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Obama Heckled at Speech in Florida

Sen. Barack Obama got heckled today while giving a speech in Florida. The hecklers were African Americans who wanted to know why he hasn't spoken out for the AA community. The audience booed the hecklers, and to Obama's credit, he gave them an opportunity during the q and a following his talk to ask a question:

"My question is, in the face of the numerous attacks that are made against the African community, or the black community, by the same U.S. government that you aspire to lead," the man started, before naming sub-prime lending, police shootings of blacks, the Jena 6 case and Hurricane Katrina.

"In the face of all these attacks that are clearly being made on the African community, why is it that you have not had the ability to not one time speak to the interests and even speak on behalf of the oppressed and exploited African community, or black community, in this country?" he asked. As some in the audience booed, Obama started his response.

Obama's answer below:

"I think you are misinformed about what you say 'not one time.'" Obama continued. "Every issue you have spoken about, I actually did speak out....I've been talking about talking about predatory lending for the last two years in the United States Senate and worked to pass legislation to prevent it when I was in the state legislature. And I have repeatedly said that many of the predatory loans that were made in the mortgage system did target African-American and Latino communities. I've said that repeatedly. No. 2: Jena 6.

I was the first candidate to get out there and say this is wrong and there has been an injustice that's been done and we need to change it...When Shawn Bell got shot, I put out a statement immediately saying, this is a problem....On each of these issues, I have spoken out. Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine....I have spoken out and I have spoken out forcefully....I passed the first racial profiling legislation in Illinois. I passed some of the toughest death penalty reform legislation in Illinois. So, these are issues I have worked on for decades."

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  • Display: Sort:
    Ruh roh. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:23:57 PM EST
    Sen. Barack Obama got heckled today while giving a speech in Florida. The hecklers were African Americans who wanted to know why he hasn't spoken out for the AA community.

    Someone has Trouble with a capital T.

    As long as trouble is defined as... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:43 PM EST
    ...getting 93.3291% instead of 93.3295% of the AA vote, yes, this signals "trouble."

    [ Parent ]
    He will get 96-98% of the black vote (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:27:50 PM EST
    and this won't change that one bit.

    [ Parent ]
    he could get 99.9% (4.20 / 5) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:37:17 PM EST
    and still lose.  

    [ Parent ]
    Irrelevant. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:38:16 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    turnout is the issue with AA's. (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:40:20 PM EST
    I could easily see turnout not meeting expectations, if people feel as those hecklers do.

    [ Parent ]
    No evidence of that at all (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:49 PM EST
    He treated the hecklers with respect.....

    [ Parent ]
    He Treated Hecklers With Respect (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    which is more than you can say about the McCain campaign.

    Wasn't there an item here about the McCain campaign siccing the police or security on two women in line for an event who were wearing tee shirts with a message? Not an Obama message but maybe pro choice or something?

    [ Parent ]

    I expect that (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:52 PM EST
    he'll see more of this.  Will his answers/claims satisfy those voters?

    18,000,000 voters were obviously not satisfied in the primaries.

    [ Parent ]

    The Primaries are (3.66 / 3) (#88)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:59 PM EST
    over.

    The more you tear down Obama, the more you boost McCain....It really is that simple....Terribly destructive, but it is what the Left does best.

     

    [ Parent ]

    no one is tearing down Obama (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
    he did that himself.  we are seeing the world without blinders.  nothing more.


    [ Parent ]
    lol (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:12:57 PM EST
    Eugene Ionesco could have gotten some material from you.

    [ Parent ]
    It is a surreal nonsensical farce (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:18:05 PM EST
    to believe McCain will do anything other than a photo-op to help the environment....but he will give big oil a lot of goodies....

    [ Parent ]
    Clearly I was being too subtle. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:25:34 PM EST
    My comment was directed at the "world without blinders" comment. The irony was so thick that my laughter prevented me from breathing.

    [ Parent ]
    My goof--I thought you were talking to me (none / 0) (#159)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:32:24 PM EST
    I didn't have the comments in nested format.

    [ Parent ]
    Good trick, Faust! (none / 0) (#167)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:39:13 PM EST
    Typing without breathing.

    Keeps it short.

    [ Parent ]

    Maybe MKS and some others should have (4.00 / 3) (#133)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:41 PM EST
    visited the wailing wall with obama....Hillary was ALWAYS supposed to be held accountable and be responsible for anything she did.  obama supporters insist on a free ride for the inexperienced one.  NO Hillary supporters have to ever hope for obama to falter; he is doing it all on his own.

    [ Parent ]
    McCain Wishes He Was 'Faltering' (5.00 / 0) (#189)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:59:46 PM EST
    the way obama is right now.

    Aside from the fact that polling at this point in a campaign is only useful to have fun with, Obama remains competitive in state races, even some emerging purple ones.

    He's got money to burn, committed supporters and the  MSM to work with, not to mention a superb campaign operation.

    By comparison, McCain is fumbling.

    Also, like polls, who knows, but again, for fun...

    How Bad For McCain

    2008 Election Fundamentals


    [ Parent ]

    Or, with tunnel vision (4.25 / 4) (#117)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:09:36 PM EST
    applauding every perceived Obama misfortune....

    If he loses, a lot of liberal and progressive causes will die....One of the biggest losses imo will be the environment...The Polar Ice Cap is almost completely melted and will probably be gone in the next 2-3 years.  And, McCain, if he wins, will win riding the oil drilling horse....An Obama victory is the best chance in years of really helping the environment and implementing some of Al Gore's ideas...

    Some former Hillary supporters are criticizing Obama for not agreeing to more drilling....Our oceans are a big sewer as is....I understand most do not care, and it is an "elitist" view that the oceans should have greater protection....

    For some, attacking Obama is more important than protecting the oceans....just another point to hit Obama with in an misconceived and ill-fated attempt to support Hillary.

    It has been fun for some....but having fun in watching a former primary rival have trouble ignores the bigger picture...

    [ Parent ]

    More fear-mongering? (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:15:40 PM EST
    If he loses, a lot of liberal and progressive causes will die

    Other than the fact that liberalsand pregressives seem to be in sort supply these days (I haven't seen Obama in action enough to determine his creds there), the dems could manage to pass some beneficial legislation with big enough majorities in each House.

    I will be voting for downticket dems for that reason.

    [ Parent ]

    The Presidency matters (5.00 / 4) (#143)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    No fear mongering.  Just reality:  Another four years of a Republican President will not be good....

    [ Parent ]
    LOL--I get a "one" (5.00 / 4) (#203)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:18:37 PM EST
    for saying a Democratic President is better than a Republican one?  On a blog of the Left?

    Wow, I get that some will still support Hillary no matter what, but really...

    [ Parent ]

    You think this is fun? (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:16:00 PM EST
    Speaking for myself, do you have any idea how desperately I wanted to vote for a Democrat this year?

    Do you have any idea how awful it is that I am fighting with my Democratic family because they are Obama worshipers who have massive HDS?

    You think this is FUN?!

    Obama is completely and totally unacceptable to me. Me, a Democrat for 22 years. And it's his fault, not mine.

    I am practically Danish, I'm so depressed about my two choices in the primary.

    This is not f&cking fun. It's absolutely terrible.

    [ Parent ]

    Right (4.20 / 5) (#142)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:21:57 PM EST
    All the Obama supporters in your family are delusional and irrationally hate Hillary but you are reasonable but decided that you simply could not vote for Obama because........ he was mean to Hillary.

    I don't know if its fun for you but you certainly have no interest in actually caring about the issues.  It's about Hillary for you and it has been for months.

    [ Parent ]

    Stop reading my mind. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:24:16 PM EST
    I care about the issues, and Obama is not believable on them at all. McCain sucks on them too, IMHO.

    I'm not happy.

    [ Parent ]

    The difference (5.00 / 3) (#190)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:00:21 PM EST
    is that you simply BELIEVE that Obama is secretly very bad on the issues despite everything he says to contrary.

    John McCain has clearly stated views that are, in fact, very very bad.  

    As much as you want to equate Obama and McCain the reality is that they are miles apart on virtually all key issues.

    [ Parent ]

    Elaborate rationalization (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:10:24 PM EST
    Some need to convince themselves that it is okay to oppose Obama, so they create these elaborate constructs and lines of thought that are based on....nothing, really.

    [ Parent ]
    Ultimately this is correct (5.00 / 4) (#205)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:20:41 PM EST
     Obama and McCain are not the same and they are miles apart on key issues.

    Regardless of what you think about Obama, McCain would be worse. And don't expect the spineless ones in congress to save you. They will interpret a McCain victory as the public likes what Bush is doing, that the public would rather keep throwing money down the drain in Iraq. And the GOP will continue to use fear to get their way.

    Democrats suck, because they are cowards. Republicans suck because they are purveyors of fear to rip us off.

    [ Parent ]

    No, of course not (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:28:34 PM EST
    But I thought most here supported Al Gore's views....Maybe not....

    This is very simple and clear: A Democratic President helps the environment (and a lot of other things too), a Republican President hurts the environment....

    I always feared that a McCain presidency would mean the end of Roe...but at least some progress could be made on the environment....McCain's selling out to big oil is, however, now complete.....

    [ Parent ]

    Say's Law: Environmentalists always lose (5.00 / 0) (#188)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:43 PM EST
    Environmentalists have never really prevailed in anything much....some air quality is better; drinking water may be safer....

    But the steady march of destruction continues, feeding off of canards that stopping, even temporarily, its march would be "sending us back to the Stone Age."

    Been around some too.  The oceans are dying....Much of the beauty of our planet is constantly eroding....


    [ Parent ]

    No one is talking regression (5.00 / 0) (#198)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:12:25 PM EST
    except Republicans financed by big oil.....

    [ Parent ]
    You mean giving up gas guzzlers (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:14:11 PM EST
    in favor of more efficient cars?

    [ Parent ]
    Interesting (none / 0) (#181)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:49:54 PM EST
    It sounds like you are for more drilling and not a big fan of Al Gore...

    To each his own....

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is responsible (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    for his own actions, and his own lack of support from die-hard Democrats.

    If Hillary were the nominee, and doing so poorly against McCain with her own party, I don't believe that anyone but Hillary would be blamed.

    And rightly so. It is not the fault of the voters, it is the fault of the candidate.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama is blamed and (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:21 PM EST
    constantly....The press turned against him long ago.....

    Those who study such things have found that over 70% of the coverage Obama has received has been negative since June....McCain not so much:  it is about 53-47 negattive for him.....

    [ Parent ]

    I did?!!! (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:00 PM EST
    The press turned against him long ago.....

    Since when?

    [ Parent ]

    There are more surveys (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by miriam on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:30:04 PM EST
    that support an opposite view of the one you cite: Obama has received far more positive press than McCain.  And in spite of that, he still can't pull ahead with a substantial lead.  Democrats who want to win the presidency should be very concerned at this point. Once again the party appears to be snatching defeat from the jaws of what should have been certain victory---and would be if Clinton were the nominee.

    [ Parent ]
    There are only two choices--not three (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:34:47 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    The likely outcome is (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by tree on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:42:13 PM EST
     that one of those two will become President. But in reality, the choices are infinite. I choose to support neither. Two "No" votes from me.

    [ Parent ]
    That was tried in 2000 (none / 0) (#179)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    Look how good that turned out.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes, some people tried that (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by tree on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:12 PM EST
     but in the end enough people voted for Bush to allow the SC to steal the eletion. This year do we really know which candidate is Gore and which is Bush? Personally I'm certain that neither candidate is a Gore and neither is a Bush. So who really will be the worse choice? Each is very bad in his own unique way. If it gives you any consolation, I live in California. If my vote really makes a difference here to the outcome then Obama will have already lost.

      I've often thought recently that in the last two years the Democratic party seems intent on proving Nader right. He wasn't even close to right in 2000. He's much closer to the mark in 2008, thanks to the capitulation of the Democrats.

    [ Parent ]

    Actually, about 7...or more! (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:43:04 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Heh, I should have scrolled down (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:04:07 PM EST
    before responding....glad my recollection of choices falls in line with others :)

    [ Parent ]
    What has changed? (none / 0) (#191)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:02:14 PM EST
    My ballot generally has some 7 choices for president.

    The DNC is counting on that attitude, though. A democrat is a democrat is a democrat. I need to see something on the platform that would support that belief this time, and it just isn't there.


    [ Parent ]

    Sorry but no. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:20:12 PM EST
    The problem in this country goes much deeper than individual candidates. Our incredibly thin and stupid national discourse and the deep hatred that the media has against democrats is a very real problem that exists quite independantly of the candidates.

    By your logic the reason that Hillary lost the primary was her own fault. Do you believe that? I've never seen you write anything remotely close to that effect.

    [ Parent ]

    If the Florida/Michigan disaster (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:29:13 PM EST
    had not happened, I might have thought she lost fair and square.

    But it did.

    I believe this is drifting off-topic into personal attacks now. But I guess that is fine in the new and improved TalkLeft.

    I am not remotely interested in explaining myself to people who accuse me of all sorts of ridiculous things.

    Later.

    [ Parent ]

    Primaries may be over, but (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:04:06 PM EST
    we don't have a candidate with the experience, leadership, judgment or ability to sit in the oval office and make life-changing decisions for us.

    Instead of spending so much of his time putting campaign strategy to stage, it would be great if he would study and learn so his speeches reflected what the people NEED to hear from him. He is so far removed from what regular people (hundreds of millions) are concerned about.

    One well-studied speech a week would be so much better than daily stumbles.


    [ Parent ]

    You really have no clue (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST
    what Obama says on a regular basis, do you?  Instead you r

    I'm fairly certain Obama is able to sit in the Oval Office and make life-changing decisions.

    [ Parent ]

    I'm sure people (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:27:03 PM EST
    said the same thing about George Bush.

    [ Parent ]
    Oh, dear (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by sj on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:37:11 PM EST
    You're fairly certain?  You are a dedicated Obama supporter and you are only fairly certain?

    Oh, dear.

    [ Parent ]

    Difference Between Supporters and Zealots (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST
    See, as a supporter, dedicated some days more than others, I'm confident that Obama will handle presidential challenges well. Maybe even 'fairly certain', because, let's face it FISA knocked some of the bloom off his rose for many of us.

    Zealots elevate their candidate to hero status and know know know that (s)he will be PERFECT as president, or better than anyone else on the planet.

    It's funny around here sometimes: you praise your candidate too faintly, you're called on that as some kind of problem (oh, dear). You robustly promote her/his strengths and talents, you've...drunk the kool aid.

    [ Parent ]

    Were these his first hecklers? (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:49 PM EST
    I haven't heard of any fainting spells at his events during the past hot summer months.


    [ Parent ]
    It could mean something (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:02 PM EST
    far less optimistic.

    [ Parent ]
    In anti-Obama fan fiction, perhaps... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:23 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:36:32 PM EST
    he can't be carried to victory by the AA vote alone.  

    [ Parent ]
    Though Perhaps (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by The Maven on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:51 PM EST
    it could end up as "93.3291% instead of 93.3295% of the AA vote", but from a pool that's noticeably smaller than what his campaign is hoping for.  I agree that this wouldn't push AA voters into, say, the McKinney camp, but there's been a lot of expectation of turnout percentages being massively higher than they ever have been in the past, so this sort of thing could dampen that somewhat.

    [ Parent ]
    Trouble with a capital T (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:17 PM EST
    and that rhymes with G and that stands for General Election.

    [ Parent ]
    Net positive for Obama, I think (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:51 PM EST
    Same as the Jesse Jackson attack.

    I go back and forth on this (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by davnee on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:09:45 PM EST
    Part of me agrees that anytime he can be seen in opposition to an "angry black man" that's good for him.  He wants to be the Anti-Jackson or Anti-Sharpton in people's minds.  But then part of me thinks lots of people just might not want to deal with this at all.  Do voters out there in middle America want to sign up for 4 years of witnessing an internecine battle between black people, as the Jacksons and Sharptons of the world keep on asking President Obama what he's done for his people lately?  It may not be fair.  It may not be right.  But I can't help thinking that just might be the way lots of white voters feel.

    So while it is better to be Jackson's opposite in many white voters' minds, I agree, it might be best of all not to be associated with Jackson at all.

    [ Parent ]

    Nah (none / 0) (#125)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:15:39 PM EST
    The average white guy is not going to hold it against Obama that people like Jesse Jackson are stirring up trouble.  It's definitely a net benefit to him.

    [ Parent ]
    Looks like pushback on Rev. Jackson (none / 0) (#62)
    by wurman on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:41 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Maybe they were plants (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST
    intended to give Obama a chance to list all the great things he has said and done for AA's in this country, or at least in Illinois.


    This was my first thought (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:24 PM EST
    I wonder if his internal polling is seeing a little blowback from the lecture series to AAs.

    It's pretty clear that the dominant strategy is to max out participation among his base.  If he starts to lose even a few points amongs AAs, the latte crowd, or the college crowd, it's all over.

    That, I think, more than anything is why the campaign is jumping on the race-based arguments rather than issues.  They rile up the base.

    Remember the Maine!

    [ Parent ]

    Yeah, that must be it, they were plants (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by riddlerandy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:48 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    They were (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:04:01 PM EST
    activists from the International People's Democratic Uhuru Movement, a pan-African socialist group,

    says the Washington Post. I doubt Obama minded being heckled by them. Gave him his 'pan-African socialist group' moment, you might say.

    [ Parent ]

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:07 PM EST
    Fair enough.  Check out the InPDUM home page.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah, well that would explain (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:11:04 PM EST
    why that questioner kept repeatedly referring not to the "AA comm'y" but  to the "African community."

    Like I say, Obama earns solid points with the ordinary folks scoring at home with his level-headed, even-tempered response.

    I hope more such disturbances (of a nonviolent nature) occur before November.  If so, we could be looking at a major O landslide ...

    [ Parent ]

    Obama was extra smart in his response (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:21:08 PM EST
    to focus on the A-A community, while talking to a pan-African soucialist. He pulled off a rare double-souljah.  I didn't expect to see any of those until the Olympics.

    [ Parent ]
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:31:43 PM EST
    The funny part is, you and I get that these hecklers were from a group that is way out there, but you just know the clueless white guys in the media will report this as an indicator of some deep rift in the utterly monolithic African-American community.  "Tonight on CNN: Are blacks turning against Obama???"

    [ Parent ]
    God, so true (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:39:35 PM EST
    I can't even watch TV news anymore for just that reason. Factless reporting.

    [ Parent ]
    Jeez, Obama has all the luck. (5.00 / 11) (#17)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:28:42 PM EST
    There seems to be a never ending supply of people willing to self-Souljah themselves on his behalf.

    Ding, ding, ding (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:38 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    NO kidding!! Me too. (none / 0) (#56)
    by ghost2 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:29 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    I laughed so hard (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Jgarza on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:02:58 PM EST
    when I read that, I almost fell of my chair.  self-Souljah is my new fav word.

    [ Parent ]
    Self-souljah (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:06:12 PM EST
    is now in my lexicon. Beautiful.  I like it a lot better than 'threw themselves under the bus'.

    [ Parent ]
    Good for the hecklers.... (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
    I wish both candidates got heckled a helluva lot more than they do...and everywhere they go.

    Too often the security details and handlers are too adept at keeping dissenting voices out of the campaign events.  Since the media won't hold the candidate's feet to the fire, maybe concerned citizens will...I salute them for speaking out about their grievances...and getting past security:)

    OT: Joe Watkins (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:48 PM EST
    GOP strategist just said Obama was trying to stir up a race war. Since I am reliable told on other threads, that McCain is responsible for everything any member of the GOP says, is McCain in trouble now?

    You said you hadn't read (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:42 PM EST
    the other threads dealing with this.

    I suggest you do.

    [ Parent ]

    a search of comments only turns up this one (none / 0) (#43)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:11 PM EST
    with the words Joe Watkins. Your suggestion was not helpful.

    [ Parent ]
    Oy. (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:11 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    you know what (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    republicans are very smart.  while people like yourself are running around in a ferret fire drill wringing your hands about race they are defining Obama.
    please follow the link I provided up thread to see what they have in store for "the one".
    clue: it has absolutely nothing to do with race.

    [ Parent ]
    I am not the one running around yelling race card (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:57 PM EST
    Can you say the same?

    I have pointed out Republicans race bait.


    [ Parent ]

    OMG (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:56 PM EST
    republicans race bait!?
    REPUBLICANS. get out.
    follow the link.

    [ Parent ]
    did you follow the democratic primary? (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:32 PM EST
    Maybe McCain learned lessons from watching the race baiting that was used against Hillary.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe? (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:11 PM EST
    lol

    [ Parent ]
    Howard Wolfson (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM EST
    acknowledged that very fact in the NYT article this morning.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe you should actually study GOP tactics (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:31:18 PM EST
    since Goldwater. Let say for the sake of argument, that Hillary was race baited. Does that change GOP history?

    Try to look at the complete history coldly and not bring your passionate partisanship into it.

    Here let me give just one obvious example of GOP race baiting.

    [ Parent ]

    And maybe (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:54:22 PM EST
    a campaign that runs on a platform of change, an end to divisive politics, but then race baits his primary opponent and husband, then complains when the GOP uses the same tactics.

    History includes recent and distant past. I also remember the NAACP television ads in 2000.

    Both sides are guilty.

    [ Parent ]

    Frankly I don't care (5.00 / 0) (#200)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:14:12 PM EST
    I am not in love with Obama or Democrats. I do think the GOP is demonstratively worse for the country as a whole. The difference between you and me, is I recognize the obvious. You are too blinded by your partisanship loyalty to Hillary to see or care.

    Both sides do it is ultimately a cop out.  

    [ Parent ]

    You would be if you had been (none / 0) (#202)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:18:34 PM EST
    paying attention to the blogs and the news for the past two days.


    [ Parent ]
    gets my vote for description of the day: (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    "running around in a ferret fire drill"

    Although, maybe slightly demeaning to ferrets.

    [ Parent ]

    I love ferrets (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:55:14 PM EST
    used to have one.  but omg are they manic.

    [ Parent ]
    the issue here (5.00 / 9) (#29)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:31:23 PM EST
    is when Obama talks about all of his accomplishments in the ILL state senate, none  of those accomplishments were really of his doing.

    Obama accomplished nothing in the ILL state senate until his last year there.  That year was when the dems took control of the senate and had some actual power.  At that point Emil Jones led the senate and took all the important pieces of legislation away from their original authors who had done all the work and assigned those pieces of legislation to Obama.  Emil did this specifically to build a resume for Obama because he wanted to get him elected to the US Senate.

    yep (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    and don't think we're NOT going to hear about that as well as him finding Senate work boring, not being ready to run for President as he doesn't even know where the men's room is yet and his penchant for missing days and days and days of work.

    Expect also to get a run down of the legislation he's actually had a hand in since being elected that directly benefited his constituents (clue:  not much) and a running tally of votes missed and why (fundraising).

    All of the above will dovetail quite nicely with the Celebrity Dilettante Inexperienced theme they're presently constructing in contrast to McCain's long history in the Senate and all he's (I'm assuming) done for those who've elected him time and time again.

    [ Parent ]

    Obama's response reads better than it sounds (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:02 PM EST
    He did good to take the guy's question, but his response showed the halting delivery that is going to hurt him in Town Halls and debates and, I'm sure, GOP ads challenging his superior oratorical ability. Another example of it is here:

    link

    My worry about Obama has been that the hype has been so intense (the second coming of JFK, RFK, MLK and Diogenes--unflappable and cool--brush 'em off kinda guy) that he cannot possibly live up to it.

    He's been running on this hype with a lot of people who haven't really closely tuned in yet. When they do, moments like these when he seems flustered--even as he does the admirable thing and tries to listen to dissent--will stick a pin in that image and hurt him.

     

    Very true (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:45 PM EST
    his response was delayed as long as possible with his efforts to calm the angry crowd to allow the dissenter his chance to speak, and give Obama a chance to think back on what it was he was supposed to say in response.


    [ Parent ]
    That is the very definition of picayune (4.25 / 4) (#53)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:27 PM EST
    You guys simply will not be pleased by anything the man does.

    [ Parent ]
    Sure we will (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:55 PM EST
    he just hasn't done it yet.

    [ Parent ]
    It will be interesting (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:46 PM EST
    to see if this level of criticism continues three weeks from now....

    [ Parent ]
    Always wanted to know. . . (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:47 PM EST
    what "picayune" means.  I thought it was a newspaper, or something.  Are you sure it means "consumed with hatred of Barack Obama"?

    [ Parent ]
    I once smoked a Picayune cigarette (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:05:05 PM EST
    Are you sure it means "consumed with hatred of Barack Obama"?

    Perhaps that explains it....

    My being less-than-enchanted with Obama surely has no basis in rationality. ;)

    [ Parent ]

    Imply/infer. (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:37 PM EST
    Literal/figurative.  

    [ Parent ]
    FYI: I'm most likely voting for him (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:02:08 PM EST
    Is that not good enough? Or must I also take big gulps of Kool Aid and say "Mmmmmmm!"?

    Don't "you people" people you don't know.

    I'm critical of him, yes. I'm critical of his campaign. And I'm critical of the current Democratic "leadership" which inspired me to leave the party I'd been a member of for 32 years.

    All of that said, enabling the GOP to remain in control of the executive branch for at least four more years is WORSE than an Obama presidency, IMO, so I'll vote for him.

    But I tell you what: if his supporters continue to be little scolds nipping at ANY criticism of Obama, it's going to be harder and harder to drag myself to the polls on November 3.

    So think about this next time you want to "you people" someone.

    [ Parent ]

    Well said. (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by miriam on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:36:57 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Reminds me of Obama's (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:08 PM EST
    response to those who criticized his vote for FISA:

    Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine


    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:34:44 PM EST
    I have no idea who was the first candidate to speak about the Jena 6 issue, but I do recall that it was the subject of the first big blow-up between Obama and Jesse Jackson.  I guess these hecklers must tend more towards Jesse's perception of things.

    In any event, I'm glad Obama put out a statement saying the Sean Bell statement was a problem.  That sounds bold!

    It was exactly (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:33 PM EST
    as the hecklers stated, whether they were "real" hecklers or not.

    Link

    [ Parent ]

    It's only a small minority of people (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:50:25 PM EST
    who hear Obama's response that will research its accuracy.

    [ Parent ]
    Ah yes. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:51:36 PM EST
    Remember when we used to have a media?

    Me neither.

    [ Parent ]

    Exactly (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:53 PM EST
    Of course, had any other candidate made such claims, the fact checking would have been instant.


    [ Parent ]
    I think (none / 0) (#91)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:17 PM EST
    that both the hecklers and Obama were talking about the shooting itself, rather than the ultimate verdict.

    [ Parent ]
    Can't find it. Your turn. (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:44 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Okay (none / 0) (#121)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
    NY Daily News, 12/5/06:

    Elsewhere, Illinois senator and potential presidential candidate Barack Obama, in New York to give a speech for charity, weighed in on the shooting, saying the 50 bullets fired by five officers "strikes me as excessive." But Obama quickly added that police operate with restraint 99% of the time, although "this may be one of the times they did not."


    [ Parent ]
    The boldness! ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:32 PM EST


    [ Parent ]
    Just think (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:33:30 PM EST
    Amadou Diallo only got 41 bullets, less than Sean Bell.  It's entirely possible he was one of the lucky 99% who was treated with restraint.

    [ Parent ]
    Well (none / 0) (#176)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:46:04 PM EST
    Considering that 1% reflects about 221,337.86 arrests per year,  that is not a small number.


    [ Parent ]
    Well, there you go (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by sj on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:30:41 PM EST
    "Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine...."

    It definitely falls into the category of "the way I might have wanted him to speak out".  I think it may be have been better to say nothing than to say something so lame.

    On the other hand, it allowed him to truthfully say that he had spoken out.  Even if he actually said nothing.

    [ Parent ]

    Oh good job. I commend you. (none / 0) (#180)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:24 PM EST
    Actually, I to not repect people like The Rev. Al who pronounced the officers guilty before they were even charged.  So, Sen. Obama's statement, although waffley, is o.k. with me.  He was, after all, a con law professor.  

    [ Parent ]
    Senators Obama and Clinton's (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:10 PM EST
    statements on verdict in officer-involved shooting case re Sean Bell:

    NYT

    [ Parent ]

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:55 PM EST
    He withheld judgment, but urged community leaders and the police to come together and peacefully work through the tragedy.

    seems to me our community leaders and police WERE working together on this. iirc, Bloomberg was having sit downs in the community etc. Peaceful protests were planned etc. But thanks for the suggestion O.

    [ Parent ]

    Mind meld, oculus. (none / 0) (#66)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    If only I knew how to do that Vulcan sleephold too...;-)

    [ Parent ]
    He handled it fine (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:39:52 PM EST
    The hecklers were not removed, he asked them to wait until the Q & A session, he then answered their question in a thoughtful way.

    You're right... (5.00 / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:29 PM EST
    he seemed to handle it very well.

    What happened afterwards behind the scenes is another issue...I wouldn't be surprised if some staffer got his/her arse chewed out over not screening the attendees enough to make sure they all had kool-aid in 'em.

    [ Parent ]

    Yep, he kept his cool. (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:53:36 PM EST
    Shades of Ed Muskie, 1968.

    I like the way this one will play with the undecided WCWs when they see it on the tube today in their homes in FL and OH.

    And if Obama is smart, he'll give his event staffers a raise and tell them to just keep doing things the way they've been doing 'em.

    [ Parent ]