Ireland Debates Statutory Rape

By TChris, Section Crime Policy
Posted on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:07:14 PM EST
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With good reason, almost nobody believes that it should be legal for an adult to have sex with a ten year old child. But what about the 18 year old who participates in a sex act initiated by a 16 year old? What if the 16 year old lied about his or her age to the 18 year old?

The age at which a teenager is legally entitled to consent to sex varies from state to state, but tends to be in the range of 16 to 18. Some states treat "statutory rape" as a less serious offense if the adult and minor are not separated by more than 4 years of age. Some permit a defense of "mistake of age," but most do not.

Two years ago Ireland's Supreme Court struck down a statutory rape law because it did not permit a defense that the adult was reasonably mistaken about the minor's age. The Director of Public Prosecutions supports a referendum to restore the "strict liability" law; that is, mistake of age would not be a defense. Meanwhile the Irish parliament struggles to replace the law. It must decide whether to set an age at which the defense of mistake will not apply, and where to set the age of consent. Here's one view that American states would do well to adopt: trust juries. [more ...]

All parents want to protect their children, but their support for a strict liability law wanes when it is their 23-year-old son who is jailed for child rape when he has consensual sex with a 16-year-old girl who tells him she is 18 and looks 21. Juries know when an age gap is defensible or not: without adequate protections, restoring the offence of statutory rape may create as much injustice as it is intended to prevent.

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Ireland Debates Statutory Rape | 15 comments (15 topical)

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It's much more complex than age (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by MichaelGale on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:27:53 PM EST

I would think that if you have to ask the age, you just might not copulate.

While I am sure that many 16 year olds can be seductive to a 26+ year old man, she is still basically a child. Development isn't complete until around 17+.

As I said, this issue is much more complex than just age. Good for Ireland and their struggle to find a balance.

Granting your point, what is inherently (1.00 / 1) (#7)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:37:41 PM EST

wrong about the 16 year old girl having sex?
Isn't THAT a more complicated question than covered by the adult/child divide?


This reminds me of something. (1.00 / 1) (#8)
by MarkL on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 12:02:39 AM EST

I have attended exactly one hour of law school, sitting in on a law class with a friend. The topic happened to be exactly this.


No judgement (none / 0) (#10)
by MichaelGale on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 01:46:45 AM EST

about right and wrong. No moral view. Sex is fun and healthy. I'm just saying that 16 year olds are still developing...the brain is still growing so to speak. Peer to peer sex is usually based on intense emotions escalated by biological changes.

Having sex with an older man, as stated, can be detrimental due to her development. Between 16 and 23 there are stages of biological development and changes in psychological and social functioning. He may be there, she might not be.

Just saying, the issue is more than just age.

I Have A Bigger Problem (none / 0) (#15)
by squeaky on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 11:54:24 AM EST

With those whose brain has stopped growing than worrying about the damage sex will have on someone whose brain is still developing.

There needs to be built discretion and not rigidity on this issue.


: Sex more important than mental health? (none / 0) (#16)
by MichaelGale on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 10:16:22 PM EST

then you are supporting some big time mental problems if sex is more important than biological and psychological growth.

As someone that used to be (none / 0) (#12)
by splashy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:28:47 AM EST

A 16 year old, many of the girls don't fully understand what is happening in many ways.

The pressures on girls that age from so many men are intense. They are all over you, very aggressive and pushy. All a young girl has to do is look at them, or do something that can be remotely construed as seductive, like drinking from a water fountain, and they try to jump you. Then they will claim that she led them on.

I'm thinking that if there is any doubt, it is on the older person to make sure or go somewhere else.


Not my personal experience, but I know (2.00 / 1) (#5)
by MarkL on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:09:32 PM EST

it's not that uncommon for gay guys in their early teens to seek out men in their 20's or older for sex. I don't really see why sex should be a crime if both parties are willing, and if one is not in a position of authority over another.
My view is not very popular, I think, but statutory rape laws fight the natural course of events.

statuatory rape (none / 0) (#1)
by Tim V on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 02:28:23 PM EST

With children having sex at much younger ages than in the past, statuatory rape laws are out of date in many states. Certainly the age difference bewteeen the parties should be a mitigating factor ( 4 years seems to be a reasonable start ). My understanding is that age 14 is about the average age when children begin to have sex now.
My view is that the age of the minor should be reduced for statuatory rape cases and that the age difference should be considered but in the end, the state legislators should make the decision.

Should be tied to age for marriage (none / 0) (#2)
by DaleA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 03:29:00 PM EST

Should not the age be set at the same point where a person can enter into a valid marriage? In some states that age is 14. So, if a 23 year old can marry and then have sex with a 14 year old, why should the lack of a marriage certificate matter? Seems there needs to be consistency here.

When I was in high school, back in the 60's, the common solution to unwanted pregnancies was for the couple to go out of state, Indiana had an age of 14 then, marry and return as a married couple. The defense against statuatory rape was an offer of marriage.

In many Hispanic countries, the age of consent is set at 12. This is the time when a person reaches 'the age of reason' in Catholic theology.

Minimum Ages in Ireland (none / 0) (#3)
by DaleA on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:10:18 PM EST

In Ireland the age for marriage is currently 18. It was raised from 16 in 1995.

The current minimum age for marriage is 16 years. The High Court may grant exemption from this requirement. Under section 1 of the Marriages Act, 1972 a marriage involving a party under 16 years which had not received the requisite court approval would be void. Those under 21 years who wish to marry are, with certain exceptions, legally obliged to obtain the consent of parents or, where appropriate, guardians. The Family Law Act, 1995, increases the minimum age of marriage to 18 years and removes any requirement for parental consent. It also provides for a minimum period of notice of marriage of three months. There is provision for exemption by court order of the notice requirement to meet situations where the inflexible application of the requirement would be unfair.

At 15, people can quit school. They can also be charged as an adult for a crime. Which seems relevant here.

Sixteen (none / 0) (#9)
by Alec82 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 01:03:30 AM EST

Strikes the appropriate balance, 18 if it involves a teacher. That was the law I grew up with in MI, that's the law I support now. CA, ironically, is more restrictive, with 18 as the age of consent.

All lines that are drawn will be artificial, but I'm not particularly sympathetic to guys who want to have sex with 13-15 year olds (any situation lower than that is grotesque for me to imagine, as my sister is 12, and I'm being charitable believing that an 18 year old would even be interested in a fifteen year old). And while I am sure there are young teenagers, gay and straight, who find sex with older adults exciting, too bad. The laws serve a purpose.

Could the fact that women died in childbirth (none / 0) (#11)
by splashy on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 03:16:49 AM EST

A lot have something to do with that too?

It was not uncommon for men to have had several wives, with all the previous ones having died from childbirth or complications related to child bearing. The older ones were usually already married.

: Having children every year or so (none / 0) (#17)
by splashy on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 02:23:17 AM EST

Can really run a woman down, especially if she starts very young. The fetus takes what it needs, the woman gets what's left. If she doesn't get enough, she suffers. That's why they tell women that prenatal supplements are for her, not the fetus.
So, even if it isn't necessarily the pregnancy and childbirth that kills her, the fact she is run down from carrying and nursing children can do it by weakening her.

One thing to remember... (none / 0) (#14)
by kdog on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:58:16 AM EST

is that just because something may not be kosher...like a 20 year old sleeping with a 16 years old...doesn't mean it should be criminal.

With an issue with so much grey area, the law cannot be rigid. You need wiggle room to sort out the predators from the honest mistakes. Good for Ireland in trying to leave some wiggle room under the law so they're not locking people up unnecessarily.