As I said in the last thread, some Obama supporters appear to confuse "Unity" with "submission."

[There is an] authentic, deep anger among Clinton supporters.

Rumors abound that the Obama campaign will co-opt Hillary -- by offering her a graceful exit with a HHS Cabinet post from which she can direct health-care reform. Whether that will work is anybody's guess, but one thing seems pretty sure to me.

This was not only a great peak at the backroom dealings of the political machine, it was foretelling of what's to come form the great savior of our party - Nothing.

It is not only sexist. It is racist and ageist too.

I know many men of all ages, and met many AA, Hispanic and Asian women yesterday outside the DNC meeting yesterday who were extremely incensed by the outcome of it. They weren't all Clinton supporters even.

I am a male in my 20s and I am equally angry about what has transpired during this nominating process.

The fact that the TV networks show videos of older women with extremely passionate views and support for Clinton is what fits with the narrative -- however misguided it is -- that her sole support comes from middle-aged and elderly white women.

It's total bollocks. She has huge numbers of students, AAs, Latinos, Asians of both sexes of all ages who support her and will continue to support her for as long as she's in it. Many of them will NOT support Obama just because he's been shoved down their throats as the party's nominee.

It sounds like his desire to see Obama elected has gotten the best of him once again.

You don't start Civil Wars and then suddenly look to call ceasefires arbitrarily. To the overwhelming majority of Clinton supporters (and to the GOP), the Obama camp and it's supporters in the media and beyond have done everything in their power to burn bridges at every opportunity. The RFK debacle was just another example. And so, the aftereffects of this strategy will have to be lived with by the Obamans.

Things are likely to dramatically shift now. There are no more committees to be rigged our states to be disenfranchised. And thus, the reality that Clinton supporters constitute the majority of the party and that we hold the fate of Obama in our hands (well, somewhat; even if all of us voted for him he might still lose in November) is now coming to the fore of the minds of those who were calling us all sorts of names only days ago.

I do not envy the Obamans' position, and I have no great words of encouragement for your predicament. All I can say is in the future, please remember this phrase:

If you live by the sword you will die by the sword

Unifying the party will be up to Obama (if he's the nominee).

And it's just nonsense to claim "there's nothing he can do" to unify the party.

If Obama is the nominee, I still plan on voting for him.  But he, and his campaign, make this harder every day.

People will automatically forget that they have been called racists, uneducated, low class, low information voters who are not necessary to the NEW Democratic Party. They will forget that Obama has put SS on the table, ran "poison pill"  ads against UHC, wants to have a foreign policy like Reagan, has stated that he might put Republicans in the positions of Sec. of Defense and State, has a Republican on his short list for VP, believes that Republicans have better ideas regarding government regulations and education, voted in favor of Cheney's Energy policy, introduced a liquified coal bill which Gore said was horrible, supports nuclear energy without being aware of  the dangers such as Hanford and has supported disenfranchising two swing states.

People will automatically forget that the NEW Democratic remained silent or contributed to the sexist attacks and the demonization of Hillary until it no longer mattered and then make a few token comments. People will automatically forget that the NEW Democratic remained silent or contributed painting the Clintons and large segments of the party as racists and claiming that the Clinton presidency was as bad for America as Bush's current administration.

People will ignore the fact the Obama campaign, his surrogates and his supporters continue the attacks on Hillary and continue their insults of voters who do not support Obama.

Vague demands of Obama bringing the party together are all well and good.  But what can he specifically do to further that goal at this point?

Until Hillary concedes, any sort of appeal to Hillary supporters will be received by them as arrogance since he isn't the nominee yet.

Both. Not just Obama. Not just Clinton. Both. Unity.

After Edwards fell through I would have been willing to go either way.  But found the shortcomings of the candidate, Obama, then I started to see the shortcomings of his surrogates and his supporters.  My conclusion, is and will be I do not want people, who may share some of my political aspirations, who do not share my values to have power.  Cause in the end, things like that matter.

Their contempt is for voters, and not just in slamming the popular vote as if it means less than some slick political hucksters bullsh!t du jour. Their contempt is clear with stupid pol tricks like getting voters to vote Uncommitted, or get Repugs in on the joke by being Dems for a Day.

Why should anyone be an activist for this mockery?

How dare Donna Brazile huff and puff with Mamma talk and lay that fake Della Gente smack about disenfranchisement. She's no Dem but she's definitely one of the biggest Jackasses to ever disgrace this once proud party that made me declare Independence from their shameful Bush era record.

Stealing votes from Sen Clinton, and shredding others so they won't count, lays down the doubt in millions of voters' heads that it could be his or her vote that was treated that way.

That's the thing, unless EACH VOTE is treated as precious, even a small number of votes shabbily treated puts the entire process in jeopardy.

The other self-defeating principle of this contempt for the popular vote is going to make it hard for all but those swimming in BO's tank of Whine-Koolaid to GOTV, knock on doors for him.

Why, when votes don't count for the candidate, should disenfranchised Dems go out and scrape together every possible vote for this (impending IMO) most expensive landslide loser in history?

What Sen. Clinton shows me by going out and personally fighting for every vote by reaching the voter is that my vote will be appreciated and, more importantly, she'll fight to get it counted.

No.

Hillary's supporters -- we the majority of the party which is being set-up for an elitist coup -- understand her position. We know she will have to do the right thing if she is denied at the convention. We get it. Unlike many Obamans, most of us have spent decades in politics and we know how the drill goes.

That said, if Hillary came to my house tomorrow and told me to vote for Obama, I would still both campaign for and vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee. I am not a Clinton Cultist; I think for myself and will act for myself.

And what has happened and has been done to the Clintons, myself, fellow members of the Clinton Majority, and FL & MI has provided me with all the data points I need in order to have made my decision.

The Obamans are scared, and rightly so. Despite the bold announcements by the Chaz Todds of the world, the Democratic Party is not the Obama Party. And more to the point, America is not the Obama Party.

The reality of the futility of trying to force-feed a candidate down the nation's throat via ethnically divisive means and coercion such as that by Klein and Meteor is about to hit exceedingly hard for the Obamans.

"In Illinois, he eliminated the competition.

In FL, he eliminated the voters.

In MI, he stole the voters.

The notion that Clinton could heal the party by launching some unity campaign is ludicrous.  Do they really think we haven't seen and heard everything that has happened?  Do they really think that Clinton can direct people to just forget?  Perhaps they really just don't realize how much has happened and they are so blinded that they can't begin to empathize.  That's the only thing I can figure -- because some of these people were, I thought, truly good people.  If the shoe were on the other foot, they'd never stand for the kind of treatment Clinton has gotten.  

Why is it that so many feel that they can verbally beat people into submission?  It just doesn't work.

Everything that ever happened is Clinton's fault. (Unless it's a good thing. Then it's Reagan's fault.)

Everything that ever will happen is Clinton's fault. (Unless it's a good thing. Then it's Obama's fault.)

Trying to stay above the fray and speak in mindless platitudes, allowing his competitor to go out and fight for every vote.

I keep wondering why anyone thinks that insulting people on the brink will bring them back.  I did the whole abusive relationship thing once, briefly.  "No one loves you the way that I do." sounded false the first time that I heard it.

As far as Booman is concerned, it's now the Obama Party.

In my view, that means it's Obama's--not Clinton's--job to unite the party.

We just discovered that the Clintons no longer control the Democratic National Committee. They were unable to win a single argument today. The Obama campaign joined both the Florida and Michigan Democratic Party's proposals, and both proposals prevailed. In Florida, the delegation was restored but given only half votes. In Michigan, the delegation was also restored, but given only half votes. But the Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) chucked out the results of the Michigan primary and instead used a formula awarding Obama all Uncommitted delegates plus four delegates the election results would have awarded to Clinton.

This is a thing to celebrate, according to Obama supporters. Let's see--did Obama need those 4 delegates to announce his own coronation this week, as he plans to do? Were those 4 delegates that belong to Clinton--but were stolen from her and awarded to Obama by RBC--the only thing standing between Obama and his coronation?

If they were not, then why are Democrats celebrating such despicable disenfranchisement of Democrats?

This simply cannot stand. For Sen. Levin to offer a 69-59 split of delegates and take 4 delegates FROM Sen. Clinton in order to award them to Sen. Obama--who wasn't on the ballot--is postitively Orwellian.

And, for Howard Dean to excuse the decision--while commending the RBC this morning on CNN--by saying there were no other offers presented--is stunning.

Did there need to be an offer presented that Clinton would get the delegates she's already earned with the voters' votes?

What sort of logic is that? Under Dean's logic, they might have split the delegates in Florida 50/50 because "neither could campaign in the state"!

This is unconscionable, sickening and outrageous. I can't speak for others, but I won't stand for it.

Unless Clinton gets the delegates she has earned in the Michigan Primary, regardless of what happens with the "uncommitteds," which should go to the Convention as "uncommitteds" in the first place--then I am leaving this party, registering as an INDEPENDENT, and voting for McCain to register my DISGUST with this party. Don't lecture me about "unity" MB; and don't lecture me about "4 more years."

We got the first 8 years because of DISENFRANCHISEMENT of Democrats. We were supposed to be angry and outraged by that; and we were.

Now, MB and Booman are celebrating DISENFRANCHISEMENT of Democrats, and deriding me for not celebrating it.  

Notwithstanding the arguments in favor of SDs going with Hillary, my guess is that there will SD move to Obama soon after Tuesday.  At that point, he can move more to the unity theme without offending all but the most die-hard Hillary supporters.

I am sure that this is going to sound patronizing, but I can understand to some extent the strong reaction of the Hillary supporters to her not getting the nomination.  In 1980, I spent six months working on Ted Kennedy's campaign, and was, to say the least, very unhappy with the result, to the point were I voted for John Anderson.  It was a big mistake for which I have never entirely forgiven myself, the one time in my lifetime I did not vote for the Dem nominee.  I know that Hillary supporters will say this is different, and I understand that.  

But in the end, it still comes down to whether in your heart of hearts you really think that there would be no difference between McCain and Obama, or that somehow Obama must be punished.  

Murderers have been released from prison on both sides, in order to build peace, and it's working pretty good.

So I beg Clinton supporters (and Obama supporters too for that matter) to quit repeating every hurt that has been uttered and refusing to forgive. Because it is too important. Maybe Obama, with the benefit of Clinton's wisdom, (which some of you think he lacks) and the wisdom and energy of many people on this site will be a good president. (He certainly cannot be worse than the guy who's there at the moment.)

THE DNC had to count, but how they counted them was intended to show their support for Obama, not her..

So she brought them that far, how much farther she can bring them to her side will be intriguing to watch...

Never say never...

The line is that McCaine is an OLD FART,repeated continuously, and goes on to assert that McCaine was STUPID to go to Vietnam in the first place and even STUPIDER to get himself TORTURED.

These kind of gang attacks are something that I find totally unacceptable. As an older woman I feel it would be impossible to vote for this kind of candidate. I am even beginning to find McCaine quite charming! His remarks on non-nuclear proliferation convince me more, while Obama's lack of preparation on HANFORD convince me ever less.

Hillary is within her rights to brush herself off and go to some wonderful south Pacific island to relax for a few weeks come Wednesday.

He proved to me a long time ago that he is not capable of winning the hearts and minds of those who, in his mind, have had the bad judgment to support someone who opposed - and opposes - him.

It is his treatment of Clinton which has given his supporters and his surrogates permission to be vile and ugly and divisive.  

I find it beyond ironic that after months of being treated like we are too stupid to live because we are supporting Clinton, now we are being "encouraged" to unify behind Obama by being told we will still be too stupid to live if we don't.

Really! Dukakis said that's what he learned in his loss. McGovern said that recently; that the lose needed to have worked more for him. Dean said it today on ABC: The most imporant supporter is the one who gets 49% of the vote.

"He's not going to wait by the phone like a high-school girl waiting for a date," said Dunn. "That's not Barack Obama."

"After Tuesday," Dunn added, referring to the final contests of South Dakota and Montana, Clinton "can decide how united she wants this party to be."

Political tradition and logic dictate that the victor politely waits for the vanquished to leave the field.

Dunn said yesterday that Obama will not wait "like some school girl waiting for a date" for Clinton to step out. "That's not Barack Obama."

I have been a long time (in blog life)  reader of this Blog and new subscriber (first time on any blog actually). I was drawn to this site to meet, listen  and understand the arguments, positions and grievances of Sen. Hilary R. Clinton supporters.

Please note that I have the at most respect and admiration for Sen. Hillary R. Clinton, her supporters who like all supports (including Sen. Brack H. Obama) ran the gamut for the level of passionate support to their chosen candidate, knowledge of the issues, and for lack of a better word prejudice (Sexism/Racism etc.)

I grew up in the era of President Bill Clinton and  was inspired by the Pres. Clinton handling of difficult political, economical, and internal issues. After these past 7 years of Bush, I was in desperate need for a leader in the white house that I could understand (as much as I can understand any one outside of myself) and share a common causes like: the Rights of Women, civil liberties/equality for all including our sexual orientation, the pursuit of peace, respect for the rule of law,  and the addressing crisis of climate change and global warming to name a few.

These past few months have been difficult for me watching my candidate lose (regardless of the horrendous coverage by the media). I came to this site in hopes of finding those who support Sen. Hillary R. Clinton discuss how we could further our cause, but instead on this blog and in other I have found the most horrific display of Sexism and Races and other forms of bigotry in every blog I have visited.

I find these blogs give every fool who can type to say whatever sick fantasy that crosses their mind without repercussions. I have read allegations being launched about Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama that should make all of us Democrats grinch, but we scroll bass them and continue on and shout over each other. Do we listen to each other any more, do we even care about the causes we as democrats should care about and are vital to the national/global interest. I know, you wont answer, because these issues that I listed above are not on your mind, you are rooting for your favorite sports team and are exited and don't care about any other thing except to feel the thrill of victory or in some others carry defeat as justification and simple of all the wrongs in our society. I don't know if I can find an answer to explain what I have been reading these past weeks, but I will continue to try and remember why I am a democrat.

I have resolved to my self that Sen. Hillary R. Clinton will lose this election. I am sadden and disappointed by this, she ran a great campaign that had great moments and not so great moments at times, but still it was a historic battle and I will continue to support Sen. Hillary R. Clinton in whatever she choses to do.

Furthermore, I have resolved my self to supporting Sen. Brack H. Obama because of the shared causes we as democrats including Sen. Hillary R. Clinton have in common and the challenges we face in the coming years.

Thank you everyone, for taking the time to read my feeling on this matter.

I suppose unifying the party is "a problem" for HRC only insofar as getting her supporters to go along with unity is "a problem".

The same obtains for Obama and his supporters.

Both sides need to take a day off, look around at the magnificent (where I am, anyway) late spring day which is today, enjoy it, and then come back to the race later.

And, as to both sides on this dispute, they (and every one of them) need to remember and ponder these points:  

1.  IF the Democrats do not unify - now - there is a very good chance of President McCain come January 20, 2009.  
   
2.  And of whomever McSame chooses as his Vice President taking over sometime between then and January 20, 2012.
   
3.  And by November 2012, wistful memories of how the 2008 election was the last presidential election.  Ever.  

Last week, the government lawyer in the al-Marri appeal explicitly acknowledged in responding to the judges during oral argument that the government's position was that the government could lawfully send soldiers into your house, seize you, haul you off to a military prison, and hold you there indefinitely with neither a formal charge nor hope of one, all if the President decided you were to be suspected of being a terrorist.  That term, of course, being defined solely by him, in whatever way he chose at the moment.

Do you think for a minute that Vice President Giuliani, or Vice President Romney, or whatever hairball the Republicans cough up to fill in for McCain's cancerous carcass when it finally craps out would hesitate to use that power against Democrats?  If you do, you're dumber than you look.  Remember, Karl Rove walks free as we speak - and he's been behind targeting Democrats through the civilized niceties of actual criminal prosecutions.

You won't get those niceties if the Democrats lose this election.

So, take a day off.  Go smell the roses (if, like for me, they're blooming where you are).  Enjoy the sun and breeze.  Remember, as you do, what's at stake.

Obama had no Geraldine Ferraro, who Ta-Nehisi Coates aptly derided in Slate.  Obama had no Lanny Davis.  Obama had no supporters at the RBC selling the idea that Sen. Clinton was a murderer.

There is powerful onus on both of them, and in my humble opinion, you need to accept that.