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Late Night: The Doobie Brothers

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 12:28:29 AM EST
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Might as well stick with the theme of the day.

This is an open thread.

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    Late Night: The Doobie Brothers | 72 comments (72 topical)

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    Thank you Jeralyn (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 12:41:19 AM EST
    for a well moderated forum. I was on another site and they kept complaining about being deleted here. And some of the things they were saying really turned my stomache(about Obama). It must be very difficult to keep a balance and I don't envy you the job.

    Convention delegate roll call (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by FemB4dem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:16:31 AM EST
    Has anyone been following the discussion over whether Hillary will get a roll call of her delegates at the convention?

    Why shouldn't she?  Jesse Jackson did in 1984.  What gives here?  Is Obama really that weak of a candidate that the party is afraid the public will see that he won't make the "magic number" of delegates until, what, when Washington is called, maybe Wyoming?  (LOL, maybe West Virginia).

    Dean has said no roll call.  Jeralyn, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.  Isn't it the least the party owes Hillary for her agreeing to not take the fight to the convention?  And doesn't the party owe it to us, her voters?  

    The insults just keep piling up (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by otherlisa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:23:04 AM EST
    The closest Democratic primary in how many years, and they want to pull a demeaning stunt like this?

    Do these guys want to win in the fall? Seriously.

    Parent

    That is just so (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:38:32 AM EST
    bizarre to me. I don't see any reason for it other than he wants to complete the public shaming of Hillary Clinton.

    Parent
    Before or after she unites the party? (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:44:58 AM EST


    Parent
    Isn't it more likely to be a way to control (none / 0) (#56)
    by Newt on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:59:47 AM EST
    the perception of a unified party?  It's not about shaming as much as power, or the perception of power.

    Parent
    gawd (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:01:15 AM EST
    i swear, most of the democratic party has been failing my is-this-person dateable test.

    unity, democracy, process?

    i call passive-aggressive shenanigans yet again.


    A person with this disorder may appear to comply with another's wishes and may even demonstrate enthusiasm for them. However, the requested action is either performed too late to be helpful, performed in a way that is useless, or is otherwise sabotaged to express anger that cannot be expressed verbally.


    Parent
    Hey Howard Dean!!!!!!!! (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:20:57 AM EST
    I want my party back!!!

    Sincerely,

    A Concerned Voter.

    Parent

    Howard Dean responds: (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:26:20 AM EST
    Voters please file in triplicate. Your concerns will be addressed no later than December 2008. Donors please head to the front of the line.

    Parent
    P.S. (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:28:10 AM EST
    Be assured we'll have a national conversation about this.  

    Hugs and Unity,

    Howard.

    Parent

    A song (none / 0) (#21)
    by LoisInCo on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:08:09 AM EST
    that applies to this topic here.

    Parent
    Slate covers Bilderberg Conference (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by otherlisa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 01:21:52 AM EST
    questions the media blackout and talks about Bilderberger Jim Johnson at some length.

    Is it just me, or is life resembling an X-Files episode - one of the ones with Cigarette Smoking Man?

    Link here.

    X files Yes (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by kelsweet on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:10:27 AM EST
    i said the same thing to my husband the other day. He thinks i may be a lil paranoid. I disagree and am glad to see someone is in agreement with me. Does not bode well.

    Parent
    I vote for Millenium myself. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:14:03 AM EST
    In that series the secret organization that was supposed to be protecting us from the forces of evil turned out to be corrupt and self serving.

    Parent
    Just because you are paranoid (none / 0) (#78)
    by soccermom on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 07:32:09 AM EST
    doesn't mean you're crazy.

    Parent
    I gotta wonder about this group (none / 0) (#52)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:31:43 AM EST
    and if they aren't similar to a lot of other "top level" secretive groups that meet around the world?  

    Seriously...  If they had a week-long meeting, would they pick a night to dress in funny costumes and drink heavily like the Conquistadores del Cielo?  Or would they possibly have sharpshooting contests like the Rancheros Vistadores?  

    Do these groups tend to promote social ties between high level executives?  Probably...  Is business discussed?  Possibly...  

    But does all that mean there is something nefarious about the group?  Probably not.    

    Parent

    it's a really dumb video (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:06:52 AM EST
    i mean seriously?  "the mccain clinic" where no options exist cause he vetoed mandating prescription coverage of birth control?

    i can't believe i just wasted 30+ seconds of my life watching that ad.  except for the comments, which were a hoot:


    Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

    Obama supporters are trying to play the women card?

    McCain was more supportive and respectful of Hillary Clinton than any of you ever were.
    I was kinda diggin' the nurse's hat . . (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:33:57 AM EST
    For some reason it made me think of "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest" . . .

    Parent
    When was the last time (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:27:31 AM EST
    you saw an actual nurse wear one of those things?

    It's easier to ID someone as working in health care by their scrubs.  The people who actually process your information are usually dressed in civilian clothes and they use as little paper as possible and aren't nurses.  Pay a nurse to do a clerk's job?  No way.

    (The scrubs thing is very ambiguous.  You could be a doc, a nurse, a lab technician or a housekeeper and wear scrubs.  Not only that, but often in a hospital, different departments use different colored or patterned scrubs.  But they ALL wear their security badges when they are on the job.  That's the best way to tell what their job is.)

    Parent

    well, the comments on that video (none / 0) (#60)
    by boredmpa on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:11:58 AM EST
    made me think of misogyny in the primary and tangentially about a flash video i found a while back.

    so this is my snarky meta link on misogyny in the primary.

    note: not really safe for work (unless phallic dinosaurs are a-ok?)
    note: 10 minutes long
    note: one of the top 5 most bizarre things i've seen on the net

    Umm, a dinosaur movie called Cumbersnatch

    And yeah, i was just lookin for an excuse to post the link.  It's really totally unrelated. :P

    Parent

    Hillary Rodham Clinton running as an Independent (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Kedar on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:09:06 AM EST
    A recent Rasmussen Reports poll shows that twenty-nine percent of Democrats would support Senator Clinton running as an independent in the fall.  Why not?

    She would never do it (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:21:34 AM EST
    She does believe in the Democratic Party, or at least the principles it held before the 'New Coalition' as represented by Dean, Pelosi and our friend, Donna Brazile took over.

    And she's an optimist.  I'm sure she thinks the party can be won back.  But she'll never be able to accomplish that, or contribute to that, if she runs as an independent.

    However, nearly 30% is a pretty hefty number.  Now why is Obama ignoring her supporters?

    Parent

    30% of Democrats is at best ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by cymro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:15:35 AM EST
    ... 30% of 55% of voters (using an optimistic estimate of the Democrats' share). That is 16.5% of all voters. That would leave 70% of 55% for Obama, which would be 38.5%. McCain gets the other 45%.

    Can someone who understands math please explain again how Hillary can run as an independent?

    Parent

    No one says it's real (none / 0) (#49)
    by A little night musing on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:18:16 AM EST
    I would doubt she's considering it. It's just a question on a poll.

    Parent
    I'm sure she's not considering it (none / 0) (#53)
    by cymro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:36:49 AM EST
    But I am not so sure if those supporters who keep raising the idea have ever considered the math. I suspect that most of them are actually McCain supporters trolling here to promote conflicts among Democrats. So I'm posting the math just in case anyone thinks it is a realistic possibility.

    Parent
    Perhaps they are the Dems from (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 03:52:46 AM EST
    under the bus . . . .

    I wouldn't write them off as McCain trolls. 39% of her supporters said they would stay home or vote McCain. A positive reaction to the question of her running Indie so soon after she dropped out (considering the circumstances) doesn't seem that off to me. Heck, if she ran Indie, I would vote for her.

    Parent

    I've even seen support (none / 0) (#64)
    by Grace on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 05:05:30 AM EST
    for Hillary as McCain's VP.  

    I know she would never do it, but that's a ticket that has potential since he probably wouldn't run for more than one term.  

    Parent

    OK. Voting for Hillary makes sense ... (none / 0) (#79)
    by cymro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 07:33:04 AM EST
    ... as a protest against the DNC, if she were an independent candidate. But (to me, at least) arguing that she should run does not make any sense. Because in the latter case, one has to take into account the consequences of that decision for Hillary herself. How can people who have supported her argue that she should commit political suicide?

    Parent
    I would never ask Hillary to do that. (none / 0) (#85)
    by samanthasmom on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:12:37 AM EST
    But Hillary started her political career as a "Goldwater Girl", and as the Democratic Party appears to be morphing itself into a party that looks more Republican, running with John McCain might not  be so far-fetched. I know it will never happen, but philosophically, it might not be such a stretch when Obama gets through the his "changes".

    Parent
    Clinton 3rd party numbers are incomplete. (none / 0) (#91)
    by wurman on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:37:40 AM EST
    If the polling shows Sen. Clinton at 30 percent of Dems, then . . .

    . . . what percentage of Independents would vote for her . . .

    . . . & what percentage of GOoPerz would cross-over & vote for her?

    And the 30 percent is present without her actually doing anything such as an exploratory committee, forming an organization, getting on the ballots in some states (too late for some, not possible for a few) & campaigning. Results from the primaries indicate she could easily raise those 30 points to at or above 50 percent.

    I don't think she'll consider it.  I'll bet that some of her biggest dollar donors have explored it.

    Parent

    50% of Dems AND Independents ... (none / 0) (#94)
    by cymro on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:48:23 AM EST
    ... would still be less than the Republicans voting for McCain.

    Parent
    It says a lot about (none / 0) (#32)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:21:53 AM EST
    people's unhappiness with the DNC and that most people prefer to vote FOR someone.

    I'd love to vote for Hillary Clinton but I don't think she's Independent material.  Too bad Clinton got stuck with such a lousy incarnation of the DNC.

    Parent

    Speaking of unhappiness with the DNC, (5.00 / 6) (#39)
    by FemB4dem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:36:39 AM EST
    I got an e-mail from David Plouffe today, via the DNC.  I had earlier instructed the DNC, by phone and e-mail, to remove me from their list and not to give me info to the BO campaign.  The DNC did it anyway.  If it were a corporation, I'd file a compalint with the FTC.  Anyone know if there's a law, or maybe an FEC requirment, about not sharing e-mail information?

    I spent time on the phone with a couple of very harried women at the DNC today, explaining my anger about this.  They took down my complaint and assured me they would pass it on.  I told one she sounded like she'd been dealing with a lot of these calls all day long -- she said they had been getting nothing but angry complaints for weeks now.

    Parent

    I set up my email (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by samanthasmom on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 09:19:54 AM EST
    to send auto-replies to anything coming into my mailbox from the Democrats or Obama saying that their mail was being spam-blocked.  I'm sure no one reads my auto-replies, but I don't have to deal with the email either. I vented once, but that just got me another email from "Howie' asking for money.  I decided to do something constructive with my feelings and have volunteered to work for the guy running against Kerry in the primary.  Every vote he gets will be like sticking a pin in a voodoo doll for me. He won't win, but Romney established himself in MA with a failed run against Kennedy so this may be a start.

    Parent
    It missed an obvious joke. (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 02:17:02 AM EST
    Many insurance companies cover Viagra(tm) prescriptions.

    So you could have an older gentleman come in with his full bottle of pills and ...

    Oh, I don't know - there are so many paths to choose from!  A bad Dole impersonation?  Have the man be the nurse's husband?  Have the man be the brunette's husband?  Go Jerry Springer and have the man be one's husband and the other's boyfriend?  Have the man be an internet salesman "Online drug sales - it's more than Viagra(tm) and Cialis(tm).  Get your BC pills safely and discretely online!".

    Better off supporting (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:04:44 AM EST
    Planned Parenthood than any politician.

    You can rely on Planned Parenthood.  Politicians?  Meh.

    Best not go there.... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:10:46 AM EST
    There's all manner of drek from "Obama supporters" including Kos himself agreeing that Hillary Clinton was no longer a Democrat on a front page post.

    To me that was a waaaay bigger insult than b1+ch.  

    Can't speak for Kos, et. al. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Newt on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:39:50 AM EST
    but it's clear that the millions of women who voted for Obama were not Hillary haters.  Most people did exactly what you did - look at the candidates and make a reasoned decision.

    The nasty commenters don't represent me any more than they represent the candidate they thought they were supporting.  My personal feeling is that people in the Obama camp got so thrilled with the thought that their candidate could win, they felt blindsided  when Hillary's campaign didn't just fade away.  Just as she and her supporters must have felt in February when Obama suddenly started winning.  Hillary had a comeback, and when they saw her as the enemy to their dreams, they went on the attack.  I think there's some of that same attack mentality here at TL, and it comes out as disdain for anyone who chose to trust Obama.  But we're not all Koolaid drinkers.  Most of us thought it over carefully and voted with the best interests of our country in mind.  When you get off the blogs and start following the Obama mailing lists, that's when you meet the intelligent and respectable people who voted for him.  Those people are why I stand by my claim that it's the progressive movement behind him that will create the change we need.


    Parent

    I'll pass on the mailing lists. (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 05:41:29 AM EST
    It's fun to see the propaganda and I can entertain myself by critiquing it and watching the memes and narratives emerge and evolve.

    Politics is basically a huge marketing campaign which means that most of it will be misdirection, misrepresentation and various other puffery with studded with some facts.  Hardly the stuff I'm looking for.

    Parent

    I don't mean Campaign marketing lists, (none / 0) (#71)
    by Newt on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 06:11:09 AM EST
    I'm talking about the grassroots lists that bring out discussions like the ones on this blog,  except their focus is for that specific group of people.

    Parent
    Tech question: Closed threads and Firefox (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by alsace on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 04:10:53 AM EST
    In Firefox (2.0.0.14), closed threads present as Flat, with no choice to change offered.  To read them nested (which is the only way to understand them) I must change to IE.  Any solutions for Firefox?  (There is no problem with open threads.)

    change your user options (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 10:39:25 AM EST
    to nested for overflow comments. It's an option there.

    Parent
    That did it. Thanks, Jeralyn (none / 0) (#98)
    by alsace on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 11:52:51 AM EST


    Parent
    Eek! (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Fabian on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 05:36:03 AM EST
    I've got to stop doing that!

    Visiting the big O, that is.  Obama's chances of winning Ohio were under discussion and commenters were claiming Obama by a landslide based on ponies and rainbows, apparently.  I used to find polls and statistics confusing and irritating because they only say What but not Why.  But thanks to Talk Left, I'm getting a better grip on polls, statistics, relevance and all that.  So if someone is claiming "Ohio by a landslide!", I want to see something to support that.  Two or three solid polls would be nice.

    Of course, there's the ironic "Obama doesn't need Ohio." electoral math.  True, Obama doesn't "need" Ohio's electoral votes to win.  But if Obama can't win over the dominant demographics in Ohio, he's going to be struggling in other states as well.  Some states are "battleground" states, but we should also consider certain states "bellwether" states.  I should watch the polls to see which state polls shift in concert with each other.  It should be easy enough to see statistical clusters.

    New Unity meme discovered.  You know how some people expect, nay demand Hillary and Bill to gift wrap and deliver her voters for Obama?  There was a commenter calling Strickland an unflattering name and insisting that Strickland single handedly gift wrap and deliver Ohio for Obama.

    Huh?  Certainly, a Democratic Governor should be expected to support and campaign for the Dem nominee - but holding a governor solely responsible for winning or losing a state is unrealistic, to put it politely.  Makes a great scapegoat though.  

    I find (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 11, 2008 at 05:48:11 AM EST
    it interesting that the Obama supporters are already making excuses for him losing in Nov.