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Hillary Statement On Biden Pick

Hillary's response:

In naming my colleague and friend Senator Joe Biden to be the Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has continued in the best traditions for the Vice Presidency by selecting an exceptionally strong, experienced leader and devoted public servant. Senator Biden will be a purposeful and dynamic Vice President who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country.

< Saturday Morning VP Rollout | The Previous Statements Gambit >
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  • Display: Sort:
    Style, grace, and brains (5.00 / 26) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:21:45 AM EST


    It's funny how (5.00 / 6) (#44)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:50:04 AM EST
    people with CDS and some of Hillary's staunchest supporters think the same thing on this statement.  

    But her statement is about as big a vanilla cookie cutter statement as you can get.

    Someone snarked below that this statement will be seen as "not enough" by the CDS crowd.  I'm with MilitaryTracy in that I think it was a classy and smart statement.

    Parent

    "Strong, experienced leader" (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:03:56 AM EST
    The problem is, we need a strong experienced leader as President, and as for the VP slot we had a strong experienced leader who got more than half the votes.

    I agree with Hillary in a limited way about what she says but that's not the end of the story for me. This is the best one can say about the Joe Biden pick; unfortunately there are a lot of other things that are not so good about it.  

    Parent

    Hillary Knows This Is Her Chance! (1.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Cugel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:08:30 AM EST
    She has to help Obama win. That's all.

    If Obama loses, 1/2 the Democratic party will blame her for "not doing enough." I don't care if you agree. Hillary supporters will NEVER agree.

    But, you can bet that Obama's supporters WILL. And that will finish her. There will be endless bitterness and finger-pointing and Republicans laughing at Democrats for failing to rally together.

    And she will need those voters if she ever wants to run for President again. Think the black community would ever forgive her? Think she wouldn't need their votes (the most reliably Democratic constituency of all)?

    If she goes all out and campaigns hard until November, and Obama still somehow loses, she becomes the sentimental favorite for 2012. If he wins, she can have her pick of either a cabinet position or an appointment to the S.Ct. or she can become Senate Majority Leader (her natural position).

    Screw Harry Reid! Hillary should be majority leader and she will be!

    She will only have the tremendous influence she craves if Obama wins. Help him win and she can pretty much write her own universal health care proposal.

    Think about that for a minute. Back in the 90's Republicans privately admitted that the main thing that was wrong with Hillary's health care proposals was that "it lost." The went all out to defeat it because they knew it would be popular and become another Democratic advantage like Social Security that they would try in vain to repeal for the next 75 years.

    We can have that in the next 4 years, but only if Obama wins. It will be a vindication of everything she fought for back then. She will have a LOT of power and influence and Obama will not only OWE her a LOT, but she will have even more influence in the U.S. Senate.

    Personally, I think that would be a very good thing.

    Parent

    "the tremendous influence she craves"? (5.00 / 8) (#82)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:19:32 AM EST
    I think you're slightly off the reservation with this.  Hillary has already answered the question "What does Hillary want?"
    "Well, I want what I have always fought for in this whole campaign. I want to end the war in Iraq. I want to turn this economy around. I want health care for every American. I want every child to live up to his or her God-given potential. And I want the nearly 18 million Americans who voted for me to be respected, to be heard and no longer to be invisible."


    Parent
    Sigh (5.00 / 4) (#104)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:28:06 PM EST
    Can we have Hillary back?

    Parent
    Do you understand (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:52:39 PM EST
    how sick it is to have fallen for all that nonsense?  You poor thing.

    Parent
    Why does Hillary have to help? (5.00 / 4) (#120)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:58:08 PM EST
    Those same demands aren't being placed on anyone who isn't a Clinton.

    Can't have it both ways, and the cake is too stale to eat.

    Obama drove the wedge in the party, with the help and guidance of the party. If anyone needs to find a way to unite, it's Brazile, Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Clyburn, Biden, Obama (both of them), Olberman, Matthews, Gregory, Cafferty, and all the others who orchestrated the divide.


    Parent

    Third party (none / 0) (#134)
    by delandjim on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:50:58 PM EST
    I wonder is we could have a third party sometime. A lot of Dems to the right of leadership AND a lot of Repubs to the left of most of their leadership.

    The thing is whoever had the guts to do it needs a ton of money, big name recognition and armadillo skin to withstand attacks.

    I would love to see it.

    Parent

    Successful third party will not happen (none / 0) (#143)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:32:15 PM EST
    Until either one of the two major parties collapses, or elections are changed from winner-take-all to include something like instant runoff voting, or proportional representation in the case of Congressional elections.  There might be other ways, but these three stick out in my mind.  What the likelihood of any of these happening is, I couldn't say.

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#155)
    by delandjim on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:03:35 PM EST
     I just like to dream sometimes.

    Parent
    Her chance? (none / 0) (#137)
    by 0 politico on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:55:43 PM EST
    I've said it before - in 2016 the argument against her running will be that people don't want Grandma in the Oval Office.

    That is not how I would feel about her age then (69), but it is how all the detractors will start off.

    And, if BO loses this election, I am sure plenty of folks will try to deflect the blame on to HC.  That is their purogative.  But, they really need to look closely at their candidate (BO) and understand that beneath the suit and the tele prompter speeches, many see a really flawed candidate that does not represent what they want from the party.  The more his well hidden background and embossed narrative get exposed, the worse he looks.

    Sorry, but you must recognize where the problems are if he loses, and they are not with the Clintons.

    Parent

    What does CDS (none / 0) (#52)
    by dutchfox on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:55:17 AM EST
    mean? Thanks in advance.

    Parent
    Thanks Pal. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:59:43 AM EST
    It essentially refers to those who find a negative interpretation to or sinister reason behind anything Bill and/or Hillary Clinton say or do.  The people who believe the Clintons are the "evil empire" that must be stopped at all costs.

    Parent
    The most intelligent being knows (5.00 / 8) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:51:37 AM EST
    when and how to apply the big vanilla cookie cutter.  As I grow older I ever learn how to better choose my battles and not allow them to choose me.  I accomplish much more now, live happier and more fulfilled, realize that I am always able to address my goals and concerns and nurturing mutual respect only broadens those horizons.  There is a time to fight.....yet there are many many forms of winning and it is vitally important in my older age that I master knowing when to cash my winnings in to play a new game on a different day.

    Parent
    Like Maria Garcia said, below..... (5.00 / 10) (#50)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:52:07 AM EST
    IT ISN'T ENOUGH!!!!!!!

    Not sure what you thought she should say. Why does her cookie have to be bursting with flavor and sprinkles. She didn't have to say anything at all.

    What did Bayh say? What did Edwards say? What did Kaine say? What did Dodd say?

    The only really important comments are the ones coming out of Obama, himself, and Biden.

    Parent

    I'm sorry (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:08:04 AM EST
    but I just love this line:

    Why does her cookie have to be bursting with flavor and sprinkles.

    and hereby request permission to use it liberally.

    Parent

    Bill did say he would make a statement at the (none / 0) (#142)
    by BronxFem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:25:39 PM EST
    end of January, 2009.

    Parent
    Always A Classy Response (5.00 / 8) (#2)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:23:08 AM EST
    She'll always be the epitome of class and loyalty that no one else in the Democratic Party -- least of all the man who's now been chosen to lead it -- will ever exhibit.

    Especially classy (5.00 / 7) (#4)
    by madamab on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:27:49 AM EST
    given that the rollout was at 3 a.m. They just can't help sticking it to her in these petty ways, can they?

    I think she is relieved he didn't pick her. She would have had a hard time saying no because she is a loyal Dem, but I doubt she would have had much influence in the administration if he somehow were elected. She would not have been his Cheney - she would have been his Quayle.

    Some got the text message around 2am ... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:42:28 AM EST
    ... some at 2:30, 2:45 ... 6:00 am, etc

    There's no reason to believe this was intended as a snub to Hillary.

    As has already been pointed out here by others.

    Parent

    Oh gosh, of course not. (5.00 / 8) (#32)
    by madamab on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:44:47 AM EST
    The Obama team would never do anything to snub Hillary. /s

    Parent
    Very true, but this isn't it (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by lambert on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:45:59 AM EST
    Now not vetting, that's another kick in the teeth.

    Parent
    Patti Solis Doyle? (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by madamab on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:49:18 AM EST
    Yet another.

    I suppose you've all decided this wasn't intentional, but I don't agree. Why didn't he release it on Thursday, when he said he would?

    And the different times could have to do with time zones and server overload.

    Parent

    You tell 'em madamab....for some it is (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:02:07 AM EST
    always better to just keep their heads in the sand.  I don't see the Biden pick putting obama over the top in the GE....just saying

    Parent
    I agree with someone (Jeralyn?) (5.00 / 4) (#45)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:50:31 AM EST
    who made that point that she is one person in America who did not need to be vetted, what more could be found out.

    Parent
    I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by massdem on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:39:51 AM EST
    there was some financial info that Clinton refused to release until after the primaries, and from what we've heard, she was never asked to turn over anything at all to Obama's campaign.
    If they were smart, they would have gone through the motions, anyway.
    As much as I like Joe Biden, I vote for the President, not the VP, and I find Obama lacking.


    Parent
    EGADS!!! (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:57:58 AM EST
    Are we facing a public release of all of Biden's financial and personal data?

    Actually, I don't remember McCain ever releasing everything in his and Cindy's financial portfolio. The distraction ahead will be to start screaming once again for those documents and disclosures!

    Parent

    Were those on Obama's list vetted publicly? (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:34 PM EST
    ...by the media?  (See: Public release of Clinton's financial material.) Or was it a private and confidential process?

    Also, wouldn't the Obama team request the participation of any of the folks they were vetting?  I doubt if they used some sort of secret subpoena power to get the information that they needed.

    Parent

    How do you find McCain? (none / 0) (#96)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:44:17 AM EST
    Usually you can find McCain (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by RalphB on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:51:03 PM EST
    by looking just slightly to the right of Obama  :-)

    However, if Obama keeps morphing you may find McCain on his left by November.

    Parent

    Ah yes, the most convincing argument (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by echinopsia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:12:01 PM EST
    anyone can muster for Obama: he's not as bad as McCain.

    How inspiring. How motivating. How convincing.

    /snark

    Parent

    Those are our two options (none / 0) (#133)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:44:42 PM EST
    The real world sucks

    Parent
    If we expand our majorities in Congress (none / 0) (#106)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:32:24 PM EST
    He would be an ineffectual neutered president who could keep the seat warm while the DNC is gutted, and rebuilt. Our nominating process is made more fair and democratic. IE no more caucus gaming and rule massaging.

    If we do not expand our majority, he would be a disaster. The thing is I feel like a majority of the disaffected dems who cannot support Senator Obama are going to go third party. Vis a vis Gore/Bush/Nader or Clinton/Bush/Perot.

    Not necessarily vote for McCain. Either way I do not see this ending well for the Democrats. The only thing potentially positive thing about a President Obama is that we'll have a good team supporting him.

    Parent

    The fact that Obama did not even consider (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:10:19 AM EST
    Hillary Clinton for the VP should cause "unity" supporters to question how interested Obama is in party unity.  

    I've been talking with former Obama supporters who are now wondering if the "least-bad" thing that could happen now is for McCain to win and for us to regroup in 2010 & 2012.  Personally, I don't know what the right thing to do is, or what would be the best thing to happen, but I don't have the conviction to come out and tell them that they are wrong, as I would have in previous years.

    Parent

    Only option now is (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by chopper on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:24:15 PM EST
    To vote for McCain (who will be controlled by a Democratic Congress) and HILLARY CLINTON 2012.

    It's better than putting up with a trainee and a second-rate politician.  Biden may know a bit about foreign relations, but he doesn't know how to create another Greatest Economic Expansion in History.  That was a Clinton specialty.

    Obama dissed Clinton's Great Economy, so I guess we can expect something more in the way of Jimmy Carter's economy. Hold on to your spare change.

    Parent

    Yeah he dissed it BUT (none / 0) (#156)
    by delandjim on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 04:11:37 PM EST
    He hired the two leading economic advisers from Clinton that helped engineer it.

    It won't happen again because of many things. For one we start from a bigger hold in that larger segments of the economy are shot. (energy, real estate/financial,etc.)

    Also no peace dividend in the foreseeable future. We will have to spend billions to rebuild the broken military and Russia is not poor anymore and needs to enter the equation.

    Parent

    Of course they have (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by robrecht on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:47:10 AM EST
    As I suspect Hillary also has done.  Just don't think there's a valid case that this was done to snub Hillary.

    Parent
    The text message roll-out was just (5.00 / 16) (#59)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:01:04 AM EST
    another way to vacuum up more information in the hope of raking in the cash the Obama campaign will need in the coming weeks.  

    Yesterday, I heard someone on CNN, I think, say that someone in the Obama campaign disclosed that they had a goal for how many cell numbers they wanted before they did the roll-out, and that explanation made more sense to me than all this baloney about whether Obama's first choice may have turned it down.

    The roll-out itself was not a snub to Hillary - it was the way they kept up the illusion that she was ever under consideration.  Imagine hearing the "she'd be on anyone's short list" and all the other disingenuous statements that have been made, knowing that either no one from the campaign has even raised it with you, or you were told flat-out that you weren't even under consideration.  Imagine coming within a hair of being the nominee, and all that says about your strength and popularity, and not even getting the courtesy of the same phone calls that went out to Kaine and Bayh - how is that not the ultimate snub?

    The night in NH when he said "you're likeable enough, Hillary," I knew all I needed to know about Barack Obama's character.

    Parent

    right (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:13:18 AM EST

    He's not that into you

    Parent

    I'm deciding that this is (5.00 / 11) (#87)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:23:10 AM EST
    an "hell with women" campaign.  Biden and his Anita Hill past and of course Obama treatment of Clinton and the cheeky smiles at the misogyny happening in the primaries.

    Of course, Obama could have chosen a woman for VP but he needed a man who was "tough" and experienced.  Of course there are no women in the US or state government who could possibly fit that role according to the Obama campaign.

    He appears to have gotten the message that he was inexperienced and that seniors were not in his camp, so Biden is the missing link. Maybe it will work and women will fall in line again.

    So now we have Biden for the experience, foreign relations, national security, seniors, political savvy, age, delivery.  Sort of like President Biden and Acting President Obama. Oh yeah.  That works.  

    Parent

    Not just women, but economic populists (none / 0) (#144)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:35:37 PM EST
    and Jacksonian Democrats, too.

    Parent
    Jacksonian Democrats (none / 0) (#177)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:46:52 AM EST
    that's the "old" Democratic Party. The new one is like an America caste system; ranked by income, education, age and, it appears gender.

    We're screwed.

    Parent

    I don't think this was a snub to her (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by litigatormom on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:45:41 AM EST
    I think the rollout got botched after Mrs. Greenspan broke the story at 6pm yesterday that Kaine and Bayh were out.  Why they delayed the rollout after that, I have no idea.  Maybe the IT guy who was supposed to push the button was out to dinner?

    Hillary's statement is pure class, and despite the persistent attempts by the MSM to suggest that she will undermine the ticket rather than truly support it, I think she will do everything she can to get them elected.  

    Parent

    Nah, not his Quayle. (none / 0) (#76)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:13:16 AM EST
    Danny Boy was shunted aside because the once clueless Poppy woke up to realize he came to office with an absolute lightweight and public embarrassment.  Better to quietly keep him off stage or at least out of substantive decision making.  

    But Hillary is no lightweight or embarrassment.  In an O admin, she would have (in the not unlikely and worst case scenario which I've brought up here before many times) been deemed (along with Bill) as too much of a headache to have hanging around the Oval -- more like Lyndon to Kennedy in that sense.  LBJ was increasingly given fewer private meetings w/Kennedy as the years went on, and was largely given frequent and lengthy overseas duties.

    O would have likely found himself in somewhat similar uneasy circumstances with another highly intelligent, experienced and ambitious VP, and being human and not liking how he would have been forced to take her on the ticket like LBJ forced Kennedy, would have likely found ways to have her be somewhat less of a full working partner than she should have been given her qualifications.

    HRC never was a good fit for O's VP, not after the bitter primaries, and not when a few other Veep alternatives were available.  I just wish somehow the O camp had found a way to make this a little clearer to Dems pre-VP pick.

    Parent

    Oh (5.00 / 0) (#127)
    by lilburro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:22:04 PM EST
    appointing Patti Solis Doyle made it clear for a little while.

    Parent
    3 am (none / 0) (#164)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:40:03 PM EST
    Had nothing to do with Senator Clinton.  TV got a jump on them and they rushed to get it out ASAP.

    Parent
    Nicely said, Hillary. (5.00 / 14) (#5)
    by chel2551 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:30:03 AM EST
    We'll be watching your next four years with more interest.  That's for sure.

    You make us proud.

    Grace under pressure (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by No Blood for Hubris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:32:07 AM EST
    But make no mistake, everything will continue to be all Hillary's fault.

    IACF! (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by madamab on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:33:59 AM EST
    But anyone clueless enough to believe that has an incurable case of HDS. There's nothing she can do about that.

    I'm sure some of the Cheetos are already finding fault with her statement.

    Parent

    There's never any shortage (5.00 / 9) (#86)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:22:35 AM EST
    of condescending, carping criticism of what women "need to do" or "have to do," in my experience.

    Parent
    This is silly... (none / 0) (#165)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:41:17 PM EST
    I haven't seen a single comment from an Obama supporter that criticizes Senator Clinton's statement.

    Parent
    It's not enough!!!!!!!!!!! (5.00 / 9) (#9)
    by Maria Garcia on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:33:09 AM EST
    </snark>

    Well, Hillary is still relevant no matter what (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:33:54 AM EST
    anyone else says. Who cares, for example, what Chris Dodd thinks about this?

    Well, I do but I'm strange :) (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:35:50 AM EST
    You're not alone... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by indy in sc on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:40:08 AM EST
    Chris Dodd's children also care what he thinks about this pick. ;).

    Parent
    Yeah, except her relevance (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:21:18 AM EST
    seems to consist mainly of the media and the O Boys constantly questioning her motives and bashing her for 'not doing enough'. If I were her, I think I'd rather be irrelevant like Dodd right now.

    She'll never be relevant in the sense that the boys club thinks Biden is, for example.

    Parent

    Class all the way (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:35:26 AM EST
    I was hoping that Senator Obama would have picked her but alas it is not to be. I now feel relieved that she doesn't have to clean up the mess he caused and she can come back in 4 years. Sometimes you have to destroy something to rebuild it.

    Profound relief is what I'm feeling too. (5.00 / 9) (#23)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:42:12 AM EST
    I didn't want her anywhere near this sinking ticket.  We're going to need her in the Senate for the next 4 years standing up to whichever one is president on liberal issues.

    Parent
    What you said, plus (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:46:40 AM EST
    relief this non-stop talking and speculating about the VP choice. The only thing that glared at me over the coverage and anticipation is how vitally important the VP is this time. I don't ever remember such a frenzy.


    Parent
    Java....yep, Hillary dodged a bullet :) (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:08:07 AM EST
    RE: "how vitally important the VP is at this time"...wouldn't be an issue if the presumptive nominee had the experience he needs.  AS far as a frenzy over the announcement, it turned out to be a snore fest for many of us...think Chicken Little and "we are on orange alert"...

    Parent
    I'm taking back (5.00 / 11) (#79)
    by magisterludi on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:14:25 AM EST
    the word "liberal" from the GOP slime machine and all the lousy dems, too.

    I am a proud Liberal with a penchant for social justice and fundamental fairness. I reject the "progressive" label. To me it symbolizes the craven dem party and their slow march to total corporate fealty.

    And right now, I'm a person without a party.

    Parent

    Me too (5.00 / 5) (#88)
    by MichaelGale on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:25:06 AM EST
    Me three (5.00 / 5) (#92)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:32:17 AM EST
    I guess that makes me "me four" :) (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:21:42 PM EST
    Very true (5.00 / 6) (#89)
    by blogtopus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:27:43 AM EST
    As of August 28th, 2008, the Liberal political spectrum will officially no longer have a party representing them.

    Not hyperbole, folks. Make a list of Liberal goals, and see how many of those the Obama campaign is either ignoring or damaging.

    Parent

    Greens are liberal (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by splashy on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 03:13:17 PM EST
    Unabashedly so. They aren't big, but could be.

    Parent
    I think this is right (none / 0) (#147)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:44:52 PM EST
    but with one caveat: that a lot of self-identified liberals  were arguably duped into thinking that Barack was the second coming of liberalism.  So the ones still 'clinging' to 'hope' feel as if their liberalism, such as it is, is represented, because he said a lot of the right things in the primary and was supposedly against the war.

    Parent
    Yaay! on all counts (5.00 / 8) (#90)
    by Valhalla on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:27:55 AM EST
    ITA, on all points.

    I'm without a party too.  But I'm a PUMA, and I don't apologize for that.  I'm a feminist, and I don't apologize for that.  I'm a liberal, and I don't apologize for that.

    I'm also a lawyer, but I do sort of apologize for that.

    Parent

    This is a good subject for PB 2.0 discussion (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:04:00 PM EST
    What is a 'progressive'?  What is a 'liberal'? And which legacy do we consider ourselves more a part of?

    On the one hand, a year ago many were calling themselves progressives and contrasting it positively to being liberal. See shystee at Corrente in January:

    my own personal definition* of Liberal: people who want things like universal healthcare, out of Iraq, privacy rights, help for the homeless, good public schools, justice, equality, etc... but accept the excuses made by politicians and the media for why these things are not possible.
    FWIW, there are others at Corrente that might have a beef with that statement, but it seemed worth highlighting.  Matt Yglesias had a different take:

    while the historically Progressives did stand for some good things, and are a part of the backstory of contemporary American liberalism, they also stood for some very bad things. Certainly, whatever sins liberalism may have committed in the 1970s as it fell into disrepute were distinctly minor compared to the problems with the Progressives.

    "Liberal," by contrast, is an important term with a noble history and a contested legacy. I think the notion that something like contemporary American liberalism is, in fact, the correct instantiation of the historic liberal project for our times is a proposition that's worth fighting for.

    If you recall, Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. called himself a liberal:
    ''I'm an unrepentant and unreconstructed liberal and New Dealer,'' he said in an interview, peering over a cluttered desk. ''That means I favor the use of government to improve opportunities and enlarge freedoms for ordinary people.''
    Here's another perspective from Bruce Miroff:
    Miroff shows that it is largely the McGovern campaign alumni who shaped what's legitimate and doable in Democratic Party politics since that time. They have been convinced that there is a fixed center in American political life, that this is a centrist nation and that successful politics can only occur close to that center.  This group badly misread a series of elections after McGovern.

    [...]

    Becoming the party of new professionals and new entrepreneurs, Democrats were now defined by social progressivism and economic restraint. Miroff argues this is exactly what the Republicans want them to be and why so much effort went into defeating Clinton's health care initiative; if the Democrats delivered big time to working people, they might win. Unfortunately, that was only a Republican strategic understanding.

    Thoughts on this distinction between liberal and progressive?  What do TL readers consider themselves?  I bring up this topic because it seems important that we know who we are and what we stand for going forward.

    Personally, I always thought the right path was a mixture of New Deal liberalism and an appreciation for both the liberal and conservative cultural elements in American society (otherwise we risk looking extremely out of touch).  I don't mean caving to religious right demands, but rather adopting that cultural conservatism in a way that aligns with our values.  Just to use one example, consider the John Edwards affair story from any number of angles: the betrayal of his wife's trust and his marriage vows, the lying, the double standards in how men and women are judged in these matters, the lack of judgment in running for President and possibly denying Hillary the nomination, and how many liberals or progressives' first instinct is to say "so what? to each his own, none of our business, etc."  In a way it was none of our business, but I hope what I'm trying to get at is clear.

    I'd love to hear others' thoughs on these matters.

    Parent

    In my book (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by magisterludi on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:32:37 PM EST
    MY and most "lefty" bloggers are more neo-liberal, than old school Everyman liberal  or even progressive. That's why they like Obama. They were brought up to accept a lot of things at face value.

    Just like my generation was conditioned to equate communism and socialism with evil and grayness, they have been conditioned that "free markets" are teh awesome and to think otherwise is blasphemy.

    As far as social issues go, when the Right to Life crowd starts acting like they actually care about improving the lives of others rather than just lecturing and throwing elections, maybe I'll listen. AFAIC, they're the ones who should be making some concessions. I do believe we've made too many already.

    Parent

    Agreed in re too many concessions (none / 0) (#130)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:35:12 PM EST
    I hope it didn't come across as me advocating concessions; I suppose with regards to Edwards I was just trying to point out that sometimes what we might see as social conservatism isn't really their exclusive domain.  For another example, think of the effect that divorces brought on by infidelity have on women and children: often a careless affair leads women to rightly want out of a marriage, and divorce can thrust a mother and child instantly into poverty and affect the child's development and future opportunities, not to mention have profound psychological distress.  As many others have pointed out, being 'pro-family' is not the exclusive province of the religious right.

    Parent
    Progressives began as Republicans (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:02:53 PM EST
    and many still are.  You can tell by their orangey tint.

    Progressives evolved from "status anxiety," unquote Hofstadter, and that's still true of today's, too.  

    You bet Progressives stood for some bad things.  Eugenics was quite popular among them.  And they did not stand for racial and gender equality when it mattered.

    They accomplished many good things, too, from their start in standing up to the first big business, railroads.  But as the saying goes, even Mussolini made the trains run on time.

    I don't like the label at all.  I'm a proud liberal.

    Parent

    Thanks for the comments (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Iris on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:03:31 PM EST
    I appreciate your insights.  Good point about eugenics and the failure to stand up for gender and racial equality.  I also have to say that I would consider myself an "unreconstructed" liberal.

    A while back when reading up on this subject to see what others thought and were reading now, I came across this Campus Progress article that troubled me somewhat.  Here's what it is telling the young people of America about 'progressivism':

    So what the heck is "progressive"? Those called `progressives' of the late 19th and early 20th century, including such figures as presidents Theodore Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson, were renowned for checking the rise of corporate power and abuses and expanding democratic rights domestically.
    I'd hardly say that this is all they were known for, but such information is conveniently omitted.
    "At its core," John Halpin, senior advisor on the staff of the Center for American Progress writes, "progressivism is a non-ideological, pragmatic system of thought grounded in solving problems and maintaining strong values within society....Sound enticing? It should be: The future of America's progressive political landscape is in your hands.
    Sounds very hopey-changey-grass-roots-ey, much like the Obama campaign itself. Except, of course, so-called progressives do not have much influence or have the future 'in their hands," if anything it seems like they gave up the goose without getting anything (Lambert's "And we get?" comes to mind).  In being so proudly "non-ideological," (because liberalism is apparently so...icky) this kind of so-called progressive ends up standing for nothing at all, and we're witnessing that right now aren't we?

    It's not liberalism.

    The first key to understanding progressivism is that it's not the same as liberalism, as many might assume. "Progressivism is an orientation towards politics," Halpin said in an interview with Campus Progress. "It's not a long-standing ideology like liberalism, but an historically-grounded concept ... that accepts the world as dynamic." Progressivism is not an ideology at all, but an attitude towards the world of politics that is far less black-and-white than conservatism or liberalism, breaking free from the false and divisive dichotomy of liberal vs. conservative that has dominated American politics for too long.

    Does this sound like a bunch of malarkey to anyone else?  Unity08, anyone?  There's a grain of truth in there somewhere, as politics isn't always black and white, but it seems like a definition that is wildly open to interpretation.

    On the other hand, there are a good many HRC supporters concerned with core liberal values that have also taken to calling themselves 'progressive,' even HRC herself (in one of the debates).

    Anyway, sorry for cluttering up the comment thread, but this is an interesting issue that seems worthy of discussing.

    Parent

    Great stuff -- I'm copying and pasting (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 02:13:32 PM EST
    from this and magisterludi's comments for my files.

    And, yeh, malarkey is one of the words for it all.  And not "just words."  

    Those who do not know their history are destined to repeat it, and all that.  But why the h*ll do they get to repeat it on us.

    Parent

    Progressive (none / 0) (#167)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:44:05 PM EST
    is an old label that has nothing to do with corporate.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

    Parent
    That's what MY President looks like! (5.00 / 5) (#119)
    by Ellie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:56:18 PM EST
    Too bad the Repug-fearing Dems find her Girl Cooties "divisive".

    Clinton/Feingold in '12.

    In passing, Obama's comment about seeking a "sparring partner" bugged the p!ss out of me.

    I've met sparring partners. I've had my delicate @ss kicked by sparring partners. I've BEEN a sparring partner (of people's worst nightmares) -- and Biden, suh, is no sparring partner. He's just another tropic creature following the glare of camera lights and workin' the teeth, as usual.

    Don't care if this is written off as Sour Grapes of Bitter Knitting.

    I didn't like hearing Sen Obama dismiss Sen Clinton -- who was tied or ahead at that point -- as a good "workout" for him;  his "Spring Training" (while fauxgressive @ss-kisser Jon Stewart fawned and nodded agreeably on The Daily Show).

    Of course it was a media-given the Silly B!tch should and would quit, as helpful women who are more qualified, more experienced, and earned more votes would do the right thing.

    Best of luck to the Old Boiz' Network. Coffee machine's that way, guys.

    Parent

    Senate (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:38:31 AM EST
    What if any odds are there that Hillary will take over Reid's job?  


    Hopefully high (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by DemForever on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:40:49 AM EST
    She would be so much better than Harry

    Parent
    I hope that is the deal... (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:43:01 AM EST
    cause no matter what happens, gooffy Dem boys will do nothing.  And the gal over in the House is not so un gooffy herself.  

    Parent
    And that's why (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by magisterludi on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:16:05 AM EST
    she won't get the job.

    Parent
    It depends on who's elected. (5.00 / 9) (#36)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:47:09 AM EST
    If it's McCain, then absolutely, I can see her in that job, if Chris Dodd doesn't trample her trying to take it away from Harry Reid.  Dodd was, if I recall, vying for it against Reid in 2006, so, he may still want it.

    If it's Obama, there's no way Hillary gets that job.  The last thing the Obama Fan Club in the Senate will want is the vanquished opponent in there to make trouble for the brilliant and transformative agenda that will be coming out of the Obama White House.  Pelosi will call in as many chips as she needs to with her Senate colleagues to convince them that Clinton would be a speed bump on the Obama Highway to Nirvana.

    Would that we could send Nancy to the back bench, but I don't see that happening, either.

    Parent

    Obama Highway to Nirvana (5.00 / 0) (#41)
    by justinboston2008 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:49:00 AM EST
    That made me spray coffee all over my laptop.
    Thanks :)

    Parent
    One consideration, of course (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:55:12 AM EST
    If Obama were to win this election, 2 Democratic Senators are out of the Senate. The majority members could easily be Republicans.

    Parent
    Two Dems leave the senate to (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:04:54 AM EST
    be replaced by two other Dems.  No net change.  No issue here at all.

    Parent
    Don't the replacements depend on the (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:10:06 AM EST
    governors of the states in question?

    Parent
    Even if so... (none / 0) (#168)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:47:38 PM EST
    The Delaware and Illinois governors are Dems.

    If you don't know about Ruth Ann Minnner, Delaware governor, you should check her out:
    http://governor.delaware.gov/biography.shtml

    Parent

    Great breakdown. (none / 0) (#40)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:48:23 AM EST
    Slim to none. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Joan in VA on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:05:13 AM EST
    I think that there will be some..... (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:07:15 AM EST
    ...big jobs that will have to be done, no mattter who wins.  Edwards probably torpedoed any serious health care reform for a while, but that will definitely have to be addressed at some point, and I'm not sure who else could do a better job of leading that fight.  There's also the question of what importance will be placed by the new president on women's and reproductive issues.

    I think Clinton's survival in this campaign has enhanced her gravitas to a remarkable degree.  I'm sure she'll use that as she sees fit.

    If she excercises more power in the senate as the result of this whole process, whether Clinton is part of a new "race" for the Majority Leader position seems to be almost beside the point.

    Parent

    She's probably one of the best qualified, (none / 0) (#27)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:43:32 AM EST
    but she's a Junior Senator.

    Parent
    Seniority has little to do with it (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:50:50 AM EST
    with picking a Leader.  It's who the majority of the Dem caucus in the senate wants.

    Right now, last I checked, HR has publicly stated he wants to continue in his job.  Haven't heard about major dissent w/n the ranks to cause him to lose it, either.

    Frankly, as a major HRC backer in the primaries, I was somewhat taken aback, to say the least, as the endorsements came in in 07 and to my chagrin I found that the even more junior senator from IL had received slightly more endorsements (iirc) than did my candidate.

    That does not augur well for her swooping in against Reid to take over his job.

    I'd prefer she become a major progressive voice in the senate, like TKennedy, and not go for the ML spot -- unless Reid decides to step aside.

    Parent

    The Senate has to remain majority (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:57:52 AM EST
    Democratic. Two Senators have been placed in contention for the WH.


    Parent
    Huh? Both senators, when (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:03:52 AM EST
    they get elected to higher office, will be replaced by two more Dem replacements.

    And that's in addition to our party picking up probably a minimum net of 5 senate seats this yr.  There is no issue of Dems retaining majority party status in the senate for the upcoming session.

    The question here was only about who would lead them.

    Parent

    At 3 AM (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:38:38 AM EST
    Hillary is ready to be President.
    Hillary '12

    The rest is just waiting.
    I'm getting used to the idea of President McCain. Too bad about the war, the economy, the Supreme Court, the environment, and civil rights for anyone, much less women and gays.

    I just don't see the Dems pulling this one out.

    HC12 (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by blogtopus on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:31:06 AM EST
    HC12
    HC12
    HC12

    That'd make a great bumper sticker to sell Nov 5. I should come up with a full set of paraphernalia.

    Parent

    I think instead it's 2016 (none / 0) (#170)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:52:36 PM EST
    Biden won't be interested anyway.  Senator Clinton has eight years to become the established and very successful leader of a Democratic senate under a Democratic President.  She'll be like Senator Kennedy, only electable.

    I know her supporters are unhappy, but really, truly, Senator Obama is on the same page with almost all policies as Senator Clinton and the Dems are going to wipe up the Republicans this election.  

    Parent

    Gracious to the core, as always (5.00 / 11) (#21)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:40:19 AM EST
    with not a scintilla of resentment.

    Of course, as I read it, it was obvious to me that the line about Biden being an "exceptionally strong, experienced leader and devoted public servant" could have been said about her, and when I read, "...who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country," I couldn't help but think that the rest of that passage could have been, "because there's no way he can do it on his own merits, and as for governing - you're kidding, right?  Joe Biden is the required adult presence in the car with the rookie driver."

    She would never say that, and I'm not even saying she could have been planting those thoughts, but it's what I couldn't help thinking when I read it.

    I eagerly await her and Bill's speeches, which I think are going to be barn-burners.

    Which Is Well-Illustrated... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by JimWash08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:57:56 AM EST
    Joe Biden is the required adult presence in the car with the rookie driver

    ...In The Graphic That Jeralyn designed and uses in her posts about her disappointment with the Veep choice.

    Parent

    Heh, apply the same rules many (none / 0) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:13:43 AM EST
    states now have with the "graduated license".

    Parent
    only thing i can add is hillary (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by hellothere on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:44:14 AM EST
    showed again why she should be heading the ticket. let the games begin, oops let them continue.

    Boiler plate (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:44:26 AM EST
    In naming my

    a) colleague and friend Senator Joe Biden
    b) colleague and friend Senator Evan Bayh
    c) friend Virginia Governor Tim Kaine

    to be the Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has continued in the best traditions for the Vice Presidency by selecting an

    a) exceptionally strong, experienced leader
    b) strong, exceptionally experienced leader
    c) strong, experienced leader

    and devoted public servant

    a) Senator Biden
    b) Senator Bayh
    c) Governor Kaine

    will be a purposeful and dynamic Vice President who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country.


    Suggest a re-write (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by catfish on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:50:01 AM EST
    seriously, what is she supposed to say?

    Parent
    I shudder to think what the media and (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by JavaCityPal on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:17:12 AM EST
    Obama supporters would say if she found the nerve to take a relaxing vacation to work through some grief for her friends who have gone, and the battering she has taken for so many months.

    As much as I aspire to be like her, I sure as h*ll wouldn't want to be her.


    Parent

    I'm an Obama supporter... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 06:55:48 PM EST
    and I'd have no problem with her taking a break at all.

    All national politicians are battered.  It's part of the job.  She's as tough as any of them out there, and has been at this for a long time.  She is probably no more bothered by losing than any of the other candidates who didn't happen to win this time.

    Parent

    exactly what she said.... (2.00 / 0) (#84)
    by p lukasiak on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:20:05 AM EST
    my point is that there is nothing especially "classy" about the statement, nor is it in any way "not enough".  

    Boilerplate is what is required -- anything other than boilerplate takes the focus away from the candidate.  Boilerplate fulfills the media's demand for a comment without being a story itself....

    and my comment was meant as an expression of annoyance at the ridiculous praise that Hillary is getting for just doing what is both appropriate and glaringly obvious.

    Parent

    Boilerplate. (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:58:50 AM EST
    Took the word(s) right outta my mouth.

    Written by a solid staffer who churns this stuff out just as I used to do.

    Ready to go...fill in the blanks.

    Parent

    Can't wait to see this pair on the stump! (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by Ellie on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:34:19 PM EST
    Yep, just a couple'a modern guys doin' what guys do.

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 12:47:38 PM EST
    Thank you.

    Gee, I'm going to have to hone my photoshopping skills again.

    Parent

    The good soldier (5.00 / 5) (#38)
    by lentinel on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:47:32 AM EST
    We all know this about Hillary.
    Willing to take one for the team.

    This is, however, a sad moment.

    She got 18 mil votes (5.00 / 10) (#46)
    by delacarpa on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 10:50:36 AM EST
    and wasn't ever considered, and didn't he say she would be on anyone's short list. Anyone but Obama's short list. There aren't words to express my feelings that someone who won the popular vote, someone who had more experience than he did and was not even given a consideration. You would think that he would at least tried to make it look like he cared. There is lots of built up anger and look to that being fixed come Nov.

    Yes, but... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Realleft on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 07:02:22 PM EST
    Of course she was considered.  What does that even mean?  Senator Obama wants to win the election, of course he considered her.

    The "popular vote" thing I know is a rallying cry, but she only won that if you look at it from a very particular angle.

    I would imagine not being picked has far more to do with her husband than with her.  Sorry that it's that way, but it would be a huge leap of faith for any nominee to take on the burdens of another politician's long-time philandering partner.  That's not a direct criticism from me, as I frankly don't care what any of them do in their marriages, but the rumors continue, and in addition, Mr. Clinton was apparently not willing to open up his finances for review by the Obama campaign.  I know its hard to think there are valid reasons for things not turning out the way Clinton supporters want, but I doubt there is anything personal here between these politicians in the way that there are all these personalizations online.

    Parent

    Biden has plenty of weaknesses, as will (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:04:33 AM EST
    be brought to the forefront soon enough.  He must be excited, as this is as close to being president he will get since his presidential runs have all fallen flat.

    So (5.00 / 7) (#66)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:04:49 AM EST
    he chooses a guy with

    *a 36% NARAL rating (I know about NARAL).

    *and someone who, in the past, wasn't well liked by women for his treatment of Anita Hill.

    In a year when people are screaming misogyny, was this the best pick?  

    Maybe so, since there wasn't a single good pick out there for such a weak candidate.  Both Biden and Clinton create a bottom-heavy ticket.

    CreamCity, I'm looking forward to your bibliography on Biden and Anita Hill (please).

    the downside of experience (none / 0) (#97)
    by AlSmith on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:54:16 AM EST
    the downside of someone with a long record is that they will have a long clip reel.

    I really will mow the grass at some time today but I found this on The Corner:

    "I remark in passing there that Biden used to be pro-life. I'm traveling now but somewhere in my files I have a copy of a 1982 letter the senator sent to a constituent bragging about voting for a constitutional amendment to reverse Roe."

    May not be accurate, but there you go.

    Parent

    You rang? (none / 0) (#125)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 01:16:44 PM EST
    Where, oh where, is Kathy?!

    This all brings back so much for me that makes me so angry that I barely can type.  And from me, that's saying/typing something. :-)

    But -- a classic starter for the reading list on the hearings is Phelps and Winternitz's Capitol Games.  And for less than a book, see the relevant reading in the book with the better title: Hull, Smith, and the great Ann Scott's All the Women Are White, All the Blacks Are Men, but Some of Us Are Brave.

    Btw, read anything by Scott, one of the founding mothers of women's studies.  I saw her recently at the great gathering of women's historians, the Berks, and it still is something to see when she takes the podium.  A woman not even five foot tall now still has more stature than any men making the news today.  She has fought such good fights.

    Parent

    Curb Your Enthusiasm. (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by rise hillary rise on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:33:36 AM EST
    what was she supposed to say, really, after Team Obama's treatement of her-and her supporters. I give her credit for keeping it polite and staying above the fray. she can go out with her head held high.

    It will be interesting to see how much the Clintons do for the campaign between now and the GE. To be honest, I doubt we will see or hear much from them.

    obama interested in unity? (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by cpinva on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:36:08 AM EST
    oh puhleazzzzzzzzzzzze, spare me will you? obama is interested in............obama. nothing more, nothing less.

    the statement by sen. clinton was, as always, a class act. effusive in its glowing praise? nah. why should it be, neither obama or biden deserve it.

    if i were sen. clinton, i'd be breathing a sigh of relief, that obama didn't ask me to be veep, thus sparing me from having to witness this upcoming electoral disaster from the inside.

    perfect statement from Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by DandyTIger on Sat Aug 23, 2008 at 11:54:17 AM EST
    Couldn't ask for more. And now that there is a VP choice, it's time for Hillary to get back to her job as NY senator. I don't expect her to do anything more f