Saturday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:24:45 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)

Share This: Digg!

The Tour de France reaches its decisive stage this morning with the Maillot Jeune likely to be decided in today's time trial. Spaniard Carlos Sastre holds a 1:34 lead over the superior time trialer Australian Cadel Evans. By the numbers, Evans should make up the time and win the Tour. But there are no guarantees.

In other news, the Yoo-Bybee II torture memo has been released, sort of (most of it has been redacted), but one chilling bit of "legal analysis" is disclosed:

"To validate the statute, an individual must have the specific intent to inflict severe pain or suffering," it reads at one point. "Because specific intent is an element of the offense, the absence of specific intent negates the charge of torture."

More . .

Only torture with sadistic intent is actionable according to the Bush Administration, speaking through Yoo and Bybee. If your primary intent is to extract information, with the sadism just an added bonus, the torture is legal according to BushCo. This is not an Onion parody. That is what the memo says.

Spencer Ackermann interviewed the ACLU's Jameel Jaffer who said:

"It's very easy to make a case for a serious criminal investigation," Jaffer said. "There is copious evidence at this point that senior officials authorized torture, and as a result of the authority given to them by senior officials, CIA interrogators tortured prisoners in their custody. It's a disgrace there hasn't been a serious investigation of why CIA adopted interrogation methods that amount to torture and what happened as a result."

Do you think Obama legal advisor Cass Sunstein thinks this constitutes "egregious crimes?" Me neither.

Speaking for me only.

< Censoring Pictures of the Dead in Iraq | Fred Hiatt And John McCain: Partners In The New McCarthyism >

Legal

Nothing on this site should be construed as legal advice. TalkLeft does not give legal advice.

TalkLeft is not responsible for and often disagrees with material posted in the comments section. Read at your own risk.

Saturday Morning Open Thread | 62 comments (62 topical)

Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

Impeachment should have occurred (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Saul on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:16:29 AM EST

with Bush and Cheney. I do not think there have been a more deserving administration for impeachment. Now the extension of these executive powers which were illegal will be legalized by the next administration's unless the next congress revokes everything the Bush administration did wrong. Brue Fein has written extensively on why the Bush Cheney administration needs to be impeached and the perils for not doing it. He criticizes this congress for not doing it. He did an interview with Moyer's Crooks and Liars on this very topic. You can see the whole interview on the above link.

Torture (5.00 / 0) (#5)
by mmc9431 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:23:07 AM EST

The fact that we continually try to justify torture is disgusting to me. I can image the outrage across this country if this was being practiced on any of our soldiers by another country.

I haven't heard anything from Obama as to where he stands on this issue. Has he addressed this?

: Not forcefully enough (5.00 / 3) (#6)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:25:04 AM EST

: Several Democrats in Congress voted in (5.00 / 1) (#9)
by MO Blue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:07:32 AM EST

favor of torture and their constituents are still willing to vote the D. Democratic voters who are willing to support those candidates have no room IMO to rail against Republican for taking the same position.

I know this site officially supports Obama (5.00 / 0) (#10)
by kenosharick on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:08:12 AM EST

now, but I am surprised that the latest CNN(a very pro-Obama news outlet)poll numbers are not being talked about. The national race at 3 points (within the MOE) and Michigan, Minn, and Colo. all virtually tied or mccain leading. We were told these states would be Obama blowouts. Wisconsin has also tightened slightly- watch for a deadheat there. On the flip side, Obama is improving in New Mexico.

Apparently Obama's campaign is floating Repub (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:23:55 AM EST

woman, Ann Venneman, as VP. She was BushBoy appointee--first-term Agriculture Secretary.

Holy Cow, Batman!

The mention of Veneman's name surprised Democratic lawmakers. The low-profile Republican was close to food and agriculture industries but clashed with farm-state Democrats and environmentalists during her tenure, which lasted from 2001 to 2004.
SNIP
The selection of a Republican could bolster Obama's unifying message, a Capitol Hill Democrat familiar with the discussion said.
"You select a strong independent woman who appeals to Republicans and independents, and so that's hard to beat," the Hill source said, explaining the logic of the possible choice. "Choosing someone like [Veneman] doesn't hurt you with the Democrats. It just doesn't hurt you. But it helps you with Independents and Republicans."

What next in Bizarro World??? Is this fuzzy thinking, hubris, or just Repub fluffling trial balloon?

Want to try to describe an Obama tenure?

My newly acquired 'The Wire" language (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:20:45 AM EST

almost came out of my fingers reading this. But I remembered Jeralyn's guidelines.

What are they thinking? Do they really think they need to court Republicans this badly? Or maybe it is a setup for the Sebelius pick - making her look good by comparison to a Republican woman.


These stories about (none / 0) (#21)
by brodie on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:44:05 AM EST

TeamO possibly considering various Rs or center-right Dems for Veep almost certainly are intended as a safe cost-free way to help de-liberalize and position the candidate more in the political center, make him more acceptable to the moderate swing indies in the middle, and don't represent the actual short list of #2s.

There could also be something there wrt prepping the ground for a non-HRC woman -- i.e., Sebelius pick -- though there's been so little of that groundwork going on over the past month I'm starting to doubt whether O will be taking my advice on this one.

The probables as I see them are: Bidin', Bayh, Kaine and, still in the running, Sebelius.

Low-wattage Jack Reed has been talking lately like he doesn't want the job -- or expects not to be asked.


Jack Reed would (none / 0) (#44)
by rjarnold on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:19:38 PM EST

be a great VP, but if he were picked then Dems would lose a Senate seat since RI has a republican governor. That might be why he doesn't want it.

I also don't see how they could pick Kaine since he is pro-abortion which would alienate a lot of people. Sebelius hasn't polled well at all as a VP. So, I think that Biden and Bayh definitely have the best chances, and it will be interesting to see how the Netroots reacts to a DLC moderate as VP.


I agree...mostly. (none / 0) (#45)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:27:58 PM EST

Anybody with a pro-choice record would be a plus, not a minus.


: Wow, that was a major typo (none / 0) (#49)
by rjarnold on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:49:14 PM EST

I meant to say that he is pro-life (and therefore a bad choice) not pro-abortion.

I'll wait for the official word. (none / 0) (#22)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:44:56 AM EST

It probably won't make much of a difference in my vote, but may make a huge difference in my attitude.

I'm already at apathetic, but I could go to reluctant acceptance for Hillary Clinton as VP.


I don't see Hillary (5.00 / 0) (#27)
by brodie on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:05:04 PM EST

in O's final four.

HRC as VP represents the one certain thing that could happen which would resurrect the nearly comatose McCain't candidacy. And which would automatically bring unhelpful, highly negative media coverage to the Obama ticket. Not to mention the MCM's 24/7 Bill Watch.

That's way too much drama and distraction for TeamO -- they'll want to minimize the level of risk with the VP pick not greatly enhance it.


: Hi brodie. I hope you're wrong. I had a huge (none / 0) (#35)
by Teresa on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:23:28 PM EST

shock this week. Two family members who were most opposed to Obama getting the nomination and who swore they would never vote for him told me they had changed their minds.
I asked why and they had two reasons. One, they thought Obama handled his trip well and wouldn't embarrass us the way Bush would/did, and two they are shocked at some of McCain's misstatements and don't believe that he is capable of making the right decisions for our country. My brother, who said previously that he would vote for McCain, has decided that Obama is intelligent enough to outweigh any lack of experience he may have.
My mother said there is only one way he will lose her vote now...pick Sebelius or any woman other than Hillary. The men mentioned (other than Richardson) are okay with her. I really believe it will be a big mistake to pick a woman that isn't Clinton because it will bring back all of the hard feelings of the primary and would reverse any healing that may be happening.

That choice would result in me casting (5.00 / 0) (#25)
by MO Blue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:01:48 PM EST

my first vote ever for a Republican President.

Setting up a Republican for a future shot at the presidency is not my idea of an acceptable strategy for the so called Democratic Party. Might not hurt Obama with some Democrats but would definitely impact my vote.


If it is true and obama is setting a repub (5.00 / 2) (#32)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:17:37 PM EST

up to inherit the WH in the event of his death, or any other reason, then might as well vote for a republican and skip the middleman.


: That is my feelings on the subject (5.00 / 0) (#36)
by MO Blue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:23:59 PM EST

The other reason is that the Democratic Party would have been changed completely into the Unity08 Party. It would become a meld of the two parties rather than a party of opposition to the Republicans and their agenda.

DINO? RINO? (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:19:25 PM EST

What would a (R) ex-Vice President run as? Unity Party?

I'd probably look forward to that. The Dems' Republican VP runs for election under a Unity Party banner and the whole political landscape fractures as minor parties start growing by leaps and bounds. (For the Presidential race, at any rate.)

And then there's the whole issue of succession...would the Republicans impeach Obama so they could get a Republican President? Talk about temptation!


I think (none / 0) (#13)
by rottenart on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:46:24 AM EST

this might be a little red meat for all the media prognosticators. Floating the idea that he might pick a Bush Republican, along with another Republican that has bucked the Bush line on the war, Chuck Hagel, gives Obama cover to say, "I was considering all the options, Rep and Dem, when making my choice." I think he understands the support he would lose from the left if he were to pick a R and this is just smart electioneering.

Of course, I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy, so...


: And a sop to Clinton supporters--bcz she's a WOMAN (5.00 / 0) (#14)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:54:30 AM EST

Crikey, how dumb do they think voters are? If that's the objective.
But, seriously, what would Veneman bring to the ticket? Or offer the nation were she to have to take over the presidency?
What is this search committee thinking???

Obama picking a GOP VP will be ... (none / 0) (#23)
by Robot Porter on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:46:02 AM EST

a deal breaker for me.

But, frankly, this just seems like a "Look, Ma, I'm a centrist!" trial balloon.

Yawn.


The Wire (5.00 / 0) (#17)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:16:28 AM EST

I've been sitting out the Orlando summer heat inside, taking BTD's and others advice and watching DVDs of "The Wire", which I inexplicably missed during its run on HBO. I am almost through Season 1 - waiting for Netflix to deliver the last Season 1 DVD this afternoon. It is so good I have to remind myself it is a TV show and not real people going through their lives. I'm one of those people who picks up slang and accents easily and have been referring to cops as 5-0 for the last two weeks, among other things, mostly in my head so far. A fifty year old white woman would look like an idiot saying that stuff out loud.

If this show is as true to life as people say it is, the "war on drugs" is the most futile mission ever attempted.

I have all the other seasons Q'd up. Thanks to all who recommended it.

For balance I also recently got hooked on the 'Inspector Morse' and 'Inspector Lewis' BBC series', set in Oxford. But hey, drugs, murder, humans in trouble, and police work are universal - it is just an accent shock going from one to another.

Some recommendations; (5.00 / 0) (#46)
by LatinoVoter on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:32:44 PM EST

If you like it and you need a fix in between DVDs of The Wire. Try The Corner (also about Baltimore and drugs)

The Corner chronicles the life of a family living in poverty amid the open-air drug markets of West Baltimore.
The miniseries was critically acclaimed[1] and won several Emmy Awards in 2000, including that for best miniseries. Charles S. Dutton won for his direction of the mini series. David Mills and David Simon won Emmys for their writing. The Corner was also nominated for Outstanding Casting for a Miniseries, Movie or a Special.

And The Boys of Baraka.

"The Boys of Baraka," an award-winning film that has its television debut on PBS's "P.O.V." series tonight, focuses on four African-American boys given a chance to trade the mean streets of Baltimore for two years of specialized education at the Baraka School in Kenya. It's a conventional story of bootstraps and good intentions. But midway through the boys' African odyssey, the program is disbanded because of terrorism concerns. That's when the film becomes a more complicated tale: one of a dream derailed.
"Boys" opens with young men on Baltimore streets and stoops, playing cops with discomfiting intensity. It's like a scene from "Homicide: Life on the Street," only real. The documentary unfolds slowly, letting us get to know its subjects and their fractured but caring families. Richard and Romesh are brothers; their mother insists that both go to the Baraka School, or neither.

I would also add (5.00 / 0) (#51)
by rottenart on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:11:27 PM EST

Showtime's EXCELLENT show "Dexter" to the list. Part cop-drama, part-thriller, part-comedy, it tells the tale of a vigilante serial killer who works as a forensics specialist for a special team of investigators in Miami whose task is to CATCH SERIAL KILLERS!

The show is really smartly written, with excellent characters and lots of great tension built within that premise. I'd gush more, but you should really check it out!

I also think it will be airing on CBS Sundays this fall, with that new crossover network thing going on.


Oh yeah, I've been hooked on Dexter (5.00 / 0) (#53)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:17:54 PM EST

since it started. I could gush too. It has a lot lighter touch, despite the subject matter - it is a laugh riot compared to the more realistic heartbreak of "The Wire"!


I luvvvvv Dexter!!! He makes you (none / 0) (#56)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:29:45 PM EST

nervous for him sometimes...drives me crazy. I don't think it had the same impact on regular TV...too much editing like The Soprano's on A&E. BTW...you are a good gusher :)


: LOL - thanks (none / 0) (#57)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:36:23 PM EST

I probably watch WAY too much TV!

lol....5-0....remember Hawaii 5-0? (none / 0) (#26)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:04:14 PM EST

Nobody ever told Jack Lord he looked like an idiot for saying 5-0 :) 5-0 sounds better than "pigs" in my estimation.


Exactly (none / 0) (#52)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:14:47 PM EST

I'm sure that is where the slang comes from. Cracks me up.

I didn't watch this show when it was on originally because I was already hooked on Sopranos, Deadwood, Six Feet Under, and god knows what all and just didn't want to commit myself to another show. Actually I like it better watching all the episodes back to back, especially in a show with so many characters to keep track of.


Hawaii 5-0 ran for 12 years from 1968 (none / 0) (#55)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST

to 1980...waaaaaaaaay before DVD's. I watched all the Soprano's, OZ, Deadwood (still mad they just arbitrarily canceled it). The show, Las Vegas, was canceled also, with no warning and no tying up loose ends. Currently watching Weeds, The Closer, Saving Grace, Fear Itself...I am hooked on TV :)


Losing 'Deadwood' that way was horrible (5.00 / 0) (#58)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:38:44 PM EST

That was my favorite of all the shows. I can really gush about that one ;-) For one thing, what other show had so many great female characters?


: I loved Calamity Jane!! (none / 0) (#60)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:52:18 PM EST

The system worked. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:35:20 AM EST

I do so hate testing the emergency response system personally. Took my two sons to the public pool yesterday. After two hours I ended up hauling my five year old out of the kiddie pool twice after the bell rang for everybody out of the pool about the same time they were hauling the seven year old out and performing CPR on him. There was an ambulance ride to the children's hospital ER, a chest X-ray, hanging out for hours in the ER for observation and finally being sent home.

He wore a float vest and 5-10 minutes before The Incident, I told him he had one last shot at the water slide before the break. He had his vest on then, but it wasn't on him when they pulled him out. He said he took it off himself. He doesn't say why. He liked it, so I don't know why he would...argh! It just another one of those Rumsfeldian known unknowns that we may never puzzle out.

The pools were not crowded and the swimmers are generally well behaved. I haven't found out if his vest was found in the water or out of it, but it looks like it was an accident caused by exhaustion.

Anyway. Kudos to everyone who did everything right - the lifeguard, the civilian who did CPR, the EMTs, the staff at the hospital, the helpful concerned civilians and me...I think. I'm still wondering if I did anything wrong. I've got a bit of the Bad Mommy Blues.

Glad your son is okay (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by caseyOR on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:54:24 PM EST

I understand the Bad Mommy Blues, but I think you might want to give yourself a break. I was a lifeguard in high school and college, and I know from experience that those things happen so very quickly. It sounds like, short of holding your son's hand every single step of the way (which is almost impossible to do) , you did everything you could to ensure his safety.

Parental oversight is important. However, nothing beats a well-trained and vigilant lifeguard. And that is just what you found at your pool.

By the way, parental kudos for the safety vest. Don't give up on it. As an aside, have you started swim lessons for both children? The thinking is mixed on lessons for babies, but once the kids are walking, swimming lessons are critical.


Next week for lessons. (none / 0) (#47)
by Fabian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:37:32 PM EST

Ironic!

We just got to the point where I could take both kids out by myself. Dad & Grandpa did their first pool trip last month. This week we(Mom & kids) did our first pool trip with a float vest for the younger son who was feeling very insecure even in the kiddie pool. Yesterday I got a float vest for the older kid who has hemiplegic cerebral palsy - muscle weakness on one side. He wanted to try everything and because of his disability, he can get into trouble very quickly.

On our first trip this week, I literally had to carry him to the car because he did not want to leave. Then it was two hours of insisting we needed to go back to the pool tomorrow. Oh, and insisting we need a backyard pool. (I'm strongly against that, even a small one - for reasons he didn't understand.)

When he was sleeping in the ER, he dreamed about The Incident. His heart rate shot up and his head arched back, mouth open. Poor kid. Now we have to change the meme from "Pools are too scary." to "These are the things you need to learn to be safe in the water.".


Fabrian, pools are scarey (none / 0) (#61)
by JavaCityPal on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:22:14 PM EST

My sister drowned in hers on June 30th this year, just before her 45th birthday. Her husband, then the paramedics worked on her all the way to the hospital where they pronounced her DOA.

I'm so glad to hear your son came through the ordeal fine.


: Oh, so sorry to hear that. (none / 0) (#62)
by Fabian on Sun Jul 27, 2008 at 07:24:44 AM EST

It doesn't take much. All you need to do is lose function for a minute and the water does the rest. Seizure, stroke, a bump on the head or exhaustion can all cause people to drown.

Oh, mercy me! This is a hoot! (5.00 / 0) (#39)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:37:16 PM EST

Brit humor.

Thank you, Gerard Baker!

And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

Obamacans may even find it funny. Maybe...

Via gob's link at correntewire.com

: Note that Baker thinks Cameron will be the next PM (none / 0) (#41)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:41:07 PM EST

Plenty of digs to go around!

myself, i prefer (5.00 / 0) (#42)
by cpinva on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:51:08 PM EST

"Deadwood", "Six Feet Under" and "Rome", the only original productions making it worthwhile to pay for HBO.

franken will do fine against coleman. simply put, franken is just wayyyyyyyyyyy smarter than coleman can ever imagine being, in his wildest dreams (or nightmares).

it's encouraging to note warner's substantial poll lead against gilmore, possibly the single most obnoxious (and inept) politician produced in va in my lifetime.

: Deadwood is my favorite (5.00 / 0) (#54)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:21:06 PM EST

It had its faults and my critical faculties can see why it does not get the accolades. But I liked it the best.

Maybe a taser test is in order (none / 0) (#1)
by Saul on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:54:36 AM EST

I seen or more than one occasion on TV many guys purposely take a taser on news to see how bad it is. Maybe Bush and Cheney need these non torture tactics they approve of tried on them and then let's see what they got to say about them.

: Tasers on Bush and Cheney? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 08:59:48 AM EST

Let's try holy water first.

: No tasering the pacemaker (none / 0) (#38)
by Cream City on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:37:07 PM EST

in Cheney, the Bionic Man. That leaves Bush -- but best he not be wearing the electronic box on his back under the jacket. . . .

Cadel Evans is on the course (none / 0) (#4)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:22:56 AM EST

Sastre starts at 10:26 am.

Evans through the first time check (none / 0) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 09:46:12 AM EST

in 22:08, which is not great. In fact, Menchov, a minmute behind Evans, picks up 16 seconds on Evans. Kohl, who leads Evans, was 4 seconds faster through the first time check.


: Sastre holds off Evans (none / 0) (#19)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:33:02 AM EST

Will win the Tour de France.

Recent Senate Polling (none / 0) (#8)
by CoralGables on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:03:15 AM EST

Looking at the Senate side. Below are 10 seats currently held by the GOP and the most recent polling out of each state. What will the Dem majority add this cycle? 4 to 7? Sixty is not going to happen.

Alaska Begich(D) +8 (Ras)
Colorado Udall(D) +3 (Ras)
Kentucky McConnell(R) +7 (Ras)
Maine Collins(R) +10 (Ras)
Minnesota Franken(D) +3 (Ras)
Mississippi Wicker(R) +1 (Ras)
New Hamp Shaheen(D) +4 (U of NH)
North Carolina Dole(R) +12 (Surv USA)
Virginia Warner(D) +25 (PPP)

Oregon Merkley(D) vs Smith(R) Tied (Ras)

I continue to be amazed at Franken still competitive after horribly bad press and Smith in Oregon on the cusp of losing when they continue to like him there.

Hope Franken wins that seat (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by MO Blue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 10:11:45 AM EST

He would definitely be a progressive Senator in the true sense of the word.

Wish the Dems were doing better against Collins and Dole (yuck).


Hard To Lose (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:00:07 AM EST

Against such a terrible GOP candidate such as Coleman, but looks like Franken will succeed in losing.

"Planned Parenthood understands that Minnesotans evaluate our political candidates based on their record, values and character," McCollum said. "It is appalling that anyone could characterize rape, a violent and horrible crime, as a joke."
[snip]
Franken's campaign spokeswoman, Jess McIntosh, responded to distribution of the article by going after Coleman.
"Norm Coleman voted against funding for the Violence Against Women Act," she said. "He ought to be ashamed."
[snip]
In response to concerns raised by women over the Playboy article, the Franken campaign distributed a statement in his defense from Shannon Drury, president of Minnesota's chapter of the National Organization of Women.
"Now its content is being used as an excuse to label him a misogynist. Nothing could be further from the truth," Drury wrote Tuesday. "In fact, Al Franken will be a senator who will work tirelessly in support of women's issues. After meeting with Al personally, I find his honesty and openness refreshing, his intelligence and perseverance inspiring."

I live in Mississippi and (none / 0) (#24)
by CaptainAmerica08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:49:13 AM EST

I'm telling you, Wicker has IMO no more than a 50% shot at winning in this deepest of red states.


Very disappointed in the AF (none / 0) (#31)
by brodie on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:13:40 PM EST

campaign.

It's as if, once again, the Dem has failed to do that necessary self-oppo research/disclosure which, if handled right -- forthrightly and preemptively -- could have partly spared the candidate from the embarrassing, and possibly fatal, revelations in the general. Get it out early and completely -- hang a lantern on your problems, as RFK once advised, and most people will tend to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Still time to recover, but he's dug himself into a fair-sized hole.

And against such a weasely and eminently beatable turncoat pol in Coleman who deserved to get a thumping by voters.


: Apparently noone cares that Coleman (none / 0) (#34)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:22:16 PM EST

has never found out what happened to that 9 billion dollars that went missing in Iraq, that was under the pervue of his committee.
Al Franken will come out alright.

Afghanistan: Downside of increasing US military (none / 0) (#16)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 11:08:21 AM EST

force there: Came across this blog by Jay McDonough
via antiwar.com, which has several comments about what might well go wrong by increasing the use of force in Afghanistan. Juan Cole, Zgiegnew B, and more.

That "doing more" in Afghanistan militarily is the right thing to do is rapidly becoming CW.

For what it is worth: (none / 0) (#28)
by PssttCmere08 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:06:48 PM EST

: Oh man, the backlash (5.00 / 0) (#59)
by ruffian on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 02:51:24 PM EST

is not going to be pretty.

: I read that last night. Very funny for both (none / 0) (#29)
by Teresa on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:09:31 PM EST

Obama supporters and not Obama supporters, I think. I can't imagine that even Obama wouldn't get a kick out of that.

: That is disgusting IMO n/t (none / 0) (#30)
by MO Blue on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:10:15 PM EST

: Honest, when I began , before losing mousepower, (none / 0) (#40)
by jawbone on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:39:37 PM EST

you hadn't posted! I must keep batteries at the desk and more accessible....
Anyway, so good, it should be posted twice!

Didn't they execute Nazis for (none / 0) (#37)
by MarkL on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 12:29:58 PM EST

similar "bureaucratic" enabling of atrocities?

: All American torture (none / 0) (#50)
by andjustice4all on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:50:37 PM EST

That was my first thought, too
And that is so appalling to me that I cannot begin to express it adequately...

Animal Right Nazis (none / 0) (#48)
by squeaky on Sat Jul 26, 2008 at 01:48:47 PM EST

NEW YORK. A committee in San Francisco's city government has introduced a bill that would allow misdemeanour or felony criminal charges to be brought against any artist or financial backer who causes "the death, abuse or suffering of an animal" when making a work of art.
[snip]
The proposal comes in response to a recent video installation by Algerian-French artist Adel Abdessemed at the San Francisco Art Institute (SFAI) showing the killing of six farm animals. The Art Institute was forced to close the show in late March after only one week when Abdessemed, curator Hou Hanru and staff members received a series of death threats from animal rights extremists (The Art Newspaper, May 2008, p3). The SFAI says that Abdessemed was documenting traditional methods of food production in Mexico and that no gratuitous violence took place to make the videos.

The Art Newspaper

Documenting animal slaughter for food production, a crime, but death threats OK. What a topsy turvy world we live in.