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Obama to Cross 2,118 Threshold Momentarily

Barack Obama is moments away from reaching the 2,118 pledged delegate threshold. CNN says he is 12 away.

The media has declared him the Democratic nominee and is beginning the post-mortem.

Will Hillary agree he has won the nomination and suspend her campaign tonight after all?

I'll be live-blogging her speech.

Comments closed.

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  • I know this is rude (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:38:17 PM EST
    but are they trying to say he's reached the magic number but ignoring he was given Clinton's delegates?  That's a little uhhhh pathetic.

    walden....obama does NOT care as long as (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:39:10 PM EST
    he wins.  I am not sure he even cares about the GE right now.

    Parent
    CNN not Obama (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:58 PM EST
    I know CNN is trying to get their guy over the finish line... it would just make sense to recognize that the DNC followed no rules when taking Clinton's delegates, they should wait until he at least makes the number on his own not the ones the DNC took.

    Parent
    walden....that would be done by a honorable (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:14 PM EST
    man....not sure if that word would ever apply to
    obama.

    And you can see how his trolls are milling about like cockroaches here waiting to strike.  They have jumped the gun.  It isn't over til August.

    Parent

    By Any Means Necessary (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:59:23 PM EST
    I feel with this "countdown" like we are all waiting for the ball in Times Square to Drop.  That's not how the winner of the Dem nom is supposed to be "crowned" the Dem nom.  Trickling in, slowly, one at a time, drip, drip, drip.  

    And, meanwhile people in two states are still voting in this democracy of ours and nobody seems to care it's all about Obama.

    Just watching a bit of asshats Matthews and KO and they are still dissing HRC along with Bill with help from Brokaw.  And, so it goes. Pop go the weasels, all of them.

    And, we still are waiting for someone to care about SD and Montana.  

    Parent

    Another example of IOKIYAOS (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:39:48 PM EST
    hoping this isn't OT but...

    (ps, it means It's OK if you're an Obama supporter)

    The orange blog has a current front-page post which basically says

    Clinton "Clinton Open to Being Obama's Veep.  I'm Open to Being the Detroit Tigers' Second Baseman."

    I almost posted a GBCW diary right then, but I've resisted.  And I voted for Obama.

    It's DH, think nothing of it. . . (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:40:57 PM EST
    He is a j^*% and an a*&^*&^e. (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:31 PM EST
    Had to get that out of my system.

    I once wrote a civil comment criticizing his take on a debate, and in reply he called me pathological!  This was from a front page poster, and a former congressional staff!

    I always thought that was par for course.  Like their other pravda-like efforts to smear Clinton and her supporters to drive us away.  I guess he really wanted me to lose it, and so they could be justified in banning me/ or let a mob do the autoban.

    Parent

    What? (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:57 PM EST
    You don;t think DH has any chance of being the Tigers second baseman?

    What struck me about that post was this - DH is a smart guy, he would normally know how stupid it is to compare his chances of being a baseball player with Hillary's chances of being VP.

    But his drive for being what he is overcame his usual intelligence.

    Parent

    I won't try internet psychology but. . . . (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:02 PM EST
    Don't we sometimes joke about what we fear may come true?

    Parent
    Does he have intelligence? (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:25 PM EST
    To me someone could be shrewd/clever.  But I consider intelligence to be a positive quality and reflective of character as well as understanding.  To be intelligent requires a person to have fairness and integrity as well as smarts.  

    Parent
    IMO...Hillary is waiting for the convention (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:06 PM EST
    where they will be voting her the nominee.  I say that because obama will be so battered and bruised from what the GOP has thrown at him, that he will be glad to let Hillary run with the nomination.  That is what comes from crowning yourself king of the hill without any experience or qualifications.

    Parent
    Me too. (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:16 PM EST
    BO has a rude awakening coming. Hillary used kid gloves on him. The GOP will not be so gracious.

    Parent
    I've said this before, but a measure of (5.00 / 8) (#74)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:54:53 PM EST
    Obama's weakness as a candidate is how stupid he has turned his supporters. Josh Marshall, Atrios, DH, Aravosis---all blithering, foaming at the mouth idiots now. We saw the same effect with Bush.
    Hillary draws the best out of people, in contrast.

    Parent
    PS, only BTD has been immune (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:12:28 PM EST
    ---yay BTD!

    Parent
    I feel for you, Fleet (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by suki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:23 PM EST
    It was hard to see that site disintegrate - very depressing. It's made me really appreciate this place and a few others. Hang in there.

    Parent
    Not enough Obama supporters stepped up... (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:07 PM EST
    over there to speak against the hate speech that appeared each and every day.

    The intolerance of dissent in the progressive blogoshere is sad.  So easy to personalize and demonize others.

    It's not just the other side who engages in this conduct, though I was under the impression that we stood for something better.


    Parent

    Most of the civilized people left (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:06:02 PM EST
    The few who remain are afraid to say anything because they will be troll-rated out of existence. I have stopped even wandering in to peek at what is going on. It's too sad to see supposed progressives acting that way. The freepers are more civilized.

    Parent
    Ironic... (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:27 PM EST
    that your final remark is even close to the reality.

    But it certainly is.

    Parent

    Maxine Waters says it all (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Newt on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:40:05 PM EST

    Senator Hillary Clinton has run a superb campaign and has proven to be a hard worker while gaining the support of many key constituencies that will be essential for Democratic success in November.

    It is now time to close ranks and time for all remaining delegates to put their support behind the presumptive nominee, Senator Obama. Senator Obama has run an effective campaign and has overcome many obstacles to create an energy that has brought many new Democrats into the party. Together, both of these candidates have generated an unprecedented involvement in Democratic Party politics. This is something that all Democrats can be proud of.



    Yes, it will be time to gather around (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:42:44 PM EST
    McCain for millions of Hillary supporters.

    Parent
    Yep, it'll (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:12 PM EST
    be a vote against Obama and this DNC that represents only their self-center egotistical selves.

    Parent
    Egotistic Selves? (3.66 / 3) (#94)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:58:47 PM EST
    You are not sounding so humble yourself..   just sayin....


    Parent
    Let me know when 2012 starts up (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:09:23 PM EST
    I'm on board and rarin' ta go!!!

    Parent
    Take It To Red State (3.00 / 2) (#140)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    TL is not supporting McCain.

    Parent
    Point Is (1.00 / 1) (#220)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:32:55 PM EST
    That right wing sites are appropriate for supporting McCain, not TL. If that seems dubious to you, than you must have missed this.

    Parent
    In Your Wingnut Dreams (2.33 / 3) (#23)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:36 PM EST
    Correction: in your Democratic Nightmares... (5.00 / 7) (#29)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:58 PM EST
    There will be many of us, life long democrats (and in my case ex-democrat) who will at best not vote for Obama this Nov.

    Parent
    Hey (1.00 / 1) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:49 PM EST
    One thing we can count on is that things change. The neocons were once Democrats too...

    Parent
    What the f? (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    That doesn't even make sense.

    Parent
    How So? (3.00 / 2) (#62)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:27 PM EST
    The fact that things change is inevitable, or that the neocons were once also lifelong Democrats.

    Parent
    And the progressives were once Republican! (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:33 PM EST
    And they (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:14 PM EST
    had actual policy differences to pursue as a reason for breaking away. Pursuing McCain's policies on health care, defense, foreign policy, housing, unemployment, terrorism, the executive branch and the separation of powers, reproductive rights, discrimination based on sexual orientation, the environment, education, science, corporate ethics, trade, etc. seems weird, given that Hillary has said repeatedly she and Obama share basic outlooks on those issues.

    But after this campaign Obama has some outreach to do, no question.

    Parent

    She Did NOT Say... (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by AmyinSC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:13 PM EST
    They were IDENTICAL, though.  Clinton has LONG been a stalwart suppoter of LGBT Rights, fro instance.  Obama?  Not so much.  Abortion Rights?  Clinton, most DEFINITELY.  Obama?  Well, yes, but those progressives just don't realize what a painful decision it is!  (HIS words)  And, I can GUARANTEE you that Clinton NEVER said she wanted to return to the Foreign Policies of George H.W. BUSH!!!!  So, YEAH - that's a big change for a Dem!  ANd you cannot minimize the vast amount of damage done BY OBAMA in terms of sexism.  He is mighty guilty of it, and many of us will NOT forget that come November (unless you think we older women just cannot remember things for that long - you know, being menopausal and all!). Obama did WAY too much damage to the base for many of us to just dismiss.  There are actually consequences to actions.  

    The bottom line is that he is NOT the nominee yet.  Denver is when it all happens.

    Parent

    Sorry For You (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:41 PM EST
    That you think Hillary is any different than most Politicians. Between those googoo eyed over Obama and Hillary fanatics it seems that many have lost perspective about where we are and who are our choices.

    Oh well, I guess suspension of disbelief is our national pastime, I am just surprised that so many do it with Politicians.

    Parent

    Yes They Are Both Mainstream Dems (none / 0) (#132)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:19 PM EST
    But, some supporters are basically fanclubbers and care much more about personality than policy. Or it could be that many who naturally leaned to the right attached to Hillary because they thought she was more to the right than she actually is and believed Obama to be more left than he actually is.

    Parent
    I'll remember Waters jumping like a rat (none / 0) (#154)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:04 PM EST
    from the ship today, when a certain day in November arrives.

    Parent
    I cannot begin... (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Liberty4 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:41:44 PM EST
    to express how completely and utterly sad I am at this moment. I know BTD and Jeralyn you both have solidly and unequivically stated that you will support the Democratic nominee, but I do not feel like celebrating... I feel like we have just tipped off the cliff into an abyss...

    Liberty4....don't start planning the funeral (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:38 PM EST
    yet!!  There is a convention coming up and nothing is set in stone until then.

    Parent
    I hope you're right. (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by rnibs on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:19 PM EST
    I feel terrible sadness like Liberty4.

    If Obama is the nominee, I'll respect Jeralyn's wishes and not post anything negative here, but I just can't vote for the man.  I think he represents the wrong way for the Democratic party to be heading.  I always felt good about the party before and I just don't now.  I'll vote Dem downticket, because we'll need a Dems to hold off McCain's stuff, but it's just so sad.  And we could have had such a great president.  

    Parent

    Don't know how accurate this is..... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by vml68 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:16:08 PM EST
    I just read that Bob Beckel said on Fox news that a bombshell Obama video will come out tommorrow. Anyone else see that?
    I know this site does not do rumors so Please delete if against the rules.
    I just figured if they actually said it on the news then there is something behind it.

    Parent
    Yes. I saw that. (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:32:42 PM EST
    Stay tuned.

    Parent
    Funny thing is that (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:20 PM EST
    I don't know how accurate those estimates are.

    Both CNN and RCP have Texas at 99-94, whereas the caucus results (which are not yet final) were 37-30, and so the final results are: 98-95 (a net difference of 2 delegates).  

    Delegates for Iowa and some other places are not finalized, and as we know Michigan delegates were stolen (to the tune of 55+8 half delegates or 27.5+4 in final numbers).

    This has been the most shameful episode of media choosing an empty suit and forcing him down the throat of a whole nation.

    By the way, if you want Hillary not to concede, contact her campaign and tell them.  

    The TX delegates are not selected-. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:26 PM EST
    In fact, Hillary could end up with a big win there, according to Txpolitico67

    Parent
    Yeh, every list counts Feingold (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:45 PM EST
    as for Obama, although my Senator has repeatedly refused to declare, commit, etc.  None of the lists of delegates, pledged and/or super-delegates, is from an official party source.

    None, nada, zip.  I don't get why any site ought to be believed, as each comes up with different numbers -- even the vaunted RealClearPolitics.com, which has had pledged delegate counts differing from day to day when there have not been primaries and/or state convention results.

    So Obama coronates himself, and RealClearPolitics is the new Ministry of Information.  It's all nonsense -- but we are being the fools in the court to support such sources.

    Parent

    Again, Hill has won 60% (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:02 PM EST
    of the final contests.  Obama, 40%.  I consider Guam a draw.

    HRC:
    OH
    TX
    RI
    PA
    IN
    WV
    KY
    PR
    SD

    BO:
    VT
    WY
    MISS
    NC
    OR
    MT

    This high theater tonight seems odd for a presumptive nominee who has lost the four last months of the primary.  There's something disturbing about all this, speaking only for me.


    Like Bill Cosby's definition of (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:53 PM EST
    Academic honor...

    this is a thank you laude win, at best.

    Parent

    BTD, I'd like a comment on this. (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:55:07 PM EST
    Come on, look at this list.  What do you think of nominting the guy who peaked in February?

    Parent
    I'm betting (none / 0) (#170)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:34 PM EST
    BTD doesn't answer because BTD is in GE mode already.

    Parent
    Jumping Off (none / 0) (#174)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    your very-valid point about peaking in February...

    Now if Wrightgate, Bittergate, Proudgate, and Pflegergate had come after NH, SC or NV, we'd be in a totally different place right now.

    But of course, when these issues peaked, the Obama surrogates and supporters were already high and drunk on the Kool-aid and the spin-machine was running in high gear.

    Parent

    VERY DISTURBING. (none / 0) (#180)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:58 PM EST
    The MSM, DC elites and the DNC chose BO. We had nothing to do with it.

    Parent
    Hey (none / 0) (#189)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:02 PM EST
    I'm pretty proud of that fact thank you very much. ;)

    Parent
    The media with its analysis... (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:28 PM EST
    no thanks.

    All this technology around us, and on many of the most important matters, we have gone backwards.

    A country with any real ability to think, and not be told, would not have re-elected Bush in 2004.

    A great argument can be made that 2008 will be an example of how things are getting even worse.

    Obama is better than McCain.  But look at how we have gotten Obama, or almost Clinton.

    A campaign devoid of issues and policy.  Anything but.  The American way of 2008.

    To be fair... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:38 PM EST
    ...I think we got a lot chances to look at the candidates policies early on in this process (it has been going on for almost two years now!).  This whole primary process was remarkably civil and substantive up until -- and I'm going by memory -- say February.  It's really only been the past three months that have been ugly and vapid, and even that is tepid compared to the scumfest(tm) we were put through in 2004.

    The media as it exists today, will always go for the cheap, hot, sexy story over the issues.  Always.  We know the Republicans will go for them, because they can't win on the issues.

    We have to be ready for it, and use the technology available to us to shout them down.  If we want substance, we're going to have to demand it.

    Parent

    Rachel Maddow says Hillary Clinton now has (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:45:16 PM EST
    zero leverage in the Democratic Party. I'll bet 17 million people disagree. I seriously doubt I'll vote for him. Sorry to let you down andgarden, BTD and Steve, three of my favortie guys. I just don't see how I can do it.

    Exactly. She wins final fourt months (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by masslib on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:31 PM EST
    of a protracted primary, wins the pop vote, and has no leverage?  WTH are these people?

    Parent
    Because Edwards has 0 leverage (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by FleetAdmiralJ on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:20 PM EST
    after losing the nomination....twice!

    Parent
    Time to announce (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:54 PM EST
    her independent run.  If she has no leverage in the D's, what does she have to lose?

    Parent
    My respect (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:09 PM EST
    She won't do it anyway.

    Parent
    Why in the world (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:25 PM EST
    would she lose your respect if she turned her back on a party that loathes her?

    Parent
    Because she promised that she would support (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:33 PM EST
    the nominee. I still expect she will, so it's not a real worry.

    Parent
    Have you gone off the rails? (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:45 PM EST
    Why is it that everyone wants to hold Clinton to every word she's ever uttered but its okay for Obama to twist, turn and do nothing?

    I'm waiting calmly for whatever comes firm in my resolve, that I will not sanction what was done in this primary. I'm off the ARRRSE.

    Parent

    Because party loyalty matters to me (none / 0) (#107)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:01:39 PM EST
    If I had thought there was any chance of Hillary not supporting the Democratic nominee, I would not have voted for her in April. It's a non-negotiable issue as far as I'm concerned.

    Parent
    If party loyalty mattered to you (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:12:59 PM EST
    you'd realize she has gotten very little and would concede that she doesn't owe them anything.

    Don't be such an authoritarian follower.  Party loyalty is a silly concept.  That's one step behind cultist.

    Parent

    Whatever (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:59 PM EST
    I am delighted that Hillary does not agree with you.

    Parent
    I haven't seen much party loyalty toward (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:00 PM EST
    Hillary.  They have screwed her over every which way to Sunday.  Someone posted earlier they thought she could win in a three-way race....I believe that is correct.  Would Bill be able to run as her VP?  :)

    Parent
    Party loyalty? (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by MMW on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:30 PM EST
    This isn't a club. YOU ELECT THEM, THEY WORK FOR YOU. Act like it. Expect them to do their jobs.
    Insist they do their jobs. Don't just rollover. How do you expect to change anything? Tell me, what do you see him accomplishing that you want to see happen?

    Or is this just the superbowl? Where you're just happy your team won.

    Parent

    Politics is a team sport (none / 0) (#201)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:57 PM EST
    Sorry.

    Parent
    Hm, I think party loyalty (none / 0) (#222)
    by Boo Radly on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:36:28 PM EST
    goes both ways. I think Bill Clinton - the only two term Democratic President in fifty years owes the party nothing at this point.

    I really can't understand how anyone could use that as a reason to burden these two - Hillary and Bill with the chore of shoring up BO. I like my candidates strong and worthy - really cuts down on the "work" - know what I mean?

    If you are feeling bad about that vote for Hillary now, well, BO has been given some much that he did not earn - take it out of those so you don't feel so cheated. Gawd forbid anyone feel cheated.

    Parent

    she can support the dem nominee (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:53 PM EST
    and still run against him.

    Parent
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#112)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:46 PM EST
    I agree with (5.00 / 0) (#141)
    by dk on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:26 PM EST
    Andgarden that we need leaders like Hillary to stay in the party and fight the good fight.  We need people there to strive to keep the party on the right track, and not let Obama ruin it completely.

    The question I'm still wrestling with is what we, as simple voters, should do.  Should we vote for Obama in November, and hope that the long term damage he will do to the party isn't too great.  Or, do we opt out in this election and hope he loses so that he gets discredited sooner rather than later (and we teach the village and the media a lesson in how we feel about their toxic CDS and misogyny).  I'm leaning toward the latter at this point, but I'll keep an open mind.

    Parent

    Of course she will. (none / 0) (#82)
    by sweetthings on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:20 PM EST
    Clinton is a professional politician and a solid gold Democrat. Everything she wants to see accomplished in this country is easier done with President Obama than President McCain. I have no doubt she'll do whatever she can to make sure the Dems reclaim the White House this year...even accept the VP slot, if the Powers That Be will it.

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:03 PM EST
    Your respect and $2.00 will get her a cup of coffee.

    Few have shown HER any respect. Why does she owe the Democrats anything.

    Tell me one reason why.

    Parent

    Self Respect (none / 0) (#133)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:22 PM EST
    She has said that she would support Obama if he is the candidate. She is an honorable person who will not go back on her word.

    Parent
    AS the nominee of PUMA. (5.00 / 0) (#106)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:01:25 PM EST
    I love that!  Riverdaughter kicks ass.

    for those not reading The Confluence (and missing a lot!), PUMA stands for Party Unity My Ass un-party.  

    Parent

    Why are you listening to these people? (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:21 PM EST
    Maddow is not only toxic, she's wrong. Ted Kennedy, with far fewer delegates, was modifying the platform all the way up to the convention.

    Parent
    I switched to the other hate site, CNN. Bad but (none / 0) (#60)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:18 PM EST
    not as bad. I just wanted to see if in victory, could they show a little bit of class. No, none.

    Per SD closed primary, only 60% will support Obama. This is bad andgarden.

    Parent

    Do yourselves a favor (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:04:54 PM EST
    turn on Fox. They hate both democrats equally, so at least it's fair coverage.  

    Jack Cafferty makes me sick.  What a miserable f***.  

    Parent

    Jack Cafferty (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:28 PM EST
    he should get an a** of the day award. He has been awful, when he comes on I switch to fox.

    Parent
    Only 60 percent of Dems... (none / 0) (#116)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:04:49 PM EST
    ...will vote for Obama if he's the nominee?

    Holy moly, the numbers of Dems committed to not voting for him in many states is at a dangerous level for the party.

    Parent

    I have yet (none / 0) (#225)
    by Grace on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    to meet anyone who plans to vote for Obama in the General Election.  Even my dad, who voted for him in the Primary, changed his mind when all the Reverend Wright videos came out.  

    However!  I do believe I've seen a house a few miles away that had a yard sign!  

    Parent

    Rachel doesn't get to (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:33 PM EST
    decide anything. She is usually not prone to such over the top statements. It is dumb to suggest Clinton has no leverage and she knows that...

    Parent
    She has LOTS of leverage, which is (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:34 PM EST
    exactly why they are trying to force her out.
    I think if Hillary stays in she has an excellent chance of winning the nomination. Obama's support is too shallow.

    Parent
    Lucky for us Maddow lost any pretense of (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:50:00 PM EST
    credibility months ago. If MSNBC says the sun is shining, I check the window.

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:53 PM EST
    Rachel Maddow is one of the pundits who now (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:22 PM EST
    has zero credibility with about 17 million people.

    Parent
    Maddow has proven... (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by AX10 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:00 PM EST
    herself to be no better than the other mediashills.
    There is nothing special about her.
    Obama's people will learn the hard way that dancing on Hillary's grave will come back to haunt them on November 4th.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by standingup on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    Well the Democratic record of winning presidential elections is nothing to write home about either Rachel.  

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:11 PM EST
    Personally I do not lobby anyone.  Just because I'm willing to be a big ol' sucker for the Democratic Party doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

    We'll see what happens by November.  I might feel differently, you might feel differently.  A lot can change.  One thing I've gained from reading this site is that I feel I really, truly understand where people on all sides of this debate are coming from.

    Parent

    yeah, a lot can change Steve. I've never even (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:44 PM EST
    held my nose to vote before. I liked them all. I guess I'm coming at this from the granddaughter of a woman that had me at the polls at the age of eight handing out cards for every Democrat running. From a big brother who worked for Clinton's and Gore's campaign who died at 42 and who loved them. We have hand written condolences from them. They mean more to me than winning in November right now. I should be ashamed, but right now, I can't be.

    Parent
    Ridiculous (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:29 PM EST
    Given Obama's anemic crawl across the 'finish line', he's going to need her enthusiastic, genuine support to win in November.  She has all the leverage in the world.

    Parent
    Rachel Maddow? (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:16:29 PM EST
    Isn't she that brilliant "Rhodes Scholar" who said that when Obama was flicking the dirt off his shoulders, it wasn't misogynistic, he was simply doing some really cool rap dance moves...even though the song and the artist referenced by Obama's "really cool rap moves" are extremely vile and misogynistic?

    Talk about being totally clueless! Or is that willfully ignorant?


    Parent

    And Rachel Maddow (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:54 PM EST
    has zero credibility now. I can't believe how much I use to love her. Everyone I liked in the media is a BO supporter. It's all so surreal.

    Parent
    How does Rachel (none / 0) (#38)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:48:24 PM EST
    figure this?

    Parent
    Well that is (none / 0) (#204)
    by PlayInPeoria on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:20:58 PM EST
    what this is going to become... zero leverage for the Clintons in the Dem Party.

    But Sen Clinton has class... she will continue doing everything she can for the Dem Party..... including taking the VP if offered.

    (I do not see her being offered the VP)

    Parent

    That's just nonsense (none / 0) (#214)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:26:19 PM EST
    Clinton has an enormous amount of leverage right now.   Not enough to be the nominee, but probably enough to get just about any position she wants, or gain big concessions from the Obama camp.

    Which is how it should be.  She's done a phenomenal job gaining support for herself.  She deserves a great deal of credit for what she's done.

    Parent

    No, not with pledged delegates (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:45 PM EST
    it has been entirely on the supers that have switched today and the few Edwards delegates who switched as well.

    CNN is also now trashing Hillary clinton terribly. I just heard an Obama supporter and GOPer talking about her and Bill and it made me sick.

    She only was in the race because she was Bill's wife...Bill is a terrible hot head...Obama is Bobby Kennedy...

    This is not the way for unity...not the way to heal...I do not believe he will offer VP.

    Holy SD and MT batman (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by karen for Clinton on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:05 PM EST
    What a load of crap.

    Fer cryin' out loud.

    Hillary go get them all and teach them some ethics and some manners.

    This makes BTD's thread about how to handle it a moot point.

    Straight for the throat.

    Stunning arrogance and timing too.

    Voter suppression just like the RBC.

    Revenge is not merely a dish to be served cold (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by Ellie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:22:47 PM EST
    But deep ruby gelato with Framboise, creme fraiche and a cherry on top.

    Sen Clinton stays in it, even if suspending her campaign, even while awaiting the official sanctioning of the Dem nominee.

    TeamO had better enjoy the latest premature endzone dance because a nano-second afterwards they're slated to be tube-fed a dumptruck of what they've been dishing out by the creeps who invented modern day dirty pool.

    Obama did promise to make Unity with these guys, and guess what?

    They're heeeeeeeerrrrre ...

    Parent

    No, he is now 10 delegates away (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by JoeA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:56 PM EST
    before the pledged delegates from todays contests are allocated.  

    An Obama Contradiction (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:03 PM EST
    If you've noticed, as I have, whenever someone endorses Obama, they always repeat the same canned phrase "I support Obama because of his unique ability to unite the country".

    Like this:

    "Today, Congresswoman Maxine Waters (D-CA) endorsed Barack Obama for President. Waters switched her endorsement from Clinton to Obama citing his ability to unite the country and leadership on issues such as the housing crisis and war in Iraq."

    Yet, the Obama campaign and most of his supporters are saying that it is all up to Hillary to unite the country.

    If this is true, that a candidate's ability to unite the country" is the number one reason to support someone, then it sure looks to me like the Obama campaign and his supporters think that person should be Hillary Clinton.

    I know (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:54:01 PM EST
    Wasn't Maxine the one who said something like, "Hope doesn't put food on your family"  (Yeah, I'm deliberately mixing it up with Bush).

    The Democratic politicians are everything the Republicans say they are. LOL.

    Parent

    He isn't even able to unite (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by sickofhypocrisy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:58:40 PM EST
    the party, HTF is he going to unite the country?  

    Parent
    I never thought I would say this, but it (none / 0) (#90)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:26 PM EST
    appears Maxine Waters has lost her freakin' mind!!
    They can crossover re-crossover, crossover again and it doesn't mean a damn thing until the convension.

    Parent
    I'd hate to imagine the pressure Maxine Waters (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:43 PM EST
    is getting right now... imagine the phone call:

    'Hold for Speaker Pelosi, please...

    "Maxine, Hi! How are you! I just wanted to let you know, if you want any legislation to make it to the floor this session or next, you'd better come to a decision. We need a unified party right now.

    No, I'm not threatening you, but you know how many bills are introduced... and those high positions, committee chairs and such, well, there are LOTS of qualified CO-OPERATIVE representatives... some might have more seniority and be considered by the leadership more qualified on the INTANGIBLES, you know.

    Well, you're free to support qhomever you want, Maxine. Just remember, there are good reasons for unity, thought."

    Just my imagination, I'm sure.

    Parent

    exactly! (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Josey on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:58 PM EST
    the elite DC establishment supporting Obama has more incentives to offer Congressional SDs to endorse Obama. More earmarks, upgraded committee assignments, etc.
    But NBC had to deceive the world tonight - "a little skinny kid (they didn't say 'with a funny name') took down the Clinton machine" - as if a newly elected senator would begin plotting a presidential run without the backing of the Establishment.
    The Establishment propped up Obama and has worked longggg and hard to keep Hillary off the ticket.
    I'm glad she mentioned something about being VP nominee cause it puts the Establishment in a bind to say 'no' - and she probably knows they will.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#153)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:45 PM EST
    I don't think the man or woman has been born who can strong-arm Maxine Waters.

    Parent
    Everybody has their price (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:16 PM EST
    She has to have been under extreme pressure to support Obama. It may not have been for personal political gain. She may have simply been convinced that if she didn't support Obama then her black constituents would be hurt. I've heard that Jackson has been threatening black superdelegates with primary challenges if they don't support Obama. Given the standards for this campaign, it would not surprise me.

    Parent
    Maxime Waters (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:29 PM EST
    an ardent Clinton supporter from CA has switched to Obama.
    The pressure AA SD have had has been shameful. It seems that is
    what Hillary was asking Obama to stop in their 2 1/2 min. phone conversation.  

    Well... good luck DNC.   Your are on your own.

    It's all because of thuggery (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by OxyCon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:14 PM EST
    The AAs that supported Hillary have to jump ship in order to save their own careers because of the thuggish tactics of the "newkindpolitics". Now that it appears that Obama will be coronated regardless, it's time for Hillary's AA supporters to get out while the goings good.

    Parent
    I feel the same way when... (5.00 / 3) (#131)
    by stefystef on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:13 PM EST
    I heard Maxine made the flip.

    Watching the Democratic Party rally around the wrong candidate yet AGAIN makes me realize that I need to leave the Democratic Party.

    Good luck Obama followers.  You just lost 50% of the Party.

    Parent

    she probably got a call... (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:09:05 PM EST
    ...from Jesse Jackson Jr. threatening her with a well-funded primary opponent if she didn't cave.

    Parent
    Yep, chicago rules. (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:00 PM EST
    Choosing McCain (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by lgm on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:49:53 PM EST
    John McCain is not great for women.  He's very conservative -- opposing abortion and workplace fairness.  He's anti worker.  He wants to extend and deepen the Bush tax cuts for the rich.  He wants to bomb and invade countries (Iran, Syria, ...).  He wants more Supreme Court justices like Scalia.  It's not clear why anyone remotely interested in Clinton would vote for McCain.

    Voting for McCain (5.00 / 7) (#79)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:06 PM EST
    is more about righting the Democratic sinking ship, rather than endorsing McCain.

    We don't want the party to become the party of latte liberls and AA's and screw the little guy.  If Obama wins, that's where it will go.

    If Obama loses, the party leadership is purged and maybe replaced with others who understand why we're (we WERE) Democrats.

    And I know about Supreme Court picks.  Someone will have to walk down to the Congress and show little Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi which category of the life tree they fall within -- the vertebrates!

    Parent

    The Vertebrate Party! (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:45 PM EST
    Let's vote for them.

    Parent
    African Americans... (1.00 / 0) (#152)
    by brad12345 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:31 PM EST
    ...aren't the little guy?
    We don't want the party to become the party of latte liberls and AA's and screw the little guy.

    Parent
    Well, ya know (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:03 PM EST
    maybe the 20-something BO supporters should have thought about Roe v. Wade before they supported BO. They could have supported a woman who has spent her entire life fighting for women's rights and they chose not to. Their loss because I am tired of having that wedge issue thrown in my face as a way to get my vote. I don't care about R v. W anymore.

    As for the other issues? Oh well! You'll just have to live with the results of choosing a losing candidate over one that could blow McCain out of the water! That will be a lessoned learned, right?

    You had a choice and you made it and now you get to live with that choice...as bad as it is.

    Parent

    Leaving aside Clinton's many male supporters... (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:50 PM EST
    ...why don't you start making the case in the positive for your own candidate?

    Encouraging him to put up a web page on his site for women's issues would be a good start (and one I fully expect him to make once the Pander Drive takes hold).

    Parent

    I believe he has (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    A week or two ago I think I saw a diary on MyDD indicating that he had finally, after being urged repeatedly to do so, put up a page specifically regarding women's issues.

    The response from the Obama supporters was, I hate to say, the kind of freaky thing that fuels the cultist meme.  "Look how responsive he is to criticism!"  "Won't it be wonderful to have a President who listens to people again?"  On and on and on...

    Parent

    I'm not voting for McCain (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:24 PM EST
    I'm voting against Obama (IF that's the choice in November).

    Parent
    Obama has been horrible for women (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:51 PM EST
    even as a candidate, so I do not look forward to how bad it would be for us if he got in the White House.

    As for SCOTUS, let all the young women who want him to be president go defend the clinics that I don't even need anymore.  Let them spend less on CDs and concerts and clothes and tattoos to support NARAL.  I'm done doing it for them.

    Parent

    Speechless (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:14 PM EST
    I've been watching CNN for the last hour or so, and in that span of time, Hillary has lost 5 superdelegates and Obama's gained 9.

    What I don't understand is why would superdels for Hillary jump ship today? Is it really necessary?

    And watch as Hillary's is pushed into the ditch as they place the crown on the other one.

    sigh It's a truly sad day. And it just makes me speechless.

    The NYT article on Sunday covered this (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:54:18 PM EST
    In it, Bill Richardson is quoted as pressuring another Superdelegate to get behind Obama by June 3 because after then, no favors.

    That's why they're jumping ship. Rats.

    Parent

    They will declare now.. but would they (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:55:40 PM EST
    vote for Obama in August? For many of them, I'm sure the answer is no---not when they see the polls.

    Parent
    if the GOP succeeds in blowing Obama out (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:28 PM EST
    of the water by August, I'm sure the rats will swim back to the USS Hillary. ;)

    Parent
    It could be good strategy for the (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:23 PM EST
    Republicans to try to ruin Obama before August.
    It's a two-fer: if Hillary is then nominated, the Obama supporters will be so mad THEY will switch; if Obama is the nominee anyway, then the GOP will have already  defined him as a loser.

    Parent
    Same political crap (5.00 / 4) (#150)
    by stefystef on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:19 PM EST
    So, what you are saying is the Obama is playing the same old political game of favors and back-door deals that he pretends he doesn't get involved in.  So superdelegates are being bullied, Chicago style, into voting for Obama.  

    Corrupt Chicago politics goes national!

    When the Republicans rake Obama's butt over the coals, I won't lift a finger to say a word.  

    Good bye, DNC.  You won't have the "Bubba" Class to kick around anymore.

    Parent

    Cowards (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by Davidson on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:22 PM EST
    They believe there's safety in numbers so the more that jump on the express to political suicide, the less chance they'll be individually held responsible for it in November.

    Parent
    Richardson is truly (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:36 PM EST
    beyond even vile.  I was never a big fan of his, but wow.

    Parent
    yep--this nomination has been like turning over (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:48 PM EST
    a rock. "Ewwww! You, too?"

    Parent
    You know (5.00 / 4) (#115)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:03:52 PM EST
    if the Clintons were employing these same tactics you bet the media would be wall to wall with diatribes about how horrible and ruthless those Clintons are.

    Obama can use the same strong-arm tactics and everyone is like, well golly gee, of course that's how politics works, who could possibly complain?  It's amazing.

    Parent

    This is disgusting (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:02 PM EST
    Those who supported her should have had some backbone, decency, class and loyalty to her to at least wait until tomorrow.  

    As BTD said in his beautiful post about HRC, give her room to be tonight because of the significant of this loss in so many ways.  

    Why couldn't those five wait?  

    Besides Waters, who were the other four who did this today, does anyone know?

    Sickening is what it is.

    Parent

    Obama (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by Andy08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:14 PM EST
    is claiming new Edwards pledged delegates  in his numbers for pledged delegates already: 4 or 5 of them.
    This is according to their own site.

    There's close to 300 pledged delegates (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ChiTownDenny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:51:43 PM EST
    available in SD and MT?

    Remember, they are BIG states. (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:43 PM EST
    A lot of people wish they lived in Montana. Thus, the will of the wannabe montanans.

    Parent
    I think she can agree that he has the (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:52:42 PM EST
    delegates he needs as calculated after the recent RBC decisions, but I think there may still be enough question about whether those decisions will stand that she would be foolish to acknowledge that Obama has won the nomination; if she does that the media will never let her utter another word about it.

    I don't see why she has to make the decision to suspend her campaign tonight, or even tomorrow or even this week, nor do I think she should be pressured to do so.

    Driving home tonight, I was entertaining the thought of whether there would be anything that could change the outcome - what exactly would it take for the delegates to be convinced that Hillary is the better candidate when nothing has done that so far?  

    Will there even be any more polling?  I suppose that if Obama does not seem to be able to pull convincingly ahead of McCain, I can see the media doing that thing where they pretend they weren't instrumental in creating this match-up, and asking things like, "Did the Democratic superdelegates act too soon?"  "What happens if the Democrats decide they made a mistake and actually consider changing their votes and nominating Clinton at the convention?"

    I am half-expecting the media to get the bright idea that they could cash in big-time if they can engineer a convention floor fight - there is nothing they love more than ratings and attention, and I don't see them being content to just let anything alone.

    Whatever Hillary decides, she will do it with her trademark grace and class, and I will be proud of her; she stands head and shoulders above an embarrassingly large contingent of Democratic Party pooh-bahs.

    2118, instead of (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by pie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:53:36 PM EST
    2209 with FL and MI?

    That's gonna leave a mark, I'm afraid.


    Unity? (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by CSTAR on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:05 PM EST
    By the looks of the front page postings at "la gran naranja" it sure doesn't look like it to me. It's more like spit in the face of Hillary supporters.

    Misogyny perhaps?

    just sophomoric stupidity (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by kempis on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:20 PM EST
    Those people really do think that the "creative class" is large enough to carry Obama to victory. I think they're out-of-touch with reality. I guess we'll see who's right in November.

    Parent
    It's as if (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by MonaL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:13 PM EST
    they saw the results coming in from SD and decided they better call this for Obama with SD's so as not to darken even more the cloud of illegitimacy over his "so-called" nomination.

    He's been furiously trying to get SDs over before the end of the primaries so he'll be able to claim the nomination and force Hillary to concede.  I hope she's got just a little bit more strength in her to stay in one more time.  Annouce that she's got the will of the people and that no one is the nominee until the convention.

    Don't throw things at me (none / 0) (#102)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
    but I don't want her to do that. She has put up with enough crap already. She is not going to get the nomination. It doesn't seem fair, but it is what is going to happen whether she stays in or gets out.  She needs to suspend or concede.  Even if by some miracle should could get the nomination, she would be so hated and despised by half the party that she couldn't win in November.

    Parent
    BTD, thank you (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:56:51 PM EST
    for the earlier post.  It was beautiful.

    I'm sorry this is OT but comments closed before I could post.

    I wish there were more of you, I might have been able to get behind Obama.

    But I think Obama and the DNC had already disregarded your sentiments but running the last SD endorsements this afternoon, timed just before the end of the business day.  I can't find any sensitivity in that, not at all.  If they thought the'd win SD and MT, then celebrate tonight and run the endorsements tomorrow.  If they thought Clinton would win, well then be gracious and let her celebrate just once.  It's the pettiness and ungraciousness that ices the cake for me.

    I've made my thoughts about GE voting clear elsewhere and won't go into them here.  But thanks to both you and Jeralyn for fighting the good fight.

    I think (none / 0) (#167)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:04 PM EST
    The rationale is to let the voters of SD and MT push him over the top, not the Supers.  They're putting out just enough names so that an election will give him the nomination, not some endorsement.

    For good or bad, I think that's the idea.

    Parent

    Maddow is an idiot (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Terry M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:59:40 PM EST
    Hillary loses all her authority and all her clout the minute she concedes.  So long as she has 50% or so of the pldeged delegates, she has real power, and the party can do nothing without her. Let them beg, let them plead.   She should sit back and let the "presumptive" nominee take the hits for awhile, and then in Denver, make every Democrat announce for the record what they really think.  Then and only then, if she is not the nominee, should she show her support of Obama. And maybe not even then.  To do so any earlier would be stupid.  As she has said herself. Hillary is many things, BUT SHE IS NOT STUPID, although she belongs to a stupid party.

    This party is really fractured - and the deep wounds are not easily dismissed.  I am tired of hate speech from Obama supporters.  I am not a racist.  I just want a candidate who knows what she is doing. Obama can't even figure out how to leave a hateful church.

    Hillary/Clarke 08
    or
    McCain/Clinton 08.  

    I'm with you. (5.00 / 0) (#139)
    by AX10 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:12 PM EST
    Also, I expect McCain will cut a deal with the Dems in congress to increase taxes on the wealthy.  He did oppose Bush's tax cuts afterall.

    Parent
    What on Earth... (none / 0) (#197)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:19 PM EST
    ...could possibly lead you to this conclusion?  He's since voted for them and repeatedly called for making Bush's tax cuts permanent.  And it doesn't matter if he originally opposed them.  Bush Sr. is the one who coined the phrase "Voodoo economics" when running against Reagan.  He was a full fledged convert by '88.

    McCain will not be a friend to the middle class or poor.  That's not even  a question.  If he wins in November, we're in for a horrible, horrible ride.

    Parent

    Tweety (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:28 PM EST
    just asked if Hillary would be able to OBEY Obama as his VP.

    Good lord...they are not interested in unity.

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:56 PM EST
    You know the drill.  Love, honor and obey!

    Parent
    No way.. (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:08:57 PM EST
    I am glad I am still at work and not at home to hear dumb ass remarks like that.  Obey?  Is he kidding?  Sadly I think he is not.

    Parent
    It's about power (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by Steve M on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:04 PM EST
    Look at some of the comments from Obama supporters about whether Hillary needs to be "vetted" for the VP slot.

    She needs to go through the process just like anyone else.  She needs to be willing to disclose this and that.  She needs to accept that it's his decision and not hers.  And so on.

    For these supporters, at least, it's a power game.  It's about making her submit, forcing her to subjugate herself.  An outcome where Hillary gets to keep her head held high is just unacceptable.

    Parent

    Tweety was inadvertently right... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:52 PM EST
    It's about submission, not unity.

    Parent
    That is disgusting.. (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:38 PM EST
    I haven't heard them say that about any of the possible male VPs.  I am so tired of trying not to think the worst.  

    Parent
    He's a moron (none / 0) (#202)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:20:38 PM EST
    I can't even stand to listen to him.

    Parent
    I suspect (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:26 PM EST
    he never asked that question of Cheney.....

    More sexism, more reason not to vote for Tweety's love interest.

    Parent

    This can't be true.. (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:46 PM EST
    I can't actually be witnessing blatent sexism all around me.  I feel like I am trapped in a nightmare.  

    Parent
    Clinton as VP: The Argument (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by cbm on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:11 PM EST
    Hilary Clinton as VP: The Argument

        As rumors circulate that Clinton would be open to the VP slot (see here), I feel compelled to make the case for why Obama should select her as VP.

    The argument:
    (1) Clinton should be Obama's VP
    (2) But it must be handled correctly

    Why Clinton should be VP:
    She is the best choice available
    2008 is a Democratic year. It is a change election. Obama is Mr. change. Electing Obama as President of the United States will represent the cleanest possible break from and repudiation of the abysmal years of George W. Bush. Having the Clintons in the wings will not water down that brand. The biggest threat that we face in this election is a divided party. If our party is fully united, our coalition will be larger than McCain's and we will roll in November. Clinton as VP absolutely eradicates the threat of a divided party. No other candidate can promise a united party (not even Al Gore, who will not be VP in any event).

    In short:
    *    Clinton will bring the women
    *    Both Clintons will help with the Latino vote
    *    She guarantees a unified party
    *    Our coalition with an Obama/Clinton ticket will be bigger than McCain's and we will demolish the GOP in November.

    How it can be done right:
    Define her role early:
    Clinton's role should be defined - she could be the VP that acts as a health care czar. This gives her a defined role in the administration that is confined but important. If Clinton's role is defined from the outset, Obama will avoid the "what's her role?" question and the idea of some sort of "co-presidency". Defining her role early may also dampen the notion that Obama was "forced" to pick Clinton. Also, from Clinton's point of view, she will be able to define her legacy as the woman who fixed the American healthcare system.

    Obama as Lincoln: The Great Unifier
    Importantly, by bringing the Clintons into his tent and putting them in their proper place, Obama will validate his reputation as the great unifier. He will be the man who beat the biggest brand in Democratic politics and then brought them into his camp and put them in their proper place. Talk about power.  

    The issue of Bill:
    He has been a lose cannon and a liability for Hilary during the democratic primary. But the general election campaign against McCain will be less of a kid glove affair. If Bill says something rising to the Jesse Jackson comment regarding McCain, it would not create a similar hailstorm. Democratic on Republican action is more rough and tumble and in this sense Bill will be more of an asset than a liability.

    It's the Economy stupid
    The Obama campaign has rightly indicated that they are going to make the general election about the economy (cue McCain clip about not understanding how the economy works). Can you think of a better reminder of the good economic times of the `90's than Bill Clinton? Again, the Clintons are an asset here.

    Dealing with the counterarguments:
    Clinton as VP will dampen excitement among Obama's base
        I really don't see how this is possible and have not seen any evidence that it would be the case. Obama is on top of the ticket and having Clinton as VP does nothing to change that. Obama is on the path to become the first African American president in our history. Obama represents the clearest possible change from Bush.  Nothing will dampen the excitement of that prospect.   

    Clinton will drum up the GOP base
        (1) The hardcore GOP donors will be giving the maximum amount of money to defeat Obama regardless of whom he chooses as his VP. (2) Assuming for the sake of argument that Clinton as VP somehow drums up the GOP fundraising machine: so what! An Obama/Clinton ticket will raise so much more money than McCain it will be a joke. A very funny joke.

    Obama should pick Richardson, Webb, Sebelius, Edwards, ect...
        The thrust of my argument has been that the greatest risk to the democrats in November is a divided party. Clinton as VP is the only candidate that absolutely guarantees a unified party.
    Someone could argue to me that Sebelius would bring the Clinton women back on board. I just don't necessarily believe them.
    Richardson may bring the Latino vote and may even help deliver NM since it has been so close. Also, Richardson has foreign policy bonafides for days (put a week on it). But Richardson doesn't necessarily bring the women, and part of me (okay, a big part of me) worries about not having a white face on the ticket. But that's just my perception of reality.
        Jim Webb is the man. But Jim Webb has been married three times and recently took Obama's clinging to guns and religion statement to a higher level. He is very much a live wire. Also, I don't want him to give up that newly blue senate seat, and he doesn't guarantee Virginia.
        Edwards doesn't ensure a unified party, he doesn't bring North Carolina, and he won't bring working class whites.
        Al Gore would be crazy to take the VP slot again. Al Gore is not crazy.

    And finally, not that it matters or that anybody would watch, but it sure would be fun to watch Clinton absolutely devour Charlie Crist (or whoever) in a VP debate.  


    Well, it's been fun talking and learning at a site (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:10:23 PM EST
    that is comprised of intelligent, caring people.  But Jeralyn has said that this will be an Obama site from the time that the nomination process is over and Hillary says to get behind the guy.  No chatting will be allowed and I guess no dissent about the candidate with a D behind his name will be allowed.  So I guess this is it for me because I will not be voting for the guy.  He's not ready to be president but Hillary is.  I truly believe he is a disaster waiting to happen.  

    Whoah there (none / 0) (#190)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:18 PM EST
    Jeralyn has also steadfastly said it needs to be decided at the convention because SDs can change their votes at any time.

    I don't think now's the time to leave yet.  (just mho)

    Parent

    Angel....not so fast....wait to see what happens.. (none / 0) (#224)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:39:50 PM EST
    AND Jeralyn has not declared this an obama site as of yet.

    Parent
    She won't concede (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:11:43 PM EST
    She has to stay in until the convention. She owes it to her supporter's. I won't believe she is going to back out until I see it. She's tougher than that.

    Sounds like a win coming... (5.00 / 4) (#164)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:35 PM EST
    ... in South Dakota. 20 points among those w/o college degrees, -6 among those with.

    The Appalachian Empire has become one of the most successfully expansionist civilizations of the early 21st century. Perceived to be confined to a few enclaves in West Virginia and Kentucky and the fringes of several other states, its resilient forces now hold huge swaths of the northeast and midwest, and in a highly surprising development, Puerto Rico as well.

    So, will it be the Appalachian Day Parade (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by nycstray on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:16:11 PM EST
    this weekend in NYC?

    It's funny, a large percentage of my 'hood is now Appalachian  ;)

    Parent

    Viva Appalachia! (5.00 / 2) (#207)
    by stillife on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:22:21 PM EST
    Marvelous. I needed this laugh (none / 0) (#226)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:57:55 PM EST
    and, as I am planning an American history course at this moment, I am tempted to include this fine example of grandiose, pedantic wording in a lecture.  Complete with map on PowerPoint, fancy arrows, and all.  

    Rise, Appalachia, rise!

    Parent

    MSNBC (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by DFLer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:19:34 PM EST
    Maddow....wow...then there's:

    Matthews just can't help himself, can he?....re Clinton as VP, asks his guest...but will she obey?

    Then later, after describing her career as a strong independent woman, asks....but can she be subservient?
    Of course I know there is a dynamic worth discussing here, but can't he discuss it without reverting to this biblical context? I'm sorry. Daily Howler is so right about this clown...been an altar boy too long.

    Segment on VP possibilities ends with Keith and Tweety asking, yes, but will it be 1A?

    unity train.

    This is theatre and no more (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by tnjen on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:20:56 PM EST
    ...Obama is pretending to win. The whole idea behind this is to make it appear that he "won" the via the primaries so that people don't realize that he hasn't won enough pledged delegates. They want folks to forget all about those pesky superdelegates. CNN isn't even calling them supers anymore just they're just plain ole delegates (wink, wink). Just another psyop to make it look like it's over when the reality hasn't changed -- neither can win by pledged delegates, supers can change their mind, neither can really be the nominee until Denver.

    We shall see what happens after the Michelle video comes out -- even Bob Beckel (Obama's Pollyanna) is worried about it and has mentioned it. That and trying to suppress today's turnout as well as discourage Clinton from going to the credentials committee is what's behind this push to make it appear that he has "won," outright.

    If she continues to lobby for the votes (2.00 / 5) (#15)
    by halstoon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:37 PM EST
    of superdelegates, she's going to become a pariah in the party. She doesn't want to look like a sore loser or like someone who just doesn't get it. She'll bow out with class, endorsing Barack and the party.

    If she labors the point of no nominee like Jeralyn is doing, her list of friends is quickly going to shrink.

    Just the opinion of a dumb hick from the hills of GA.

    Actually, i think the ONLY way to unify (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:33 PM EST
    the party is to take it to the convention and have an actual vote. Since Hillary is the popular vote leader, she should be the nominee; furthermore, Obama's limping, wheezing finish clearly shows who is stronger---Hillary.


    Parent
    If she continues to lobby for the votes (5.00 / 0) (#88)
    by pcronin on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:06 PM EST
    "Just the opinion of a dumb hick from the hills of GA."

    That was the only accurate thing in your post.

    Parent

    Good one. (1.00 / 4) (#168)
    by halstoon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:16 PM EST
    I'm just here to make all y'all West Virginians feel better. Vent on me; I can take it.

    Your anger doesn't change the truth of what I said. As a matter of fact, Clinton already has a net -3.5 endorsements for the day.

    Losing sucks, don't it? ;o)

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#96)
    by Melchizedek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:59:09 PM EST
    Welcome to TalkLeft, Vice-President Cheney!

    Parent
    oooooh Peniel.....DOUBLE SNAP!! (none / 0) (#163)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:13:19 PM EST
    Halstoon is one who comes on here just to rile people up; oh and hand out troll ratings...

    Parent
    You are the troll rater. You stop and I will too. (1.00 / 2) (#206)
    by halstoon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:22:11 PM EST
    What's the matter? Can't take what you dish out?

    How typical of a Clintonista.

    Parent

    You conventioneers are in a vast minority. (1.00 / 3) (#194)
    by halstoon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:18:48 PM EST
    Gov. Vilsack has asked her to hang it up. She lost 3.5 delegates today. You know all this, but I respect your attempt at spin.

    Unfortunately, trying to spin this will only get you dizzy; Obama's the nominee.

    Parent

    Minus at least one (none / 0) (#118)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:05:13 PM EST
    I voted for her and don't want her to take it to the convention.

    Parent
    Halstoon is right on this, folks (none / 0) (#125)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:06:05 PM EST
    She's going to have to thread the needle very, very carefully if she's not going to concede within a few days for exactly the reason Halstoon says.

    We may not care much about that, but Hillary has to if she wants to continue in politics even as NY senator.  She cannot -- and I think she will not -- burn her bridges and she risks doing that if she continues a full-fledged fight for much longer.

    Parent

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#216)
    by halstoon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:28:58 PM EST
    Fewer and fewer of her supporters here seem to actually think as Democrats; they are diehard Clintonites who simply cannot imagine her picking the party over her own desires; thus, they are more than willing to support a man (McCain) whose own ideology is anathema to Clinton's.

    How they can do so and still call themselves progressives, Democrats, liberals, or even consistent ideologues, is beyond me. He believes absolutely nothing that she believes, and yet he is the answer to all these people's woes. How can that be?

    Parent

    What time is her speech? (none / 0) (#1)
    by Teresa on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:36:30 PM EST


    Any idea when Clinton's speech is (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:37:02 PM EST
    scheduled to begin?

    Jeralyn....do you see suspension of her (none / 0) (#4)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:38:29 PM EST
    campaign as her best bet?

    Well, if she concedes, I don't think (none / 0) (#5)
    by MarkL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:38:35 PM EST
    there is any chance Obama will offer the VP slot.

    I really don't understand the obsession (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ghost2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:57:32 PM EST
    with the VP slot.  It's a loss for Hillary, but MSM makes it like she wants it.  Of course, MSM is a billion dollar free advertising machine devoted to reading Obama's campaign releases, but this is ridiculous.

    Why should Hillary accept being VP or want it?? It's a ceremonial post. So she gets to do all the work, clean up the mess from Obama and his lousy team, and get snobbed by them.  In addition, she has to put up with MSM blaming her for everything, and giving all credit to Obama.

    She would be far more effective in the Senate. She will have a VOICE in the senate.  As a VP, she won't.

    She doesn't need to attend any more funerals of the foreign dictators either (to borrow from McCain in 2000).


    Parent

    It's about respect (none / 0) (#178)
    by dianem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:15:48 PM EST
    Obama has totally trashed Clinton. If he offers her the VP spot he is as much as admitting that it was all politics and she is really qualified to be President. Her supporter's will get the message.

    Parent
    That's not the message I would get (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Cream City on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:17:44 PM EST
    because he has trashed her.  I would get yet another example of his insincerity.  As for his supporters, they are not capable of getting such a message.

    Parent
    Why suspend? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:43:14 PM EST
    It doesn't make any sense until she has exhausted all arguments and until the SD's commit. The SD's have a responsibility to the party and to the voters and they should not be able to hide behind a concession speech. They need to cast their votes and go on record. If there is an argument for Hillary to be VP because of the closeness of pop vote and delegates, it is furthered (made up word?) by SD's being close as well. I think the SD's should stand up an be counted before any concession is made, anything less is cowardly. I hate to use cowardly but i can think of no other word to describe a lack of committing.

    She should say (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:25 PM EST
    she's going to model her campaign after the great Ted Kennedy and go to the convention.

    Who would criticize her for that?

    Parent

    SD's can switch ANY time (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by janedw420 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:06:35 PM EST
    until the convention. I doubt she will concede. She will entertain VP, and wait for possible Obama blunder, tapes, or any misstep. Anything can happy. She will play nice, let things cool off. Obama will have a night of victory, but until convention, victory is tenuous. There will be more political horse trading then any of us can imagine. Hillary is savvy.  Too many of her supporters are ready to storm the Convention. Polls will continue to monitor just how angry some of us are, and if we will jump ship or stay home. Expect lipstick on Obama. Wooing us will be harder than he can imagine...

    Parent
    From your computer to God's ears (none / 0) (#211)
    by honora on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:24:06 PM EST
    It's over (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:44:01 PM EST
    But I'm slightly interested to see exactly how "over" play out.

    Fox says yes, CNN MSNBC say he needs (none / 0) (#24)
    by bjorn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:46:15 PM EST
    11 more

    In the alternate reality of MSNBC (none / 0) (#97)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:59:13 PM EST
    they are excoriating Hillary for taking away from Obama's big moment by daring to say to some NY delegates, when asked, that she would consider VP.

    One more indefensible, selfish, bad-tempered, ill-mannered maneuver by those vile Clintons, apparently.

    Maddow turns me off... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by citizen53 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:02:26 PM EST
    with her commentary, which I do not find is impressive or insightful.

    As for Matthews, oh well.

    Parent

    They all do (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by IzikLA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:14:31 PM EST
    The MSNBC horror show is full on tonight.  You would think they might be the least bit gracious towards Clinton at this point, but apparently not.  They've said it all tonight with laughs.  She is trampling all over HIS night and taking HIS spotlight.  She is snakily Forcing herself into VP consideration.  Her 17.5 million supporters are all ready to jump on the Obama wagon.  There will only be a 'handful' of fringe Clinton supporters that won't vote for Obama.  

    Today, as expected, I am disgusted with the Superdelegates.  They are the ones that are winning this for him and it is all a dog and pony show.

    Parent

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#135)
    by Y Knot on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:07:35 PM EST
    We know this wouldnt be the waqy if the situation was reversed.

    We know this, how?  Not only would I expect Clinton to claim victory if the situation was reversed, I'd be extremely disappointed if she didn't.  

    As of today, the voting will be over.  He will have enough delegates.  Barring some major upheaval, nothing can or will possibly change that until the convention in August (and, let's face it, it's extremely unlikely that it will change then).  

    For the front-runner and presumed nominee to say "Now wait.. I'm not going to start my general election campaign until the end of the summer," would be madness.

    I have a lot more respect for Clinton to think that she would be that foolish if she were in Obama's position.

    Super Delegates mean NOTHING (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by vicsan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:23:16 PM EST
    until August. This arrogant display of Obama's tonight is nothing more than him trying to steal the nomination. If she wants to, she can take this to the convention because she has the best argument for being the nominee....The popular vote and she crushes McCain in the GE. McCain CRUSHES BO in the gE.

    Parent
    We know this because (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by suki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:28:28 PM EST
    she would recognize it would be politically stupid to do it. It would have cost him NOTHING to be gracious and by not being he's further pi33ed off her MANY supporters.
    My God, this isn't rocket science!

    Parent
    Kumbaya? eom (none / 0) (#212)
    by clapclappointpoint on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:25:36 PM EST


    Let Me Pick Your Brain (none / 0) (#217)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:31:30 PM EST
    Since you have a personal connection with George,
    at what point do you think he turned on Hillary this campaign?

    I, personally, reject the claim that he and Charlie Gibson used the PA Debate as an opportunity to rough him up.

    I often see him around the block here in DC and I've restrained myself on numerous occasions from throwing my shoe it him. I love my shoes too much.

    If it was 2118 pledged delegates... (none / 0) (#218)
    by Romberry on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:32:18 PM EST
    It Obama was about to cross the line of 2118 pledged delegates, it would mean something. As it is, neither Obama or Clinton has the pledged delegates needed to wrap up the nomination. The preferences of superdelegates can change with the wind. No one has the nomination until the roll is called in Denver.

    To the convention.... (none / 0) (#221)
    by Oje on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:36:08 PM EST
    The inner cartel of the Democratic Party does not seem to recognize the harm it has done to our party. The ruling committees and chairs do not seem capable of discerning the undemocratic mechanisms that played out in this primary: from caucuses to calendar to "pledged delegate" allocations to punitive stripping of delegates to the unjustifiable delegate seizure that capped the primaries on Sunday. They will work on better "frames" to prove the democratic nature of caucuses and state party "estimates" of delegate allocations. What I learned during this cycle is that superdelegates were put in place to "fix" undemocratic or unpopular outcomes in the Demcoratic primary. Twenty years later, what we have seen is a core group of superdelegates - with both political power on Democratic committees and media power as "analysts" on cable news networks and Sunday talk shows - articulate an outcome that is both undemocratic and unpopular (by vote).

    My thinking is that if Clinton does not carry this to the convention on a platform for democratic reform of the Democratic party, then the party will fracture momentarily. Hoping that Obama supporters online or Obama superdelegates will recognize the inappropriateness of their undemocratic and authoritarian behavior is not a feasible program for reform. The generation that came of age in the past 10 years has witnessed nothing but ridiculous political behavior by both parties and the media. The A-listers of the blogosphere now support undemocratic process over democratic reform. To quote Anglachel to say, "the kids are not alright." These individuals, like Donna Brazile, have taken a different lesson from the 1990s than any of us ever imagined. They have no democratic leaders. The Rebublican model is their model now - Obama was always the "establishment" candidate for this cadre of party officials and activists. Further entrenchment of establishment power is their next step.

    Does generation Y or the millenium generation know what a functioning model of democracy looks like? We have not had one in 10 years, so I think perhaps not. Thus, if Clinton does not make democratic reform an issue for the Democratic party by staying in the race, there will be disillusioned drop outs and movements to third parties or advocacy groups to reform the process.  It will be a nasty battle because the leaders of the Democratic party and the non-feminist progressive blogosphere are incapable of acknowledging the undemocratic and misogynistic nature of their actions in the 2008 Democratic primary.

    Our wing of the progressive blogosphere that trembles (Iphie at Corrente) in the face of blatant exercises of undemocratic political power now needs new leaders - both politically and intellectually. Our wing shares in common now the visceral reaction we had to the 1990s to Clinton's impeachment and the Bush v. Gore ruling in 2000 (and if you are old enough, the Clarence Thomas hearings). We will differ from the current Democratic party and former blogosphere in the recognition that Hillary Clinton must now be added to that list of Democrats who suffered an undemocratic fate in an increasingly undemocratic America. And, our wing will know that other Democrats postured to seize power undemocratically from other Democrats.

    We alone on the left recognize the undemocratic turn in the Democratic party in 2007-2008. That will set us apart from those non-feminist progressives who chose undemocratic tactics and misogyny as the path to executive power in 2008. The only question is whether feminist progressives will have a leader (Clinton) at the outset in a new movement that will form organically - and in opposition to the undemocratic Unity Pony.

    It's like those damn killer bees (none / 0) (#223)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:36:33 PM EST
    They were supposed to have swept over us thirty years ago here in southern cal.  All I heard during my childhood.  The killer bees are coming.  Get ready.  Here they come.  But all we got were a few swarms here and there.  Buncha hype.