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Obama Speech Weds. on National Public Service

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:28:17 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Sen. Barack Obama is returning to Colorado tomorrow to give a speech on national service in Colorado Springs.

The morning event, at the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs campus in northern Colorado Springs, is by invitation only. The audience will include active military personnel, as well as what campaign spokesman Matt Chandler described as those serving in the nation’s other essential services — the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps and ROTC.

Obama's visit reportedly also will include a $1,000-a-head fundraiser and possibly a visit to one of the region’s five military bases — though any details of additional planned events have not been released to the media.

It is not expected that Obama will meet with James Dobson while here.

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    Obama Speech Weds. on National Public Service | 81 comments (81 topical)

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    I never quite understood... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Alec82 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:34:47 PM EST
    ...why Obama was even interested in meeting with the FRC crowd.  They lack all credibility and their stars have fallen.  Santorum's appeal to this set hurt him in a big way.  

     Now that they've passed stridently anti-gay marriage amendments in most states where they're feasible, and after losing the abortion referendum in SD in '06, what's their remaining appeal? Their attempt to politicize the HPV vaccine and their chest pounding on Schiavo freaked middle America out.  

    Colorado Springs (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by MKS on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:42:39 PM EST
    It is like McCain giving a speech to the NAACP....

    Obama, though could pick up more than a few votes in Colorado Springs....and he is ahead in Colorado right now....It is a very young state, which helps....

    Parent

    A few points (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by anydemwilldo on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:49:35 PM EST
    First off, Colorodo Springs is in the Denver media market, where Obama is doing (relative to previous democratic candidates) extraordinarily well, so you can still look at the media exposure as a play to the base.

    Second, it's still early in the summer.  This is the appropriate time for expanding your reach, not reaching your base.

    And finally: what would be wrong with a McCain speech to the NAACP on issues relevant to that demographic?  I'd love to see such a thing.

    Parent

    McCain did attend a Dr. King ceremony (none / 0) (#10)
    by Josey on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:56:17 PM EST
    Maybe the 40th anniversary of his death?
    iirc - he was the only Repub candidate there. Or maybe the ceremony was after he'd become the presumptive nominee.

    Parent
    As I recall (none / 0) (#12)
    by indy in sc on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:03:34 PM EST
    he was roundly booed by the audience because of his vote against a King holiday in Arizona.

    Parent
    but he went in there knowing he (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by english teacher on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:15:38 PM EST
    would get that reception and took it.  said he made a mistake and was sorry, iirc.

    Parent
    I watched and saw McCain appreciated (none / 0) (#18)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:14:26 PM EST
    for his actually, really heartfelt apology for his opposition to an MLK day.  I did not see booing -- but maybe it was edited out of what I saw?

    Parent
    There was definitely booing (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:18:28 PM EST
    I give the guy credit for at least trying to explain himself to people's faces but, well, I'm sure you'll agree that votes count for more than speeches.  Hard to talk his way out of that particular vote.

    Parent
    Probably edited. (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by indy in sc on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:20:43 PM EST
    The boos were unmistakeable and loud and prolonged.  He did earn a little respect from me for going to the Lorraine Motel to give his speech knowing that he would likely face a hostile crowd given his previous vote.  

    Parent
    No criticism... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Alec82 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:34:24 PM EST
    ...of campaigning in Colorado Springs.  But if I recall correctly they were toying with the idea of a meeting with Dobson.  That's pointless.  Reaching out to evangelicals is one thing; those parasites of the FRC set are out for money and power, and their tactics are horrible.  They saw a gravy train with the Republican Party, which they treated as their own apparatus for the last three decades.  

     They've been rewarded with a candidate they agree with 90% of the time but, for some unknown reason, they can't stand.  I see very little reason for outreach to those losers.

    Parent

    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:37:32 PM EST
    if they were actually considering meeting with Dobson or if it was just idle speculation on someone's part, but IMO the goal of meeting with Dobson would not be to actually try and win Dobson's support.  It would be to demonstrate strength and confidence, to show that here's a guy who isn't afraid to go onto enemy turf and defend his positions.

    In terms of actual outreach to evangelical voters, I agree with you that treating people like Dobson as the gatekeepers is not going to get anywhere.  The leaders of the Religious Right are political operatives, they are no more interested in making common cause with Obama than Karl Rove is.

    Parent

    Christian Rock events this summer (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:20:14 PM EST
    heard via CNN along with more "discussions" re:outreach to evangelical voters.

    Parent
    How does that compare (none / 0) (#42)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:45:50 PM EST
    to a candidate we 'love' but disagree with 90% of the time?

    Parent
    huh? (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Alec82 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:02:04 PM EST
    I'm not aware of any front-runner Democrat, or even a Democratic candidate I've ever voted for, that I've disagreed with 90% of the time.  

     Usually, when I disagree with a candidate, it is an area where I find wiggle room acceptable.  For example, I disagree with Senator Clinton's position on driver's licenses for undocumented workers, but I think reasonable minds can differ.  Versus FISA, where there is one correct position and Obama has adopted the incorrect position, or the decision to authorize the president to go to war in Iraq.  I have very strong opinions on what I consider fundamental issues, and I'm pretty slack about everything else.

     Let me put it this way: I would understand the right wing going off the rails if McCain was insufficiently conservative, but given his voting record, it is hard to see how anyone could label him a "maverick."  They're withholding their support because he won't kiss up to them.  And when he tries it he fails because they think he's insincere....despite voting in lockstep 90% of the time.  I'm glad they're suffering, but they're the political equivalent of a screaming child.

    Parent

    I was referring to (none / 0) (#94)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 07:39:04 AM EST
    the end of the love affair with Obama, a candidate who many fell in love with, and who now has voiced several opinions that I believe are anathema to our party. He was the darling of my progressive friends who are in various stages of grief now because he is proving to be no progressive himself.

    Parent
    One clarification... (none / 0) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:03:43 PM EST
    ...Denver and CS are not in the same media market.  According to Nielson, Denver is the #18 in the country while CS/Pueblo market is #93.  

    They have their own network affliates and print outlets.


    Parent

    Hrm... (none / 0) (#83)
    by anydemwilldo on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:04:19 PM EST
    Maybe I'm mistaken, or it's something of a hybrid.  I stayed in a hotel in Colorado Springs just once, and could swear that they were showing Denver stations.

    Parent
    Good point, Alec. Terry Schiavo (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:54:21 PM EST
    was the first thing that came to my mind on hearing of this -- with all those horrific images of her debasement by the Repubs who denied her a dignified death.  (As a friend put it, let's go put clauses in our living wills immediately that state that, in the event we end up on tubes at our ends, we are not to have our blouses pulled up and our b**bs exposed on national tv for the ego-building of utter fools.  And no matter their party, she added.)



    Parent
    Jeralyn, great snark there at the end. (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:46:47 PM EST
    Perhaps when Obama gets around to talking about the U.S. Constitution, Dobson could sit on stage w/him.

    They could meet. . . (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:49:40 PM EST
    It is not expected that Obama will meet with James Dobson while here.

    Over coffee and, uh, fruitcake.

    Cannibalism isn't part of the Republican agenda. (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by andgarden on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:51:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Ted Haggard isn't expected to be there (none / 0) (#82)
    by ChuckieTomato on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:51:01 PM EST
    so instead make it just coffee

    Parent
    Sorry but I have to say it: (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Jim J on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:52:13 PM EST
    What's with this dude and speeches? It's like his only way to communicate.

    Obama does best in one-way communication (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Josey on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:59:48 PM EST
    Speechifying - great way to unite the country?

    Parent
    The teleprompter is his crutch. (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by FemB4dem on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:04:53 PM EST
    Uh, um, well you know, Obama has so far shown a stunning inability to communicate effectively except through speeches already scripted for him.  

    Parent
    Hmmmmm..... (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by Veracitor on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:09:41 PM EST
    That must be why he won the nomination and a landslide is shaping up for November.  

    Parent
    The speeches are certainly not why (5.00 / 6) (#20)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:16:29 PM EST
    he was given the nomination -- well, to be correct, the necessary number of votes for it.

    But you know how he really got the needed number.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#100)
    by Veracitor on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 12:47:09 PM EST
    He got more delegates, more states, more votes, more money, and he had a superior campaign organization.

    And he inspired more people via his excellent speeches.

    Parent

    However, it could also be compared to (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM EST
    the "Hoarse Whisperer."

    Parent
    Speeches to by invitation only audiences (5.00 / 6) (#28)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:24:27 PM EST
    Definitely a controlled environment.

    Parent
    Wow, Are They How They're Set Up? (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:14:10 PM EST
    Ridiculous!

    Do the invitations say that they should be generous with the applause, hooting and hollering and cheering of his name?

    He gets worse by the day, and I thought it was a weekly regression. I thought wrong.

    Parent

    No way Clinton would be holding (5.00 / 0) (#77)
    by sallywally on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:21:25 PM EST
    closed meetings.

    Parent
    I'm pining for the (5.00 / 3) (#95)
    by mg7505 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 09:04:40 AM EST
    Lincoln-Douglas debates (not that I was alive at the time). That sure would beat the Barack Obama Lecture Tour. How about some town halls? You know, some of that grassroots democracy that BO talks up?

    But of course no one has done more for democracy than Barack Obama...

    Parent

    He's copying W. (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by MarkL on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:29:52 PM EST


    Parent
    The Speech-A-Day Campaign (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:32:07 PM EST
    coming to a daily calendar near you!

    Parent
    Thanks For Sayin' It (5.00 / 5) (#55)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:05:25 PM EST
    I know someone out there in the milky way known as the MSM is just itching to say the same thing.

    I cannot wait for this to become talking point.

    These "big" topical speeches are becoming ridiculous; the guy is running for President. A President works for the people. It should be a two-way conversation. Not a one-way monologue.

    Parent

    I think it is great (none / 0) (#89)
    by tben on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 12:53:45 AM EST
    A collection of very well thought out expositions on major topics, that serve to redefine the basic memes around the issues. This is an outstanding example of the power that a president has - one that greatly transcends the specific bills, or exec orders or policies that he enacts. To set the rhetorical and intellectual agenda of the political world for the next decade at least.

    Obama is a master of this - more speeches, please!

    Parent

    That would be excellent (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by mg7505 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 09:12:44 AM EST
    if his actions backed up his words. I saw a big contradiction in Obama's soaring speech about patriotism and his lack of opposition to wiretapping -- he can tell, but not show, us how to serve our country.

    A President has power to redefine the debate on issues, but we've learned from Bush that concrete executive actions in governance are far more potent (wiretapping etc). Obama can speechify until the cows come home, but he must show that he will use the REAL powers of the Presidency responsibly.

    Also, it would be nice if these "well thought out expositions" actually offered something new.

    Parent

    Yes - we better get used to it (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by bridget on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:37:02 PM EST
    Speechifying is the NEW Acting!


    Parent
    I sure hope this won't pre-empt (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:40:37 PM EST
    regular TV broadcasting...

    Parent
    there's no way (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 12:55:22 AM EST
    not with the ratings it would get.

    Ok, maybe on the CW.

    Parent

    CW does pretty well (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Grace on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 01:25:30 AM EST
    when they have "Beauty and the Geek" on...  

    God forbid they start pre-empting the Nightly News for another Obama speech.  We'll never hear the news and we'll be hearing Obama every night.  We'll be putting cotton balls and duct tape over our ears screaming "Make it stop!  Make it stop!"  

    Which all brings us back to -- McCain and his POW torture!!!  (Isn't it convenient how many things can relate to torture and McCain's POW experience?)  ;-)

    Parent

    Maybe a Tony Hillerman novel title? (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:44:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Has he ever clarified tuition vs time owed? (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:52:40 PM EST
    I heard him mention the national service in exchange for tuition again recently. At a community college, the implication was you could end up covering your tuition this way. But it makes me wonder about how many hours a person would "owe" and how could they do this if they need to make a living upon graduation. It just seems to me, that many participating in the exchange would fall into the group that needs to support themselves ASAP after they graduate.

    I'll vote for him, but I can't listen to him: (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by WillBFair on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:21:25 PM EST
    all the big words concealing lack of content. It's brutal. He calls a carreer military man 'inartful'? Please. Or maybe the Marines have gone Bohemian and no one told me.
    How I'll miss the Clinton's clear and elegant style.
    http://a-civilife.blogspot.com
         

    Another speech? ~yawn~ (5.00 / 7) (#30)
    by stefystef on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:30:31 PM EST
    I think Obama is trying to recapture some kind of mystique he had early on in the campaign.

    It's too late for that.

    The National Public Service thing is very JFK-ish.  Watch for all the comparisons to JFK, the Peace Corp., and other social programs already in existence but even the shiny new "Obama treatment".

    I'm already tired of hearing this man.

    Actually it's very Clintonish... (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Dawn Davenport on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:05:15 PM EST
    ...because it pretty much is v.3 or so of Americorps, started under Bill Clinton.

    Of course, you'll never hear comparisons, nor why it's necessary to recreate the wheel, rather than restoring the funds to Americorps that Bush has decimated since taking office.

    It's a good idea, but hardly new.

    Parent

    Yeh, I talked with students on my campus (5.00 / 5) (#69)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:50:43 PM EST
    in the primary, all excited by hearing Obama speak about his brave bold daring new plan blah blah, and the students said they could hardly wait to sign up to get $4000 toward tuition for public service.

    So I said, well, the campus Americorps office is right over there, down the hall, the door you just passed.  And I said that it already pays that.

    The students did not look the least abashed.  They went on saying Obama was teh awesum and walked to the Starbucks.  It is, as you can guess, in the other direction from the Americorps office door.

    (Note:  It is a fine program that has served many of my students well while they serve.  Thank you, again, Bill Clinton.)

    Parent

    Students on the campus near me (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by mg7505 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 09:16:27 AM EST
    are the exact same! They haven't even stopped bashing Hillary yet. Can you guess what campus that is? It starts with H and ends with arvard.

    Parent
    I see a cross-country train trip in the works. (none / 0) (#43)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:46:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Ask not what your country can do for you .... (none / 0) (#68)
    by bridget on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:46:08 PM EST
    this is from the JFK Public Service speech but it was pastor Wright who ruined that one for me. At least for now. Obama better not borrow that one, too.

    Parent
    You first. n/t (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:31:16 PM EST


    We are not blind (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Coldblue on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:33:59 PM EST
    When will you take off whatever dark glasses you're wearing and see the light?

    Is the faith-based public service... (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by santarita on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 11:17:25 PM EST
    initiative going to address the high price of gas?  Or the flagging economy?  Or global warming?  Or even health care reform?  I am concerned about Obama's priorities at this point.

    If we got the candidate that the (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by hairspray on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 12:05:18 AM EST
    progressives thought they were getting, maybe moving on would work.  Now, however, the empty suit, no core plan and the crummy way he won are starting to wear thin.  

    Ben, since the convention hasn't met yet (3.66 / 3) (#67)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    I was sticking to the facts, trying to not invite a nonsense post from the likes of you -- as no matter what I do, you're stalking me to pick your nits.

    Now, did I not say he has the number of delegates needed?  Then why all your bandwidth-eating data again?  As for the verb I chose that has you going ballistic, he was given delegates' votes.  By the states.  That's how it's done.  You seem to confused voters at the polls with delegates at a convention.

    Really, Ben.  Calm down.  You're going to have some real ups and downs for many months to come, in a campaign season like this with a candidate who barely eked out a win and has a long way to go.

    Oh, and go away.  You're so uninformed.  And boring.

    No Cream (none / 0) (#71)
    by tben on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:54:00 PM EST
    you dont get to make the world the way you want it. You cant make people disappear, or build a little coccoon where you are never challanged or questioned. At least not on a public website. Thats what you have your own four walls for.

    As to the issue at hand - your original comment. Of course you said he had the delegates needed. Thats not the issue. You wrote "But you know how he really got the needed number."

    Well, yes, I know how he did. But somehow I suspect that you were referring to something else.
    Hey, maybe I am wrong! Did you mean that he got the needed number by running a smarter campaign than anyone else, and making a successful appeal to the voters, sufficient to win fair and square? If so, then please accept my apologies for misunderstanding you.

    But if that is not what you meant, then maybe you could explain what you did mean - so that we can see if my original reaction was justified or not.

    Parent

    Stellaaa (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:48:50 PM EST


    Parent
    You admit you're seeing things (none / 0) (#79)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:32:58 PM EST
    My.  You really do need to calm down.

    Parent
    Obama's public service policy..... (3.50 / 2) (#14)
    by Veracitor on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:08:28 PM EST
    ....is one of my favorites.  It's inspiring as well as practical, and it's a good point of differentiation.

    The man is a genius!  

    I like it to (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:01:23 PM EST
    I think it would help this nation if people out of college did a few years of service, sorta like serving in the military (but not the military).  It would give Americans a shared positive experience.   The only problem with his plan as I understand it, is only poor kids have to do it to get loans

    Parent
    Sam, do you have any details (none / 0) (#52)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:02:22 PM EST
    or a link?

    Parent
    Here, he also talked about it in the debates (none / 0) (#78)
    by samtaylor2 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:28:25 PM EST
    The College Cost Reduction and Access Act Provides Incentives for Students to Pursue Public Service Employment. The measure provides loan forgiveness if a student borrower spends at least ten years in a public service profession, including military service. In addition, the measure creates incentives for students to pursue careers as teachers by establishing TEACH grants. The grants would provide $4,000 per year for undergraduate students who commit to teaching in high-need school districts. [HR 2669, 2007; A New Commitment to Students and Families: Report by the U.S. Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, & Pensions, September 2007]

    Parent
    I agree (3.50 / 2) (#31)
    by tben on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:30:57 PM EST
    I cant recall a politician who had a better ability to frame issues in complex contexts that manage to speak to the concerns of a very wide diversity of listeners. Reagan and Bill Clinton both had this ability at a masterful level, and Obama is easily their match.

    Reagan did it, of course, in the service of a hard-right agenda. Clinton was selling a Republican-lite DLC agenda. Its such a thrill to see real progressive ideas put into intellectual settings that are accessable to the left, but also to the vast middle.

    I'm still thinking that this guy has all the tools necessary to win a 60%+, 350+EV blowout in his reelection in 2012. That is what will nail down our times as great progressive era.

    Parent

    Why does the headline (none / 0) (#4)
    by Coldblue on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 07:47:13 PM EST
    in the linked article say 'New Era of Service'?

    Is he planning something new? Just wondering.

    Talk is cheap. It's an old syaing. n/t (none / 0) (#26)
    by mrjerbub on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:22:47 PM EST


    Then please explain your rationale (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:45:33 PM EST
    for so rating my comment:  Stellaaa.

    whoops, where did that go (none / 0) (#73)
    by tben on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:02:24 PM EST
    You see the problem Oc? How can I put this without being deleted?

    I thought you were making an attempt to throw the discussion into the gutter.


    Parent

    Stellaaa (none / 0) (#47)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:52:25 PM EST


    Why are you guys calling for Stellaaa? (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 08:58:56 PM EST
    Not that I don't enjoy and look forward to Stellaaa's comments myself.

    Or is this a Streetcar ref I'm missing?

    Parent

    In the earlier post about (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    Obama's faith-based initiative speech, I replied to someone other than tben with:  "Stellaaa."  Tben then rated my one-word comments as a "1."  I wanted Stellaaa's input on Obama's speech, as she is quite well informed and has strong opinions on the merits of various forms of public/private (read community) social action.  

    Parent
    LOL, thanks. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Valhalla on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:21:54 PM EST


    Parent
    LOL, 'Stellaaa' is now a swear-word !?! (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Ellie on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 10:17:19 PM EST
    Get the Stellaaa'ddahere!

    Parent
    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Valhalla on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 01:03:47 AM EST
    Or 'What the Stellaaa are you talking about?'

    Parent
    This Qualifies As (none / 0) (#56)
    by JimWash08 on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:11:12 PM EST
    "cheap, gratuitious insults, mindless bashing, or to gross distortions of the facts."

    Can you take it as easily as you serve it?

    sure (none / 0) (#61)
    by tben on Tue Jul 01, 2008 at 09:16:50 PM EST
    but it would help if you explained your point a bit.
    I think that what I wrote was calm, factual, and relevant. What are your specific objections?

    Parent
    Another (none / 0) (#93)
    by tek on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 07:03:55 AM EST
    Great Speech?  I'm on the edge of my seat here.

    Were these speeches televised? (none / 0) (#98)
    by joanneleon on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 10:37:04 AM EST
    I didn't see any of the three speeches on TV.  Until recently, it seemed like everytime Obama spoke it was carried on C-SPAN and/or the cable news channels.

    Why wasn't there more coverage of these three speeches, I wonder?

    That Hillary's advisors made a mistake (none / 0) (#99)
    by hairspray on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 12:35:30 PM EST
    about competing in the caucuses is quite clear. On the other hand, Hillary won the states that mattered and in the end she won the popular vote.  Unable to change the way delegates are awarded, not only in caucus states but elsewhere, she went to the Super delegates and said I have won where it counts, please award me your votes.  The DNC said "Michigan is our answer"  Now YOU go read that report and open your teeny partisan mind.

    huh? (none / 0) (#101)
    by tben on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 01:53:22 PM EST
    She did not "win the popular vote". Not unless you pretend that no one in the state of Michigan went to the polls in support of Obama. You can claim that the lever they pushed was marked "undecided", and that therefore they dont exist, or should not be counted, but no one who respects the notion of one person one vote will buy into that.

    Secondly, what do you mean "Unable to change the way delegates are awarded..."? Why SHOULD she, or anyone, change the way delegates are awarded in the middle of the race?

    Yeah, she went to the superdelegates and asked for their votes. Some supported her. Some didnt. In the end, enough supported Obama to confirm the results amongst the pledged delegates and put him over the top.

    Michigan was irrelevant in this regard. She lost by well over 150 delegate votes. The Michigan dispute was over 2 votes.

    I realize how disappointed you must be, but why on earth is it so difficult for you to simply deal with reality, and accept that, by a tiny margin (no doubt) your fellow party members chose someone other than your favortie candidate.

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    Hillary could not change the delegate (none / 0) (#102)
    by hairspray on Wed Jul 02, 2008 at 05:22:27 PM EST
    rules even before the process began. States have their anachronistic rules in place for the real reason of saving money and keeping the hoi-polloi out of the nomination process. That was where Axelrod outmaneuvered her.  But that is the only place where their talent excelled. The rest was sheer disenfranchisement and you know it, but you don't want to see it. How many people went to the polls in Michigan to support Obama? All of the uncommitted? Hardly, but they were awarded plus four to Obama.  We could have found out how that race turned out but the hacks in the Obama camp in Michigan refused to allow for a revote. Talk about stealing.
    How about the inflated delgates from caucus to primary.  Washington state is a perfect example. He is no more entitled to those delegates than I am.
    I am not disappointed, I am angry.  I am no longer a Democrat.  They are trying to foist an empy suit down the throats of the American people and people like you keep screaming "get over it"  Read P. Cronin, if you have any intellectual honestly, which I doubt.

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    Obama Speech Weds. on National Public Service | 81 comments (81 topical)

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