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Tuesday Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:31:09 AM EST
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    Tuesday Open Thread | 201 comments (201 topical)
    Anybody see the clip.... (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:39:06 AM EST
    of that wanna-be NFL NYPD goon tackling that poor cyclist for no reason.

    Woulda got away with it too, and pinned an assault rap on the victim...if it wasn't for those meddling kids and their youtube.  Link

    They'll give any droog a badge and a gun....but what do you expect for less than 30k a year.

    Yes (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:45:59 AM EST
    And I was not surprised by it, sadly.  At least he was stripped of his badge and gun, pending an investigation. Thank Apollo for videos, otherwise the cyclist would still be in jail, the hospital, or a grave.


    [ Parent ]
    But (none / 0) (#26)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:58:54 AM EST
    I'd like to see all the details of this story when it's over.

    From MSNBC...

    "The biker, Christopher Long, of Hoboken, N.J., was arrested because he was obstructing traffic in the heart of Times Square, a criminal complaint said. He was charged with attempted assault, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

    The complaint said Long, 29, deliberately steered his bicycle into the officer, causing both of them to fall to the ground.

    During his arrest, Long squirmed and kicked, saying to the officers, "You are pawns in the game. I'm gonna have your job," the complaint said.

    There were no other arrests during the ride.

    Long's lawyer, David Rankin, said he hopes the Manhattan district attorney's office will drop the charges. The district attorney's office said it was investigating.

    Long's next court date was set for Sept. 5."

    [ Parent ]

    Watch the video. (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:02:11 PM EST
    It tells a different story.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:08:05 PM EST
    I'm just telling what's being reported.  That's why I want to hear the whole story at some point, because the video is only a portion of the complete story. Maybe the biker provoked the cop, maybe the cop is a rogue and should be fired.  But we all know that videos like this on YouTube never tell the whole story - so let's wait and see.

    [ Parent ]
    Watch the clip.... (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:08:25 PM EST
    I guess by assault they mean riding your bike and allowing yourself to be savagely tackled to the pavement.  If that's assault, I'm an astronaut.

    Resisting is a human instinct to being assaulted.  Some goon jumps on you, protecting yourself cannot be a crime.

    And I woulda said a lot worse to that animal if I was on the receiving end of his brutality.

    Besides, the courts have already decided the protest group doesn't need a permit to hold their bike rides.  

    [ Parent ]

    Huh? (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11:07 PM EST
    Wow, Not sure why you would be parroting the Police version of the story, considering NYC police policy on the monthly Critical Mass bike rides.

    Critical Mass, a bicycle ride normally held on the last Friday of each month as a form of protest against reliance on vehicles and bicyclist/motorist relations, has been a long standing irritation to the New York Police Department.

    Although attempts by New York City to ban the event have failed in court, the tradition has created a somewhat adversarial relationship between the riders and NYPD officers who detest the event.

    link


    [ Parent ]

    All I said was (none / 0) (#37)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:17 PM EST
    Do you know what went on before the camera started rolling?

    [ Parent ]
    What could have possibly gone on..... (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:18:46 PM EST
    to justify that?

    If there was any kind of bullsh*t justification the NYPD could peddle, they would.  But they can't cuz there is none...the goon claimed he was the one who was assaulted for christ's sake!

    [ Parent ]

    My Point Exactly (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:16:56 PM EST
    Before the camera was rolling the NYC police had contempt for these people. Well documented, contempt.

    [ Parent ]
    Apparently. . . (none / 0) (#48)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:52 PM EST
    the video shows the encounter from before the bicyclist came on the scene.

    [ Parent ]
    Geez, the cyclist (none / 0) (#27)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:59:34 AM EST
    was an Army veteran?

    [ Parent ]
    Wow. (none / 0) (#68)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:58 PM EST
    Assuming the cop is human, I cannot imagine how he rationalized his actions.

    iow, how he told himself "My duty, either morally or due my badge, is to just F this random dude up."

    Even if there had been something wrong or illegal or something the cyclist did off-camera, unless he was trying to escape a bank robbery with a bag of $1000 bills over his shoulder I can't imagine a scenario where a cop could just do that.

    It will be interesting to hear his version of the story.

    [ Parent ]

    Never mind. (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:04:31 PM EST
    The cop's side of the story is here.He's a lying slug. Buh bye.

    [ Parent ]
    A very likely... (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    and believable story though...if there was no video.

    No videotape and this victim of assault likely gets put through the criminal justice ringer....fines, lawyer fees, maybe a little jail...the whole nine.

    As much as I can't stand the camera-fication of society, it does have a bright side:)

    [ Parent ]

    His version... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:06:35 PM EST
    from the NY Daily News.

    In court documents, Pogan said he saw Long weaving in and out of lanes and obstructing traffic before he ordered the cyclist to stop. The cop claimed Long deliberately drove his bike into him, sending both of them falling to the ground. Pogan claimed to have suffered cuts from the impact.

    Looks like the officer is a big fat liar.  

    [ Parent ]

    Well, he didn't ook that fat (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:00:20 PM EST
    but you sure got the rest of that right.

    [ Parent ]
    Tomorrow (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:44 AM EST
    I am taking the bar exam.

    It is my fourth bar exam!

    Wish me luck.  Only 46 states to go, unless we admit Puerto Rico in the meantime.

    jesus that's rough (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:45:10 AM EST
    my wife took one in Az. And now she's going to Cal to take that one.

    [ Parent ]
    Best of luck. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:46:46 AM EST
    I, too, expect to be before the bar tonight albeit in a somewhat different capacity.

    [ Parent ]
    Me Too (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:49:15 AM EST
    Lots of states to go..

    [ Parent ]
    Vacation starts this weekend (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:49 AM EST
    I'll be fishing at a remote, though reachable-by-car, site in the Great White North.  Beer.  Fishing.  And more beer.

    [ Parent ]
    Will you BYOB (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:00:57 PM EST
    Or are you going to depend on the local fare? Is it legal to cross the border with beer?

    [ Parent ]
    I had a co-worker who would..... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:07:48 PM EST
    ....routinely hire a bartender to accompany them on extended family vacations. The bartender got a free trip and was generally the designated driver.

    [ Parent ]
    Sounds Smart (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:29 PM EST
    If you like to be served mixed drinks.. and have a sober driver.

    [ Parent ]
    Go to Canada, (none / 0) (#74)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:09:07 PM EST
    buy Canadian beer.

    They have a neat deal (or have on recent years' trips):  Buy a case of one of the local (not exported) brands at the price of 24 bottles (deposit bottles) and the case comes with 28 bottles.  I call it a "fisherman's case" of beer.

    IIRC, one can cross the border with some (relatively small) amount of beer, or buy it at the duty-free at the border crossing.  We wait b/c we perceive the price works out better both in actual dollars and gas-spent-hauling-the-extra-weight.  Plus, one can't drink in a car in Canada anyway (and a DWI, here or there, can keep you out of the country in future - they consider it a pretty serious crime), so why hurry.

    [ Parent ]

    Sounds Like A Great Trip (none / 0) (#78)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:16:06 PM EST
    Enjoy! I get pleasure out of simply imagining it..  You are bringing the dog, I assume. Dogs need vacations too...


    [ Parent ]
    Nope - dog stays home. (none / 0) (#116)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:10:28 PM EST
    1. No room in the car.
    2. No one to look after dog during day.
    3. Long, long drive and dog is disinclined to drives over, say, 2 hours.
    4. Wolves in the neighborhood up there.

    Dog gets to be boarded out in a friend's house, with a couple other dogs to play with.  I'll come home, and dog will look at me like "who are you?"

    [ Parent ]
    We used to make excursions across the border (none / 0) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:24:34 PM EST
    for Molson Brador back in my misspent college days. Can almost taste them as I type this...

    [ Parent ]
    Now (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM EST
    Miller Coors and Moslon are one. These kinds of American beer are not doing well of late.

    Craft brewers up 17% while the rest of the bud type market is flat.

    As Monty Python said, drinking American beer is like making love in a canoe.... It is f'ing close to water.

    [ Parent ]

    Molson Brador's a little different from Coors, (none / 0) (#107)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:02:15 PM EST
    he says with a wee bit of understatement...

    [ Parent ]
    Ahhh- the legendary Brador. (none / 0) (#119)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:18:30 PM EST
    That was always the stuff that was told about in stories of legendary beers which were so superior (in taste, quality, intoxicating power, seduction-facilitating power, or some combination thereof) that only the most resolute of searchers could find and properly enjoy them.  It had always just sold out, and the guy at the beer store offered instead a six pack of the black-on-white cans of the dreaded "generic" Beer or, worse, weeks-stale PBR, to us, the loveable losers who got there 10 minutes too late.

    Never did get a Brador, but the adventures in search of were/are worthy of a moment's recollection.

    [ Parent ]

    Too funny, and completely accurate. (none / 0) (#125)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:28:19 PM EST
    I'm guessing you're going after some Canadian fish with big teeth? Sounds like fun.

    Just broke the kids in on bluegills last weekend. They were pulling 'em out of the lake like nobody's business.

    We leave for rural VA on Fri and I am bringing my fly rod...

    [ Parent ]

    Bluegills on a fly rod are an absolute blast (none / 0) (#132)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:43:22 PM EST
    I caught (and released) the biggest one I've ever seen (a dinner plate, measured at about an inch short of a state record) on a fly rod with a #12 olive deer-hair caddis.  It took a good 15 minutes to work in and it's one of those fish one never forgets.

    If you cast the fly out for a kid (get it out there and let it sit) and get him/her into a bluegill on it, you're likely to get that kid hooked on fishing for life.  The kid will think he's got Moby Dick or "jaws" on the other end.

    This trip, though, we're going with the old-reliable five-of-diamonds spoons vs. northern pike.  I have to buy a new spoon though - I wore my favorite one out on the last trip.

    [ Parent ]

    Yep, the kids loved it. (none / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:57:06 PM EST
    We're staying on the Rappahannock and the internet says it's a good smallmouth area. I've never fished for smallmouth before, most of the streams had trout where I grew up in NJ, but I'm sure we'll get the kids to haul in some bigger fish. Can't wait.

    [ Parent ]
    Smallies are a lot of fun, too (none / 0) (#143)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:25:55 PM EST
    IF you get into one on a fly rod, you're in for an adventure.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, we're bringing the spinning rods as well, (none / 0) (#144)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:38:19 PM EST
    esp for the kids.

    [ Parent ]
    Need a partner in that practice:)...n/t (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:20:43 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Sure (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:24:55 PM EST
    The more the merrier.. It is a Pub lic practice after all... cheers!

    [ Parent ]
    are there any legal cocktails? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:49:40 AM EST
    Judges Chambers, Double Jeopardy, Queens Silk, 12 Angry Men...if not the bars around the Temple in London are missing out on a gold mine.

    [ Parent ]
    You could make that into your own (none / 0) (#17)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:53 AM EST
    personal research project.

    Think of the fun.

    [ Parent ]

    Good luck! (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:52:20 AM EST
    My son-in-law is taking the bar in Oregon today and tomorrow.  He's in practice in DC, but he and my daughter are seriously contemplating a move to the Portland area.

    I'm sure he'll be glad when it's over.  Working long hours and then having to study put a crimp in the fun.  They were just married recently.

    [ Parent ]

    break a leg (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    (but dont sue anyone)

    [ Parent ]
    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:17 AM EST
    Are you a glutton for punishment?  Or do you finally understand the Rule Against Perpetuities after all these exams?

    [ Parent ]
    Good luck Steve. (none / 0) (#11)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    Are the different state bars significantly different tests, other than Louisiana?

    [ Parent ]
    Kinda sorta (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:15:16 PM EST
    There is a Multistate exam that is the same in every state, and then most states also have a state-specific portion where you have to write a few essays.  So it's kind of 50% familiar stuff and 50% new stuff.  Since it's been a long time since the last one for me, though, I need a refresher on just about everything.

    I had a friend who used to teach for one of the bar review companies, and part of his job involved traveling around the country and taking as many exams as possible to stay on top of what they were asking.  It was kind of funny, because he would be the only person in the room who wasn't the least bit stressed.

    [ Parent ]

    good luck, Steve! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:57:30 PM EST
    my partner -- 11 years this Sunday! -- is a Partner at Skadden here in NYC (although we're making the move to Paris in September/October so he can start his new job as a SVP at a private bank) and STILL quakes at the memory of taking those "damn things", as he calls them.

    Let us know how it all turns out.  I suspect you're going to do just fine.

    :-)

    [ Parent ]

    ccpup....11 Years is cause for celebration. (none / 0) (#188)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:19:57 PM EST
    Happy Anniversary....and moving to Paris, how cool is that?

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (none / 0) (#32)
    by Claw on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:06:13 PM EST
    I was going to make fun of you until I realized that you must have sat and passed 4 times and in 4 different states.  That's really incredible.  I could only muster enough tolerance to sit once (thankfully the result was good.)  If I need to practice in another state I just pro hac vice it.  Congrats on your success and good luck.
    Since you seem to have sort of a fetish for this, have you taken NY and/or Cali?  Those are still supposed to be the hardest, right?

    [ Parent ]
    NY was pretty hard (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:17:39 PM EST
    at least out of the ones I have taken.  CA is supposedly the hardest of them all.  By comparison, IL - no offense, Sen. Obama! - was child's play.

    Of course, it didn't help that I couldn't take a bar review class for NY since I was in Alaska that summer, and there is no bar review in Alaska since they have no law schools.  Or at least, they didn't back then.  Imagine, a state with no law schools, no wonder it is considered so beautiful and pristine!

    [ Parent ]

    Possibly sheds light. . . (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:23 PM EST
    no bar review in Alaska since they have no law schools.

    on today's breaking headline.

    [ Parent ]

    Steve...should be no problem for you.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:17:00 PM EST
    And aren't there now 57 states? :)

    [ Parent ]
    Ack! (none / 0) (#53)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:51 PM EST
    I forgot about that!

    Of course, if we elect McCain, we might end up trying to add Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon et al. to the empire.  So Obama is a safer bet in my book, assuming 57 is the max.

    [ Parent ]

    I'll Wish You Luck (none / 0) (#201)
    by Jane in CA on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:52:28 PM EST
    although I suspect you don't really need it :)

    O/T -- your posts have been downright hilarious this week.  I love how you have such fun with these subjects -- it makes for an immensely entertaining read for the rest of us as well.

    [ Parent ]

    So (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:46:23 AM EST
    I discovered today that Senator McCain has Arthur Laffer on his economic advisory team.

    If there is a quasi-economist who has caused more mischief in America over the last 30 years than Arthur Laffer, I don't know them.

    Honestly how in the world did he come up with that rag tag group of policy advisers?  Carly Fiorina?  Don Luskin?  WTF?  Are all the legitimate Conservative economists terrified of having McCain tied around their neck?

    They replaced Phil "Whiners" Gramm (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by litigatormom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    with Arthur "Trickle Down" Laffer?  Jeez.

    Continuing the discussion in the thread below about Obama running mates (that thread is already locked even though it has fewer than 200 comments), I am saddened to see that Biden is the only arguably "liberal" contender, and as Jeralyn points out, he's taken some not very liberal positions.

    Kaine is unacceptable.  Fine for a Virginia governor, not fine for VP. No faith-based opponents of a woman's right to choose. Period.

    Bayh?  What does he have going for him except the extremely slim possibility of helping Obama to carry Indiana?  I've heard he's a real dolt.  And he does nothing for Obama on foreign policy cred -- or has Obama concluded that his recent European trip has "cured" this problem?

    Of these three, Biden would be my pick, just because I do think he would be better than the other two on reproductive freedom, and he is seen as having foreign policy expertise. I'd rather have him, gaffe-prone and bloviating as he is, be president if something happened to Obama, as opposed to the other two. I don't care for either Sebellius (most. boring. SOTU. response. ever.) or McCaskill (gggggrrrrr...). But why not Jack Reed of Rhode Island? Why not Richardson? Is there some notion that you can't have two candidates of color on one ticket?  And, yes, why not Clinton?  She has baggage, to be sure, but she also has enormous strengths.

    [ Parent ]

    Kaine is pro-choice (none / 0) (#89)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:29:36 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I thought there were rumblings (none / 0) (#141)
    by litigatormom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:08:51 PM EST
    that he had religious qualms about it. I guess if it doesn't affect his public policy positions, it's okay.  I still don't see what he brings to the ticket.  He's got no foreign policy experience, and I'm not sanguine about his ability to help Obama carry Virginia.

    [ Parent ]
    No...he isn't. (none / 0) (#142)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:11:48 PM EST
    From his own website:

    I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:

    Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;

    Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;

    Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and

    Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.

    Too often politicians are interested in scoring political points, rather than in reducing the number of abortions. Many of the legislative proposals introduced in the General Assembly, like the ones to require unnecessary building standards for doctor's offices that perform abortions, are just political grandstanding. They encourage division and lawsuits rather than contributing to the goal of reducing abortions.

    [ Parent ]

    Aha, Kaine uses a wingnut dogwhistle (none / 0) (#150)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:10:12 PM EST
    aka "partial birth abortion."

    Yep, not a good pick for the ticket.  There aren't enough fundies who would come over to compensate for the real libruls who would have to leave that lever alone.


    [ Parent ]

    You do realize (none / 0) (#155)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:15:43 PM EST
    that nothing you just quoted indicates that he isn't pro-choice, right?

    [ Parent ]
    Don't you know (none / 0) (#170)
    by samanthasmom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:01:40 PM EST
    that anyone who doesn't stand out in front of an abortion clinic and stop women from entering is "pro-choice enough"? Narrowing the restrictions so that only a woman suffering from a terminal illness that would render her dead before the fetus was viable, and then only allowing the abortion to take place on alternate Tuesdays in months that have an "R" in them, is still pro-choice?

    [ Parent ]
    Not if he's just talking personally (none / 0) (#174)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:05:11 PM EST
    Kaine is personally pro-life, and legislatively pro-choice. In that respect, he is no different from John Kerry and Bill Clinton.

    [ Parent ]
    I have no problem (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by samanthasmom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:11:39 PM EST
    with a politician who says that he would like abortions to be "rare". But the way you get there, if you are pro-choice, is to make pregnancy easy to avoid, which abstinence-based sex education hardly promotes, or to put in place the supports that a woman would need to continue the pregnancy. There should be few restrictions placed on a woman's right to choose an abortion. It should be a decision between her and her doctor -period. Any other position that a politician takes is "squishy". Obama is "squishy". Kaine is "squishier".

    [ Parent ]
    They are terrified of 2008 (none / 0) (#8)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:47:33 AM EST
    and shameful about the last 8 years of mismanagement and/or theft.

    [ Parent ]
    I saw (none / 0) (#49)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:20:34 PM EST
    a good interview with Laffer a little while back.

    Don't look for the media to press Republicans on the fact that not a single economist actually claims tax cuts pay for themselves.

    [ Parent ]

    Ted Stevens indicted! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:52:12 AM EST


    Wow, really?!! (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    Hurray!!

    [ Parent ]
    Yep- (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:56 AM EST
    7 criminal counts-msnbc breaking news.

    [ Parent ]
    Another one (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:17 AM EST
    bites the dust.

    It's a small victory compared to Bush/Cheney, but I'll take it.

    [ Parent ]

    Another GOPer (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:57:07 AM EST
    To add to the loong list at TPM's Grand Ole Docket

    [ Parent ]
    The headline is all we have, save (none / 0) (#15)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:53:44 AM EST
    this link.

    More follows later, I'm sure.

    [ Parent ]

    Yep. (none / 0) (#16)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:21 AM EST
    Breaking news at the MSNBC website!!

    [ Parent ]
    Can Don Young (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:57:06 AM EST
    be far behind?

    [ Parent ]
    Is he starting (none / 0) (#31)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:03:42 PM EST
    to sweat?  :)

    [ Parent ]
    excellent (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:55:46 AM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Ted Stevens.....read it and weep (none / 0) (#38)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:29 PM EST
    link

    [ Parent ]
    Surprise! (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:01:05 PM EST
    Obama and McCain both have ties to lobbyists!

    LINK

    Surprise #2! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:13:17 PM EST
    The story about McCain's buddies supposedly preventing Obama from visiting the hospital was also false.

    Imagine that.

    Pie....adding to that (none / 0) (#47)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:38 PM EST
    link

    [ Parent ]
    Obama ought to have gone on his own (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:32 PM EST
    without his campaign adviser and gotten past the bit of pique about the Pentagon's message.

    A president has to get past a lot of pique, I suspect.  The way to do it is to remember that it's not all about the president.  Or the Pentagon.  

    [ Parent ]

    The bottom of it (none / 0) (#54)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:23:25 PM EST
    Appears to me in this article.

    Pretty good explanation of what happened.  Whether or not it is a good "excuse" I leave to the reader to decide.

    [ Parent ]

    Here's what the article (none / 0) (#59)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:31:25 PM EST
    I posted said at the end:

    If the story behind the story of the canceled troop visit has run its course, one question remains: Why didn't Mr. Obama leave his aides behind, even the retired general, and make the visit by himself?

    "Even him going alone would likely be characterized by some as a political event," Mr. Gibbs said in an interview on Monday, adding, "He decided not to put the troops in that position."

    What a guy.

    [ Parent ]

    Um... (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:27:15 PM EST
    You do realize that Obama has visited wounded troops before, right?

    Reporters were not allowed to accompany him when he visited wounded troops at Walter Reed Medical Center on June 28. The small "protective pool" of reporters that routinely accompanies him was told by Obama's staff to remain outside, in the van, according to a reporter covering the campaign. Similarly, Obama visited wounded troops in Baghdad earlier in his overseas trip, but he did so without reporters and "without a lot of fanfare, just to say 'Thanks'," according to Democratic Sen. Jack Reed of Rhode Island, who accompanied Obama.


    [ Parent ]
    Easy on those facts... (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:26:09 PM EST
    we're playing "gotcha" over here and you will spoil the fun:)

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, well (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    the issue was the silly story that somehow McCain's cronies prevented him from making his altruistic visit to the hospital.

    I was glad that few if any people here bit on that one.

    Obama also could have gone anyway.  I don't buy the excuse.

    Whatev.

    [ Parent ]

    It's all nonsense to me.... (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
    I really don't care about how often the candidates visit wounded soldiers...another distraction from the issues tactic.

    What I do care about is electing a leader who will stop all these soldiers from getting maimed and killed...sadly I don't see one who has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

    [ Parent ]

    That article is (none / 0) (#60)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:33:51 PM EST
    your article.

    [ Parent ]
    Haha (none / 0) (#69)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:52:20 PM EST
    Oops.  I just realized that yours was just a re-printing of the same one.

    [ Parent ]
    Richard Cohen asking questions (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:13:42 PM EST
    about Obama's resume.  

    The crack in the armor is growing a bit.

    I'm not fond of Cohen, but (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:46 PM EST
    to iive credit where credit is due, this is clever writing that well encapsulates a common critique:

    I know that Barack Obama is a near-perfect political package. I'm still not sure, though, what's in it.


    [ Parent ]
    Is His Judgment Better on Obama (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:45:05 PM EST
    than it was on Hillary Clinton during the campaign?

    Remember this?

    Cohen on Clinton

    "But with Clinton, it's a different story. She planted her foot in the unforgiving pitch of self-caricature. Now, about 60 percent of the electorate doubts her honesty. The image has hardened. She wants to become president so badly that she has made the goal more important than how she gets there -- and now she has rendered herself incapable of doing an essential part of the job."

    I do. And even though I was not a Clinton supporter, I was infuriated by it.

    Until I remembered: "It's Richard Cohen, the irrelevant."


    [ Parent ]

    Yeh, as I said -- I'm not fond of Cohen (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:02:38 PM EST
    in part because of that columns and others on Clinton.  On both Clintons.  And other good folks, too.

    So out of thousands of column inches from Cohen, I like two sentences.  I think he's overpaid. :-)

    [ Parent ]

    Oh ye of little faith (none / 0) (#65)
    by standingup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:46:15 PM EST
    Doesn't Cohen understand we faith only requires that we believe?  Knowledge is not a requisite for faith in Obama and change we can believe in.  

    Seriously though, these are questions that would have served Democrats better in the primaries.  Cohen and the Republicans were more than happy that they were dismissed and left to be used by them in the general.

    [ Parent ]

    New Gallup poll today (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:34 PM EST
    Today's Gallup number is 6 point lead for Obama.

    The media went crazy talking about the 9 point lead from Sunday in this Gallup poll.  So much so that they continued to talk about the 9 point lead even after the poll was published on Monday with an 8 point lead instead of 9.  

    Do you suppose they will spend anywhere near as much time tonight examining the drop to 8 on Monday and now dropping further to 6 today?  

    Especially since Rassmusen also dropped from 3 yesterday to 1 today.

    And of course there is the "poll who dares not speak its name that shows McCain leading by 4 points"

    That contradicts (none / 0) (#97)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:51:40 PM EST
    everything I see on teebee.  The reviews on his trip (I expected the media to be focused on his trip the whole week, but is not)... Dem talking heads come on and say it improved his image, but the polls don't seem to be tracking with that.  Still too early, have to wait and see how the candidates go after eachother.

    and No, they won't be covering the shift in the polls.

    [ Parent ]

    yep, i know (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:59:38 PM EST
    On Monday all th epundits were still talking about Sunday's 9 point lead even though new polls had already come out for Monday.  They just didn't like Monday's polls as well as they did the Sunday poll.  So, they just pretended the new polls didn't exist.

    [ Parent ]
    I find it fascinating (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    that no one in the States is aware that two popular rock groups (well, one more jazz than rock) "opened" for Obama in Berlin and that people immediately started drifting away before and during Obama's speech after the bands left.

    The fantasy is, of course, that The One attracted 200,000 over-excited people.  The reality is that a potentially solid chunk of the audience came for a free concert and hung around to hear the speech.  Or left.

    My European friends still shake their heads in wonder at the gullibility of so many in the States.

    [ Parent ]

    maybe that's because (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:08 PM EST
    the press doesn't bother to report it accurately.  Becuase, maybe they are afraid that Obama won't let them come on the next trip if they report something he doesn't like.....

    It's amazing how punishing one reporter. like Lizza from the New Yorker, gets the others to get back in line for a while anyways....

    [ Parent ]

    it makes one wonder (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:55:08 PM EST
    just how strong, truly, Obama's Candidacy is if the reporters traveling with him are either aware that reporting the strong possibility that some of the crowd -- not all, mind you, but some -- might have been there for the free concert and not The One or, perhaps, these same reporters are being subtly directed by the campaign to not report fairly innocuous facts like having two bands open for him.

    A strong candidate wouldn't worry about possibly sharing the bill with two rock bands.  It's the LACK of reporting it that makes bigger news as people are apt to wonder why it wasn't reported in the first place.  To not report something as simple as that and be caught after the fact diminishes something (the size of the crowd) that doesn't have to be diminished if someone's ego wasn't afraid of being bruised.

    It's always the cover-up that gets you in the end.  

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly! (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:48:12 PM EST
    Because surely none of the millions of Americans living overseas live in Germany or thereabouts.  And even if they did, as potential voters, they would not have any interest in coming to see the presumptive Democratic nominee for President.

    [ Parent ]
    Don't forget the free beer & food (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by angie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:47:09 PM EST
    that the Obama camp served to go along with the 2 concerts -- I've heard the reports myself on the Greek channels I get via satellite. Also, estimates of the #s in Germany were a lot lower then 200,000 (like, a whole "0" less). Seems nobody cares over here.

    [ Parent ]
    free beer and food? (5.00 / 0) (#160)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:41:12 PM EST
    heck, he could get a whole crowd of Evangelicals to turn out for him if he offered that here.

    :-)

    [ Parent ]

    CCPup...my pastor's wife always used to (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:25:26 PM EST
    say "if you want people to show up, make sure you have food".

    [ Parent ]
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    "If you do not wish to make a donation, you can still be selected to join Barack at the Democratic National Convention in Denver. Learn more here."
    ---------------------------------------------
    Why it's just like any other "contest" where they have to allow non-contributors to think they also have a chance of winning.

    Maybe they should hire Ed McMahon (I hear he needs the work) to do the promotion for this event.  He understands how this works from his days pimping for Publisher's Clearing House.

    I should also say this seemed real tacky to me when I heard it last night for the first time.  It just sounded like they had gotten desperate enough that they now wanted to start charging money to allow you to maybe get close enough to touch "him".

    LOL indeed. (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Perhaps Ed could also promote Hillary's "Have a meal with Hillary" raffle...

    "Let's go to dinner!  Contribute now, and you and I could be enjoying a Summer dinner soon!"

    !!11!

    But that's different, right?  Not at all desperate or tacky.

    [ Parent ]

    I haven't heard that one yet.... (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:03:12 PM EST
    But, It's just as tacky in my opinion.

    Maybe the DNC could set the two of them up in tents and just sell tickets out front like they do at the travelling carnival.

    [ Parent ]

    Doesn't matter to me... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:15:27 PM EST
    ...neither one of them will be getting a dime from me.  Just can't rationalize giving money to multi-millionaires.  

    My donations go to the local food bank, the local meal-on-wheels and the like.  People that are trying to make a real difference in the World.

    [ Parent ]

    hear hear (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:45:01 PM EST
    I started to write a check to Obama several months ago and before i could get it in the mail i talked myself out of it.  Giving money to millionaires while kids in this country don't have enough to eat.  I went  to the grocery store and bought a few hundred dollars of groceries for my mom's foster kids instead.  Felt a heck of a lot better about it too....

    [ Parent ]
    Amen brother.... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:23:56 PM EST
    People making a difference get mines too...not people making a career and connections and a cash-out for themselves.

    [ Parent ]
    close enough to touch "him" (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:25:40 PM EST
    maybe just the hem of his garment.  oh wait.  I forgot.  the emperor has no garments.

    [ Parent ]
    I asked my wife (none / 0) (#80)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:22:40 PM EST
    if she would be interested in winning a chance to go backstage with Obama in Denver.  She seemed to be up for it.

    "Maybe he'll do a fist bump with us!" I said.

    She asked, "What do we get if we donate to pay off Hillary's debt instead?"

    "I hear you win a chance to have dinner with Mark Penn," I replied.

    She didn't get that one.

    [ Parent ]

    maybe it would entice her more.... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    if you said at the end of dinner with Mark, you are allowed to hit him over the head with something.

    [ Parent ]
    or if you showed her a picture (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:26:27 PM EST
    grrrrrrr

    [ Parent ]
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:28:29 PM EST
    We have a little girl.  I try not to keep things around the house that will give her nightmares.

    [ Parent ]
    TimNC....No purchase necessary for the (none / 0) (#194)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:26:50 PM EST
    chance to touch the hem of his garment :)

    [ Parent ]
    heres something to cheer you up (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:27:07 PM EST
        The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.

    Nor would they be surprised at the shooter's reading material:

        Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.

    All I can say is.... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
    thank good it was a crazy white guy...if it was a crazy brown guy the terror alert would be raised to magenta...or maybe burnt sienna?

    [ Parent ]
    seafoam (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:42 PM EST
    for white guys.

    [ Parent ]
    They just haven't found... (none / 0) (#91)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:31:59 PM EST
    ...his stash of Coulter and Malkin porn with the stuck together pages hidden in a shoe box under the bed.

    [ Parent ]
    I Dunno (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    More like these kind of men, um.. save their vital essence aka can't get it up. Rememb