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Olympics Night Five Open Thread

Whether you are watching the Olympics as I am or want to talk about what you had for dinner or anything else, here's an open thread.

I'm also going to work on my Facebook and Twitter pages and widgets for instant updates of convention happenings.

I'm going to stop following bloggers and journalists on Twitter who use it only to upload every one of their posts. It clutters my inbox and I want to know what they are doing, not writing. I can check their blog for their blogposts. I wish bloggers would get a second twitter page for readers who want to read their blog via Twitter.

Facebook update below:

As I wrote a week or so ago, Facebook disabled my profile because it was in Talk Left's name instead of mine. I had to start over using a page I had in my name but I intended to reserve for personal friends.

When they disabled my TL profile, I lost my 300 plus Facebook friends. Facebook suggested I create a TalkLeft "page" (not the same thing as a "profile" or a "group" which I also had) which would be attached to my personal profile. They said they would transfer my 300 TL friends to the TalkLeft "page" as fans. That's nice, and it's been done, but "fans" aren't "friends" and they can't access my profile. Which kind of defeats the purpose and leaves me back where I started.

So, if you were a friend on the Talk Left page, or you weren't but want to be friends, send me a friend request here so I can add you.

Now, on to the Olympics.

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  • Display: Sort:
    A concern I have for Obama (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Key on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:37:54 PM EST
    With everything going on in Georgia, does Obama taking a vacation right now make him look bad?  McCain is being very vocal and trying to appear to be pro-active.  I'm worried that Obama is going to be criticized that taking a vacation shows he isn't really ready to lead from day one.

    Not saying I agree with this meme, just that I expect it to be a line used over and over again in the months to come.

    Thoughts?

    I agree... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by OrangeFur on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:41:41 PM EST
    ... that McCain has looked stronger on this so far. Whether or not you agree with him, his statements were bolder (Russia must stop.) than Obama's (War is bad; both sides should stop.), and he's making more of an effort to be seen as involved ("We are all Georgians now.").

    Parent
    Wonder what Francis Fukuyama (none / 0) (#6)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:44:08 PM EST
    thinks of the conflict?

    Parent
    You mean you are expecting an ad (5.00 / 0) (#11)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:50:21 PM EST
    that asks who you want answering the phone at 3:00 am, and it cuts to a clip of Obama pondering whether he will go body-surfing or get some shave ice?

    Yeah, I think McCain is going to have a field day with that.

    Parent

    similar to (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:02:53 PM EST
    Plane gors into WTC, Bush continues reading to school children.

    New Orleans floods, Bush eats cake, stays on trip.

    Russia and Georgia start a war, Obama stays on vacation.

    Oh wait, though, wasn't McCain somehow involved in the Bush trip during New Orleans?

    Parent

    Hubby was saying at dinner that McCain is calling (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:06:21 PM EST
    for everyone to get back to work to solve the energy problem but Obama is still in vacation.  This from a man whose mother was a Democratic poll worker back in her day; a man who majored in political science for his undergraduate degree; a man who has NEVER voted for a republican.  And now he's criticizing Obama for being on vacation and not out on the stump or in Congress working.  How many more are there like Hubby?

    Parent
    the dems invited al this (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:10:14 PM EST
    crticism earlier by complaining about how long the primary was taking and how there was so little time for Obama to campaign against McCain.  And, now he's been on vacation twice since saying that.

    Parent
    Who here cares what Pelosi has to say (none / 0) (#181)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:41:24 AM EST
    after the May 31st debacle, or before that for that matter?

    link

    You aren't gracious if you don't do what Pelosi wants....lmao

    Parent

    Yes, exactly. (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Key on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:20:06 PM EST
    America's tired of the vacationing president.  Obama has been working to link Bush and McCain.  McCain is more of Bush and so on.  But with this one issue, McCain will say that America can't afford a vacationing president.  By doing that he'll not only hit Obama, but help to distance himself from our current vacationing president.


    Parent
    Obama probably really needs... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by EL seattle on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:03:40 PM EST
    ... some rest.  He's like a world class sprinter who's running in his first marathon.  I'd imagine that the daily grind of a year-long campaign is not easy for the uninitiated.  It's better for him to rest now than to crash in October.  This is one of those places where past experience really helps, I guess.

    I am surprised that I haven't seen a lot of skillful organization in sending out effective and official surrogates to address the daily news, though.  (But I might not be looking in the right places.)

    Parent

    Yeah Man (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:43:35 PM EST
    Give the guy a break. Jeeze!

    Parent
    Since it looks like Europe (none / 0) (#167)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:20:56 AM EST
    may, for instance, see him as the next President - he must be c.a.r.e.f.u.l. what he says about a matter of this magnitude.  He is listening to Samantha Powers and Ziggy?  Well, he is certainly getting the whole spectrum.

     

    Parent

    Apparently obama doesn't care.... (none / 0) (#76)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:45:21 PM EST
    Saw some footage of him walking (none / 0) (#86)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:04:46 PM EST
    on the beach today. Didn't look like he was having fun, it was very posed...dressed like he was just off the golf course and pretending he didn't know that journalist and his/her camera were there. One of his traveling companion journalists, for sure.

    Parent
    He probably couldn't find a gym, (5.00 / 0) (#166)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 03:30:28 AM EST
    so cut him some slack, okay?!!!!  

    </snark>

    Parent

    A singer/songwriter I just (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:38:37 PM EST
    discovered while using my zenstone which was programmed by my significant other:  Amanda McBroom with a story song called Errol Flynn about her father.  I heard Barbara Cook sing it on my 3 mile am walk - shivers and tears.  Forthwith, I ordered it from the net.  

    She may be well known but first I've heard of her -

    Boycotting the Olympics and annoying all my friends yet once again.  But I'm happy for Phelps.

    She also wrote "The Rose" (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:23:23 PM EST
    The song Bette Midler sang in the movie of the same name.

    The name rang a bell when I read it, so I looked it up.  I'm good at music trivia, but not that good. Not after I hit 50 anyway.

    Parent

    thanks - it was on the album (none / 0) (#72)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:43:34 PM EST
    - oops - cd I ordered.  I listened to her on the computer for a bit - nice voice.

    Parent
    then - can you tell me (none / 0) (#77)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:46:15 PM EST
    who sings that interesting version of Over the Rainbow?  The one that's not Judy.  It's a guy.

    Parent
    I know the one you mean (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:01:12 PM EST
    I'm thinking Jeff Buckley maybe?

    Parent
    I'm probably wrong on the Jeff Buckley there (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:09:15 PM EST
    I don't see it on iTunes anyway - lots of male versions though.  Eric Clapton does a good one, maybe that's what I was thinking of.

    Parent
    thanks - I'll try. (none / 0) (#108)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:29:27 PM EST
    Maybe it's Izzy's version? (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by EL seattle on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:09:27 PM EST
    Israel Kamakawiwo'ole did a version that's just about perfect.

    Parent
    I'll listen and find out. thx. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:30:38 PM EST
    Yes - that's it - (none / 0) (#138)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:16:05 PM EST
    I love it - I don't like Rufus Wainwright's version.  Jason Castro does a version of Israel's - and it's lovely.

    Parent
    I love Jason Castro's voice (none / 0) (#163)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:28:29 AM EST
    and I hope someone will sign him so he can produce an album.  

    He's got that old "throwback to the folk singers" kind of thing going on.  I just loved listening to him sing.  

    Parent

    Or (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:10:52 PM EST
    Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (IZ) did the version that includes "Wonderful World" in medley. Very popular and often used in background.

    Eva Cassidy (female, though) also did a beautiful version of "Over the Rainbow".

    Parent

    thanks - I'll listen. (none / 0) (#110)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:31:09 PM EST
    Eva Cassidy's... (none / 0) (#175)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:09:50 AM EST
    "Autumn Leaves" is the best version of that song I've ever heard. And her "Rainbow" is beautiful indeed.

    Parent
    Too much drama - but I love (none / 0) (#139)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:23:08 PM EST
    that his mother accompanies him - thanks.

    Parent
    So far, so good... (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by OrangeFur on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:39:06 PM EST
    The Olympics seem to be going well so far--spectacular Opening Ceremony, events running smoothly, a lot of strong performances from the athletes, not so much news about the air pollution recently, and the usual happy stories about how friendly and polite everyone from everywhere is.

    We're living in an era of cynicism, and perhaps every era is an era of cynicism, no matter what we think in retrospect, but--knock on wood--the Olympics appear to be serving their purpose so far.

    Why is boxing still an (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:44:35 PM EST
    Olympic sport.  I know...I know.  But I cringe.  

    Well (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:53:58 PM EST
    Amateur boxing isn't real boxing.

    Then again, real boxing, where we pay lots of money to two guys from the ghetto to beat the crap out of one another, is pretty creepy.

    The object of the game, after all, is to bounce your opponent's brain off the inside of his skull enough times for him to go unconscious, and then you win.  Not sure who came up with that one.

    Parent

    Years ago, make that decades (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:36:20 PM EST
    ago when I was young, a guy I was with loved to watch it. I never got what was appealing about watching two men (or women these days) beating on each other.

    He used to say: Man a mano.....it's basic, the essence of human nature
    I used to say: BULL

    Parent

    This Commenter (none / 0) (#112)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:34:58 PM EST
    still loves boxing.  I love to watch it, read about it, listen to Bert Sugar or Larry Merchant talk about it... I have a boxing jones.

    Parent
    Me too.... (none / 0) (#188)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:41:53 PM EST
    I love the sweet science...and compared to ultimate fighting it looks tame.

    It's an unbelievable workout too...I can play b-ball or soccer all day long, but after sparring for a couple 2 minutes rounds my legs are mush.  Yeah...me and the fellas lace 'em up on occasion and beat the crap out of each other:) Fun stuff!

    I guess it's a guy thing.

    Parent

    please tell me (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:49:59 PM EST
    the breathy, high-pitched female announcer who won't shut up is only on for the diving. Otherwise I don't think I can watch without muting. Her voice is too annoying. And she's a know it all.

    No, she won't. I have decided that Gloria Borger (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:52:23 PM EST
    is doing the diving commentary.

    Parent
    She's terrible isn't she? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:54:20 PM EST
    I swear if she says sychronicity one more time....

    she's almost as bad as the woman doing commentary for the sailing events. I swear last night she put me to sleep.

    Parent

    IF she says anything positive, she'll be sure to (none / 0) (#23)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:57:48 PM EST
    follow up with a negative. I ironed blouses instead of listening to her earlier tonight.

    Parent
    J - I had to mute that woman - she is a total (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:57:20 PM EST
    buzzkill.  I guess she thinks she's educating us in the finer points, but it's making me nuts.

    My one complaint is that these commentators just can never shut up - I love my mute button!

    Parent

    I'm all about the mute button too (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:02:21 PM EST
    since I'm lucky enough to have tivo, I can always rewind and unmute if in an extreme situation, I really want to hear the commentators.

    It's really too bad, because I like learning about things -- why one dive is harder than others, and info about the athletes, but it's just too much to listen to her.

    The gymnastics commentators are as bad, only it's all 3 of them.  The older male one is really, really bitter about how they changed the scoring system.  I wonder if he knits!

    Parent

    It's revelatory (none / 0) (#154)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:28:44 AM EST
    to hear the way the Brits handle this stuff-- probably 10 percent of the self-important yak-yak we get.  U.S. media have an absolute horror of "dead air."  Feh.

    Parent
    What about the restaurant thing Mary Carillo (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:00:16 PM EST
    did earlier tonight?  The food looked gross and so did Mary.  Am I the only one who is bothered by her?  She just never shuts up when she's doing tennis commentary.  And her "I'm a little teapot" thing was ugh.  Even my sweet husband said so.  

    Maybe I'm just in a foul mood but I really like to WATCH the sports rather than listen to these people who love the sound of their own voices.

    Parent

    hated the teapot thing (none / 0) (#33)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:04:04 PM EST
    and she's very self-absorbed, it was more about her than the food. And she had the same reaction to every food, "its very, very  good." How desccriptive (not.)

    Parent
    My husband worked in Beijing many years ago (none / 0) (#38)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:10:16 PM EST
    and is quite familiar with the food (always packed peanut butter and crackers in his luggage!).  He says some of that stuff is really gross.  

    He was the guest of honor at a dinner one evening and was offered the eyeball from the soup.  Apparently it is quite an honor to be offered this "delicacy."  He said he gagged but was able to swallow it without puking.  Something he will always remember...

    Parent

    I would have pulled a George H Bush on them. (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:26:27 PM EST
    That would never have made it to my stomach.

    Parent
    We shop at a lot of Asian supermarkets (none / 0) (#164)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:39:47 AM EST
    in LA and a lot of those foods are quite common.  Some of them are actually good if you get a chance to taste them -- but without tasting them, you'd never know it (because they look different from what we are used to).  

    I've seen some really crazy things in the ethnic supermarkets in LA.  

    Parent

    Better than the (none / 0) (#155)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:30:57 AM EST
    totally xenophobic segment CNN has been showing about the ha-ha, hee-hee, gross stuff the Chinese food stalls are selling.  Haven't we grown up enough to do without screaming "Ew!" at other cultures' food, for crying out loud?

    Parent
    I agree ... (none / 0) (#189)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:42:14 PM EST
    and the story last night on NBC was the second one they'd done on "wacky Chinese food."

    NBC is in the capital of a country with one of the oldest and most fascinating cultures in the world and this is the best they can come up with?

    Parent

    I liked her feature yesterday... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:11:11 PM EST
    ... on the guy who's job it was to show porn to pandas in an effort to get them to mate :)

    Parent
    the best part of that (none / 0) (#46)
    by Little Fish on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:15:32 PM EST
    is apparently they show the male pandas "videos" to get them in the mood.

    Parent
    And this differs from male homo-sapiens how? (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:16:54 PM EST
    Well, the male homo sapien... (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:19:36 PM EST
    ... doesn't generally need a lot of motivation to have sex, unlike, apparently, the panda.

    Parent
    I liked that piece (none / 0) (#70)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:42:30 PM EST
    They have poor conditions in some of their zoos and such and aren't always the best for animal welfare, so it was nice to see. He was using positive training for the exercise and seemed to genuinely like the pandas. I've seen photos of the panda babies from there before, so it was nice to see a bit about the place.

    Parent
    Mary is never good esp with women's tennis (none / 0) (#64)
    by Nike on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:35:57 PM EST
    She is just so conflicted: it's all cult of personality analysis; you just never hear her actually calling the match. Whenver Bud Collins does a guest, it is such a relief to hear someone who likes the players and loves the sport.

    Parent
    I'm glad the competitors (none / 0) (#29)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:02:03 PM EST
    can't hear her drivel.

    Parent
    I am lucky to be able to (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:56:34 PM EST
    watch the CBC instead of NBC when it gets bac. I have to give the CBC props. Their commentators shut up during events and they show some really diverse sports.

    Parent
    Oops (none / 0) (#142)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:56:55 PM EST
    when it gets *bad.

    Parent
    Yes, she's pretty annoying... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:10:49 PM EST
    and so is Tim Dagget in gynastics.  I just scream at the tube..."SHUT UP TIM".  He just irritates me...not sure why.
    But if one more NBC correspondent just has to talk to Alicia Sacramone again, I will slap them (and I don't even believe in hitting).  But LEAVE THE KID ALONE.  She feels lousy....she's worked a lot of years and did the routines perfectly a million times and lost concentration.  She's feels bad enough (and she shouldn't because there were a lot of factors,i.e. pressure due to the injuries of two of the gymnasts.  And the Chinese girls were good.  And deeper than the American team.  All of them were phenomenal athletes.  I used to coach gymnastics and man, I tell you, those girls do things I never thought possible).

    So sad about the Dem Chair in Arkansas.

    Still deciding whether or not to drive up to Denver during the convention. I really would love to see Hillary.

    Parent

    My Hillary t-shirts arrived today. I can't wait (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:13:39 PM EST
    to wear mine next time I'm with my Obama friend!

    Parent
    My heart just broke for Alicia (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:18:06 PM EST
    when the poor kid knelt down to get herself together and the camera was right there, not giving her even a moment.

    Anyone who's ever been a competitor, or has a child who has ever competed, knows that awful feeling.

    Parent

    Yeah, I don't need to see her in emotional pain (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:07:42 PM EST
    I can imagine what she's feeling just as well without feeling like I'm up in her face.

    Sigh.  Everyone I know complains about the insipidity of the commentators, I'm not sure why they keep going with the same ones.  I mean, I can't imagine there's a lot of folks out there thinking "oh well, I really don't care for gymnastics, but I REALLY want to listen to Tim Dagget".

    Parent

    I have to give her MAJOR props (none / 0) (#96)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:13:49 PM EST
    she held it together in an interview at the beginning of the late night segment. I felt the interviewer was really pushing on the questions and you could tell she was still hurting. Very brave, beautiful young lady.

    I wish she had made it into the individual comps. I really liked her when I watched her in the trials and I think she could have pulled herself back and done well.

    Parent

    She did (none / 0) (#162)
    by dissenter on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 02:26:05 AM EST
    She made vault finals:)

    Parent
    My favorite (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:00:04 PM EST
    thing to hate is when the gymnastics commentator says "this is a disaster!!".  

    I feel like telling him, "no honey, Hurricane Katrina was a disaster, this is just a bad night."

    Nobody died because somebody fell off a balance beam.

    I saw the same guy criticize someone from another country's team because she was laughing after she screwed up.  Now there's a person with perspective.  It certainly does you no good for the next event if you think every mistake is a "disaster".

    Something that never (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:13:08 PM EST
    used to bug me, but does now....

    You know how female gymnasts would complete a routine and then return to the sidelines and talk to their coach?  I never blinked at that, but now I wonder - why?  Can't they take a minute and just enjoy themselves?  Celebrate with your team mates, fine.  Somehow the whole the whole consult immediately with coach routine just seems to underline the idea that the coach is in control and that winning is all.  At least in ice skating I get the impression that they are having fun.

    If I could do what they do...even half that, that would be incredible!

    Parent

    This group looks to be more friendly and (none / 0) (#90)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:09:15 PM EST
    good-spirited than the 2004 team, though.

    Parent
    That would be Tim Dagget (none / 0) (#41)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:11:39 PM EST
    and his hysteria, doom and gloom over the performances has ALWAYS made me crazy.

    Parent
    I like Michael Phelps (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:40:23 PM EST
    but god, the hype is just so unbearable!

    The entire time he's racing the announcers are like "watch, this is going to be so incredible!" "you're seeing history made!"  It gets to the point where whatever actually happens can't help but be anticlimactic.  Dick Vitale would be calmer.

    And of course, the way they treat all his relay teammates - incredible athletes, one and all - like their sole purpose in life is to help Michael Phelps win gold medals is just sickening.

    Chris Collingsworth (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:45:17 PM EST
    basically just told Jason Lesak, the swimmer who amazingly caught up to the French swimmer to win the relay the other night, that he will go down in history for helping Michael Phelps.  I wish Lesak had clocked him, but he was very gracious and said that actually he had a great race himself and really wanted the medal for the team.

    I swear the sports reporters are worse than the political reporters about making everything fit in terms of their narrative.

    Parent

    Ugh! (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:23:59 PM EST
    and then followed it up with a haw-haw with Bob Costas at Lesak's answer!

    In the meantime, I just glanced up from TL to hear Rowdy talking about Phelps' toes!  His toes for cryin' out loud!  What's next, an analysis of his nose hair?

    I'm beginning to wish some other swimmer would win one of the races so they'd stop talking about Phelps' quest for the most golds in one game ever, except I'm sure then all we'd hear about is what a tragedy it is!

    Parent

    For a minute I thought Chris looked a little (none / 0) (#116)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:41:39 PM EST
    embarrassed at himself when they came back from the tape of the interview, then Costas rescued him and they compared Lezak to Bret Farve in some twisted way.  Not their finest hour, that's for sure.

    Parent
    Wow, I popped out to the store (none / 0) (#103)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:20:53 PM EST
    and missed that! My G^D! I think anyone who watched that race knows the real story. Yeah, he may have "helped" Phelps, but D@MN! that was one singular amazing accomplishment. Yes, it was a team effort, but that final leg will be the tape we all watch in the future.

    Isn't he also the "old" guy on the team?

    I have to say, I've liked Chris so far because of his excitement and enjoyment as a "spectator".  

    Parent

    Yeah - very similar to Matt Lauer this (none / 0) (#121)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:44:33 PM EST
    morning talking to Ricky Berens about his being on the gold-medal team from the 4 x 200 relay...was there extra pressure knowing he could be helping Phelps make history?  You'd think Lauer could have some respect for this kid winning a gold in his first Olympics.

    Phelps is a real competitor and loves to win, but he's also a team player with a lot of respect for his fellow swimmers - he's the first to give props to his teamates and frame his own leg of the race as just part of a team effort.  

    Too bad the commentators can't see that.

    What stunned me was reading the other day that Mark Spitz was not even invited to these games - not by the IOC, not by NBC - so when Phelps breaks his record, Spitz won't even be on hand as part of that picture.  Seems cold to me.


    Parent

    The most amazing thing I've ever seen (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by stxabuela on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:52:04 PM EST
    was Lezak's anchor leg on the men's 4x100.  That was outstanding--like he turned on afterburners the last 25 meters.  

    Parent
    It was (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:57:44 PM EST
    i was so glad I caught that race.

    Spoiler alert:

    Lezak just won himself a bronze in the 100 m freestyle.  His first individual medal.  I'm really happy for him.  Bernard, the French swimmer he beat the other night, won the gold. And I must say, he also wins my personal 'best shoulders' gold medal.

    Parent

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:05:33 PM EST
    Right up there with Kerri Strug's vault on a sprained ankle.  Unforgettable.

    Parent
    And now Chelsie Memmel's broken ankle (none / 0) (#160)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:27:38 AM EST
    last week that only now is being reported for how bad it was -- it had been called only an injured ankle, like a bit of a bruise.  But she hung in there to help the team take the silver medal last night.  

    Saw her mother interviewed tonight -- Memmel is a hometowner here, so it may not have been on the networks -- saying that "a little broken ankle" was not going to stop her.  Memmel has had a lot of bad breaks in terms of bad luck, but really. . . .  I am trying to imagine how those landings from the bars last night must have felt.  

    Memmel is having some pain when she walks today, we're told.  Huh, d'ya think?  Yikes.

    Btw, also got a gander at an x-ray of the metal bar and pins put into Paul Hamm's hand.  It's awful.  I hope these young'uns aren't setting up problems in their later years.

    Parent

    Met a college student (none / 0) (#168)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:32:38 AM EST
    who swam competitively from about 10 years old through high school.  So I asked her if swimmers are prone to injuries like some other sports young girls compete in.  She said she never had injuries, but she can feel it in her shoulders now.  That's not bad for eight years of intense competition and training.

    I wonder what the injury severity and rate looks like in various sports.  I don't think I've seen a single Olympics that didn't have at least on gymnast injured.

    Parent

    But again, it is the media (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:05:40 AM EST
    I can not fault Michael for being a great swimmer and winning. If the media goes nuts, it is the media. So I want him to win all he can. He says he is taking off until February. Michael did not just walk into these wins. He had to train. But, he is a natural swimmer and I give him great credit. I would prefer to see him in competition than a football or baseball player who is over paid and over hyped. BTW, tonight he seemed tired. Only 5 more swims and he can vacation for a few months. My neighbor just wishes she could get her 19 year old motivated to get a job.

    Parent
    LMAO. I know what you mean. (none / 0) (#111)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:33:58 PM EST
    I've gotten so sick of the announcers and press coverage that I've turned to rooting for him to lose one. The way they fawn over him reminds me of the media coverage of another lanky guy with big ears.

    Parent
    They always overkill it, don't they? (none / 0) (#120)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:44:22 PM EST
    They just don't know when enough is enough.  We get it - yes, amazing swimmer.  Let's talk about some of the others too.

    Parent
    It was the same with Mark Spitz (none / 0) (#157)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:34:14 AM EST
    way back when.  All Spitz all the time.  Yearrgggh.

    Parent
    Keith, mirror. Mirror, Keith. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Little Fish on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:06:02 PM EST
    Today on Countdown Keith Olbermann took Rush Limbaugh to task for some nasty things Rush said about Elizabeth Edwards. Keith prefaced this by talking about new puritanism and "that when new puritanism attacks a sinner like say Bill Clinton it invariably overdoes it to a degree that America recoils and soon perceives the sinner as the victim and the new puritan as the jackass" and then later brings up how when Rush and his gang kept going after Bill Clinton, Clinton's approval ratings went up.

    The hypocrisy is just too much.
    Here's the video, watch at your own peril.


    I'll take your word for it (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by stxabuela on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:11:08 PM EST
    I've been Olbermann-free since February, and I feel so much better.  

    Parent
    Have I mentioned how much happier I am (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:15:55 PM EST
    since I stopped watching MSNBC? So much less BS in my head.  I recommend it!

    Parent
    heh! (none / 0) (#100)
    by Little Fish on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:17:31 PM EST
    I only caved to watch this video because I wanted to see Rush taken down for the crappy comments he made. Silly me thinking I could watch MSNBC without  wanting to throw up.

    My brother still watches Countdown religiously. We don't talk about that.

    Parent

    Why are they getting rid of baseball (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:12:57 PM EST
    and softball yet they have silly stuff like pairs diving? Not enough diving to make building a facililty worthwhile? A baseball field is an onerous financial burden? I know they rotate some sports but that leaves only soccer(and maybe water polo) as a team sport(I know the other sports have teams but you know what I mean).

    I love baseball (none / 0) (#101)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:17:48 PM EST
    but there are plenty of chances to see it at all levels without it being in the Olympics too.  I can't say I will miss it.

    Pairs diving though - that's something you don't see everyday :-)

    Parent

    I was thinking of the players. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:47:06 PM EST
    How many opportunities do other countries get to beat the US at our own game? Though probably not enough countries even have a team to make it competitive. You're right though-plenty of baseball to watch! I get to watch my team lose almost every day. : (


    Parent
    U.S.A. didn't make it to the (none / 0) (#171)
    by oculus on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 07:28:50 AM EST
    finals of the first World Baseball Classic.

    Parent
    They said (none / 0) (#104)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:22:15 PM EST
    that one of the reasons they aren't keeping softball is that the US is just too dominant.  Not enough competition for it to be interesting.

    I personally find softball uninteresting because the pitchers just have too much of an advantage at the highest levels.  I love a great pitching performance, but every game shouldn't have 15 strikeouts.

    Parent

    I suppose that's a reason. (none / 0) (#114)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:40:09 PM EST
    Sure players everywhere are very disappointed, though. I don't find it that interesting to watch either.

    Parent
    They are considering moving the mound back (none / 0) (#186)
    by DFLer on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:42:08 AM EST
    for softball.

    Parent
    Do the Chinese (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:49:04 PM EST
    seriously have a famous athlete named Li-Ning?

    Do you suppose they would name a tower after him?!

    And someone here was so insistent (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:57:24 PM EST
    that no work was required for a ticket. The very thought of such a thing was ridiculous. Guess not.

    Is Beach Volleyball (none / 0) (#1)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:37:37 PM EST
    the only sport they are playing this year?  Apparently that's what NBC thinks.

    And, if the women have to play in their bras and panties, why don't the men have to play in their underwear?

    My question exactly: if the women have (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:47:43 PM EST
    to be in itty-bitty bikinis, the least the Olympics could offer us is men in Speedos jumping around in the sand.

    My other question is: why is beach volleyball an Olympic sport?

    The time difference is killing me: two nights of gymnastics finals that weren't over until late - like 12:30 am late.  My husband wanted to see the women's gymnastics, but gave up after a couple hours of women's synchro diving and beach volleyball.

    And as much as I like Michael Phelps - he went to the same high school I did (albeit many years later, lol) and he is truly an awesome athlete, the media kind of does a disservice to the other swimmers by making it all about Michael.  This morning I saw Matt Lauer (a 60-watt person who thinks he is the brightest bulb in the room) interview the young man who swam the third leg of last night's 800 meter free relay.  This was this kid's first Olympics, he was part of a gold-medal team, and Lauer asks (paraphrasing), "Did you feel a lot of pressure knowing that this race was part of Michael's quest for record gold?"  Credit to this kid, who paused for a moment before saying that Michael takes it one race at a time, and that they all just wanted to win.

    What a tool.

    Parent

    Hey, Phelps' incredibly low-slung (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:55:39 PM EST
    uni is giving me more of an eyeful than I need.

    Was the other swimmer interviewed Garrett Weber-Gale?  I can't recall if he swam third.  He's a hometowner here who ought to get more credit -- as, of course, ought all on a relay, repeat, relay team.

    Parent

    No, it was Ricky Berans. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:03:54 PM EST
    It wasn't the super-exciting relay from Sunday night, but last night's 800 meter relay.  The Americans finished a full 5+ seconds ahead of the second-place Russian team.

    Parent
    I fell asleep last night (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:29:06 PM EST
    in the middle of the swimming relay.  Guess I have hit the wall in my swimming viewing.  Michael Phelps can swim 17 races easier than I can watch them.

    Parent
    May I use your 60 watt line (none / 0) (#9)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:49:31 PM EST
    without giving credit?

    Parent
    Absolutely - be my guest! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:53:56 PM EST
    The man makes my teeth hurt.

    Parent
    WORD (none / 0) (#12)
    by Little Fish on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:52:20 PM EST
    the least the Olympics could offer us is men in Speedos jumping around in the sand.

    I was trying to come up with some logical reasons for the disparity between the women's beach volleyball uniforms and the men's. I can only come up with one.

    Parent

    I think the answer... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:58:21 PM EST
    ... is that beach volleyball has always been a commercial sport, not an amatuer one. And the bikinis sell. I'm sure the women are allowed to wear whatever they want, but what they are used to wearing are the bikinis.

    Parent
    Actually, they have to wear the bikinis (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:19:29 PM EST
    well then (none / 0) (#106)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:26:24 PM EST
    I think the men should have to wear bikinis too.  And, normally in Beach volleyball, t he men don'r wear shirts.  So, why are they wearing shirts now?

    Parent
    I'm with you, (none / 0) (#187)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:12:01 PM EST
    all the women divers should be wearing bikinis like the men divers do. The softball players, however, can keep their shirts on.

    Parent
    It's way too late. Tonight is live until 1:00 am (none / 0) (#19)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:55:52 PM EST
    and tomorrow also if they end on time. That will be the individual gymnastic events. I'm not going to be able to do it tonight. I've been up past 1:00 each night since Sunday and have to get up by 6:30 and I'm beat. What is NBC thinking? They could at least start at 7:00 instead of 8:00.

    I hope their ratings stink after 11.

    Parent

    I know it makes it late (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:31:11 PM EST
    but I do like that it is live.  That makes a difference to me, for some reason - not watching it 'canned'.  But last night I missed a lot because I fell asleep.

    Parent
    I do too. I can't believe it but I just can't make (none / 0) (#65)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:36:15 PM EST
    it tonight. I nearly fell asleep at my desk today. If you make it, root on Jonathan Horton in the gymnastics. I'm going to try hard not to hear how he does so I can watch tomorrow. Phelps only has a semifinal tonight and surely he will make it to the final.

    Parent
    'night Teresa! Not sure how long I'll last either (none / 0) (#69)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:41:00 PM EST
    Matt may not be very bright (none / 0) (#25)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:59:02 PM EST
    But, he doesn't llok too bad in his beach wear for anold man
    http://www.tmz.com/photos/matt-lauer/64978/

    Parent
    I've long thought (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:55:10 PM EST
    they should go back to the original Greek practice and have all the athletes compete in the nude.  Sure would make the ice-skating a lot more interesting...


    Parent
    I don't think the ski jumpers would go for that. (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:59:28 PM EST
    Ha! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:03:23 PM EST
    well come on though (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by TimNCGuy on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:05:16 PM EST
    the originals were only the summer olympics.  Although, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go along with naked bike riding.  That would chafe

    Parent
    Yeah, exactly (none / 0) (#59)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:30:23 PM EST
    If they're going to add stuff beyond the originals, they should contemplate whether they really want to do it naked or not.

    Parent
    And I want to know (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:13:27 PM EST
    How do the ladies keep the bikini bottoms from moving.  I would love to have the kind of body that can not only wear the bikini and look great and athletic, but have the ability to keep the bottom from moving. That must be some tight spandex those suits are made of.......

    Parent
    Well, if I had the body to be able to wear one (none / 0) (#47)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:16:05 PM EST
    of those bikinis I really would not care if the bottoms moved.

    Parent
    Yea that's true (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:20:20 PM EST
    maybe.....back when I could wear one, like four decades ago, when the "itsy bitsy teenie weenie, yellow polkdot bikini" song was a hit, my fear when swimming was losing the bottoms.

    But good body or not, I think I would not be comfortable being that exposed to much of the world.
    8}

    Parent

    My wife said they have to use glue??? (none / 0) (#63)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:33:19 PM EST
    Beauty pageant contestants use some (none / 0) (#97)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:14:11 PM EST
    sort of glue stuff to keep their b suits from riding up (or down).  Maybe that is what they use.  But I'd think being in the sun and getting all sweaty would negate the effects.

    These are the questions I would really like to know the answers to.

    Did folks hear the bit on what Phelps eats for breakfast each day?  It was like 5 Grand Slams at Dennys.

    Parent

    About Phelps...... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:52:38 PM EST
    great kid it seems...tremendous athlete.  
    I suspected he has Marfan's syndrome.   Then I read on a site that in his book, he confirms it but that he is checked every 6 months to make sure his aorta and heart are OK.

    My family has FAA (Familial Aortic Aneurysm) which comes from CTD (Connective Tissue Disorder).  Marfan's is one of the many syndromes in CTD....and it is often a silent killer.  Years aga Flo Hymen, a olympic Volleyball player (1976) was playing a match and died suddenly.  Her aorta burst.....turns out she had Marfans.  It's more readily diagnosed and followed now and one of the hallmarks of Marfans is a weak ascending aorta (which is what affects my family (two sudden deaths and several now diagnosed).  Except we are not Marfans.  

    Anyway he is an amazing athlete and part of it is the flexibility that also comes with CTD.  They were saying today how he can bend his (large) feet at amazing angles which then can propel better.  
    And his arm span is wider than he is tall (a classic sign of Marfans).   Apparently his is mild enough so that so far he has not had the aorta affect yet.  

    I thought it was interesting...along with how much food he has to eat.

    Parent

    Hm (none / 0) (#130)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:54:18 PM EST
    I measured last night and my wingspan is 3 inches more than my height.  Should I be worried?!

    Parent
    That's not the only (none / 0) (#177)
    by Jjc2008 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:22:57 AM EST
    criteria.  
    My whole family (cousins, nephews, nieces) are in a study at Cornell University in NY due to the fact that three people were affected by burst, ascending aorta (two died, one, an Aunt survived).  
    One was my sister so I was checked and found to have the same aortic problem (aneurysm at the root).  I went to a medical geneticist and so did my one cousin who lived out here.   They did genetic tests...the one for Marfans is looking at physical feature (like arm span).  But that alone I do not think qualifies.  Our family does not have the physical manifestations of true Marfans except so many of us have dilated aortic roots, a sign of CTD.  Ours has no real name so we are labeled Familial Aortic Aneurysm (FAA).  If a person looks like Marfans they can easily check things like eyes and cardiovascular system to confirm.

    But Michael has other physical features too that made me think of it plus his height and build seems to be unique in his family.

    In fact some of the findings in Marfan are also found in the regular population.  And a person can have a few of those physical signs and not have Marfans or could.  
    If you are really concerned I suggest asking your doctor to check you out.  

    Parent

    Lots of taut muscle (none / 0) (#58)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:29:46 PM EST
    not so much jiggly adipose tissue.

    I admit to being in awe of those bodies.  Makes me laugh thinking of those magazines that promise "5 weeks to a flat belly!".  No, I think a belly like that takes a lot more...

    Parent

    You have to be born with (none / 0) (#62)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:31:23 PM EST
    a belly like that.

    Parent
    No. (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:52:45 PM EST
    I was born with a belly like that. It was concave until I was 30. It was concave again after both of my divorces when I lost 30 pounds. It will, alas, never be concave again. Because I will never be divorced again, because I will never marry again, and because it isn't healthy to have a concave belly when you're old.

    <sigh>

    At least now I know that anyone who loves me isn't just in love with my concave belly.

    Parent

    Biggest shock of my life (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:00:14 AM EST
    was how quickly everything on my body expanded after "the change," despite no difference in eating/exercise habits.  I'm still pretty slim, but all the proportions have readjusted, and not for the better.  But I never had a belly like those gals, not even when I was 20 and in love and thin and had a waist I would kill for now.  (sigh)

    Parent
    Makes me admire (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Grace on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 03:04:03 AM EST
    Kirstie Alley for all that weight she lost -- and she's in her mid 50's.  She looked great after she lost it but I know it wasn't "super easy."

    Parent
    They probably use glue, like they do (none / 0) (#74)
    by PssttCmere08 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:44:01 PM EST
    in the beauty pageants, so they don't ride up.

    Parent
    Wonkette (none / 0) (#20)
    by Edger on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:56:04 PM EST
    Laura is either oblivious to George's struggle to (none / 0) (#169)
    by DeborahNC on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:35:03 AM EST
    get out of his seat without falling down or she's pretending not to be with the guy (impossible, I know).

    Most of the people around him are showing concern, even those two people farther down the steps. They're reaching up as if they think he might need to be caught.

    And then there's Laura in her usual trance-like state. She should say something to quell the alarm of the crowd, like, "Don't worry. I've seen him like this many times. He'll be okay."

    Bush has been in office almost 8 years, and I still can't believe people elected him as our President...TWICE! He's such an embarrassment.

    Parent

    he seems to have... (none / 0) (#176)
    by desertswine on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:20:27 AM EST
    a large abrasion on his right arm. I thought I noticed it the other day when I was watching the swimming events. How did they explain that away?

    Parent
    They probably won't even try. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Edger on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:30:38 AM EST
    He's one tough cowboy. He probably got it beatin' up terrists.

    Parent
    Idea I had (none / 0) (#21)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:56:24 PM EST
    Here in Detroit there is a Conservative (mainly Christian right) radio station next to WDET (they best public radio station in the country- just so you know), and going through the dials the other day I heard some incredibly disturbing, completely false anti-abortion nonsense from one of these hate mongers.  Some of the things he said that infuriated me, before I go on with my idea some of the things he said were:
    1)People that are pro-choice (he hates this phrase) are trying to have abortions 2-3 weeks before birth- Absurd
    2)Planned Parenthood is a racist organization, as most of their "abortion mills" are in black neighborhoods.- Though I have no idea if this is true stat, his statement ignores the fact that regardless of one's view of abortion, planned parenthood offers all the healthcare options, that this guy probably thinks should be cut (including prenatal care, etc.).  Who cares if the founder a billion years ago was a bit nuts.
    3)True Christians can never support abortion (though I am not a Christian- this one infuriates me)

    What made this guy's arguments SOUND strong is that he challenged the people that disagreed with him (who he was talking about) to debate him.  Of course since they weren't listening or for many other reasons they will never debate this guy, he comes of sounding stronger.   This got me thinking.  It seems that simple organization could counter this nonsense.  This is my organizational idea, tell me what you think (or even tell me if it exists).  

    The idea is set up a website with the dates, times these conservative radio hosts are on the air (both national and local).  You could select a person you are going to listen to and call in to debate.  Selecting the person would allow the organization to see who was not being targeted, as well as re-direct people to particular radio shows to reach critical mass of debaters to flood their lines.   The goal would not be to convince the radio host, but to show their listeners that being pro choice isn't being pro murder (NOTE- I explained this to someone who thought he was against choice, telling him that it was a lie that anyone was giving abortions a few weeks before birth unless the mother's life was in danger, he completely changed his tune and his "side").    If their producer turned down the caller, the caller would go to the website and note this, so that these hate mongers true fear of openly debating people could be calculated and used against them.  
    Of course this organization could be used to promote many progressive issues.
    I know there are people who individually do this now, but this would be a very inexpensive way to combat this right wing nonsense in a coordinated fashion.

    Anyways just an idea

    That is such a crock. When my teenager (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:06:30 PM EST
    niece got pregnant, she hid it for five months with baggy clothes. When my very rich ex-sister-in-law realized it, she took my niece to every big city around trying to get her an abortion and not one doctor would do it.

    She had the baby and blessed a childless couple who to this day call to thank her for their now seven year old little girl.

    Also, the clinic here is near the university and in a business section of the town.

    Parent

    I am assuming (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:37:32 PM EST
    When you said crock you mean the statistic this guy sited about Planned Parenthood locations?  

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:43:12 PM EST
    it stands to reason that underprivileged areas are going to have the most need for a non-profit clinic.  So there's bound to be a correlation between poverty and race.

    But of course, the wingnuts like to claim that it's all some insidious plot to kill off the minority populations.  It's one of their more revolting arguments.

    Parent

    That lie angers me so much (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:48:08 PM EST
    It creates distrust among a group that desparately needs healthcare of any kind, of one of the few groups tht is willing to provide it free or at a minimal cost.

    P.S.
    I volunteered escorting a few women into clinics in CA for a while.  I have never loved being a big black guy= 6'7' 280 (who was in better shape at the time) more.  

    Parent

    Hmm (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:50:24 PM EST
    You know, I'm rethinking some of the issues where we've disagreed in the past.  I think I see it your way all of a sudden.  No particular reason!

    Parent
    That gave me a smile (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:16:17 PM EST
    Very nice thing to do, sam. I'll bet there are many women who think about that often and remember the kind man who saw them safely to their appointment.


    Parent
    Ok, you jut gave me a smile (none / 0) (#107)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:29:22 PM EST
    all 105lbs of me has helped form the human fence so women can be escorted into clinics  {GRIN}

    About the locations, unless things have drastically changed, they were equal opportunity/accessable locations everywhere I've lived. As a self employed person most of the time, I have been known to use their services when I was younger. So much cheaper for women's preventive healthcare when lacking insurance, ime. Many of my friends and I used them in college and through our 20's.

    Parent

    From another clinic defender (none / 0) (#125)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:48:00 PM EST
    but about a foot shorter, so I was better at the scrum thing -- thanks!

    Parent
    I was commenting about them saying that (none / 0) (#81)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:53:45 PM EST
    women get abortions just a few weeks before they're due. I don't know about the locations...there is only one clinic here and it is in a good safe location.

    Your comment below...I think people who are anti-choice for religious reasons won't change their minds. I guess the only way to talk to them is to explain what it was like years ago when young women died from illegal abortions and to try to get them to help support women who would rather have the baby if they were able.

    Parent

    If they were only talking (none / 0) (#145)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:09:56 AM EST
    to people who were totally and irrevocably anti-abortion on religious principles, they wouldn't feel they have to gin up lies to keep them in line.  What they're doing is recruiting people to the anti-abortion cause on a much wider basis of false charges of brutality and immorality.

    Parent
    and, Sam, living where I do, I have argued (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:12:07 PM EST
    with plenty of the kind of people that listen to those shows. You can't change their minds. They wouldn't be listening if they had any sense of fairness. Even my ex-sister-in-law I mentioned above is a die hard right-winger (abortions are bad unless you want your daughter to have one).

    Parent
    Plus (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:26:27 PM EST
    most people who work those clinics
    a) Have to protect the confidentiality of the patients so they are unlikely to divulge information about clients.
    b) Are unlikely to out themselves to scary people who think they are "killing babies".

    Since the whole topic of abortion is laden with shame and scorn, it's unlikely that women who have had abortions would subject themselves to public scrutiny.  Even women who have terminated wanted pregnancies due to severe fetal abnormalities often feel they can't tell people for fear of being judged.

    The ironic thing is the same people who would hang a scarlet letter on the women who have chosen to abort also will heap scorn on women who become unwed mothers.  There are a few souls who do try to aid women who "choose life" but the majority offer little but faint praise.

    I remember the anti-abortion displays and literature my Catholic church put out and the annual sermon.  Not once did they make a specific effort to support women who carried to term.  Just fear and loathing.  I wonder if things are different now.

    Parent

    I doubt it has changed. I feel for those people (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Teresa on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:30:51 PM EST
    working there. I provided transportation to the clinic in Knoxville once and it was awful. There were men following us all the way to the door yelling at us. The workers there must face that each time they go in and out. It was scary.

    Parent
    So what do you do with this group of people? (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 09:43:38 PM EST
    They are voting against us at every election.

    I can understand why onw would be anti- choice. I think they are wrong, but at a religous level- if that is their thing and they live their live that close to the bible (which is almost impossible to do, and there in lies the hypocracy), I can understand that they are against abortion.  However, I think for many there are people who are not against the termination of a fetus, but don't understand that there is a difference between a feuts and a living baby, and I think this group could be reached (or I at least hope they can).

    Parent

    What we don't do is (none / 0) (#102)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:18:43 PM EST
    support anything that brings religion near our government.


    Parent
    Hard core won't be reached (none / 0) (#115)
    by RalphB on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:40:54 PM EST
    because they just won't listen to you.  They don't get news from TV, normal radio, or a paper.  Most of their news comes from "preferred" Christian radio and their church bulletins.  Anything else is Godless to them.

    Parent
    The Reason This Won't Work (none / 0) (#127)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:51:51 PM EST
    is because these radio gasbags argue for awhile, then you are cut off from the audio feed, making it sound like you don't have a response to whatever absurd argument they last made.  Then they say something like, "But thanks for calling anyway..."

    Parent
    I think this is a terrific (none / 0) (#144)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:06:08 AM EST
    idea, Samtaylor2!

    The Web site could have maybe key talking points, too, on some of these issues so people could really have their facts in line when they call.

    You're right that it's hopeless debating with these guys, but many of their listeners never really hear anything but their lies, and just raising a few doubts in a few minds would really pay off, I think.

    Parent

    As days go by (none / 0) (#113)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:38:24 PM EST
    I find myself ... Well to put it like this..,  someone could write for 10 paragraphs about how Obama is a dissappointment but if one small phrase contributes to a negative narrative about Clinton I will forego the opportunity to attack Obama and I will choose to defend Clinton.

    Now if an obama supporter or obama himself were to give that more than a moment's thought.  Someone more concerned with supporting Obama than building false narratives about Clinton might find me an ally in the not too distant future.

    Well as days go by (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by RalphB on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:43:20 PM EST
    I find nothing changing myself.  Guess my opinions may have been a bit harder.

    Parent
    no (2.00 / 0) (#137)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:11:46 PM EST
    nothing has changed, I'm just stating a set of priorities on my part.

    And I'm more than free to remind myself and others that Obama, his campaign, and his entire movement, only prosperred because of the false narratives they sustained about Clinton, not because they spoke out very well on an issue.

    Parent

    I was thinking too (none / 0) (#132)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:55:59 PM EST
    as someome was lying about Obama's voting record earlier today, that each time I think I'm over the anger, one of his minions pisses me off all over again.

    Parent
    Whee open thread - another chance (none / 0) (#122)
    by echinopsia on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:45:51 PM EST
    to derail things to my garden. Which is giving me all sorts of ways to deflect my attention from the coming convention in my city.

    Tonight I was sitting on my flagstone patio (in a chair, natch) when I saw my old cat (he's 17) in a hunting posture. It takes a lot to get this old kitty to pay attention to possible prey - he's old, he's well fed, he's pretty much past his mighty hunter wild kingdom days. Even then, he preferred mice to birds.

    I looked where he was looking and saw a hummingbird near the blossoming agastache (hummingbird mint, no duh). It's the first time I've seen a hummingbird in my garden in nearly 17 years in Denver.

    Now I know fall is not far off because hummingbirds only pass through here in spring and fall on their way to and from the mountains.

    Still, it was very cool to be within 20 feet of a hummingbird in my garden.

    I have some kind of flowering shrub (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by flashman on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 10:59:27 PM EST
    in my yard next to my porch.  I have no idea what it is.  But I've had a tiny humming bird visit year after year.  She's so small, that at first I didn't know if it was a bird or a bug.  Finally I figures out it was a tiny humming bird.  Now, there is a second one, a tiny, tiny baby one, who visits too.

    Parent
    Ummmm (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:14:19 AM EST
    Hummingbirds, like most but not all birds, are full-grown adult size by the time they leave the nest.

    There is, however, a wonderful "hummingbird moth" that looks just like a hummer from a little distance.  Maybe you had one of those?

    Parent

    Definitely A Hummer (none / 0) (#174)
    by flashman on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:02:47 AM EST
    Like a small carbon copy of the other one.  I was hard at first to see what they were becuase they are so small.  I'll try to get pictures, if I can.

    Parent
    One of the great things (none / 0) (#148)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:21:00 AM EST
    about where I live now, in the Vermont countryside, is the hummingbirds.  I was shocked to see one shortly after I moved in, and quickly put out a feeder and instantly had eager customers.

    My small property is surrounded on all sides by farm fields, which are clover three years out of four and feed corn the fourth year.  Turns out the hummers just love that clover, but they love my feeders and flowers more.  I have two regular hummer nests on either side of my property, so a different set of the little critters visiting each feeder.

    Being so tiny and fast and essentially immune to predators, they're incredibly bold and fearless.  They will hover a foot in front of my face, probably trying to figure out whether my lips are a flower worth investigating.  I've seen the young of the year chasing one of my cardinals around, certain that brilliant red must harbor some truly delicious nectar.  Heheheheh.

    Of course, here in the East, we only have the one species, where you in the West have a dozen.  But they're wonderful, impossible little creatures, I think.


    Parent

    Funny hummingbird story (none / 0) (#149)
    by tree on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:22:50 AM EST
    Years ago, when I had a house, I had a beautiful garden in the back yard with all sorts of flowering plants. One afternoon before heading in to work, I stepped out into the garden to admire the beauty. Suddenly a hummingbird quickly flew up to within a foot of my chest and hovered there for a few moments before flying off again. You see, I was wearing a fuchsia colored silk blouse. I figure he must have thought he hit THE motherlode for nectar, but just couldn't figure out quite where to connect up for a drink, so off he went, with a tear in his eye no doubt.

    Parent
    an official statement from jeralyn (none / 0) (#140)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 11:31:02 PM EST
    is in order.  

    Simple question:  does a TL front pager have the authority on TL to ban people from their threads and delete comments that do not break previously defined rules??

    Probably yes (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:22:52 AM EST
    But the way to handle it is to email Jeralyn directly, not post the challenge in comments.

    Parent
    correct (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:25:19 AM EST
    if you want me to see it, you need to email me. If it's about one of BTD's threads, I forward it to him.

    Comments should be about the topic of the post. When they devolve into personal spats between two people, my response is "take it to e-mail". Or as one commenter wrote after a series of 6 or so back and forth sniping comments, "Get a room, guys."

    Parent

    the answer (none / 0) (#156)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:32:28 AM EST
    applies to everyone, I assume.


    Parent
    Big Tent Democrat (none / 0) (#147)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:20:40 AM EST
    gets to make his own rules. His threads are his own.  Because TalkLeft policy prevents personal attacks, he can't respond to commenters who insult him the way he might otherwise and therefore he can ban those commenters.

    BTD asks that commenters who disagree with his treatment of their comments take it up with him by email not in the comments.

    I'm staying out of it except to say I support Big Tent Democrat's authority to conduct his threads however he wants, so long as they don't otherwise violate TL policy against profanity, name-calling, etc.

    So the answer to your question is yes, you can be banned from commenting on BTD's threads without being banned from the site or commenting on my or TChris' posts.

    Also, not every deleted comment on any of our threads is deleted by us. We have had an excellent comment moderator since the last part of the primaries.  And, if I'm perusing a BTD thread and find an comment that I think violates site policy, I delete it.

    Parent

    thanks for replying (none / 0) (#153)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 12:28:28 AM EST
    I don't believe democrats are responsible for the war which is what karl rove thinks.

    I dont think the progress made during the 90s was incremental.

    These are the opinions I expressed in his threads.

    I also now believe that Btd is given a platform here to state his opinions as fact in an environment where those opinions will remain unchallenged.

    Parent

    Jeralyn, as we all know, with power comes extra (none / 0) (#183)
    by jawbone on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:49:33 AM EST
    responsibility. With great trepidation, I suggest that in some cases some with power have perhaps lost perspective and taken as personal insults things which are genuinely arguable and were not meant as personal insults to the person with power.

    A need to walk on eggshells does not encourage the free exchange of ideas.

    'nuff said.

    Parent

    More on Georgia... (none / 0) (#161)
    by OrangeFur on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 01:35:02 AM EST
    The Russian military seems to be firmly encamped in what is indisputably Georgian territory. Human Rights Watch reports that many ethnically Georgian villages have been looted and destroyed. The United States military is sending humanitarian aid to Georgia. Condoleezza Rice has said that "This is not 1968," referring to the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia and the overthrow of the government there.

    Is this a full-blown crisis yet?

    Plus, Russia has the right per the wording of the (none / 0) (#182)
    by jawbone on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:45:18 AM EST
    French-brokered ceasefire to do just what it is doing. Until international monitors/peacekeepers are in place in Georgia, Russia has the right to keep the peace. Apparently they are demilitarizing as much of Georgia as possible, blowing up ammo dumps, destroying weapon caches.

    The Western arms manufacturers and sales people are delighted to see new needs being developed in Georgia!

    See MoonofAlabama.org. Also my comment below about early actions of Georgia and Russia's attempt to get UN resolution prior to going into South Ossetia.

    Parent

    Ohio, Colorado, Michigan, and Virginia (none / 0) (#170)
    by cmugirl on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 06:35:07 AM EST
    These are the four make-or-break states for the election,at least according to Karl Rove.

    Now, I know the man is evil, but he is an evil genius and can play presidential politics pretty well.

    Anyway - it's an interesting perspective, and pretty much what TL'ers have been saying here.

    It was only a matter of time... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 07:48:17 AM EST
    FBI to loosen domestic spy rules

    Attorney General Michael Mukasey confirmed plans yesterday to loosen post-Watergate restrictions on the FBI's national security and criminal investigations, saying the changes were necessary to improve the bureau's ability to detect terrorists.

    [snip]

    Mukasey said the new rules "remove unnecessary barriers" to cooperation between law enforcement agencies and "eliminate the artificial distinctions" in the way agents conduct surveillance in criminal and national security investigations.

    "There was clear-eyed and bipartisan recognition after the attacks that we needed to be able - and allowed - to collect intelligence in the United States," he said in a speech prepared for an anti-terrorism conference in Portland, Ore. "Indeed, there was a loud demand for it."

    [snip]

    "Under the new guidelines, the investigative steps that the FBI may take in a particular investigation will not be driven by irrelevant factors, such as the type of paperwork the agent uses to open the investigation," he said.

    In addition, agents assigned to national security investigations will be given more latitude to conduct surveillance based on a tip. Also, agents will be permitted to search more databases than allowed previously in criminal cases. As it stands now, agents who get a tip about a possible organized crime figure cannot use certain databases that they are allowed to access in national security cases, such as those containing information about state-issued drivers' licenses.

    [snip]

    Mukasey said he planned to consult with Congress about the rules before releasing them. Nonetheless, Mukasey provided enough detail yesterday to alarm civil libertarians.

    Michael German, a former veteran FBI agent who is now policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said if Mukasey moves ahead with the new rules as he describes them, he'll be weakening restrictions originally put in place after the Watergate scandal to rein in the FBI's domestic Counter Intelligence Program, or COINTELPRO. At the time, the FBI spied on American political leaders and organizations deemed to be subversive throughout the late 1950s and into the 1960s.

    "I'm concerned with the way the attorney general frames the problem," German said. "He talks about 'arbitrary or irrelevant differences' between criminal and national security investigations but these were corrections originally designed to prevent the type of overreach the FBI engaged in for years."

    Wonder what else has been under wraps and wonder what Obama's view of this is.


    What damage will BushCo wreak before leaving?? (none / 0) (#180)
    by jawbone on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:40:59 AM EST
    Obama may think this is another good Republican idea. Who knows? Who can predict how he will govern?

    Hubris wrapped in ambition within an enigma surrounded by mystery....

    Parent

    EJ Dionne (none / 0) (#173)
    by TimNCGuy on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 08:51:35 AM EST
    has an article today published on RealClearPolitics here
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/08/will_the_clintonobama_feud_con.html

    In it he makes this statement

    "If bad blood between the Clinton and Obama camps persists, it's highly unlikely that an Obama defeat this fall would lead inexorably to a Clinton nomination the next time. Obama's shrewd announcement Wednesday of former Virginia Gov. Mark Warner as the convention keynote speaker has a bearing on this. It not only gives a central role to a moderate Democrat from a swing state, it also points to a future that transcends the Clinton-Obama feud."

    ------------------------------------------------

    When will the pundits finally realize that the Clinton supporters that are not moving towards supporting Obama are not going to be moved towards supporting Obama with Obama's strategy of continuing "shrewd" actions that are designed to make the Clintons irrelevant in the future?

    So, Mr Dionne may think it was a "shrewd" move to schedule Warner as the Keynote speaker on "women's night" in order to further diminish Clinton's future, but the Clinton supporters that everyone wants to get "united" don't view it that way.

    Something I had not known about the Georgian mess- (none / 0) (#179)
    by jawbone on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:37:26 AM EST
    I had not known that right after Saak. launched the assault on the capital city of South Ossetia, Russia went to the Security Council to request an emergency resolution that the military actions be stopped. The US, France, and Britain resisted based on some wording requiring no further military action.

    When that failed Russia entered South Ossetia. I do not know if they were poised to enter or even in the tunnel at the time, but they did wait, did try to use the UN.

    Per Moon of Alabama's poster, b, and this from the AP (link in post):

    At the request of Russia, the U.N. Security Council held an emergency session in New York but failed to reach consensus early Friday on a Russian-drafted statement.

    The council concluded it was at a stalemate after the U.S., Britain and some other members backed the Georgians in rejecting a phrase in the three-sentence draft statement that would have required both sides "to renounce the use of force," council diplomats said.

    (My bolding)

    Commenter b real (8/8, 10:56:58) has quotes from Inner City Press's blogging of that emergency UN Security Council session. Wow, there are bloggers who cover everything!

    b points out this is the same game plan the US used when Israel was invading Lebanon. And that worked out so well!

    Also, Saak. had announced a ceasefire the Thursday before the opening of the Olympics and then launched the attacks that night. Nefarious much?

    What I find fascinating, in a frightening way, is that the MCM ran with The Narrative of poor invaded blameless Georgia immediately. It was like watching a much abbreviated version of the run up to the Iraq Invasion: Get the maladministration story out there, repeat, repeat, repeat. Ignore as long as possible any facts which do not fit The Narrative. Get the public to hate the Enemy, support the Maladministration's favored one(s).

    Early on, some news was filtering through--I heard from callers to WNYC who read Russian some of the Russian story, which in this case seems to have been the accurate story. Also some talked about bloggers' info from the two countries. But the MCM? They new The Narrative.

    Next up: Will George get US military involved inside Georgia? Will Russian and US solidiers be placed in possibly escalating situations? Dick Cheney must be salivating at all this.
     

    Too funny for words (none / 0) (#184)
    by americanincanada on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 10:49:38 AM EST
    It was one thing to read that he had said...another to hear it...lord...Obama has one powerful personalit...he can end world conflict by just asking nicely.

    LINK

    Serious...is this the best Obama can do for VP hopefuls?

    Joe Klein sees the light? (none / 0) (#185)
    by Fabian on Thu Aug 14, 2008 at 11:31:39 AM EST
    The orangists are going ga-ga for Joe Klein because he attacked McCain.

    Ever since Glenn Greenwald got Joe Klein to admit that he was too lazy to commit actual journalism and preferred to shoot his mouth off without understanding the bill he was bashing Democrats over, I wrote Klein off as worthless at best.  Now he's a netroots hero?  (Let's ask Kos - here's his take on JK - tool of the GOP.)

    I think Joe Klein is a lazy, unprincipled opportunist no matter who he is attacking or schmoozing.  Your mileage may vary.