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My Thoughts on Hillary's Speech

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:36:35 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama 2008 (all tags)
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Dateline: Aspen. I was able to hear the last ten minutes of Hillary Clinton's speech.

I thought she was great. As one of her supporters, I am going to honor her wishes. She could not have been more clear.

Sen. Barack Obama is the Democratic nominee. The 18 million people who voted for her should now enthusiastically support Sen. Barack Obama.

Even if you thought Hillary was the better candidate for President, she is no longer in the race. That is not going to happen.

What matters now is that we put a Democrat back in the White House. We must all work for that. The alternative , a John McCain presidency, is simply unacceptable.

The race is over. Let's get past it and look forward.

I'm past it. I thank Hillary for her commitment, her resolve and her passion. She inspired millions of us. She will continue to inspire, lead and work to improve our lives -- just not as President.

TalkLeft is proud to now officially declare, "Barack Obama in 2008." He has our full support.

Update Below:

To those suggesting TalkLef now will cover Obama all the time, or become a cheerleader for him, that will not happen,

I will be returning to writing about issues, urging Obama and the Democrats to promise to enact some reforms. I will point out the wrong-headed policies of the Republicans and John McCain.

When the Democratic Convention approaches, I will cover that. I don't intend to cover the general election or follow the Obama campaign until after that. If there's something newsworthy, sure, I may mention it. But in general, he will not be the focus of TalkLeft.

Big Tent Democrat will continue to write about politics and the media, but keep in mind, he's no cheerleader either.

The primary race is over. I really don't have much more to say about it. I do have a lot to say about particular issues and the injustices of the current Administration.

If you are interested in what we cover, by all means, hang around. If you want to continue to dwell on the primaries, or rant against Obama, there will be sites you are more comfortable at.

< A Great Speech | Obama's Response To Clinton Endorsement >

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    My Thoughts on Hillary's Speech | 229 comments (229 topical)
    The "Niceness offensive" (5.00 / 15) (#2)
    by MarkL on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:40:37 PM EST
    from the Obama campaign will not do anything for me.
    What I recommend is what's implied in Hillary's speech: policy, policy, policy.
    I will never like Obama. I may cease to loathe him.
    That doesn't matter if I trust that he will enact policies that I support. Right now, I do not trust him at all. Furthermore, an emphasis on being nicey-nicey will turn me off because of its falseness.

    Someone mentioned they don't even think (5.00 / 11) (#14)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:46:30 PM EST
    obama saw the speech, may have been on his way to play golf...it is campaign that is issuing all the statements.  Maybe she will receive a text message from him later.

    Parent
    You're right (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by deathofrock on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:06:50 PM EST
    I may vote for THAT MAN, but I will hold my nose the entire time, and ONLY if she is on his ticket. Otherwise, I'm NOT voting!

    Parent
    Shades of Eisenhower? Obama went (5.00 / 7) (#100)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:18:45 PM EST
    golfing, so he wouldn't have to watch her speech.

    In the Eisenhower years, the '50s, fewer women graduated from college than in the '20s.  I think Obama might have done better to stay home to watch the speech with his daughters, so they could be -- as he claimed they would be -- inspired by Clinton.

    Now he gets to say he didn't see it.  Sad.

    Parent

    Well think of it this way (4.42 / 7) (#8)
    by s5 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:43:35 PM EST
    Even if you don't trust that he'll enact the policies you support, at the very least, he won't veto the policies you support like McCain would. Hillary and all of the Democratic legislators in Congress will be happy to have someone in the White House who won't obstruct their every move.

    Parent
    Depends on how you define obstruct (4.69 / 13) (#25)
    by talex on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:50:09 PM EST
    Given that Obama has pretty much pledged to work with Republicans and their ideas then both they and Blue Dogs will rule the day. That means a Progressive agenda is dead. To me that is Obstruction.

    Parent
    Acting The Uninformed Troll (1.57 / 7) (#43)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:57:07 PM EST
    As usual? Or maybe you are really uninformed.

    Democrat Hillary Clinton says she might include Republicans in her cabinet if she is elected US president, on the eve of a crucial primary against rival Barack Obama in Pennsylvania.

    "I'm going to reach out to Republicans, all kinds of Republicans, because I think it's important that we try to have a bipartisan foreign policy," she said on CNN's Larry King Live.

    ABC


    Parent

    Unfortunately ... (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by Inky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:17:19 PM EST
    America's foreign policy has always been a largely bipartisan affair. Obama may more quickly remove troops from Iraq than McCain (although certainly not all troops, and not even the Blackwater mercs) but his plan is to redeploy many of those troops to the unwinnable war in Afghanistan.

    But what bothers me to distraction about Obama is his economic direction, and his preference for economic advisors like the modified Chicago school economists Goolsbee and Sunstein, the SS-semi-privatizer Jeffrey Liebman, the anti-UHC health economist David Cutler, etc. An Obama presidency ensures that the Democratic party will lurch even further to the right. I just don't know how I can support that. Maybe I'll come to see it differently over time, but I don't think so -- particularly given the way the Obama campaign won this election.

    Parent

    We Have To Hold His Feet To The Fire (4.25 / 4) (#122)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:29:33 PM EST
    Also, his positions on the war and crime are too far to the right for me.

    Parent
    Holding Dems Feet To The Fire (5.00 / 8) (#233)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:23:15 PM EST
    has worked so well since they gained the majority now hasn't it?

    Parent
    Really . . . (5.00 / 9) (#115)
    by Landulph on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:24:58 PM EST
    Check again. Obama specifically promised to appoint Republicans to the critical positions of Secretary of State and Defence, and specifically suggested Sens. Lugar and Hagel as possible candidates. Clinton, by contrast, was (smartly, I thought) deliberately vague and boilerplate in her statement, clearly designed to woo disaffected Repubs. Look, I have nothing against a nice, moderate Vermont or Wisconsin Republican in a minor-level cabinet position or two, but pledging to turn over State or Defense (two areas the GOP has managed to screw up royally over the last 8 yrs) to Repubs simply reinforces the meme that only they can deal with big bad foreign foes and Dems (pace Obama) are only good for baking cookies.

    On a broader note, exactly how do you expect a progressive agenda to be enacted through "postpartisan/bipartisan" means? Isn't that simply taking Bill Clinton's alleged "triangulation" to new heights, under curcimstances that should be far more auscpicious for Dems than the 1990s? Isn't that whole mindset (the brave new era of "bipartisanship" in the wake of the 2000 election and 9/11 exactly what led big-league Obama backer Wee Tommie Daschle to steamroller the Iraq resolution through the Senate, when Democrats had a majority?

    If Obama can hypnotize troglodyte Oklahoma Republican Jim Inhofe into supporting legislation to combat global warming, then I'm all for it. Short of that (and brainwashing a lot of other Republicans to complete jettison their entire political personas and power bases), I see Carter Redux staring us in the face. Isn't this just Unity '08 all over again?

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#134)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:32:26 PM EST
    If Obama can hypnotize troglodyte Oklahoma Republican Jim Inhofe into supporting legislation to combat global warming, then I'm all for it.

    We'll see.

    Parent

    Obviously (4.44 / 9) (#55)
    by talex on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:03:19 PM EST
    you didn't see Obama on Fox News Sunday.

    All Presidents reach out to the other side that is nothing new. To equate Clinton to Obama in their Republican rhetoric is absurd. You haven't been paying close attention at all to what he has been saying or how he has dissed the Left or ran form the label of Liberal or Progressive. UR the troll here.

    Parent

    You Are Living A Fantasy (1.80 / 5) (#83)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:13:51 PM EST
    Obama and Hillary are extremely similar in their bipartisan approach to politics. You may be a sucker for words of a Pol but their actions are what counts.

    WASHINGTON - For many years, whenever a Republican senator looked for a Democrat to cosponsor a bill, one name popped immediately to mind - Hillary Clinton, according to South Carolina's senior senator, Lindsey Graham.

    Collegial and quietly diligent, Clinton could be counted on to exhaustively work a bill through and cultivate support from both parties, according to numerous senators and aides interviewed by the Globe.

    Boston Globe

    And fer gawd's sake she is a member of the arch conservative GOP organization called the Fellowship. Guess you missed that one too.

    Lieberman, Nelson, Pryor are her only Democratic colleagues there in a sea of GOPers.


    Parent

    You forgot (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by cmugirl on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:17:05 PM EST
    that Edwards was also a member of the Fellowship.

    Parent
    And Obama. n/t (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:29 PM EST


    Parent
    Not (1.00 / 2) (#110)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:22:06 PM EST
    That is for sure. He went to the yearly breakfast but is not a member of the exclusive DC cult.

    Parent
    Really? (1.00 / 0) (#106)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:49 PM EST
    I had not read that anywhere. Are you sure? It would surprise me. Perhaps he went to the yearly meetings but does he currently attend the weekly DC prayer meetings?

    From what I have read Hillary is the most librul of the bunch, that is if you do not count Lieberman who apart from his warmogering is pretty liberal.

    Parent

    Incorrect. (5.00 / 4) (#151)
    by Landulph on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:38:03 PM EST
    Lieberman has always, always been one of the most economically conservative, pro-corporate, anti-union Democrats in the Senate. He was also one of the most puritanical, with his silly crusades against [gasp!] video games and [shudder!] Tv sex n' violence.

    Parent
    I Not A Fan (none / 0) (#178)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:54:06 PM EST
    His warmongering is a super turnoff, but on most issues he is as liberal as both Hillary and Obama.
    Lieberman's public image as a "moderate" has always been rooted more in fiction than in reality. Lieberman's voting record indicates affinity and support for traditional left-wing causes. Indeed, Lieberman's voting record is in line with the likes of such liberal stalwarts as Dianne Feinstein, Hillary Clinton, and Ted Kennedy. Lieberman received a 0% rating from the American Conservative Union in 2004 (Feinstein's voting record was actually slightly more conservative than Lieberman's in 2004 and 2005 according to the ACU).

    link

    Feel free to compare Lieberman's voting record with Hillary's


    Parent

    Just words? (5.00 / 6) (#160)
    by Landulph on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:44:12 PM EST
    | You may be a sucker for the words of a pol, but
    | their actions are what count

    Hmm . . . methinks we have a racist here, under the current, rather loose definition. </snark>

    I assume then, that you place more weight on Obama's consistent failure to vote in favor of cutting off funding for the war than for his six-year old speech opposing it? Isn't that the ultimate contraction between words and actions?

    I mean, seriously, what utter crap. We've been hearing for MONTHS how Obama's soaring oratory compensates for his meagre record and accomplishments (ie, his actions), now you abruptly tell us that words DON'T matter after all.

    Parent

    Same As Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:02:08 PM EST
    The context of my comment to talex, was his or her making believe that Hillary was any less bipartisan than Obama. But since you want to change the subject to the war votes both are identical and both were pathetic as far as I am concerned.

    I think that both Obama and Hillary are going to keep us in Iraq longer than they promised. They both seem to have swallowed the GOP WOT whole and are taking that show on the road to Afghanistan and possibly Iran.

    Parent

    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#198)
    by Landulph on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:04:03 PM EST
    | But since you want to change the subject to the  
    | war votes both are identical and both were
    | pathetic as far as I am concerned.

    Fair enough. You're consistent on this score, and I respect that.


    Parent

    Thank you Jeralyn, for giving me a place these (5.00 / 19) (#5)
    by MMW on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:41:45 PM EST
    last few months.

    Good Luck with the blog. Thanks to all the TLers here that I've come to appreciate.

    I guess this means we shouldn't (5.00 / 7) (#7)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:43:26 PM EST
    come back, right?

    Parent
    I'd recommend sticking around (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by s5 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:08 PM EST
    I've been reading this blog long before it was all about the primary. Talkleft covers issues that no one else does, particularly about criminal justice and the drug war. You'll definitely be better informed about the country you live in.

    Parent
    But if it's all Barack all the time... (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:48:45 PM EST
    it will be hard to weed through that stuff to read the substantive postings.

    Parent
    It's all about insights; TL's the top of the class (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:47:23 PM EST
    The top bloggers really are top notch -- I've loved Talk Left for years but the legal POV was outside my area of expertise. (Multimedia Arts and Analysis; Digital, Analog, heck I'd even pee in a mason jar and stick theofetishes in it if it got me a grant!)

    I like passionate, independent voices. That's what was here before the primary, that's what you'll find during the campaign and that's what'll be here afterwards.

    I'll be baaaaaacccck.

    Parent

    I don't think we're being kicked off.... (5.00 / 18) (#18)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:36 PM EST
    ...but I think that we will have to self-censor some of our posts here from now. My personal fear is that the site will be overun by the type of Obama supporters that get on my nerves. That's not Jeralyn or BTD's fault. But its true nonetheless. Oh well.

    Parent
    That is what will probably happen (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by talex on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:58:48 PM EST
    And many of us will leave. It will be just like Dkos where people were shouted out. I hate to see Jeralyn let this happen but it could spiral out of her control. those who supported this blog and helped make it what it was will be tossed aside I'm afraid.

    Parent
    Me, too! (5.00 / 5) (#137)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:33:16 PM EST
    Thanks to all. I've enjoyed being here for the last month, and may pop back from time to time.

    Funny, now that I can post more than 10 a day, I will no longer need to!

    Parent

    I think it was pointed out respectful contrary arg (4.87 / 8) (#40)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:56:21 PM EST
    arguments are always welcome. As well as respectful criticism of Obama

    I fear there will be much to criticize--constructively or snarkily, but there.

    We need to stick together to try to make sure an Obama presidency, should there be one, will do the things we think are important. Like real actual universal healthcare. I cannot think of a time in our nation when it is more important than right now.

    Recall the Bill Kristol, then chief of staff to VP Quayle, wrote a memo to the Repubs saying that it was existentially important that they deny Clinton his ability to enact healthcare legislation, that if it happened the Dems would be in power for the next few decades.  It would fulfill the promise of FDR for the Four Freedoms

    With the help of Big HealthCo, the R's denied Clinton his healthcare promise to Americans.

    Initially business seemed to realize that universal healthcare would benefit their bottom line, but they turned, for whatever reasons.

    Now, I think, business has internalized the fact that having to pay separtely for healthcare insurance without real bargaining power is undermining profitability for both Big Biz and small biz.

    What we need to do is get Obama on board, rein in his tendency to schmooze Big Biz and Big Money. For that reason, I see Hillary in the Senate as better than Hillary as VP.

    Best, of course, is that Barack realizes that he needs to spend more time with his family...and endorses Hillary for the nomination. (Yeah, I know--FantasyLand).

    Parent

    This speech showed me (4.65 / 23) (#12)
    by MMW on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:46:19 PM EST
    I cannot support him. I just cannot. I can't go back.

    I respect what Jeralyn does here too much to be disruptive. And I fear I would be.

    I cannot validate what was done. The only thing I have is my support.

    Parent

    Armando stated yesterday (5.00 / 5) (#41)
    by talex on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:56:24 PM EST
    that all are welcome to stay. All that is asked if people are not for Obama is that they post in a constructive way and use facts to make their argument. Facts against Obama should not be that hard to do. ;)

    Don't leave.

    Parent

    MMW (4.42 / 7) (#149)
    by Andy08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:37:35 PM EST
    I share your thoughts and position. I am with you.

    Thank you Jeralyn and BTD for your thoughtful and serious posts and for offering me a space to express my views.

    Thank you also to all the great commenters here; it's been a pleasure to share the last few months with you.

    Parent

    MMW...don't you dare go....the only dis- (4.33 / 6) (#19)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:41 PM EST
    ruptive ones on this site are the sore winners from obamaland....

    Parent
    and, they are regularly eating the (4.66 / 12) (#35)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:53:54 PM EST
    threads these days. They come in and start needling as fast as they can, the threads fill up and barely a decent thought was exchanged.


    Parent
    It was sic listening to Keith when he was trying (5.00 / 6) (#165)
    by Clinton2012 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:47:15 PM EST
    to poke holes in her speech .. calling if it WAS sincere and that is what she wanted her supporters to do.. he also asked could she NOT have said this in more strong words like .."if you support me.. you should support Obama"

    Well .. tell you what, if Obama fanatics doubt her sincerity then I WILL make your wish come true by NOT supporting Obama, cause that is what YOU are trying to STILL imply that she is NOT sincere.

    Couple of years will fly by and then Clinton2012. I hope he does not offer her the VP. I want to cast my ballot for McCain and if she is on the ticket that WILL make it little difficult for me.

    Parent

    Don't vote for McCain (5.00 / 0) (#200)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:04:54 PM EST
    leave the top spot blank and vote the Dem undercard. That will send a really strong message to the DNC about how we feel about their nominee.

    Parent
    MSNBC News Alert: (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by Clinton2012 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:04:59 PM EST
    Barrack O' Bama watched Senator Clinton's speech on Computer [since he was too buys playing golf in the morning!]

    That's what I called respect! I will vote for Obama [not]!

    Parent

    that is false (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:11:40 PM EST
    Their are very few here, they violate the comment rules and are banned or zapped. Their numbers will not be increasing.

    Parent
    I cannot support Obama either. (4.55 / 9) (#190)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:00:36 PM EST
    I will not vote for a candidate who is so completely unqualified for the Presidency, not only by experience but by temperament. I will not vote for a candidate who has demeaned, belittled, trivialized and insulted me throughout the campaign. I will simply leave the top of the ballot blank. I cannot vote Republican, I just can't.

    I will vote the undercard and let Obama's supporters deal with the top spot. And I will let them deal with the introduction of the Chicago machine into national politics. If they think DC is sleazy now, just wait until the boys from Chicago roll into town. Even the snowplows won't be able to clear the sludge out of the Capitol. That, of course, is assuming Obama wins, which is very unlikely. He has alienated too many people. Way too many people.

    Our only hope is that the GOP starts pointing out the sleaze before August and the SDs come to their senses. It's a slim hope, but then so was Obama winning the nomination when he started out. Or so we thought.

    Parent

    I've already lost a quarter of my tongue from (4.42 / 7) (#37)
    by MMW on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:54:19 PM EST
    biting it.

    I'd probably lose half of what's left.

    I may still lurk. I'm terrible at cold turkey.

    Parent

    :) They can't even give us this last day (4.50 / 10) (#44)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:58:35 PM EST
    in peace without trying to stir up trouble. Jeez, look further down the thread. I haven't seen any reasonable Obama supporters try to discuss the process here, just the ones who were sent out on a mission to attack and destroy.

    That's no fun, and it's not good for my emotional well-being.


    Parent

    Michael Masinter (4.33 / 6) (#183)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:56:32 PM EST
    is one of the primary lurkers here today...just hanging in the background messing with the ratings.

    Michael, sweetie, you've convinced ALL of us we want to play on YOUR team. You're a real ace.


    Parent

    See my updare (none / 0) (#184)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:57:18 PM EST
    about TL going forward

    Parent
    Seconded (5.00 / 19) (#11)
    by dianem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:45:58 PM EST
    This has been a well-moderated and interesting site, and I've learned a lot about how to conduct civil political discussion on the web in the last few months. I won't stick around to be, essentially,  a troll, since I can't get behind Obama. I'll drop in periodically.  Maybe I'll change my mind. Good luck, and Thank You.

    Parent
    Agreed (5.00 / 16) (#29)
    by sumac on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:51:47 PM EST
    I probably will not visit much anymore, but TL has been a great place to discuss the candidates, the issues.

    I am saddened by this entire primary process, and am no longer identifying myself as a Democrat. I may again in the future - it's up to the party. I can't condone the behavior of the DNC and I am not okay with allowing the MSM to select our candidate.

    That said, no one, save Barack Obama, can convince me to vote for him - not the media, not the blogs, not my family (though none of them are voting for him). He has a few months and an admittedly resistant audience (me).

    All the best to everyone here at TL.

    Jeralyn and BTD, thanks for your insight and commentary.

    Parent

    In total agreement (4.76 / 17) (#68)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:07:29 PM EST
    Talk Left, Jeralyn and BTD gave Clinton democrats a wonderful, civil, intelligent, informative, and humorous place to talk. I have laughed through most every thread (until the trolls engage) here.

    I'll come lurking again if any big legal events create a non-stop media discussion, but I cannot deal with irrational support of the democratic version of GWB.

    Jeraly, BTD, and TChris....awesome blog!! Thank you so very much.

    Parent

    I'm taking a wait-and-see approach (5.00 / 13) (#33)
    by stillife on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:53:16 PM EST
    I expect Jeralyn and BTD to remain dispassionate in their coverage of the campaign.  I would be very disappointed if this site turns into an Obama fan club, and I don't believe that will happen.

    I've become addicted to TalkLeft over the past few months.  I can't quit cold-turkey.  Besides, I do find the law posts interesting.

    Parent

    TL's value (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by dmk47 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:21:29 PM EST
    This site, MyDD, and Taylor Marsh are going to play a critical role in helping rally Clinton supporters around Senator Obama, in a way that sites that went for Obama or stayed neutral --- no matter whether or not they were judicious and fair in their support of Obama --- cannot. So that's a very powerful niche value.

    What I would hope from Jeralyn and BTD is something like very liberal rules for making a substantive argument for or against Senator Obama, but calling out the explicitly and viciously racist, sexist, and misogynistic bilge coming out of certain, ahem, Quarters, for exactly what it is.

    Have I mentioned that the coming campaign of character assassination against Michelle O. could well be unlike anything we've ever seen, given the potential for combining racist and sexist tropes --- could make the sexism and misogyny launched at Hillary look tame, and not because what she had to endure was anything but deplorable and inexcusable?

    Fighting back against that is something every feminist, whether a Democrat or not, can and should unite behind.

    Parent

    What goes around comes around (5.00 / 13) (#147)
    by Upstart Crow on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:36:55 PM EST
    They opened the Pandora's box of misogyny and hate speech during the primaries. Now it will be turned back against them in the GE. They've given permission.

    It won't be pretty. I doubt they'll handle it with the dignity that Hill did.

    Parent

    This is making me feel sad (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by djcny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:03:02 PM EST
    It's not so easy to just change your aliance with someone that you supported so passionately in just a day.  Today I supported Hillary heart and soul and tomorrow I shift all of that emotion and fervor  to someone I never supported or liked from the very start of the campaign?  I'm not sure I can do it and even if I could it's going to take time.  To have to stop coming here to read or comment, with like minded people, just like that seems a bit harsh. I feel abandoned. yikes :)

    Parent
    Yes, thank you (4.69 / 13) (#17)
    by Foxx on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:09 PM EST
    It was great while it lasted. But I can't support him, so won't be here.

    Parent
    Know where you're going? (4.69 / 13) (#22)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    I'll be at riverdaughter :)

    Parent
    I'm glad she did that speech (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:44:21 PM EST
    Saturday and not Tuesday, like some of the punditocracy practically demanded. It's much more real and heartfelt today.

    Like I said before, look...yeah, I didn't support Hillary in the Primary, but give the woman some credit where it's due. You can't just expect her to deliver a speech like that on Tuesday, after the longest, most brutal primary ever in History. I thought it was unreasonable for people to expert her  to turn around and endorse Obama on Tuesday.

    It sounds more real and authentic, a few days later, after the dust has settled, and she's had time to reflect upon things and recharge.

    Jeralyn, (5.00 / 12) (#10)
    by cmugirl on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:44:35 PM EST
    Thank you for the sanity these last few months. I appreciate all yours and BTD's hard work. As I am officially "Switzerland" and now have no dog in this fight, I will continue to read this blog, but all info about Obama,as with McCain, will be taken with a grain of salt.

    Thanks cubed: this has always been a great site (5.00 / 6) (#28)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:50:45 PM EST
    Jeralyn, BTD and the Third Tenor (whom I read too but don't have the legal knowledge to add much).

    I look forward to reading your commentary on the campaign trail and beyond, though I'll be bloviating and ranting less. (Unbought, Unbossed Independence does that: I feel like I'm not "owned" and I don't owe.)

    Talk Left's definitely on my monthly love and shoutout list now that ... cough ... you know ... I'm saving a bunch elsewhere.  

    Parent

    I'll be voting against McCain... (5.00 / 6) (#26)
    by lucky leftie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:50:13 PM EST
    ...not for Obama, and the thought of having to do so is completely repugnant.  But the thought of McSame in the WH is even more repugnant.  

    It's five months 'til November... (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by lucky leftie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:09:39 PM EST
    ...and I don't really have the temperament for holding grudges; short attention span.  Maybe I'll be pleased to be voting for Senator Obama by then.  

    Parent
    Did just came from even to judge the dead and (none / 0) (#174)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:53:12 PM EST
    the living?

    Don't steal God's job please!

    Parent

    STOP (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by standingup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:04:24 PM EST
    Please delete this comment.  That is not what talex implied or intended and there is no need to even suggest such a thing.

    Psst... (none / 0) (#76)
    by standingup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:11:23 PM EST
    Thanks and may as well delete this and my comment above since the offensive comment that in was in response to has been deleted.

    Parent
    Please just stop (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:05:19 PM EST
    I really hope there will not be a bunch of comments like this now.

    You're a hateful idiot (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by riddlerandy on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:06:47 PM EST
    go away now

    Get over it (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by deathofrock on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:08:31 PM EST
    This is rude. HRC supporters are not racists.

    We just enjoy a candidate who actually tells us HOW she's going to do something, and not just preaches about 'CHANGE' and 'HOPE'. I HOPED we had CHANGE with Hillary.

    I will be voting for the democratic candidate (5.00 / 8) (#74)
    by vj on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:10:52 PM EST
    Obama's campaign has not particularly struck a chord with me, but I will gladly vote for him to prevent the republicans from continuing to borrow and spend us into poverty in order to continue an unnecessary war, etc.

    This has been a difficult and divisive campaign and there are hard feelings on both sides.  For me as a Clinton supporter, it felt like a GE campaign, except my candidate was treated like a republican, which is a novel experience for me.  (I think I learned a bit about what people mean when they talk about some democrats' "elitism".)  Hopefully time will heal these wounds.

    One bright spot has been discovering TalkLeft where Jeralyn and BTD have managed to keep the conversation civil.  I don't even visit those other blogs any more.

    One question (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:14:01 PM EST
    If the plan is to "use" Clinton in the campaign, either in personal appearances or TV/radio spots, as was discussed on MSNBC today, then how does Obama do that without completely marginalizing his running mate, assuming it's someone other than Clinton?

    This is a serious question, and I'm not trying to be snarky.  Try to imagine an ongoing portion of the campaign being Clinton working very publicly to help Obama, and having a much, much greater effect on the outcome than whoever Obama picks for the VP slot.  

    I think there are some people in Obama's inner circle looking at each other right now and saying, "Holy crap.  How do we NOT make her the running mate after that speech???"

    I think you are right about that (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:27:33 PM EST
    But then I also think that the superdelegates and  DNC should be looking at eachother and asking why she is not the nominee.

    She is obviously the best choice for VP.  As Wolfson said the other day, it is all Obama's decision.  Wolfie must have known how awesome she was going to be today.

    If it is not her, it is going to have to be someone who does not mind not being the center of attention. Of course, running with Obama that is probably a good quality to have anyway.

    Parent

    Hillary's speech... (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by eagleye on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:14:41 PM EST
    I just took a cruise of various pro-Obama websites, and Hillary's speech is getting a very good reception everywhere.  She handled it beautifully, I thought.

    I'm anxious to hear some talk from Obama about how important it is to win all the other races-- House, Senate, Governorships, state and local offices.  I think that with a united Democratic Party we have a chance to see huge turnout and have a real slam-dunk election that reduces the GOP to a quaint irrelevancy for the next few decades.  The next President may have as many as three Supreme Court appointments, so it is critical to have a Senate that won't block the nominees.

    Congress should do its job for a change (5.00 / 7) (#128)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:30:58 PM EST
    They haven't given a cr@p about my rights ever in my life, so I couldn't care less now.

    That's not on the 18 million voters who supported Sen Clinton, that's not on women, that's not on any one sector that believes everyone has the right to constitutional protection: including three fair, transparent arms of govt.

    Whoever gets the White House, this is on Congress. No SCOTUS guilt here; no bullying or guilting me will ever work on me. I did my bit.

    Time for Dems to do theirs.

    Parent

    You said it! (5.00 / 4) (#222)
    by Grace on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:14:10 PM EST
    Where is my Congress?  I worked hard to get a Dem majority in Congress -- and now what are they doing?


    Parent
    Well of course. (4.63 / 11) (#102)
    by dk on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:16 PM EST
    They are all going to pretend that they weren't sexist, irrational, and supportive of the corruption within the party that disenfranchised voters.

    I, for one, hope they don't get away with it.

    Parent

    Hillary has my heart (5.00 / 8) (#88)
    by eleanora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:15:11 PM EST
    and always will, but I hope to be as gracious and strong as she has been and find a way to help in this fight to reclaim our America. Thanks for the safe space, Jeralyn, and for your leadership. I know supporting the nominee is exactly what Hillary wants, and I'm sure she's grateful for your principled help in getting there.

    Great speech! (5.00 / 5) (#89)
    by robrecht on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    Hillary developed into such a great campaigner, just a little too late.  If she had come out as the strong populist fighter from the start this race would have been completely different.  Now that she's really found her (and our) voice, it won't be silenced.  I sincerely hope Obama does well--how could any Democrat feel otherwise!  And he can.  He hasn't risen to the occasion yet, but he can.  Especially with our support.

    Not there yet (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by BRockNYLA on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:16:24 PM EST
    I will vote for the guy, but the Democrats will not get my money or time.

    Thanks Jeralyn and BTD (5.00 / 10) (#107)
    by Democratic Cat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:53 PM EST
    I greatly respect the way you run this blog. I'll still lurk but probably won't comment too much. I'm convinced that to vote for Sen. Obama after all this means that nothing will change. They will say, gee, they were really pi**sed off, but they still voted for him. I just can't do it.

    Nothing. Will. Change.

    Just come around and rub our metaphorical leg (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:31:38 PM EST
    every once in awhile. Purr. Yowl. Meow.

    (I love your nym.)

    Parent

    Only if you offer me catnip :-) (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by Democratic Cat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:58:34 PM EST
    My cat once chewed the head off a George Bush doll, so my name is in her honor.

    Parent
    ditto - I won't give them the satisfaction of once (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:54:52 PM EST
    again take my vote for granted. Those days are finished regardless of the outcome of the campaign

    Parent
    Support (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by lentinel on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:24:45 PM EST
    I can see why we would be urged to support Obama, but does it have to be "enthusiastically"?

    Wouldn't they settle for the familiar "holding your nose" support?

    Because nothing but the most (5.00 / 7) (#125)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:29:55 PM EST
    enthusiastic support in the history of support via endorsement will keep them from blaming a loss in November on  Hillary.

    Parent
    good one n/t (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:44:03 PM EST


    Parent
    CNN post-speech analysis..... (5.00 / 9) (#116)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:26:11 PM EST
    ...can't resist taking a poke at my generation. Apparently, according to Jeffrey Toobin, the new conventional wisdom is that the reason there were more demonstrations in the street by young people is that my generation marched because of self-interest! I believe they are trying to equate (and elevate above) the youth of today's idealism with the youth of the 60s. So today's youth's support for Obama is equal to or better than the 60s youth movement. There you have it, history rewritten.

    Now they are saying that Obama is the first progressive since 1968! Okay so that's why I can't support Obama. I can't endorse the revisionism that goes on in his name.

    Doesn't mean I will refuse to vote for him, but it will be a choice between the lessor of two evils and I can't sugar coat it for the sake of party unity.

    Does it even occur to them (5.00 / 6) (#123)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:29:34 PM EST
    that maybe we weren't marching in the streets so much because we were busy working -- say, to teach that generation and to earn their college tuition,  in my case?

    My progeny know that and appreciate it.  Some of my students, too.  The media forget everything they ever knew.

    Parent

    I have not watched CNN (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:32:07 PM EST
    but MSNBC has been full of effusive praise for her.  They even had Maddow moderate a discussion and brought members from the CBC and it everyone heaped honest praise on Hillary and rightfully so.  I don't know why CNN is being so critical.

    Parent
    I thought (5.00 / 5) (#238)
    by djcny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:33:43 PM EST
    msnbc is being quite hypocritical imo, they praise her now only because she threw "enough" support to BO. The only person that I heard giving her the praise she deserved for the speech was Pat Buchanan.  He said that her speech wasn't just "splendid" as matthews said, but that is was "great" and that he believes it was one of the best concession (she suspended) speeches ever made and it will go down in history as that.

    Parent
    good god. (5.00 / 8) (#141)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:35:07 PM EST
    Progressive, he is NOT.

    I thought it was already clear: youth demonstrators in the 60's were just DFHs.  Youth demonstrators now are idealistic, post partisan, and most importantly for the media, good consumers.

    Parent

    Riverdance? (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Inky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:27:58 PM EST
    You just made me smile at the thought of traditional Irish step-dancers dancing in unison for Hillary.

    And why not? Hillary did assist in the Irish peace process, despite what Divid Trimble and the Obama campaign had to say about all that.

    I can't either. (5.00 / 9) (#132)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:31:42 PM EST
    Nice knowing most of you. Will miss many of your great comments but I can't pretend to support someone I loathe with every fiber of my being. And feeling that way, it would be impossible for me to stay. I never contributed much anyway.

    Kenoshamarge (5.00 / 9) (#157)
    by kmblue on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:42:48 PM EST
    I beg to differ.  You contributed much.

    Parent
    Although I never was ... (5.00 / 5) (#143)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:35:58 PM EST
    wowed by Obama before he ran.  (I thought his '04 convention speech was wishy-washy nonsense.)  My attitude toward has dropped during the campaign.

    He just doesn't have the fighting spirit that Dems need to win the White House.

    I will vote for him, I guess.  But I hope, as Hillary did in the primaries, that Obama will find his voice in the general.

    And that I can be happy to cast my vote on his behalf.

    I'm not holding my breath.

    Thank YOU SOOOO much (5.00 / 16) (#146)
    by txpolitico67 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    Jeralyn and Armando.

    I am one of those who will bid TL a fond farewell.  I may lurk from time to time but my convictions are not up for grabs.  The primary season was just too much for this former yellow dog.

    I would also like to thank ALL my new comment-friends I made along the way here at TL who have been kind enough to visit my blog and/or email me.
    It was my pleasure to be part of a thoughtful and engaging crowd.  I am also a proud supporter of Talk Left financially.  I only give my money to things that I believe in:  and I believe in this weblog.

    Cheers to all.  Good luck to all candidates in the GE.

    Angelo
    aka txpolitico67

    What a great speech, and thanks to TL (5.00 / 7) (#155)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:40:22 PM EST
    for being such a great place to put up my feet and blather on. I'd like to make a pitch for Hillary supporters like myself who may have trouble with our nominee and especially with our party and how things happened, to stay here and talk. I think we can discuss a lot of issues about fixing the party, about policies, and of course about legal issues (for me, I can talk endlessly about IP issues, esp. in the digital realm if permitted, though that's not the crime focus here). I think as long as we're not simply bashing Obama, we're welcome to stay and argue and blather on like I like to do. I'll stay, it's my favorite place.

    For me, at least, I am going to have to come to (5.00 / 11) (#168)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:50:00 PM EST
    terms with the Democratic Party before I can work up any enthusiasm for Obama, and unfortunately, I think the party leaders feel validated in what transpired this last year because Obama is now the presumptive nominee - and I'm not looking to add my own validation.

    As I mentioned a few days ago, this is the first election in some time where I wasn't able to set aside my lukewarm feelings for the candidate, and focus and advocate for the bigger picture that was the Democratic party.  Yes, I know those ideals that Dems are supposed to stand for should be a reason to get behind the candidate the party has propelled, manipulated, cheated and shoved down our collective throats, but I'm just not feelin' it.

    I would love to see some posting here on what needs to be done within the party, with the primary system, the caucus debacle, etc.

    But I won't be ordering any Obama pom-poms and I won't be doing much, if any, defending of him for the forseeable future, so that means more free time for me, I guess.  :-(

    That is (5.00 / 12) (#180)
    by Andy08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:55:20 PM EST
    the problem Palomino: people do not understand why many of us were supporting HRC and were against Obama. It was not just "a preference". There were deep principled reasons that are not for sale and do not change b/c now he is the "official" nominee. What I thought about him before I still do and it is impossible for me to support such a person for POTUS.

    Civil Discourse (5.00 / 4) (#182)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:56:20 PM EST
    I don't expect that this site or most will become Obama clone sites. There should always be room for civl discourse. I have yet to meet the politician that I completely agree with, that's the nature of the beast. H%ll, You can love your spouse or kids but that doesn't mean you're blind to their faults. Or that when they act in a way that you don't approve of, you bite your tongue. I would hope that factual constructive criticism would always be welcome at this site. And with the Democratic leadership we have, I feel confident, we'll have enough material to last a couple of lifetimes!

    Is it true that Obama played golf.... (5.00 / 3) (#185)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:57:38 PM EST
    ...during Hillary's speech? Don't know what to think about that. Well I do, but....

    Enthusiasm isn't a choice. (5.00 / 5) (#186)
    by OrangeFur on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:58:30 PM EST
    I can perhaps force myself to support Obama, but I can't do it enthusiastically even if I really wanted to. I either feel it or I don't, and right now, frankly, I don't.

    Right now I'm still angry enough over the way Hillary Clinton was treated that I remain highly disaffected from the party and its presumptive nominee.

    One immediate benefit of having just reregistered as an independent is that I no longer feel obligated to defend everything the party does. I'm still much closer to the Dems than the Reps, but am enjoying being an independent for now.

    Hillary can still be the first female POTUS (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by zebedee on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:01:00 PM EST
    Hillary still looks and acts young. Given that women have a higher longevity and we're looking at a potential 71-year old male as president, she has maybe 16 years to go down in the history books as the first female POTUS.

    I think a lot of her supporters would be enraged if he chose another woman as VP, this would like spitting in her face. And if Mccain choses a female running mate and Obama doesn't choose her what message would that send to her supporters?

    No Need for Cheerleading (5.00 / 3) (#199)
    by kaleidescope on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:04:34 PM EST
    There will be plenty of cheerleading.  More important will be organizing to hold Obama's feet to the fire, make him (and hopefully help him) live up to his promises.  Especially here, no one needs to be reminded that Barack Obama is a pol and unless we create political momentum for the reforms and changes we want, Obama will tend toward doing as little as possible.  If he wants to do what we want, our organizing and working for that change will only make it more likely that he will do (or be able to do) what we want.

    We need to keep our eyes on the prize.

    Frankly, I believe a vote for Obama (5.00 / 16) (#208)
    by RalphB on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:47 PM EST
    would be a vote against small d democracy.  If he wins in Nov, no reforms of the corrupt DNC or the primary process will happen.  For women who are fed up with the sexism, how does rewarding it fix the problem?  I just don't see a way for me to be true to my own conscience and vote for an unqualified candidate.  

    I've enjoyed reading the opinions of all the great commenters here and thank you all.  

    Upstream a bit someone asked the question (5.00 / 16) (#210)
    by FemB4dem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:08:14 PM EST
    what would I do if Hillary came to my house and asked me personally to support Obama?  It's basically what she did in her speech today, which I listened to with tears in my eyes.  I now know the answer: I would hug her, and thank her, but firmly say "no."  Here's why: the misogyny that has so stunned us all, that Jeralyn and BTD have blogged so eloquently about, did not come out of no where.  It was waiting, buried not very deeply, in the hearts and minds of the Tweetys, Olbermanns, Caffertys, etc., of the media, in the hearts and mind of the vicious Obama supporters, and, IMO, in the heart and mind of a certain green, rookie one-term Senator who felt it perfectly appropriate to challenge his senior, more qualified female colleague for a job everyone with half a brain cell knows should be hers.  Does anyone really think that if Al Gore had thrown his hat in the ring Obama would have too, even if (perhaps especially if) Hillary had not run?  Unless you can answer that question fairly in your heart that, yes, he would have run in any event, I submit that you cannot (at least women cannot) stay honest and true to yourself and support him.  It is truly that simple for me.

    Moreover, what makes us think this misogyny in the media and our party will go away if we do nothing, sit back and say, "sure sweetie, we'll vote for you."  That overt sexism and deeply held misogyny will simply recede back into the recesses of Olbermann's rotten heart, waiting to surface in 2012 in its most vicious of forms against Hillary, should she run again.  But it will also wait, again to surface against any woman who dares to step out of her place.  It won't need to be so vicious against this hypothetical woman, whoever she may be, instead it will be a more gentle form along these lines: "well, if Hillary was rejected by the American people, what makes you think you will be acceptable as CIC (or whatever)?"  No woman will ever again (at least not in my lifetime) have the unique set of talents, experience and fortitude that allowed Hillary to get this close.  The women to follow won't be savaged -- they won't need to be -- they'll be scoffed at.

    Women, if we are going to make a stand to save our democratic party, it must be now.  We must reject the candidate the DNC foisted upon us, and do it with the same vigor and determination Hillary has shown.  If we do not, if we just return to that metaphorical coffee pot and ask Obama: "sugar or cream?," we will have lost our voice for generations, just as our foremothers did in 1872 when they did not insist, loudly and firmly: "yes, absolutely, the right to vote for black men, but the right to vote for us too."  

    Susan B. Anthony said it well when she asked "how can any woman support a party that does not support her self?" Indeed.  Those words resonate today just as strongly.  We must fix our party now by rejecting it's current guise or we will be stuck at the back of that ever more crowded bottom of the bus for generations to come.

    I have truly enjoyed lurking here for many months, and commenting these past few days.  Thanks you Jeralyn for a marvelous site, and thank you, too, BTD, for being the sole comprehensible Obama supporter I have heard.  I will stay and participate as this turns into a democratic party blog unless asked to leave, which then I will do with what I can only hope will approach even a fraction of the grace my Hillary showed today.

    See you at the Confluence (River daughter's site) and at PUMA PAC.  This fight is so far beyond Hillary and Barack now;
    for our daughters and nieces, for their daughters and nieces, we cannot let it die.  Thank you for listening.  

    Thanks, Jeralyn and BTD... (5.00 / 6) (#217)
    by NWHiker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:11:05 PM EST
    I started posting here after I lost a very beloved internet community to people who were so in the tank, they'd lost all perspective. I really appreciated being able to come here, to learn and talk and found a safe haven over the last few months of the campaign.

    I will not vote for Obama and will not lift a finger to support him, and ever speak in his favour... I never thought I'd feel this way about a Democrat.

    Thank you again for your asylum to a HRC refugee, it was greatly appreciated.

    Comments now closed (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:16:56 PM EST


    the hating continues apace. (5.00 / 8) (#228)
    by rise hillary rise on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:17:59 PM EST
    the loudmouth Obamabots can't even be gracious when they're being handed a gift. the nastiness at TPM and Huffpo, americablog, etc continues.

    as the putative leader of my former party, it's up to Obama now to bring the party together. if he can't do it good luck getting anything done after November.

    IMO, these Obamabots are basically Limbaugh dittoheads 2.0. their MO is the same-shout down, insult, slur anyone with a different opinion. one of the reasons I'm not on the Obama train.

    I guess that these are the new people that he has brought into the party-you know, the ones that Brazile felt could replace the bitter typical white women like me still clinging to the idea that the Democratic Party still stood for something. his first test of leadership is gonna be to rein in these people. I somehow don't see it happening.

    Thanks Jeralyn and BTD (5.00 / 16) (#230)
    by mexboy on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:20:23 PM EST
    I found this site after dk and Huffpost went insane.
    I commented some but mostly read and learned.

    I will stick around and see how things develop, but I will not support nor be part of a electing a person, I believe, became the presumptive nominee by cheating and lying (not allowing MI to vote) and pretending to be the one.

     He sold himself as  an enlightened non politician who was  going to unite the party and instead tore us apart. Tainting Mr. and Mrs. Clinton as racist? I am very sensitive to racism and that alone disqualifies him in my book.

    If I supported him,  I would be violating my conscience and integrity, and that is something I don't do for anyone.

    I will not tow the line the party bosses tell me to tow either. I am my own man and I am quite angry about the mistreatment of Senator Clinton and her supporters.

    I've had it with a party that pi*es all over me, then demands I be a good boy and support the one who pi*ed on me the most.

    And I don't buy all these Obama supporters suddenly "praising" Senator Clinton and posting what a great and wonderful woman she is, when a few days ago their side was plain old nasty and treated her with uttermost disrespect. Suddenly they became fair to the shedevil?/snark
    Is that supposed to win me over?  Don't think so!

    This site has been and fair respectful, I expect it will continue to be so, so I'll keep reading.

    Regards
    ps. I did not mean to make that line bold, and I didn't know how to fix it.

    I won't leave TL. (5.00 / 5) (#235)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:28:54 PM EST
    Too much good insight- fair and rational insight. I'm the better for this blog.

    I don't need to dwell on the primary. (5.00 / 6) (#236)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:31:17 PM EST
    I don't need to rant about Obama's deficiencies. I don't need to actively support John McCain to vote for him. I do need to actively work to resurrect the fighting spirit that I once had about feminism, and for that I need to spend time with like-minded people.  I was actually surprised how visceral my reaction was to the misogyny in this primary. I think the next few weeks are going to be a challenge for TL until the influx of Obama supporters learn the rules. I plan on a little vacation until Jeralyn and BTD get that worked out. Then I'll come back and see where this blog is headed before I decide whether to say good-by. I like the level of discussion here, but the latest drive-bys have been disgusting. I have faith that Jeralyn and BTD will not let them take over.

    I listened to her speech, and (5.00 / 5) (#240)
    by camellia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:44:11 PM EST
    I thought it was incredibly moving.  I don't know how she was able to stand there and give it without tears.  I am still tearful.

    Thanks, Jeralyn and BTD, for a fair and honest place to come -- I only discovered TL a few weeks ago and haven't been able to contribute much, but I have really felt comfortable here.  I don't know what I will do now.  I'd like to add a quote from John Greenleaf Whittier's poem "Maud Mullin":

    For of all sad words of tongue or pen
    The saddest are these -- it might have been.

    Thanks Jeralyn. (5.00 / 2) (#241)
    by mattt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:25:34 PM EST
    I thought Clinton's speech was outstanding.  Not just what she had to say, but a stirring and eloquent statement on Democratic values and where we need to lead the nation.  

    I almost pity John McCain for the beating he's going to take in November.

    Thanks all at TL (5.00 / 3) (#243)
    by Elijah Trotsky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:39:47 PM EST
    You have been sooo great.  I can't vote for the DNC's candidate and I don't have much in common with Obama supporters, so I will mind my business and go about it..I'd rather see unveiled misogyny in power than someone hiding behind the wonderful tradition that is the Democrats.  As well, I think that a more moderate Republican party, watered down by Democrats is our only way to progress, at this point.

    I will check in with this amazingly coherent site and wait to fight another day.

    I am sure there will be some protest candidate I can ink my ticket for here in Los Angeles, place of my birth..

    Enjoy the summer.

    It's all about democracy (5.00 / 10) (#245)
    by chopper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:22:54 PM EST
    I respect and admire Hillary tremendously, but I also believe in democracy.

    This last year has been a show of anything but democracy. The caucuses were corrupt to the point of including force, threats, theft, and, fraud.

    Obama "won" his delegates based on the caucuses, so I consider him an illegitimate candidate. That was not democracy.

    We all know what happened in Florida and Michigan.  I consider that collusion between Obama and the DNC.  That was not democracy.

    I won't even go back to the Chicago tactics.  Most of us know about his Chicago friends, manuevers, and elections.

    As much as I admire and respect Hillary, I cannot bring myself to vote for Obama.  I think the concept of democracy has been shattered by Obama and the DNC and I don't approve of it one bit.

    I don't know if I will sit it out, vote for a third party candidate, write-in Hillary, or consider McCain. I do know I will not vote for Obama.

    Yup (5.00 / 7) (#246)
    by smott on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:34:51 PM EST
    I cannot be a member of a party that consciously disenfranchises voters to intall a particular candidate.

    I de-affiliated and I'm an Indie now.

    Heck no I will not go (4.94 / 17) (#23)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:49:16 PM EST
    this is the only "blog I read" and I love Jeralyn and BTDs perspective.  I will not comment about what I will do or not do, but I will be here.  I will read and I will discuss.  

    I plan to stick around (5.00 / 15) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:11:18 PM EST
    I trust that Jeralyn will not let this site turn into another DKos.

    Parent
    I've really come to enjoy BTD's political analysis (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM EST
    A tad rigid at time, but on the whole very, very good. Don't want to miss that.

    Parent
    I really do (5.00 / 2) (#170)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:50:27 PM EST
    not see BTD drinking the koolaide.

    I beleive he will still comment on his frustrations... however, supporting the Dem Party to get us in the WH!

    Parent

    Good for you (5.00 / 3) (#145)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:36:28 PM EST
    Stella, but some of us will take another course. I will miss you great comments. Best to you and yours.

    Parent
    and we're certainly free to bash the media (5.00 / 4) (#181)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:55:33 PM EST
    In fact, just after her speech, they've been horrible yet again. One guy just said Hillary remarked in her speech of the progress she believes were made for women. Unbelievable. Just no bashing of "the one". Snark. OK, had to get one last one in there. :-)

    I for one am available 24/7 for MSNBC bashing. As well as bashing certain blogs. I hope the unity wanted for the party doesn't include being nice to those horrible, misogynistic, anti-democratic monsters. Hmm, can I say that. :-)

    Parent

    Good for you Stella.... (4.91 / 12) (#30)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:52:00 PM EST
    ...I'm not leaving in a huff. I just know that if I posted what's in my heart I won't be able to say much.

    Parent
    I'll be here too (4.90 / 11) (#64)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:06:19 PM EST
    I'll comment when i have something to say or snark I need to share..here's a good one from my 80 yr old Dad - he's wondering whether Obama met with Hillary with no preconditions the other night.

    When I agree with Obama I'll say so, when I disagree I will say so too.  I never made the cut for cheerleading though.


    Parent

    I said on the other post that for me, (4.50 / 8) (#91)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:15:54 PM EST
    unless Hillary is the vp candidate, I will not be voting Obama and that since Jeralyn has declared this site officially for him, then if I can no longer blog here, I thank you for the opportunity given me to be here up until now. I will find either another place to be, or, perhaps read these posts, or perhaps find a new hobby. I've already changed my tv viewing habits and stopped reading the newspaper. I must say I have enjoyed so many of the posters here, and thank them for their insightful, honest, humorous, intelligent and respectful peek into their lives. I will miss them if I cannot stay. I hope I can stay.

    Parent
    Try it, you may like it afterall, Sam I am. (2.00 / 4) (#153)
    by lgm on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:39:04 PM EST
    I will not be voting Obama and that since Jeralyn has declared this site officially for him, then if I can no longer blog here,

    This is how blogs become echo chambers.  People only post on blogs they agree with 100%.  If you stick around, you might find out something about Obama that you didn't know, or even like.  

    This reminds me of my kids (and kids everywhere) who refused to try foods because they already know they didn't like them.  My 19 year old last month discovered he likes mushrooms.  Think of all those great mushrooms he missed.  Think of all those good candidates you miss voting for because you refuse to learn anything about them.

    Parent

    how can you compare dislike of food to principles? (5.00 / 7) (#191)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Must be a lack of principles :-) (5.00 / 6) (#215)
    by RalphB on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:10:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Perfect Analogy IMO (2.14 / 7) (#231)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:20:43 PM EST
    Now if Hillary and Obama had a significant difference in their voting record or policy positions, talking the lofty talk of principals would be reasonable.

    As it stands the Obama hate or Hillary hate has zero to do with principals and 100% to do with irrational emotional responses not far from children's fear of certain foods that they have not ever really tasted.


    Parent

    Thanks for your compliments to my (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    growth as a human being, for my analytical skills which I tried to master with an open mind to life-long-learning, and for the respect you are paying to the Clinton's supporters.

    Unity for Ever, kill you brain-juice stubborn, childish Clintonistas!!!

    What a pile of manure!

    Parent

    How insulting (5.00 / 11) (#224)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:15:25 PM EST
    of you to assume that we dislike or don't favor Obama because we refuse to learn anything about him.

    It's just the opposite. I probably know more about Obama than many of his followers, and I am certainly more objective about him than they are. That is exactly why I won't vote for him - because of what I know about him.

    I doubt very much if you can say the same thing about Hillary Clinton, because by following Obama, you very likely believed the lies he told about her.

    When are you folks going to wake up to the fact that you cannot win people over by insulting them and calling them ignorant?

    Meanwhile, right now I am thinking about the huge missed opportunity of the Democratic Party choosing the weaker candidate. But it is going to be interesting to watch the American people's reactions to learning a LOT more about him.

    Parent

    Most of us do our research (5.00 / 8) (#226)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    and then discuss it on blogs. We do not form our opinions based on other peoples' opinions. At least I don't. The research I have done on Obama presents a picture of a man not qualified for the office he is seeking, a man who is connected to very questionable people and has been for years, a man who has no loyalty to anyone but himself. This is not the person I want in the White House. I am sorry you do.

    Parent
    Rep Meeks' reaction to Hillary's speech on MessNBC (4.93 / 15) (#58)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:04:59 PM EST
    was a long drawn out "Woooooooooooow!" John Lewis gave her an A+.

    I say she knocked it out of the park--and if Obama wants to spend more time with his family for some reason, she has left herself in a position of incredible strength, retaining her supporters and probably wowing more than a few of her detractors.  

    KO was grudging, Tweety pretty laudatory, and Timmeh calmed down Keith to point out it was everything Barack could hope for.

    I didn't see any other MCM coverage, so don't know what else has been said.

    I wish I'd taped it, but it should be available somewhere...right?

    Anyway, I am still sad; I began teary, ended just utterly impressed with her. My respect for her has only increased during this campaign--much to my surprise, as I initially didn't ever want her to run! Oh, my. Good job, Hillary--I am just so sorry we didn't get you to the nomination.

    Keith Olbermann has nothing (5.00 / 19) (#70)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:08:36 PM EST
    to say that I ever want to hear again. He's turned himself into a clown.

    Parent
    Hear! Hear! (5.00 / 5) (#79)
    by clio on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:11:59 PM EST


    Parent
    He was always a clown ... (5.00 / 6) (#81)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:12:47 PM EST
    this election just gave him the ability to clearly show it.

    Parent
    Bravo and an idea for true unity (5.00 / 5) (#129)
    by BRockNYLA on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:31:16 PM EST
    How about the Obama followers us in boycotting KO?  That will go a long way to healing my wounds.  They need to recognize the absurdity of the way the media treated Sen. Clinton and make the KOs of the world pay a price.

    Parent
    Glad to see her getting her due (5.00 / 8) (#90)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:15:49 PM EST
    Meeks was very good.

    I was teary at the beginning too. I had the same trajectory as you over the last year.

    Nothing will ever make me watch KO again.  How could he even hint that what she said was not enough of an endorsement.  He's just a jerk.  I was glad when everyone else on his network put him in his place.  Including Buchanan before the speech saying it was not a federal offense for her to wait until today to do this.

    Parent

    Jeralyn (4.92 / 14) (#49)
    by standingup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:00:55 PM EST
    Thanks to you, BTD and Chris (whose post I read w/out commenting) for providing a sane sanctuary during the course of the primary.  I respect your choice to support the Democratic nominee even if I am not there myself.  I hope to continue reading TL posts as they will surely be of better quality and with a unique perspective that will be difficult to find elsewhere.  

    It has been a pleasure to cheer, support, rant and vent with everyone here as I followed Hillary's historic campaign.  I thought her speech today was one of the best I have heard and hope I will have another chance to vote for her as president some day in the future.  

    I thought it was a brilliant speech and (4.88 / 18) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:39:12 PM EST
    I was really proud of her.

    I also don't think she could have delivered a speech like it on Tuesday.  I am really glad she waited - got her next gameface on - and came out strong for the Democratic Party and the issues she cares about.

    I knew that she would come through.  I just did and it was well worth the wait.

    Agree 100% (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by indy in sc on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:18:08 PM EST
    That was an awesome speech.  I don't know how she was able to do it (and the post-speech greetings) without tearing up.  I would not have been able to do it--maybe I am not as strong a woman as she.  I probably would have gone up there and stuck out my middle finger...guess that's why I'm not a politician.

    Her message was well received by me and though I already supported Obama, I hope it moves some of the people saying "I will vote McCain" to "I won't make any decisions until Novemer."

    Parent

    Someone on MSNBC pointed out (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:29 PM EST
    that plenty of men cry during their concession speech.  of course if Hillary had done so they would have called it calculating and wondered what she was after.

    Parent
    I know I'm not as strong as she is--she's amazing. (5.00 / 6) (#105)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:47 PM EST
    Another reason I'm sad she's not the nominee.

    Parent
    not McCain, but Nader looks good about now... (2.66 / 3) (#206)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes - no way she could have put the same emotion (4.92 / 14) (#46)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:59:45 PM EST
    into it Tuesday night.  Good for her for knowing enough to wait, despite the idiot chorus calling on her to do otherwise.

    Parent
    Senator Barack Obama (4.88 / 9) (#4)
    by BDB on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:41:25 PM EST
    is the presumptive Democratic nominee.  Just as Senator McCain is the presumptive Republican nominee.

    That doesn't mean he isn't going to be the nominee, it just means, as you have pointed out Jeralyn, no one is actually the nominee until August.  

    Well yes (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by FleetAdmiralJ on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:56 PM EST
    But he is going to be the nominee unless, as they say, he's found in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy, as they say, or the equivalent thereof.

    It's over.

    Parent

    That's the GOP measure... (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by kredwyn on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:27:52 PM EST
    What happened to Spitzer shows that the Dem threshold is much much lower.

    Parent
    The presumption is that Clinton-Democrats' votes (5.00 / 5) (#202)
    by Mark Woods on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:02 PM EST
    are an entitlement due to Obama, and I will not give my vote to Obama unless he appoints Clinton VP. I am so disgusted by the DNC I cannot see any argument whatsoever for Florida Democrats to 'get in line'.

    Jeralyn makes a nice, peaceable and generally reasonable assertion, that we all 'should' support Obama. I do not believe in 'shoulds'.

    I used to give time, money and lots of volunteer hours to the DNC, but never again. I will change my affiliation as soon as I return to Miami, and I will not support the Democratic Party again.

    I am not a metaphorical 'abused spouse' and I will not compulsively nor willingly return to the 'abuser' to be hurt again.  Enough is enough.

    Parent

    That is so true, so I don't feel a need to (5.00 / 11) (#27)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:50:38 PM EST
    get behind obama.  I appreciate what Hillary had to say and the fact that she had to say them so people wouldn't get their panties in a twist, but obama has shown me nothing.

    Parent
    Also jeralyn said the flooowing: (5.00 / 8) (#34)
    by talex on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:53:53 PM EST
    "Even if you thought Hillary was the better candidate for President, she is no longer in the race. That is not going to happen".

    Well she didn't quit today - she suspended her campaign - and she did use the word suspend. That means her delegates will go to the convention and anything could happen.

    As I said the other day - if Obama implodes or if the GOP guts him bad between now and August the convention could bring an entirely different result.

    Parent

    And the sun is the presumptive center (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by ruffian on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:09:20 PM EST
    of the solar system.  I expect it to still be so in August, barring cataclysmic events.

    Parent
    Can you imagine the MCM heads exploding (meta- (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:10:11 PM EST
    phorically) should the Dem delegates come to the realization they need Hillary?

    That would make a convention Must See TV.

    Yeah, I know--FantasyLand, but bear with me while I adjust to reality.

    I would love two rounds of voting nevertheless.

    Parent

    Great speech (4.85 / 7) (#59)
    by bjorn on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:05:06 PM EST
    while I can't bear to give Obama's campaign financial support, I will root for him and vote for him.  Some of the excitement is gone, but I believe he can win.

    I won't vote for Obama (4.71 / 14) (#6)
    by dk on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:42:23 PM EST
    but I'm glad Hillary is still around to fight for important issues.

    10 comments per day - 2nd notice (5.00 / 7) (#51)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:02:02 PM EST
    Boris please read the rules.  Yesterday you were reminded that new commentors are allowed 10 comments, this morning you were reminded when you were at 20.

    Please respect the site rules and come back tomorrow.  Thanks.

    Parent

    Thanks for helping with the moderation (5.00 / 8) (#61)
    by Burned on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:05:21 PM EST
    I hope the increased need for it calms a little.

    Parent
    I would say to her- (5.00 / 7) (#193)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:01:29 PM EST
    You have been fighting for me.  Now the powers that be have made you stop.  It's my turn to fight now. Thank you for helping find my voice again. It will be loud.

    Parent
    unlike you, we have a mind of our own - that is (5.00 / 4) (#219)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:11:42 PM EST
    why Obama will never get our votes. My first job was selling yellow pages advertising and the first lesson was: if a woman answers and says no, forget it, she will not budge. If a man answers, flatter him and your chances will be greater!

    Parent
    No, would be the answer. (5.00 / 6) (#237)
    by RalphB on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:33:28 PM EST
    Can't vote for an inexperienced, unqualified person to be president.  Voting for Obama is asking for a term of Bush from the other side.  Disastrous in any case.  

    Clinton supporters are just that, not followers of some false messiah.


    Parent

    She could (4.73 / 15) (#38)
    by cmugirl on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:55:11 PM EST
    sit on my couch and hold my hand and beg, and I will still say no thanks.

    Parent
    That's a fair question, borislaminov (4.68 / 16) (#52)
    by dk on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:02:27 PM EST
    Here's how I look at it.  We all have roles to play.  Hillary is a leader.  Her role is to fight within the party for the policies and values of her followers.

    We followers have a different role to play.  When we see that our party, and the presumptive nominee of the party, has become corrupt (e.g. the disenfranchisement of voters), and takes part in and is complicit in wholescale sexism, homophobia, and irrational CDS, our job is to contribute to the downfall of the corrupt and sexist element.  The only power we have is our vote.  So by not voting for that corrupt segment, we hope that the leaders in our party like Hillary will eventually be able to save it.

    Will there be some negative consequences to our decision.  Of course.  But there are also negative consequences of allowing the status quo in our party. I realize you disagree with me on this, but in the long-term I believe the negative consequences of voting for Obama are worse than not voting for him.

    Parent

    This was insightful (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by deathofrock on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:11:35 PM EST
    Thank you so much! She almost had me wanting to vote for THE MAN, lol!

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 11) (#84)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:13:55 PM EST
    Hillary and her supporters were given a big collective black eye by O team, the media and their own party. Now we're supposed to put make up over it so they don't have to look at it. "Come on back into the house honey." Nope. I'm staying on the front lawn yelling this time.

    Parent
    dk - that's exactly how I feel. (5.00 / 4) (#171)
    by MMW on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:50:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Yup - I would hug her, thank her... (4.46 / 15) (#32)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:53:01 PM EST
    and tell her that whatever she wants to do in the future...I'll be there.

    But I cannot and will not ever vote for Barack Obama.  And depending upon the next two months, I may, indeed, vote against Barack Obama...if you know what I mean.

    Parent

    No to Obama (4.20 / 5) (#167)
    by mimi5 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:49:19 PM EST
    I supported Hillary Clinton for President.  As an independent voter I find both the Democratic and Republican parties lacking. All this talk of unity for the Democrats takes away from voters making an intelligent choice based on the candidates themselves.
    I see Obama as a mirror image of George Bush. Both have father issues that led to poor decisions/associations. Bush ran on being a uniter not a divider saying the problem was with the Washington insiders. Obama says the same thing. Bush was naive in invading Iraq and Obama is naive in his willingness to meet with the likes of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.  Bush attracted the far right of his party. Obama attracts the far left of his party. Just as the Bush presidency has been a disaster so would an Obama presidency at best.  
    Obama is passive-aggressive; he uses misdirection, and is duplicitous on an Orwellian level.  Obama would be dangerous as president.  While there are many issues on which I disagree with McCain I will support him putting my own self interests aside for the greater good of the country.


    Parent
    The best way to help Hillary (3.75 / 4) (#24)
    by s5 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:49:34 PM EST
    is to make sure she has an administration in the White House who she can work with, rather than obstructing her every move. Obama will work with her, McCain will veto and obstruct.

    Parent
    Obama will not support HRC (5.00 / 8) (#39)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:55:42 PM EST
    in terms of legislative action.  In fact, I never got an answer to a question I have asked many times..."If HRC gets truly UHC legislation passed will a 'President Obama' (gag) sign it"?

    No one has told me yes...and that's a very scary thing.

    Maybe he'll vote present or press the wrong button...again and again and again.

    Parent

    Can you envision the concession speech (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:11:43 PM EST
    Obama would have given today if the superdelegates had spines?

    He would not have been so gracious, he has no deep commitment to the people of this country (his is more localized to South Chicago), and he does not have the soul that is willing to work toward making sure every American has the opportunities he has had.

    He will do NOTHING to help Hillary succeed, and anyone who thinks he will hasn't paid attention to who Barack Obama is.


    Parent

    I get it, you like Hillary (1.00 / 0) (#93)
    by Artoo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:16:36 PM EST
    But seriously, how do you know? How in the world do you know?

    Parent
    The answer's been given (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:23:28 PM EST
    All you have to do is look at what he's done toknow what he would do.

    Graciousness, either in defeat or victory, is not his forte.

    Parent

    Hillary has been working with repubs (4.76 / 17) (#36)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:54:08 PM EST
    and dems her entire senate career.  I seriously don't think a McCain administration would obstruct just to get at her.  I think that is much more likely from an obama administration.

    Parent
    I actually think McCain would (5.00 / 10) (#101)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:20:05 PM EST
    give her some shining moments just to do a little "in your face" action against the democrats.

    Where Obama will not want her to have anything for fear she would cast a shadow over him. I haven't seen a gracious, decent, mature, or trustworthy act from him.

    He treats all of us like morons that he can just twist into whatever he wants with his "well, look" excuses and off-topic speeches. His political knowledge is even less than GWB had, and GWB was walking into a strong economy, and peaceful world.


    Parent

    Great speech (4.66 / 6) (#15)
    by abiodun on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:47:00 PM EST
    Sen Clinton could not have been clearer, and could not have given a better speech. She also made it clear she will continue to fight for the issues that are important to us as progressives.

    I am glad to be back in Democratic country here.

    Great Site (4.55 / 9) (#31)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:52:06 PM EST
    Jeralyn, thanks for providing a safe place all these months.  Right now I am not planning to vote for Obama, as I do not think he has earned our nomination.  When he loses, Hillary will get the party back - and myself.

    Let us look forward (4.55 / 9) (#47)
    by clio on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:00:26 PM EST
    to a day when neither the sex nor the color of a candidate is noticeable, let alone remarkable.

    We will never get there with McCain or any other current Republican.
    Obama has never been my first choice, but I recognize he and his campaign look forward to America's future, not, as does McCain,  back to our vanished and unrecoverable past.

    If Senator Clinton can look forward after her disappointment, I shall too.

    And mine (4.50 / 8) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:40:42 PM EST
    It was an excellent speech, and I look forward to Hillary's continued focus on our shared issues.

    Sen. Clinton did a great job. (4.33 / 6) (#82)
    by halstoon on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:13:03 PM EST
    Watching her, I was impressed with how well she has handled such a tumultuous time. Her speech was one of grace, dignity, and inspiration. She made it very clear what she wants to see happen; Barack Obama has to be elected president. As Jeralyn says, the alternative is simply unacceptable.

    My personal favorite line was when she talked about the temptation to play the 'what if' game. She made it clear to people: "Don't go there." As she said, every moment spent looking back is a moment wasted not looking forward, and we have to move this country forward, past the tragedies and blunders of the Bush administration, and we must not allow John McCain to continue policies that have given us an economy in crisis and a planet in peril.

    Hillary Clinton is a monumental figure in America, and I'm glad she's on our side.

    Uniity is the key here (4.00 / 7) (#108)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:21:15 PM EST
    I think a lot of people who read negative comments from "Obama supporters" should keep in mind that there is an active Republican campaign on the internet to keep the party divided.  The last few weeks have seen similar stuff from "Hillary supporters" on dKos.  They are laughably obvious.

    I was just over reading dKos and everyone over there has had effusive praise and many are organizing to drop donations to help pay her debts.  There is a spirit of reconciliation today and I think people should rightfully question those that are intentionally disrupting that. (and no, I don't mean those who are still disappointed, just those are being obviously disruptive).

    The most important thing for Hillary is to elect a Democrat.  The most important thing for Bill is to elect a Democrat.  The most important thing for our nation is to elect a Democrat.

    I have a sneaking feeling that Obama will select Hillary as VP, he just cannot do it under the "pressure campaign" from Lanny Davis and Robert Johnson.  In the next 6 weeks, if the polls don't move strong enough for him, she will clearly be on the ticket and we'll see what happens then.

    Uh. (5.00 / 10) (#189)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:00:25 PM EST
    I was just over reading dKos and everyone over there has had effusive praise and many are organizing to drop donations to help pay her debts.

    That's so nice.

    Sorry, but I'm done with that site and the people who write there for good.  Effusive praise for HRC a week ago would have caused you to be shunned like a leper.  Now it's okay.  

    Politics needn't be this stupid, and it wouldn't be if sites like that one had kept a minimum of sanity and decency.  They can go on writing for one another.

    Parent

    Welcome Back (4.00 / 2) (#216)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:10:43 PM EST
    I stuck it out and it has had some low moments, imo. Apart from the one note fanclubbers there have been some good discussion with new commenters who I hope stick around.

    Bye-bye (4.00 / 4) (#232)
    by facta non verba on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:22:03 PM EST
    No way Jeralyn. He is a danger. He will destroy the country. So bye-bye.

    If I hear another supposed Democrat... (3.85 / 7) (#242)
    by Dadler on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:37:37 PM EST
    ...who supported Hillary say they will not cast a vote for Obama, I'm going to vomit.  Fine, don't cast a ballot for president, let McCain finish the job Bush did of destroying this nation.  Forget a recession, your vote will bring a depression.  And, worse, it'll be a depression in a country armed to the teeth with private weapons.  I think Obama is naive, I fear his is a capitulator...but the thought of doing anything to help McCain in this general election literally makes me sick.  And the Chicago machine is NOTHING compared to the military/ industrial machine that IS John McCain.

    Get a grip, people.  Be angry, you deserve to be, but don't be so angry you forget that there is something much larger than you, or me, or anyone else.  Obama ain't gonna be no savior, but I can guarantee you McCain will be a destroyer.

    Crossing Jordan (3.83 / 6) (#73)
    by Oceandweller on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:10:39 PM EST
    I am aware most of the posts here are from Clinton voiters and boy#, did you pull a great fight. And we would not be here but for you, thanks. Thank you so much Senator Clinton, your speech was awesome and you made your country men and women proud.
    The rules of the Prinaries are too convolved to be fair, and need to be seriously amended, this was a fratricide , but it is over. We are togerher, many of us Obama voters voted for Obama while not dissing Hillary, I know many of you are mad at the media, the blogs and some of my own camp, where they really democrats those anonymous posters who abused you, I have my doubts.
    I voted like so many of my side for him hoping at the GE find them both together on the same ballot.The visionnary and the captain.
    We dont mean to dissrespect any of you, wee want just as much as you Hillary as Veep because like you we hope for 2012,2016. For whatever magic thing we selected Obama but the race was very close, very close and we have just started running together. We are all democrats, she endorsed Brack and oh boy, do us, the Os we are going to be behind her, supporting her as now that god-awful intestine war is over. You bled, lets assure we did not like it.
    You are right to get the issue of sexism and racism discussed because we cant put up with that awful mess . This was a very humiliating disgusting fight and at the end we all lost or rather could have lost our very souls if... we cant stand despite all that together. United we can accomplish so much and victory is bitter when there is no one to share it with you.
    There is no set back, there is no loss and no victory because the battle to win is in November not in June. Hillary is a great person, a great politician and she is our Veep in waiting. I know some people will not believe this coming from a O-bot as they say, it is your right, but take time to reflect, those Primaries are just what they are , just the very first step. if you ,if I bolt at the very first drop of rain, how do we win. If you add your strength to my might, we are not 18millions aside 18millions, we are winners together.

    I'm an Obama supporter and I am close to tears (3.55 / 9) (#97)
    by democrattotheend on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:17:55 PM EST
    I didn't want to watch but my mom talked me into it. I knew that I would feel sad, and a little guilty, and I do. Does anyone else think she looked like she had been crying? When I saw her come on stage it looked like she had been crying. I knew she would tug at my heartstrings a little...I'm just glad she didn't get choked up, because I think I would have if she did.

    I know it must not have been easy for her to say what she said about Obama and I give her credit for it. I do feel bad for her, and for all of the women who look up to her (and I used to be one of them) and feel like their dreams are coming to an end. I believe we will have a woman president in my lifetime, but I am sad that we may not see one in my great aunt's lifetime. I am proud that we are making history by nominating an African American for president, and I am more excited about Obama than I have ever been about a candidate. But I do feel bad for Hillary Clinton and her supporters, and even though I am an Obama supporter I feel like I might cry.

    I can just imagine how hard this is for her supporters...if I had been a Clinton supporter I don't think I could have even watched. Four years ago I couldn't watch Dean's concession speech...I just didn't have the heart. For those of you who supported her my heart goes out to you.

    I appreciate your graciousness and your decision to throw your full support behind Senator Obama. I think (or at least I hope) that once you start listening to him without the prism of him being an opponent you'll like him a lot more.

    I will never like him (5.00 / 4) (#112)
    by sarahfdavis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:23:22 PM EST
    his trashing of the clintons and the other horrible stuff he did makes that impossible. not to mention the hatred he inspires in his supporters. i'm not sure i can vote for him. probably not. i'll have to try to be one one millionth as strong as HIllary and ignore the abuse to vote for him. but thanks for the words.

    Parent
    Does your mother think (5.00 / 9) (#117)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:26:54 PM EST
    that she will see a woman president in her lifetime?  Do you think your mother will see it?  Just curious, trying to understand young women willing to wait.

    I'm with the Rev. Dr. Anna Howard Shaw, president of NAWSA, when she said to a president's face: "How long must women wait?"  Almost a century ago.

    Parent

    By Cream (5.00 / 3) (#139)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:34:44 PM EST
    I'll miss ya. Thanks for your many informative, passionate and often funny comments. I enjoyed them so much.

    Parent
    My mom is a passionate Obama supporter (4.00 / 3) (#173)
    by democrattotheend on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:52:49 PM EST
    And she remains much more resentful of Hillary than I do. My grandmother supports Obama too...she marched with MLK 45 years ago and unlike many older women, I think for her, seeing an African American president in her lifetime would mean even more than seeing a woman president.

    As a young woman, the fact that Hillary is a woman was definitely a consideration for me when I decided who to support, it just wasn't the only consideration. I tried to convince myself to support her, but no matter how much I tried my heart was with Obama. I just felt that his campaign was unique and historic and I saw him capture the imagination of people my age who were never interested in politics and I said to my mom "how can I sit on the sidelines"? I like Hillary Clinton but I think Barack Obama is something extraordinary and I am just as excited about electing an African American president as I would have been about a woman. I was proud that either way we were going to make history this year, and I am proud of both of these exceptional candidates.

    And in answer to your question, my mom does believe that she will see a woman president in her lifetime.

    Parent

    Now you've gone and done it! I'm actually crying (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by jawbone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:29:40 PM EST
    after reading your piece.

    Enough! It's going to be very, very hot here in northern NJ, our first heatwave of the season, and I'm not at all ready for it. Like I have to put the window air condition in the bedroom. Maybe kitchen as well, but I'm trying to use less electricity.

    Which, of course, brings up energy costs and global warming.

    Something is going to have to be done for the health and safety of many older people, those for whom income is fixed and who are subject to bad effects of overheating. Something will need to be done for people who will no longer be able to afford both food and gas to get to work.

    In the interim, we need something like Energy Stamps, similar to Food Stamps--and we're going to need it before there are high numbers of deaths.

    Let us hope for an overall cooler summer.

    And for some strong Dem to initiate such a program before the election--we need those older voters!

    In the long run, we need to make solar electricity generation affordable for the poor and those on fixed incomes.  Every building should have solar collectors--and research should be in place to make them more efficient, etc.

    Anyway, we need more and better Democrats! Now, off the basement....

    Parent

    If he ever has anything to say besides (5.00 / 7) (#140)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:34:53 PM EST
    hope and change maybe he will get a few votes from Hillary's side.  Many who are totally supporting Hillary because of her experience and qualifications, will probably not vote for obama.  Because the more we know of him, the less likely it is that will happen.

    Parent
    Somehow it's never Sweetie's turn is it? (5.00 / 7) (#148)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:37:20 PM EST
    I couldn't stomach Obama's tone deaf oblique compliment about how great the history for women would be for his daughters -- someday -- when they were grown up.

    Eventually Club Obama will formally set up a Ladies' Auxiliary tent -- like a runoff freakshow or pink popcorn concession, and we can watch feminism be derided from that sideshow.

    Meh. Don't know how I'd react if it had funnel cakes though.

    Parent

    Samanthasdad (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:07:41 PM EST
    is Pennsylvania Dutch, and funnel cakes are a specialty of the house here.

    Parent
    They're almost everything I'm against in food ... (none / 0) (#229)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:20:06 PM EST
    ... But man oh man are they delicious! (I'm normally very righteous in what I eat.)

    Parent
    A little guilty? (5.00 / 4) (#169)
    by hitchhiker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:50:03 PM EST
    Look, I know you're meaning well here.  You want everyone to know that you didn't hate HRC so much as love BO.

    Best leave it at that, unless you mean to say that allowing her to be called a racist merits only "a little" guilt.

    Parent

    Obama is fundraising for Hillary (3.42 / 7) (#127)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:30:17 PM EST
    If you go to the Obama homepage, he is organizing his small donors to donate to Hillary right on his homepage.  Check it out.

    www.barackobama.com

    That is a classy move by him and I think it exemplifies the message of unity and reconciliation for today.

    Or, it was a request (5.00 / 7) (#138)
    by dk on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:33:26 PM EST
    of the party bigwigs who supported him and allowed for the disenfranchisement of millions of voters.

    Parent
    Who are these party bigwigs? (none / 0) (#204)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:13 PM EST
    This is not snark or anything, I just don't know who these "party bigwigs" are that would have any control over anything.  The party could not even control the election calendar.

    Parent
    And it was reported today that his (5.00 / 5) (#156)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:40:30 PM EST
    "small" donors have made it plain they don't want their money to go to Hillary's campaign.  So while it looks good to have that on his homepage...it is just more b.s.

    Parent
    Thanks for the poor rating (none / 0) (#194)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:01:57 PM EST
    As I posted before, I don't how it can be reported that his small donors don't want anything.  Did someone poll all 1.5 million of them or something?  Am I missing something?  Is it too hard to recognize and appreciate when people are helping each other out?

    Parent
    You need to ask his campaign that.... (5.00 / 5) (#205)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:13 PM EST
    ...because it was, in fact, reported that way on MSNBC. None of us here can tell you if its true or not, but we aren't making it up.

    Parent
    Was it "reported" (none / 0) (#212)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:09:27 PM EST
    or just stated as a matter of opinion?  Like people state the opinion that "Bill Clinton is now damaged" like there is empirical evidence that it is even true.  I am just curious.  Because cable news does a lot of this crap and it mixes actual fact with opinion.

    It also does not make a lot of sense, because the Obama campaign cannot give any money from their campaign fund to Clinton.  The only thing he can do is ask his supporters to give to her and that is exactly what he did.

    Parent

    Hillary is also (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:44:23 PM EST
    supporting Obama. Look at her website.Hillary

    BTW, I donated to her campaign. I do not want her to be in debt.

    Parent

    That's cool (2.33 / 3) (#188)
    by debrazza on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:59:03 PM EST
    I like it.  We can now move forward united.

    I don't know why people cast negative aspersions on any of this.  And I don't know who claims that Obama's "small donors" said anything.  Considering that he has over 1.5 million, it seems hard that they could collectively say anything.

    Parent

    Ah St. Obama - is his next move going to be manna (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:15:24 PM EST
    from heaven to bring us back?

    Parent
    Wonder if he'll suggest ... (4.83 / 6) (#135)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:32:40 PM EST
    that those donations should only be given "periodically"?

    ;)

    Parent

    Some self-interest too (none / 0) (#150)
    by vj on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:38:03 PM EST
    One of the talking heads on CNN pointed out that many of Hillary's contributors aren't legally able to give her any more money, but they could contribute to Obama in the GE.  It is in the Obama campaign's intererest to have to good will of Clinton, her supports & contributors.

    Parent
    Not the end of the world (3.00 / 4) (#130)
    by caliman on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:31:30 PM EST
    A McCain victory would not be too bad. He is a moderate to liberal republican.

    With McCain we could see immigration reform that recognizes the value of long term immigrants by providing a path to legal status.

    With McCain we could have campaign finance reform.

    With McCain we would have reform of military procurement that significantly reduces waste and abuse.

    In other words he would not be all bad for liberals like myself.

    I really think Obama is not qualified to be President and especially not someone I want as commander in chief. He is just too naive and I think willing to concede without conditions to our real enemies. Perhaps it is his muslim family background but I don't see him as wary enough about the danger poised to us by radical islamic extremism. In short I don't trust him and have legitimate reason to doubt his values.

    I see McCain as a placeholder for the next president. He won't do any real harm and he can accomplish some good. In the meantime I really do trust him on national defense issues.  

    yes, end of the world (3.66 / 3) (#162)
    by gnipgnop on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:44:43 PM EST
    McCain would likely do massive harm. Think...

    Covering up GW's crimes

    perhaps 2 ultraconservative Supreme Court Nominees

    Already violating his own campaign finance laws

    Staying in Iraq forever

    Etc

    Etc

    Parent

    So we can vote downticket Dem (5.00 / 6) (#175)
    by echinopsia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:53:25 PM EST
    And ensure a Democratically-controlled Congress.

    And we can hope that they grow spines.

    Parent

    Hillary has the right stuff (3.00 / 4) (#144)
    by gnipgnop on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:36:21 PM EST
    I thought Hillary's speech today was incredible. She's a class act, but this time according to these crazy primary rules it didn't work out.

    I think working for justice now means defeating McCain so I'm voting for Obama.

    Thanks Jeralyn.

    Gnip

    Obama supporter here (3.00 / 4) (#197)
    by r0undhouse on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:03:48 PM EST
    & I understand this is a somewhat hostile environment, but I would have supported Hillary should she have won the nom, and just about every other Obama supporter I know feels the same way..... I just don't get some of the comments in here.  We are all Left/Progressive/Democrats, no?  Although I don't doubt that there are jackass Obama supporters, I have seen crude comments from the Hillary supporters as well....nevertheless this country can't take any more Republican rule.

    Gay Issues (5.00 / 4) (#220)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:12:09 PM EST
    I will continue to push Obama and all progressive on gay issues. For a progressive candidate I find his platform very lacking. We need to support either gay marriage or civil unions. (I really don't care what the label is) at a national level, not the ground up. I want to be able to have the same federal legal rights as any of my straight friends. Gays should also be allowed to participate in the military. This decision can't be left to the generals. I hope he is pressured by the progressive community to alter his position.

    Parent
    Supporting Hillary (3.00 / 2) (#214)
    by Oceandweller on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:09:49 PM EST
    A campaign costs a lot of money, can we contribute to that debt, I did contribute to Obama but I still have somme left over from the magic $2300 limit. As a democrat, I see no problem helping to erase her burden.

    As for those who grudge Barack plasying golf, I dont begrudge him to little deseret island of quiet. He has 5 months non stop to go, he certainly will watch or read her speech, he needs a break , times are a- getting tougher now. And yes, the training , the drill she gave it, is making him stronger.

    Addendum (3.00 / 2) (#239)
    by BillyPilgrim on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:33:59 PM EST
    One other thing, please to do not assume that because some Obama supporters are rude or sexist that they represent the majority of us.  The people that I know who have supported Obama have been consistently respectful.  We all intended to vote for Clinton in the general, and would have been happy with her as well.  I think the internet tends to magnify the most extreme or virulent, be it movie critics or political watchers.  If nothing else, I just ask that we are not stereotyped or pilloried because of a vocal minority.

    I disagree, I think her speech will hurt woman. (1.57 / 7) (#207)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:05:22 PM EST
    I believe she's right when she says there will come a time when a woman potus is unremarkable.

    Sadly, much of her speech defined the woman's place in our society as win/lose, us v them.

    I think if you define a woman elected to potus as a "win" for women, then it will never be unremarkable.

    And imo, there will never be a woman president until such a thing is unremarkable.

    She energized both those who desperately want a woman potus, and, I think, those who desperately don't want one.

    I think her speech also energized some who didn't have much opinion either way - again, some for, and some against.

    She even more clearly and strongly defined a woman potus as remarkable.

    I think her speech drew the lines more sharply in the sand.

    imo, that is entirely the wrong tactic.

    So a woman president is remarkable, (5.00 / 9) (#225)
    by eleanora on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:15:52 PM EST
    but we can't remark on that fact or we'll never get one? How on earth do you make something that has never happened before in the history of this country unremarkable? Sounds like like the "heads we win, tails you lose" arguments that have become so prevalent lately. Sit down and shut up, women, because you're just so shrill and unattractive when you fight hard. No thanks.

    Parent
    Actually, If we follow (none / 0) (#164)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:47:05 PM EST
    Sen Clinton... she will take care of us.

    We have to give her the power to represent out well being.

    OUR not out (none / 0) (#176)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:53:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Democracy shattered (none / 0) (#247)
    by chopper on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:59:44 PM EST
    I respect and admire Hillary tremendously, but I also believe in democracy.

    This last year has been a show of anything but democracy. The caucuses were corrupt to the point of including force, threats, theft, and, fraud.

    Obama "won" his delegates based on the caucuses, so I consider him an illegitimate candidate. That was not democracy.

    We all know what happened in Florida and Michigan.  I consider that collusion between Obama and the DNC.  That was not democracy.

    I won't even go back to the Chicago tactics.  Most of us know about his Chicago friends, manuevers, and elections.

    As much as I admire and respect Hillary, I cannot bring myself to vote for Obama.  I think the concept of democracy has been shattered by Obama and the DNC and I don't approve of it one bit.

    I don't know if I will sit this one out, vote for a third party candidate, write-in Hillary, or vote for McCain. I do know I will not vote for Obama.

    Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#249)
    by AX10 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:28:35 PM EST
    I must take issue when you call on her 18 million voters to support Obama.  Each individual has the right to cast their votes as an individual.
    Each person must chose what they will do with their vote.

    Bravo, well said. n/t (none / 0) (#250)
    by Lupin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:51:16 AM EST


    long view (none / 0) (#251)
    by Lupin on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:58:32 AM EST
    Personally, neither Obama not Clinton were progressive enough for my taste, and I'm far from thrilled with Obama's platform either.

    Obviously I want him to win the election, but I fully expect to be in the "opposition" as soon as he is elected.

    In particular vis a vis healthcare (where he must be far bolder) and foreign policy (which has to be completely rethought).

    But one step at a time.

    Obama and the law (none / 0) (#252)
    by bluejane on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:49:05 AM EST
    Hope Talk Left keeps Obama's feet to fire on pushing Congress to restore the Constitution (habeas, rewrite Patriot Act, nix warrantless surveillance and immunity for telcos -- partial list); instruct Justice Dept to assign a special prosecutor to investigate Bush, Cheney, Addington, Rice, Yoo, ByBee for all sorts of crimes including torture and lying us into war etc and bring cases before grand jury. The rule of law -- and hence our freedom -- has been broken, damaged and diminished during the Bush era and hopefully Sen Obama will not be so wedded to "unity" or hesitant to take the (important) political risks to make the fuss necessary to protect and defend the Constitution and enforce the law in the context of national security and unravel the uber powers of Executive tyranny Bush/Cheney have built. It's not gonna be easy to dismantle and yet it's imperative that the loaded gun be unloaded so it's not left lying around for a less benevolent future president than we expect Barack Obama to be.

    Talk Left could have a crucial role is articulating these imperatives and how to get there. Plus there are lots of court cases dealing with law and rights in the age of terrorism where only Talk Left (and maybe the ACLU) can take by the horns (law vs war, in fact, is certain to be an ongoing debate when it comes to terrorism and national security, the former being in many ways more effective than the latter).

    Thanks, Jeralyn, for providing us with a safe and enlightening harbor in the storm.

    And thanks to BTD, too! (nt) (none / 0) (#253)
    by bluejane on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:52:57 AM EST


    To all the Hillary supporters who just can't (none / 0) (#254)
    by LeelaSavage on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:04:22 AM EST
    support Obama, there is a new pac - PUMA PAC - where people who feel like you do are gathering to put the attention, money and work into defeating him and supporting a better candidate.  You can check it out at:  

    http://blog.pumapac.org/

    There is a lot going on for those of us who just can't manage to support the DNC in this travesty.  Good luck to all of you.  

    We Are Not Done With This Woman (none / 0) (#255)
    by bob h on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:00:49 AM EST
    It being entirely possible that the problems we face will overwhelm the new President, whoever he is, and that the country will remember Clinton in 2012.  Gas at $6-7, healthcare that resist reform, Iraq quagmire that resists endgame, etc.

    Democrats in 2012 might have learned that you should go with your head and not your heart.

    Hillary gave a great speech, but I (none / 0) (#256)
    by dugan49 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:59:28 AM EST
    will make up my own mind about what to do in November. It will probably be a Clinton write in, or no vote at the top of the ballot.

    Obama's lies about his church, and that 20 year span, are too much. He should have broke with his racialist pastors , long, long, ago.

    I cannot vote for someone who closed his eyes to that kind of organized psychological separation of the races.

    Thank you, Jeralyn, (none / 0) (#257)
    by bordenl on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:57:28 PM EST
    for writing this with class and dignity. I will visit more often now that the comment threads will be less sewerlike.

    A woman president (none / 0) (#258)
    by bordenl on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:36:43 PM EST
    I believe that this will happen in the next 20 years. We have finally seen the MSM begin to cover the passion of Hillary Clinton supporters and their strong desire to have a woman president. Some of the people interviewed could easily have commented here. Hillary Clinton supporters stuck with their candidate despite her consistently high negatives and never gave in to the fear of what was done to her and what would continue to be done to her. In the future, pundits will understand that a woman candidate will get all of those passionate supporters. They may even watch their mouths! Or be obsolete! The same generation to whom Barack Obama's being black was not an issue will not find a candidate's being a woman an issue, nor will the generation after them. A candidate who is not Hillary Clinton, with her baggage from the past administration, will have the power to change the narrative about gender which Barack Obama had about race. This will make her appealing to a newer generation as well.  

    My Thoughts on Hillary's Speech | 229 comments (229 topical)