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Blogcloggers : Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:02:37 PM EST
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Courtesy of TL reader Cream City, we have a new name for the recent influx of visitors who are clogging up the threads with multiple comments in an attempt to dominate, hijack or otherwise disrupt the conversation: Blogcloggers.

Blogcloggers are not welcome here. New users are limited to 10 comments in 24 hours and they must abide by our comment rules. More below, but if you don't like the policy, as the song says, Get Over It.

Drive-by snipers and blogcloggers will be erased, so don't waste your time. Once banned, they cannot come back under another name.

Regular readers should ignore them and point them out by name as a site violator.

This is an open thread.

Comments now closed.

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    Blogcloggers : Open Thread | 232 comments (232 topical)
    Blogcloggers? Cream City is awesome! (5.00 / 8) (#1)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:04:33 PM EST


    <blush> Nah. Well, yeh -- (5.00 / 19) (#9)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:57 PM EST
    my city from which I took my screen name, and where I've been out and about for hours along our lovely Great Lake and shopping and bopping in our newest reborn neighborhood, and stopping for our home-brewed root beer and cream soda here -- yeh, my city is awesome.  But not me.  

    Awesome?  That would be our -- wait for it, a public relations term -- "blogfloggers" here, TL/Jeralyn and BTD/Armando.

    TalkLeft is the best blog there is.  Flog it, folks!

    Parent

    I predict (5.00 / 8) (#18)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST
    "blogclogging" is going big. You've coined a good one.

    Parent
    Copyright it, girl. (5.00 / 5) (#78)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:21 PM EST


    Parent
    trademark (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:00 PM EST
    doncha think? can't © a title

    Parent
    way to go Cream great name for them (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by athyrio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:08:36 PM EST
    and it ain't over till the fat lady sings and my old mare in the pasture can't sing lol.....

    DNC RBC mbr David McDonald now 'out' for Obama (5.00 / 13) (#5)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:31 PM EST
    Statement here.

    IMO, feigned neutrality is worse than no neutrality at all.

    Obamans were a majority of RBC members (5.00 / 10) (#24)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:09 PM EST
    by far, according to a very knowledgeable observer there who just sent her account to longtime admirers of her work as an activist in the modern women's movement and as its chronicler.  Her coverage of conventions from a political scientist's and feminist's viewpoint has been so helpful to have, over the years.  

    So her coverage of the RBC meeting is another useful read, and Jo Freeman will have her account of the RBC meeting up on her website soon, she says.  But you can go to it now to read about her books, to find her earlier reportage and analyses, etc., to see a great collection of feminist political memorabilia, and then bookmark that site for later -- and see also this site (and surf it for other reads by women authors of a certain age:-).

    Together with the fine live-blogging at the meeting site by this site's BackFromOhio as well as from the tv screen by TL and BTD, there is an interesting body of contemporaneous knowledge being built about the day that the Dem Party died.  Or at least, the day it lost its soul.  And without that, why belong to the Dems rather than the soulless GOP?  That's where I am now.  I will be fascinated to see where Freeman and others arrive.

     

    Parent

    Soul was gone long ago (5.00 / 16) (#46)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:36:45 PM EST
    just had the wake on Saturday and the burial is scheduled for November.

    Parent
    What I haven't read (5.00 / 2) (#255)
    by Redshoes on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:01:58 PM EST
    I'm sure someone else has covered this but since it is the Kennedy-Kerry-Dodd faction of the party that is intent on moving the party away from the working and diminishing middle-classes (its historic base) could it be that they know that we as a nation have turned a corner is this is the way to ensure the privileged of the party retain some power as the nation further concentrates between those who have and those who drone for those who have?  What's interesting to me particularly about the Massachusetts-Chicago connection is that by hand-picking BHO have they setup another puppet -- albeit a more articulate one than Bush but still very much dependent on TPTB?  

    I'm underwhelmed by BHO leadership.  I think BHO's handling of the speeches that has emerged from Trinity's pulpit shows he's tone deaf and missing an essential quality.  It's not so much that American's want someone to drink a beer with but they do want a President who shares their value --  and these tapes should offend.  Just heard Bill Clinton's remarks and concur.  VF may paint him as an angry old man but it's justified here.

    Quote:  "It's part of the national media's attempt to nail Hillary for Obama. It's the most biased press coverage in history. It's another way of helping Obama. They had all these people standing up in this church cheering, calling Hillary a white racist, and he didn't do anything about it. The first day he said `Ah, ah, ah well.' Because that's what they do- he gets other people to slime her. So then they saw the movie, they thought this is a great ad for John McCain -- maybe I better quit the church. It's all politics. It's all about the bias of the media for Obama. Don't think anything about it"  End Quote

    Disclaimer: former John & Elizabeth Edwards support, now in the tank for Hill & Bill but will vote for democratic nominee in the fall.

    Parent

    Pushing Casey for Congress (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:44 PM EST
    started me seriously wondering whether to stay a Dem, when the party pushes -- and not in a Southern state -- such a faux Dem who actively stands against some of the party's most distinctive core principles.  But even before that, some of my own Senator Feingold's votes for Bush nominees caused me serious concern, if Feingold is supposed to be the "progressive" standard-bearer in the Dem party.  And, of course, the behavior of Dem Party leaders throughout the Bush tenure and the Iraq War has been pathetic.

    But then, my other Senator, Kohl, had me throwing things at the tv screen 'way back in 1992, when he and other Dems did nothing, nothing to stop the demeaning of Dr. Anita Hill.  It was but prologue for what we have seen now, 16 years later.  The old boyz have not learned any new tricks, while the world -- and the majority of the party, women -- apparently have passed them by, and now we know it.

    So the Dem Party has been on a long, slow slide into "petty evil," as it has been termed so well -- the sort of incremental selling of the soul that cannot be seen clearly until too late.  

    Parent

    Cream City, you can tell me if I'm overreacting (5.00 / 9) (#88)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:30 PM EST
    Saturday when they kept mentioning that James Roosevelt is FDR's grandson - would it have killed someone to mention that he is Eleanor's grandson too?

    Seemed to me it would have been appropriate given her place in the party, and that Hillary is a former first lady and Eleanor is her idol.

    if the party lost its soul it may have been in the disappearring of Eleanor Roosevelt.

    Parent

    I thought exactly the same thing (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:10:46 PM EST
    and posted a paean to ER here in a comment that day -- to the woman whom Clinton (and I) holds as a role model not only in politics but in so much in life.  Have you read the Blanche Wiesen Cook bios?  Even before those, I read some ER bio (as well as her autobios) that endeared her to me forever.  So years ago, when Clinton talked about ER, I understood her admiration entirely -- and Clinton's perceptive read of ER and of history made me admire Clinton more.

    Parent
    Cream, you work in academia (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:17:37 PM EST
    Someone needs to do some kind of history of the women who united around Hillary.  Either oral or written.  Maybe we can all start a web page, where we control the content, and receive submissions.  A living history.  Either videos, posts, or audio.  That would be so cool.  

    Parent
    I think you can bet on it (5.00 / 1) (#234)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:46:56 PM EST
    and I think one may already be in the writing, as a book about the campaign is underway by a fine woman scholar whom I heard speak a few months ago, and she seemed quite savvy to the misogyny we have witnessed even before it got so much worse.  However, whether she can or will be equipped to pull together accounts from across the country is a question.  

    Your idea is, therefore, terrific to create a motherlode (:-) for scholars -- as similar use of websites has meant creation of contemporaneous records of the social history of the destruction of New Orleans, for example.  It would be good to see if one of the new groups that have sprung up, such as PUMA, WomenUnited, etc., could set up such a site, one site, to send participants to write their accounts.  (Not just blog-style comments but in-depth accounts.)  And/or someone like Jo Freeman (see links above) and the senior women writers might be interested.  

    But again, something already may be in the works, and I may know more when I get to some conferences soon this summer.  You can bet I'll post about if if I hear anything along these lines, Stellaa.  

    Parent

    I wonder how Eleanor would feel (5.00 / 1) (#260)
    by Boston Boomer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:08:06 PM EST
    about her grandson being head of a huge HMO (Tufts Health Plan) and supporting a candidate like Obama who has already made sure there will be no universal health care in the the US?  Not to mention a candidate with two advisors who are pushing for privatization of social security.


    Parent
    Good to know (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:20:37 PM EST
    Sorry I missed your post on the subject.  I was in and out all day and missed a lot.

    I have not read the Blanche Wiesen Cook bios.  I just looked them up on Amazon and I'll put them on my (too long) list. I have only read one or two about ER - maybe it was that "Eleanor and Franklin" that was so popular a while back, and then another one on Eleanor.  Such a fascinating, caring, effective person, easy to see where Hillary gets some inspiration for her strength.

    Parent

    Enjoy! And I think the first I read (none / 0) (#221)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:36:19 PM EST
    might have been Lash's Eleanor and Franklin -- it's so good that it got me started, as his love and admiration for his mentor ER came through but without biasing his work, I thought.  That made it one of those good reads I've read again.

    Parent
    Great (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by tek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:53:36 PM EST
    post.  Very informative.

    Parent
    cx: Hill-Thomas hearings in 1991 (5.00 / 6) (#140)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:45 PM EST
    sorry for typo.  Of course, it's so easy to recall the chronology correctly, since the answer to our anger than was the Dems' much-vaunted "Year of the Woman" in 1992.  Well, it got us our first state ever to have two woman Senators at the same time -- and they're still there, the great Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein -- but other than that . . . pffft.

    In my state, that's when Feingold got elected . . . but five women trying for Congress went down the tubes, again, in a state where women had been running for Congress since 1924 -- but I stuck with it and fought for better in the last state with a woman in Congress, at last, in 1999.  But not with the help of the Dem boyz.  Still, they behaved themselves in public pretty well.

    Now, after 16 years since the Hill-Thomas hearings, and with what we've seen this year in a new low even for Dem, it's past time to leave this abusive political relationship.  And it's been coming on for so long that I won't even need to read books with titles like Women Who Donate Too Much.


    Parent

    "Women who donate too much.." (5.00 / 3) (#165)
    by Radiowalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:02 PM EST
    Cream City, this is beyond superb.

    Please be advised of the following:

    (1) You are wonderful!
    (2) I believe Anita.
    (3) Feingold voted Ashcroft out of the Judiciary Committe, thus singlehandedly allowing for his confirmation by the senate (no doubt you are aware of this)
    (4) I registered as an independent today.

    Here's a woman who won't be donating until the Democratic Party totally revises its primary election procedures.

    Over and out.

    Parent

    Feingold's Ashcroft vote is when (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:22:46 PM EST
    my spouse and I stopped donating to him -- and raised heck about it with him in a series of calls and letters.  The replies were underwhelming.  I know, I know, he's a progressive god to a lot of people.  But we know how he got into office in the first place.  And he doesn't bring anything much back to Wisconsin, where we're so low on the list for payback considering how highly taxed we are and how our economy and thus educational system have  been suffering since the Rustbelt '80s.

    Still, if he wasn't that good for the state, for us it was like our beloved Proxmire and Nelson as being good for the country.  But then came the Ashcroft vote, and it hasn't been the same since.

    Parent

    On my to do list: (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:04 PM EST
    Figure out how to stop the automatic monthly DNC donations I foolishly agreed to by phone last year. It's not a lot, but I'm done.  That money can be better donated elsewhere.

    Parent
    A simple phone call (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by suisser on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:37:16 PM EST
    should do it. That's how I divorced NPR, and I've felt lighter ever since   ;-)

    Parent
    I have it on good authority (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:42 PM EST
    that the Saturday decision was actually made via conference call last Wednesday night, in an increasingly flagrant violation of the sunshine laws of the RBC.

    Any interested parties can email me - e l e a n o r a _ 2 0 0 8 @ y a h 0 0 . c o m

    Parent

    Eleanor A (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:00:14 PM EST
    underscore must be removed from your addy, right? Since you posted it on your bio, the underscore is to protect from spamspiders, right?

    (doesn't go thru as posted for me)

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#135)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:52 PM EST
    Leave the underscore in.  Just take out the spaces (and change the zeroes to o's).

    Parent
    aha (none / 0) (#158)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:12:34 PM EST
    thanks....din't notice the zero/o's thang.

    Parent
    I was there, too. (5.00 / 7) (#111)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:02 PM EST
    I was there, too. (I blogged about it over at correntewire.) It's one thing to see the bullying on the blogs, it was different thing, indeed, to experience it in person.

    Remember when Hillary was on Jon Stewart a few months ago? She was on via satellite from TX. She invited Jon Stewart to join her on the trail where he could make fun of her in person. He demurred, commenting that it's much harder to mock someone in person when you can actually see that they are a human being. Well, the Obama supporters that I encountered had no such reservations.

    Parent

    That's depressing. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:09 PM EST


    Parent
    that would be a good title for (5.00 / 0) (#188)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:22:01 PM EST
    a book about all this.

    Parent
    Two of the members of the RBC (4.88 / 9) (#43)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:15 PM EST
    were on Lou Dobbs tonight and he was raking them over the coals for their disenfranchisment of voters, considering that this year is the closest election of all time. They punted and said they did the best they could!!! Wasn't the best for me!!

    Parent
    I Saw That (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:39:36 PM EST
    And 'loved' how the guy/Obama supporter hee-hawed over the question of why the revotes didn't take place?

    Mame Reiley/Clinton supporter was being diplomatic, but she saved the day when she said she would have liked a revote to take place.

    I've never liked Lou Dobbs, but during this season, he's been one of the few I can tolerate watching all the way through.

    Parent

    he can heehaw all he likes and be (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:25:03 PM EST
    smug, however as the song says the "day of reckoning will come".

    Parent
    Did you hear when he read an email (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:46 PM EST
    from a viewer saying they were going indie and they wanted Hillary to run indie, Lou said he had received many that said the same?

    Parent
    Don't go Indie, go PUMA. Riverdaughter has a (5.00 / 5) (#115)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:58:02 PM EST
    call out to join the PUMA party. Do it. You'll feel better.  

    I'd link to the post but I am am computer illiterate. I've got no blognoggin!

    Parent

    Here ya go. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:35 PM EST
    PUMA

    Parent
    BTW (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:25 PM EST
    I recommend to everyone that they read Iphie's piece at Corrente.  Could you post a link Iphie?

    Parent
    Two posts are (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by Iphie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:17:52 PM EST
    here and here.

    Parent
    Nice Posts (none / 0) (#250)
    by Jane in CA on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:24 PM EST
    I very much enjoyed reading them. Thank you.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:54 PM EST
    That's quite a post by Iphie.

    I asked my wife, "Are you guys ever going to let us elect a man again?"  I think she is taking it under advisement.

    Parent

    Oh, I'm glad you linked that. I loved reading the (none / 0) (#196)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    comments as much as the post.

    Parent
    Blognogging! Love it. (5.00 / 4) (#160)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:12 PM EST
    And after our nightly rest, when we get up and don our regular gear -- sweats, p.j.'s, whatever -- for getting onto TL, are we . . . blogtogging? :-)

    Parent
    HA! How about jumping from blog to blog? (5.00 / 4) (#171)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:16:15 PM EST
    Blogfrogging!

    Parent
    email lou dobbs about it. he'll give it (5.00 / 0) (#206)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:46 PM EST
    air time. that's scare the dnc.

    Parent
    My Mama told me that was cheatin' (5.00 / 17) (#65)
    by OxyCon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:21 PM EST
    Goin' on CNN and acting like you are neutral the whole time you are advocating for your candidate is cheatin' too!

    Parent
    My mama told me it was cheating (5.00 / 11) (#73)
    by angie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:38 PM EST
    to take things you didn't earn, too -- and I'll put my mama up against Brazile's any day of the week.

    Parent
    Hey, it was breaking news today (5.00 / 5) (#68)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:44:05 PM EST
    that Jim Clyborn came out today for...okay, wait for it....tada!!!! Obama! And it said, Breaking News.

    Parent
    I like your new sig n/t (none / 0) (#123)
    by Coldblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Wierd (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:32 PM EST
    I just thought, wow, it's time to go watch Keith!

    ...but I don't watch Keith anymore.  

    The brain circuits just don't always work properly I guess.  The old habits die hard.

    I don't watch KO anymore but (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:27:18 PM EST
    caught the opening tonight and he said, "one more day 'till our nightmare is over."  That's when I turned the channel.

    Parent
    I'd venture to say (5.00 / 15) (#33)
    by k on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:39 PM EST
    that if Obama is the nominee the nightmare has just begun.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 10) (#44)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:20 PM EST
    Nightmare? If he thinks it's been bad and Hillary has been too tough on Obama then he'll have a nervous breakdown if Obama is the nominee.

    Parent
    "Our national nightmare" is what he said (5.00 / 5) (#166)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:55 PM EST
    and it was a ridiculous statement to say the least.

    Parent
    A ridiculous statement (5.00 / 5) (#229)
    by suki on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:41:11 PM EST
    made by an even more ridiculous person.
    Do you think he has any idea what a fool he's become?
    I hope the nightmare he has involves a haunting by Murrow.

    Parent
    Sorry I have posted more than 10 comments today (5.00 / 16) (#7)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:32 PM EST
     I appreciate your blog so much and frankly as an old democratic Missouri Hill Billy I've needed to vet my anger at the stupidity of the party. Thank you for this site. I do apologize for abusing the privilege of posting.

    you can lurk and give ratings however! (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:29:25 PM EST
    that way you won't miss discussions.

    Parent
    I notice... (5.00 / 15) (#8)
    by OrangeFur on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:29 PM EST
    ... that John McCain is saying nice things about Clinton again. From the NYT:

    She has inspired generations of American women to believe that they can reach the highest office in this nation.

    Between this and his reaction to the Pfleger episode, it seems that he's making an effort to woo Clinton voters. Which, whatever you think of his sincerity, is something we could use a lot more of on the Democratic side.

    I think McCain honestly understands that one (5.00 / 14) (#13)
    by MarkL on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:40 PM EST
    can have a campaign in which both candidates strive to win, but respect each other. Look back to 2000---it wasn't McCain who used the dirty tricks.
    Now, since Obama shows zero respect to McCain, I don't expect McCain to show any deference at all to him, but with Hillary.. maybe.

    Parent
    You know what McCain has (5.00 / 19) (#17)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:19:21 PM EST
    that Obama doesn't?

    The ability to learn.

    Remember when that old lady was caught at a campaign event asking him "How do we beat the b***h?" and he kind of laughed and didn't admonish her?

    He doesn't do or promote that type of stuff any more. He knows he needs HRC's voters to win.

    Too bad Obama never figured that out.

    Parent

    I don't for a second (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST
    believe, esp. in the context of Republicana, that McCain wouldn't yuk it up with someone who used that type of language towards Hillary again.  In public.  I'm sure he does it all the time anyway.  But he knows how to work the politics.  Remember: he's still a huge a**.  

    Nonetheless, when the articles that come out about McCain flatter the female Dem candidate, and Obama's describe Obama as "not being like a high school girl waiting by the phone," well, you've gotta wonder what the Obama people are thinking.  Esp. when polls give 23% of her people to McCain.  

    Parent

    Do you remember the look on his face (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:55:56 PM EST
    when that woman said that?  He looked like he wanted to run out of the room for a moment.  Then he kind of laughed and gave some answer.  He just didn't know what the hell to do at the time.


    Parent
    The answer is obvious (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:17 PM EST
    and McCain will never get it.

    Parent
    And as far as the GE goes (none / 0) (#105)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:00 PM EST
    I think the job of feminists is to show exactly how awful McCain is, and how much he will set this country back.  Show also how insensitive Obama's campaign has been.  But Obama's presidency is by far the better alternative.  Hillary has given women the opportunity to be incredibly visible.  Staying visible is just a matter of effort.  Her demographics, her numbers with women, just beg to be organized into something effective.  Republicans don't give a d*mn about women.  McCain won't do jack.  Obama can be influenced.  

    Parent
    Disagree. Feminists have the job of supporting (5.00 / 15) (#126)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:03:08 PM EST
    the candidate that is best for the country.  Period.  That person is not Obama.  If you haven't figured out by now that the DNC doesn't give a hoot about women then you haven't been paying attention.  I don't know how old you are but I have been around a long, long time and worked way too hard for equal rights to have someone tell me that I need to get "organized into something effective" when that "something effective" you speak of doesn't advance the cause of women.  Voting for Obama is not a vote for women.  It is a vote for a Chicago machine politician who will do and say anything to get elected.  He is a radical who hangs around with unsavory people.  He is not about women and he is not about advancing any agenda except his own.  Capice?

    Parent
    I'm with you on this. They demean women through (5.00 / 3) (#164)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:14:02 PM EST
    this whole sordid primary and then use my gender as a weapon to blackmail me to vote for them.  The battle cry "what about Roe v Wade?" and my uterus is  going to tell my brain to STFU and direct me to vote Obama.

    Not this time.  They have proven themselves to be as slimy as R's this time around and I'm not buying.

    Parent

    Dems are so much about women (5.00 / 7) (#183)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:19:56 PM EST
    Thats why the partial birth bill didn't pass right? That why they were so responsive when the SC declared that insurance companies were not required to carry BC pills on their formulary? It's why they've gone out of the way to address the loophole that has caused BC pills costs to go up on campuses? I why they filibustered Alito? Oh wait, they didn't do any of those things. The DNC can bite me. I'll be darne if they will manipulate me  by bringing out the election year cies of how much "better" they are. They aren't.  

    Parent
    Well, old men can get their Viagra paid for by (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:28:08 PM EST
    the insurance companies but women have a hard time getting their birth control pills covered.  Who runs the universe?  All you women who vote for Obama, remember that, okay?  Just think about all the little ways women are screwed in society and maybe you'll change your mind about voting for him.  I'm not saying vote for McCain, I'm saying sit it out this time.  Send a message.

    Parent
    I'm not voting for him (5.00 / 1) (#264)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:12:02 PM EST
    as I've stated prior his best chance would be to beg Hillary to join his ticket. Hillay hs proven to me that she is a figher and she wouldn't allow us to bulldozed over.

    I'm not voting MCain either.

    I'll vote down ticket and write in Hill.

    Parent

    Dems suck. (5.00 / 0) (#228)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:40:20 PM EST
    Obviously they suck.  Have they done much of anything since 2006?  I guess they prevented things from getting terribly worse.  

    I know Dems are awful, but I think the white women of the electorate now have the opportunity to flaunt their electoral strength.  Overall, it's a good moment for women in general.  The media is afraid of the electoral power of white women!  They don't like how "difficult" they are.  God knows how confused they are by WOC.  Do you hold the Dem party's many real sins against Hillary?  I don't.  The Dems suck.  Obama really sucks.  But if he's the nominee, I will vote for him.

    Women are statistically unified this election.  We have the opportunity to make our goals and concerns known.  We have the data to back up our mandate.  I think Hillary is not just a candidate.  I think she represents the need for healthcare and a helping hand for the impoverished.  I think her "wing" can perserve (sp) through this election.

    Millions of women agree upon this:  Hillary is best.  Even if she is not the nominee, we have to carry this on based on what Hillary is about; healthcare, jobs, education.  


    Parent

    A large portion of the (5.00 / 3) (#246)
    by cawaltz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:58:19 PM EST
    impoverished are women. Women and children make up a significant portion of the poor in this country. I see poverty and women's and children's issues as things that go hand in hand. It's one of the reasons why Hillary became my choice after Edwards dropped out.

    I don't see myself voting for Obama because all I'v seen is derision fom his camp for working classfolks that are in danger of sliding into poverty. I get the impression he is aligned with the pull yourselves up by your bootstraps for my taste. I want a strong, capable and responsive government. I don't see thathappening with Obama or McCain.

    Parent

    May I ask your age? (none / 0) (#237)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:50:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes. (5.00 / 0) (#251)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:42 PM EST
    I am 22 going on 23.  Clinton supporter.  

    If you're searching for generational differences, I know they are there.  I would be interested in hearing your take on them.  Personally, McCain reminds me of the snide young men my age who would gladly say b*tch, who would happily vote for him, who would buy C*** t-shirts.  

    Parent

    Disagree with your disagreement! (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:25:18 PM EST
    If Obama's political style is as weak as we think, it can be changed and usurped by someone else within the next 8-10 years.  I think someone who calls his wife the c word, entertains a question in which Hillary is called a b**, and wants to continue a war in which women die while taking away their reproductive rights, is not the right candidate for a country ready to leap forward from Republicans' medieval view of reality.  

    They suck.  So much.  I live in the South.  Believe me.  Plz!

    The DNC is a group of bumblers with no clue about how to deal with two groups of passionate supporters, each numbering 17 million.  The DNC can be flipped as quickly as anything else.  They're literally a ship of fools.  Terry McA was the chair in 2004, I believe.  Someone new will be the chair in 2010.  

    Overall, what I'm saying is that Clinton has the female vote locked up.  Statistically, women in general, even if Obama is the nominee, can look around and say, gee, we voted for Clinton?  What now?  This is a political opportunity.  Seeing women support the first viable female candidate for the Presidency in such massive numbers should encourage women to keep organizing and making sure Obama keeps it real.  We'd have to do the same (feet to the fire wise) if it was Clinton.  

    Also, I think a strong woman (running for Prez) should see Clinton's path as that of a true trailblazer.  She took a lot of hits.  Think another candidate would take more?  I think her effort might make the next female candidate gulp but it is certainly a worthy goal!  Clinton has set the bar.  The media has put that bar very, very low (and yet very, very high).  But at least female pols know what they are in for.

    I think Clinton will be thought of much more fondly in the future than the pundits think of her now.

    Parent

    You're defending Hillary not Obama. He is not (5.00 / 6) (#215)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:34:44 PM EST
    for women, get it?  He's for himself only.  I don't give a hoot about the next woman to come along.  I care about the woman who is here now.  She's the most qualified person for the presidency this year.  I don't care if it's a woman, a man, or a 3-armed mutant from Chernobyl.  She is the most qualified PERSON.  Obama is not qualified.  And I resent the implication that many of us are voting for Hillary only because she's female.

    Parent
    I get where you are coming from. I will never vote (5.00 / 5) (#225)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:38:07 PM EST
    McCain, so that is a non-starter. I will however withhold my vote from Obama.

    You say that these massive numbers will force Obama to keep it real. Have you seen him do anything to support that belief?  

    Because I have seen him brush Hillary off his shoulders and shoes. I have seen him degrade her showing of emotion.  I have seen his wife blame infidelity on Hillary.  I have seen him use the words; claws, periodically feeling down, and likeable enough. I have seen him refer to a female journalist as sweetie.  

    I have NEVER seen him take a stand for women. And I don't believe that I am going to see that happen anytime soon.

    Parent

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#238)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:53:49 PM EST
    I think Obama obscures the Dem platform with his unity shtick.  We'll see what happens in the GE.  Hopefully he frickin defends us.

    I know about all these Obama incidents.  But think about it.  The guy that hugs GW so sweetly, the guy that acknowledges openly someone who calls Hillary a b*tch, the guy who stands on Republican principles...he's still so much worse.  McCain's potential to doublecross us is much greater.  I don't believe Obama has the same potential.  Plus he really needs us now to be Pres.  Puts women in a good position.

    Parent

    Where exactly is that position? Please do tell. (5.00 / 1) (#249)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:59:03 PM EST


    Parent
    I think women, (none / 0) (#259)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:06:08 PM EST
    having largely supported Hillary, being indispensable to Obama's GE success, have a lot of political leverage right now.  If Obama's team is smart, they will start engaging us more than they have.  We are the ones they need to win.  I think this is a good, if abstract position, for women.  We certainly have more power than bloggers, if I can put it that way.

    If Obama does not allow women to shape his platform I believe he will lose the election.  And he will if he chooses a woman other than Hillary as VP.

    Parent

    Honestly, the time to start defending women has (5.00 / 1) (#257)
    by leis on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:03:43 PM EST
    long passed for Obama.

    At this point it is nothing but pandering to get votes.  He realizes he needs the votes of all the women he has refused to speak out for.

     In my opinion he can do nothing to get those votes.  He doesn't deserve them.

    Parent

    Obama IS Dubya! (5.00 / 3) (#265)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:12:24 PM EST
    He doesn't have to hug him!  He's Dubya with a Democrat brand label.  

    Just like Dubya, he has no experience, he's a "Washington outsider," and he is promising us "Unity."  That's the platform Dubya ran on too!  

    And you saw what happened!  The minute Dubya got into office a bunch of old timers ran the agenda.  Do you really think Dubya was running the country?  Or do you think Dick Cheney was doing the job?

    Obama will be another one of those.  Obama doesn't know enough to run this country.  He's going to give us uplifting speeches with a teleprompter while others with various motives run with whatever agenda they have.  

    Anyway, call it female intuition but I sense a rat.  

    Parent

    I seriously believe (5.00 / 12) (#142)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    that her candidacy will SCARE other women from running.  She has been treated worse than any other presidential candidate I've EVER seen.  And I've followed quite a number of primaries.

    And if Obama wins the general on this HORRENDOUSLY cruel campaign against Hillary, I don't think I'll see a female president in my lifetime.

    Parent

    we don't have a job. obama does! (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by hellothere on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:31:13 PM EST


    Parent
    McCain also has class. And humility. And (5.00 / 5) (#85)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:02 PM EST
    maturity.  Obama has none of these.

    Parent
    Oh, oh, oh - not true. (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by inclusiveheart on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:19:01 PM EST
    McCain is about as scary as it gets in DC.  Obama is a nothing - and therefore manageable - McCain on the other hand is extremely complex, effective and dangerous.  

    Parent
    McCain's no dummy (5.00 / 9) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:03 PM EST
    He can stick his finger to the wind.

    I won't vote for him.  But I will never underestimate him either.

    Parent

    yeah, it was bad enough when the Dems (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by MarkL on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:48 PM EST
    misunderestimated Bush.

    Parent
    I believe he is completely sincere (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:48 PM EST
    He said on MTP when he was asked 2 years ago about Hillary running for president that she would be an outstanding candidate and could be a great president.  I haven't seen his attitude change at all.


    Parent
    Not to mention what one of his aides said (none / 0) (#256)
    by americanincanada on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:03:13 PM EST
    today on the trail.

    Fiorina: "I think women in positions of power are treated differently"

    The McCain aide and former CEO says Clinton has faced sexism in the campaign.

    "I have a lot of sympathy for what she's gone through. A lot of women recognize she's been treated differently, whether they're Democrats or Republicans."

    Parent

    OT ... (none / 0) (#266)
    by Jane in CA on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:13:10 PM EST
    But I've heard that Fiorina is running for California Governor on the Republican ticket in two years.

    As of tomorrow (after the election), I am no longer a democrat, so I can vote for her, guilt-free :)

    Parent

    I think a race between Clinton (none / 0) (#270)
    by Grace on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:20:02 PM EST
    and McCain would have been run at a much higher level.  They both know how to play in the mud but they wouldn't have had to do that.  They have enough differences between them to run a good race.  

    Parent
    Who here thinks Hillary can win (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by vicsan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:11:40 PM EST
    both Montana and SD tomorrow? Have you seen the latest polls? She will win SD and is within 4 point in Montana. Then what will the DC elites, DNC and the MSM do? I would expect to see a few heads exploding tomorrow night. :) She's looking good in BOTH states! What say you?

    Well, it seemed like there was a large (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by derridog on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:38:46 PM EST
    undecided vote in Montana. Wasn't it 8 percent? If late voters vote for Hillary, it's possible.

    I hate to get my hopes up, though.

    Parent

    I don't see it (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:41:05 PM EST
    ARG just hasn't had a good record.  I wish there were other polls out.  Obama figured 15 pts in SD and 11 in MT.  The SDs will need to look at why he didn't get there.

    My ideal?  Clinton can come out a few pts ahead in SD than Obama does in MT and keeps the popular vote gain for him very depressed.  bwaahaahaa

    Parent

    It is possible, because ... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by cymro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:11 PM EST
    ... it looks as if she is very strong in SD. If MT is truly within 4%, with 8% undecided, as today's ARG poll reported, then anything is possible.

    However, one odd thing about the report of that poll is this statement:

    Obama leads 49% to 45% among voters age 18 to 49 (44% of likely Democratic primary voters) and Obama leads 48% to 43% among voters age 50 and older

    Older voters in almost every other state have tilted to Clinton, yet the poll states that Clinton has no advantage among the 56% of voters who are 50 and older. This seems hard to believe, especially since the previous Mason-Dixon poll in MT reported a 16 point difference between those two age groups:

    Voters younger than age 50 favor Obama by 56 percent to 30 percent, while those 50 and older back Obama 49 percent to 39 percent ...

    This conflict undermines my faith in this ARG poll, and my degree of belief already starts from the knowledge that ARG is lowly ranked in accuracy among all polls. So I conclude that she could win, but I'm not counting on it.

    Parent

    Clogging (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:13:03 PM EST
    Dance

    That is hysterical Stella thanks for posting that (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by athyrio on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:22:29 PM EST
    clog dance.....No doubt all Hillary supporters :-)

    Parent
    Thanks for the laff... (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Chuck Todd on Obamamann (5.00 / 18) (#15)
    by Coldblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:20 PM EST
    said Obama is pressuring his 'banked' superdelegates to come out for him tomorrow and that, coupled with his expected his PD pick ups tomorrow, will allow him to declare victory before Hillary can speak tomorrow night.

    The more I see from Obama, the more hardened I become in not supporting his nomination.

    One would think (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:43 PM EST
    the BANKED supers would come out BEFORE this last primary, to help Obama win the primary on a high note.

    Parent
    Backlash (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:58 PM EST
    I'm wondering if they're afraid of a backlash.  A lot of top DNC people are officially undeclared.  I would assume it's somewhat of a tradition of not endorsing early so 'lower-downs' get to declare who they want (sort of why Gore hasn't endorsed anyone yet).

    If he declares himself the nominee too early, even if he reaches the magic number, a lot of people will be very unhappy.  Could some of them finally have realized they have a lot of very unhappy Democrats and recently-former Democrats on their hands?

    Btw, all these reports of SDs meeting in a closed room somewhere -- so high school, doncha think?

    Parent

    Everything about the Obama campaign (5.00 / 7) (#87)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:28 PM EST
    seems high school to me.  From the finger on the cheek, to the RFK thing, to the closed door RBC to the super closed door meeting.

    It feels like the Democratic Party has been invaded by blog-cloggers (ht CC)

    Parent

    I think you are being too kind by likening (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:00:26 PM EST
    it to high school...seems more like middle school to me.

    Bush always reminded me of "Beavis," so it's too bad the show wasn't called "Beavis and Bonehead."  

    Parent

    Pick Flick... (none / 0) (#162)
    by mulletov cocktails on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:30 PM EST


    Parent
    That Obama would even consider such a (5.00 / 12) (#40)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST
    tasteless and mean-spirited act tells me pretty much all I need to know about him.  

    I would vote for the dirt on the bottom of my shoe before I would vote for such a despicable person.

    Parent

    It's not like he's wanting for airtime. (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:43:38 PM EST
    Let them count the votes.  Unless he thinks that superdelegates are widely respected as an institution by the American public?

    Parent
    It was very telling to me (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by suki on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:55:15 PM EST
    and certainly not presidential, to put it mildly.
    I can't imagine any President, besides Bush, who would do something like that.

    Parent
    No Real Surprise (5.00 / 5) (#70)
    by CDN Ctzn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:44:20 PM EST
    considering the media, so-called "progressive" talk shows and blogs, and Obamaphiles all annointed him as the Nominee over THREE MONTHS ago.

    Damn the voters; full speed ahead!

    Parent

    Hillary Will Win South Dakota (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:23 PM EST
    Will Obama wait for Hillary's SD win or try to pretend it's not happening?

    Wow, Daschle is really useful.

    Parent

    ColdBlue - you speak for me (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:54:49 PM EST
    Obama's arrogance and immaturity are big turnoffs.


    Parent
    Irish blog dancing? (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:21:44 PM EST
    Really - when I saw the title that's where my mind went. The image of Atrios, Kos, and Josh doing a jig together had me spurting.

    Love it. But as an Irisher, (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:18 PM EST
    I can attest -- based on more than 15,000 emails among my family in the last five years alone; one archived them all and has a message counter! --  that an Irish blog must be one wordy site.  

    It would take some serious, well, blogslogging to get through it all.:-)

    Parent

    Me too (none / 0) (#57)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:34 PM EST
    I thought that was going to be the video.

    Parent
    Larry King just read a statement that Clinton (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:23:54 PM EST
    campaign will say tomorrow night that she will do anything it takes to get a Dem in the White House in Nov. Larry says Obama insiders say that means she will accept VP if offered. Wexler says that's just conjecture and too soon to say. Carville agrees.

    Nobody has spoken in Sen Clinton's defense more than Barack Obama says Wexler. Oh my goodness!

    No he didn't! (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:26:03 PM EST
    Did his nose grow a few inches? Cause that is a ridiculous lie.

    To think I used to like Wexler. Yikes!

    Parent

    And where's Obama in all of this? (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:30:54 PM EST
    What will HE do to make sure a dem is in the White House (at the end of January, actually)?

    Parent
    He's already doing it - he's allowing (5.00 / 11) (#56)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:03 PM EST
    the multitudes the opportunity to vote for him.

    And aren't we just so grateful?

    Ugh.

    Parent

    but there are no caucuses in Nov. (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by Josey on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:44 PM EST
    for his bullying multitudes.


    Parent
    Slapping Wexler Silly In My Mind.... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:11 PM EST
    birds of a feather...

    Parent
    Uh huh. He's been a real sweetie. (5.00 / 8) (#30)
    by Cream City on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:45 PM EST
    And it's time to take it meta.  So let it be said that no one has said more often that no one has done more for something or other than the one who keeps saying more than anyone that no one has done more for something or other, etc., etc.  Or so he says.

    I just can't listen to the One anymore.  It makes my head hurt.  

    Parent

    I agree. No one has made my head hurt more (5.00 / 8) (#47)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:37:48 PM EST
    than Obama.

    Just tell me, what comes after "loathe," because that's where I am.

    Parent

    Wexler has no shame. (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by themomcat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:52 PM EST


    Parent
    re Wexler has no shame (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by Cal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:28 PM EST
    Ya gotta admit though, he does a damn good Nikita Kruschev imitation.  

    Parent
    I hear that's one of the telltale (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:46:06 PM EST
    symptoms of the Obama virus; Wexler's got a very severe case. ;-)

    Parent
    Will he offer? (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Lil on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:21 PM EST
    I hope so. I'd like to get excited about the GE again and that would go a long way toward doing it. No consolation picks; I want Hillary on this ticket. Some of the sting of her losing the top spot would be reduced. Any other pick would be insulting, frankly. Rendell on CNN made it sound like it's pretty much over even though he's an "ardent" supporter. I just realized my comment is probably off topic. Sorry about that.

    Parent
    Do you really want to watch her (5.00 / 7) (#84)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:49:14 PM EST
    play second fiddle to that totally unqualified man? For FOUR years?! And if they lose the GE, it will be her fault. I know she's dedicated to the party, but Obama is a bad move for her imo. Look what he's already done to them during this primary . . .

    Parent
    No, not really (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Lil on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:54:19 PM EST
    I really want her on top, but before all this I really wanted to beat a Republican; I want that feeling back, because when I put aside my po'd feelings, I really remember how much I think the Republicans suck and how bad they screwed us.

    Parent
    I don't think she should tie herself to him (5.00 / 8) (#109)
    by livesinashoe on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:28 PM EST
     in any way.

    Let him succeed or fall on his own merits.

    Parent

    Ha! Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:37 PM EST
    Chat away...  it's an open thread. woohoo

    Parent
    How long Wexler's nose must be (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:39:22 PM EST
    for lying!!! Maybe he can pound that on the table.

    Parent
    I'll check the transcript tomorrow but I swear (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:41:49 PM EST
    that's what I heard him say.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:41:57 PM EST
    So they're now backing down on their previous statements about VP? I don't know but they are starting to look desperate. I don't understand why they continually do this desperate stuff.

    Parent
    I thought that, too (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Dawn Davenport on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:19:41 PM EST
    A week and a half ago, his campaign was shouting Hillary's "RFK comments" from the rooftops as proof why she's "unfit" to be his v.p. choice, and all the pundits were talking about her "forcing herself" to be on the ticket.

    But now she's being mentioned as a potential v.p. on the ticket... maybe because it's starting to sink in that there's almost 3 long months till Denver.

    Parent

    No one has done more for hyperbole (5.00 / 18) (#79)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:31 PM EST
    than Robert Wexler.

    Parent
    Maybe Barack Obama? :-) (5.00 / 6) (#118)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:59:43 PM EST


    Parent
    I SAID NO ONE!!!!! (5.00 / 13) (#125)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:02:49 PM EST
    /banging table

    Parent
    Nobody (5.00 / 4) (#131)
    by chrisvee on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:04:52 PM EST
    has done more for Hillary Clinton than Barack Obama.  ;-)

    Parent
    By August, that may be true. (none / 0) (#273)
    by FlaDemFem on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:59:12 PM EST
    Now that the media won't have the campaign to cover, they will start digging into his past. And with the Rezko trial just coming to an end, there will be lots and lots of speculation, or interviews, regarding the connections between Obama and Rezko. Then they will start on his Palestinian connections. Oh yeah, I think Obama is going to do a lot for Hillary by August. Like hand her the nomination thanks to all the heretofore unknown skeletons in his closet. The media must have ratings, it's not about news anymore, it's about ratings. So, what gets ratings?? The old stuff about McCain or Hillary Clinton?? No, the new stuff about Obama, that's what is going to get the ratings. And it will all hit the fan all summer long.
    I can't wait. Heh.

    Parent
    Did it ever come up that the Dem she (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:43 PM EST
    was talking about was her?

    Parent
    Because up is down and cold is hot (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Marvin42 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:20 PM EST
    in Bizarro Obama World and his followers. If he (or by extension they) say anything it must be true.

    I am starting to believe.....reaching for coolaid....please help me....

    Parent

    Maybe it was an inside joke? (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by cymro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:34 PM EST
    At least the broadcasters and technicians listening in must have been cracking up, along with whoever fed him that line.

    Parent
    Wexler (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:10:50 PM EST
    continues to insult the intelligence of the American people.

    Parent
    Great (none / 0) (#263)
    by standingup on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:11:39 PM EST
    Yet another thing the Dems now have in common with the Republicans - revision of history.  

     

    Parent

    Tinfoil hat in place.... (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by Jeannie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:11 PM EST
    Could there possibly be a lot of super delegates who promised Hillary that they would vote for her if she won the popular vote? Could that be the reason for the 'party' tomorrow night?
    I know..... wishful thinking.....

    I dunno...another outrage (5.00 / 8) (#97)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:53:33 PM EST
    I was feeling sort of hopeful earlier today but then I found out (I couldn't attend) that my state's (TN) major state Dem fundraiser last weekend featured the odious Claire McCaskill as its headliner - with NOBODY offered the chance to speak for Hillary.  To add the icing to the cake, McCaskill was introduced by Rep. Steve Cohen - he of the "Hillary is like Glenn Close in 'Fatal Attraction'" remark.

    This in a state where she won by FOURTEEN POINTS.  Apparently the selection of McCaskill was not announced in advance, with the address of TN Governor Phil Bredesen having been promoted.  My source indicates Bredesen used most of his speaking time to praise Obama.

    If I was livid before?  What comes after apoplectic?

    I'm really considering asking all and sundry for a refund for any money I've ever given them.  I wish to hell I could bill them for the time I've put in as a volunteer.

    Parent

    apoplectic? The whole state of Mo. is apoplectic (5.00 / 8) (#186)
    by mogal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:21:18 PM EST
    except for Saint Louis county.  I know I'm over limit but Claire punches a button.

    Parent
    I knew Bredesen would do that. He better be (none / 0) (#134)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:45 PM EST
    glad he can't run again. Eleanor, my mom & I were just talking about Claire and wondering about Phil a few hours ago. Now I know the answers.

    Parent
    My guess is (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:11:11 PM EST
    Bredesen's been promised something.  Probably been told he has a spot on Obama's VP vet list.  He's been positively slavering for such an opportunity for a while now (I heard from a few people his ring wasn't kissed sufficiently by Kerry, which was why Bredesen repeatedly told reporters Kerry wouldn't win in Tennessee - in what seemed at the time like a  kick in the chops to the volunteers busting their butts to help Kerry.)

    All this tells me is the Party is going to try to put (to use MAWM from Riverdaughter's term) lipstick on this pig.  Too bad, because nothing the Party can do will save him.  You can't convince me folks out in Grundy County - or even the last yellow dog stalwarts in places like Carthage - will vote for Obama.  Not after "bittergate", et. al.

    (Don't get me started on the Harold Ford race in 2006, and how TN Dems voted for the anti-gay-marriage ballot initiative that doomed him.  In a lot of ways, they're no smarter than the national Dems.)

    Parent

    A poster on The Confluence has a (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:18:42 PM EST
    list of D.I.C.S. (Democrats I Can't Stand) and I've added Phil to mine. Claire has one of the top spots.

    Bredesen disappoints me but I knew when he wanted one of those big SD meetings a couple of months ago that he was supporting Obama. I just knew it.

    Parent

    Obama Virus is spreading from KOS, DU & HuffPo (5.00 / 11) (#31)
    by OxyCon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:31:49 PM EST
    ...and is beginning to infect all blogs.

    Seriously, this makes me think about some new show on SciFi channel or something.

    Also, look at the caliber of these new Obama posters you see all over the blogs these days. America is doomed if these people are our future. Drinking Red Bull and eating Cheetos must rot the brain, or something.

    This is definitely a cheesy poof crowd (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:03 PM EST
    rooting for obama.

    Parent
    Look at how (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by Coldblue on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:43 PM EST
    they are demonizing Jerome Armstrong...on his own blog!

    Pathetic.

    Parent

    Jerome (5.00 / 7) (#184)
    by themomcat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:20:24 PM EST
    needs new rules. They were getting vicious over there when they let Bob Johnson in the door. Now it is Obamaland and pretty much a free for all on Hillary and her supporters. I left before they started editing Alegre's diaries without her permission.

    Parent
    It's sad (5.00 / 4) (#213)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:33:19 PM EST
    the newest frontpager is a guy who wrote a rant about how Hillary's RFK comments were disqualifying and she needed to drop out immediately.

    I mean, that's low-quality stuff even in the comments.

    Parent

    I left there awhile back (none / 0) (#269)
    by americanincanada on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:18:54 PM EST
    it just became too painful to be there. I try to go back from time to time but just get shouted down or called a racist so why should I bother.

    it sux too because I respect Jerome and Todd but that place has become unbearable.

    Parent

    Who said he ever had class. If I had ever (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:32:46 PM EST
    been for obama, it wouldn't have taken long to flee from his camp.

    First friends in Fla remarks about the DNC (5.00 / 10) (#38)
    by BarnBabe on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:34:12 PM EST
    Heard from my Aunt and cousins. To begin with, when I was saying a month ago that I do not think Obama would be a good President, I would get he has to be better than McCain. Today, totally new reaction. They watched the proceedings Saturday and were appalled. I heard they will not vote for Obama and we  barely survived 8 years of Bush, and we will continue to survive under McCain. They do not want to be a united party to people who are so crude, such as Donna and Wexler, and they do not know how Dean could have not stopped the ugliness in the beginning with the media. She mentions that they think nothing of calling her a *itch but they sure would not allow Obama or any other man to be called a *astard all the time. This is interesting because none of them blog. They are everyday good Democrats who are not going to be 'made' to vote for Obama.

    Barnbabe: THEY ARE AS MAD AS HELL; (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:37:56 PM EST
    AND THEY AREN'T TAKING IT ANYMORE....I believe that could be the mantra for many of us on TL.

    Parent
    I hear (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Lil on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:39:29 PM EST
    lots of anecdotal stuff like that up here in NJ too

    Parent
    Bush helps McCain by being a Very Bad (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by Valhalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:05 PM EST
    President.

    That is what I take from your family's take on the appalling mess that was the RBC meeting.

    Ha!  How hilarious would it be if McCain won on a campaign slogan of 'I'm not great, but I'm not as bad as Bush'?

    Also tragic, but hilarious as well.

    Parent

    Remember Bill's statement (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:37:52 PM EST
    today, saying this may be his last campaign stop (or whatever it was that he said)....and everyone said it was tea leaves indicating that Hillary is leaving the race...

    Well my husband had an interesting theory....

    ...Hillary is going to throw the Big Dog under the bus!  Sorry Bill, you've spent too much time sniffing in the neighbor's yard, you're going under the bus! (LOL, kidding)

    I laughed and laughed.

    If Obama Needs Foriegn Policy Cred (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:38:04 PM EST
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrill_A._McPeak

    who thinks Clinton is McCarthy.

    or Zbigniew Brzezinski.

    These men would make great VP candidates for Barack Obama.

    Their resumes are impecable.

    Edgar08... (5.00 / 6) (#63)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

    How can the Party be on the verge of nominating such an unqualified candidate? Good gravy, the country is a freaking disaster after BushCheney! We need someone who knows what she's doing!

    They can't just slap a qualified VP onto Obama like a Band-Aid!

    Parent

    I don't know what to say (none / 0) (#69)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:44:17 PM EST
    Is his support so equally incompetent that he can't pick amongst the many bright bulbs on his team?

    Can Rev. Wright head up a faith based initiative?

    Why not?

    Seriously.  Why not?  

    Parent

    The worst thing is (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:42 PM EST
    that we have such a great candidate, but the Party just won't let her win.

    Heaven forbid we should ever nominate someone who has a 100% chance of winning!

    Parent

    Obama (none / 0) (#132)
    by tek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM EST
    has said that he thinks the Faith Based Initiative is a good program that should be expanded.  Now we know who will benefit from such an expansion!

    Parent
    Faith based politics (5.00 / 5) (#167)
    by MisterPleasant on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:15:03 PM EST
    is antithetical to everything I believe.  No way do I want religion to be involved in politics in any way.  I have always felt strongly about this.  I did not vote for Jimmy Carter due to his frequent comments about being a born again christian. (before anyone piles on me, I voted for Anderson, not Reagan in '80).

    Obama's trouble with his church should be a gigantic warning sign to Democrats that the two do not mix.  Leave religion to the Republicans.

    Parent

    Hillary should blog. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:41:59 PM EST
    Wouldn't that be funny?

    (I think she has more in common with bloggers than they'd like to admit.)

    We should start a campaign (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    to have her come HERE and talk to US when she has time after the primary.

    Do a chat of some kind or something.

    Parent

    YES! (none / 0) (#124)
    by Jackson Hunter on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:01:59 PM EST
    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Great call Teresa, I bet that she would.

    Jackson

    Parent

    What do you think Hillary would (none / 0) (#103)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:54:56 PM EST
    say if she blogged?

    Parent
    I'm imaginging (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by lilburro on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:32 PM EST
    healthcare prescriptions, in tiny type.  ;)  If Hillary were younger, I think she'd be all over it.  

    Hillary has been given a lot of authority during this election.  American politics has never seen anyone like her.  I think she is trusted way more on certain issues than Obama is.  Healthcare in particular.  Regardless of the DNC unity hysterics, she will still have a lot of power.   If Hillary wrote a blog post, would you read it?  My answer is, h3ll yeah.  

    Parent

    I would read it. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:14 PM EST


    Parent
    Stay (5.00 / 8) (#64)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:42:19 PM EST
    Hillary now leads a movement, not just a campaign.  It's historic and it's got momentum, and it will develop over the summer to affect the balloting in Denver on August 27.

    There will be no nominee until August.

    I urge Hillary to stay in until the convention.

    The Elephant In The Room (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:45 PM EST

    I've not seen the Vanity Fair-Bill Clinton hit-piece mentioned anywhere or by anyone.

    Is it something that will be discussed soon or did I miss the memo that we don't give attention to tripe like that (which I'd be completely fine with grin)

    I just wanted to say though, that as a journalism aficionado, no respected publication should publish such nonsense with so many anonymous sources making such fiery claims and suggestions. So for VF to print that rubbish is shocking. And Todd Purdum is slimy, indeed.

    Hit Job (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:50:26 PM EST
    We talked about it this morning here.  Seems calculated to hit the Clintons hard at a critical time.

    Really pathetic.  

    Parent

    And will crush (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:53:37 PM EST
    Obama's chance at Unity.

    Perhaps he will value being president more than destroying Clintons and make a statement about it.


    Parent

    No, on Anderson 360 they just said Bill (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:08:31 PM EST
    killed Hillary's chance at VP by his "tirade" today. I'm turning the TV off now.

    Parent
    Good for Bill (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:15:27 PM EST
    It's time someone said it.

    She's vilified in the man's church in front of a cheering mob and she and Bill are supposed to help him win.

    I bet even an Obama supporter can't figure that one out.

    I bet there's a few here who might like to try.

    Parent

    Obama Tolerates Mockery of Clinton (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by Athena on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:26:08 PM EST
    And she's mocked to the cheers and hollers of Obama's community.  They weren't called out either.

    If Obama can't defend Clinton against the racist rantings in his church, he sure can't be trusted to defend any of us.

    Disgusting double standard throughout this race.

    Parent

    Oh, Of Course (5.00 / 0) (#189)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:22:03 PM EST
    This would be the perfect reason to say that Hillary won't be offered the VP spot [[[rolls eyes]]].

    Only now, the Obama campaign wouldn't have to do the 'hard work' of reaching into the history books (read: Dick Morris' nonsense, Olbermann transcripts) to find something outrageous to buffer their arguments.

    I am just so fed up with this treatment of Bill and Hillary. If she just doesn't get the nomination, I want them both and Chelsea to pack their bags and take a long, much-deserved vacation far away from this mess -- let the circus go on without them. I think they are too good for the party to expect anything from them anymore. (Speaking for me only.)

    And I feel bad for Dee Dee Myers (wife of the slimball Todd Purdum, who wrote the article). I always thought she was a great supporter of Hillary Clinton's campaign on CNN etc.


    Parent

    That knocks me out (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:23:27 PM EST
    'Hillary's chance'

    Jeez.  She would be doing them the favor.


    Parent

    Some guy on Fox (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:54:31 PM EST
    Bob somebody, was really tricked off about it and just slammed the article and VF.

    Parent
    Thing is (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:04:17 PM EST
    if this could be published now, it could be published in October.

    So whatever.  I happen to think no one cares.  Guess we'll find out.

    Parent

    No one does care. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by madamab on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:10:13 PM EST
    It's aimed at crushing the morale of her voters and justifying Obama's nomination IMHO.

    Unfortunately, IACF! doesn't work any more...

    Parent

    So the evidence (5.00 / 0) (#204)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:34 PM EST
    then is that it was timed for the end of the primaries.

    We really shouldn't be surprised but it's still just stunning.

    Parent

    Bill (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by tek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:07:45 PM EST
    let loose today on the guy who wrote the piece.  It's up at HuffPo if you can stomach going there.  I figure it's about time Bill let off some steam, now he doesn't have to care about Rahm Emanuel telling him to shut up and get off the campaign trail!

    Parent
    Who cares? (1.00 / 0) (#175)
    by cannondaddy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:18:10 PM EST
    I have a subscription to Vanity Fair and I hardly ever read it.  I did like last month's RFK article.

    Parent
    They talked about on CNN today (none / 0) (#112)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:03 PM EST
    with the guy who wrote the piece. He said that all his info comes from staffers, non specifically named, no allegations are put forth, but thought people should know this stuff. It sounds like a whack job to me.

    Parent
    Saw it on ABC online (none / 0) (#272)
    by gandy007 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:40:37 PM EST
    With great reluctance, sure, they referred to the piece.

    I wouldn't hold my breath on others not piling on.

    A bizarre twist is that the piece is written by Tom Purdum, the husband of Dee Dee Myers, a Press Secretary I think for two years, for Bill Clinton.

    The first woman to be Press Secretary, I believe.

    Actually it's pretty innocuous unless you have an overactive imagination.  The third person comments on the article are much more provocative than an objective overall reading would convey.  

    Parent

    Ed Schultz just smeared Bill C bad on Larry (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by Teresa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:47:53 PM EST
    King. Anyone up for the replay, watch this. It's about the Vanity Fair article. He is scum.

    One of the best things (5.00 / 8) (#96)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:10 PM EST
    about not being a Democrat anymore is that I don't have to try and listen to Air America.

    Schultz was the worst.  Sounded like Rush Limbaugh, only whinier.  I can hardly wait until November.

    Parent

    Yes, I agree (5.00 / 3) (#127)
    by Lil on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:03:53 PM EST
    I'm off Air America for a couple of months now and I know a lot more of the top 40 hits these days; some catchy tunes. Also completely over withdrawal from Huff, Kos, and KO. It was the only good thing about this primary, being forced to give up those addictions.

    Parent
    Me too! (5.00 / 1) (#235)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:48:05 PM EST
    The primary has been a great motivator for me. I'm no longer spending hours on line or watching KO or listening to Air Amer. They cured me of my political addiction. They incessant browbeating and lack of any integrity make me wake up and realize that the extreme left is no better than the extreme right. As far as KO's comment about the national nightmare being over, his been the nightmare since he signed his new contract.

    Parent
    Why these people are worse than (5.00 / 7) (#107)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:18 PM EST
    Republicans.  They talk about unity and they do this?  The Republicans rallied around McCains issue and defended him.  Schultz is trying to be a Rush, and not doing a good job at it.  He is way too dumb.  

    Parent
    Dems are cannibals (5.00 / 6) (#133)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:05:41 PM EST
    while the GOP takes care of it's own.  Remind me, why was I ever a Dem?  

    Parent
    Of course, and he's an Obama (5.00 / 2) (#187)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:21:38 PM EST
    supporter, but according to Wexler, Obama has great things to say!!!!

    Parent
    And these people (5.00 / 3) (#214)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:33:34 PM EST
    want Hillary Clinton to unite the party for them. We're living in a lunatic asylum and the lunatics are in charge.

    Parent
    Jeralyn (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by tek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:51:09 PM EST
    I'm glad you have these rules.

    Clinton speaking right now in SD (5.00 / 6) (#139)
    by americanincanada on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:06:39 PM EST
    It's an amazing event and it is also clear as a bell from her speach she is not conceding or suspending anything tomorrow.

    She lost her voice for a moment and seemlessly gave the mic to Chelsea who took over her healthcare speech and then gave it back for energy policy. WOW.

    She looks invigorated and on fire, save for losing her voice. She has alrady moved me to tears several times.

    CNN is streaming and it's worth a look if you have the time.

    MT/SD (5.00 / 5) (#143)
    by Robert Oak on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:08:20 PM EST
    I think today's news are just once again, trying to repress Hillary's vote.  The press is all over it on how it's "over" and how "Bill said it's over" (there is nothing from his statement which implies anything but the primaries are over), and how soon "Senators and the House will endorse Obama".

    I just hope MT/SD voters are wised up to this stuff, since they have been doing that since Iowa, to cast their vote for the one they really want.  

    Man, this stuff pisses me off.

    Since I corresponded with Donna (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:13:29 PM EST
    B. yesterday, I just e-mailed her and asked if she and other members of the committee met privately last Saturday which would have accounted for starting the afternoon session late? I doubt she'd answer, but let's see.

    re rule breakers (5.00 / 5) (#178)
    by DFLer on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:18:43 PM EST
    Well someone ( Ms. Brazille I think) talked about how they actually were one vote over a majority to split MI 50-50, but gave Clinton more than that as a gesture (heh). How would they know that if they had not taken an illegal closed session vote, heh?

    Parent
    I know (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:24:17 PM EST
    the 50-50 split would have been disasterous FOR THEM and their candidate.  They think we're pretty stupid if they want to kid us into believing they were generous.

    Parent
    Giving four of Hillary's delegates to Obama (5.00 / 0) (#230)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:42:21 PM EST
    was absolutely criminal.  I'm not voting for Levin either.  The two top spots on my ballot will be blank.  

    Parent
    Roosevelt went on record before the mtg ... (5.00 / 5) (#205)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:40 PM EST
    ... saying the deliberations would take place in open session.

    Guess not.

    Wonder what his grandmomma woulda said about that.

    Parent

    I think that the DNC (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by themomcat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:30:18 PM EST
    has committed political suicide. After their actions on Saturday, the trashing of Bill and Hillary Clinton, the undisguised support for a candidate that has divided the party and cannot, unless the Republicans totally implode, can win in November, I do not recognize this party any longer. It was very liberating changing my affiliation to Independent. Now they really have to work for my vote.

    Parent
    Abd here I thought blogclogging ... (5.00 / 7) (#194)
    by RonK Seattle on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:23:34 PM EST
    ... was an old Appalachian folk tradition, newly adapted to the internets.

    So, the question becomes, why would (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by zfran on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:28:54 PM EST
    they want to smear him when they supposidly want to woo her voters.

    I have been a loyal Democrat for many years (5.00 / 2) (#216)
    by kenosharick on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:34:50 PM EST
    Yet I am going to enjoy watching the republican machine crush the Obama campaign- and by extension: Kos,KO,randi rhodes, ed schultz, donna brazille, howard dean, ect, ect. All people that I used to respect. I had some guilt over these feelings about a "fellow" Dem, but the more crap they pull, the less guilt I feel. I only fear tat with rove in "retirement" the repubs may not be up to the job.

    About Clark. (5.00 / 1) (#231)
    by Radix on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:42:52 PM EST
    I would have to mull that one over, not really sure how I feel about him as Veep. I did notice this line:
    ...Clark would in other fulfill the political requirement of VP masterfully, uniting progressives and Clintonistas...

    If Clark unites the Clinton wing of the party with progressives, who will unite the Obama faction with the progressives, since when was Obama ever a progressive?

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth, Just data to be manipulated

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    good question (5.00 / 0) (#247)
    by RalphB on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:58:32 PM EST
    I don't know what Obama is but, whatever it is, I sure don't like it.

    Parent
    Possible Hillary SD pickup? (5.00 / 2) (#244)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:57:43 PM EST
    Get a load of this story that just washed up in the email.

    Apparently the Vice-Chair of the Texas Democratic Party, an AA woman, is being coerced by the Obama campaign into dropping her bid for Party chair.

    Coincidence, or no, that her opponent is a man? And that there's a Byzantine "deal" being promoted (that sounds really suspicious) should she go along with this plan?  She's discussing changing to HRC from BO.

    Read it and weep, Talkers.  Just more evidence of what a retro mentality many Obama supporters have (particularly when it comes to promoting women candidates apparently).

    Yep, this is the way it is folks. Wake up and (none / 0) (#258)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:06:04 PM EST
    smell the coffee.  Any more doubts that all this is done by arm-twisting, backroom deals, etc?  Change my a$$.

    Parent
    Obama didn't write the article. (1.00 / 4) (#203)
    by cannondaddy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:27:27 PM EST
    Bill's response was moronic.  It made a little story big.

    Question (none / 0) (#2)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:07:12 PM EST
    Jeralyn, how long does the 10-comment/day rule stick to "new" users before it relaxes? I've been a relatively new user here, and I've not exceeded the 10-comment/day limit yet (and don't foresee doing so anytime soon.)
    30 days (in case Jeralyn misses this) (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Eleanor A on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:57:14 PM EST
    You know, it's really not that hard to not post much, if you spend as much time lurking in here reading everything as I do :)

    Parent
    Jeralyn I sent you an e-mail (none / 0) (#4)
    by waldenpond on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:09:14 PM EST
    my answer was yes.

    Got it and we're working on it (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:12:28 PM EST
    It may take a day.

    Parent
    Jeralyn... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Addison on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:33:06 PM EST
    ...since this is an open thread, what is the problem your server runs into when there are over 200 comments? Is it software or hardware?

    Colin said the other day (none / 0) (#72)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:45:38 PM EST
    that it's a known limitation of Scoop. There's a modified version running at Daily Kos, but it's not available elsewhere.

    Parent
    Reader problem (none / 0) (#93)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:51:50 PM EST
    Don't know what the technology problem is, but aesthetics and readership gets to be impossible.  By 200, people have said it and all they are doing is bickering, repeating or going off topic.  

    Parent
    Wow... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Garmonbozia on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:38:22 PM EST
    "Get over it" is some very astute advice.

    I like Clogbloggers better... (none / 0) (#116)
    by citizen53 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:58:57 PM EST
    FWIW

    Does a Unity ticket provide insurance against ... (none / 0) (#117)
    by dwmorris on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:59:26 PM EST
    an October surprise???

    Hypothetical --- If the ticket is Obama/Clinton and the Republicans drop some bombshell, would Obama have the option to resign and reliquish the top of the ticket to Clinton? Is that allowed under the rules?

    Technically yes, you can't force some one (none / 0) (#241)
    by Radix on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:55:47 PM EST
    to be President. And nothing would preclude Clinton from running.

    Because there are no facts, there is no truth, Just data to be manipulated

    Don Henley-The Garden of Allah

    Parent

    I'm mainly asking about ballot access rules ... (none / 0) (#268)
    by dwmorris on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:17:30 PM EST
    in a GE. If Obama had to drop out, could Clinton move to the top of the ticket, name another VP, and appear on the various state ballots as a version 2.0 ticket (assuming printing deadlines aren't a problem) ... or would the party be required to run the slate from the convention and let the chips fall where they may.

    I'm guessing there are constraints depending on the circumstances because occassionally dead people are on the ballot ... but it doesn't hurt to ask if someone knows for sure how the ballot rules work.

    Parent

    Sigh. (none / 0) (#146)
    by pie on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:09:06 PM EST
    Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W. Va.) was admitted to the hospital for the third time this year on Monday night, this time for overnight observation after suffering a high fever.
    Byrd, 90, the longest-serving senator in U.S. history, was taken to a Virginia hospital in the early evening and will stay there overnight after feeling ill throughout the day, spokesman Jesse Jacobs said. Jacobs said Byrd had felt "lethargic and sluggish" throughout the day, but attended the lone Senate vote of the day, at 5:30 p.m.     He was one of 14 senators to vote against debating a climate change bill.
    Oh, dear. (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Radiowalla on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:16:29 PM EST
    He's really a mixed bag, isn't he?
    Well, I hope he recovers soon.

    Parent
    I hope he recovers (none / 0) (#192)
    by themomcat on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:23:10 PM EST
    but the last few times I watched Byrd on the Senate floor, he was lethargic and sluggish.

    Parent
    To BTD re: Clark... (none / 0) (#261)
    by kredwyn on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 10:09:04 PM EST
    I love the guy. He totally rocks.

    1. He'd never do it without her approval. He is, if anything, loyal as all get out.

    2. I don't see Gert really wanting him to get embroiled in a mess...and the GE is going to be a mess.

    3. He's got the gravitas...but I really don't see him being able to pull Obama out of the fire on the personal issues. And his FP experience is much much deeper than Obama's. It's going to look like he's "shoring up."

    4. I don't know...


    Blogcloggers? (none / 0) (#274)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:49 AM EST
    With wooden shoes?

    Blogcloggers : Open Thread | 232 comments (232 topical)