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Forget Who, When? Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:06:09 AM EST
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[Video added by TL]

So I am tired of the guessing game and the advice (so yeah, I am tired of my posts too), just announce it already! We know he is appearing with his VP choice on Saturday in Springfield, Illinois. So sometime between now and Saturday, Obama will announce his pick. So here is the new game - WHEN will Obama send the famous text message? This afternoon? Tonight? Tomorrow morning? Tomorrow night? SATURDAY?

This is an Open Thread.

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    Forget Who, When? Open Thread | 210 comments (210 topical)
    Early morning Friday (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:07:17 AM EST
    to get the whole day's and night's news coverage

    Isn't Friday the "bad news day"? (none / 0) (#5)
    by katiebird on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:10:54 AM EST
    Or is that only Republicans that drop bad news on Friday?

    Parent
    Only if it's after about 4:30pm (none / 0) (#109)
    by BrianJ on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:55:37 AM EST
    So that the news misses the network news broadcasts.  The FDIC announces the week's bank failures on Friday afternoon for that reason, too.

    Parent
    I suspect the choice (none / 0) (#128)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:04:12 PM EST
    is so soporific that they want to bury it in the day it will get the least attention.  I've observed elsewhere that it is unfortunate that the homonym for Obama-Bayh is Obama-Bye.

    Parent
    Or, he doesn't want to give the GOP (none / 0) (#177)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:36:59 PM EST
    a lot of time to react....and he doesn't care that people are ticked off it is taking so long....That could make sense if the pick will by itself generate a lot of buzz and really shake things up.

    But, it doesn't seem like it will happen.

    Parent

    I say tomorrow.... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:09:09 AM EST
    ...no real reason, except that I think they will do it before the "joint" appearance.

    BTW, did you see McCain's response to the Obama charge that McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns? They brought up Rezko. Ouch.

    I see that tit-for-tat as a wash (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:11:13 AM EST


    Parent
    Both of them are stupid (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:22:28 AM EST
    That John McCain's wife is rich is not going to hurt him.

    What WOULD hurt him is, stop me if you have heard this one, Bush's Third Term!

    Parent

    I'm with Feingold on that. (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:32:06 AM EST
    It just doesn't stick.  Most americans do not see McCain as a Bush third term.

    Parent
    because Obama (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:36:44 AM EST
    has not gone after the first term of Bush. Furthermore the Democratic Congress for the past two years have been problematic since they seem to have the same rubberstamping problme the Congress before did. That said, Obama could draw distinctions if he weren't so busy trying not to offend anyone. Just go after the GOP brand already and be done with it.

    Parent
    No. That's not why. People think of McCain (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:34 AM EST
    as distinctly different than Bush.  They did try it.  It didn't stick.

    Parent
    It WILL stick (none / 0) (#88)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:51 AM EST
    if they do it.

    Parent
    I am empirical proof of this theory (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:50:08 AM EST
    I've become a nose-holding Obama voter SOLELY by watching McCain and his ilk demonstrate how they will continue Bush's presidency (e.g., more saber-rattling, more environmental deregulation, more pro-lifers on the court, more breaks for big business, more shafting of the middle class, etc). The more they show that McCain is a continuation of Bush, the more disaffected people like me, or those who are hesitant about Obama, will hold their noses and vote for Obama if only to stop McCain.

    Obama hasn't sold me on voting for him, McCain has sold me on stopping McCain.

    Parent

    Why? (none / 0) (#195)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:51:26 PM EST


    Parent
    They didn't try hard enough (none / 0) (#97)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:46:57 AM EST
    they are too busy being the me too candidate. Let's see it's been me too to oil drilling and to Georgia.

    Parent
    bush's second term includes (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:50:17 AM EST
    the democratic congress with pelosi and reid as the so called congressional leaders. maybe just maybe that is why this bush's third term doesn't fly.

    Parent
    That's a part of it (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10:13 PM EST
    another is Obama is to busy playing follow the leader. MCain makes a statement calling for oil drilling, Obama echoes him two days later. McCain makes a statement condenming Russia, Obama does the same two days later. Which of these guys LOOKS like the LEADER? I'll give you a hint. It isn't Obama.

    Parent
    Timetables and (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:39:44 PM EST
    more troops to Afghanistan....Obama leads, McCain follows....and Bush too.

    Parent
    i remember when i was getting into (none / 0) (#150)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:15:48 PM EST
    my current professional career as a newby. i played follow the leader, however i knew i didn't know and wasn't ashamed to ask. above pay grade is a term i am afraid we'll hear a lot between now and november.

    Parent
    the arrogance he projects (none / 0) (#155)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:20:09 PM EST
    is IMO is the biggest liklihood of his downfall. I'm watching carefully to see if he can eat humble pie and pick Hillary. If he can't then he isn't ready and I won't aid him. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Country first, ego second. If he can't get the order right then we're better off without him in the WH. The country has had about all the ego driven policy making it can take.

    Parent
    Humility has nothing to do with Hillary (1.50 / 2) (#168)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:27:26 PM EST
    Really, how could he possibly work with a VP that has stated that white working class people don't support him - or that his vision for America is a fairy tale?

    If he wants to pick her, that's fine with me, but if he doesn't, it will have nothing to do with personal pride.  It will be a practical, rational decision.

    Parent

    Your connection to truth is a fairy tale. (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:29:39 PM EST


    Parent
    How silly (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:46:17 PM EST
    How could he pick a running mate like Biden or Bayh? They both voted for the war he has (cough) so fervently opposed.

    Parent
    She was quoting an AP article (none / 0) (#173)
    by waldenpond on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:35:08 PM EST
    stop it.

    Parent
    The vision thing isn't (none / 0) (#182)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:39:45 PM EST
    what Bill was talking about.  You probably know that.

    Parent
    Only 47% and rising. (none / 0) (#73)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:28 AM EST
    "According to a new CBS/NYT poll, 47 percent of voters believe that McCain will continue Bush administration policies -- an increase from 43 percent in May."
    --Think Progress


    Parent
    77% in the NBC poll (none / 0) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:22 AM EST
    Shows how much polls stink, and ALSO how little Obama has focused on this.

    Parent
    Probably (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by DCDemocrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:05:53 PM EST
    it's a difference in the nuance of the wording of the question.

    Parent
    Hm (none / 0) (#74)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:34 AM EST
    Yesterday's NBC News poll found that "77 percent of respondents believe that McCain -- if elected -- would closely follow the policies of President Bush."

    Parent
    Interesting because it didn't stick. (none / 0) (#78)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:39:31 AM EST
    I think it's personality more than policies.  McCain isn't Bushlike.

    Parent
    Feingold is wrong (none / 0) (#84)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:42:35 AM EST


    Parent
    The polls say they do (none / 0) (#136)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes, that would hurt, if people bought it. (none / 0) (#154)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:18:33 PM EST
    I think you are gravely mistaken in calling McCain a weak candidate. He has assiduously cultivated his "maverick" reputation for 15-20 years, and it has sunk in so well that rebranding will be quite difficult. Is it reasonable for an intelligent person to say McCain will bring Bush's 3rd term?
    Yes. Will people buy it? I doubt it.
    Look, don't you think McCain would have mopped the floor with Gore in 2000? I do. How can he be so much weaker today? I don't buy it.

    Parent
    It's as easy as saying (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:22:57 PM EST
    The "maverick" voted with George Bush over 90% of the time and continues to echo Bush regarding Iraq, immigration, and a whole host of other issues the country faces. I don't understand why the Obama campaign insists on playing defense rather than offense.  

    Parent
    Yes, an attack using ridicule would (none / 0) (#167)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    be good.

    Parent
    Obama's focus on McCain's houses (4.66 / 3) (#32)
    by Exeter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:57 AM EST
    is a serious, serious blunder. Not only does it open him up for a tough counter punch (Rezko helped Obama buy his house), but almost all U.S. Presidents have been pretty wealthy and the number of self-financed billionaires that come and go into the U.S. Senate would indicate that most find having alot of wealth a positive more than a negative.

    Parent
    McCain's response not only pounded him... (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:25:53 AM EST
    ...on Rezko, it also mentioned that Obama made 4 million dollars last year, so yeah....I think they need to stop giving McCain openings. BTD is right. Bush third term is what will work. I don't know why they are throwing out these softballs that just give McCain the opportunity to trot out Obama's baggage.

    Parent
    No kidding... (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by americanincanada on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:06 AM EST
    "Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses? Does a guy who worries about the price of arugula and thinks regular people `cling' to guns and religion in the face of economic hardship really want to have a debate about who's in touch with regular Americans?"

    Parent
    How Do You Not Know How Many Houses (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:59:41 AM EST
    you own, though?

    I don't care that McCain (or his wife) are rich, but that was a weird answer that people who hear it are going to find...well, weird.

    And I do think the 'rich' point becomes an issue if 'elitism' is going to be flung around. McCain gets by on an Everyman kind of image that is not consistent with his lifestyle.

    Parent

    You might consider (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:16:00 PM EST
    that McCain doesn't give a d*mn how many houses his wife wants to own? It's her money.

    There's miles of film footage of him doing his job in the Senate. They can counter every charge with showing him (and Cindy in her charity work) out in the world working for this country.

    He's a tough opponent.

    Parent

    holy crapoli... was that actually (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Exeter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:01:23 PM EST
    from McCain?!? That is a pretty sweet smackdown!

    Parent
    so just what is the obama (none / 0) (#106)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:51:46 AM EST
    campaign's relationship with acorn? this could prove to be a major problem.

    Parent
    You have to wonder (3.50 / 2) (#148)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:15:01 PM EST
    About "progressives" that want to attack ACORN.  Have you been trying to register minorities and low income Americans for years?  I have worked with ACORN and seen what brave Americans these people are who go into neighborhoods that scare the *$%# out of me because they believe in Americans voting.  99% of the stories of false registration, always turn out to be false. Maybe you picked the wrong target?

    Parent
    I'll second that "please stop" (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by angie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:25:44 PM EST
    I'm from NOLA -- I've seen the way ACORN operates -- it may not be the same in every city where it is located, but the NOLA one is, well . . .

    Parent
    please stop! there's a problem sam. (none / 0) (#153)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:17:30 PM EST
    heck i was chairman of the board for a nonprofit and i have seen some things that shocked even me.

    Parent
    Because their mission (none / 0) (#202)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:56:21 PM EST
    is (may I use the word) noble, that is the problem.  These organizations fall harder - that's the way the world works.  Unfair?  Yeah -

    Having said that, I don't have enough information to form opinion - I'm only beginning to focus.

    Parent

    A guilty pleasure for me is (none / 0) (#134)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:09:22 PM EST
    NO QUARTER.  They cover it there - Don't taze me bro.

    A Republican blog -  Just a Minute - is covering the Annenberg (?) papers pretty thoroughly.  

    Parent

    I stop by there from time to time too (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12:30 PM EST
    They get a bit out there sometimes with the Birth certificate thing and all but I find the synchophants of Obama equally as incredible. I figure if I read them both I'll even it out.

    Parent
    shhhh! me too! (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12:31 PM EST
    i also like apple pie alamode.

    Parent
    Yes, my first thought (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by miriam on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30:31 AM EST
    when I heard the latest Obama blunder was: Well, at least McCain didn't ask a crook to fund his houses.

    Parent
    Heck, it reminds me (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:44 AM EST
    that we once had a president and spouse who didn't even have a home of their own, busy as they had been in a lifetime of public service and living in  government housing, as it were -- from a gubernatorial house to the White House.

    That would be, of course, Bill and Hillary Clinton.

    Quite a different story from Mr. Chicago Mansion or Mr. Four or More Mansions.

    Parent

    Don't worry Cream.... (2.00 / 3) (#127)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:04:12 PM EST
    they have their mansion now in Chappaqua.

    Just had to cash in all that political capital first.

    Parent

    Sure, and by then (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:50:19 PM EST
    it meant no political fallout, as it does with Obama -- buying his mansion's yard with the help of a criminal and whining about not enough leftover for ballet lessons.  Yet there was enough leftover for two vacations in little more than three months.  A lot of American families these days would like to have such problems.

    And a lot of American families had to work a long time for their homes, like mine -- and we still had them before the Clintons got theirs.  So your usual cynicism just doesn't work with this one, dog.

    Parent

    Purchased Straight Up (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by creeper on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:08:36 PM EST
    without help from a sleazy developer.

    They were so in debt ($5 million) from legal expenses incurred by the impeachment that they had to ask Terry McAuliffe to guarantee the 1.3 million dollar loan with Bankers Trust.

    The Obama mansion:  
    "...a house with six bedrooms, four fireplaces, a four-car garage and 5 1/2 baths, including a double steam shower and a marble powder room. It had a wine cellar, a music room, a library, a solarium, beveled glass doors and a granite-floored kitchen.

    Link:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/01/AR2008070103008.html?hpid=topnews

    The Clinton Mansion:  
    "The white colonial, built between 1875 and 1880, has 5,300 square feet and is situated on 1.1 acres of land with beautiful gardens and a swimming pool. It has 11 rooms, including an exercise room on the top floor."

    Link:  http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/09/01/senate.2000/clintons.house/

    Oh, and did I mention the cut-rate loan...three tenths of a percent below the going rate...the Obamas got to buy theirs?

    Parent

    The only problem with that is (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:31:10 PM EST
    Obama is not connected to any of Rezko's illegal activities.  Their connection is mostly one of proximity.  You can't be a Democratic leader in Illinois without having rubbed shoulders with Rezko.

    That dog won't hunt.

    Parent

    Since when has a Presidential (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:34:04 PM EST
    candidate bought his own house with the help of someone who is a mobbed-up slumlord? You cannot make the bad appearance of his house deal go away.
    And that's only the tip of the iceberg of the "shoulder-rubbing".  

    Parent
    Fox talking points - BFD (none / 0) (#209)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:01:38 PM EST
    They engaged in a purely legal business transaction.

    Parent
    Ha. And again, when Rezko was so broke (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:51:44 PM EST
    that he was welshing on his contracts, how could his wife come up with the money to buy the Obama's yard for them?

    Oh, you are so innocent in the ways of Chicago.

    Parent

    You don't think McCain can make hay of it? (none / 0) (#201)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:55:51 PM EST
    The only way it won't "hunt" is if the media decides it won't hunt. Would you have thought they could have called Kerry's military record into question before they swiftboated him?

    Parent
    The race is tied. Also tired. (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:11:46 AM EST
    Question for either candidate:
    If you are elected President, will you bring Lost back for another season?
    Forget Lost. (none / 0) (#59)
    by mikeyleigh on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:31:44 AM EST
    George W. should have made HBO bring back Deadwood for a fourth season.

    Parent
    I nominate 'Lost' only ... (none / 0) (#83)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:42:23 AM EST
    ... because it's as played out and pointless as either candidate's agenda.

    Parent
    I'll vote for whichever... (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:03:45 PM EST
    ...candidate agrees to put FireFly back on the air!

    Parent
    I'm waiting for Space 1999 to return. (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:38:39 PM EST
    I guess they'll have to change the year in the title though.

    Parent
    big fat LOL! (none / 0) (#145)
    by Valhalla on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:13:24 PM EST
    I'm with you -- I swear, I'll even vote for Obama!

    Parent
    Best Sci-Fi movie and series in years (none / 0) (#152)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:16:23 PM EST
    Though have heard Battle star Galactica is good.  I just haven't seen it.

    Parent
    BSG (none / 0) (#207)
    by jedimom on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    BSG frakkin rocks!! That is one that DEFINITELY needs to stay on air

    at this point I am more interested in who the last Ceylon is than who the VEEP is....

    Parent

    Whoever it is (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:13:32 AM EST
    it's going to be BOOORING.  Why else would they announce it on a Friday.

    Obama is hoping everyone forgets he even HAS a VP.

    No use speculating as it is going to be a (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:17:01 AM EST
    big letdown after the "supposed" big build up.  Seems to me that a many, many people are tired of obama and his camp's games.  And, at the rate he is bleeding support, will the VP choice really make a difference?

    only if it is (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:18:54 AM EST
    she who shall not be named.

    Parent
    I think it might make a bit (none / 0) (#40)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:24:17 AM EST
    of a difference if he actually put some decent experience on the ticket. He could get some fence sitters to turn into hold their nose voters?

    Parent
    Capt....I am not sure I even want her on the (none / 0) (#132)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:06:42 PM EST
    ticket now....too little, too late in my opinion.
    Now if she is at the top of the ticket...then I say, GO HILLARY.

    nycstray: People are just that enamored with obama and it would have to be a HUGE draw to get those not inclined to vote obama, to vote for him, imo.

    Parent

    I'm sure we'll (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by frankly0 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:18:19 AM EST
    all remember for the rest of our lives exactly where we were and what we were doing when we finally heard about Obama's VP choice.

    (OK, that would be snark.)

    If I were a betting man... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Romberry on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:00 AM EST
    ...I'd say that the Obama announcement gets made late this afternoon in time to dominate the evening news cycle and make the front pages of the morning editions.

    Yeah, the internet is a big source of news for a great many these days, but there is still something to be said for being the lead on the network news and on the front pages of newspapers the following day. A Friday announcement just doesn't cut it.

    Earlier in the afternoon (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:09 AM EST
    is better than late for that.

    Parent
    The "announcement" comes early... (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:27:38 AM EST
    in other words, announce where and when the VP will be unveiled, and leak the identity, but do the actual 'unveiling' at 6:40 PM eastern time -- all the network news shows will announce the VP pick at the top of the show, and then 'go live' for the announcement.

    Parent
    doesnt really work (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    with the text committment.
    although I would laugh if he screwed them too.

    Parent
    Could work (none / 0) (#81)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:40:57 AM EST
    So when does the leak come?

    Parent
    gee, I don't know, BTD... (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:47:39 AM EST
    maybe the same people in Team Obama who "leaked" that Hillary wasn't being vetted, or the same people on Team Obama who said that the choice was down to Biden, Bayh, Kaine, or the same people on Team Obama who 'privately' suspected that McCain cheated in the Warren forum, or the same people on Team Obama......

    Team Obama is very good at leaking stuff.  "who" isn't an issue.

    Parent

    oops... (none / 0) (#104)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:51:30 AM EST
    For some reason, I thought you asked "who" not "when".

    The leak actually comes before the text message -- but it will be an "embargoed" leak that can't be used until the text message is released.  That's how you play the media...

    Parent

    Clue (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by jedimom on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:12 AM EST
    it is Professor Plum in the library!

    I feel like we are on a giant scavenger hunt of some sort at this point.

    Maybe the announcement is Friday to give those with CDS time to get over their angst with his decision?

    WHERE'S WALDO??? (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Here!! (5.00 / 0) (#183)
    by waldenpond on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:39:48 PM EST
    Oops, never mind.

    Parent
    if it's Hillary (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by Little Fish on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:15 AM EST
    he'll announce it tomorrow right after my plane takes off so I won't be around for the implosion of the media/blogs. :(

    But otherwise, I'm so over this its ridiculous. Just name the VP and let me get on with my ennui.

    Unless its Hilary it will be a big dissappointment (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Saul on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:28:46 AM EST
    and a bad news day.  So why would you want 3 days of coverage that its not Hilary.  The results will be a full negative weekend of news that its not Hilary.  Plus I'm sure TL would be blogging in two ways.  If he picks Hilary, the post will be positive and he does not then the post will be of why he should of picked her.  Especially if he picks Biden.

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:29:48 AM EST
    I have pre-blogged all iterations.


    Parent
    Is that like "pre-owned" (none / 0) (#72)
    by MKS on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:18 AM EST


    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#79)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:39:36 AM EST


    Parent
    this is a very good point (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:35:03 AM EST
    if not today.  probably not Hillary.

    Parent
    For some reason, the Obama campaign (5.00 / 7) (#55)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30:26 AM EST
    seems to think we - and the media - are on the brink of the best orgasm ever after all this VP foreplay, when what we really are on the brink of is a combination of irritation at being manipulated for so long and bored because he's added no new "moves" to the routine...

    You have to know that he is going to want live coverage pre-empting everything, including Olympics coverage, and the usual Friday-afternoon cliff-hangers on the soaps.  

    I'm going with 10:00 am tomorrow - it still makes the morning news shows, it sticks around long enough to carry into the noon news, hits the west coast at 7:00 am.

    Plenty of time for everyone to witness the giant "thud."

    well it seems to be a continuation (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:54:53 AM EST
    in a series of really bad choices by the obama campaign. i think they'd be shocked if and when they realize they are boring us to death.

    Parent
    Another soundbite to be used by McCain (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by cmugirl on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:34:58 AM EST
    In discussing the whole issue of the U of C library not giving up the records that may show that Obama and Ayers are close, Mayor Daley had this to say to a Chicago Tribune reporter:

    " Bill Ayers--I've said this--his father was a great friend of my father," the mayor said. "I'll be very frank. Vietnam divided families, divided people. It was a terrible time of our country. People didn't know one another. Since then, I'll be very frank, [Ayers] has been in the forefront of a lot of education issues and helping us in public schools and things like that."

    The mayor expressed his frustrations with outside agitators like Kurtz.

    "People keep trying to align himself with Barack Obama," Daley said. "It's really unfortunate. They're friends. So what? People do make mistakes in the past. You move on. This is a new century, a new time. He reflects back and he's been making a strong contribution to our community."

    Link

    Um, didn't Obama say they WEREN'T friends?  And Daley is now saying Ayers reflects back and is making a strong contribution to the community?  Isn't Ayers the guy who said he wished he'd done more?

    I think Daley's continued use of (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:49:12 AM EST
    "I'll be very frank" or variations thereof is the "tell" that he is being anything but frank.

    Parent
    wth, has daley lost his mind? (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:56:15 AM EST
    is he so tied to this machine that he has to provide cover for ayers? it is time to clean house.

    Parent
    "outside agitators like Kurtz." (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by angie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:56:45 AM EST
    You tell 'em Daley -- how dare that Kurtz try to look at records that are supposedly public! /s

    Parent
    Who cares? (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by lizpolaris on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:42:19 AM EST
    Rather than fueling all this idle, pointless, speculation on running mate, wouldn't it have been a better use of air time for Obama to have been defining himself and his positions?  No, just getting people to talk about you is all you need - celebrity is key - the kind where any mention of you is goodness.  Campaigning Obama-style.  Light and fluffy.

    This is a way (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:51 AM EST
    of avoiding defining positions.

    Parent
    liz...doesn't have to, his followers always (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:21:11 PM EST
    refer anyone who asks about obama's positions on issues, to the website; it's all there! :)

    IMO...light and fluffy = empty

    Parent

    shaggy dog joke by now (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by DandyTIger on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:43:27 AM EST
    This VP pick thing has become a shaggy dog joke (where part of the joke is that you're dragging the story out forever). No matter who it is at this point, it will look like Obama had trouble making a decision. Which sadly plays right into that democratic stereotype. So either the campaign is inept about timing and marketing (if they knew for a long time) or they're inept because they couldn't make a decision.

    Bleh. Let's play another game.

    Since it's in Springfield.. (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:15:09 PM EST
    The VP pick will obviously be Mayor Quimby.
    Honestly (5.00 / 2) (#211)
    by shoephone on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:05:39 PM EST
    At this point, any Simpson's character would be a more interesting choice than what we're going to get.

    I'd pick Lisa. Smart, articulate, female, always a friend to the underdogs, she plays the saxophone too... what's not to like?

    Parent

    Good evening Mr and Mrs America and all the ships (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by Ellie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:36:14 PM EST
    ... at sea!

    Never in my long years as a dead person has this reporter seen a nation so united in ignoring me! [/Walter Winchell]

    This really is------------- (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:44:38 PM EST
    INDECISION 2008

    Okay... (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by kredwyn on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:46:52 PM EST
    I like Project Runway...and I enjoy oooohing at the bags over at TJ Maxx. But a fashionista clothing line as part of campaign wear?

    Lord (none / 0) (#196)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:51:42 PM EST
    when are they going to go the substance route. I am getting tired of waiting.

    Parent
    Tonight sometime after 6 ET (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:07:21 AM EST
    How do I know? I'll be out, that's how.

    Tomorrow morning (none / 0) (#4)
    by Steve M on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:09:57 AM EST
    at the very latest.

    I just saw a new Republican (none / 0) (#9)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:14:41 AM EST
    face on tv on behalf of John McCain.  Tucker Bounds.  I like him. (Scary) Is it me?  He's smart.

    tonight about 6pm is what i am hearing (none / 0) (#10)
    by MrPope on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:14:54 AM EST


    this makes sense to me (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:16:10 AM EST
    I thought sometime this afternoon.

    Parent
    Doesn't make sense to me (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:24 AM EST
    You want visuals for the news at 6 at the least.

    Parent
    Who needs visuals (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:39 AM EST
    He will announce via text, right?

    Parent
    Um (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:23:37 AM EST
    So the visual is an I-Phone with the text? Yep, that connects with working class voters.

    Actually, I hate the text message thing and assume there is so unknown "ground game" reason for it.

    Parent

    it was to collect phone numbers right? (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:25:50 AM EST
    so what, they will know 30 seconds before everyone else and get phone calles for money every day for the next 70 whatever days.


    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:27:09 AM EST


    Parent
    Visions of that (none / 0) (#49)
    by andgarden on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:28:20 AM EST
    kept me from signing up.

    Anyway, I do think it's more about getting people to the polls. But I doubt it will be so effective.

    Parent

    If his campaign jams cell phone service (none / 0) (#123)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:02:29 PM EST
    sending that many text messages out at once, they'll even lose that college group they thought they had in the bag.

    Parent
    election day (none / 0) (#213)
    by jedimom on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:09:09 PM EST
    I thought maybe Obama wanted to have their cell numbers handy to call and remind them to go vote on Election Day

    Parent
    Oops (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:27:55 AM EST
    forgot my snark tag.  Whenever I reply, always assume it's snark ;-).

    I don't like it either, have said so here in the past.  I know the Obama world finds it hard to believe, but there are legions of working class voters who can't AFFORD a cell phone.

    The idea also doesn't work with the over-60's voters, many of whom don't have cell phones either -- but consistently vote.

    It's an atrocious idea, but it's a sure way to shore up his 'elitist' creds.

    Parent

    I got that (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30:48 AM EST
    I am not getting the timing on this at all.

    Parent
    Because they're nominating (none / 0) (#77)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    someone unexciting.

    And they fear Hillary really will challenge if it isn't her, so they don't want to give her a chance to organize a challenge.

    Just speculating.

    Parent

    Hillary is not going to challenge (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:56:54 AM EST
    anything. They know she's a loyal Democrat and smart politician.

    She's moved on. Her Plan B has been in place for months, and she has enough on her mind right now to probably not even notice what Obama's campaign is doing.

    Parent

    sounds right, unfortunately! (none / 0) (#114)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:57:23 AM EST


    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:22:40 AM EST
    I would say earlier.  but this afternoon.

    Parent
    Actually... if its Hillary it would be on Sat (none / 0) (#12)
    by Exeter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:16:41 AM EST
    If it were someone they WANT to promote to a broad audience, it would be on Tues, Wed, or Thurs and they would try and get a whole news cycle out of it. For example, Edward was named Kerry's pick on a Tuesday. Gore was named on Thursday.

    If its someone they want to promote to a narrow audience (such as Clinton supporters) it will be on a Friday or Saturday.

    So you're saying (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:19:22 AM EST
    we bitter cane-toting, knitting, women stay home on Friday/Saturday?

    Have you forgotten we have motor homes?  

    Parent

    Heh, heh.... no (none / 0) (#118)
    by Exeter on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:59:15 AM EST
    Friday and Saturday just aren't good news days -- nobody home to watch the news.

    Parent
    Saturday Makes Sense If Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:24:03 AM EST
    Bigger BOOM! when she walks out on stage as surprise.

    Parent
    Wednesdays child is full of woe ... (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:45:46 AM EST
    ...
    Thursdays child has far to go,
    Fridays child is loving and giving,
    Saturdays child works hard for his living ...

    Parent
    this seems fortuitously timed (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:17:55 AM EST

    WHITE HOUSE, IRAQ AGREE TO SET WITHDRAWAL TIMETABLE
    That helps OBAMA (1.00 / 0) (#19)
    by MrPope on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:19:17 AM EST
    W  taking a parting shot at McCain

    Parent
    wrong (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:22:03 AM EST
    it helps McCain.  big time.

    Parent
    That depends (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:29:19 AM EST
    on if Obama can quit with the post unity schtick long enough to be an attack dog. I certainly would be reminding folks we wouldn't have been there to begin with if it hadn't been for a President who cherry picked intel and a pom pom weilding majority of GOP Congress members. I'd remind the American people of all the reports that say we are less safe. "National security party ideed."  Then again this requires Obama to fight the GOP brand instead of hold hands and sing preschool like songs about how we are all the same so I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:30:12 AM EST
    Only if McCain wants to start adopting the original Obama strategy about withdrawal, repudiating his own much touted 'leave a force in for years in peace' position.

    Which would be fine for Obama--he could simply point out this flip flop.

    Bush is implementing Obama's plan, not McCain's.

    Parent

    Oh Lawd...He's not implementing (5.00 / 6) (#63)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:34:20 AM EST
    Obama's plan.  Taking the war off the table helps McCain.

    Parent
    exactly right... (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:11:04 PM EST
    ...the country has far more confidence in McCain's management of a withdrawal.  

    Of course, I don't believe that the withdrawal plan is real -- al-Maliki needs to say that there is a withdrawal plan as much, if not more, than the GOP does right now, because of the upcoming Iraqi elections.  

    But then again, I don't trust that Obama's withdrawal plan means he'll actually withdraw either.

    Parent

    'The Country Has Far More Confidence (none / 0) (#179)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:37:31 PM EST
    in McCain's management of withdrawal.'

    Where do you get this idea? Has there been a poll that specifically asked this question?

    Parent

    Until It Jumps Back On the Table (none / 0) (#92)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:45:39 AM EST
    Violence flaring and casualties rising are not the only ways the war stays front and center in this campaign.

    Oil and the economy and poor judgment in getting in there in the first place all will play a part in determining whose ideas win.

    Parent

    The candidate has to do the work (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:51:40 AM EST
    though and Obama really hasn't from where I am sitting. Instead of saying that oil companies need to drill on the leases they already have that they haven't drilled on he went with "me too". Instead of chiding us for picking sides between Russia and Georgia he chose "me too". If Obama continually goes "me too" then there is not going to be seen a need to vote for him. Politics are about contrast, not some preschool nonsense about how we are all the same.

    Parent
    I think it helps McCain (none / 0) (#147)
    by CST on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:14:14 PM EST
    By taking this issue off the table.  It COULD help Obama if he would spend some effort hammering home the idea that the Repubs are coming around to "his" way of thinking.  I just doubt that he'll do so effectively.

    Parent
    Can't see how. (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Romberry on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:56:50 AM EST
    A timeline that's agreed upon sort of take the issue off of the table and McCain's position will be that the surge and the "resulting" stability/downturn in violence is what made the timetable possible.

    The line will be that "Had Barack Obama been in charge, the surge would not have happened and we would not have the success in Iraq that we have today. Obama would have walked away and the sacrifices made by our troops would have been in vain. Thank God that America had the courage to hang tough. Thank God for the courage of our troops whose actions and sacrifices have freed Iraq from a cruel dictator and made a better future possible." Or something like that...

    Parent

    sorry, but that sounds a bit (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:58:36 AM EST
    desperate to me. you don't actually think bush is taking shots at mccain for obama's benefit do you?

    Parent
    I don't understand (none / 0) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:18:25 AM EST
    it feels like such a manipulation and grandstanding.  What in the name of Zeus makes them think its a good thing?

    It's just the personality of the campaign (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:35:53 AM EST
    Must be what Axelrod uses as his signature style. They think it's been working, and nothing has happened that didn't already have a distraction.

    It's going to be after the VP announcement and convention that the Republican machine is going to start their real character attacks. So, who can help him if those get really bad? Who wants to weather that storm as his running mate?

    I don't care who it is as long as it isn't Hillary. No one I'm aware of who said they still won't vote for an Obama presidency even with Hillary on it has changed that position, and if he puts her on now after all this I would think even more HRC supporters will be walk aways.

    Parent

    hate to sound like a broken record (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:00 AM EST
    but it only seem to me to make sense if its Hillary.

    Parent
    totally agree. nt (none / 0) (#26)
    by jpete on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:26 AM EST


    Parent
    I have become convinced (none / 0) (#95)
    by angie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:46:10 AM EST
    that the reason for all this brouhaha over the VP pick is that Obama really, really does not want Hillary and some members of his campaign are trying to talk him into picking her. Heck, even Chris "tingle up my leg" Matthews thinks he should pick Hillary -- some of the people in the Obama camp have to be smart enough to see it too, don't they? Either way, this makes me even more wary about Obama -- can he really not make the right decision here and/or does he really have to be talked into making the right decision? I'd be more comfortable if he could have made that right decision immediately and on his own.
    I can tell you this, although I'm already voting NotMcCain, I will also be voting NotObama if he picks Biden or Kaine. If he picks Hillary, I'll vote for him and pray for the best. If he picks Bayh, since I don't know enough about him, I'll still be on the fence.

    Parent
    So, three sentences starting with "so" (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:19:10 AM EST
    Maybe I should stop writing about this.

    thats why I think it will be today (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:12 AM EST
    1.) people are sick of it
    2.) there is nothing left to say
    (very funny btw)

    Parent
    You would think.... (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:33:25 AM EST
    .... that Obama would announce today, so as to get the benefit of the cable news shows tonight. I would think a lot less people watch those on Fridays, especially in the summer.

    Parent
    late night jokes for letterman (5.00 / 0) (#120)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:59:49 AM EST
    seems to be the only plus with this gig.

    Parent
    I think we just need to get over it... :) (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:11:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Today late afternoon (none / 0) (#24)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:20:15 AM EST
    Either Hillary or someone from total left field...  Bloomberg, T. Boone, Oprah?

    Cannondaddy....I have been saying that (none / 0) (#146)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:13:35 PM EST
    all along...going to be someone picked out of the blue that wasn't expected.

    Parent
    we ae sucked in (none / 0) (#27)
    by MrPope on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:21:04 AM EST
    every HILL supporter on earth is on the edge of they seats to see if he picks her...

    Obama supporters too

    repugs too

    we are sucked in   just accept it.

    That was snark, right? (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:22:35 AM EST


    Parent
    It HAS to be snark (5.00 / 0) (#94)
    by JavaCityPal on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:45:51 AM EST
    'cause the HILL supporters fall into 2 distinctively different camps. Those who would tepidly vote the ticket only if Hillary was on it, and those who still won't vote for Obama and would resent him putting her in second place. From all I read and hear, the second group greatly outnumbers the first.

    Maybe he's waiting so long because he's nervous that he isn't secure enough in the nomination. I know if I didn't have a signed offer letter for a job I was hoping for, I wouldn't even be comfortable buying a new outfit.

    Parent

    Sure (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:24:36 AM EST
    but at this point, I am sick of being sucked in.

    Parent
    yes (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:26:54 AM EST
    being sucked in is starting to suck

    Parent
    Obama's new attack ad.... (none / 0) (#39)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:24:04 AM EST
    via corrente comes word of this new ad from Obama (he approves the message) attacking McCain...

    As someone averred in the comments there, this is Obama practically begging for his junk to be introduced to the McCain campaign's boot.

    Which do you think will be more effective -- an Obama ad that indirectly ties McCain to Abramoff through Ralph Reed, with McCain only "benefit" being that Reed is now fundraising for Obama?

    Or a McCain ad that directly ties Obama to Rezko and cites the obvious benefits that Rezko himself (and his wife) have provided Obama?

    And while I haven't seen it yet, McCain has apparently released an ad in response focussed on Ayres.  That's almost equally dumb, given that Rezko is avaialble.  (Nobody wins the "who has more unsavory associates game....)

    Neither (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:25:36 AM EST
    Ayers could hurt though.

    Parent
    Bernadine could hurt more... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:36:14 AM EST
    Surprised no one has picked up on that yet.

    Parent
    Yep. She's the convicted bomber (none / 0) (#91)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:45:06 AM EST
    and it could hurt in her home state of Wisconsin.  But of course, I'm told that Obama is so far ahead here that nothing could hurt him.  We'll see.

    There is that problem that he's a Bears fan, and that the election comes during football season.:-)

    Parent

    yup and daley is now becoming (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:01:08 PM EST
    a problem for obama.

    Parent
    you don't think Rezko hurts Obama? (none / 0) (#67)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:36:12 AM EST
    ...the Obama ad tries to say that McCain is playing "the same old [Washington] games".  Rezko is not only an opportunity to tie Obama directly to corruption... but to Chicago politics.  (and the visuals that are available for Chicago politics are perfect for a 'dog whistle' subtext.)

    By the way, do you think it was deliberate that the Obama ad used the word "old" in this ad ("the same old games.")  I don't...

    Parent

    I think it would hurt Obama if there were anything (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:20:33 PM EST
    To it.  There is nothing to either the Resko thing or the Ayer thing.  The Washington Post, NY Times, Wall Street Journal all agree- nothing to any of it.  Of course if your source is No Quarter for news, I have bridge I would like to sell you.

    Parent
    Um, there is an agreement that (none / 0) (#162)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:23:06 PM EST
    Obama did nothing illegal, but this hardly improves the odor.

    Parent
    Well said. (none / 0) (#185)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:42:49 PM EST

    There is nothing to either the Resko thing or the Ayer thing.

    There's no "there" there.  

    Parent

    You can cling to that, Sam (none / 0) (#208)
    by Cream City on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:59:42 PM EST
    but don't be bitter when it doesn't work anymore.

    The pullback on the archival records on Ayers reeks to high heaven.  And the stink of Rezko permeates, too.  There is a reason that we're not getting the traditional announcements from the candidate's front porch. . . .

    Parent

    No. I think the ad was about age. (none / 0) (#70)
    by masslib on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:37:19 AM EST


    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#80)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:40:13 AM EST
    I don't.

    Parent
    Ayers (none / 0) (#176)
    by Forlorn Hope on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:36:49 PM EST
    Ayers did it for me. I will probably stay home on election day which is a shame because if Hillary has been the candidate, I really think we had a chance of defeating McConnell this year.

    Parent
    Are You in Kentucky? (none / 0) (#184)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:41:17 PM EST
    Is that why the reference to McConnell?

    Parent
    But why stay home? Vote another (none / 0) (#190)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:47:51 PM EST
    Democrat into the Senate. That way there will be  a strong opposition party no matter which candidate becomes President!

    Parent
    A less effective ad than (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by brodie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:44:02 AM EST
    it could have been.  Gets a little too much into the weeds of a murky, complicated scandal from a few yrs back that only hardcore political junkies will remember.  

    The final image with McCain standing with Bush is better, but even there you don't want to put McCain's image together with the White House..  TeamO is better off using the photo of that awkward McCain embrace -- burying his head stupidly into Junior's shoulder -- from the campaign stump.  It just looks ridiculous, and you want to not only tie McCain with Bush but also make him an object of ridicule.

    As for Team O allegedly opening the door to attacks on himself, gee the Repubs were not going to attack unless Obama did?  Hehe.  Last I checked, the McCain camp went negative last month with the Silly Celeb ad -- and nothing for them will be off limits, regardless of what O does in his ads.

    Parent

    The Abrahamoff attack is extremely (none / 0) (#158)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:21:34 PM EST
    stupid. People hardly know Reed---how is this going to stick? I could mention the hypocrisy of bloggers who cried murder over similar attempts to tar Democrats with Abramoff money, but that would be overkill. It's just a weak ad.

    Parent
    Not true (none / 0) (#193)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:50:18 PM EST
    There is a vast well of contemporary media impressions making Abramoff a symbol of Bush/Republican corruption.  

    Far fewer people have a clue who Rezko is, and most voters were not even born before Bill Ayers' 15 minutes.

    Parent

    Ding ding ding. Did you read? (none / 0) (#199)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:53:20 PM EST
    People don't know who Ralph Reed is.
    They will scratch their head at an attempt to tie McCain to Abrahamoff through a third party they don't even know.
    Oh, and I doubt Abrahamoff has even 25% name recognition among voters. In fact, I'll make a small wager than more voters know who Ayers is---FOX has been talking about Ayers and Obama for months now.

    Parent
    If Fox viewers are your standard (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:57:04 PM EST
    for what potential voters are concerned about....I rest my case.

    Parent
    Hey, I try to be realistic about the voters. (none / 0) (#206)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:59:34 PM EST
    Ayers is already  a big deal. Your saying otherwise
    doesn't make the problem go away.  

    Parent
    Normanly I would guess (none / 0) (#61)
    by Radix on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:32:28 AM EST
    today sometime this afternoon. Fridays would normally give less news coverage, in this case however, I think a Friday announcement wouldn't be buried. Even so, I'm guessing today after lunch sometime, Friday wouldn't surprise me though.

    I am afaid to go to lunch (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:42:37 AM EST


    Obama nominates JELL-O!!! (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:03:01 PM EST
    "It sits as lightly on a heavy meal as it does on
     your conscience." (1963)

    Parent
    Isn't Hillary from (none / 0) (#96)
    by talesoftwokitties on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:46:29 AM EST
    Illinois?
    Hmmmmmmm.
    Saturday is my guess.

    After today's ad wars, it'll have to be ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:52:30 AM EST
    ... somebody with only one house.

    Nah, an extra residence is (none / 0) (#115)
    by brodie on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:58:00 AM EST
    common for pols these days.  Nothing to see there.

    But 7 of them, so many the candidate himself doesn't know the exact number ... that's a campaign issue.

    Hehe ...

    Parent

    Coupled with... (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10:39 PM EST
    ...McCain's statements that $5 million makes you rich, but there are billionaires who are poor.  

    Of course, John S. McCain doesn't speak for the John McCain campaign.  

    Parent

    What's Interesting to Me About His House Answer (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by daring grace on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:24:50 PM EST
    Is what it says about him:

    Hard for me to believe he really doesn't know how many residences they own. I was thinking maybe he just saw a situation where answering forthrightly was strategically stupid--i.e. He didn't have a savvy spinny answer at hand, so he acted as if he wasn't sure.

    But that seems dumb too. Isn't his campaign aware how this could be an image problem for the down to earth POW maverick?

    Either way this flub of an answer surprised me.

    Parent

    not going to work.... (none / 0) (#189)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:47:07 PM EST
    here's the thing.

    McCain doesn't know how many houses he owns because he doesn't live in them -- and most of them aren't owned by him, but rather by a trust fund for which his wife is the beneficiary.

    I think that trying to make this whole thing an issue is going to backfire -- not merely because its stupid, but because its the kind of 'personal attack' that Obama claims to be above.  

    Like it or not, McCain projects "common man" qualities, and Obama's "above partisan politics" stance is easily redefined as "arrogant" and "out of touch".   Obama is far more vulnerable than McCain on this issue (let alone doesn't want to talk about houses thanks to the Rezko connection), and this kind of attack reeks of desperation.  

    Parent

    McCain could even give a feminist spin (5.00 / 3) (#204)
    by ap in avl on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:57:34 PM EST
    to this.  Respond with "my wife is a strong, successful business woman who has her own investments while I focus on my job of serving my country".  Or something along those lines.....

    McCain has been courting the feminist vote.  Attacking him on his wife's wealth may not be a good strategy.

    Maybe it would be better for our own Democratic party to try to work for its traditional feminist base.  

    Oh I forgot.  They're giving us a symbolic roll call. (snark)

    Parent

    Senility (none / 0) (#198)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:53:01 PM EST
    McCain can't remember anything but the simplistic, maudlin propaganda he's wired to.

    Parent
    Gosh, that description reminds me of (none / 0) (#200)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:55:09 PM EST
    someone whose comments I have been reading.
    Who was that? Shoot.. can't remember.. getting tood old, myself!

    Parent
    Your doctor? (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Ennis on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:57:55 PM EST
    ?

    Parent
    More likely, it's about owning vs leasing ... (none / 0) (#210)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:02:52 PM EST
    ... vs owning as investment property.

    Obama, for instance, only 'owns' one house -- but he has more than one residence.

    The detail-devils could come back to bite Obama where he lives.

    Parent

    Hillary as 'game changer'? (none / 0) (#117)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:58:56 AM EST
    okay, I just realized something.

    Why should Obama need Hillary to for her "game changing" qualities.  He's got the Democratic National Convention coming up -- he can "change the game" there any way he wants to, and if he picks Hillary, he still has to "change the game" but in a very specific manner.

    If the polls were showing big problems three weeks ago, picking Hillary to 'change the game' at that point made sense.  But picking Hillary now actually interferes with Obama's planned messaging, because everyone will be talking about her....

    which may not be a bad thing (none / 0) (#130)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:05:23 PM EST
    If the GOP has CDS then Obama campaign could use that as an advantage to take the heat off Obama. Let them try and hit Hillary(who by the way seems to be quite adept at fighting them). It gives Obama some cover.

    Parent
    I hate that she takes the hits - (none / 0) (#171)
    by Xanthe on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:33:07 PM EST
    I hate it.  He should come to her defense should they.  But should is not would.

    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by cawaltz on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:49:54 PM EST
    and that would help him too. His best chance is if he can scoop up her hold outs(Do you hear me Obama enough with the coddling the GOP constituency already, they are solidifying for MCCAIN)by showing there IS party unity and even though the Clintons and him have differences, he respects and values their contributions to party and country. First though, he HAS TO eat humble pie and accept that he needs her and her demographic. You'd figure a guy stuck on a unity schtick would seek unity within his own party first and foremost before attempting to reach out to a new or old dissafected voters.

    Parent
    From Politico.com (none / 0) (#126)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:04:00 PM EST
    Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) met privately for 15 minutes Thursday morning at the Omni Richmond hotel with the staff of one of his top two or three prospects for running mate, Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine.

    Margaret Talev of McClatchy Newspapers, the pool reporter from the Obama press corps, reports that she asked the governor whether Obama has asked him to be his running mate.

    Awkward!

    Kaine replied: "I'm going to let the campaign speak for the campaign." Talev reports that he also declined to comment when she asked if he would rule it out.

    Talev asked him what he and Obama talked about. Kaine answered: "He visited with my staff just to basically say hi to them and thank them for all their hard work."

    Obama also took a photo with Kaine's staff. A thank-you, or a getting-to-know-you?

    Kaine seemed pretty cagey, but who knows?

    did Obama sneak into a bathroom... (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:12:59 PM EST
    ..when he was spotted on his way out by the media?

    ;)

    Parent

    kaine? geez why am i not surprised! (none / 0) (#133)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:08:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Carville agrees with BTD (none / 0) (#129)
    by americanincanada on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:04:58 PM EST
    Commentary: Why Obama has to get mad to win

    that is so not going to happen (5.00 / 0) (#138)
    by hellothere on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10:54 PM EST
    in my humble view. obama has too much ego, hubris, and arrogance(at the very least from those close to him) to make the right choices. this pony is on the road and has blinders to any side roads that might actually get this poor little pony where it needs to go.

    Parent
    it might happen.... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by p lukasiak on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:25:38 PM EST
    ...but it will be ineffective.

    Obama lacks the ability to project empathy -- and the for Carville's 'getting mad' about issues to work, 'empathy' is a prerequisite.

    (Obama followers think that Obama does show empathy, but that is really a product of the 'projection/identification' process that Obama encouraged -- they interpret Obama's high level of self-regard as empathy because they've projected their own identities onto him.)

    Parent

    Ack (none / 0) (#159)
    by Lahdee on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    Even the pony is begging for mercy. Can't keep the champagne oats on ice for long.

    Saturday in Illinois (none / 0) (#160)
    by NealB on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:22:13 PM EST
    Probably Clinton or they would have announced it already.

    Nah, they think Bayh will be an (none / 0) (#163)
    by MarkL on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:23:54 PM EST
    electrifying choice. Of course, Daschle is an attractive dark horse.

    Parent
    My preference... (none / 0) (#174)
    by mike in dc on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 12:35:34 PM EST
    ...next Wednesday morning, before the roll call vote, if it's Clinton.  Perfect unity ticket gesture, and an ultra-dramatic one at that.  Heck, she gets two speeches in prime time, if that happens.  If it isn't Clinton, Saturday morning is as good a time as any.  

    The other advantage of a last minute pick is that McCain gets no time to adjust his pick to answer Obama's, particularly if it's Clinton.  What, does he call the guy up Wednesday afternoon and say, sorry, we had to make some changes and you're no longer the guy?

    The One II (none / 0) (#214)
    by facta non verba on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 04:20:43 PM EST
    The McCain campaign put out a sequel to The One ad that mocked Obama. This is better. The punchline is a riot.

    New McCain Ad -- The One II

    When will it be? (none / 0) (#215)
    by Bluesage on Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:03:47 PM EST
    Does anyone still give a rats patootie?  This has become sophomoric and tiresome.  

    Forget Who, When? Open Thread | 210 comments (210 topical)