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    Anybody see the clip.... (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:39:06 AM EST
    of that wanna-be NFL NYPD goon tackling that poor cyclist for no reason.

    Woulda got away with it too, and pinned an assault rap on the victim...if it wasn't for those meddling kids and their youtube.  Link

    They'll give any droog a badge and a gun....but what do you expect for less than 30k a year.

    Yes (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:45:59 AM EST
    And I was not surprised by it, sadly.  At least he was stripped of his badge and gun, pending an investigation. Thank Apollo for videos, otherwise the cyclist would still be in jail, the hospital, or a grave.


    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#26)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:58:54 AM EST
    I'd like to see all the details of this story when it's over.

    From MSNBC...

    "The biker, Christopher Long, of Hoboken, N.J., was arrested because he was obstructing traffic in the heart of Times Square, a criminal complaint said. He was charged with attempted assault, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

    The complaint said Long, 29, deliberately steered his bicycle into the officer, causing both of them to fall to the ground.

    During his arrest, Long squirmed and kicked, saying to the officers, "You are pawns in the game. I'm gonna have your job," the complaint said.

    There were no other arrests during the ride.

    Long's lawyer, David Rankin, said he hopes the Manhattan district attorney's office will drop the charges. The district attorney's office said it was investigating.

    Long's next court date was set for Sept. 5."

    Parent

    Watch the video. (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:02:11 PM EST
    It tells a different story.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:08:05 PM EST
    I'm just telling what's being reported.  That's why I want to hear the whole story at some point, because the video is only a portion of the complete story. Maybe the biker provoked the cop, maybe the cop is a rogue and should be fired.  But we all know that videos like this on YouTube never tell the whole story - so let's wait and see.

    Parent
    Watch the clip.... (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:08:25 PM EST
    I guess by assault they mean riding your bike and allowing yourself to be savagely tackled to the pavement.  If that's assault, I'm an astronaut.

    Resisting is a human instinct to being assaulted.  Some goon jumps on you, protecting yourself cannot be a crime.

    And I woulda said a lot worse to that animal if I was on the receiving end of his brutality.

    Besides, the courts have already decided the protest group doesn't need a permit to hold their bike rides.  

    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:11:07 PM EST
    Wow, Not sure why you would be parroting the Police version of the story, considering NYC police policy on the monthly Critical Mass bike rides.

    Critical Mass, a bicycle ride normally held on the last Friday of each month as a form of protest against reliance on vehicles and bicyclist/motorist relations, has been a long standing irritation to the New York Police Department.

    Although attempts by New York City to ban the event have failed in court, the tradition has created a somewhat adversarial relationship between the riders and NYPD officers who detest the event.

    link


    Parent

    All I said was (none / 0) (#37)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:17 PM EST
    Do you know what went on before the camera started rolling?

    Parent
    What could have possibly gone on..... (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:18:46 PM EST
    to justify that?

    If there was any kind of bullsh*t justification the NYPD could peddle, they would.  But they can't cuz there is none...the goon claimed he was the one who was assaulted for christ's sake!

    Parent

    My Point Exactly (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:16:56 PM EST
    Before the camera was rolling the NYC police had contempt for these people. Well documented, contempt.

    Parent
    Apparently. . . (none / 0) (#48)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:52 PM EST
    the video shows the encounter from before the bicyclist came on the scene.

    Parent
    Geez, the cyclist (none / 0) (#27)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:59:34 AM EST
    was an Army veteran?

    Parent
    Wow. (none / 0) (#68)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:58 PM EST
    Assuming the cop is human, I cannot imagine how he rationalized his actions.

    iow, how he told himself "My duty, either morally or due my badge, is to just F this random dude up."

    Even if there had been something wrong or illegal or something the cyclist did off-camera, unless he was trying to escape a bank robbery with a bag of $1000 bills over his shoulder I can't imagine a scenario where a cop could just do that.

    It will be interesting to hear his version of the story.

    Parent

    Never mind. (none / 0) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:04:31 PM EST
    The cop's side of the story is here.He's a lying slug. Buh bye.

    Parent
    A very likely... (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    and believable story though...if there was no video.

    No videotape and this victim of assault likely gets put through the criminal justice ringer....fines, lawyer fees, maybe a little jail...the whole nine.

    As much as I can't stand the camera-fication of society, it does have a bright side:)

    Parent

    His version... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:06:35 PM EST
    from the NY Daily News.

    In court documents, Pogan said he saw Long weaving in and out of lanes and obstructing traffic before he ordered the cyclist to stop. The cop claimed Long deliberately drove his bike into him, sending both of them falling to the ground. Pogan claimed to have suffered cuts from the impact.

    Looks like the officer is a big fat liar.  

    Parent

    Well, he didn't ook that fat (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:00:20 PM EST
    but you sure got the rest of that right.

    Parent
    Tomorrow (5.00 / 6) (#2)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:44 AM EST
    I am taking the bar exam.

    It is my fourth bar exam!

    Wish me luck.  Only 46 states to go, unless we admit Puerto Rico in the meantime.

    jesus that's rough (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:45:10 AM EST
    my wife took one in Az. And now she's going to Cal to take that one.

    Parent
    Best of luck. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:46:46 AM EST
    I, too, expect to be before the bar tonight albeit in a somewhat different capacity.

    Parent
    Me Too (none / 0) (#9)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:49:15 AM EST
    Lots of states to go..

    Parent
    Vacation starts this weekend (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:49 AM EST
    I'll be fishing at a remote, though reachable-by-car, site in the Great White North.  Beer.  Fishing.  And more beer.

    Parent
    Will you BYOB (none / 0) (#28)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:00:57 PM EST
    Or are you going to depend on the local fare? Is it legal to cross the border with beer?

    Parent
    I had a co-worker who would..... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:07:48 PM EST
    ....routinely hire a bartender to accompany them on extended family vacations. The bartender got a free trip and was generally the designated driver.

    Parent
    Sounds Smart (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:29 PM EST
    If you like to be served mixed drinks.. and have a sober driver.

    Parent
    Go to Canada, (none / 0) (#74)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:09:07 PM EST
    buy Canadian beer.

    They have a neat deal (or have on recent years' trips):  Buy a case of one of the local (not exported) brands at the price of 24 bottles (deposit bottles) and the case comes with 28 bottles.  I call it a "fisherman's case" of beer.

    IIRC, one can cross the border with some (relatively small) amount of beer, or buy it at the duty-free at the border crossing.  We wait b/c we perceive the price works out better both in actual dollars and gas-spent-hauling-the-extra-weight.  Plus, one can't drink in a car in Canada anyway (and a DWI, here or there, can keep you out of the country in future - they consider it a pretty serious crime), so why hurry.

    Parent

    Sounds Like A Great Trip (none / 0) (#78)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:16:06 PM EST
    Enjoy! I get pleasure out of simply imagining it..  You are bringing the dog, I assume. Dogs need vacations too...


    Parent
    Nope - dog stays home. (none / 0) (#116)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:10:28 PM EST
    1. No room in the car.
    2. No one to look after dog during day.
    3. Long, long drive and dog is disinclined to drives over, say, 2 hours.
    4. Wolves in the neighborhood up there.

    Dog gets to be boarded out in a friend's house, with a couple other dogs to play with.  I'll come home, and dog will look at me like "who are you?"

    Parent
    for Molson Brador back in my misspent college days. Can almost taste them as I type this...

    Parent
    Now (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM EST
    Miller Coors and Moslon are one. These kinds of American beer are not doing well of late.

    Craft brewers up 17% while the rest of the bud type market is flat.

    As Monty Python said, drinking American beer is like making love in a canoe.... It is f'ing close to water.

    Parent

    he says with a wee bit of understatement...

    Parent
    Ahhh- the legendary Brador. (none / 0) (#119)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:18:30 PM EST
    That was always the stuff that was told about in stories of legendary beers which were so superior (in taste, quality, intoxicating power, seduction-facilitating power, or some combination thereof) that only the most resolute of searchers could find and properly enjoy them.  It had always just sold out, and the guy at the beer store offered instead a six pack of the black-on-white cans of the dreaded "generic" Beer or, worse, weeks-stale PBR, to us, the loveable losers who got there 10 minutes too late.

    Never did get a Brador, but the adventures in search of were/are worthy of a moment's recollection.

    Parent

    Too funny, and completely accurate. (none / 0) (#125)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:28:19 PM EST
    I'm guessing you're going after some Canadian fish with big teeth? Sounds like fun.

    Just broke the kids in on bluegills last weekend. They were pulling 'em out of the lake like nobody's business.

    We leave for rural VA on Fri and I am bringing my fly rod...

    Parent

    Bluegills on a fly rod are an absolute blast (none / 0) (#132)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:43:22 PM EST
    I caught (and released) the biggest one I've ever seen (a dinner plate, measured at about an inch short of a state record) on a fly rod with a #12 olive deer-hair caddis.  It took a good 15 minutes to work in and it's one of those fish one never forgets.

    If you cast the fly out for a kid (get it out there and let it sit) and get him/her into a bluegill on it, you're likely to get that kid hooked on fishing for life.  The kid will think he's got Moby Dick or "jaws" on the other end.

    This trip, though, we're going with the old-reliable five-of-diamonds spoons vs. northern pike.  I have to buy a new spoon though - I wore my favorite one out on the last trip.

    Parent

    Yep, the kids loved it. (none / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:57:06 PM EST
    We're staying on the Rappahannock and the internet says it's a good smallmouth area. I've never fished for smallmouth before, most of the streams had trout where I grew up in NJ, but I'm sure we'll get the kids to haul in some bigger fish. Can't wait.

    Parent
    Smallies are a lot of fun, too (none / 0) (#143)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:25:55 PM EST
    IF you get into one on a fly rod, you're in for an adventure.

    Parent
    esp for the kids.

    Parent
    Need a partner in that practice:)...n/t (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:20:43 PM EST
    Sure (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:24:55 PM EST
    The more the merrier.. It is a Pub lic practice after all... cheers!

    Parent
    are there any legal cocktails? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:49:40 AM EST
    Judges Chambers, Double Jeopardy, Queens Silk, 12 Angry Men...if not the bars around the Temple in London are missing out on a gold mine.

    Parent
    You could make that into your own (none / 0) (#17)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:53 AM EST
    personal research project.

    Think of the fun.

    Parent

    Good luck! (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:52:20 AM EST
    My son-in-law is taking the bar in Oregon today and tomorrow.  He's in practice in DC, but he and my daughter are seriously contemplating a move to the Portland area.

    I'm sure he'll be glad when it's over.  Working long hours and then having to study put a crimp in the fun.  They were just married recently.

    Parent

    break a leg (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:55:22 AM EST
    (but dont sue anyone)

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:17 AM EST
    Are you a glutton for punishment?  Or do you finally understand the Rule Against Perpetuities after all these exams?

    Parent
    Good luck Steve. (none / 0) (#11)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:50:39 AM EST
    Are the different state bars significantly different tests, other than Louisiana?

    Parent
    Kinda sorta (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:15:16 PM EST
    There is a Multistate exam that is the same in every state, and then most states also have a state-specific portion where you have to write a few essays.  So it's kind of 50% familiar stuff and 50% new stuff.  Since it's been a long time since the last one for me, though, I need a refresher on just about everything.

    I had a friend who used to teach for one of the bar review companies, and part of his job involved traveling around the country and taking as many exams as possible to stay on top of what they were asking.  It was kind of funny, because he would be the only person in the room who wasn't the least bit stressed.

    Parent

    good luck, Steve! (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:57:30 PM EST
    my partner -- 11 years this Sunday! -- is a Partner at Skadden here in NYC (although we're making the move to Paris in September/October so he can start his new job as a SVP at a private bank) and STILL quakes at the memory of taking those "damn things", as he calls them.

    Let us know how it all turns out.  I suspect you're going to do just fine.

    :-)

    Parent

    ccpup....11 Years is cause for celebration. (none / 0) (#188)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:19:57 PM EST
    Happy Anniversary....and moving to Paris, how cool is that?

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#32)
    by Claw on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:06:13 PM EST
    I was going to make fun of you until I realized that you must have sat and passed 4 times and in 4 different states.  That's really incredible.  I could only muster enough tolerance to sit once (thankfully the result was good.)  If I need to practice in another state I just pro hac vice it.  Congrats on your success and good luck.
    Since you seem to have sort of a fetish for this, have you taken NY and/or Cali?  Those are still supposed to be the hardest, right?

    Parent
    NY was pretty hard (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:17:39 PM EST
    at least out of the ones I have taken.  CA is supposedly the hardest of them all.  By comparison, IL - no offense, Sen. Obama! - was child's play.

    Of course, it didn't help that I couldn't take a bar review class for NY since I was in Alaska that summer, and there is no bar review in Alaska since they have no law schools.  Or at least, they didn't back then.  Imagine, a state with no law schools, no wonder it is considered so beautiful and pristine!

    Parent

    Possibly sheds light. . . (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:23 PM EST
    no bar review in Alaska since they have no law schools.

    on today's breaking headline.

    Parent

    Steve...should be no problem for you.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:17:00 PM EST
    And aren't there now 57 states? :)

    Parent
    Ack! (none / 0) (#53)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:51 PM EST
    I forgot about that!

    Of course, if we elect McCain, we might end up trying to add Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon et al. to the empire.  So Obama is a safer bet in my book, assuming 57 is the max.

    Parent

    I'll Wish You Luck (none / 0) (#201)
    by Jane in CA on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:52:28 PM EST
    although I suspect you don't really need it :)

    O/T -- your posts have been downright hilarious this week.  I love how you have such fun with these subjects -- it makes for an immensely entertaining read for the rest of us as well.

    Parent

    So (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by flyerhawk on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:46:23 AM EST
    I discovered today that Senator McCain has Arthur Laffer on his economic advisory team.

    If there is a quasi-economist who has caused more mischief in America over the last 30 years than Arthur Laffer, I don't know them.

    Honestly how in the world did he come up with that rag tag group of policy advisers?  Carly Fiorina?  Don Luskin?  WTF?  Are all the legitimate Conservative economists terrified of having McCain tied around their neck?

    They replaced Phil "Whiners" Gramm (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by litigatormom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:42:27 PM EST
    with Arthur "Trickle Down" Laffer?  Jeez.

    Continuing the discussion in the thread below about Obama running mates (that thread is already locked even though it has fewer than 200 comments), I am saddened to see that Biden is the only arguably "liberal" contender, and as Jeralyn points out, he's taken some not very liberal positions.

    Kaine is unacceptable.  Fine for a Virginia governor, not fine for VP. No faith-based opponents of a woman's right to choose. Period.

    Bayh?  What does he have going for him except the extremely slim possibility of helping Obama to carry Indiana?  I've heard he's a real dolt.  And he does nothing for Obama on foreign policy cred -- or has Obama concluded that his recent European trip has "cured" this problem?

    Of these three, Biden would be my pick, just because I do think he would be better than the other two on reproductive freedom, and he is seen as having foreign policy expertise. I'd rather have him, gaffe-prone and bloviating as he is, be president if something happened to Obama, as opposed to the other two. I don't care for either Sebellius (most. boring. SOTU. response. ever.) or McCaskill (gggggrrrrr...). But why not Jack Reed of Rhode Island? Why not Richardson? Is there some notion that you can't have two candidates of color on one ticket?  And, yes, why not Clinton?  She has baggage, to be sure, but she also has enormous strengths.

    Parent

    Kaine is pro-choice (none / 0) (#89)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:29:36 PM EST
    I thought there were rumblings (none / 0) (#141)
    by litigatormom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:08:51 PM EST
    that he had religious qualms about it. I guess if it doesn't affect his public policy positions, it's okay.  I still don't see what he brings to the ticket.  He's got no foreign policy experience, and I'm not sanguine about his ability to help Obama carry Virginia.

    Parent
    No...he isn't. (none / 0) (#142)
    by americanincanada on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:11:48 PM EST
    From his own website:

    I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:

    Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;

    Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;

    Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and

    Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.

    Too often politicians are interested in scoring political points, rather than in reducing the number of abortions. Many of the legislative proposals introduced in the General Assembly, like the ones to require unnecessary building standards for doctor's offices that perform abortions, are just political grandstanding. They encourage division and lawsuits rather than contributing to the goal of reducing abortions.

    Parent

    Aha, Kaine uses a wingnut dogwhistle (none / 0) (#150)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:10:12 PM EST
    aka "partial birth abortion."

    Yep, not a good pick for the ticket.  There aren't enough fundies who would come over to compensate for the real libruls who would have to leave that lever alone.


    Parent

    You do realize (none / 0) (#155)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:15:43 PM EST
    that nothing you just quoted indicates that he isn't pro-choice, right?

    Parent
    Don't you know (none / 0) (#170)
    by samanthasmom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:01:40 PM EST
    that anyone who doesn't stand out in front of an abortion clinic and stop women from entering is "pro-choice enough"? Narrowing the restrictions so that only a woman suffering from a terminal illness that would render her dead before the fetus was viable, and then only allowing the abortion to take place on alternate Tuesdays in months that have an "R" in them, is still pro-choice?

    Parent
    Not if he's just talking personally (none / 0) (#174)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:05:11 PM EST
    Kaine is personally pro-life, and legislatively pro-choice. In that respect, he is no different from John Kerry and Bill Clinton.

    Parent
    I have no problem (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by samanthasmom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:11:39 PM EST
    with a politician who says that he would like abortions to be "rare". But the way you get there, if you are pro-choice, is to make pregnancy easy to avoid, which abstinence-based sex education hardly promotes, or to put in place the supports that a woman would need to continue the pregnancy. There should be few restrictions placed on a woman's right to choose an abortion. It should be a decision between her and her doctor -period. Any other position that a politician takes is "squishy". Obama is "squishy". Kaine is "squishier".

    Parent
    They are terrified of 2008 (none / 0) (#8)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:47:33 AM EST
    and shameful about the last 8 years of mismanagement and/or theft.

    Parent
    I saw (none / 0) (#49)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:20:34 PM EST
    a good interview with Laffer a little while back.

    Don't look for the media to press Republicans on the fact that not a single economist actually claims tax cuts pay for themselves.

    Parent

    Ted Stevens indicted! (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:52:12 AM EST


    Wow, really?!! (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    Hurray!!

    Parent
    Yep- (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:56 AM EST
    7 criminal counts-msnbc breaking news.

    Parent
    Another one (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:17 AM EST
    bites the dust.

    It's a small victory compared to Bush/Cheney, but I'll take it.

    Parent

    Another GOPer (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:57:07 AM EST
    To add to the loong list at TPM's Grand Ole Docket

    Parent
    The headline is all we have, save (none / 0) (#15)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:53:44 AM EST
    this link.

    More follows later, I'm sure.

    Parent

    Yep. (none / 0) (#16)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:21 AM EST
    Breaking news at the MSNBC website!!

    Parent
    Can Don Young (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by magisterludi on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:57:06 AM EST
    be far behind?

    Parent
    Is he starting (none / 0) (#31)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:03:42 PM EST
    to sweat?  :)

    Parent
    excellent (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:55:46 AM EST
    Ted Stevens.....read it and weep (none / 0) (#38)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:12:29 PM EST
    Surprise! (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:01:05 PM EST
    Obama and McCain both have ties to lobbyists!

    LINK

    Surprise #2! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:13:17 PM EST
    The story about McCain's buddies supposedly preventing Obama from visiting the hospital was also false.

    Imagine that.

    Pie....adding to that (none / 0) (#47)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:38 PM EST
    Obama ought to have gone on his own (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:32 PM EST
    without his campaign adviser and gotten past the bit of pique about the Pentagon's message.

    A president has to get past a lot of pique, I suspect.  The way to do it is to remember that it's not all about the president.  Or the Pentagon.  

    Parent

    The bottom of it (none / 0) (#54)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:23:25 PM EST
    Appears to me in this article.

    Pretty good explanation of what happened.  Whether or not it is a good "excuse" I leave to the reader to decide.

    Parent

    Here's what the article (none / 0) (#59)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:31:25 PM EST
    I posted said at the end:

    If the story behind the story of the canceled troop visit has run its course, one question remains: Why didn't Mr. Obama leave his aides behind, even the retired general, and make the visit by himself?

    "Even him going alone would likely be characterized by some as a political event," Mr. Gibbs said in an interview on Monday, adding, "He decided not to put the troops in that position."

    What a guy.

    Parent

    Um... (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by nr22 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:27:15 PM EST
    You do realize that Obama has visited wounded troops before, right?

    Reporters were not allowed to accompany him when he visited wounded troops at Walter Reed Medical Center on June 28. The small "protective pool" of reporters that routinely accompanies him was told by Obama's staff to remain outside, in the van, according to a reporter covering the campaign. Similarly, Obama visited wounded troops in Baghdad earlier in his overseas trip, but he did so without reporters and "without a lot of fanfare, just to say 'Thanks'," according to Democratic Sen. Jack Reed of Rhode Island, who accompanied Obama.


    Parent
    Easy on those facts... (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:26:09 PM EST
    we're playing "gotcha" over here and you will spoil the fun:)

    Parent
    Yes, well (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    the issue was the silly story that somehow McCain's cronies prevented him from making his altruistic visit to the hospital.

    I was glad that few if any people here bit on that one.

    Obama also could have gone anyway.  I don't buy the excuse.

    Whatev.

    Parent

    It's all nonsense to me.... (none / 0) (#135)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:49:00 PM EST
    I really don't care about how often the candidates visit wounded soldiers...another distraction from the issues tactic.

    What I do care about is electing a leader who will stop all these soldiers from getting maimed and killed...sadly I don't see one who has a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

    Parent

    That article is (none / 0) (#60)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:33:51 PM EST
    your article.

    Parent
    Haha (none / 0) (#69)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:52:20 PM EST
    Oops.  I just realized that yours was just a re-printing of the same one.

    Parent
    Richard Cohen asking questions (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by cmugirl on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:13:42 PM EST
    about Obama's resume.  

    The crack in the armor is growing a bit.

    I'm not fond of Cohen, but (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:22:46 PM EST
    to iive credit where credit is due, this is clever writing that well encapsulates a common critique:

    I know that Barack Obama is a near-perfect political package. I'm still not sure, though, what's in it.


    Parent
    Is His Judgment Better on Obama (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:45:05 PM EST
    than it was on Hillary Clinton during the campaign?

    Remember this?

    Cohen on Clinton

    "But with Clinton, it's a different story. She planted her foot in the unforgiving pitch of self-caricature. Now, about 60 percent of the electorate doubts her honesty. The image has hardened. She wants to become president so badly that she has made the goal more important than how she gets there -- and now she has rendered herself incapable of doing an essential part of the job."

    I do. And even though I was not a Clinton supporter, I was infuriated by it.

    Until I remembered: "It's Richard Cohen, the irrelevant."


    Parent

    Yeh, as I said -- I'm not fond of Cohen (5.00 / 0) (#149)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:02:38 PM EST
    in part because of that columns and others on Clinton.  On both Clintons.  And other good folks, too.

    So out of thousands of column inches from Cohen, I like two sentences.  I think he's overpaid. :-)

    Parent

    Oh ye of little faith (none / 0) (#65)
    by standingup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:46:15 PM EST
    Doesn't Cohen understand we faith only requires that we believe?  Knowledge is not a requisite for faith in Obama and change we can believe in.  

    Seriously though, these are questions that would have served Democrats better in the primaries.  Cohen and the Republicans were more than happy that they were dismissed and left to be used by them in the general.

    Parent

    New Gallup poll today (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:34 PM EST
    Today's Gallup number is 6 point lead for Obama.

    The media went crazy talking about the 9 point lead from Sunday in this Gallup poll.  So much so that they continued to talk about the 9 point lead even after the poll was published on Monday with an 8 point lead instead of 9.  

    Do you suppose they will spend anywhere near as much time tonight examining the drop to 8 on Monday and now dropping further to 6 today?  

    Especially since Rassmusen also dropped from 3 yesterday to 1 today.

    And of course there is the "poll who dares not speak its name that shows McCain leading by 4 points"

    That contradicts (none / 0) (#97)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:51:40 PM EST
    everything I see on teebee.  The reviews on his trip (I expected the media to be focused on his trip the whole week, but is not)... Dem talking heads come on and say it improved his image, but the polls don't seem to be tracking with that.  Still too early, have to wait and see how the candidates go after eachother.

    and No, they won't be covering the shift in the polls.

    Parent

    yep, i know (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:59:38 PM EST
    On Monday all th epundits were still talking about Sunday's 9 point lead even though new polls had already come out for Monday.  They just didn't like Monday's polls as well as they did the Sunday poll.  So, they just pretended the new polls didn't exist.

    Parent
    I find it fascinating (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:04:02 PM EST
    that no one in the States is aware that two popular rock groups (well, one more jazz than rock) "opened" for Obama in Berlin and that people immediately started drifting away before and during Obama's speech after the bands left.

    The fantasy is, of course, that The One attracted 200,000 over-excited people.  The reality is that a potentially solid chunk of the audience came for a free concert and hung around to hear the speech.  Or left.

    My European friends still shake their heads in wonder at the gullibility of so many in the States.

    Parent

    maybe that's because (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:08 PM EST
    the press doesn't bother to report it accurately.  Becuase, maybe they are afraid that Obama won't let them come on the next trip if they report something he doesn't like.....

    It's amazing how punishing one reporter. like Lizza from the New Yorker, gets the others to get back in line for a while anyways....

    Parent

    it makes one wonder (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:55:08 PM EST
    just how strong, truly, Obama's Candidacy is if the reporters traveling with him are either aware that reporting the strong possibility that some of the crowd -- not all, mind you, but some -- might have been there for the free concert and not The One or, perhaps, these same reporters are being subtly directed by the campaign to not report fairly innocuous facts like having two bands open for him.

    A strong candidate wouldn't worry about possibly sharing the bill with two rock bands.  It's the LACK of reporting it that makes bigger news as people are apt to wonder why it wasn't reported in the first place.  To not report something as simple as that and be caught after the fact diminishes something (the size of the crowd) that doesn't have to be diminished if someone's ego wasn't afraid of being bruised.

    It's always the cover-up that gets you in the end.  

    Parent

    Exactly! (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:48:12 PM EST
    Because surely none of the millions of Americans living overseas live in Germany or thereabouts.  And even if they did, as potential voters, they would not have any interest in coming to see the presumptive Democratic nominee for President.

    Parent
    Don't forget the free beer & food (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by angie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:47:09 PM EST
    that the Obama camp served to go along with the 2 concerts -- I've heard the reports myself on the Greek channels I get via satellite. Also, estimates of the #s in Germany were a lot lower then 200,000 (like, a whole "0" less). Seems nobody cares over here.

    Parent
    free beer and food? (5.00 / 0) (#160)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:41:12 PM EST
    heck, he could get a whole crowd of Evangelicals to turn out for him if he offered that here.

    :-)

    Parent

    CCPup...my pastor's wife always used to (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:25:26 PM EST
    say "if you want people to show up, make sure you have food".

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    "If you do not wish to make a donation, you can still be selected to join Barack at the Democratic National Convention in Denver. Learn more here."
    ---------------------------------------------
    Why it's just like any other "contest" where they have to allow non-contributors to think they also have a chance of winning.

    Maybe they should hire Ed McMahon (I hear he needs the work) to do the promotion for this event.  He understands how this works from his days pimping for Publisher's Clearing House.

    I should also say this seemed real tacky to me when I heard it last night for the first time.  It just sounded like they had gotten desperate enough that they now wanted to start charging money to allow you to maybe get close enough to touch "him".


    LOL indeed. (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:00:10 PM EST
    Perhaps Ed could also promote Hillary's "Have a meal with Hillary" raffle...

    "Let's go to dinner!  Contribute now, and you and I could be enjoying a Summer dinner soon!"

    !!11!

    But that's different, right?  Not at all desperate or tacky.

    Parent

    I haven't heard that one yet.... (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:03:12 PM EST
    But, It's just as tacky in my opinion.

    Maybe the DNC could set the two of them up in tents and just sell tickets out front like they do at the travelling carnival.

    Parent

    Doesn't matter to me... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:15:27 PM EST
    ...neither one of them will be getting a dime from me.  Just can't rationalize giving money to multi-millionaires.  

    My donations go to the local food bank, the local meal-on-wheels and the like.  People that are trying to make a real difference in the World.

    Parent

    hear hear (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:45:01 PM EST
    I started to write a check to Obama several months ago and before i could get it in the mail i talked myself out of it.  Giving money to millionaires while kids in this country don't have enough to eat.  I went  to the grocery store and bought a few hundred dollars of groceries for my mom's foster kids instead.  Felt a heck of a lot better about it too....

    Parent
    Amen brother.... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:23:56 PM EST
    People making a difference get mines too...not people making a career and connections and a cash-out for themselves.

    Parent
    close enough to touch "him" (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:25:40 PM EST
    maybe just the hem of his garment.  oh wait.  I forgot.  the emperor has no garments.

    Parent
    I asked my wife (none / 0) (#80)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:22:40 PM EST
    if she would be interested in winning a chance to go backstage with Obama in Denver.  She seemed to be up for it.

    "Maybe he'll do a fist bump with us!" I said.

    She asked, "What do we get if we donate to pay off Hillary's debt instead?"

    "I hear you win a chance to have dinner with Mark Penn," I replied.

    She didn't get that one.

    Parent

    maybe it would entice her more.... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by TimNCGuy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:24:18 PM EST
    if you said at the end of dinner with Mark, you are allowed to hit him over the head with something.

    Parent
    or if you showed her a picture (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:26:27 PM EST
    grrrrrrr

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:28:29 PM EST
    We have a little girl.  I try not to keep things around the house that will give her nightmares.

    Parent
    TimNC....No purchase necessary for the (none / 0) (#194)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:26:50 PM EST
    chance to touch the hem of his garment :)

    Parent
    heres something to cheer you up (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:27:07 PM EST
        The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.

    Nor would they be surprised at the shooter's reading material:

        Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.

    All I can say is.... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
    thank good it was a crazy white guy...if it was a crazy brown guy the terror alert would be raised to magenta...or maybe burnt sienna?

    Parent
    seafoam (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:42 PM EST
    for white guys.

    Parent
    They just haven't found... (none / 0) (#91)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:31:59 PM EST
    ...his stash of Coulter and Malkin porn with the stuck together pages hidden in a shoe box under the bed.

    Parent
    I Dunno (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    More like these kind of men, um.. save their vital essence aka can't get it up. Remember Brig. Gen. Jack D. Ripper?

    Parent
    well, (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:04:51 PM EST
    there goes lunch.

    Parent
    shudder (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:42:55 PM EST
    Eww... (none / 0) (#98)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:51:55 PM EST
    not a pleasant picture Mile...I didn't know people had a fetish for the "crazy eyes".

    Maybe those conservative books will be banned in the prisons now, like the religous texts that were supposed to promote "violence".

    Parent

    If you think that's bad... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:56:47 PM EST
    ...don't go over to Malkin's site and read the comments.  

    That's were the real, real scary stuff is.

    Parent

    there are plenty of nuts on the left also (none / 0) (#164)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:46:17 PM EST
    guy is unstable, needs psychiatric help not prison....

    Parent
    Just had a wee temblor out here in SoCal. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:55:34 PM EST


    Is 5.8 considered "wee?" (none / 0) (#109)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:03:49 PM EST
    Must be disconcerting, if nothing else - hope all is well and this is not the wee one that precedes a bigger one.

    Parent
    5.8 (none / 0) (#110)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:03:56 PM EST
    Yikes.

    Parent
    yikes is right! (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by ccpup on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:10:11 PM EST
    5.8 ain't wee.  My assistant came into the room laughing because she was on the phone with a friend in LA and the friend suddenly screamed "OH MY GOD NO!" and threw the phone across the room as she -- allegedly -- dove under the couch.

    It's her first week in LA and she forgot that the Earth had a tendency to move out there.

    I sent my assistant out for coffee so she could get over her giggles -- okay, guffaws -- and focus on my calendar for September.

    :-)

    Parent

    But short. (none / 0) (#129)
    by Fabian on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:39:28 PM EST
    It's severity plus length that does the damage.  Any quake that keeps on going like the energizer bunny can do a LOT of damage, even on the low end of the Richter scale.

    Parent
    5.8 (none / 0) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    is in roll over and go back to sleep territory.

    Parent
    Just heard.... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:13:26 PM EST
    and was thinking of ya pal.

    I don't know how you deal with that sh*t...if the ground starts shakin', I start panicking.  And when I'm done panicking I'm freakin' moving.

    Parent

    When I lived in So Calif (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:38:03 PM EST
    It was never the earthquakes that bothered me. As the Capt says, many times it was just a roll over or if at the office a whoa from all the cubicles. Having said that, it was the aftershocks that got you nervous after some big ones. When the first quake hits you are surprised and you just deal with it.In a minute it is over. But just knowing that afterschocks were coming kept you on edge for a few days.

    Parent
    there is no explaining (5.00 / 0) (#139)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:58:41 PM EST
    the feeling of an earthquake to someone who has never experienced one.  your brain is not wired, unless you are born in SoCal, for the earth to move.
    when it happens for the first time, no matter how much you tell yourself what is sensible to do, you turn into a little bunny who just wants to run somewhere.
    and yes, the after shocks are sometimes the worst.
    I actually arrived in LA two days after the Northridge quake. having been driving from Boston for days.  the quake happened when I was snowbound in a motel in Tennesee.  I woke up and there was nothing else on TV.  it made it look like the whole state was in flames and of course I could not call anyone to see if I still had a house to move into or a job to report to.  and I could not go back.  people were moving into my apt in Boston as I was moving out.  so I headed west hoping for the best.  I drove right by, among other things, the 18 wheeler stuck in mid air on the section of freeway that remained.  it was an adventure.

    Parent
    Hee! I woke (5.00 / 0) (#185)
    by Grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:16:12 PM EST
    up to watch a large jewelry box fly off my dresser and smash into the opposite wall during the Northridge earthquake.  And, as bad as it was, I was able to lie there and laugh until the house stopped shaking.  

    You see, two years before that, I was out in the desert when the Landers and Big Bear earthquakes hit and they were really scary.  The Landers quake (which was a 7.3) was so much stronger than Northridge and it had big aftershocks for the next couple of hours before the 6-something Big Bear quake hit.  I had called my coworkers after Landers and said I wasn't sure if I'd be able to make it to work the next day and they laughed at me because Landers was no big deal to them...  So I kinda thought the Northridge quake was getting even.  I was calm while they were all shook up.  ;-)  

    I grossly underestimated today's quake.  I'm in a high rise but I thought it was only a 4 or so.

    I don't like earthquakes but I guess I'm more used to them now.    

    Parent

    Um, it's not just SoCal born ;) (none / 0) (#153)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:12:13 PM EST
    I remember the 7.1 upstate and quite a few others out of SoCal range  ;) Although, I was born in SoCal, something tells me it's a statewide gift. You can always tell the outta staters. Some just never get it no matter how long they live there.

    Heh, I've been so busy watching wildfire reports there, that I forgot about the earthquakes.

    Parent

    I was living in Santa Cruz for the Loma Prieta (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by echinopsia on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:10:59 PM EST
    quake. About a week or so later, while we were still having aftershocks, I woke up in the middle of the night for some reason. I felt the bed shaking.

    But it wasn't an aftershock. It was my heart beating.

    Actually, before that one, earthquakes weren't scary for me. It was actually kind of cool to be reminded every so often that you can't count on that most basic of basic assumptions (for one who grew up in the Midwest, anyway) - that the ground beneath your feet is solid and immovable.

    Parent

    Yeah, that was the only quake (5.00 / 0) (#156)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:16:11 PM EST
    that actually got me up off my butt and out to safety. I had the "safe" yard and we always joked if there was a "big one" everyone would come to my place. And that they did. Those aftershocks were nasty.

    Parent
    Thanks for your thoughts kdog. (none / 0) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:20:37 PM EST
    I'm a about 55 miles from the epicenter, so all we had was a little rockin' and rollin'.

    Parent
    You make it sound fun:)....n/t (none / 0) (#124)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:27:52 PM EST
    The kids thought it was a blast. (none / 0) (#127)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:32 PM EST
    They weren't born yet when the Northridge quake hit, so it's all giggles for them.

    Parent
    Anyone see (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:00:22 PM EST
    Nas on Colbert?  It happened a while ago but the re-run was last night.

    I especially liked the clip of O'Reilly looking "angry and violent".

    For anyone into more political hip/hop that rap at the end was killer.

    Nah.... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    Nas is the man though...I'll scope it out on youtube tonight.  Thanks.

    Parent
    Yes It Was Great (none / 0) (#158)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:26:35 PM EST
    I linked to it from C&L some days ago. Never heard of the guy, but really liked it..

    Parent
    You might not like this.... (none / 0) (#180)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:10:41 PM EST
    his latest is officially untitled, but Nas wanted the title to be "Ni**er".

    Pressure from the label and politicians and others nixed that...here's his reasoning for the title and the change.

    Many thanks CST...a newfound urgency to pick up that record.

     

    Parent

    Yea (none / 0) (#184)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:16:11 PM EST
    I need to pick it up ASAP.  The single Hero is also off the hook and I have always been a big fan of Nas.  I really feel like rap has been getting a lot better the past few years, much more political, and Nas is a big part of that.

    Parent
    No Problem (none / 0) (#189)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:20:53 PM EST
    About Nas using ni&&er from me. Whether or not I like the music is another thing all together.

    Parent
    Here's the track.... (none / 0) (#190)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:21:47 PM EST
    Sly Fox

    Highly recommend.

    Parent

    Everyone okay (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:03:18 PM EST
    in Southern Cal?

    I'm fine (none / 0) (#120)
    by SoCalLiberal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:19:46 PM EST
    I'm in a highrise building built in 1925 so I'm a little frightened but I think we're okay.  

    Parent
    Whoa. (none / 0) (#122)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:21:17 PM EST
    That would be an experience I wouldn't want to have.

    Glad you're okay.

    Parent

    On a high floor too (none / 0) (#130)
    by SoCalLiberal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:39:56 PM EST
    So yeah, it's really allright.  I am avoiding elevators and won't be using the subway today.  I think it's fine though.  Why is CNN reporting a 5.4 earthquake?  It's 5.8 which is much more significant.  

    Parent
    this boggles my mind (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:42:27 PM EST
    From today's Israel Insider:

    What initially seemed to be a journalistic scoop of dubious moral propriety now seems to be a case of an Israeli paper being played by the Barack Obama campaign. Maariv, the second most popular newspaper in Israel, was roundly criticized for publishing the note Obama left in the Kotel. But now a Maariv spokesperson says that publication of the note was pre-approved for international publication by the Obama campaign, leading to the conclusion that the "private" prayer was intentionally leaked for public consumption.

    However, it now appears that Maariv had collaborated with the Obama campaign in getting the "private" prayer, with its "modest" supplicaton to the Lord, out to the public, buffing his Christian credentials and showing his "humility."

    Most politicians suffice with getting a photo-op. Obama may be the first to take a prayer-leak on the Wall.

    I heard... (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:52:39 PM EST
    ...that Obama was a Mossad double agent without a valid passport hellbent on forcing us to listen to German pop music and drink German beer!!11!

    Why won't Americans wake up to that fact?!?

    Parent

    also (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:57:08 PM EST
    Im down with the beer but the german pop.
    no.


    Parent
    but seriously (none / 0) (#167)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:55:31 PM EST
    leaking a prayer?

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:03:04 PM EST
    the jury is still out on this one.

    On the one hand, it seems awfully unbelievable that Obama writes this super-secret prayer that just happens to present him as a wonderful and humble human being, and that prayer just happens to get leaked to the media.  So there's that.

    On the other hand, you have this newspaper Ma'ariv bragging about its "journalistic accomplishment" in publishing the note, and then (after someone has tried to get criminal charges brought against the paper for a sacreligious act) claiming that actually, the Obama campaign freely provided the text of the note to a bunch of news organizations.  Well, if that's true, then what was their awesome journalistic accomplishment?

    So I think another shoe needs to drop or something.  Weird story.

    Parent

    also (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:09:14 PM EST
    it seems a bit odd to me that, at least as far as I know, this has never happened before.
    it seems unbelievable to me that the paper would publish it without permission.

    Parent
    Not according (5.00 / 0) (#177)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:07:22 PM EST
    To this

    Also, didn't a student already admit they stole the prayer and returned it to the wall while praying for forgiveness?

    Parent

    sounds a little like CYA ,CST (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:10:17 PM EST
    CYA? (none / 0) (#186)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:17:46 PM EST
    I hope I am not giving away too much when I say I have no idea what that means...

    Parent
    Nevermind (none / 0) (#187)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:19:13 PM EST
    I just figured it out.  Now I feel stupid...

    Parent
    cover your a$$ (none / 0) (#192)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:23:10 PM EST
    heres a senario.  the campaign set this all up complete with kid who says he stole it and is praying for forgiveness and someone at the paper starts blabbing to his pals in the field:

    "not only has Ma'ariv not offered any tangible evidence to supprot this claim, but they also have only made the claim via a spokesman to various Israeli papers"

    anyway, who really cares.  I wish I could say I thought the campaign was above it but I cant.

    Parent

    Here's Another Scenario (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:42:58 PM EST
    The newspaper rushed for a scoop underestimating the hot water it would get them in.

    There's no evidence of their CYA excuse being valid. None. Yet not only do you buy it (and post it here) but when presented with an alternate credible explanation of the paper's responsibility you dream up a scenario where the Obama campaign arranged to have the yeshiva student confess to taking the note out of the Wailing Wall.

    Wow.

    Parent

    look (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:46:49 PM EST
    Rabis are freaking out.  
    this is not business as usual.  
    why would they say he approved it?
    why would they go the the rather extreme length of publishing a prayer from someone as famous as an american presidential candidate and expect no blowback?

    wow all you want.  I dont drink koolaid.


    Parent

    anyway (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:50:45 PM EST
    it looks like we may find out:

    A Jerusalem lawyer petitioned the attorney general Sunday asking him to order a police investigation into the removal and subsequent publication of a personal note left in a crack of the Western Wall by U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama during his visit to Israel last week.

    Parent

    Rabis? (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:57:34 PM EST
    Maybe they have rabies. That would account for them freaking out.

    But here is a bit from a non rabid Rabbi, he is contrite:

    Western Wall rabbi apologizes for publication of Obama's note
    Rabbi Shmuel Rabinowitz sends letter to US Democratic presidential candidate expressing his regret for extraction of Obama's private note from wall, says it has been returned to its rightful place.

    The rabbi overseeing the Western Wall, Shmuel Rabinowitz, sent a letter on Tuesday to US Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama, in which he expressed his sorrow over the removal of the note written by Obama from the wall and its subsequent publication in local media.

    In addition, the Yeshiva student who removed Obama's note from the Wall also apologized and asked for Obama's forgiveness. He said the note had been returned to its place with Rabinowitz's help.

    link

    Parent

    sorry (none / 0) (#165)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:46:45 PM EST
    Callling out CST (2.33 / 3) (#148)
    by angie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:00:57 PM EST
    Yesterday, CST responded to a post I wrote about the reporting of the Obama Berlin gabfest with this and I feel compelled to respond:
    The BBC reported over 200,000.  They are pretty reliable.  Also, I am not sure I would use Greek reporting as a benchmark of how Europeans feel about Obama.  Frankly, I think we need to stop thinking of Europeans as one cohesive group (like they need to stop thinking of the U.S. that way).  However, it is pretty clear that Germans love Obama.  That would include the public and the news media.

    First, Greece is the cradle of western civilization -- so if you don't want to consider them Europeans what, pray tell, do you consider them? You sound like a typical xenophobic American who doesn't consider Greece "European" -- and you are dead wrong about that -- Western philosophy, Western democracy, Western medicine -- all from Greece, baby.
    Second, halving spent 1/2 my life living in Europe (and yes, I include Athens, Greece as Europe), please get off of your obviously American high horse lecturing me on lumping all of Europe into one group -- it is the Americans (and the American media) that are doing it here with the "Europeans love Obama" meme.
    Third, the 200,000 figure is a lie -- the German news programs reported it at 20,000 -- I saw the clip myself -- the Greek channel used the German news clips. The Obama camp made up the 200,000 number & the American media as well as the BBC ran with it.
    Finally, you know who else the Germans love? David Hasslehoff -- the Germans' alleged love for Obama means LESS THEN ZERO! NADA! Having actual experience in Europe and having actually lived in Germany for a while, believe me -- we shouldn't let the Germans influence us -- in fact, if the Germans love Obama, that is a good reason for us not to. The last time the Germans really fell in LOVE with a politician WW2 happened. So please tell me wtf is the point of the fact that the Germans LOVE Obama.

    I guess I touched a nerve... (5.00 / 4) (#154)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:15:32 PM EST
    Who knew that pointing out Greece doesn't represent all of Europe makes me a xenophobe?  I didn't say Greek wasn't "European" I said we need to stop thinking about Europeans as a cohesive group.  They're not.  I wouldn't expect Greek reporting to accurately describe how Germans might react to Obama.  Nothing against the Greeks...

    200,000 has been reported in many places, not just the bbc and the U.S.  Frankly, I really could give a cr@p if it was 200,000 or 1000 I just think it's funny that you are using this number as a reason to push a media conspiracy story.

    Finally, as for your comments about Germany, thanks for the history lesson, I lived there too, and had my own "actual experience".  WWII is over and most of the people that live there now weren't even alive for it, or if they were they were like 5 years old.  I don't know why you are so afraid of their "influence", other than pressuring us to use more windmills and less prescription drugs, I'm not really sure what you're worried about.  My point was, if they love Obama, maybe they went to see him, or maybe they went to see the band; mainly, maybe they WENT.

    Parent

    Yeah you touched a nerve (1.00 / 3) (#161)
    by angie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:41:44 PM EST
    Because you wrote complete and utter xenophobic bs and you can't even recognize that you did even when pointed out to you. Too bad your time "living in Germany" didn't help you rid yourself of that. Instead you try to rewrite what you wrote. You claim now that your point was that "they went -- maybe to see Obama; maybe to see the band." BS -- that isn't what you wrote at all. What you wrote, and what offended me is your claim on the one that that "Europeans love Obama" and then claim that the Greeks "aren't the benchmark of European opinion" -- which is what you did. You can parse it differently now, but that is exactly what you did -- typical xenophobic attitude to count some countries in Europe (Germany) as being more important than others (Greece). Trying to fall back on "not all of Europe is one" (while true) doesn't excuse your giving of more importance to one country over another -- and in fact, not even counting one country as European! I ask again -- what do you consider Greece if not European? (actually, scratch that -- I don't really care what you consider Greece).
    And, as I pointed out -- the clip I saw on the Greek channel was from the German news that reported approximately 20,000 -- do you take the BBC's account over the German's? Is that because GB is more important then Germany?
    Furthermore, even if the only thing you ever meant was that the Germans love Obama, I still ask -- who the f cares? You ask why do I care about Germany's influence -- Um, because we are a sovereign nation and Germany is looking out for its own interests. The Germans don't run elections based on who the US likes. That's called reality. The more important question is why you think the Germans should have any business whatsoever influencing who we elect.
     

    Parent
    No she didn't. (4.00 / 4) (#169)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:59:29 PM EST
    Because you wrote complete and utter xenophobic bs and you can't even recognize that you did even when pointed out to you.

    You are grossly misrepresenting what CST wrote (at least, what you quoted) and making yourself look silly.

    Since you don't seem to be able to understand what CST said, it calls into question (at least for me) whether you correctly reported what the media said.  I find it very hard to believe that all the US media were duped into reporting a rally of 200,000 people when you claim only 20,000 people were there.

    It is not xenophobic to state that European opinion is not monolithic, that it differs among countries, that Greece is only one country among many in Europe.  Those things are all true -- even my many Greek friends would agree with them.

    Parent

    Now you're making stuff up (1.00 / 1) (#171)
    by CST on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:03:01 PM EST
    I never once said "Europeans love Obama".  So I am not sure where you got that from...  Also, I specifically said we can't lump all of Europe together in the context of Greece not representing "European" opinion.  So no, that's really not the same thing as saying Greece isn't part of Europe, it's saying Greece doesn't represent the rest of Europe.  FYI, I don't think Germany does either, which is why I very specifically said GERMANS love Obama not EUROPEANS.  See the distinction?

    I brought up the BBC, not in some attempt to show GB superiority but because I was too lazy to list the rest.  So here.  Der Spiegel (German news), Deutsche Welle (German news)

    Next, I didn't say you should CARE that Germans love Obama.  You can care or not about whatever you want.  I also never suggested they should influence our elections.  I simply was wondering what are you so afraid of?

    Finally, get off your high horse and stop creating motives for what other people post.

    Parent

    All The German Newspapers I Saw (none / 0) (#176)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:06:48 PM EST
    Said over 200,000. Der Speigel, Die Welt, etc.

    Apart from wingnut sources, your german TV source is the only one reporting 20,000.

    Maybe they forgot a zero.

    From McClatchy:

    "People of Berlin, people of the world, this is our moment, this is our time," the Democratic hopeful told an enthusiastic outdoor crowd, which local authorities estimated at more than 200,000.

    xenophobia?


    Parent

    Be careful. . . (3.00 / 2) (#183)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:15:04 PM EST
    your german TV source is the only one reporting 20,000.

    we have no direct knowledge that such a report was even made.

    Parent

    I Assume angie (none / 0) (#195)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:29:34 PM EST
    Is not outright lying. But I did make a statement I cannot back up.   Other german sources may have reported 20,000. Just not the main Berlin newspapers I checked. Maybe 10 german newspapers reported it at 20,000. who knows, seems too boring for me to waste time checking.

    Would be nice if angie provided a link.

    Parent

    In That Vein (5.00 / 0) (#175)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:05:28 PM EST
    Sarkozy loved Obama.

    And everyone knows the French adore Jerry Lewis.

    Parent

    I, too, adore Jerry Lewis. (5.00 / 0) (#191)
    by zfran on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:21:54 PM EST
    Mr. Lewis is considered a (comedic) genius there, Mr. Obama, as far as I can tell, is not. If I met Sen. Obama in person, I might find him likeable, too. If Sarkozy met with Sen. McCain, he might have a good opinion of him as well. He will be working with one of them. Doesn't mean Obama or Lewis is ready to be president. Just my opinion.

    Parent
    I Prefer Lewis Over Hasselhoff (none / 0) (#196)
    by daring grace on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:32:39 PM EST
    that's for sure.

    Parent
    Obama's motto... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Salo on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:46:38 AM EST
    Celer et Audax

    And whats behind door #3? (none / 0) (#58)
    by Saul on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:28:10 PM EST
    Is this email for real?  I got this email today allegedly from Michelle Obama.

    If you donate by July 31 this is what you get:

    Ten supporters who make a donation in any amount by midnight this Thursday, July 31st, will be selected to fly to Denver, spend a couple of nights in a hotel, participate in the convention, and go Backstage with Barack. Each supporter who is selected will also get to bring a guest along to share the experience.

    Here is full email I got.

    saul --

    Barack likes to tell a story about the two of us standing backstage before his speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.

    The way he tells it, he was too busy in the days before the convention to feel any pressure -- but about an hour before the speech, I could tell he was getting a little nervous.

    To break the tension, right before he went out on stage I leaned in close and said, "Just don't screw it up, buddy."

    We laughed. And then Barack brought the house down.

    This year, the house is going to be a lot bigger. More than 75,000 people will be in Denver to be part of this important moment, and I want to tell you about an opportunity to join Barack backstage before his acceptance speech.

    Ten supporters who make a donation in any amount by midnight this Thursday, July 31st, will be selected to fly to Denver, spend a couple of nights in a hotel, participate in the convention, and go Backstage with Barack. Each supporter who is selected will also get to bring a guest along to share the experience.

    Make a contribution of $5 or more today and you could have your own Backstage with Barack story to tell:

    https:/donate.barackobama.com/backstagednc

    Barack's speech at the convention will be a culmination of the unlikely journey that has brought all of us so far over the past 17 months.

    He will call on us to come together and work for change -- not just to win this election, but to make things better for all Americans.

    Seeing it in person will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I'm excited about being there, and if you make a donation of $5 or more before the deadline, you could join Barack backstage:

    https:/donate.barackobama.com/backstagednc

    Thanks for everything you've done to get us here.

    Michelle

    If you do not wish to make a donation, you can still be selected to join Barack at the Democratic National Convention in Denver. Learn more here.


    Don't know (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by sj on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:44:08 PM EST
    But don't seem to be able to unsubscribe.

    Maybe that's for the best.  More opportunities that way to provide "feedback".

    Parent

    I contacted my ISP (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by samanthasmom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:11:18 PM EST
    and had them "unsubscribe" me. They said I wasn't the only one who contacted them to ask them to step in. I wasn't able to SPAM block them either. But the DNC is blocked now. I had asked the DNC to stop sending me email months ago. Returning their snail mail with my 2 cents is more fun.

    Parent
    Despite numerous requests to the (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    Obama campaign to stop mailing me their pleas for contributions, I started cutting them up and sending them back in the postage-paid envelope.

    Immature?  Very.  Satisfying?  You bet.

    I unsubscribed from Kerry - because he's responsible for selling my info to Obama - and from Edwards (I think he picked the wrong guy) and the DNC.

    Parent

    I send mine back with "you cheated" (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by zfran on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:14:05 PM EST
    "you lied" "no money" written in marker. They've stopped calling, but have not stopped sending.

    Parent
    Sounds like the Scientologists. (none / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:59:32 PM EST
    I get stuff from them every single day, often multiple mailings.

    Parent
    I got that too. (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by OrangeFur on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:13:47 PM EST
    I have no idea what that story is supposed to mean.

    Parent
    It's a follow up to yesterday's (5.00 / 0) (#157)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:22:37 PM EST
    "Special Invitation" email from David P to contribute and possibly win a backstage pass. Wonder if they didn't get enough response, which triggered MO's email to let you know how "special" the "experience" is?

    I'd rather have dinner will Hillary, TYVM!

    Parent

    Heh, looks like the DNC also (none / 0) (#173)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:03:33 PM EST
    sent out the same message

    Parent
    Obama should let convention select VP (none / 0) (#61)
    by Exeter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:39:13 PM EST
    That is the way it usually used to be done pre-Kennedy and I like the idea for many reasons, but mostly because it is more Democratic. Why? Because if he wins, his VP will almost certainly be the defacto nominee in 2016.  Realistically, at a minimum, it ties up the Democratic Party to Obama for the next 8-16 years and possibly more.

    I disagree with that (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by litigatormom on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:45:13 PM EST
    I think that the GOP would use that to support their "not enough experience" meme.  "Can't even choose his own VP."  Blah blah blah.

    Parent
    Hmmm. (none / 0) (#66)
    by pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:18 PM EST
    Because if he wins, his VP will almost certainly be the defacto nominee in 2016.

    Depends who the VP candidate is.  Also, there's no guarantee at all that he'll be relected if he wins in 2008.

    Parent

    But even if he doesn't win in 2012... (none / 0) (#104)
    by Exeter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:58:23 PM EST
    His VP will be still have the inside track in 2016-- like Mondale did in 1984.

    Parent
    And didn't that work out well. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Cream City on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:11:50 PM EST
    its a bird, its a plane . . . . (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:17:34 PM EST
    its SUPERNANCY!

    "I'm trying to save the planet; I'm trying to save the planet," she says impatiently when questioned. "I will not have this debate trivialized by their excuse for their failed policy."

    REPUBLICO

    gag me with a spoon.
    I guess all you  have to do to get good press coverage is be a DINO.  who knew.
    (well, I knew, actually)

    Actually (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:31:59 PM EST
    I find that to be a pretty cute puff piece.

    I'm not as down on Pelosi as most other folks are.  In my opinion, she's a lightning rod for reasons that are largely symbolic.

    Parent

    my point is (none / 0) (#92)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    if she was a real progressive the same web site would be excoriating her.


    Parent
    Hm (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:39:19 PM EST
    I dunno.  I think from the Politico's perspective Nancy looks about as far-left as anyone else.

    It's not like this article is praising her for taking impeachment off the table, or any of those other things that have irked liberals.  Instead, they make her out to be a pretty implacable opponent of the GOP.

    Parent

    well of course they do (none / 0) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:40:54 PM EST
    they are republico.  
    and we all know she is not.
    she is their dream dem.

    Parent
    Iraq (none / 0) (#197)
    by lentinel on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:39:03 PM EST
    Meanwhile, in Iraq, the violence continues.

    Obama has now linked his withdrawal plans to advice from commanders on the ground.

    What are they going to tell him? That things are rosy?

    This is the problem with Obama. He can't or won't see that the Iraq war is a moral abomination. He can't or won't acknowledge that the violence will continue until we get out.

    4000 U.S. soldiers dead. Tens of thousands wounded. A million Iraqis killed. And the best Obama can come up with is that this is a "strategic blunder".