, he's leftwing. He's above all that. He's down in the dirt. He's religious. But he's a scientist. He's an international man of mystery, or was, when he was 8. He's a community organizer who drives a V8. He is everything. He is nothing. He is the Alpha. He is the Omega. He is the Messiah. He hangs around with ex-terrorists, colorful characters & Kennedys all in the same week. He's in the know. He's the man. He's uptown, he's downtown. Shelby Steele's got this one exactly right, I'm afraid. He admires Reagan & GHWB fp, but is endorsed by McGovern. His bff is Oprah and he sweeps academics off their feet.

    I swear to god, barring Karl Rove strapping an accent & cowboy boots onto George W. Bush, I have never encountered another public figure more contrived than this. Particularly that last refusal to debate.

    A dangerous game at a critical time. This temptation to forcibly birth a myth at the cost of pragmatism is sincerely frightening. The worst of it is the continued mass hallucination of the media, where a 50/50 split is reported as 99/1.

    Strange, unpleasant days. Not at all what I was envisioning in the post-bush era. There's a weird blame the govt thing I pick up a lot in his remarks that is not going to fly too well outside the rarefied realm of the lefty blogs. And I don't think he's far left at all- I think he's precisely what a winger would have been in the 90s with a sprinkling of lives a political life in Chicago politics & some identity politics & a whole lotta relgion in there. But what do I know."

    Wow!!! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by BostonIndependent on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:27:39 PM EST
    forcibly birth a myth

    Never thought of it that way. Makes perfect sense.
    Thanks for the post!

    Parent

    Velvet (none / 0) (#69)
    by madamab on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:26:22 PM EST
    seems to know a lot more than the entire male punditry put together.

    Lord, what fools these giant-headed corporate shills be.

    Parent

    Media Build up to the war (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:14:58 PM EST
    This is the exact same scenario, this time, they coopted the netroots.  No one learns.  

    Stella you're in my head.... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:24:31 PM EST
    ...I was thinking the same thing about half an hour ago.

    Parent
    Ever since this campaign started (none / 0) (#74)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:38:19 PM EST
    I have had this feeling that the Republicans planted a bunch of trolls in the different blogs identified as progressive and that the seed was planted in fertile soil.  

    Parent
    That would be Axelrod with the plants, imo. (none / 0) (#113)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:19:59 AM EST
    Reclusive Leftist reports that phonebankers (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by chancellor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:48:14 PM EST
    for Obama in WV are simply asking voters to donate money to Obama, telling them that the race is basically over. Is this legal? Anyway, it explains the arrogant approach that Obama is taking to not campaigning in WV.

    That should be reported... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:57:58 PM EST
    to the authorities. It's textbook voter suppression.

    Parent
    Look I know this is off topic (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Rhouse on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:57:26 PM EST
    but I wanted to know if anyone else (if they're able) is putting out food for the stamp out hunger drive.  Diane and I bought $30 worth (a gas tax holiday amount) at a bulk food store and we're leaving at the mailbox tonight.  The postal service will deliver it to the local food banks, non-perishables only.
    Now I'll just get out of the way...

    Oh thanks for reminding me.... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Maria Garcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:22:18 PM EST
    ....I have some stuff to put out. Good idea to do it this evening. That way I won't forget tomorrow.

    Parent
    Assuming Obama wins the nomination (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Saul on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:05:47 PM EST
    My gut feeling is that Obama will not offer the VP to Hilary and this will be the biggest error Obama could ever make.   That alone will wind the fires of more dissent to the Hilary supporters who would already be extremely  angry because she is not the nominee.  

    Many of the pundits to include Hilary say they will be united for the GE if Obama is the nominee regardless of what Obama does or chooses as VP.  I honestly feel that this year is very different than any past nomination.  The divisions are so great and so entrenched that that division will continue very strongly in the GE and the party will not unite.  

    I think Obama got the majority of the AA for only one reason and that is  because he is AA and not because of any hope or change that Obama preached in his campaign.   Not that J Jackson or Sharpton did not get a good deal of the  AA but compared to  Obama he got it almost 100 percent. The main reason for this was that the AA saw that Obama was the strongest AA candidate ever since AA starting running for the presidency. The desire on the AA votes  to not let this one go down the drain is extremely high and the word was out to vote for this AA if you ever one to see an AA as president.

    It is because of this very strong division that will not go away in the GE that makes me say   that  Obama could very well loose the GE because of this division.

    Chelsea's birthday wishes for her mom (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by stefystef on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:51:51 PM EST
    This is beautiful and I really don't get moved by these kind of videos, but let me tell ya... Chelsea is a wonderful woman and her support of her mother is inspirational.

    Please take the time to watch it.  Even if you don't support Hillary, you can say she has done a wonderful job raising a wonderful daughter.

    http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/mothersday/?sc=1846&utm_source=1846&utm_medium=e

    This is the most genuine thing I've seen this entire campaign.  Serious.  Truly amazing.

    I'm reading the comments in one (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:56:32 PM EST
    of the other threads and I'm not understanding how VoteVets, an organization that only started a few years ago, could possibly be an "inside the beltway" group that doesn't deserve grassroots funding.

    That's just crazy talk...

    These folks have been active in trying to get legislation through that will help the vets...that includes Webb's GI Bill.

    What the Frack!?!

    I tell you people (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:01:06 PM EST
    the Obama movement is scary.  It has all the markings of totalitarianism.  I have reached the point where if he is nominated I will work to see him lose.  

    Parent
    Well I sent the blogger formerly knows (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:06:31 PM EST
    as the angryrakkasan a heads up email...just in case they weren't already aware.

    Parent
    Stellaaa, isn't that (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:10:56 PM EST
    what community organizers do--cut off the funding of competing organizations seeking to help different blocs of the community?

    Really, why send money to veterans when you can send it to Obama?

    Parent

    Well, it is one form... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:25:02 PM EST
    the nasty ones, take the funding, so then they decide who gets it, they buy loyalty and friends.  It's really old style disgusting urban politics.  In the old Model Cities days, that's what they did.  I feel Chicago did not evolve into the model I know, strong community based non profits that do not exist because of patronage, but because they are competent housing developer, social service providers, etc.  

    Parent
    Well, it is one form... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:29:26 PM EST
    the nasty ones, take the funding, so then they decide who gets it, they buy loyalty and friends.  It's really old style disgusting urban politics.  In the old Model Cities days, that's what they did.  I feel Chicago did not evolve into the model I know, strong community based non profits that do not exist because of patronage, but because they are competent housing developer, social service providers, etc.  

    I will not say which city, but the first job I had, when they came around with the payroll, you had to sign for your check, well, right above mine was a preacher, a very well connected preacher.  Well, no one ever heard complaints from that neighborhood.  The preacher would then throw some crumbs and look like he delivered to his community.  

    Parent

    CNN election night outrage (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:59:41 PM EST
    Interesting article about CNN's coverage.  I frankly totally agree with Lanny Davis
    Davis said he told a producer several times before getting on-air that he wanted to offer a counterpoint to CNN's panel, which he thinks is too pro-Obama.

    Regarding the panel's make-up, Davis said that he believes Gloria Borger, David Gergen, Donna Brazile and Carl Bernstein are all tougher on Clinton than on her rival. And he maintains that Roland Martin is definitely a "partisan for Obama." (Martin has not official endorsed Obama and is not labeled as such on the network,)

    "I have seen the stacked deck on the so-called panels, which always struck me as imbalanced against Hillary on Election Night," Davis said, adding that a producer assured him there would be "equal time."


    Also, Brazile, who had already sparred earlier with Begala, said to Davis: "Now, if you want to keep fighting, let's fight. But let's you and I go in the green room and fight, and not keep this fight up."

    "I'm not fighting with you, Donna," he responded.



    Cattchy title for your topic. (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:06:37 PM EST


    No kidding (none / 0) (#5)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:11:56 PM EST
    please read the sign and make sure you go into the NRML conference and not the NAMBLA one!

    Okay, I'm a little punchy after making phone calls all day and it's t-minus 39 minutes for B! S! G!

    Parent

    So where are the BSG people tonight? (none / 0) (#2)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:07:16 PM EST
    Hybrids, anyone?

    Baseball. (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:07:59 PM EST
    Rained out here.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:21:26 PM EST
    My Mets need to light a fire under their arse and start peeling off some wins.

    Parent
    Mets (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Florida Resident on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:36:22 PM EST
    is that plural for Metropolitan Opera House?  :-)

    Parent
    I better get some Adama/Roslin action tonight (none / 0) (#11)
    by davnee on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:27:49 PM EST
    I missed my dose last week.

    Parent
    Woot (none / 0) (#29)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:42:40 PM EST
    I've heard there will be some Roslin/Adama action coming up in the near future. I'm jonesing for some more hot (ex) pilot love but it's not gonna happen until Kara and Lee get back to the same place together. I know it won't end well but...yeah.

    Parent
    Am I the only one (none / 0) (#33)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:48:57 PM EST
    who felt like there was something going on behind the scenes that we didn't know about but they kept hinting at?  That romantic night on the planet whose name I forget--where they went off into the woods?

    It's SO ROMANTIC the way he reads to her when she's getting treatment.

    Parent

    Oh I think it's theres (none / 0) (#44)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:57:32 PM EST
    Papadama just seems to be the sort to play his cards close to the vest, but the UST (unresolved sexual tension) is pretty blatant. Have you see the extended version of that episode ("Unfinished Businesss")? It's even more obvious with a very long scene of the two of them lying together snuggling and getting stoned on New Caprican Funny Tobacco. It's very sweet.

    Parent
    The end of tonight's ep was bliss. (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by davnee on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:44:54 PM EST
    I eeeeee'd.  I'm an adult.  It was embarrassing.

    Parent
    Hee! (none / 0) (#98)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:14:01 PM EST
    Ah, I did too. They're very sweet together in their own way. I love all the relationships on the show. The only one that didn't move me was Lee/Dee but that's cos she was kind of dull with him. She worked so much better with Billy.

    Parent
    O!!! M!!! G!!! (none / 0) (#77)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:47:12 PM EST
    how hot was it when those two sixes kissed?  Six on Six action!

    Parent
    6 x 6 = 36? (none / 0) (#99)
    by janarchy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:14:30 PM EST
    That was very very hot. I'm sure Gaius is sorry he missed it!

    Parent
    Jim Webb is leading Huff Po's (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:11:25 PM EST
    poll on who will be Obama's VP.

    Jim Webb (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by honora on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:24:37 PM EST
    That would make it even easier for me not to vote for Obama.  Wasn't Webb the Navy secretary that said something really horrible about women in the military or am I thinking of someone else?  Anyway, could you imagine the two of them together, Webb would make Obama look even more metrosexual.

    Parent
    He Also Voted Against Setting Any Timetable (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    on Iraq and voted against FISA. Not my idea of who I would like as a VP candidate.

    Parent
    Yes he was (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:39:35 PM EST
    And it was quite controversial during his recent campaign. A lot of military women spoke out against him. But he also found some to support him and he said he regretted his previous remarks.

    Parent
    My mother couldn't stand that his wife always (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Teresa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    walked about five steps behind him and at his victory speech, he flat out ignored her.

    Parent
    I was at the Ballroom... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kredwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:12:58 PM EST
    When they came on stage I thought she was mostly along side him...except for the fact that she was holding the little girl's hand (IIRC).

    Parent
    Yes that was him (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by Cate on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:40:44 PM EST
    Mr. Msogynist Blue Dog Webb

    Parent
    Not Dick Cheney? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by MarkL on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:26:43 PM EST
    Oh well, maybe he'll reach out by choosing Coburn.

    Parent
    Two first term senators? Oh, that's just great! (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jawbone on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:41:43 PM EST
    Webb is the best Dems could expect to get elected in VA at the time -- and without the Macaca moment caught on tape he would not have won.

    Too dicey to hope the Dems could find a good replacement candidate for Webb.

    He does have populist economin leanings which actually might not fit that well with Obama's Univ. of Chicago advisers' approach. I really don't know what Obama's own approaches really are....

    HuffPo? Get a grip!


    Parent

    Exactly. So the only reason Allen lost (none / 0) (#35)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:49:24 PM EST
    was macaca yet Obama will beat McCain to be the first Dem presidential winner since LBJ. I just don't think this state has changed that much in 2 years.

    Parent
    Noooooo! We need him in the Senate. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:27:31 PM EST
    I'm hoping to have 2 Dem senators for once in my life.

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#72)
    by madamab on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:31:21 PM EST
    He is not perfect but he is definitely NOT a Republican.

    Plus, you may have Mark Warner soon, whom I do like a lot. (Thought he'd be a good Pres candidate, actually.)

    Parent

    I voted for him (none / 0) (#12)
    by 0 politico on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:28:50 PM EST
    in the Senate race, but...I don't know that he is a "progressive" leader.  He was anti Iraq War (something I did not support from the get go, but I understand the mind set on the Hill when they passed the AUMF).  And, Webb really needed the self destruction of George Allen to get the vote.

    I know the anti-war nits see Webb as some sort of poster boy for their cause, and he would lend some national security credibility to a BO led ticket, but is that really what the faithful want?

    Parent

    He Voted With Republicans On Iraq (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:34:03 PM EST
    since entering the Senate. He thought Iraq was a wrong decision but he is against setting any timetable to get out.

    Parent
    I agree. Not ideal at all. I just like (none / 0) (#15)
    by Joan in VA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:33:16 PM EST
    him because he's not George Allen!

    Parent
    Like it! (none / 0) (#24)
    by Molly Pitcher on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:41:43 PM EST
    An attorney with a sense of humor?  Do tell!

    Damt (none / 0) (#28)
    by blogtopus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:42:30 PM EST
    Didn't think my work was off topic, but oh well.

    Does ANYONE in Generation Y or 2K know about McGovern?

    I do, but (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by mulletov cocktails on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:23:28 PM EST
    unfortunately, not many other people my age (28) and younger have any idea who he is.  He thought it was a good idea to win without the working class.

    I'd always heard he'd been quoted as saying, "I opened the door for the Democratic party and 20 million left."

    Parent

    I clicked through before it was gone (none / 0) (#31)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:47:49 PM EST
    kudos

    Parent
    Spam filter probably got it (none / 0) (#39)
    by Stellaaa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:51:53 PM EST
    maybe improperly formatted for link? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Kathy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:55:12 PM EST
    Here is my favorite one.

    (if not, then sorry TL.  Please delete)

    Parent

    it wasn't off topic (none / 0) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:01:34 PM EST
    you posted five urls not in html format for self promotion. Next time try, "I have some artwork up about xxx I think you'd like, it's here. And put a single url in html format highlighting the word "here."

    Parent
    Overzealous, my bad (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by blogtopus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:41:47 PM EST
    It was rather rude of me to have that stack of links on your forum, J. Sorry about that, I just got so excited by the fun work.

    Check out some of these. I put them together because it seems that the O really had a nice look in them thar letters. Seems almost at home, as if it BELONGED there. :-)

    Oh, and someone requested this a couple nights ago, when the O campaign decided to let it leak he'll be announcing his victory in late May: Pony Accomplished.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:05:53 PM EST
    Their eyes glaze over when you mention it. Afterall "old people" are stupid anyway.

    Parent
    Oops, I meant "MOTHER"S DAY". (none / 0) (#89)
    by stefystef on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:53:01 PM EST
    Hahaahhaha, sorry about that.
    Typing too late at night.

    Phone Bank to WV, Remind them they can vote 5/10 (none / 0) (#103)
    by nycstray on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:16:12 AM EST
    http://tools.hillaryclinton.com/calling/

    and make sure they know how important it is to get everyone they know to vote, because turnout COUNTS!!!  :)

    Lobby the Super Delegates (none / 0) (#108)
    by KevinMc on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:39:57 AM EST
    This site makes it easy to contact the Super Delegates, you can even email them directly from the site.  Take a moment to let them know why you think they should support your candidate.  I emailed several and I have written to my in-state delegates via snail mail.

    Lobby the Super Delegates

    I just read an article in the (none / 0) (#109)
    by frankly0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:00:12 AM EST
    WaPo that is pretty astonishing in the lengths it will go to to call Hillary voters racist.

    Here's the new definition of "racism", with examples:

    Racial attitudes have changed dramatically in the United States over the past several decades, of course, and overtly racist beliefs are much less prevalent among white Americans of all classes today. But a more subtle form of prejudice, which social scientists sometimes call symbolic racism, is still out there -- especially among working-class whites.

    Symbolic racism means believing that African American poverty and other problems are largely the result of lack of ambition and effort, rather than white racism and discrimination. Who holds symbolically racist beliefs? A relatively large portion of white voters in general and white working-class voters in particular, according to the 2004 American National Election Study, the best data available on this topic. A few answers underscore how widespread these attitudes are:

    · Almost 60 percent of white voters agreed with the statement that "blacks should try harder to succeed." A startling 43 percent of white college graduates nodded at this one, along with 71 percent of whites with no college education.

    · Fully 49 percent of white voters disagreed with the statement that "history makes it more difficult for blacks to succeed." Forty percent of white college graduates disagreed with it, along with 58 percent of whites with no college education.

    Look at the examples of the new "racism": believing that "blacks should try harder to succeed", and disagreeing that "history makes it more difficult for blacks to succeed."

    Now I happen to agree that "history makes it more difficult for blacks to succeed", but it would be repulsive for me to declare that anyone who disagrees is, necessarily, a racist of any kind. Some people simply genuinely believe that in present day America, an individual of any race is not really going to be held back if they perform in their jobs. (Again, I think that's a bit naive -- but hardly racist.) And should blacks try harder to succeed? I guess I had thought that that's what even Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farrakhan believed and advocated. Is it really implausible that the culture of poverty, in which many blacks find themselves, is not one that discourages the belief that effort pays off, and can engender a state of learned helplessness?

    Really, these political "scientists" like the author of this article will find any means to support their claims of racism. They just can't stop themselves from using that term, even if they have to reinvent a meaning for it so that they can use it as a smear.

    Obama VP (none / 0) (#115)
    by DandyTIger on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:05:45 AM EST
    OK, crazy late topic time. Here's a wild prediction if Obama is the nominee on who he might pick as his VP. A republican. Yep, you heard it here first. What if he picked Lieberman or some young repub governor. Sort of the type of person McCain is looking for. He wouldn't loose any of the egghead or AA voters (NDP). Heck, they'd vote for him if he chose a turtle for VP. But it might peel off some repub voters. Unity all over again.

    Now that I've made myself nauseous with that, time for bed.

    Obama Will Not Pick Lieberman (none / 0) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:07:00 AM EST
    That would be pure insanity.

    Parent