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Thursday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:10:57 PM EST
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Thanks to Big Tent Democrat and TChris for their posts today -- I'm at work and won't be writing until tonight.

Here's an open thread for those of you with other topics on your mind. Please, as always, keep it civil.

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    Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)
    Top Chef (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:12:18 PM EST
    Who else is glad Lisa didn't win?

    Lisa has been nasty the entire time.... (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:25:55 PM EST
    Stephanie deserved her win....felt sorry for Richard though.

    Parent
    Am thrilled that Stephanie (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    did win.

    I had my fingers crossed that Lisa wouldn't.

    Did they drop Antonia because they wanted the drama factor that is Lisa?

    I sure hope not.

    Parent

    Eh, Antonia was kinda of crybaby (none / 0) (#173)
    by angie on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:56:39 PM EST
    people who volunteer to go on these shows and then start crying on DAY TWO about missing their family/kids kind of rub me the wrong way -- no one held a gun to your head, sister. Geesh.
    I'm glad as heck Lisa didn't win and am even more thrilled that "Mr. A Little Too Big For His Britches" got a smack down as well. Maybe if he hadn't waisted all that time making "tabasco ice balls" (which he ended up not using) he could have seasoned his food a little better. Plus, that was the THIRD time he made that "banana scallop" dessert and been oh-so-impressed with himself for doing so. Change the record, dude.
    BTW -- did I hear him correctly? He has a wife? Color me surprised.

    Parent
    Tabasco Ice Balls....three words you (none / 0) (#199)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:44:12 PM EST
    never thought you would see on TL... :)
    A wife, and a baby on the way...
    I liked Antonia...thought she had a better chance than always at the bottom three Lisa.

    Parent
    Me (none / 0) (#2)
    by Mary Mary on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    Though I thought she put out a good meal in the finale.

    Parent
    PLEASE (none / 0) (#3)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:15:22 PM EST
    Don't mention who won.  I am glad Lisa didn't but I didn't see the finale yet I taped it and am watching tonight.

    Parent
    Go Lakers. (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM EST


    Go Celtics (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:20:06 PM EST
    If we can come that close to winning in LA with Paul Pierce scoring 5 points I can't wait to see what happens tonight.

    Parent
    It's up to David Stern.... (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:30:00 PM EST
    which way is the fix in?

    Since he's so busy rigging things the least he could have done was rig the lottery for my Knicks again...lol.

    Parent

    Oh yea (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:05:00 PM EST
    Although I don't think the Knicks could win with all the refs in the league helping them.  No Offense :)

    Glad to hear you're not a Yankees fan though.

    Parent

    None taken.... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:06 PM EST
    I agree...it would take a lot more than the invisible hand of David Stern to make the Knicks competitive.

    In NY any serious fan isn't allowed to like both teams...I hate the Yankees as much as I hate the Braves, Phils, and Cardinals:)

    Parent

    Go Padres! (none / 0) (#21)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:31:25 PM EST
    I don't have a dog in the NBA hunt...

    Parent
    My thoughts exactly. Beat LA. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST


    Parent
    You guys are on my sh*t list... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:41:49 PM EST
    after your sweep of my Mets last week.  Just when I think they're turning it around they lose 5 in a row.

    What a frustrating club...at least there up 2-0 today in the 5th coming off last night's nail-biting win.  Please go the distance Johan!

    Parent

    Hey, Pads have been in the tank all (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:44:41 PM EST
    season.  Give us a break.

    Parent
    Doing better, though! (none / 0) (#42)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:49:38 PM EST
    I was at the last of the Padres' four in a row, 2-1 victories this last Saturday.

    Whatta game!

    With the NL West in the shape it's in right now, the Pads may still have their shot.

    Parent

    Good job last night. Those Dodgers (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    fans were going hoarse, to no avail.  

    Parent
    And Peavy's back today (none / 0) (#47)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:23 PM EST
    Fingers crossed!

    Am I the only one who misses Milton Bradley though, just a little bit? I know he's trouble on the hoof, but I can't help it, I have a soft spot for the guy.

    Parent

    I was at the game when the first base (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:57:29 PM EST
    umpire taunted Bradley until he cracked, going for the umpire's throat.  I miss him too.  Good baseball player.  

    Parent
    and he really wants to do well (none / 0) (#58)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:15 PM EST
    That umpire should have been suspended, not Bradley. It was shameful.

    Parent
    Sounds like... (none / 0) (#51)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:56:43 PM EST
    ...the Mets may be in the market for a new coach soon?

    Parent
    Not soon enough in my opinion.... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:04:10 PM EST
    I'm a big fan of the Lou Piniella/Billy Martin style of managing....Willie is way too laid back for my taste. My dream choice would be Wally Backman.

    But I think ownership will give him the rest of the year to get it turned around.

    Parent

    You can have Clint Hurdle... (none / 0) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:09:32 PM EST
    ...if you'd like.  I can't understand how you go from the WS to the bottom of the lousy NL Western division and still have a job.  

    Where's Earl Weaver when you need him?!?

    Parent

    No thanks Mile.... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:13:17 PM EST
    your Rockies clubhouse too eerily resembles a religous cult.

    I guess the Christian God abandoned your guys this year:)  

    Parent

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:17:36 PM EST
    ...that was truly sad.  Baseball for Jebus.  Spare me.  

    I guess fundies can't run a government or a baseball team.

    Parent

    Here's a good image for you Mets fans (none / 0) (#169)
    by scribe on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:39 PM EST
    "Universal sign for choking"

    0r, perhaps this one (you can use it for wallpaper, too!)

    It'll haunt them.

    That pile of old clothes along the side of the L.I.E.?  That was Mr. Met, Roadkill.

    After some Shea drunk took it on himself to beat up on Mr. Met.  Ahh, New Yawk.

    Parent

    How about Gasol and Odom? (none / 0) (#89)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:22 PM EST
    Those guys have disappeared in this series.  They dominated throughout the Western Conference playoffs.  So if they come back, it would be just as big as Pierce.

    But I'm not feeling too confident.  Tonight will be a big test.

    Parent

    Difference is (none / 0) (#97)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:33:34 PM EST
    Pierce has played well against the lakers, and Gasol and Odom have struggled against the Celtics.  I have more confidence that Pierce's game is more of a fluke than a trend.  KG has a way of making good players inneffective on offense.  That's why he's so important even when he's not shooting well.

    Tonight is huge though.

    Parent

    I'm afraid you're right (none / 0) (#142)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:24:53 PM EST
    It's the Celtics who are stopping Gasol and Odom, not that they are necessarily having bad games.  The Celtics have a great defense.  

    The Lakers have a great future though.  Bynum will be back next year and Gasol will move to power forward and Odom to small forward.

    You guys are definitely in a good position for this series.

    Parent

    This series is our only shot (none / 0) (#150)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    Lakers do have a better future ahead, I think if the Celtics don't win now, we won't win with this team.  The one thing I am optimistic about is KG does seem to be a great coach for the young players we do have and they are learning on the biggest stage possible.

    Parent
    Rivers (none / 0) (#165)
    by Paladin on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:49:54 PM EST
    Very impressed with him.  So far, he is out-coaching Jackson.  We should both feel pretty good regardless - both teams' futures looked very bleak at the beginning of the season.

    Good luck tonight, though I'll be cheering for the purple and gold.

    Parent

    More bad news from Zimbabwe (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:19:10 PM EST
    Treason charge on Opposition Party's #2
    Obama moved major DNC ops to Chicago. (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:19:47 PM EST
    Link via Politico

    Figured you'd all be happy about this ;-).

    Resistance is futile-Obama is THE Party now (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:23:11 PM EST


    Parent
    This is just wrong.... (5.00 / 5) (#136)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:14:17 PM EST
    Obama and DNC are "1"?

    What about all the other democrats in the DNC?

    Oh...I almost forgot...Obama is the "chosen" ONE.

    Each day, I get more sickened with this total hijacking.    I really did not see this coming...accusing the Clintons of racism, dirty tricks.   What a scam.

    I did not realize the lengths Obama people would go to steal the Presidency and the Democratic
    Party.

    Really sad.   The "hope" candidate has left me "hopeless".


    Parent

    I guess the New Politics (5.00 / 13) (#16)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:29:15 PM EST
    is Chicago Politics.

    Could the fix have been any more in for Obama? You can't tell me he and the DNC haven't been planning this for a long time.

    This makes me ill.

    Parent

    Thread up on myDD about this (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by otherlisa on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:32:38 PM EST
    and of course the Obamacans are praising this decision to the skies - it "saves money!" "shows he wants to win!"

    I don't see how I can vote for this man. I really don't.

    Parent

    For the short term it MAY save money (5.00 / 19) (#86)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:26:51 PM EST
    but it doesn't in the long term. Either Obama wins, in which case it makes the most sense for the DNC to be in Washington, DC, like it is now, or he loses, in which case it makes absolutely no sense for it to be in Chicago, hometown of the latest Democratic loser. Unless we want to make it like a perverse America's Cup, where the "trophy" DNC resides in the hometown of the losing Presidential candidate for four years until the next losing Democrat is selected.  

    In the short term it also allows a quiet purge of DNC staff who aren't willing or able to pick up and move to Chicago, to be replaced with Obama loyalists. Sounds like real old time politics, ala Tammany Hall. Everything old is new again!

    Parent

    Ding, ding, ding! We gave a winner! Last paragraph (5.00 / 12) (#96)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:33:08 PM EST
    is probably the real reason.

    A purge, required loyalty oaths, etc.

    Authortarian left, anyone?

    Parent

    And I suppose the blogger boyz (5.00 / 5) (#130)
    by pie on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:01:30 PM EST
    who don't go along will be shut out of info and juicy blog posts.

    Hmmmmmm.

    Parent

    From the bottom (5.00 / 4) (#179)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:04:41 PM EST
    of your pockets, up to Barack's cash register.

    Ka-CHING!

    Parent

    If Obama decided (4.83 / 12) (#25)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:36:07 PM EST
    to move the Party to DC tomorrow, they'd defend that too.

    They scare me. Obama scares me.

    I'm scared. Did I mention that?

    I've got to choose between a crazy neo-con and a crazy religio-con.

    Awesome.

    Parent

    And unbelievably, with all that is (5.00 / 6) (#79)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:14:11 PM EST
    said here, all we read about, all we know (and some we don't know yet), no one, absolutely no one who is in a position of authority, is saying or doing anything. Some here have written letters and emails and either none have been answered or responses have been negative...so, what do we do about this vile hate, seizing of our party and the outrage?

    Parent
    Stop voting (5.00 / 9) (#87)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:27:04 PM EST
    and sending the DNC money.  No votes and no $$$=death of any political endeavor.

    Parent
    "Save Money", My Aunt's Grandmother! (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by creeper on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:34:19 PM EST
    How much do you think it's going to cost them to make the move?

    Parent
    I have stopped, I stopped a long (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:27:16 PM EST
    time ago, altho' this is a start, will they notice, no. The hate has been allowed out of the bag and it is not going back in. This is becoming Bizarroland.

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:53:24 PM EST
    Could only wish it ran like Chicago! Mayor Daley has a very high approval rating even among the AA community and those tacky beer drinkin blue collar folks. Daley is too smart to throw the Democratic base under the bus.

    Parent
    Before everyone freaks out about this.... (1.66 / 3) (#84)
    by r15 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:24:42 PM EST
    There's actually a very good reason for this move. Obama doesn't want to repeat the mistakes of 2004, where Kerry had to fight the DNC at the same time he was trying to fight the Republicans.

    Parent
    Chicago (5.00 / 11) (#85)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:26:26 PM EST
    is synonymous for many to corruption.  If nothing else, it's great fodder for the RNC 527's to further peg Obama as a corrupt Chicago politician.

    Personally, Obama is creepy.  I don't like anything he's doing.

    Parent

    And, Obama (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:21:02 PM EST
    is synonymous with Chicago. His friends solidify that.

    Parent
    Sounds like the fighting with the DNC (5.00 / 6) (#100)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:34:16 PM EST
    was won by Kerry quite handily. That worked out well, didn't it? Well, one result of the hostile takeover will be that no one will be able to honestly blame Obama's loss on anyone but him and his campaign.

    Parent
    Where did you get the idea (none / 0) (#110)
    by r15 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:41:50 PM EST
    that the takeover was hostile?

    Dean and Obama have the same ideas about the 50 state strategy, etc.

    Parent

    Its a corporate term (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:56:25 PM EST
     The Obama campaign just won the proxy fight and is now busy subsuming the DNC under its banner.  

    Parent
    Hmm (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by lilburro on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:39:29 PM EST
    I don't know much at all about DNC organization and the way responsibility is delegated...but is it just me or does it seem like Howard Dean has no power at all?  Is the DNC always this mutable?  

    Parent
    And no guts either (5.00 / 6) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:45:10 PM EST
    If I were him I would have resigned a long time ago.

    Parent
    I have no idea (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:45:39 PM EST
    I don't remember reading about a take over of the DNC when Kerry was the nominee. Or any other time either actually. Of course that doesn't mean it didn't happen since I could just have forgotten, never read it or no one talked/wrote about it.

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge will post and compare this to past elections.

    Parent

    This is extreme. BC ran his CAMPAIGN in AK (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:48 PM EST
    but he didn't up and relocate the entire DNC. Some in the DNC may not even vote Obama.

    Parent
    Happy? (5.00 / 13) (#88)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:11 PM EST
    I've been laughing hysterically since I read the earlier post. Chicago, Illinois, where the former governor is about to be indicted.  Where political corruption is more common as bread.  Where Patrick Fitzgerald has had a field day (or, rather, a field decade). Where Tony Rezko, William Ayres, and Jeremiah Wright reside.  Where Trinity Church has a different anti-white, anti-American guest pastor ranting every other week.

    What a brilliant tactic to keep those perpetual Obama/Chicago scandals in the news!  Way to go Obama campaign!  

    Parent

    Obama camp says they can save money by using (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:28:30 PM EST
    DNC people. I thought there were supposed to be some ditinctions between the Party campaigning and the nominees, in that certain advertising cldn't be coordinated. But I know virtually nothing about campaign finance law. Does that kick in only if Federal matching funds are used by the candidate? Does this mean Obama means to self-finance?

    And, is anyone amazed that so many people will be asked to move to Chicago for the campaign--who will then need to be moved back to DC? Or is Obama going to move the DNC to Chicago?

    WOW!

    Lambert wrote earlier about a leveraged buyout or takeover.  If it's a takeover, it seems pretty friendly.

    Any thoughts about what is really going on here?

    Parent

    Move the DNC to Chicago? (5.00 / 6) (#115)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:45:19 PM EST
    Hell, he's going to move the US capitol to Chicago.  When Obama says change, he means CHANGE! And Washington, D.C. is so 19th and 20th century, don't ya know?

    Parent
    I wondered about this also (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:01 PM EST
    How does it work when the candidates have to fill out expense reports and filings. Can they have the DNC pay for a staff member who is also working for the Obama campaign? Donations to a candidate are restricted/capped, but you could also donate to the DNC then and it would pay for the same staffers. How is that legal?

    That article states:

    The move may also save the campaign money, as the Obama campaign can use DNC salaries and staff to pay for elements of its organizing campaign and avoid some of the duplication that has often dogged presidential efforts.


    Parent
    Easy (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:12:57 PM EST
    GOTV, which is a big part of Obama's GE strategy, can be covered by the DNC.

    Advertising... run it against the Repub candidate and Obama saves money.  Didn't the DNC already run a commercial?

    Research... using marketing data is also being used by the Obama campaign.  The DNC can cover this also as increasing voter turnout.

    Staffing... allocate the salaries.  The hours will be billed to the separate accounts.  If the DNC was not involved, the Obama campaign would pick up all of the cost.  They will micromanage the dollars to bill as much as possible to the DNC.

    Parent

    Never easy (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Step Beyond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:39:22 PM EST
    when things are regulated. I found this.

    Apparently they can work together but the DNC would have a spending limit in that work (around 19 million this year). Plus there are restrictions.

    Parent

    They'll be ver y happy together... (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:27 PM EST
    in the birthplace of Chicago machine politics...and away from the "seat of power" in DC.

    Parent
    Shades of Avignon (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Pol C on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:41 PM EST
    Does Obama plan to move the White House to Chicago, too?


    Parent
    I'm done. I can't vote for him (4.73 / 15) (#38)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:00 PM EST
    too extreme, too paranoid, to arrogant. All the signs are there - no room to disagree, no opponents allowed on the ballot.

    Moves immediately and radically to consolidate power underneath him.

    Parent

    This does it for me...and just when I (5.00 / 5) (#143)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:25:08 PM EST
    was having some second thoughts to give Obama a break and some time.

    Howard Dean undermined Hillary Clinton and cost her the nomination.

    I won't back Chicago-type politics.   Has the Democratic Party become the Soprano Party now?

    No more donations to DNC.  I may send in my card.
    I am outraged that Obama thinks he owns the party simply because he is the nominee.

    This gets worse every day.

    Parent

    He's not even the nominee yet (5.00 / 5) (#154)
    by catfish on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:36:59 PM EST
    Yes, it does get worse every day.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:29:56 PM EST
    Check out Michelle Malkin's strident defense!

    excerpt from Michelle's "thank you" (4.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:52:21 PM EST
    speech for Obama's successful 2004 Senate race...

    "Let me thank my pastor, Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. (ph) of Trinity United Church of Christ, fellow Trinitarians out there. Let me thank all the elected officials who have stood by me through thick and through thin but most of all let me thank my family."

    Parent

    She also thanked her mother-in-law, (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:18:49 PM EST
    Marian.

    Hard to figure out that one! Isn't a mother-in-law the mother of your spouse? In her case, Stanley?

    Parent

    GO Kucinich! (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:43:46 PM EST
    Kucinich:

    "Thirty days from now, if there is no action, I will be bringing the resolution up again, and I won't be the only one reading it. We'll come back and many of us will be reading this [on the House floor], and we'll come back with 60 articles, not 35."

    If worse comes to worse, there's always a write-in vote (just KIDDING ;-) )

    Is this the impeachment resolution? (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:07 PM EST
    Where are you seeing this?

    Parent
    FYI on the idiom... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:50:16 PM EST
    It's actually, "if worse comes to worst".

    Parent
    thanks (none / 0) (#50)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:55:42 PM EST
    I like accuracy.  I will take note.

    Parent
    Thanks for not freaking out (none / 0) (#57)
    by Artoo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:02 PM EST
    I like to pick nits and so that gets me into trouble sometimes. I never try to be snooty about it, but some people seem to think that wanting things to be correct automatically makes one snooty.

    But, if you're the kind of person who likes accuracy, then you may enjoy this book:

    Eats, Shoots, and Leaves

    Parent

    I like accuracy too. (none / 0) (#73)
    by davnee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:09:07 PM EST
    And sometimes it is hard to verify the correct form of some of these sayings.  The one that tortures me is to boot.  I always want to write "too boot," because too makes more sense to me in a phrase that means moreover or as well.

    Parent
    That is one of my favorites! (none / 0) (#78)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:14:06 PM EST


    Parent
    2 links (none / 0) (#49)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    Sorry, I thought I put the link in the first post.  At Brad Blog.

    Also, there are almost 22,000 who have signed the peition here.  Let's keep it going, let's show them how many folks out here support him.

    Parent

    Thanks, Lora. :-) (none / 0) (#56)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:59:44 PM EST
    Too bad Kucinich was running for President again this year - he could have focused all his efforts on impeachment. Maybe he could have infused some of his fellow Congresscritters with a little more spine.

    Parent
    I say.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:06:59 PM EST
    too bad nobody voted for him in the primaries.

    Parent
    Heh. Dennis (none / 0) (#81)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:16:55 PM EST
    had no shot, but he is just about as lefty as I am. :-)

    Parent
    You can tell... (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:40:50 PM EST
    who the good candidates are by their chances of success...the better the candidate, the less of a shot they have.

    And when the media never talks about a candidate, you know they are really really good.

    Parent

    Hee hee hee hee... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:44:18 PM EST
    you are the best Ron Paul supporter evah! :-)

    Parent
    Paul, Kucinich, Gravel.... (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:12:42 PM EST
    I'm easy...anybody but an entrenched, establishment Dem or Repub.

    Monkeywrench in '08!...:)

    Parent

    the Impeachment bill is another scam (none / 0) (#60)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:47 PM EST
    like the Dems "oil company" and "unemployment benefits" bills this week - with no teeth, but all designed to make Repubs look bad.

    Two months ago, Obama and Dems were railing against Hillary's gas tax suspension proposal. But they were on the Senate floor this week fully supporting a similar proposal while the Repubs used Obama's talking points against Hillary's proposal - "it won't work, the oil companies will just raise prices."

    Same with the unemployment benefits bill. Not all states are averaging 5.5% unemployment, but Dems want to pretend they do - to make Repubs look bad for voting against it.


    Parent

    Repubs look bad on their own (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Lora on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:36:06 PM EST
    No "scam" needed to make the Repubs look bad.  They do that all by themselves.  What's worse is to let them get away with it without even a whimper.  Kucinich is doing what a responsible elected representative ought to do.

    Parent
    my point is... (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:01:56 PM EST
    Kucinich's impeachment bill isn't leaving the House - especially since the Dem presidential nominee is the only Dem to state Bush and Cheney have not committed impeachable offenses.


    Parent
    Is there another time he said something like that (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Burned on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:45:25 PM EST
    Besides this one?
    Obama, a Harvard law school graduate and former lecturer on constitutional law at the University of Chicago, said impeachment should not be used as a standard political tool.
    "I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breaches, and intentional breaches of the president's authority," he said.

    USA Today

    Parent

    Is it just me ... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:47:56 PM EST
    or are the usual "I don't wanna be VP" denials a little stronger than in previous elections?

    Webb offered one on Tavis Smiley last night, and though it wasn't Shermanesque, it sounded convincing.

    Anything here or am I reading too much into the standard Veep posturing?

    like someone said (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:06:43 PM EST
    in a previous thread.  they are all afraid of being blamed for his losing.

    Parent
    Or perhaps they've seen the (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    light!

    Parent
    Or,,,,does not want to lose next reelection... (5.00 / 0) (#148)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:58 PM EST
    women have long memories.    If Hillary does not get asked to be VP, many females will hold a grudge.

    Parent
    Was wondering about this too (5.00 / 0) (#193)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:27:42 PM EST
    I don't remember a lot of VP refusals in the past, but then, I'm not sure I paid much attention to VP choices.

    I feel like usually everyone's all coy about it.

    Parent

    More info please (none / 0) (#46)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:07 PM EST
    What did Webb say? Even better, do you have a link to video or transcript?

    Parent
    I cannot find the exact quote ... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:11:48 PM EST
    Smiley's site only has a clip, not featuring this comment.

    But what he said was something like this, "Barack is a friend. I will do anything to help Barack.  But I'm not interested in being VP."

    That's not verbatim.  But it's very close to what he said.

    Parent

    yes, that's very close to Webb's remarks (none / 0) (#133)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:05:06 PM EST


    Parent
    He was on (none / 0) (#55)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:59:07 PM EST
    the Daily Show a couple of days ago and most certainly left the option open.

    Strickland is the only one who has categorically refused.

    Parent

    Webb said "no" to VP on Smiley (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:07:07 PM EST
    Listen here --
    http://tinyurl.com/6jqgc5


    Parent
    That clip doesn't ... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:15:24 PM EST
    feature the comment.

    Parent
    Rendell said unequivocally "NO!" (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:08 PM EST


    Parent
    Webb said "no" to VP on Smiley (none / 0) (#62)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:01:42 PM EST


    Parent
    I saw (none / 0) (#200)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:45:10 PM EST
    Bill Richardson say he wouldn't refuse it!

    Parent
    x (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by Mary Mary on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
    Yes they do, don't they. Although I denounce the item, I do consider this poetic justice after the hue and cry over the Clintons' supposed racism.

    Blast from the past! (5.00 / 7) (#48)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:53:30 PM EST
    "I am really starting to see Obama as someone who will rush to embrace every right-wing talking point against every Democratic constituencies."  - Kos, 12/31/07

    (Responding to Obama's numerous vitriolic remarks against trial lawyers.)

    http://tinyurl.com/3sjt5w

    Obama bashes trial lawyers - again.
    Jan. 14, 2008
    http://tinyurl.com/4tlyr2

    Flippity-flippity-flop (5.00 / 5) (#83)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM EST
    goes Kos!

    He was right about Obama then.

    Parent

    Hillary for VP (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
    I have had very mixed feellings on Hillary for VP until this thought occurred:
    Since Obama is looking to be a similar Prez as W, Hillary can take advantage of being the 4rth branch of gov't and run things behind the scenes from OVP. More of the same, right? Obama can complain about how being Prez is hard work and Hillary can wonk out (policy-wise).

    :)

    More on Kerry's primary challenger (5.00 / 7) (#93)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:22 PM EST
    from the Globe today.

    this line was funny:

    And now, by backing Obama over Clinton, Kerry faces an opponent. That's not the kind of change he wants voters to believe in.
    D'oh! :-) (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:34:36 PM EST


    Parent
    Don't you love it? (5.00 / 7) (#102)
    by miriam on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:35:23 PM EST
    Globe:  "FOR THE FIRST time in 24 years, Senator John Kerry faces a Democratic primary challenge. For that, he blames Hillary Clinton."

    Parent
    bwahahahahaha (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:39:17 PM EST
    ohh dear,
    -wipes tear from eye-
    thank you for that


    Parent
    IACF! (5.00 / 5) (#107)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:39:36 PM EST
    Perfect.

    Parent
    I guess (5.00 / 5) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:41:14 PM EST
    not voting the way your constituents want has consequences after all.
    who knew?
    I know you I am contributing to.

    Parent
    I dunno (3.00 / 0) (#117)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:26 PM EST
    I mean I like Obama but even I think Kerry is a tool.  I think this is more a refferendum on Kerry than Obama.  I doubt Kennedy would have this problem if he was healthy.

    Kerry is just a bad politician.  He says offensive stuff all the time, constantly suffering from foot in mouth disease.  I swear the only reason he's even an okay senator is that Kennedy keeps him in line when he can.

    Parent

    You never know (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:52:27 PM EST
    if old is the reason not to vote for qualified candidates this year, he might not be unbeatable.

    Parent
    I agree Kerry's always been a bit of a tool (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:03:45 PM EST
    but the support for Obama in spite of overwhelming support for Clinton in Mass. made it glaringly obvious at one point in time.

    Parent
    Hope all the Dems (5.00 / 5) (#112)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:43:18 PM EST
    that voted for Hillary vote for Kerry's challenger.  Kerry will lose by what, 23%?

    That's what he gets for endorsing agaisnt the will of the people of his state.  I guess he is blaming Hillary for being so dang popular in MA.

    Parent

    Plenty of Obama spporters will too (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:48:14 PM EST
    My whole family voted Obama and not one of us would vote for Kerry in a primary (g.e. is another story).

    Parent
    If Kerry loses (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:51:32 PM EST
    I could die happy.

    Parent
    I have already signed on to work on O'Reilly's (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST
    campaign. I can't promise you a win, but we'll do our best to make Kerry work a little harder this time. If anyone else lives in MA and would like to work for a new Democrat, his website is www.edoreilly.com.  Jeralyn, I know you said no recruiting, but this is asking Democrats to work for a Democrat.  It it's inappropriate, please delete.

    Parent
    bookmarked (none / 0) (#196)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:31:58 PM EST


    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#178)
    by Valhalla on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:04:32 PM EST
    Finally, real unity within the Democratic Party.

    Parent
    He needs to be more careful (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:50:06 PM EST
    her supporters could hold that against him.

    I am beginning to think that politicians don't really pay attention to politics. Are these people not watching what has been going on out in the media?


    Parent

    Of course he does (5.00 / 4) (#138)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton - the scapegoat of loser Dems everywhere.  She ought to have that printed on bumperstickers.

    Parent
    Good grief. (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:17:22 PM EST
    He deserves to lose in the primary simply due to blaming Hillary. Every day I'm more astounded at the stupidity that comes from the party elite.

    Parent
    a lot of (5.00 / 3) (#94)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:59 PM EST
    these attacks aren't obamas fault but they're there and its why I think he won't be able to unite the country like he told us he could.

    Uniter! (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:59 PM EST
    I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. He hasn't been able to unite his own party let alone the country.And if he doesn't do it soon, he won't have to worry about the country.

    Parent
    Just a thought.... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:03:50 PM EST
    maybe we don't want to be united?

    I think we like having our little teams and making a game out of it.

    Parent

    "Teams" (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:14:05 PM EST
    trivializes some very real differences, both between the various wings of each party and between the parties as a whole.  Refusing to unite with people who have different goals isn't playing a game, it's struggling for your own vision of the party/country to come to fruition.  That's the heart of democracy.

    Parent
    They are his fault (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:08:19 PM EST
    He set the mood of the campaign, and it was petty, prejudice, and whiney.

    Parent
    For music fans (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by txpolitico67 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:32:26 PM EST
    Verve Remixed Volume 4 just came out recently.  This remix project takes old standards ("Cry Me A River by Dinah Washington) and new, cool dj's and producers remix them with an electronic edge.  I love this kind of fusion of old meets new.

    If you happen to check it out, Nina Simone and Dinah's versions are the best remixes.  Verve Remix Vol 3 is the best of the four.

    And for the purists, Verve puts out the "unRemixed", rather, the original versions of all these greats.  I have all those too.  The originals are the best, but the remixes are a fresh twist on superlative standards.

    More on the DNC move to Chicago, rumor has it (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by carmel on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:34:11 PM EST
    that Obama and Dean are in negotiations to cancel three days of the democratic convention to save money, with just one, fun filled glory be to Obama night for all of his adoring worshipers. Obama will claim his victory without ever having a vote taken on the floor, since he plans on having Hillary's name removed from the ballot - no vote needed. What a campaigner!

    Alice Palmer redux n/t (5.00 / 5) (#105)
    by tree on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:37:03 PM EST


    Parent
    I honestly don't believe it (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:43:32 PM EST
    however, if it were true, it would be paranoia at its finest.

    I honestly don't think "the One(tm)" would give up his opportunity to give his MLKII nomination speech on the same date as the 25th anniversary of the "MLK I have a dream" speech, do you?

    Parent

    And, the changes he is promising (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:19 PM EST
    would that be converting our democracy to a less open form of government?

    I think Dean is hoping for the VP spot.


    Parent

    I think this has to do with not committing (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by MarkL on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:35 PM EST
    to a platform, so that when Obama governs in his full Republican glory, there will be fewer promises holding him back.

    Parent
    You think we're coming into a change election (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Pegasus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:19:22 PM EST
    without a platform??

    I'm getting a distinct sense of unreality.  It's making me woozy.

    Parent

    Yes, when I read that we're going into a (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by MarkL on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:28:00 PM EST
    "change election", I get woozy too.
    Of course, Obama is only about saying the word change, so there's not much contradiction.


    Parent
    Heh. (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:46:31 PM EST
    This old recycled crap is all they've got on Bill and Hill.

    Yawn.

    And, you have to wonder about the timing (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Aqua Blue on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:40:40 PM EST
    of this old crap being recirculated....like Vanity Fair on Clinton.    

    I am suspcious of the Obama camp being behind the timing because they don't want to ask Hilary to be VP.    

    Parent

    They must be really desperate (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:45:14 PM EST
    This isn't just old news, it was thought to be just a bunch of ridiculous cr@p when it was new.

    Paula and her plastic surgery rewards, on to become Tonya Harding's boxing foe, then gone from the limelight. Gennifer, with her "Billie" interviews couldn't even get the facelift prize.


    Parent

    and for $2.99 (5.00 / 6) (#120)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:47:17 PM EST
    they will come to your house and tell you.

    I rather have Bill come over (5.00 / 0) (#201)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:47:14 PM EST
    and tell me himself. 8^)

    Parent
    And as I heard Paula say on Fox (none / 0) (#197)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:32:39 PM EST
    why not do this and make money, people are always asking her about it anyway (I guess she doesn't use her married name).

    Parent
    Did anyone else but me miss (5.00 / 6) (#129)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:00:09 PM EST
    the fact that the entire contigent of NY State Congresspeople/superdelegates all flipped for Obama as of last Saturday, apparently in one big block? Headead by Charlie Rangel -- you know, the person who pushed HRC to run for president in the first place.

    I had no clue and it took a lot of googling to find it -- and then it only seemed to be reported in the Albany Times-Union. I'm pretty stunned.

    The only good thing is that this gives me an excuse not to vote for my own lamebrained Congressmoron, Steve Israel, who had the temerity to tell my father to his face that he knew there were WMDs in Iraq because he had "special information" the public did not. Sadly, I think he's running unopposed.

    It's pathetic that because Pelosi snapped her fingers, the entire NY Congress delegation just caved in without even a whimper. Guess I'll be saving a lot of money by not supporting any of them when they come up for re-election. Feh!

    I caught it. P!ssed me off (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by nycstray on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:24:41 PM EST
    If I thought Hillary asked them to, I would be fine, but since Charlie had been shooting off his mouth before hand and didn't want to wait . . .

    I just realized, no need to vote down ticket! lol!~

    Parent

    Just read about it (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by stillife on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:33:39 PM EST
    online somewhere.  I didn't see it in the news, either.  I'm disappointed, but not surprised.  The thing is, I like my Congressman, Ed Towns, and he stuck with Hillary despite the fact that he's AA and he got flak from many of his AA constituents.

    I had a feeling something might be in the air when my coworker rode in the elevator with some of the people from Towns' office (he has an office on our floor) the morning after Obama's self-nomination speech.  They were all going on about how inspiring he was and what a b*tch Hillary was for not immediately conceding.  They looked at my friend expectantly, apparently assuming she'd join in the love fest but she just turned away.  (She's a Hillary supporter).  She came into work and said to me, "I thought Congressman Towns was supporting Hillary!"  

    Parent

    The Loyalty Factor - Gallup (5.00 / 2) (#139)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:21:58 PM EST
    Repubs - 95% Bush04

    McCain - 85%
    Obama - 10%

    Dems - 93% Kerry04

    Obama - 78%
    McCain - 14%

    I Read On One MSM Site (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by creeper on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:31:37 PM EST
    that the night he claimed the majority Michelle referred to Barack  as "baby's daddy."

    Somehow, neither of these references strike me as a positive contribution to the campaign.

    I'm not for one second defending Faux.  I just don't like the overall level of discourse.

    Heh - Huckabee joins Fox News (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:36:14 PM EST
    as a political contributor...

    Peter Pace is getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom...

    Lou Dobbs is thinking of running for governor of New Jersey...

    Scalia thinks the SCOTUS habeas decision means more Americans will be killed...

    and the Army's Public Affairs Office is going with the Obama = Surrender meme...

    All via Think Progress

    Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    Don't know whether to laugh or cry (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:40:14 PM EST
    when in doubt, laugh.

    Parent
    Gotta share this (5.00 / 4) (#166)
    by abfabdem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:50:47 PM EST
    from a smart young woman who expresses what many of us have been feeling:

    http://www.partizane.com/?p=363

    That's RegencyG (5.00 / 4) (#175)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:59:20 PM EST
    And when you're reading this, remember, she's only 18.

    Wow.  It blew me away.

    Parent

    Tweety does it again (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:57:40 PM EST
    Just when you think he couldn't go any lower:

    CHRIS MATTHEWS: But in a political [unintelligible], women are low-hanging fruit, though, in the terms of politics.

    TODD: Correct.

    MATTHEWS: You can reach up and say, "I'm pro-choice, he's not."

    And thanks to Kate Harding at shakesville, Obama supporter, for speaking out.  

    Chris is just bitter (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:08:14 PM EST
    because he has no fruit.

    Parent
    women are low-hanging fruit (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:14:36 PM EST
    and Tweety is a bottom feeding moron

    Parent
    That post is excellent. (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:27:58 PM EST
    Thanks for pointing it out.

    Golly gee, why isn't the Democratic Party united? Maybe because this is EXACTLY how Obama treats us. Threaten us with Roe v. Wade and we will fall into his basket.

    Barf.

    Parent

    Obama is post-turtle (4.60 / 10) (#4)
    by waldenpond on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:17:59 PM EST
    post-partisan, post-racial, but post-turtle?

    Here is a joke sent to me:

    Hopefully this will lighten your day, courtesy of our friends over at LiberalRapture.com.

    The Post Turtle

    While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher, whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Obama and his bid to be our President. The old rancher said,

    "Well, ya know, Obama is a 'post turtle'."

    Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was. The old rancher said,

     "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle."

    The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain.

    "You know he didn't get up there by himself. he doesn't belong up there, he doesn't know what to do while he is up there, and you just wonder what kind of a dumb ass put him up there to begin with."

    A conservative friend of mine (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by LoisInCo on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:21:28 PM EST
    has taken to calling her 8 children "post uterus citizens" when she talks about Obama.

    Parent
    My mom sent me this one yesterday. (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by davnee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:42:37 PM EST
    Though I had seen it before.  She got it from her mailing list of assorted Republican lady friends.  The anti-Obama e-mails are in full circulation.  P.S. My Republican mom and some of these other R ladies in her group had enthusiastically voted HRC in the primary.  Just sayin'.

    Parent
    I remember (4.50 / 2) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:29:50 PM EST
    that same joke being cycled around about W.

    Parent
    The problem (3.28 / 7) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:33:30 PM EST
    is that those cries won't even work on Dems or independents any more either. They only work with Obama supporters. Obama and his campaign have played the race card so many times it's turned into a joke.

    BTW, I don't see anything racist about that screen shot. Didn't Michelle herself talk about Obama has the daddy of her babies?

    GathDem - Check out Steve M's (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:37:09 PM EST
    link above. It was definitely racist of Fox and they know it. But, they are defending it anyway - and quite hilariously!

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:38:27 PM EST
    but it seems that everything has been deemed racist so much that the meter is gone.

    Parent
    FYI (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:40:13 PM EST
    Baby Mama is a very specific term that refers to the unmarried mother of someone's children.  That's why it's offensive.  It is not the same when you change the words around or insert pronouns.

    Parent
    Okay (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:39:21 PM EST
    thanks for the explanation.

    Parent
    Are you serious? (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:57:44 PM EST
    You see nothing racial about Fox putting something like that on the scrawl?

    Are you so anti-Obama that anything that is anti-Obama acceptable?

    Malkin's "Well Michele used the phrase too!" defense  is so intellectually dishonest I don't even know where to begin.

    Parent

    It has (none / 0) (#160)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:43:50 PM EST
    nothing to do with being "anti Obama" it's just that literally everything has been deemed racist by the Obama campaign or his supporters. Whole swathes of voters have been called racists simply because they didn't vote for him in the primary. This is why something that could be overtly racist will now fall on many deaf ears. People simply have had enough of this kind of stuff.

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:31:02 PM EST
    if this were an isolated instance you might have a point, but a certain strident sector of the right has been dealing in barely-under-the-wire slurs at least since Radio Free Wingnut kicked into high gear  in the ninties.

    Your observation is more than a little ahistorical, IMO.

    Parent

    Also context (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:35:44 PM EST
    is everything. Jewish comics can make ironic wisecracks about the holocaust, but generally gentiles respect the unspoken rule that that isnt their domain.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:47:20 PM EST
    I certainly know that this is the stock in trade of lots of Fox journalists but the way Obama has run in the Dem primary he has rendered these kind of screams ineffectual. I'm no fan of Malkin. I think she's an idiot but if this is so bad then why didn't Obama take on Bill O'reilly when he talked about Michelle?

    Parent
    North Carolina (3.00 / 2) (#40)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:48:37 PM EST
    my true home state, is purple.

    Fox just can't help themselves (none / 0) (#14)
    by flyerhawk on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:26:28 PM EST
    Total race baiters.

    How (none / 0) (#15)
    by Claw on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:26:49 PM EST
    About "terrorist fist jab?"  At least that idiot lost her show.

    Don't get lost in outrage ... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:00:28 PM EST
    over these stories.  They're designed to waste our time and distract us.

    Parent
    thinking fake outrage....were these people (5.00 / 8) (#98)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 02:33:35 PM EST
    outraged over the obama camp's race-baiting or did they rise up to defend the Clintons when they were called racists....don't think so.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:48:48 PM EST
    This is the problem that Obama and his supporters have largely brought on themselves. If they only pointed out racism where it is overt then they would get traction on some of these things.

    Parent
    I'm impressed (none / 0) (#176)
    by Claw on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:59:36 PM EST
    at your ability to diagnose "the problem" Obama supporters have, and I am not lost in outrage.  I'm merely pointing out that insinuating a Presidential nominee is using terrorist hand gestures is very, very inappropriate.  Also, no one said anything about racism.  I think this was one of those "secret muslim" smears.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:05:33 PM EST
    I agree about the hand gestures thing. It is inappropriate for sure but is it racist? I wouldn't call it racist but skanky to say such a thing. Okay, well you do have a point when you use the "secret muslim" perspective. That certainly does make sense.

    Parent
    "terrorist fist jab" (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by CST on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:12:35 PM EST
    Was almost funny in it's offensiveness because it was so stupid.  I mean, can anyone picture Osama Bin Laden giving someone dap?  I expected them to go for gang references and stupid race-baiting crap like that.  This was so rediculous it just made me laugh.

    Parent
    She lost her job?!!!!!!!!! (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:30:48 PM EST
    But, Matthews, Olbermann, and all the loose tongued sexists are still going strong?

    What does that tell you?

    Parent

    That (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Claw on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:53:59 PM EST
    None of them ever called Clinton a terrorist...

    Parent
    Neither did this reporter (4.00 / 4) (#187)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 04:15:22 PM EST
    call the Obama's terrorists. Some really inappropriate comments are simply nothing more that inapproporate comments. It was one of several questions for why a fist bump instead of a hug? When I saw the gesture, my first thought was, "they really do see this as a game".

    Clinton was accused of being involved in the Bhutto assassination, she's been accused of wishing death on Obama both through assassination and poisoning his food. Nothing was considered too much or over-the-top against Clinton by the media.

    Parent

    I'm a Paul fan..... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 01:57:07 PM EST
    and we are not that crazy:)

    Some new info on the Kenya elections... (none / 0) (#170)
    by SunnyLC on Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:51:57 PM EST
    Disruption by "youths"

    Some info on the Kenyan elections...

    "Latest Update on Kenya Elections: Odinga's Party Wins 3 Seats of 5; UPDATED 1X"
    http://tinyurl.com/48abd6

    There are two more seats that need to be contested. Two ministers from Odinga's ODM were killed in a crash a couple of days ago...so, Odinga may in the future come out on top! I'll be watching this...

    Mobs of youths had to be dispersed as the polls opened...whether they are Odinga supporters or not is unclear...

    Climate (none / 0) (#204)
    by nellre on Fri Jun 13, 2008 at 12:34:56 AM EST
    Anybody noticing the weather lately?
    I consider the neglect of this issue by our government, and the attacks on Gore for his Nobel prize winning work on this subject crimes. Crimes that have cost lives.

    Thursday Afternoon Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)