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Truth Commissions

Part of the outrage that many of us feel about the FISA Capitulation is that the Democrats, led by our presumptive nominee, are signalling not only a diminution of our Constitutional right to privacy, but also an acceptance of the Bush Administrations abuses as acceptable behavior for the United States. Today, Nick Kristof proposes a Truth Commission:

These abuses happened partly because, for several years after 9/11, many of our national institutions didn’t do their jobs. The Democratic Party rolled over rather than serving as loyal opposition. We in the press were often lap dogs rather than watchdogs, and we let the public down.

. . . Both Barack Obama and John McCain should commit to impaneling a Truth Commission early in the next administration. This commission would issue a report to help us absorb the lessons of our failings, the better to avoid them during the next crisis.

More . . .

Of course Nick Kristof lives in a fantasy world all his own where an Obama, who fears even holding disliked Big Telco accountable, is going to sign up for a "Truth Commission." As for John McCain, you gotta be kidding me. Back on Planet Earth, the Democratic Party and its putative leader have already told you no to getting to the truth. No to protecting the Constitution. Kristof apparently missed that.

On the issue of abuse of power and the Constitution by the Bush Administration, Democrats have told you what they think - they do not care or are too scared to care. Bush's Third Term on THESE issues is promised by both the Democratic and Republican candidates.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    This is why (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by madamab on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:57:55 AM EST
    I was for Dodd until he dropped out. The Constitution is not negotiable for me.

    Who would they get to run this Truth (none / 0) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:02:12 AM EST
    Commission?

    Parent
    A Republican of course. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by madamab on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:05:12 AM EST
    Maybe Arlen Specter. He has "Commission" experience. ;-)

    Parent
    it isn't like we have seen other (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:09:28 AM EST
    "commissions" from jfk to 9/11 and we know how well they worked out or didn't.

    Parent
    Why, (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:16:22 AM EST
    the Minister of Truth, no doubt.

    Parent
    Pat Robertson perhaps.... :) (none / 0) (#28)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:09:14 PM EST
    Yes, in this way as in (5.00 / 9) (#3)
    by frankly0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:02:25 AM EST
    a number of others, the Obama Administration would be like a third term of the Bush administration.

    So where's the breaking point for Obama voters? When do they declare: Enough -- I'm not going to vote for you! I will register my protest by sitting this election out. Perhaps in the next election I can have a Democratic candidate I will see as worthy of my vote. What I absolutely know is that if I and others don't band together and hit the Democratic nominee where it hurts -- by making him lose the election through denying him our votes -- there will never be a change in the direction and mettle of my party.

    Sitting Out Is (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by talex on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    a matter of Principe. And if you are a person of Principle then there is no question that it is the right thing to do.

    Some people cry out to hold the Telcos accountable and holding Bush accountable, and even holding some congress people accountable. But yet some of those same people refuse to hold Obama accountable. What's up with that?

    Given that I'd say from those actions the accountability argument is a bunch of hot air.

    How do you ask others to hold people and companies accountable when one refuses to exercise their own powers and hold those accountable that we have the power to hold accountable via our vote?

    It's nonsense. It makes no sense at all.

    If Obama truly believes in the vote he is about to make he should be held accountable because he is participating in the exact thing that everyone is arguing that there should be accountability about. Every participant should be held accountable but yet there are some who think he should get a pass. Sorry but that won't fly.

    In addition he has shown that he will not be a good leader either of the country or for the Democratic Party itself. If he is so weak that he can't influence enough Democratic votes needed to stop this then he has shown the inability to hold enough of the Party together when it counts. If that is the case who needs him? What purpose will he serve?

    Short of rallying enough votes he could have filibustered himself. But he will not. Again showing he is not a leader and has Principles that can be easily compromised.

    So maybe there is the connection of why people want to hold others accountable but refuse to hold Obama accountable. They both have Principles that can be easily compromised.

    Parent

    I have never understood why (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by athyrio on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:04:58 AM EST
    democrats are such cowards and to find a democratic leader that really fights for principle and stands up for values seems to be rare. :-(

    Before the Dem Primaries (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:04:09 PM EST
    were over, I read a comment -- sorry, can't recall where -- claiming that the Repubs wanted Obama over HRC because they felt she would be far more likely to go after admin for illegal acts than Obama.

    Parent
    "The Democratic Party rolled over..." (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by OxyCon on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:11:14 AM EST
    That would be Tom Daschle who did the rolling over...Barack Obama's future Chief of Staff.
    Daschle rolled over thousands of times, for the sake of bipartisanship, and how did Bush reward him? By aggressively going after him and getting him thrown out of government, something that was rarely if ever done before, which is targeting the opposition Senate minority leader.

    daschle then went after a fellow (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:13:12 AM EST
    democrat is a disciple and unacceptable manner in the primaries. what a tragedy!

    Parent
    sorry that is dispicable. (none / 0) (#19)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:29:17 AM EST
    not enough coffe this morning.

    Parent
    Daschle is a roller because... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by pluege on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:40:06 AM EST
    his wife is a major lobbyist, which is what butters his bread. Daschle served in Congress to look after lobbyists, not the people.

    Parent
    Daschle & Tommy Thompson (none / 0) (#30)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:19:27 PM EST
    were on C-SPAN yesterday in a two-man healthcare forum.

    What stood out about Daschle, aside from his obsequious manner, was...his shoes.

    Ye Gawds...on television, seated on a stage above the audience, his showy orangey-brown alligator shoes stood out like neon.

    Parent

    Truth Commission Ha!~!!` (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by zfran on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:11:19 AM EST
    There are no "Mr. Smiths" anymore in Washington. There are also no "non partisans" left (or very, very few imo)so who do we actually believe on this truth commission? I believe that either candidate is a bush term #3. FISA sealed that fate (among a few other things for me)when Obama "settled."

    Shouldn't Kristof (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by pie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:12:26 AM EST
    and his pals have formed their own Truth Commission?  I mean, just what do they think they're here for anyway?

    Yes, the dems have been cowards, but so have those in the media (those who weren't actively supporting the crimes).

    Loyal opposition? (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by ricosuave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:12:31 AM EST
    I hate the way writers have used and misused this term over the last several years (when, sadly, it has started being useful in the US).  The "loyal opposition" was frequently used to describe the PAN in Mexico, which was the right wing party that served as a foil to the ruling PRI.  They made a big show of putting up candidates for election, but they happily lost the presidency and took their alloted share of legislative and local offices, and acquiesced to pretty much much whatever the PRI wanted.

    Kristoff is right to use the term in this context, but it means the exact opposite of how he used it.

    As for a truth commission, that is just laughable.  We have two commissions that were given full authority by the constitution to investigate this in any way they want: the House of Representatives and the Senate.  Maybe if we start a rumor that a telecom exec used steriods, we could get them interested...

    ms pelosi and mr reid, (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:15:56 AM EST
    there is a reason why your poll numbers are actually lower than bush. why is that? why you rolled over and dumped on your fellow citizens. then you are arrogant as well.

    Finally (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by koshembos on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:18:31 AM EST
    Finally, there is an interpretation of the Obama vote for FISA that comes closer to political reality. I believe that besides move to the very right, Obama signaled that he is not going to hold Bush, Cheney, and company to account for  their violations of law and war crimes.

    As you said, the two candidates couldn't reject truth more.

    I Don't See Any Reason (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by The Maven on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:27:20 AM EST
    to think that Kristof realistically believes that either candidate would come close to endorsing the concept of a truth commission.  The language in his column makes it pretty clear that he is merely speaking as to what he feels ought to occur, and is using his bully pulpit at the NY Times to advocate for it (much as he did for Darfur and other African human rights issues).

    But the fact of the matter is that Obama would most likely look to "turn the page" on these issues, lest his presidency be mired in (false) accusations that he -- and Democrats generally -- are motivated principally by vengeance against the Bush Administration and its enablers.  Obama, for better or worse, had made it clear time and again that he wants only to look toward the future and not to dwell on or reargue the past.  As for McCain, well, his motivations to avoid this are legion.

    Perhaps a truth commission is about as unlikely as the GOP rolling over to permit a Democratic agenda to sail through Congress uncontested, but it's an idea that ought to be raised so as to prevent the abuses of the past seven years from simply being swept under the rug.  Should that occur, our national memory is such that we might allow the next cycle of abuses a couple of administrations from now to be far, far worse.  And that thought should scare us all.

    Kristoff is pretty much ALWAYS off the mark (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by pluege on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:35:41 AM EST
    Besides, the "Truth Commission" is already built into the Constitution - its called impeachment proceedings and Pelosi and the rest of the Vichy Dems already signed off on not seeking the truth, not holding anyone accountable, not protecting the people, not upholding their oath, and not giving a damn about anything except holding their own positions of power.

    hogwash! (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by cpinva on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:39:46 AM EST
    we don't need a "truth commission", we need independent counsels and prosecutions. forget this, "ok, if you'll tell all the scumbaggy things you did, we'll let you go home and write a book about it." nonsense.

    these people should be hounded mercilessly, and made to pay personally for the damage they've caused this country, at home and abroad.

    truth commission? pfffffffffffffttttttttttttttttt!

    If we wanted (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Steve M on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:47:33 AM EST
    to refight old battles, we should have thought about nominating a different candidate.

    What part of "turning the page" does Kristof fail to understand?

    Truth Is So Unpleasant (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by BDB on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:05:47 PM EST
    I believe it was someone at Corrente who pointed out that, in the interests of bipartisanship, we'll be skipping the truth part and heading straight to reconciliation.   Anything else might be divisive (not that a Truth Commission wouldn't embarrass an awful lot of Democrats as well as Republicans).  That's one of the reasons I believe the DNC and D.C. Dems chose Obama (and it was them who chose him through SDs).

    And I pointed out somewhere that ignoring the (none / 0) (#37)
    by jawbone on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:09:06 PM EST
    illegalities and unconstitutional behaviors of Reagan/Bush and the Iran-Contra affair lead directly to the people who did bad things then doing even worse things in the Bush Maladministration..

    And that worked out so well, the Dems are probably going to do it again...??????

    Parent

    Some go back to Pres. Ford (none / 0) (#40)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:28:50 PM EST
    Your line of reasoning often leads to Ford's "don't start" any retribution gigs on Nixon, terminated by the pardon.

    Grrr.

    Parent

    What Can You Say? (none / 0) (#8)
    by talex on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:10:32 AM EST
    Kristof is behind the curve. There is no story here as far as I am concerned. The writing was on the wall months ago and Obama gave it his stamp of approval. End of story.

    kristof presumes anyone will tell the (none / 0) (#11)
    by hellothere on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:11:47 AM EST
    truth? i don't.

    Truth is Off the Table (none / 0) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:52:51 AM EST
    The Republicans, of course, and the Democrats, to be sure, do not want any serious investigation of charges of crimes and other wrong-doings by the Bush Administration and their accomplices. The opera  "impeachment is off the table" sung in contralto by Mrs. Pelosi on election eve, 2006, must have been a wonderful lullaby for Bush and Cheney. Commissions also have a soothing ring to them as well. Impanel beltway experts add a few generals,  co-chair them with elder statesman like Nunn and Boren, and just sit back and enjoy the show. Sure, the subpoena part used to be nettlesome, but that part has now been choreographed to an insignificant off-stage role.  Sorry, expect  a lot of singing, but no Sing Sing.

    Kaffee: "I want the truth." (none / 0) (#27)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:08:37 PM EST
    Jessep:You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
    We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

    A Few Good Men is a play by Aaron Sorkin, produced on Broadway by David Brown in 1989. Sorkin adapted his work for a 1992 film of the same title.  

    Nicholson (none / 0) (#32)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:01:12 PM EST
    was great in the role of Jessup in he movie.

    That particular speech always reminds me a bit of the speech at the end of The Caine Mutiny Court Martial...about Queeg but delivered by Greenwald.

    As fine writers so often do, they force us to think, to consider ambiguity and another point of view.

    I was just thinking this morning, in fact, about the birth of our nation and the courage needed to sign that revolutionary document...and their own death warrants, should they lose the war they had declared on the strongest nation on earth.  The signs weren't good...history wasn't on their side.

    Reminds me too of visiting Boston in '76 or '77, going through the interactive museum, 'taking the test' to discover (after answering the questions) which side one would have been on in our war of independence.

    Once a rebel always a rebel.  To this day, my son has never looked at me in quite the same way...

    We are, it seems, in short supply these days.  

    Parent

    We need many Truth Squads (none / 0) (#34)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:26:37 PM EST
    I served in the US Marine Corps long ago, worked for a huge defense contractor, worked for the USAF as a civilian, & worked in Central Asia as a contractor.  I've worn the uniform & been on the wall.  I've also been on the wall in civvies without a weapon.  "Truth" is a free variable in all 3 branches of government.

    Pelosi, Reid, etc., are correct on the FISA amendments, in my not-at-all humble opinion.  The Telcos will get immunity because the lawsuits would expose operations & methods that must be kept classified.

    I also think that Sen. Obama has been briefed recently (upon becoming the presumptive nominee) by some person or persons privvy to the wiretap situation & he reversed his opinion instantly.

    The "truth" here is that HR 6304 is going to pass by huge majorities in both houses & the arguments against it are a very minority position.

    Other "truths," not so much; the torture & war crimes & violations of the Geneva Accords need to be adjudicated, Guantanamo & Abu Ghraib must be openly investigated, the secret renditions have to be brought into the light, & the Bu$hInc relationships with the Saudi royal family beg for public hearings.

    None of that will happen though.  The "truth" is that our USA is a despotic, sequential, Imperial Hegemon, with irregular shifts of focus by the reigning tyrant.  As per Lily Tomlin--"and that's the truth."

    Parent

    We all love Lily (none / 0) (#38)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:56:04 PM EST
    and Edith Ann...and in their honor, may I say I'd prefer a female despot as the reigning tyrant this time around...if it's all the same to you.

    I think this country could use a 'toughlove Mom' right about now.

    Parent

    OK, let's go there on tough mamas (none / 0) (#39)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:25:57 PM EST
    I recommend Caryn Elaine Johnson, aka Whoopi Goldberg.

    A comically gifted intellectual, with a Jewish surname, who could perform stand-up comedy about Sen. John S. McCain III for an hour every evening until election day.

    After she finished with his sorry self, Sen. McCain would be the laughingstock of the USA & people in AZ might begin a recall petition.

    Actually . . . ?


    Parent

    Whoopee! I mean, (none / 0) (#41)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:39:20 PM EST
    Whoopi is fine with me.

    Go ahead.  Cut the deal.

    This is good.  My mood is improving already...I can feel the corners of my mouth beginning to turn up ever so slightly just at the picture in my mind...not just Whoopi, but Whoopi and her friends Billy and Mork.

    Ummm...one thing...can Hillary be her running mate or is that too much to ask?  I know Whoopi will have them rolling in the aisles at the Congress and all but I think she'll still need someone to run poltical interference for her, legislationwise.

    Parent

    You're right. Invert the ticket. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:47:12 PM EST
    Clinton & Goldberg, with Whoopi as the "rabid attack dog," going medieval on Sen. McCain, the rightwingnutz, & the fundagelicals.

    I know there's a movie script in there somewhere.

    Parent

    Works for me. (none / 0) (#43)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:22:05 PM EST
    I'll be an extra.

    Or proofread/edit the script.

    Parent

    Probably an Oscar in there somewhere too. (none / 0) (#44)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:22:55 PM EST
    OK...don't get greedy. (none / 0) (#45)
    by oldpro on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:47:03 PM EST
    Humility works better...tho it doesn't seem much in fashion these days, does it?

    Parent
    Past and Future (none / 0) (#29)
    by Joseph Burns on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:13:52 PM EST
    Obama wants to control the agenda. Since the Bush approach has been to "blacken the sky" with so many abuses that his successor could spend two terms simply correcting and fixing all that, Obama has chosen to set a positive agenda and move forward rather than look back.

    This is smart for him and his own "legacy", but it essentially guarantees Bush's as well. I imagine he will reverse policy in many ways, but there will be no clear repudiation that we might all prefer. Thus, many of the Bush violations of law and the Constitution will be allowed to sit unchallenged in any official, legal manner, and future Presidents will indeed do exactly as we fear: citing Bush as a legitimizing precedent for futher abuses.

    While Obama will certainly not seek a Truth and Reconciliation panel, there would be value in one given the utter lack of accountability we are confronted with. Remember how many people only get their news from the tube. Remember how many falsehoods the Administration has put out that are still believed by many. Remember how the press sold us out and don't think for a minute that they are improved. All this points to the value of getting the real story validated for all those voters who have bought into the lies.

    The reality is, there will be no commission. Don't diss the truth though, not everyone has as much of it as we.

    Bush+Cheney poisoned the well. . . . (none / 0) (#35)
    by wurman on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:35:09 PM EST
    Your comment is so "true."  It is not actually possible to go through the Congressional Record & the Code of Fed. Reg & the Supreme Court decisions to STOP, reset the clock, & go back to January 2000 by undoing all the Bu$hInc disasters.

    No one can "un-ring" that bell or as the rocket scientists often word it, "you just can't un-screw that pooch."

    Even if an administration actually set out to reverse the crimes of Bu$hInc, it couldn't even be started well in a pair of 4-year administrations.

    Parent

    Bush has attempted to firmly established the (none / 0) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:34:19 PM EST
    precedent that the President Is Above The  Law. By voting in support of the Bush Coverup and Elimination of Constitutional Rights bill, Obama and the Democratic Party are helping solidify this precedent. IMO this can only lead to further abuses.

    Having the MCMers factcheck AND correct errors (none / 0) (#36)
    by jawbone on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:05:00 PM EST
    would be a great start.

    Dave Johnson at Seeing the Forest points our an egregious error by the LATimes.

    This is so knowable, MCM doods! The spying began before 9/11. It's a known fact.

    Truth Commissions?

    The MCM does Truthiness, commissions, reporting, punditry, whatever. They probably dream truithinessly.