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Saturday Morning Open Thread

Todd Beeton has a report on Chelsea Clinton's speech to the Texas Democratic Party:

"My mother wanted me to be very clear - we are going to [be] united," Chelsea told Texas Democrats. Her mother, she noted, will be endorsing her formal rival tomorrow. Hillary Clinton will reaffirm "her life-long commitment to support and elect Democrats and Sen. Obama in November," the younger Clinton said.

This is an Open Thread.

< Clinton Dems: Will Obama Fight For Them? Part 2 | Pre-Clinton Speech Media Thread >
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    Prediction (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:23:05 AM EST
    As the big guys preside at Hillary's funeral today, nothing she says will be good enough.  But they are enthralled by her, afraid of her power, and will not leave her alone, no matter what she does.

    Yes. (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:34:30 AM EST
    "...enthralled by her, afraid of her power, and will not leave her alone,...."

    to wit:  they.can't.stop.talking.about.her.at.
    one.of.those.big."progressive".bright-colored.blogs

    They're going to need a group intervention for their addiction to all things Hillary.

    What exactly is it about a powerful and smart woman that men are so afraid of?

    Parent

    This (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:39:05 AM EST
    That she doesn't need them.

    Parent
    A not-so minor point (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Lou Grinzo on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:22:50 AM EST
    "What exactly is it about a powerful and smart woman that men are so afraid of?"

    I respectfully suggest you add a "some" before "men" in that statement.

    I can't speak for other men, but I, personally, have no fear whatsoever of powerful, smart, strong, ambitious, tough women.  I married just such a woman almost 29 years ago and have loved every moment of our time together.  

    [joke] And I'm not just saying that out of fear. [/joke]

    Parent

    Yep, I have married both kinds of men (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:54:42 AM EST
    and only wish I had picked so wisely, about 30 years ago, too, as your wife did.  Fear not, you good guys out there.  Some women finally figure it out. :-)  

    Parent
    Thank you. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Cal on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:41:41 PM EST
    Your comment is appreciated and accepted. You are right.

    Parent
    Indeed, (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by sander60tx on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:00:19 AM EST
    the orange place is going to devote the entire day tomorrow to a symposium about "why Hillary lost."  Not going there tomorrow.  However, I have ventured over there a few times in the last couple days and found some somewhat conciliatory attempts to unify there (like the one on the front page now, that have been worth reading (for me).  

    Parent
    They've got to give their fans.... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:30:01 AM EST
    ...what they want. Somebody needs to tell them its time to ratchet up their McCain hate instead.

    Parent
    Don't like weak women, they get bored too quick (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:00 AM EST
    Has this dynamic ever been nailed better than by Joni Mitchell?

    You don't like weak women,
    You get bored too quick
    And you don't like strong women
    Cause they're hip to your tricks

    ...

    But if you've got too many doubts
    If there's no good reception for me
    Then tune me out, 'cause honey
    Who needs the static
    It hurts the head
    And you wind up cracking
    And the day goes dismal

    From "Breakfast Barney"
    To the sign-off prayer
    What a sorry face you get to wear
    I'm going to tell you again now
    If you're still listening there


    Parent

    The Best (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:00:41 AM EST
    Nothing in life has been nailed better than by Joni Mitchell.  Hence my email address.

    Parent
    I don't think anyone on Obama's (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by masslib on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:31:10 AM EST
    team, or even BTD get it.  Hillary Clinton Democrats wanted Hillary to be President because she knows how to govern.  I cannot believe Obama and his staff are so arrogant as to not know that.

    Apparently (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:35:37 AM EST
    Quoting Chelsea Clinton is an example of me not getting it.

    Look, state your opinions but please stop just hurling sh*t at me.

    Parent

    I haven't hurlded anything at you. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by masslib on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:38:25 AM EST
    I'm sorry.  I took this as an open thread.

    Parent
    I wasn't calling you arrogant by the way. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by masslib on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:44:20 AM EST
    You've called for the Unity ticket and for me that would make me feel safe.  So, I think I misworded that.

    Parent
    How is that unity ticket coming along btw? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by TheViking on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:38:58 AM EST
    Thought I'd just check in and see ...

    ... nope ... didn't think so ...

    Parent

    I do. (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by ccpup on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:36:41 AM EST
    Anyone who's arrogant enough to believe he can win the General Election without those core Demographics the Dems have relied on for decades or without the votes of nearly half (Gallup recently had it at almost 40%) of the 18 million who supported his rival is arrogant enough to not see the fact that we saw his opponent as the one who could govern better and was more than an empty suit chose by the Powers That (Wanna)Be in the DNC.

    His historic loss in November should do a bit to deflate that oversize ego.

    Parent

    Democratic Nomination (1.00 / 1) (#10)
    by 1jane on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:52:42 AM EST
    Chelsea's message foreshadows today's remarks in DC. Texas was the state that Clinton hailed as a comeback after the loss of 11 straight contests. In the end, Obama got more delegates from Texas.

    Parent
    Well if that foreshadows today... (5.00 / 11) (#11)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:55:42 AM EST
    ...it ain't too good in my book. Clinton wins the state but Obama gets more delegates. That's supposed to make it okay?

    Parent
    yes (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:05:38 AM EST
    She won the popular vote and Obama got more delegates everywhere, not just in Texas.

    I think Primary reform is one of the things that need to be addressed before I can rationally decide the the Democratic Party and Obama has earned my vote and support.

    Parent

    Primary reform not likely if Obama wins in Nov (none / 0) (#25)
    by gram cracker on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:32:09 AM EST
    Obama, Dean, Daschle, Kennedy, etc. are not likely to want to change a primary process that successfully achieved their objective.

    It will take Obama losing in November to drive change.

    Parent

    Does that mean ... (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Inky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:44:30 AM EST
    I have to hold my nose and vote for McCain in order to try to fix the process?

    If so, so be it.

    Parent

    God Almighty, 1jane (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:08:11 AM EST
    You just can't seem to stop yourself.
    Seriously, I'm beginning to believe you must be a paid agitator.

    Parent
    1jane secretly works for the Republicans (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:55:11 AM EST
    It may be so much of a secret that even she is unaware.

    Parent
    LOL -- Samantha chose well! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:59:28 AM EST
    Thanks; I need all the smiles I can get after a brutal week. :-)

    Parent
    If so, Suki, I think we can agree (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:57:45 AM EST
    that 1jane is overpaid. :-)

    Parent
    What are the chances (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:28:29 AM EST
    that Texas will go blue in November?

    Heh.

    Parent

    next to none! (none / 0) (#139)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    This is a true republican state - it literally would take an earthquake to change the dynamics. You forget, thanks to deLay, the state is redistricted to almost a single vote where it would take a miracle to overcome it!

    Parent
    next to none! (none / 0) (#140)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:34:48 PM EST
    Thanks to DeLay, the state is redistricted in such a way that it will take a miracle for the dems to win it.

    This was a real ugly fight and the beginning of the corruption charges against him. He spent months in Austin where they used computers and voter registrations to pinpoint every voter's affiliation and carved out the electoral map accordingly to give the most advantage to reps. It's close to foolproof.

    On the other hand if Hillary was the nominee, and the love the hispanics have for her, she might have swung enough of their districts to clinch it but there is a lot of distrust between hispanics, latinos and AA. It's impossible for Obama to win Texas, the AA population is not as big as the hispanic - they'll cancel each other out.  

    Parent

    the fewer votes obama gets, (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by sancho on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:18:30 AM EST
    the more delegates he receives and states he wins. as in michigan. he's like bush (a vote rigger)--except a "democrat." i find chelsea inspiring but i need some reasons to vote for obama other than he labelled himself a "democrat." given where he is starting from (chicago), he had no choice. his "label" does not mean he really is one, though. hillary is a dem all the way--that's one reason she gets such abuse. obama strikes me as power-crazy and the weak dem party offered his shortest ride to power.

    Parent
    1jane, we ALL KNOW what happened ... (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:30:02 AM EST
    in Texas! The Obamabully machine happened. Although an apparently moot point now, there are still litigious contentions in process because of the illegalities perpetrated by Osupporters!

    Parent
    Headline in today houston chronicle (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:05:04 AM EST
    www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5824089.html

    June 6, 2008, 11:13PM
    TEXAS DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION
    Unhealed wounds
    Passions run deep as many delegates voice objections and support for Obama, Clinton

    Whoa (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:08:29 AM EST
    Koolaid overdose here:

    the former first lady was always behind, despite clinging on with famous victories in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania.

    Imagine that!  Clinging to victories in the biggest states in the country!  What nerve.

    Is that anything like "clinging" to (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:10:42 AM EST
    their religion and guns?

    Parent
    Factually incorrect doesn't begin to cover that (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by kempis on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:56 AM EST
    Hillary had the lead until after Super Tuesday, when her campaign went flat-footed and Obama sprinted through two weeks of victories, racking up a structural delegate lead.

    But if we look at what happened in ALL contests from March 1 to the bitter end, Hillary out-performed Obama in popular votes and primary wins. I don't know about the delegate count since March 1, but I know Hillary was the voters' choice in most primaries post March 1.

    Obama has a SERIOUS electability problem. Let's be frank: most Americans will not vote for a guy whose preacher of 20 years is on tape shouting "God d*mn America," among other insane things. He cannot win. But apparently most of the media and the DNC live in a bubble and are unaware of this.

    I will vote for him because I must. But I'm probably going to look at my nails when someone goes into a rant about his associations, his unpreparedness, and his lack of substance. I'll vote for him only because I do not want a Republican--ANY Republican--in the White House.

    But I deeply resent the media bias that continues to this day. Hell, it's gone beyond bias and into downright lies, all the better to glorify Obama and demonize Hillary. Not helpful. The unity pony balks at this sort of thing.

    Parent

    Can't you just be out of town... (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:19:59 AM EST
    on election day and have forgotten to get your absentee ballot?  Please - don't vote for BO...it only validates all of the BS that is and will be going on for the next 6 months.  It's rewarding truly horrible behavior by BO and his minions - including those at the DNC.

    Parent
    Per RCP (none / 0) (#85)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:18:15 AM EST
    I use RCP because I can copy right in to excel although I prefer greenpapers but you have to look everything up one state at a time and you can't copy the date.  You have to enter the data by hand (pain in the rear).

    I haven't updated my RCP prior states in about a week (the numbers change as the states update) but...

    Here's what it looks like per Clinton
    Votes:
    March + 214,000
    April +214,000
    May +66,000
    June +124,000

    Delegates  (total with SDs, which I don't like but it will take me some time to get thru green papers)  
    Mar -5
    Apr +12
    May +14
    June +20

    but now that you've asked, I am going to have to go thru greenpapers and see what really happened.

    Parent

    Error... (none / 0) (#96)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:22:16 AM EST
    I think the delegates are correct.  The SDs are listed separately at the top on RCP.  duh.

    Parent
    Why do we have to choose.... (none / 0) (#136)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:44:13 AM EST
    between the lesser of 2 evils?
    Why can't we choose the RIGHT person for once?

    Parent
    Hillary (and Chelsea and Bill) can (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:14:39 AM EST
    say whatever may be expected of them. Imagine if Sen. Clinton said, and so, as this campaign year moves forward, I will be changing my registration and will be running as an independent candidate. I urge my supporters to vote for whomever they choose and I highly support and respect each and every vote you cast for me or my opponent and dear friend, Barack.

    Would (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:17:35 AM EST
    you expect Chelsea to say anything less?

    The problem is that all the rhetoric from the Clintons won't really help Obama. Obama is the problem and he's going to have to solve that himself not rely on someone else.

    His campaign seems to have this general cluelessness about voters. They seem to think that an endorsement by Hillary will bring her voters along. Or an endorsement by hispanic leaders will get hispanic votes.

    Yeh, Kennedy and Kerry (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:02:59 AM EST
    really brought Massachusetts to Obama, huh?  And Oprah, she did so well in bringing older women to Obama.

    Not even an apparition of the Blessed Mother appearing before me to endorse Obama would bring me to him.  He has to do it, and I see nothing that suggests he knows he has to do it, much less how to do it.

    Parent

    Ironic Personal Anecdote- (5.00 / 8) (#23)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:27:01 AM EST
    I have friends who are o supporters, recently moved back to their Memphis hometown after several years living in NYC. They are in their twenties and come from affluent backgrounds.
    They asked me to go look at a home they are thinking of purchasing. The biggest drawback to me was the location- the block is bound by major city intersections and the street is one-way during school hours.

    Anyway, they weren't totally sold on the house, so i suggested they look in my urban rehab area. I live in a wonderful, joyous mixed race and income neighborhood. Walking your dogs and enjoying the unique and colorful scenery here is a joy. It is quiet and a tree and garden lovers paradise.

    The kicker is that my friends were not interested in living here- they were anxious about the racial makeup of my `hood. It is one thing, apparently, to support the idea of post-racism, but another to actually live it.
    Oh, the irony!

    BTW I posted this same comment yesterday on another blog, where I noticed a lot of TLers.

    Political correctness. (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:33:29 AM EST
    How sweet.

    The curtain is going to ripped to pieces before this is over.

    Parent

    Where I live (5.00 / 6) (#66)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:07:43 AM EST
    there are more Obama signs that you can imagine.  We are on the border with Oakland in Berkeley.  Our public schools were one of the first districts, that integrated voluntarily.  Well, all the people with Obama signs, send or sent their kids to private schools.  
    I remember having coffees, and parties to seduce them into coming to the public schools, to no avail.  They were always worried about the "disruptive children" and somehow their child was special in some way and could not be part of a public school.  If they did come to the Public school, they wanted the rules to favor them.  They would demand principles take kids out of 'unbalanced' classes, or if the teacher was an older black teacher.  Twice my kids were in classes were they were either the only or one of two or three white kids cause the principle knew I would not throw a bloody fit.  

    This is the part of the "Obama movement" that make me so sick.  I actually, don't mind AA's voting for him, it's these truly priviliged white people who lived all their lives in a racial bubble, telling me I am racist that makes me stomach turn.  

    Parent

    As I said, get ued to it. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:12:22 AM EST
    The repubs are going to go into overdrive.

    It's going to be a long, hot summer and fall.

    Parent

    It will be a (none / 0) (#120)
    by magisterludi on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:57:05 AM EST
    very long hot summer on multiple levels. It should be interesting to see what happens when gas prices hit 5.00/gal nationwide by the end of the month. That number is the reported "breaking point" for the consumer.

    More drilling for domestic oil is very popular with many Americans now that the problem has languished for decades (thank you GOP and John Dingell dems) and people are feeling desperate (not too strong a word, either).

    Could be a real game-changer.

    Parent

    At least they are honest (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:15:56 AM EST
    and you fell for it, cause who is the MSM gonna show you?  Of course they want to show you them.  How dopey to fall for that.  So, now you have painted all the Clinton supporters as racist.  

    I will take you in my neighborhood, door to door per Obama sign to show you how they all went to private schools.  

    Parent

    and the 19% of Montana voters who said they (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:42:06 PM EST
    didn't vote because of gender.... that's acceptable?

    Parent
    At least they are honest, if wrong.. (none / 0) (#145)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:55:59 PM EST
    the Obama supporters who were mentioned are not honest. They will vote to prove they aren't racists, but they won't live in a mixed race neighborhood. How honest is that? Not very, in my opinion.

    Parent
    Ha. Yes, I live in a majority-minority (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:06:49 AM EST
    city, in an integrated neighborhood.  But all my siblings, who all are for Obama, are white flighters who have fled this city and other cities for lily-white burbs.  I have noted this to them.  They do not appreciate it.  

    It tends to make them stop sending me emails, at least for a while, about how Obama is the new MLK, anyway.  Ugh.

    Parent

    My best friend (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by janarchy on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:19:29 AM EST
    who is a hard core Hillary Hater and Obamatron is the same way. She lives in an affluent Chicago suburb. She grew up dirt poor but her husband's family is filthy rich. She refuses to let her daughter go to public school (even though the local public schools are good and all the kids on the block go there) because she might interact with "poor" people. Said friend constantly complains about the "poor" people on the sports teams that her daughter's school plays against.

    And said friend has never had a friend of any ethnic background other than WASP or Jewish (me) in her entire lifetime. (Unlike me the Clinton supporter who has African American family-by-marriage, has a diversity of friends and boyfriends). But we're the racists...?

    Parent

    It's always a shock when someone (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Anne on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:36:29 AM EST
    does not go along with the dysfunctional crowd's game plan, and I think that what might be going on with the Clinton-haters.

    In a strange way, I think they may be even more angry with her for not sticking around for them to kick around than they were when she was still fighting to prevail.

    She's walking away from the stage, which they wanted, but I think they would prefer that she do so with the kind of childish petulance that we've seen from Obama so they could continue to trash her.  By coming out in support of Obama, though, she is denying them the opportunity to keep their hate alive.  And they're angry about that.

    I fully expect there to be parsing of every word she utters, analysis of her tone and expression and body language - at a microscopic level - so they can seize on anything they can to prove that she doesn't really mean what she says and is secretly plotting an August surprise.  Or a 2012 blindside campaign.

    It will be a commentary on the depth and extent of their sickness.

    I honestly think (5.00 / 6) (#31)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:39:55 AM EST
    that many media morons were convinced that most of American had the same opinions of the Clintons that they did.

    I guess 18,000,000 voters must have come as a shock to them.

    Parent

    So true. (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Marco21 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:50:02 AM EST
    They Gore'd Hillary - another Democratic candidate with the most ovtes who won't be getting the nomination.

    Parent
    I should have said... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Marco21 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:50:48 AM EST
    who didn't, plus the lame typos.

    sorry, just out of bed here.

    Parent

    I think they thought Hillary voters were (none / 0) (#89)
    by laurie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:19:51 AM EST
    either anti-obama democrats
    OR Republicans

    Parent
    I'm sure that (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TheViking on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:46:56 AM EST
    Michelle Obuma will be listening in to check Hillary's "tone".

    Parent
    I had to leave last night (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:53:27 AM EST
    They still refuse to quit attacking Clinton (and her supporters).  One person said Clinton supporters were sore losers, another that Clinton would have to be dragged from the stage with a mic in her hand, another that Obama's time could be better spent than trying to get Clinton voters.

    The extreme anger and yes....  It will be a commentary on the depth and extent of their sickness.

    Parent

    No TV in our house today... (none / 0) (#97)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:24:16 AM EST
    and no more blogging for a while, too.

    Parent
    I will miss you, Shainzona (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:10:26 AM EST
    and I thank you for many moments of joy I have had in reading your thoughts.  But yes, it is a beautiful world awaiting us away from our computers -- after today's event, I am getting out to my garden to pull weeds with a righteous vengeance. :-)

    Parent
    Thought this might be interesting (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by zfran on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:46:09 AM EST
    on a Saturday Morning from the LA Times on KO.The future of news?

    Great article (none / 0) (#63)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:06:47 AM EST
    and it's about time someone (besides BTD) said it.


    Parent
    A sad day. (5.00 / 5) (#37)
    by Marco21 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:06 AM EST
    I am sure Hillary's speech will be full of grace, something her deranged attackers in the creative class and media will never know.

    I hope (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:55:29 AM EST
    everyone else is feeling as special as I am this morning.

    I received an email from my former home away from home, BuzzFlash talking to me about "healing". I was less than polite in telling them to go away and leave me alone. I guess my tolerance for hypocrisy hasn't improved.

    Also got an email from Wes Clark about supporting Obama. I respect Wes Clark too much to be impolite so I just unsubscribed from wespac.

    I may be in the minority here but wouldn't it be smarter to actually give people some time to think about their options and assess what they can or cannot, will or will not do? I feel once again that I am being bullied and I don't like it.

    Yep. (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:59:47 AM EST
    Time is what people need, because no amount of bullying and cajoling is going to get them to suddenly become enamored with Obama.  Just makes it worse.

    The dems won't listen though, as usual.

    Parent

    Wow - I got the same e-mails... (none / 0) (#98)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:25:35 AM EST
    and did the exact same thing.  I was a Clarkie since September 03 and just told him to take a hike.

    Parent
    Hmmm ... (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:11:00 AM EST
    support and elect Democrats and Sen. Obama

    Is that a bit of subtle snark from Chelsea?

    She did not. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Shainzona on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:18:20 AM EST
    Go back to Daily Kos and Trash People Memo, please.

    Have Some Respect (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:30:28 AM EST
    This is not a site where you can spread GOP talking points about Hillary or any Democrat. Obama would be quite dismayed to see his supporters trashing Hillary. Follow his example and show some kindness.

    Parent
    You Are Obviously (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:40:37 AM EST
    A troll, iow, a person who is here only to annoy without adding any content to the discussion.

    Sorry I overestimated you, my bad.

    Parent

    By Keeping Your Mouth Shut (none / 0) (#118)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:47:49 AM EST
    Or politely commenting that it is offensive. Otherwise you are at least as bad as who offends you, and rude to the rest of the regular commenters us who have been for long enough to know what is appropriate and what is not.

    Think of it as your hosts living room.

    Parent

    10 comments per day (none / 0) (#137)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:45:37 AM EST
    New commentors are limited to 10 comments per 24 hours.  

    You are at 20.  Please come back tomorrow.  Thanks.

    Parent

    Actually...... (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by michitucky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:31:52 AM EST
    This website is Pro-Democracy.  BTD has been a tepid Obama supporter and Jeralyn has been a Clinton supporter.  As noted numerous times, Jeralyn will fully support Obama once Clinton suspends and endorses him.

    That does not make this a pro-Obama website......You'll find quickly that this isn't going to become some playground for you......There are rules!!!

    Parent

    there was no ambiguity to (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by sancho on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:27:23 AM EST
    obama's words. perhaps if he were speaking to working class americans, you could make that case. he was sucking up to the rich--something he has done since he went to columbia and something he is really, really good at. somehting all politicians do, i might add. obama is just more celebrated for it than usual. his form of ingratiating himself with america's powerful is viewed as proof of a special talent and one hears the oohs and ahhs every time he gets some rich (white) person to endorse him and give him more money and say he is an honorary kennedy or whatever. what elite america family is hillary allowed to join? actaully, as chelsea shows, she is making her own, not being "granted" exemplary status but earning it, and the establshment hates that the clintons never had to kiss any rings for their power.

    Donna Brazile (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by americanincanada on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:37:22 AM EST
    talking about how Hillary has been a tireless fighter for civil rights is making me seethe. then she goes on and on about women, working class voters, GLBT voters and how Hillary needs to rally her base because Obama can't win without them.

    Where was this thinking during the primary?

    Shhhhh (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by kenoshaMarge on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:58:05 AM EST
    We're not supposed to be smart enough to notice the lack of such concerns in Prima Donna Brazile up to now.

    Now it's all about healing. Why do I feel like I'm in some revival tent with someone standing over me with outspread hands chanting "heal, little Senator Clinton supporter, heal". And why do I feel that it's not working.  

    Parent

    She should have thought of that before (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:01:52 PM EST
    she said the Dems don't need them. Can't have it both ways. And I find it very strange that the person who banged the "Clintons are racist" drum is now lauding Hillary's civil rights work. Did anyone tell Obama about it during the campaign when his campaign was calling her a racist?? These people want our votes and can't even agree on the same story from week to week..how the hell are they going to run the country?

    Parent
    Okay am I being too sensitive.... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:24:25 AM EST
    ...in feeling that Todd Beaton is making Chelsea sound like an airhead?

    English is my secong language. (none / 0) (#12)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:01:56 AM EST
    My mother tong is Italian and I started learning English in my late 20's, so sometimes I don't grasp the minutes differences of how a tern is used.

    I have a question for those of you who have a great command of the English language.
    Are "Endorsement" and "Support" synonyms? These to terms seem to be used interchangeably.  

    I wouldn't discuss (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:12 AM EST
    my definition because Obama supporters will jump on it and they are already going to be watching her speech looking to find offense.  Let me just say that I think endorse is a stronger statement than support, which is going to piss them off enough.

    They really can't move past the primary.

    Parent

    its 'endorse' versus 'concede' that we worry about (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by dotcommodity on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:52:45 AM EST
    if she 'concedes' I think there is no chance the convention can offer any other nominee if there is buyers remorse.

    Parent
    Beyond the dictionary . . . (none / 0) (#20)
    by wurman on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:15:03 AM EST
     . . . "endorsement" & "support" are similar, but not the same.  Endorsement carries with it the sense that there may be some prestige or power with the approval granted by some person of perceived stature.  A pro athlete can "endorse" Nike & it might carry some weight with fans of that person or the sport.  If your or I were to endorse Nike, no one would give a rip.

    Support carries the meaning of donating money, working on a campaign task, doing get out the vote----that is actual, literal "support" in the sense of doing stuff.

    A superdelegate, for example, may offer an endorsement & then just go back to being & doing whatever . . . .  Or a superdelegate may endorse & then donate money from a PAC & then work on a state Democratic Party committee to register voters, etc., & add actual "support" to the original endorsement.

    The terms are not really interchangeable, but on occasion they get mixed together by folks who write or speak imprecisely.

    Parent

    Just a small footnote on "support" (none / 0) (#45)
    by gandy007 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:52:10 AM EST
    Those of us who can, give money and do stuff as a symbol of our support.

    However, I'm sure this was an oversight, but at least as important to me as "doing stuff" is support in the sense of the outpouring of love, affection, and respect that millions have bestowed on Hillary Clinton.

    I'm sure the vast majority here ardently support Clinton every day without ever leaving our homes.

    Parent

    For someone less familiar (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:24:06 AM EST
    with English, you are good enough in it to get that the Clinton campaign announced that she will "express support" -- which is not, in political parlance, interchangeable with "endorse."  We will see what she does, but you are wisely wary of what  media say, as they apparently are not as educated in the English language and its connotations as are you.  See what she and her official campaign announcements say.

    And more significant may be whether she concedes or suspends her campaign.  As I read her campaign announcements, she will not concede but will only suspend, which means she holds on to her pledged delegates -- and Obama may need them or certainly will want them to at least look like the popular choice of the party.  Plus it gives her lots of leverage for her voters to be, as she said, respected and all too visible. :-)

    I hope this parsing helps you -- but trust your instincts, too, as your question suggests that you  are smarter than many in the media.  Viva Italia!

    Parent

    Endorsement and support are similar (none / 0) (#146)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:06:53 PM EST
    but differ in the details. Support is when a person votes for, sends money to and/or works on the campaign in some capacity as a volunteer for a candidate. Endorsement means that the person supports the candidate and that they are urging others to do so as well. So, support is what the endorser is already doing and asking others to do as well. See?? Heh.

    Parent
    Thank you to all fivre of yo9u who responded (none / 0) (#148)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:22:28 PM EST
    I like the "coinciding" clarification best.
    Heh, she did not coincide.
    Using Maya words: "Phenomenal Woman" she is.

    Parent
    Thank you to all who responded (none / 0) (#149)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:23:21 PM EST
    I like the "coinciding" clarification best.
    Heh, she did not coincide.
    Using Maya words: "Phenomenal Woman" she is.

    Parent
    yesterday's houston chronicle (none / 0) (#19)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:14:48 AM EST
    www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5821897.html

    June 5, 2008, 11:06PM
    Texas Democrats convene, try to heal caucus wounds
    Convention to open today at Austin center


    Interesting to see how the Chron stories reflect (none / 0) (#30)
    by songster on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:39:45 AM EST
    and don't reflect what gets said here.

    Yesterday: some he-said/she-said about dirty tactics but no reporting at all, just swept under the rug. Did at least mention that Clinton won the primary, Obama won the caucuses.  Storyline pretty much "we'll get over it."

    Today: "Unhealed wounds" is the headline.  Hispanic and rural vote for Clinton, urban black vote for Obama (really, only by "more than 60%"?  I was surprised not to see 80 or 90%).  Die-hard Clinton supporters wanting or not wanting her on ticket, on Supreme Court, etc.  Obama supporters not wanting her, she represents the past.  Anger of Clinton supporters "doesn't make any sense."  They need to "let go."  "50s mindset" as code words (I assume) for racism.  Black Clinton delegate vows to vote McCain or write her in.

    That answers some of my questions about whether what we write here goes beyond the blogosphere.  Of course, these are all party activists.


    Parent

    Of course, some of us are now (none / 0) (#130)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:25:14 AM EST
    former party activists. :-)

    Parent
    you have to understan that the Chronicle is (none / 0) (#142)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:29:34 PM EST
    an ardent Obama supporter and endorsed him. They even ran an editorial telling it's readers to press the delete button when they received anti-obama e-mails:

    Paper: Houston Chronicle
    Date: Fri 02/29/2008
    Section: B
    Page: 8
    Edition: 3 STAR

    Hit delete / E-mail lies about Obama are a breeding ground for uncritical thinking.

     MAYBE you've gotten one. Perhaps you know someone who was recently infected. Possibly, you've hit "forward" and transmitted one yourself.

    more....

    Parent

    I still don't hear the big "C" word (none / 0) (#28)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:37:47 AM EST
    Concede.  If she hasn't already done it, I hope Hillary uses her huge political capital to negotiate something from the party.  Not from Obama, but from the rest of the party.  And I don't mean Supreme Court Justice (a snooze for her) or cabinet post (too risky to give up her Senate seat for).  That's why I see something like Senate Majority Leader as such an attractive position for a trailblazer like Hillary.  Obama wouldn't look like he's been strong-armed into "giving" her something (read "emasculation" which would reduce our chances next fall).  But negotiating SML with the party that just chose one candidate over the other in a close race would be an amazing feat.  They'd have to fire "give `em hell Harry" who hasn't given much hell at all, and some 50 other senior senators would be bypassed, accepting and validating her political clout.  The bonus would be that she'd be in a very powerful position to work for the issues we all care about, more so that if she had gotten VP.  

    What better way to affirm what she has done this year.  


    I thought she might keep her delegates and (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Teresa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:48:29 AM EST
    go through the nomination at the convention just for the historical nature of it and to show us the "respect" she mentioned.

    According to the article BTD linked below about sexism/Dean's comments, he is discouraging this because of party unity. It would make me feel like I'm still in the party if they allowed this to happen. I don't remember the 1980 convention very well but wasn't Kennedy nominated? Maybe not, but I thought so.

    Parent

    Teresa (5.00 / 7) (#47)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:52:58 AM EST
    They did not inflict a clean blow.  They got  a half kill, and all they want now is the humiliation.  This is why these people are dangerous.  It's not new politics.  It's the same.  They want to destroy at any cost to satisfy their emasculation from the Bush years.  The press, the blogs and the DND elite.  

    Parent
    Ready Set Go (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by Athena on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:55:11 AM EST
    That's it - they need Hillary to be publicly shamed= and they'll preside over the ceremony.

    This is deep psycho-theater here, folks.

    Parent

    Party unity?!!!! (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:56:43 AM EST
    Howard, you can't have something that's not there andwon't be there, he way things stand now.  And it's certainly not Hillary who has caused the rift.

    Parent
    You really are tiresome. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:27:14 AM EST
    Please go to your other blogs that feed your mind this way and come back another day.

    Parent
    If I were Howard Dean, (none / 0) (#125)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:03:03 AM EST
    I would have any candidate who has acquired some delegates' name put into nomination and seconded.  On the first ballot I would have all of the delegates holding big signs for their nominee jumping up and down and doing what delegates do.  Call the roll, each state votes for whatever its state's makeup is, and have the SDs abstain. Having no one reach the majority of delegates, I would have a second roll called immediately.  On the count of 3, all delegates flip their signs and the TV audience sees an ocean of Obama signs. The roll is called, all delegates vote for Obama.  Somewhere along the way just before the magic number is reached, the next state cedes its position to a state that needs to feel special (hint, hint) and Obama is nominated.  There is drama, at least a showing of Unity, and Obama is legitimized because no SDs were needed to nominate him. Hillary's supporters get to see her name up there and that might sway a few of her voters. Of course, this would require some hope that Hillary's supporters and SDs would do this, and faith that they wouldn't use the "nuclear option" at the last second and get her nominated. But Howard isn't likely to change his tactics of needing to Hillary out of the way completely.

    Parent
    Fight, Hope, Change ... (none / 0) (#150)
    by feet on earth on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    Sounds like the talks of the missionaries in the early days of the colonies.

    Fight, in us and our religion
    Hope, not in this life, or on this earth, but next life in nirvana
    Change, we take your land now

    Parent

    Could you stop (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:49:52 AM EST
    with what "you" see Hillary as.  We don't care. It does not help.  We wanted and want her to be President.  We want Obama to finish his Junior Senator job, at least finish something in his life.  How does that sound?  

    "Strong armed" it's called coalition building, something he said he would do as a uniter.  Uniters get make concessions, you his supporters have taken this Bush stance.  No concessions, no cooperation, win at all cost, even if winning means losing.  It's insane.  

    If any other Obama supporter tells me what job will be good for Clinton as god is my witness I will send you a projectile, vomit that is.  

    If she wanted  to be a judge she would have been working for that, she wants to be President and we want her to be President, capice?   OYYYYYYYYYYY

    Parent

    Stella, I'm a million miles from Bush (none / 0) (#62)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:00:50 AM EST
    Not to belabor the point, but she's not going to be President, at least this year.  And I'm hoping we don't have to wait until August to realize that.

    Hillary said in her speech that she really wants is to continue to work for us, to stand up for the issues we care about.  This isn't what I "see Hillary as," it's what I hope she gets out of this, and what we as a country get out of this.  In fact, whatever has been negotiated is already a done deal.  All that's left is the announcement.  

    Here's to hoping she's managed something as incredible as Senate Majority Leader, a platform she can utilize to work on issues we all care about.


    Parent

    You cannot help yourself (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:10:16 AM EST
    I did not say she was going to be President this year.  Let her decide what she wants.  I said that is the job she wants.  You think this hit squad of the Senate boyz will let her be the whip?  They want one of their guys, they are afraid of her.  

    You made your choice, an inept Congress and a rookie President.  Go for it eat your heart out.  

    Parent

    You and your movement are not (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:11:42 AM EST
    a million miles from Bush.  You have the same methods and the same attitudes.  You want to win just to win. Obama won with the same Bush tactics.  Axelrod is Rove.  All they wanted was to win.  

    Parent
    We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one (none / 0) (#91)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:20:13 AM EST
    "My" movement.  Whew.  

    I'll own everything I've done to help Obama get elected, and I'll continue to criticize sexism and ageism when I see it (Yeah, even when it's against McSame, not because I like him, but because we're all obviously better off without the "-isms" that permeate our culture.)

    Parent

    This is my conclusion (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:26:54 AM EST
    as well, this will only be resolved with outcomes.  At this point, we are all entrenched in how we see what happened.  I have a core problem with the "movement".  I completely distrust it.  Maybe it's not you.  

    But please, stop with telling us what job you think Hillary should have.  She is a Senator.  She wanted to be President.  Now, maybe she wants to be VP.  That's it.  If she does not become the VP I cannot support Obama for a million reasons, the core one being how he did not serve his constituents in Chicago, when Rezko ran their buildings to the ground, how he claims he did not know.  To me that is a violation of all the values I hold dear.  I don't believe anything about him, cause his "community work" is questionable.  No community organizer or someone with community organizing history, would fail to see what Rezko did to the community and continue taking money from him and fraternizing.  The man has no values.  He is a construct that is being hoisted.  (in a paragraph).  I want Hillary as VP cause I want his movement controlled.  I don't want a man who will do anything with so much power.  Also someone with so little experience.  It's simple.  He scares me.  

    Parent

    OK, I see your point now (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:38:39 AM EST
    Stella, I have a feeling we have more in common than what divides us. Thanks for sticking with the argument.  

    newt

    Parent

    Oh, surely you jest?? (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:21:11 PM EST
    the core one being how he did not serve his constituents in Chicago, when Rezko ran their buildings to the ground, how he claims he did not know.
    When those constituents sued Rezko to get the repairs done and the heat working, Obama was on the damn defense team!!! No effing way he didn't know!!! Unless a "minor player", as he was described by his law firm at the time, doesn't bother to find out the particulars of the case they are working on. Didn't know?? Total lie. Complete and total lie. He not only knew, he defended Rezko in the law suit,  he defended Rezko in the law suit. Just had to say that twice. For emphasis.

    Parent
    Clinton can't concede (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:59:00 AM EST
    They will just have to get over that one.  Two reasons:  First: If she concedes, it is a regulation issue that puts in to place the procedures under which she is allowed to fundraise, transfer and retire her campaign.  

    Second: whether Obama people like it or not, her campaign was also historical.  Clinton should take the people who supported her to the convention so they have the opportunity to vote for her.

    So my response to Obama supporters is becoming a refrain.... GET OVER IT.

    Parent

    You'd think we were promoting President Sanjaya (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ellie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:11:21 AM EST
    Sheesh. TeamObie's Hope Ya Got Change movement really must see taking down Obama's Mean Obstacle Lady as the be all and end all.

    Baby-Sis calls BO Change-aya and I expected her to be in the thick of the mosh pit.

    Meh. Apart from the personal anarchy, I can barely keep up what she's into week after week. I suspect world domination's her endgame though so it wouldn't suprise me to see her on CSpan one of these days canoodling with the Repugs.
     

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#32)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:41:22 AM EST
    That "C" word.

    I thought Team Obama was more fixated on Clinton and a different "C" word.

    Parent

    No, I think that was your buddy McCain (none / 0) (#44)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:51:16 AM EST
    that used the other C word.

    Much as I share the justified anger about the amount of sexism we've experienced in this primary, it's painful to me to see it all dumped on Obama and his supporters.  Clearly the millions of women who voted for him did not base their decision on sexist comments from the media and blogs.  Some of us have actively rebuked those statements, images and innuendo.  This kind of misdirection doesn't help us.  

    As always, we need to call people on their -isms, and I personally think it's more effective to be specific in our criticisms so we can effect positive change.

    Parent

    actually (none / 0) (#94)
    by Edgar08 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:20:43 AM EST
    it was the two obama supporters I over heard at work yesterday but no matter whats done is done.

    Parent
    McCain, a really great man (none / 0) (#69)
    by Newt on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:10:18 AM EST
    Heh, I don't want nothing of McCain (none / 0) (#76)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:13:31 AM EST
    we ended up with mediocre men as our choices.  It's that simple.  

    Parent
    and Obama is "articulate" (none / 0) (#84)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:17:37 AM EST
     well only with a teloprompter, does that mean he should be president?

    Parent
    We don't have to vote for anybody (none / 0) (#151)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:48:51 PM EST
    we can leave the Presidential vote blank on the ballot, or do a write-in. Just because we won't vote for Obama doesn't mean we will vote for McCain. I plan to write in Hillary, even if it won't count. I will not vote for Obama, nor will I vote Republican. The world is not an either/or place, there are more than two choices in any given situation if you look for them.

    Parent
    Sure, vote Green (none / 0) (#154)
    by splashy on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:27:37 PM EST
    At the top of the ticket, and Dem downticket. That is what I am thinking about doing, if Clinton isn't anywhere to be found.

    Where I live there is no write-ins allowed, so that option is out.

    Parent

    Please stop with SML (none / 0) (#99)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:25:46 AM EST
    She can not be sML.  First, Reid is not going anywhere.  Second, she does not have seniority. There are probably 20 people in front of her. It is not going to happen.

    Parent
    What Chelsea said (none / 0) (#49)
    by andgarden on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:54:37 AM EST


    President Obama (none / 0) (#56)
    by bob h on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:59:02 AM EST
    (and I do hope he wins with Hillary's full support) is likely to face $6 gasoline, an economy going pear-shaped, war over the Iranian nuclear program, and an inability to bring Iraq to endgame.  Pray that it does not come to this, but chances are that the challenges created by Bush's ineptitude are so great that he might be weak in 2012.

    Odds are that Hillary could then challenge him.  She could wait until 2016 for another try, but will be a bit Golda Mier-ish by then.

    Now Goldie Mabowecz Meir (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:34:34 AM EST
    goes under the bus? :-) Actually, a good example -- she came into her greatest years of her lifelong greatness in her 70s.  And she also began that lifelong career for others when in college.  (As it happens, I have studied her life.)

    Other countries can be so much wiser than we.

    Parent

    not in our youth culture - it will never happen! (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by suzieg on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:36:12 PM EST
    You are funny...really.. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by FlaDemFem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:54:47 PM EST
    the challenges created by Bush's ineptitude are so great that he might be weak in 2012.
    What about Obama's ineptitude in dealing with them?? He doesn't deal well with problems from what I have seen. And this country has some major problems, oratory and photo ops won't do the job. By 2012, if he wins, I expect Obama to be either impeached and gone, or with Bush-level approval ratings. Hillary can come in and clean up the mess. She is good at work, hard work. Really good.

    Parent
    Or his campaign could be (none / 0) (#65)
    by pie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:07:32 AM EST
    mortally wounded by the slings and arrows of republican ads and talking points.

    Much more likely, I think.

    Straight Talk Express (none / 0) (#82)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:16:52 AM EST
    Derailed. Robert Greenwald shows us what we are up against.

    YouTube

    I watched McCain (none / 0) (#88)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:19:40 AM EST
    if Obama cannot beat him on his own, then what is the point.  I don't want to hear nothing.  Dems could have never had a weaker competitor.  

    Parent
    Obama Will Pick (none / 0) (#112)
    by squeaky on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:37:55 AM EST
    The person who gives us the best chance to beat the GOP, and the  best person to be running the country at his side and in his stead.

    Seems to me that Hillary is that person. It's a veritable no brainer if there ever was one.

    Parent

    Do you have any idea (none / 0) (#105)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:30:31 AM EST
    how childish your comment is? You sound like my neice and nephew (5&7) when they get called on something.
    What does what anyone else said have to do with the lie you just told?
    Truly pathetic.

    Hi there, Bob (none / 0) (#155)
    by suki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:45:13 PM EST
    You really should work on disguising your style.

    Parent
    There goes the planet. (none / 0) (#117)
    by samanthasmom on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:47:04 AM EST
    Youth survey (none / 0) (#121)
    by laurie on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:57:12 AM EST
    Hi, I found this  interesting opinion poll made between March and May 2008 of young people, of whom roughly 50 per cent were myspace or facebook users. (Myspace being so often cited as being used to GOTV by Axelrod)

    Since it seems that one of the reasons given for edging Hillary out of the race was the long term gain to the Party of an enthusiastic youth, I found its findings quite interesting.

     "In early 2008 Democratic primaries, young people increased their participation by an astonishing 88 percent.  This survey reinforces much of the polling and real life data predicting record turn out among young people, as 72 percent of young people describe themselves as likely to vote in the 2008 election."....

      "We see some evidence of identity politics, which is just as strong among white women as among African American voters and stronger among Clinton supporters than Obama supporters. But the leading reason, for Clinton and Obama supporters, men and women, white and young people of color, is the opportunity this election represents to change the direction of the country."

    Looking closer at the data it finds that 26 per cent considered the election to be important, because it was the first time a woman could be elected as President; 17 per cent because an A-A had that chance; and 41 per cent because it was an opportunity for change. This last (change direction) argument had a consensus of 49per cent  between both white women (49) and Obama supporters(49).

    This survey I feel underlines the depth of feeling in this race. Feelings that were crassly misjudged by the DNC.

    http://www.democracycorps.com/strategy/2008/05/myspace-election/?section=Analysis

    http://www.democracycorps.com/strategy/2008/06/the-obama-gap/?section=Analysis

    Two books out on C-span (none / 0) (#138)
    by waldenpond on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:01:18 PM EST
    Rob Wallace "Buying In" about how image is ties in to things like buying limited edition sneakers and 'buying face' (buying an image) and Mark Bauerlein "The Dumbest Generation" how youth spend so much time plugged in, there experience is very narrow and tunnel visioned.  The focus on 'teen stuff'

    The question period was funny.  The young and educated are dumb, is it dumb to support Obama?  The author, chagrined, said yes there is that element.  They are working on there 'identity formation' and they decide on 'other than issues' discussion of 'aura' and 'elitism'  How $40 million were dumped in to MTV (ha!) etc to get the youth demographic.  

    I can't wait to get the books.

    Parent

    Hi, Waldenpond (none / 0) (#156)
    by laurie on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:47:25 AM EST
    I've always enjoyed your posts.
    I'm new to blogging-I only started 2-3 weeks ago when sexism disgusted me...

    I don't think teens are all that empty headed. I have a 19year old son who considers mtv to be fluff. He prefers to be creative.

    I find most young people desire CHANGE.
    We do too-the difference between us and them is that we think Hillary (with Bill) in the WH will do their hardest to get something done-while Barack and Michelle will be but straws in the wind.

    Parent

    Your lies here are legion. (none / 0) (#134)
    by Cream City on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:30:27 AM EST
    Pot calls out kettle.  Stop it.