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Sunday Afternoon Open Thread

We've had some requests for an open thread -- here it is.

The radio stations in Denver are playing great music today. On right now: The Rolling Stones, You Can't Always Get What You Want. My favorite stations: Boulder's KBCO (97.3 FM) and 99.5 FM, The Mountain. They are streamed so you can listen on your computer wherever you are.

I'm not afraid the police are going to get out of control. Things have been smooth sailing here today. And the police on downtown streets aren't dressed in riot gear like they were in Boston.

The weather is gorgeous. Wish you all were here.

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    Thanks Jeralyn (5.00 / 9) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:44:14 PM EST
    I have a link to a funny story:

    [Ed Rendell said at an event] Ladies and gentleman, the coverage of Barack Obama was embarrassing," said Rendell, in the ballroom at Denver's Brown Palace Hotel. "It was embarrassing."

    [. . .]

    "MSNBC was the official network of the Obama campaign," Rendell said, who called their coverage "absolutely embarrassing."

    Chris Matthews, Rendell said, "loses his impartiality when he talks about the Clintons."

    [. . .]

    Woodruff allowed Brokaw to respond, and in defending the network, he said that Matthews and Keith Olbermann are "not the only voices" on MSNBC.




    And I'll say again, I love your Governor! (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:47:07 PM EST
    So many good quotes (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:49:18 PM EST
    Woodruff allowed Brokaw to respond, and in defending the network, he said that Matthews and Keith Olbermann are "not the only voices" on MSNBC.

    Judas kiss?

    Parent

    Even the response is embarrassing (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:50:22 PM EST
    But one thing to remember from the primary is that Brokaw knew there was a problem and spoke out against the insanity. He was one of the good ones.

    Parent
    I do remember Brokaw was good. (none / 0) (#11)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:57:03 PM EST
    And he clearly knows who on the network isn't.  How do you go on thinking you're Murrow if Brokaw thinks you suck?

    This wasn't part of the convention was it?  I am beginning to not feel so good about this convention.  We may be seeing a lot of this:

    At that point, PBS's Judy Woodruff, who was moderating the moderators event, said: "Why don't we let Governor Rendell sit down."

    That was met with applause from the crowd of big-time media figures, which included Arianna Huffington, Gwen Ifill, Al Hunt, and Chuck Todd.



    Parent
    Well, Rendell is Governor of an important state, (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:59:16 PM EST
    and none of the rest of them are. Who ever elected Al Hunt to anything? No one.

    Parent
    Or Arianna Huffinton and.... (none / 0) (#30)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:11:24 PM EST
    ..she actually ran.

    Parent
    Heck (none / 0) (#31)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:12:18 PM EST
    he may just've been supporting Judy.

    Parent
    Oh Bejebus (5.00 / 5) (#62)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:32:28 PM EST
    He really did, didn't he.

    He will be "Worst Person In the World" come Monday.

    I love Ed Rendell

    Parent

    Thanks for the link (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Jjc2008 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:48:59 PM EST
    I am sure Rendall was harrassed by the media jerks.  It has been so obvious. You would have to be a total blind hero worshipper not to have seen it.  I have this theory.  These guys have a lot of guilt they are trying to rid themselves of.  Matthews and Russert rode the Lewinsky scandal to jobs worth millions.  They held nothing back....and they got so  INTO it, were so unfair, were so ruthless in their personal attacks, when the truth came out that there was not scandal in Whitewater and that the right wing used the media to trash the Clintons personally, and they did it for them, and when they saw that instead of hating the Clintons, the majority of the the electorate were disgusted with the media, with the republicans's sanctimonious attempt at impeachment, they were shocked.

    But they could not let go.  They used the Clintons against Gore (if I had a nickel for every time Matthews talked about Gore dealing with Clinton't "bathtub ring" I'd be rich.  
    They could not get past it and their own biases hurt Gore, hurt Kerry.

    Matthews became a W worshipper.  His "anti war" stance was phony.  How else does one explain his drooling over W's "sunny nobility" under the Mission Accomplished Banner.
    They were silent about the Swiftboaters.

    But somewhere after 2004, the reality hit them.  THEY had blood on their hands....they had helped in undoing democracy.  NOW they needed a new meme.
    Obama and Clinton were running,

    But their guilt over what they did turned back into covering their a**es by hating Hillary.  And they were relentless.

    And it was transferred to the blogs.  The same blogs that were trashing Matthews and MSNBC for their love of Bush, were suddenly defending Matthews every time he drooled over Obama.  

    Sad...but true.  Brokaw knows it's true and I think he resents what Matthews and Olberman did.  But at the same time, he doesn't do much about it.
    It's sad....really sad that our media is the story.

    Parent

    Sounds like it will be a grand old time (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by blogtopus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:44:59 PM EST
    Do you sense any separations yet between Hil supporters and Obama supporters? Do you sense that certain bars / locations are unspokenly 'off-limits' to certain supporters?

    I don't think we're up to politics yet (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:46:35 PM EST
    so far, it's a huge people gathering -- and event. The politics will start tomorrow.

    Parent
    I imagine (none / 0) (#13)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:58:16 PM EST
    the socializing might be politicized.  Which does sound like a disaster waiting to happen...

    Parent
    I don't think so (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:01:36 PM EST
    This is a Democratic party convention. Those here will come together behind the nominees. The rest is history. What might have been, what might be in the future, is just not going to separate people from having a good time. For those participating in the convention activities, it's a done deal and time to look towards November.

    Parent
    And if the party doesn't get it right this year, (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:12:56 PM EST
    we can do it again in 4 years.   </snark>

    Dang!  I wish I was there with a "Replace Nancy" sign.  (Would they let me have one in the dog pound section?)  

    Parent

    I hope you are right. (none / 0) (#28)
    by lilburro on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:11:01 PM EST
    But to this day, some supporters of Clinton and Obama find that having a good time involves lording over each other.  

    Parent
    I like that world (none / 0) (#129)
    by blogtopus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:27:09 PM EST
    I hope that Denver can maintain / sustain that mutual respect, J. The last thing we need is some kind of 'rioting in the streets' spectacle to provide material for the next few weeks of advertising from McCain.

    While it comes from both camps, I think the onus will be on the Obama campaign to reign in its more feverish support, as has been seen in the past. We'll see.

    Thanks for the update; looking forward to more 'Woman on the Street' info. That came out wrong, but you know what I mean. :-)

    Parent

    Clinton To Release All Delegates On Wed (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:50:26 PM EST
    This has been confirmed and reported by CNN.

    I'm not sure how I feel about this, and how this is going to impact (if any) on the roll-call.

    I'm guessing the new McCain ad, featuring Hillary, must have pushed her to decided to do that.

    I cannot imagine that she didn't hear from Obama's campaign to consider the move too, to avoid any rift and drama at the convention at all cost.

    Lip synching democracy (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:55:20 PM EST
    Hey it's the DNC's funeral if they don't allow a legit vote and insist on continuing the kabuki theater.

    Barack Obama is "likable enough" however as long as voting for him seems to be the equivaqlent of voting banana republic he isn't going to have my vote. The DNC is running out of chances to correct the perception that they are for vote manipulating.

    Parent

    Good Points (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:00:27 PM EST
    Which also makes me believe that the "roll-call" is lip-service to Hillary and portraying a sense of unity -- a band-aid over the wound, if you will.

    But whatever it is, I can't think what sort of position Hillary must be in to show that she's doing all she can to support Obama, and then read and hear that she's doing half-heartedly. She just cannot get a break, and to an extent, the Obama campaign isn't even helping her.

    Parent

    Another Rolling Stones song comes to (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:04:23 PM EST
    mind....

    Somebody tell the DNC and obama followers that Hillary:

    Will never be their beast of burden
    Her back is broad, but its a hurtin'

    Back off and give her some space.  She has been more than accommodating to the DNC, obama and the others who think she must do all the heavy lifting...just saying

    Parent

    They need to cancel the roll call if she's (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:05:04 PM EST
    telling her delegates to support Obama. If she doesn't get the delegate votes she earned, why have it at all? That will just make it look like her delegates changed their minds on their own.

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:11:23 PM EST
    if the votes aren't exactly the same as pledged everyone is going to know that the DNC was working behind the scenes to manipulate things. I imagine everyone will also be looking at FL and MI delegates with a microscope.

    Parent
    Maybe Obama should release his too since we (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:17:23 PM EST
    know it is a done deal. I hope there is no roll call if this is true. It probably is since they won't even let them have noise makers.

    I guess this will be how it is from now on (until an important male gets dissed this way...then it will be back to the rules).

    Parent

    I saw a really interesting interview and call-in (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:35:29 PM EST
    question event with Howard Dean this afternoon on C-Span.

    The look of horror and embarrassment on his face for some of the caller's questions and attitudes toward the DNC was worth every second of watching.

    He claimed that in hindsight, he probably would have stood up against some of the sexism from the media that happened.

    I also saw that a Rules Committee meeting took place on camera, but I only caught the last few minutes. Sorry I missed that.

    C-Span is where the real action is going to be, I think. I'd rather see some of these policy meetings than footage of the little protests and analysis of how horrible the Clinton supporters are behaving.


    Parent

    Man I wish I had seen that... (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Jjc2008 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:53:25 PM EST
    I want to see Howard Dean squirm.

    I still resent that two years ago I defended this man to democratic friends......I can't believe how duped I was by him and his blog friend Markos.....
    what users..

    Parent

    What's going on now C-Span is GREAT (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:05:39 PM EST
    Question: How can the winner of a state caucus come out with fewer delegates?!

    Entire program being rebroadcast later tonight.

    Parent

    We must be in different time zones... (none / 0) (#117)
    by Jjc2008 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:10:01 PM EST
    my C-span is some guy talking about a book.
    And C-span2 doesn't come in for me. I have to call COmcast.

    Parent
    PST - Q&A (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:19:16 PM EST
    took over, and the programming that is so interesting with the audience questions is going to be rebroadcast again later.

    I'll be watching for it to rerun. The audience questions are really uncomfortable for the Dems. And, what a pile of spin given for answers.

    Parent

    I think it's still up (none / 0) (#168)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 09:02:11 PM EST
    on their website. I watched it this afternoon, after the fact.

    Parent
    I think that her releasing them (none / 0) (#44)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:19:37 PM EST
    is not quite what you're thinking?  There are different state rules as to what pledged delegates have to do on first ballots, right?  So can she release them from their state rules?  Maybe.

    Or maybe this frees some in some states on the first ballot, but it especially frees all from feeling guilty.  And, of course, it signals that she knows there won't be enough to make an issue and floor fight from it to go to a second ballot, etc.

    Parent

    I'm not sure. I thought the candidate could (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:29:39 PM EST
    always release them but just not make them vote for who they say. I guess we need to check. I also am interested to know if they normally take a pre-count earlier in the day of the vote.

    Parent
    Mondale is right now on C-Span (none / 0) (#73)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:57 PM EST
    trying to explain to an audience what the pledged and super delegates are and what they are supposed to do.


    Parent
    CNN doesn't have a clue (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:57:28 PM EST
    Did you read the article? It is othing new. She is simply going to have a private event with her delegates on Wednesday afternoon and 'release' them to vote the way they want to at the vote on Wednesday night.

    Hardly the way CNN makes it cound. She will encourage but that's all.

    Hillary Clinton will meet with her primary delegates Wednesday - and will likely release them to Barack Obama at the event, CNN confirms.

    Two Democratic sources say the Clinton reception will take place at 1:15 p.m. MT, before that evening's roll call vote.

    "It's an opportunity for Senator Clinton to see her delegates -- many for the first time since the primaries ended, thank them for their hard work and support, and most importantly to encourage them to support and work for Senator Obama as strongly as she has in order to elect him in November," said Clinton spokesman Philippe Reines.

    The timing of Clinton's official call had been one of the final unresolved questions surrounding the Democratic convention, following the announcement earlier this month that the New York senator's name would be placed in nomination, and the Sunday morning decision of the Credentials Committee to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations at full voting strength.

    Clinton had long pressed for both states to have their full voting privileges restored; a few weeks ago, at a fundraiser, she seemed to suggest that placing her name in nomination at the convention in Denver might provide a "catharsis" for some of her supporters.

    Parent

    Make sure you notice this particular wording (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:58:53 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton will meet with her primary delegates Wednesday - and will likely release them to Barack Obama at the event, CNN confirms.

    So, what? CNN confirms that she is likely to possibly do something they might think they know what that may be?

    Parent

    Can You Share The Link (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:07:15 PM EST
    to the story?

    I was just reporting what was reported in TV by the anchor, Rick Sanchez. Of course, he didn't go into the details and I didn't read the article that really explained it.

    Well, now, I shouldn't be surprised since CNN has always had a history of misrepresentation and holding back information.

    Whatever it is, I really hope they conduct a clean roll-call vote, without any manipulation and wrist-twisting.

    I trust that anything and everything will surface quickly -- courtesy of the delegates present -- so it would behoove the DNC to refrain from trying to pull a fast one.

    Parent

    Rick Sanchez?? He is the one that let (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:14:48 PM EST
    himself tasered so he could report on how it feels and you react...doh!!

    Parent
    LINK (none / 0) (#26)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:08:35 PM EST
    Thank You (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:15:59 PM EST
    I hope someone will capture some video of the meeting with Hillary on Wednesday (like that recent meeting in California).

    Aah, and I see the CNN reporter who "broke" this news is Jessica Yellin. She has always come across to me as one with an agenda against Hillary and Bill.

    She was the one who twisted Bill's words on a rope-line during the Primaries about his comments in South Carolina, perpetuating the smear against him as a racist. Yellin was also a member of the Clinton traveling press pool, and often reported on missteps between rally stops. She really came across to me as a gossip monger. So this explains everything.

    Parent

    On TV, they aren't saying maybe but for sure. (none / 0) (#33)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:13:05 PM EST
    I guess we'll see if they have to correct themselves again. I don't doubt that Rick Sanchez is capable of getting overly excited and not understanding what is going on.

    Parent
    That's an understatement re: Sanchez ;) (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:14:36 PM EST
    Rick Sanchez (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:21:16 PM EST
    Yeah, he's the one who got himself tasered, Psst.

    He's a really horrible and annoying anchor. He gets really animated and loud, and has this sense of humor that's pretty off-putting. He also loves scandal, and editorializes too much for his own good. Good thing he's been relegated to the weekend-evening shows.

    Parent

    Actually, I think I liked Sanchez better (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:28:10 PM EST
    when he was on MSNBC....

    Parent
    When she releases them, they are free (5.00 / 0) (#34)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:13:05 PM EST
    to vote how they want, right? She can implore they vote for Obama, but not force. If she looks like she's suppressing their voice, she'll lose some support/power from the people. I don't think she can "give" or "turnover" her delegates to Obama, regardless of what the RBC thinks.

    Parent
    Exactly...what worries me more (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:18:04 PM EST
    are the stories coming our of Denver as told to Riverdaughter.

    Delegates are being told that they have to have their vote to the chair of their state delegations, some as early as 10am on Wednesday, in writing. The tabulating of votes will be done before the vote.

    Supposedly it is because the Obama campaign and the DNC want to avoid Hillary being ahead in delegates at any point. Not sure how they are going to do that. What if delegates change their mind? Are they going to follow them around and say, "But you promised!"

    Parent

    I saw that (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:45:46 PM EST
    anyone getting the word out to reporters?

    They're so stupid if they really are trying to pull a sham. A floor fight would be much better than what could happen if they really tick people off. A sham will flush unity right down the toilet. Oh my, poor Nancy would be so upset, lol!~

    Parent

    I sure hope they have smelling salts (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:51:03 PM EST
    Nancy is sure to have the vapors if we do that messy democracy stuff.

    Parent
    {dusts off the fainting couch} (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:59:57 PM EST
    maybe she'll hand out Miss Manners pamphlets at the door  ;)

    Parent
    LMAO (5.00 / 3) (#112)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:05:04 PM EST
    I wonder if Nancy and Howard realize that at least 13 states having legally binding voting that requires those delegatesto vote a certain way on the first ballot no matter what Hilary says?

    Parent
    Hey with a little luck (5.00 / 0) (#119)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:15:13 PM EST
    They'll spend all their time concentrating on those elusive seven states that don't exist anywhere other than Obama world.

    Parent
    CBS interviewed her today (none / 0) (#124)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:22:19 PM EST
    did RD say when her interview was airing on CBS?

    There's at least one documentary film team at this gathering, right?

    Parent

    I Really Wish I Was In Denver Too (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:55:33 PM EST
    Needless to say, like everyone I'm sure, I'm more invested in the presidential campaign than any other campaign before.

    Being a media and policy professional (and self-professed wonk), reading my friends' Twitter messages about what they're doing in Denver right now and who they're meeting/seeing, makes me really wish I had signed up to go. But since I don't have a horse in this race, I declined and gave that chance to someone who'd really benefit from it.

    Oh well!

    It would have been nice to be there in-person, but I shall just live and experience it vicariously through them, Jeralyn's postings and all that I read and see in the media.

    Not me (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:49:20 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure I'd end up in the dog pound and my husband would end up having to bail me out. I don't suffer in silence well.

    There was a reason my nickname was "trouble" in the military.

    Parent

    Now that (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 05:59:30 PM EST
    the dust has settled about the Biden VP nomination what does everyone thin?

    I think that Obama has conceded the experience argument to McCain and said that qualifications do matter. He's also lost the "anti washington" argument with Biden. He's also lost the "hopey changey" argument. Now going ahead and tossing some of these arguments, hopey changey and experience, is probably a good thing.

    In the end, I think that the Biden was picked because of Obama's serious demographic problems. That being said, Biden will not be able to solve these problems. There is no pick that would solve his problems.

    Anyway, I see this as another Dukakis/Bentsen ticket. I just don't see how he wins in Nov with the map that BTD was talking about downthread.

    I think we're gonna lose (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:05:36 PM EST
    That said I'm not feeling overly emotionally invested. Obama's chiding of his party over regulation and his gushing over Reagan as transformative coupled with the racist, low information gambit and the rigging done by the DNC leave me cold. I've never felt less of a desire to pull the lever.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:26:43 PM EST
    I think we are too. Even though this is supposed to be a "dem year" Obama's baggage is just going to be too much to overcome. It's already dragging him down and probably nothing will change that.

    Parent
    We might have been able to overcome (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:31:50 PM EST
    just Obama baggage but with the DNC bungling the primary big time I just don't see the Democratic party pulling it off. The rift is huge and short of McCain doing something horrible like declaring if he is President we'll go to war with blankity blank and everyone over eighteen will be conscripted I don't see folks voting for the Obama persona over the McCain persona.

    We lose the cult of personality game and I wish the Dem party would get wise and quit playing it.

    Parent

    Exactly. (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:35:27 PM EST
    Every time we don't campaign on issues and campaign on personalities, we lose. The only way voters will ignore all the personality baggage is when you appeal to them based on issues. I'm willing to bet that lots of voters out there don't care about Obama's "historic candidacy". The majority of times, the "first" loses and it takes a long time before that can be changed.

    Parent
    The blank slate they chose (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:43:20 PM EST
    is gonna backfire. Our side always appears to be masters of checkers when what we are supposed to be playing is chess. Doh.

    Parent
    I'm wondering after hearing Biden yesterday (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:49:31 PM EST
    are they just going to tie all issues to McCain equals Bush, McCain is rich (OH NOES!) or is Obama actually going to have to take a stand and be specific (lol!~)?

    Parent
    HIllary ran on issues. (none / 0) (#167)
    by weltec2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:52:49 PM EST
    Kerry and Gore ran on issues. Obama, Bush, and Reagan ran on personality and they won. I have very little faith that we as Americans (and I don't mean you and I and other news and issues junkies) care anything at all about issues.

    Parent
    If Obama would let Biden be President, (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:07:24 PM EST
    I'm sure a lot more of us would vote for the team.  Biden has a lot of experience.  

    Parent
    I am not sure about that Grace. While (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:16:58 PM EST
    running for president, he was barely a blip on the radar, except when he was saying how inexperienced obama is and isn't ready to be president.  He got only a teensy percentage of votes.

    Parent
    Biden was running against Hillary (none / 0) (#50)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:22:30 PM EST
    and the rockstar though.  Running against McCain would be a different story.  

    Responding to the post below:  Cheney had had something like four heart bypass surgeries and wasn't very likeable.  Biden appears to be healthy and he's more likeable.  Even FOX news says that Biden is truly a nice person (and that's something, coming from FOX).  

    Parent

    Bottomline, he would never have been a (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:32:15 PM EST
    presidential nominee.  He has never done well in any of his runs dating back to 1988.  IMO a race between Biden and McCain would be similiar to obama vs. McCain.

    Parent
    Responding to chel2551 -- (none / 0) (#51)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:24:43 PM EST
    Whoops!  I hate it when the posts move around.

    Parent
    Move around? (none / 0) (#84)
    by chel2551 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:44:24 PM EST
    Try deleted.

    Parent
    chel 10 comments per day (none / 0) (#111)
    by waldenpond on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:03:30 PM EST
    For the third time.... new commenters are limited to 10 comments per day.

    Parent
    You and I need to talk. (none / 0) (#127)
    by chel2551 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:25:48 PM EST
    Excuse me? (none / 0) (#130)
    by waldenpond on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:30:26 PM EST
    I used to (none / 0) (#139)
    by chel2551 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:40:44 PM EST
    frequent a site where only comments that could get the owner in trouble were deleted.

    Parent
    Biden doesn't make me any more excited... (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:15:21 PM EST
    ...for the ticket but he doesn't make me less excited either. I guess thats something.

    Parent
    Excited. (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:59:53 PM EST
    I would be more excited if Obama had chosen Donald Duck as his running mate.

    He is extremely popular.

    He would lend expertise in foreign affairs as he is widely travelled and has extensive business interests in Paris, Toyko and Hong Kong.

    His marriage has been exemplary. He and his wife Daisy have been together for over 6 decades. He has also been a surrogate father to his three nephews, Huey, Dewey and Louis.

    Parent

    I Nominate This for (5.00 / 0) (#114)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:06:38 PM EST
    Post of The Year! :)

    Parent
    And, the 3 little ones are Daisy's nephews, but, (none / 0) (#157)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:12:45 PM EST
    hey, it is a really great comment :)

    Parent
    Hmm. (none / 0) (#171)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:43:52 AM EST
    I would be wary of Donald's unsavory familial ties--his uncle is the greedy plutocrat Scrooge McDuck. Think Cheney with feathers.

    Parent
    I agree with you that it is in some respects very (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by dk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:51 PM EST
    reminiscent of Dukakis/Bentsen (well, except that Dukakis had many years of executive experience, stood strongly for Democratic values, didn't gay-bait to win elections, didn't condone/perpetuate sexism, and didn't try to tear down the separation between (Christian) church and state).

    As for Biden, I think that Melissa's posts at Shakesville (particularly here) are absolute must reads for anyone who considers themselves a liberal and/or feminist and wants to know more about what Biden stands for.


    Parent

    True. (5.00 / 3) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:39:13 PM EST
    In lots of ways, comparing Dukakis to Obama is an insult to Dukakis. Dukakis did have executive experience.

    Parent
    I think the only people who may (5.00 / 0) (#88)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:47:55 PM EST
    feel anything has changed with Biden on the ticket are the ones who really, really hoped it would be him, and those who really, really hoped it would have been Hillary.

    I'm in neither group.


    Parent

    Virginia is the new Florida (none / 0) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:02:13 PM EST
    Otherwise, the map is the same.

    Obama has a decent shot at CO--maybe.

    Parent

    Thanks, as ever. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:25:28 PM EST
    This is exactly what I was trying to figure out the other day, playing with the maps from 2004 and 2000 as well as this one.  I kept getting interrupted, grrrrr.  I think your point here is where I was headed . . . and finally gave up.

    I'm trying to figure out which state really may be the new Florida, or Ohio, in the worst ways.  I.e., what the Repubs are seeing when they look at the same map to make decisions as to which state will get the full Rovian treatment.

    Hmm, next step is to see whether Virginia has switched to the problematic machines. . . .

    Parent

    Dems control the election machinery in VA (none / 0) (#63)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:32:50 PM EST
    and OH this year. Not so sure about CO.

    Parent
    Won't (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:37:42 PM EST
    help when your candidate has severe demographic problems that are massively evident in the already established voting patterns.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#94)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:50:00 PM EST
    But in Virginia, at least, the demographic problems do not appear fatal. The public polling shows Obama on the precipice of winning.

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:53:19 PM EST
    The polls I have read give the edge to McCain.

    Parent
    They're very close (none / 0) (#106)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:56:56 PM EST
    with both candidates in the upper forties. I think GOTV will matter in VA, and it should be in Obama's favor there.

    Parent
    Votes for Webb/Allen (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:01:01 PM EST
    were separated by less than 3000 and you had far more unity in the base to get him there. I wouldn't be holding my breath on a win here.

    Parent
    I worked on the Webb campaign, (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:09:21 PM EST
    on the front office reception desk and phones.  I was there during the primary campaign and all the way to the end.   There were two things that propelled Webb into the win -- one was obviously George Allen's Macaca moment, but the other was Webb's very close association with southwest Virginia -- the most conservative area of the state, where he comes from.  He spent  a LOT of time campaigning there, and used his family connections to great advantage.   Without the votes from downstate, he would not have won.  And now, let's think about Senator Obama's refusal to campaign in places like Kentucky and WVA -- areas quite similar in many ways to southwestern Virginia.  Think he can pull it out?

    It's not so difficult these days for a Dem to take NoVa and the Hampton Roads/Norfolk area -- lots of progressives in those areas, but in downstate in Roanoke it's way different.  I think they are really really optimistic to be counting on Va in the Dem column.  But, hey, whadda I know?

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#166)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:46:58 PM EST
    I'm in SW Virginia right next door to Roanoke. I helped the Webb campaign(worked a booth, talked to neighbors, canvassed, made calls). I won't be doing the same for the Obama campaign(and he can thank the DNC for that). That said, Obama has already had some speaking engagements in Bristol which is in the SW tip so they haven't completely blown the area off. We'll see, I think his position on guns is gonna bite him in the butt and the fact that McCain is ex military. Then again, what do I know, I'm just one of them low info voters. LOL

    Parent
    What you describe is the difference (none / 0) (#172)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:47:23 AM EST
    between the electoral/demographic map of the United States of American and that of Fantasyland.

    Parent
    If you mean electronic voting (none / 0) (#70)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:34 PM EST
    why yes we have those machines. That said, if Obama loses here it won't be because of the machines. Those same machines gave us Kaine and Webb. It'll be because Obama failed to make his case better than the GOP. This state is as swing as you can get.

    Parent
    The problematic machines are (none / 0) (#71)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:50 PM EST
    definitely here, at least in my Northern Virginia county.  

    Parent
    17 different machines are used. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:52:43 PM EST
    About half are touch-screen and half are optical scan. SBoE lists them by locality.

    Parent
    i think it's a hilarious turn of events (none / 0) (#45)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:19:39 PM EST
    for me there is an abundance of humor here given the angry vile personal attacks i've seen on biden over the years from people who then turned around and then became obama's most passionate supporters.  and as everyone knows, i speak out against angry vile personal attacks.

    I approve of it, and I think it's a great pick because it does something that I think is worthwile.

    I've been having a lot of fun with it on obama blogs.

    if anyone cares, go to dailykos, go to their search engine and punch in "biden" from 3 or 4 years ago.

    they've clearly done some "growing up" since then.

    LOL.

    Parent

    I remember this (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by ccpup on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:13:50 PM EST
    being a first time event for you, so get out there and soak up as much as you can!

    Enjoy yourself.

    I won't repost the deleted video link, but... (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:20:26 PM EST
    Is it ok to reference the YouTube video: Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Back to Back Gaffes.

    There was a lot of buzz today about Obama's "next President" remark in reference to Biden, and Biden mistakenly saying"Barack Amer[ica]". I hadn't watched the speeches in full, so it was useful to see the YouTube clip.

    If this is still TMI, I'm ok with this comment being deleted also.

    If it's an ad (none / 0) (#161)
    by waldenpond on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:22:22 PM EST
    I would think it's ok to evaluate attack ads and what demographics the campaigns are targeting or weaknessess the are going after.

    Just no gratuitous smear (or conspiracy) ads put together by citizen wackos on other side of the aisle.

    Parent

    Thanks...the video is just short clips (none / 0) (#174)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 11:47:15 PM EST
    from the speeches (of Obama and Biden) done without any editorial comment (aside from the video's title).

    Parent
    Prayers and Postive vibes (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by samtaylor2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:22:23 PM EST
    I am one to believe in prayer, positive thoughts, etc(from any group- I like to cover my bases in case I am wrong :).  But I am asking everyone who I even have a slight bit of contact with for some positive vibes at least for this next Friday the 29th as I am taking my Step 1 boards (the big test in betwen your 2nd and 3rd year of medical school- it sorta defines what type of medicine you can practice, etc).  Thanks Sam


    Good luck Sam (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:26:37 PM EST
    Do you have a specialty in mind? I try to keep my prayers and good vibes specific :)

    Parent
    Good luck. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:30:01 PM EST
    I understand they are pretty hard.

    Parent
    Okay Sam.... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:30:42 PM EST
    ...I'll light a candle for you. Its what my mom used to do, but she used to light her candles in a little altar that she had with various saints. I think that though she was Catholic, there was a touch of santeria in it. But I don't have any saint so I will light my candle ont he dining room table next to my vintage cornucopia planter....a horn of plenty so that you will do plenty good.

    Parent
    I wish you (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:34:16 PM EST
    the required faith in yourself to do well.

    Personally, I know you will....

    Parent

    Study hard and try not to watch too much (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:08 PM EST
    of the convention! Best of luck to you Sam.

    Parent
    Spend less time on (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by chel2551 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:36:25 PM EST
    the internet and more time studying.

    Good luck, sam.

    Parent

    Holding you in the light, (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:38:19 PM EST
    Sam, as the Quakers say!  Come back and report to us, won't you?

    Parent
    Sending good vibes your way!! (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:50:35 PM EST
    I especially wish you a calm experience during the test (are you a nervous tester?)!!

    Parent
    Serving up woofs n' purrrs on the 29th ;) (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:54:47 PM EST
    a lil' unconditional love never hurts!

    Parent
    Do well. (none / 0) (#120)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:17:09 PM EST
    I'm always awed by anyone that takes on the long journey to the MD.

    Parent
    Since this is an open thread, may (5.00 / 7) (#65)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:35:05 PM EST
    I report on my conversation of a few minutes ago with BC, a volunteer from the Obama HQ in my suburb in Virginia?

    "Hi.  Can I speak to Camellia?          "This is she."         Hi, Camellia.  This is BC from Obama HQ.  Do you have a minute?"

    "Oh, yes, I certainly do.  In fact, I have a couple of minutes to tell you that as a bitter old woman, I will never vote for Senator Obama until he begins to rein in his supporters and tell them to behave like reasonable adults, and until he begins to reach out to Hillary voters and attempt to include them in his campaign.   I do not intend to vote for Senator McCain, but neither do I intend to vote for Obama.  If he continues to ignore us, I plan to either write-in Senator Clinton's name or leave the presidential slot blank.    And now, my couple of minutes are up, so  thank you for your time."      Click.

    Dang.  I wish he would call again.  The satisfying part of this is that I am quite well-known in the local Dem circles, and I do hope that little BC passes on my comments.

    The Roanoke Times (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:41:08 PM EST
    had quite the editorial. Evidently there is more than one or two "bitter knitters" in our state.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:41:43 PM EST
    Twice the campaign has called me. Once they called for money. I told them I wasn't donating to Obama and hung up the phone. The second time is was my opinion about certain issues.

    Parent
    Camellia....I am giving you a 10 rating!! (5.00 / 5) (#81)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:43:12 PM EST
    Not too long ago I did the same thing....felt good, but it is sad that one has to go to these lengths to get a point across.

    Parent
    Thanks!!! (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:48:57 PM EST
    I am kind of in awe of you all -- you all are so much more knowledgeable and articulate than I am, so I am really chuffed at this!

    Parent
    lol Camellia....as for more knowledgeable (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:51:29 PM EST
    and articulate....some are and some are just better b.s.ers :).  My articulation gets me in trouble on here from time to time...Glad to have you here though!

    Parent
    Well done Camellia (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:56:25 PM EST
    You tell 'em! :)

    This is what everyone should tell these Obamans.

    I'm still waiting for someone to call me, but I suppose since letting the DNC know they aren't getting a dime from me (I sent back a ripped-up contribution card, with a message of my discontent with the DNC and my intention to become an Independent) they must have removed my name from all calling lists.

    Parent

    I do the question approach. (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:23:31 PM EST
    It'd go something like this:

    Obama?  Well, good!  I've been wanting to ask someone a few questions about his campaign.

    I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

    Could you tell me why Obama essentially ignored Hillary's voters and never spoke out against misogyny and sexism during the primary (yet he often refers to his wife, daughters and grandmother)?

    I like to make'em suffer a bit.

    Parent

    I never get called for anything (none / 0) (#115)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:06:47 PM EST
    probably because my real name is similar to a couple of Republican presidents.  

    I have gotten calls from radio stations asking me if I would debate people with similar "matching candidate" names -- but once I explain I'm a Democrat, they just laugh.  

    I used to get calls from people who thought they were talking to the White House (now those are informative calls).    

    I once tried to volunteer for the Kerry campaign but they never called me.  Probably thought it was a joke just by the name I wrote down (which was my name).  

    Parent

    The Kerry campaign was (none / 0) (#159)
    by camellia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:14:27 PM EST
    terminally disorganized, at least here in NoVa!  I called to volunteer, went down to the local HQ, talked to a friend who was working there, called again, filled out their forms, etc., and was eventually called back to ask me to hand out literature at the local Metro station.  I said OK, and they promised that the literature would be delivered to my house.  UhHuh.  Didn't happen.  When I called to find out, no-one knew anything about it.  

    Parent
    When I did some telemarketing.... (none / 0) (#173)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:03:54 PM EST
    calls like yours were the best...they kept me laughing through the monotonous bore of a telemarketing shift.

    Parent
    I wish (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by lentinel on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:39:00 PM EST
    I wish progressives would listen to Jazz.
    Identifying with folk music, rap and rock has gotten us nowhere.
    The Jazz of greats such as Charlie Parker and Lennie Tristano is revolutionary in spirit. It is the music of the individual. It is pure.
    It does not have one eye on the cash register.

    obama said (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:41:12 PM EST
    he'd be a better president cause clinton was attacked too much.  and so she was polarized and wouldn't be able to unite the country the way he could.

    people underestimate how this logic seeps into a lot of discussion that's even considered advocacy against sexism.

    is it a question of people not even knowing when they're being sexist, i don't know, but I do know Clinton was attacked because she was a woman, a  first lady who included herself and was included on policy decisions in the white house.

    so to make these kinds of decisions about electability and who one supports based on this media treatment gets, of course, tricky.

    I think Obama was basically saying, whether he likes it or not:  "all you have to do is attack someone enough, they'll be polarized, and then they'll never be president cause then they can't unite the country."  and so i still spend a lot of time thinking Obama should be attacked the same way so then he'll be polarized and won't be able to unite the country.

    most women i know relate to what I'm saying and how it impacts some decisions in the workplace.

    this kind of statement:  "yes.  you were right and we still support you in that situation you had with the abusive and sexist co-worker we fired, but now that's all anyone in the company can remember about you, and we need someone in management who will inspire people to look forward, not backward."

    ultimately, i have no use for this kind of advocacy on the issue.


    Is it just me, or does there seem to be (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:47:26 PM EST
    NOT that much excitement about Biden as VP...there was all that hype and build-up leading up to the announcement and now we are in deflated balloon territory.

    Frankly, I think the reason is that (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by dk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:50:41 PM EST
    aside from the media, political junkies, and the residents of Delaware, no one really knows Biden.  And, since it was the "safe" choice, there is no really interesting story to tell.

    I really don't see the choice of Biden having any impact on this election.

    Parent

    I think it's a direct reflection of why he (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:56:25 PM EST
    has tried 3 times to get his own campaign started and barely got out of the gate.

    There's nothing to get excited about. In fact, today on some channel (I forget which one I stopped at while surfing) a female reporter criticized him for his light jog across the stage to get to the microphone yesterday! That's ALL she could come up with about him, I guess :)


    Parent

    I did specify "dull" (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:25:05 PM EST
    in my prediction of "dull, white, older man".
    ;-)

    Parent
    Media Bias (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:47:36 PM EST
    I'm watching a really spirited discussion on Lou Dobbs's weekend show about the media bias for Obama.

    Lou brought up the fact that TIME Magazine's got Obama's gigantic mug on its cover for the SEVENTH time this year -- while McCain's had two so far.

    He also called out the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, and to an extent, the Washington Times for its conservative slant.

    I hope that discussion surfaces online in video and/or transcript form. Really interesting.

    Jim....good for Lou. Meacham was on (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:53:26 PM EST
    MTP this morning and his nose was very brown :)

    Parent
    my thoughts on joe biden as obama's vp choice (5.00 / 4) (#89)
    by londonamerican on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:48:19 PM EST
    http://londonamerican01.blogspot.com/2008/08/stupid-party.html

    I wonder just how thrilled Obama's fans were, when at 3 o'clock on Saturday morning they got their text messages informing them that Obama had chosen Joe Biden - the 36-year Senate insider and fixer, militant Drug Warrior, foreign policy chicken-Hawk and gaffe-prone political attack dog -- as his running mate?

    What is wrong with the Democratic leadership?

    Anyone Heading Home From Denver (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by dissenter on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:53:13 PM EST
    Near I-25, be aware there are two serious tornadoes in Parker and Castle Pines. Another one might be forming in Aurora. Might want to head to the bar and wait it out.

    I accidentally posted about this (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:14:02 PM EST
    on the other thread and joked that it was the PUMA's arriving. ;-)

    But seriously, I hope everyone is safe.

    Parent

    They're Showing the Tornados (none / 0) (#107)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:57:41 PM EST
    on CNN right now.

    Really scary and compelling images.

    Parent

    Latest CNN Poll Released Tonight (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:09:37 PM EST
    66% of Hillary supporters will vote for Obama, down from 75% found by the same poll in June. 27% will vote for McCain, up from 16%. The poll was taken after Biden was named VP. More results of the poll will be announced within the hour, according to Blitzer.

    But, Donna B. says they aren't worried. (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:20:00 PM EST
    Now, they go back to her about why the (none / 0) (#128)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:26:47 PM EST
    latest poll has even more non-Obama support and she says they are waiting on Barack to speak to them about the issues Hillary cares about...health care, jobs, etc. At least she gets that part.

    Parent
    But instead (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:34:45 PM EST
    Obama goes on vacation and to Europe for the adulating crowds.

    I doubt he plans to speak on those topics.

    Parent

    Howard Dean actually brought that trip up (none / 0) (#146)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:50:10 PM EST
    today as a "hail to Obama" moment and how warmly he is received around the world. No mention of the bands, brats, and beer, of course.

    He claimed 200,000 Europeans all waving American flags!!  Really, he claimed everyone had a flag.


    Parent

    Issues? (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:34:54 PM EST
    No kidding.  I think we've been trying to tell them that for months now.  Obviously, they haven't been listening to us.  Call me Cassandra.

    Parent
    The Audacity of John King & (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:35:27 PM EST
    Anderson Cooper.

    They suggested that Hillary Clinton, herself, is not doing enough to stop Clinton supporters from voicing their displeasure of Obama's Veep choice.

    John King said that Hillary should tell Paul Begala and James Carville to stop talking about the displeasure, and suggested that because she's not made an effort, they'll be costing Obama a lot of votes.

    Are these two guys journalists? Have they forgotten their pledge to provide an objective and fair representation of what's going on? Geez.

    They just. won't. stop. knocking Hillary down.

    Parent

    Also, aren't Begala and Carville grown men? (5.00 / 4) (#137)
    by Maria Garcia on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:38:18 PM EST
    If King and Cooper don't like what they are saying maybe they should tell them to shut up themselves and not put it on Hillary. I cannot believe how ridiculous these people are.

    Parent
    I guess we'll see those two banned from CNN (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Teresa on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:38:30 PM EST
    again. Don't let anyone mention the reality of what is going on the real world. (Begala & Carville, not Anderson and John King.)

    Parent
    Exactly, Maria and Teresa (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:46:01 PM EST
    I suppose they just cannot have any dissenting opinions against The One on their network.

    Well, coming back to what one of the panelists said on the Lou Dobbs discussion I posted about earlier, viewers and voters are not stupid and blind.

    They will notice the unbalanced coverage and bias, and they will push back, and the one to suffer will ultimately be Obama. Not Hillary.

    CNN already purged out several Clinton supporters from their panelists line-up. They banned Carville and Begala during the Primary coverage nights, and now, the network and their anchors are trying to dictate what they can say. Ridiculous.

    Parent

    Yeah, right, Donna (none / 0) (#147)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:51:29 PM EST
    that's why they are doing what they are doing with the roll call vote.


    Parent
    Hmmm (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:31:32 PM EST
    welcome Hillary supporters back

    You're assuming Hillary supporters have a place to come back to.  Per Donna, there is a new Democratic Party being formed and the old school, Democrat-for-30-years types aren't welcome.  We've been replaced by a newer generation of voters.  They truly don't think they need us.

    Harry and Louise ads killed any chances that I want anything to do with Obama.  I never liked Obama, but I may have held my nose until he poisoned the healthcare well.  The Democrats don't do healthcare.  I'll hold out until I find a party that does.  Maybe the Democrats will come around when they lose again.  That's my hope.  At that point, I'll "welcome them back" (LOL).

    Um, Obama is the Presumptive. (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:32:03 PM EST
    And I am holding my tongue until his coron- er, nomination is official.

    After that, I will happily rip any "The Clintons..." argument up one side and down the other.  Why?  Because then they will have nothing at all to do with the presidential race.  It will be Obama&Biden versus McCain&TBA.  No more Clintons.  Just Obama, Obama and Obama.

    Hysterical!!! (5.00 / 8) (#136)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:37:13 PM EST
    Excerpt from that Dave Barry piece:

    "But in the end, the focus of this convention will be on Barack Obama, who on Thursday night will receive the nomination in long-overdue recognition of a distinguished career of seeking the nomination "


    Lolololol, (none / 0) (#153)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:05:35 PM EST
    I know Dave has unfortunate Libertarian tendencies, but damn he's funny. I'm always going to picture Hillary practicing her speech using air quotes now :D

    Parent
    Gotta love Dave! (none / 0) (#156)
    by Joan in VA on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:12:17 PM EST
    Thanks for the link-funny stuff as usual.

    Parent
    Lord have mercy. (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:47:09 PM EST
    I've been a Dem my whole life, and I've never seen anything like this.  

    Listen, you have to sell your guy.

    Stop with the harangues and the threats, and sell your guy.

    If you want to win this, let go of the primaries, and sell your guy.

    Please, please pass it on.  

    Hey, Dalton!!! (none / 0) (#83)
    by JavaCityPal on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 06:43:22 PM EST
    Looking forward to your insights in the Diary section.

    Are you going to be able to get into any of the meetings? I'm watching C-Span and they've had really interesting panel meetings going on almost all day...each one has an audience and they get to ask the panel questions about the process. Those are the places I'd be trying to get into.

    Have fun!!!


    Hillary releasing delegates (none / 0) (#141)
    by badu on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:43:12 PM EST
    CNN said a bit ago that Hillary will "release her delegates" before the roll call vote.  The also said that Obama lost 4 points in their last polling and half of that was due to more Clinton voters stating a preference for McCain.  When does that Unity thing start?

    Once again (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 07:57:42 PM EST
    if you read the actual story on CNN or MSNBC, they preface the Hillary delegate story with words like 'likely' and 'expected to'. Although forsure CNN confirmed that she is likely to perhaps maybe make a decision to probably to what is expected and release her delegates from an obligation to vote for her.

    However, those delegates can vote how they please. Hillary's name will be in nomination and in fact 13+ states have legally binding primaries where those delegates, by law, must vote for Hillary on the first ballot.

    Parent

    Its not binding if she (none / 0) (#151)
    by badu on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:00:32 PM EST
    releases her delegates to vote the way they want.

    Parent
    She can release them to vote the way they want (none / 0) (#164)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:36:37 PM EST
    but I am not sure that her doing do would erase their legal STATE responsibility. I am still reading up on that. The agreements are state run, not candidate or national party run.

    Parent
    Info (none / 0) (#165)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:39:02 PM EST
    Arizona, California, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Tennessee, Virginia

    From what I have been able to gleen, delegates pledged to Hillary from the above states are bound by state law to fulfill their promise to the voters back home.

    If anyone knows any further info on these state laws....

    Parent

    Now i see the source (none / 0) (#162)
    by badu on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 08:29:24 PM EST
    was an anonymous democratic official. Must be the Obama people trying to control things.  Brazile maybe??

    Parent
    Question about drug convictions. (none / 0) (#169)
    by halstoon on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 09:39:17 PM EST
    Suppose someone was caught selling 2 ounces of powder cocaine to DEA agents in NY state, and when the cops search that person's home they found another 6 ounces of cocaine, along with a small amount (<5k) of cash.

    That's an A-1 felony. What would a person be looking at as far as time served goes? Assume other minor arrests but no other felonies.

    Thanks for playing along in advance.

    Some of us (none / 0) (#170)
    by Nadai on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 09:55:13 PM EST
    aren't interested in coming back.  I guess we'll see in November just how many of us that is.