home

Sunday Night Open Thread

Your turn.

< CNN Poll: No Biden Bounce | Recap: Sunday Protest Events >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Is anyone else.... (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by p lukasiak on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:12:21 PM EST
    already bored with the convention, even though it hasn't started yet?

    Not bored. (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:14:10 PM EST
    Wondering what will be the most interesting part - the carefully choreographed spectacle or the street theatre?

    Parent
    Totally and completely bored (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by RalphB on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:32:28 PM EST
    I can't imagine any reason to watch one minute of the coronation, except for Hillary and Bill's speeches.  At this point, I'm starting to care less about them as well.


    Parent
    Yeh. I just made a PowerPoint slide (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:37:34 PM EST
    for class of the 1952 conventions, the first ones televised.  Great photo of chaos on the floor, the way it oughta be when people are wrassling and hassling out the future of this great country.

    I just captioned it with the notation that conventions actually were unscripted then, so they were far more fun to watch.  The first reality TV!

    And then I take a break and turn to TL, open this thread first, and find this comment first. :-)

    Parent

    Yup, very bored. (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by dk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:38:33 PM EST
    And, seeing as it is sandwiched between the Olympics and labor day weekend, nobody other than policial junkies are going to pay any attention to it.

    Parent
    Nah (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by daria g on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:39:34 PM EST
    I wanna see what those crazy flashing lights on the video screens look like on live television, not to mention how a giant stadium rally comes off.  I dunno, it seems like FARK and other sites could have heck of Photoshop contests with that podium.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Disgruntled as I am with the party, I really don't want to see a big embarrassment.

    Parent
    Downtown LA once featured (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:48:45 PM EST
    a tower with lights programmed to react to the music.  Long before everyone's computer screen incorporated the same feature.  Got sooo much flak in the LA Times and elsewhere that, although the tower still exists, the flashing lights are no longer in use.  

    Parent
    I want it to go well, too. (none / 0) (#86)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:04:06 PM EST
    Even though I'm mad at the party, I can't help hoping that they pull this off, figure out how to bring us together again. Most disaffected Dems that I know would love to see reason to believe that we're still welcome in the party, that our causes and issues won't be left behind in this new outreach to evangelicals and non-Democrats.

    We'll be watching Michelle Obama tomorrow night; I'm crossing my fingers she gives a great speech. I like her and hate when the press goes after her for being a strong woman. And of course, we've got a big family dinner planned for Hillary's speech on Tuesday night. Not sure if I can stand to watch President Clinton on Weds, he must be so angry.

    Parent

    Michelle.. (none / 0) (#128)
    by daria g on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:39:03 PM EST
    I really have not appreciated some things she's said during the primaries, such as having to "think about" whether she'd support Hillary were she the nominee.  But in other things I think she's been treated unfairly.  I am also getting to be annoyed, fast, by the proliferation of "Michelle Obama vs Cindy McCain" articles as if two women are going to have some kind of cat fight, as if there's got to be some kind of petty competition between them. Ridiculous.  Though I can't manage to not enjoy the ones about their clothes, Michelle's royal purple sheath dress and wide black belt were utterly fantastic, Bazaar magazine current issue has Tyra Banks in a faux Michelle Obama fashion shoot and it isn't half as well styled. Cindy McCain's total monochrome outfits are neat as well, it's remarkable for someone to wear head-to-toe canary yellow and actually make it look tasteful and classy.

    Parent
    You forgot (5.00 / 5) (#135)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:49:06 PM EST
    Her comments about how HRC couldn't run the country because she couldn't keep her husband from screwing.

    That one is my all-time favorite.

    I really want to see this mean-spirited woman fall on her fanny.

    Parent

    There's also (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:59:25 PM EST
    how she wants to rip Clinton's eyes out and the speech that I disliked about how "they" keep raising the bar on poor Barrack. I think that was the type of talk that Jesse Jackson meant when he said Blacks were being talked down to. Instead of lifting people up with the examples of the Obama's good fortune, there seemed to be an attempt to stir the pot by making people feel like victims.

    Parent
    Sometimes (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:57:25 PM EST
    she ticks me off, like that remark and when she said she wants to emulate Laura Bush as first lady. Laura Bush, seriously? But I can't help but be on her side after watching the media be so very condescending towards her. They always seems surprised at how smart she is, like she got her law degree from charm school.

    I loved the fashions in this year's campaigns, from Hillary's practical and colorful pantsuits to Michelle's retro Jackie-O look. And Elizabeth Edwards always looked like, "Yeah, I wear what I feel like; bite me." ♥

    Parent

    Laura Bush was the only good thing (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:07:13 AM EST
    in the whole Bush administration.  She was always charming and gracious.  

    I also like both Michelle's and Cindy's clothes.  They both dress really well.  Hillary also looked good this entire campaign season.  Can't really say anything bad about how any of the women looked.  (That must have bored fashion editors to death!)  

    Parent

    Really stressed - like a family breakup (5.00 / 0) (#44)
    by catfish on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:40:38 PM EST
    is culminating or something. I actually want the convention to go well. And I actually want to get it over with.

    If John McCain can provide some lightheartedness the following week, it will do him a lot of good.

    Parent

    You aren't anxiously awaiting (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:51:00 PM EST
    Joe Biden's speech?  

    Me neither.  

    The whole thing is a big yawn.  We're going to watch movies this week.  

    Parent

    The hype is reminiscent to the lead up (none / 0) (#57)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:46:11 PM EST
    of the vp announcement, and if this falls flatter, I wouldn't be surprised.  Actually the entire campaign has been boring since Hillary left the scene.

    An all out brawl would liven up the convention...
    you know it livens up ice hockey matches :)

    Parent

    The pink ladies march was disappointingly (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:49:45 PM EST
    blah.  

    Parent
    I guess I'll be watching by default (none / 0) (#100)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:13:56 PM EST
    because I always keep either FOX, CNN, or the Weather Channel going in the background.  

    Parent
    Me too (almost) (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:36:29 PM EST
    I use HGTV instead of CNN. I gave up on them the night of the Jefferson/Jackson Dinner. Their bias just became too much when they showed a couple minutes of Hillary's speech, interrupted to show a oft-repeated Larry King interview of Michael Moore attacking her. And as I predicted, they broke into that in time to show the full 35 minutes (uninterrupted) of Obama. BTW, Fox showed both in full. I hate to say it, but that night they lived up to their moniker of "fair and balanced".

    Parent
    go green, listen to the radio instead (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:56:32 PM EST
    as it takes a lot less juice. I've tried to do my part for planet earth by watching less TV. :-)

    Parent
    Not interested (none / 0) (#166)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:40:16 AM EST
    I will not watch any of it.  I will read about Hillary's speech.  Maybe watch a youtube of her speech.  After that I will wait for November to vote for the best candidate, McCain.

    Parent
    Fodder from the Politico (5.00 / 7) (#6)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:14:42 PM EST
    here:

    One flashpoint is the assigned speech topic for former president Bill Clinton, who is scheduled to speak Wednesday night, when the convention theme is "Securing America's Future." The night's speakers will argue that Obama would be a more effective commander in chief than his Republican rival, Sen. John McCain (Ariz.).

    The former president is disappointed, associates said, because he is eager to speak about the economy and more broadly about Democratic ideas -- emphasizing the contrast between the Bush years and his own record in the 1990s.

    This is an especially sore point for Bill Clinton, people close to him say, because among many grievances he has about the campaign Obama waged against his wife is a belief that the candidate poor-mouthed the political and policy successes of his two terms.

    [. . .]

    While Bill Clinton remains angry about how he and his wife were treated by both Obama backers and the news media -- and he is particularly resentful at what he sees as unfair allegations that he tried to exploit racial divisions for political advantage -- he has made the decision that he will put forward a positive face for Obama's benefit at Denver.

    It is harder to do that when the topic is foreign policy and national security, which lends itself to restrained, rather than boisterous, partisan rhetoric.

    "That puts him in a terrible bind, because you can't give a ringing endorsement when you're talking about foreign policy," a longtime Clinton adviser said. "Obviously, the hard thing to talk about with Obama is commander in chief, of all his many talents.

    "You don't rah-rah about commander in chief. You rah-rah about hope and change and a new party and all that. So no matter what he does, somebody will find fault with it."

    Great.


    What (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:23:34 PM EST
    a disaster. Who planned that? Brazille?

    Having Bill Clinton sell Democrats would have been a wonderful thing. Having him give a sober speech about how Obama can be commander in chief? What a waste of talent. Too bad they threw Wes Clark under the bus. He would have been the right person to make this case.

    Paging BTD, Paging BTD: The Obama campaign wants to lose or they are so utterly inept they should all be run back to Chicago never to be seen again.

    Parent

    Sure (5.00 / 14) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:28:32 PM EST
    But Obama does not want him talking about Democratic achievements of the past.

    Hell, FDR would assigned to talking about the environment or something.

    NEW! CHANGE!

    Let's face it, the Obama campaign is blowing this thing.

    Parent

    I have that sinking feeling myself (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:31:16 PM EST
    I have an image of Bill Clinton begging pleading with them to let him help them, and their cocky assurances that they know what they're doing.  

    Parent
    And if it turns out they don't know what (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Firewalker on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:36:35 PM EST
    they're doing, and lose the election, we all know who will get the blame.

    Parent
    CNN's "Best Political... (none / 0) (#60)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:47:05 PM EST
    Team", is preparing the way so both Clintons will be blamed anyway! I really don't know when she is going to draw the line and STOP taking this abuse.

    I trust and respect her judgement, but I wonder if she's pouring water in a wicker basket with these people!  

    Parent

    Complete Fools (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:55:03 PM EST
    If they don't listen to Bill Clinton.  No one could argue that he isn't the best politician of the last century or so.  The man KNOWS how to do this!  They are fools if they don't turn him lose to do what he does best.

    Parent
    bill won't be pleading with (none / 0) (#158)
    by hellothere on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:12:09 AM EST
    them to do anything. he see the picture very well indeed.

    Parent
    Now, that's funny in a sad way (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:40:38 PM EST
    "Hell, FDR would assigned to talking about the environment or something."

    And this crew in charge now would have ER give her recipe for chocolate-chip cookies. . . .

    (And she was, as she said herself, a terrible cook.)

    Parent

    Yeah, but Obama has the media (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47:34 AM EST
    and therefore he was the best candidate.  So you said.  He has the media, and that's an advantage.  He as the media, and he's more electable. Too late to complain about the campaign Obama is waging.  We saw it in the primaries.  Hillary may not have been able to win caucuses (we know why), but she had a great campaign.  There were mistakes, but that's unusual.  Hillary supporters know why she is not the nominee, and it has nothing to do with the fact that Obama has more pledged delegates from caucuses.

    Parent
    I'm seeing red again.... (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Aqua Blue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:29:49 PM EST
    to disrespect the Clinton's legacy is just stupid.     Obama's decision-making is certainly in queston.    Doesn't exacty inspire confidence in his leadership ability.

    The positive feelings from Biden as VP (as opposed to the others who were on the short list) have now been outweighed by this latest insult to Bill Clinton.

    Parent

    How bizarre (5.00 / 6) (#28)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:36:20 PM EST
    Is there anyone on the planet who would pack a stronger punch on economic issues than Bill Clinton?  Instead the economic topics are left to... Janet Napolitano?!

    Have Biden talk about foreign policy or something.  Sheesh.

    Parent

    Janet is my Governor and (none / 0) (#31)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:37:06 PM EST
    I like her, but she is a very BORING speaker.

    Parent
    Hey (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:41:12 PM EST
    she's in great company then. I seem to recall Sebelius phoning in her response to the state of the union. I hope the convention is stocked up on NoDoze.

    Parent
    Don't forget the Red Bull Chasers.... (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:48:58 PM EST
    Better hope (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:20:37 PM EST
    the McCain campaign isn't out in the parking lot handing out the Ambien....

    Could you imagine how funny that would be?  While these people speak, the TV cameras pan the audience at the appropriate applause points and you see the whole crowd, slumped in their seats, snoring loudly.  

    Parent

    Forget wine-track Democrats (none / 0) (#114)
    by Landulph on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:28:07 PM EST
    It would seem the New Democratic Party is populated by Ambien Democrats

    Parent
    Well, I'm officially worried (none / 0) (#52)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:43:04 PM EST
    I'm having a flashback to March and the Ohio/Texas primaries.

    Parent
    And you know what else? The Obots will look (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:55:03 PM EST
    at this and say that Bill is just being difficult, and that he should do what he's told.

    Parent
    Then they are idiots (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:56:20 PM EST
    They should be BEGGING the Clintons for advice!  

    Parent
    This is my favorite part (5.00 / 4) (#89)
    by americanincanada on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:06:25 PM EST
    As Halperin retells Politico's story he adds:

    Meanwhile: Some Dems close to Obama say they're equally irked at the Clintons for continuing to act like they hold leverage.

    Parent

    What leverage? 18 million voters? (none / 0) (#170)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:52:14 AM EST
    Obama can get those with a few registration drives.  He's the community organizer champ this side of the Pecos.

    Parent
    I noticed in the Politico (none / 0) (#186)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:57:53 AM EST
    article, that pretty much every source for this junk is from the Obama Camp. It seems to be more of the Primary tactic to make the Clintons look bad. I'm just so sick of it, I may never vote again if these games are the new roolz.

    Parent
    I hear you. I will make myself vote (none / 0) (#189)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:05:13 AM EST
    down-ticket but now I'm tossing mail even from my local Dems.  I had tossed all the national Dem mail and then the state Dem party mail but was still backing individuals at state and local levels.

    But now I can't even look at their mail with all the rah-rah blather.  They're enabling the party, so I won't enable them.

    Parent

    I don't know (none / 0) (#195)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:23:44 AM EST
    McCain is starting to look like a possibility for me. The Obama Camp continues to do their best to lose - even by pushing us completely off the cliff to the other side.

    Parent
    Lo and behold (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:38:18 AM EST
    A DKos Diary (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by themomcat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:46:19 AM EST
    using Politico as a source. WOW! have thins changed on that site. i can remember when you would be troll rated into oblivion for even linking to Politico. But if it's used to bash the Clintons I guess it's OK.

    Parent
    Yikes, yes, waring! links to DKos (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:02:54 AM EST
    I haven't been there in so long, it really is a shock to see how it has declined, as I looked down that list of diaries.

    What a fairy-tale world it is.

    Oh, oops, how racist of me to say so, just like Bill.  Btw, ever since that crap, I work the words fairy tale into conversation with Obama backers, every chance I get.

    Parent

    I really don't get it (5.00 / 5) (#87)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:04:15 PM EST
    Obviously these people have a much different opinion of Bill Clinton and his assets than I do.

    You know those commentors who blithely proclaim that the biggest reason not to have Hillary as VP is that Bill Clinton would be around the White House?  People like that apparently call the shots within Camp Obama.

    Keep your seatbelt buckled, I'd say.

    Parent

    Indeed (5.00 / 5) (#94)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:10:00 PM EST
    They think they're doing us a favor by getting rid of the Clintons. I need a barf bag.

    Parent
    D@mn! I wish I could remember what I was (none / 0) (#152)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:06:17 AM EST
    watching, or at least what day it was, but there was a discussion of the total outing of the Clintons from the party. I don't get it, frankly. When you look at all they do, and what their close friends in the party do . . . WTF?! It's really sad. I'm looking at folks in CA to support since I'm moving there. Clark supported one of them last round and is supporting another this round. And then there's Bill and Hillary and all they do to add to our numbers in DC. And then look at all the work they do for us, and not just Bill and Hil, but those that were/are strong supporters of her/both.

    I. Just. Don't. Get. It.

    I really wish the Green Party wasn't so Animal Rights. If they went more Animal Welfare, they'd prob do ok going forward. At least they stand for some things that resemble what I can relate to. The Working Families party also is something that I need to check out more. I noticed when I voted in the past, they had some of the major Dems here under their banner also. I voted under their party if it was a Dem I was going to vote for anyway. I think the 2 party system that's looking like one, needs to die at this point.  

    Parent

    There are lots of good Democrats in CA. (none / 0) (#163)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:23:39 AM EST
    Unfortunately, a lot of the high tech sector in the SF area supported Obama, as did a lot of the entertainment folks in LA -- but there are still a lot of entertainment people who didn't support Obama (like Rob Reiner and others).  Jay Leno never actually came out and supported anyone but he sure gave Clinton a lot of free publicity when she most needed it.  

    Maxine Waters was a Hillary supporter up until the very dying end.  Feinstein was too.  (I'm not sure about Boxer.)  Hillary got a lot of support from Latino and Asian leaders.        

    Anyway, lots of Dems though they are primarily near the coasts and the big cities.  It's probably going to seem a lot like NY in a lot of ways.  


    Parent

    Yes there are. (none / 0) (#175)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:13:07 AM EST
    I'm focusing on CD3 as that's where I'm landing next spring. And CD4 is where I'll eventually end up according to plan. I don't think Obama did as well in NoCal as he expected or LA. And he better consider everything else in between in the GE. I realize he's way out front now, but blowing off CA just because he is, could be a prob. Same with NY. Part of Hillary's 67% re-election stats was upstate and Republicans.

    If he treats both states as fall in line states, well, some of us know how that feels. I'm a native CA gal, so I'm basically moving back from a similar mindset, statewide. I'll be going from Brooklyn to a small mountain town, but I'm used to different environments. It's my history. I think that's why I find it interesting watching Obama and his disconnects.

    I liked Jay's interview with Hil. You could see they had a connect on the working class. Waters and Feinstein were great. And iirc, Boxer didn't flip until it was over. Only thing I'm really embarrassed about as a CA gal now is Nancy. I voted for her back in the day. Luckily, I won't be moving back to SF as I originally thought. I'm over the pet limit, lol!~  ;)

    Parent

    I forgot to ask (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:15:43 AM EST
    Did you see all the little comedy skits Leno had about Hillary towards the end of the primary?  She had to have filmed her part when she was in town to be on his show.  They must have written the scripts ahead of time.  

    One I thought that was really funny showed Hillary joining the "common folk" by robbing a liquor store with a gun.  Another one had either her or him calling the other one at 3 a.m.  

    He had one on almost every night.  They were all cute and they showed Hillary as someone with a sense of humor, similar to her SNL appearances.  Since she was out of money at that point in the campaign, I'm sure she enjoyed the free publicity.  And Leno is a liberal.  

       

    Parent

    Obama didn't do well in Los Angeles (none / 0) (#190)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:05:16 AM EST
    Hillary took Los Angeles county.    

    I'm not so sure he'll do well here in November, despite what the polls say.  I don't see signs for him or much support for him.  In fact, this past Saturday we drove through an area where we should have seen some Obama support but the only signs I saw were for Open Houses.

    He didn't carry any of the areas around here with the "movie star elite."  Hillary carried those, for some reason.  

    People were actually kind of quiet on their Hillary support.  Some of the bigger power brokers in the entertainment industry went for Obama, so that probably had something to do with it.  (Everybody still needs to have a job after the elections!  :) )      

    Parent

    You said it perfectly (none / 0) (#172)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:05:56 AM EST
    there was a discussion of the total outing of the Clintons from the party.

    The DNC and other party leaders began the outing campaign in 2004 (Obama gave the keynote speech) because they knew Hillary would run in 2008. So the leadership think that with the nomination of Obama, the outing of the Clintons is fait accompli. Not.

    Hillary and Bill are working diligently to ensure they come on top.  Only fools don't see it.

    Parent

    Hillary's career (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by daria g on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:40:57 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    Bill may be receiving on of those (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42:36 PM EST
    text messages:  change of plans; you aren't speaking afterall.  Sorry.

    Parent
    he wishes (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by dissenter on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:46:43 PM EST
    He is probably hoping he has to fly off to comfort flood victims or something and is forced to miss the gig.  

    Parent
    I think that would be best (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Upstart Crow on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:54:31 PM EST
    for the Clintons both to be far away from this mess.

    "Please get away from the blast zone. Remove to Bunkers #2 and #4."

    Parent

    Sent at 3 am n/t (none / 0) (#63)
    by jpete on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:48:17 PM EST
    Taken (none / 0) (#23)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:32:51 PM EST
    They gave that speech to Napolitano and Sebelius
    Tuesday: will outline Obama's detailed plan to grow the economy, create jobs, restore fairness and expand opportunity. (Source DNC)

    Parent
    Geez (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:39:36 PM EST
    Let's not have the Democrat who took us out of the red and balanced the budget talk about the economy, I know let's get some folks who people(other than the people in their respective states)will have no clue who they are and have them talk about the economy instead.

    The party must want to lose, there can be no other excuse for this kind of stupidity.

    Parent

    Bill Clinton is the Democrat who... (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Realleft on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:15:09 AM EST
    prevented a 9-11 event from happening on our soil (remember the New Years Eve 2000 plan to hit Seattle?).  Who understood that these terrorists are criminals who should be tracked down, arrested, tried and convicted as the criminals they are, not made into heroes fighting a noble cause against a dominating invader.   Who actually tried to kill Bin Laden instead of letting him waltz away.  Who led the world in finally addressing a horrifically ignored situation involving genocide.  Who knew the difference between strategic strikes intended to cripple the enemy and full deployment into intractable situations that results in us being the ones who are crippled.  Who is a hero for bringing together the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.  Who made greater progress toward peace in the Middle East than had beeen made for twenty years before that.

    Yes, President Clinton had a great economic record.  But he also was successful at foreign policy after a rough start.  Far more successful than the administration of the past eight years.    Let him have his chance to trumpet it, and pass the baton to Obama to carry on the Clinton approach to foreign policy that was abandoned since the millenium to the great harm of this country.

    It's not a slight, its an incredible opportunity to remind people that its not just about today's economic dip, which will probably find some temporary relief before election day just like the gas prices dropped just before election in 2004.  A crucial message of the Democratic party is that Republicans have fundamentally undermined our military power and the crucial moral authority that supports it in the occupation of Iraq.  

    Parent

    I don't do sports (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:40:33 PM EST
    but this sounds to me like the little league team telling Babe Ruth that, sorry, his services aren't required because they have a "plan."

    Parent
    I do sports and that is the (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42:25 PM EST
    perfect comparison!

    Parent
    Ditto. (none / 0) (#159)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:13:15 AM EST
    Just drafted my FF team today. Season starts after the convention. PERFECT! I can concentrate on defending my title instead of banging my head against my desk wondering WTF the DNC/Obamanation is thinking.

    But there is a plus. Look at what Bill accomplished for his charity after he quit stumping for Hil. And then there was his Africa trip. And Hil's been bustin' butt since she suspended also. Busy on a few issues that concern us all. So maybe we should let little league continue while the adults get some work done  ;)

    Parent

    That's it for me, then. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:44:02 PM EST
    If Bill Clinton said to trust Obama on the economy, I would believe it.

    So I'm still left not able to trust Obama, after how he has voted and what he has said on other issues that matter to me.

    But the economy matters a lot to me in my struggling state.  Ah well, my vote won't matter here, anyway.

    Parent

    I am hoping that Wisconsin stays (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:09:44 PM EST
    as blue as Lake Michigan on a lovely autumn day, so that I can continue to see all this as spectator sport.

    Other than that, I have only the polls you have.

    Of course, I also have a lifetime raised and spent in politics here that tells me that if the polls are correct, a spaceship has come down and replaced all of the non-Milwaukeeans and especially the Waukeshans with pod people who now have no qualms about black and brown people whatsoever, not that any of them actually are allowed to live anywhere else in Wisconsin.  And therefore, all of my city's problems will be solved as generosity replaces racist mean-spiritedness and funding flows to our schools and other badly slashed-back social services.

    But whadda I know.  Hope.  Change.  Here? Sure.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#33)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:37:49 PM EST
    And Obama wants Giambi to bat lead off.

    The decision has been made.  Damon's batting clean-up.  The slot is taken.

    Parent

    It's a set-up. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Firewalker on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:35:43 PM EST
    More and more, (5.00 / 0) (#118)
    by Landulph on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:31:24 PM EST
    I am starting to believe the Sollis-Doyle/Brazille GOP-links conspiracy theories. Black Sox, anyone (to continue the sports metaphors)?

    PS: And that was Chicago too! I just realized that! Hmm . . .

    Parent

    Brazile on CNN... (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:15:11 PM EST
    assuring "Hillary will do a great thing to unite the party" Borgia says "how much more can the Obama camp do to please Hillary's people?"
    Blitzer asks if the roll call is necessary and why does she insist on going through with this. Further he says something like, "isn't this like poking her finger on the eye and stir things up"

    CNN assures that instead of on Wednesday, Hillary will release her delegates tomorrow!
    I guess they are really getting nervous. They probably have had to face facts: many of us are not drinking the Kool-aid, nor are going to get on that pony ride. NO WAY, NO HOW!!!

    They can't even get their talking point right (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Valhalla on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:07:46 PM EST
    Obama had to graciously urge Clinton to allow the roll-call vote, 'member?  it's only his great generosity at play here, not bc Hillary knows her voters.

    Parent
    Follow the money... (none / 0) (#24)
    by Aqua Blue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:32:54 PM EST
    What does that mean? (5.00 / 0) (#88)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:04:21 PM EST
    Is Obama paying MSNBC and CNN to be so obviously in the tank for Obama?  

    I think they saw Obama as some kind of savior, a very liberal messiah.  Plus they have to support anyone who is black, so no one can accuse them of being racist, or some such silly thing.  Also, they liked his elitism.  They aspire to be snooty Harvard graduates who sound sooooo smart.

    They simply fell in love with him, and can't bring themselves to face the fact that they fell in love with someone they didn't really know.  Don't we all hate when that happens?  

    Now they must continue to defend their choice, or look like the fools that they are.  

    Parent

    Advertising is the money. (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:10:20 AM EST
    And demographics uber alles.  They want the Obama 30-and-under demographics.

    That's all.  No journalistic integrity involved.  I think the last shreds of journalistic integrity at just about any of the msm were boxed up and sent off to archives years ago, for media scholars of the future to unravel the reasons for the demise of decency and even a half-decent job of reporting sometime in the late 20th century.

    Let that be known as the Jurassic Age of Journalism.  

    Parent

    Intelligent Comments (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Hozzie on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:20:56 PM EST
    Howdy. I've been lurking here for about a week or so, and I just have to say that I think this blog has the most intelligent, well-thought out and sensible comments of any of the left-wing or pro-Dem sites out there.

    Full disclosure: my politics are not what you would call left-wing or pro-Dem. Based on what I have seen, though, I know you'll welcome me just the same.

    Kudos, for putting together (and contributing to) a site that both encourages and challenges.

    Well, then, we just have to think (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:46:03 PM EST
    that yours is one of the most intelligent, well-thought out and sensible comments of the night. :-)

    Welcome.

    Parent

    Catori, you can try to be gracious (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:05:14 AM EST
    even though you appear to be incapable of being much else.

    Parent
    I might agree with you, but (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:24:41 PM EST
    I think the language is a little too much - it's similar to what I hated from the Obama followers during the Primary

    A PBS station was re-running an episode of (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Rhouse on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:37:59 PM EST
    "The Civil War" today. the Gettysburg one.  The last bit with Sam Waterston reciting the Gettysburg Address to  Ashokan Farewell  by  Jay Unger, never fails to move me and remind me of how terribly sad and great Lincoln was.  And to be blunt, how you really can't compare the two Senators from the great state of Illinois, so please don't try.

    I paid attention to some of it. (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:48:40 PM EST
    Enough to think that Lincoln had one of the crappiest times in this country's history to preside over.  So much so that a comparison to Lincoln never seems appropriate to me.

    Parent
    They must be in trouble (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by janarchy on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:46:21 PM EST
    As Democrats gather in Denver, Obama reassures Clinton backers

    Personally, it does look like a move of desperation after seeing that there was no Bounce for Biden (that sounds like a carnival ride...ew!). Too little too late, I'm thinking.

    BS! (5.00 / 0) (#70)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:50:34 PM EST
    They still don't get it. This is about what Clinton stood for, not her ego!  Obama, in my mind, doesn't hold a candle to her conviction and commitment.  That is not something they can fix by trying to play to her ego or our egos...just more B.S. from the Obama people.

    Parent
    That's what gets to me (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by janarchy on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:55:50 PM EST
    The media and the Obamabots keep playing up the ego when it's nothing to do with it. And most of her supporters (myself included) care more about this country and the Democratic party (at least what WAS the Democratic party) than one petty bureaucrat and his Chicago-thug friends. It's a lot bigger than being p!ssy because our candidate didn't win. Hell I'd vote for Biden as president tomorrow if he were the candidate provided he'd won the nomination fair and square.

    The more the media and the Obama camp push people to drop everyone and everything to worship at the altar of the One for no reason other than the fact that he's Barack Obama, the less we're likely to do it. They just don't get it.

    Parent

    I love how the Obama campain (none / 0) (#67)
    by dk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:49:04 PM EST
    spokespeople make a big deal out of the fact that Obama spoke to Bill and Hillary on the phone last week.

    Well, it could have been worse...he could have texted them.

    Parent

    Well, I'm sure they were thrilled. (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by janarchy on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:51:32 PM EST
    I personally liked this bit:

    Axelrod also said that Obama respects Clinton and will listen to her advice during the campaign.

    "He has a high regard for Senator Clinton . She's going to be an important voice in this campaign. She's going to be an important voice in moving this country forward in the next administration."

    We've seen that high regard so often in the last 9 months, haven't we?

    Parent

    Actually I think she will be listened to (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by DandyTIger on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:54:53 PM EST
    in the next administration. After all, she and McCain are friendly and have mutual respect. snark.

    Parent
    Yup. Nothing like (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by dk on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:56:21 PM EST
    a situation in which your campaign manager is forced to have to confirm that your candidate respects a powerful female senator and former first lady.

    Parent
    Omigod, when you put it that way (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:12:10 PM EST
    let's just call the whole thing off.  I smell a debacle in the making.

    Parent
    And: (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:58:59 PM EST
    Axelrod also said that Obama respects Clinton and will listen to her advice during the campaign.

    "He has a high regard for Senator Clinton . She's going to be an important voice in this campaign. She's going to be an important voice in moving this country forward in the next administration."

    What a crock.  

    Finally, Obama attended a Lutheran church in Eau Claire today.  Not exactly evangelical, but probably qualifies as middle class.

    Parent

    Depends. There are 14 kinds, I kid you not (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:16:50 PM EST
    of Lut'rans in Wisconsin, at last count.  

    And a lot of 'em won't talk (aka witness at) a lot of the other kinds of Lut'rans.  (that's the Up Nort' pronunciation.)  So, frankly, there's not a lot of other choices in churches to go to dere, ain'a.

    If in Eau Claire proper, probably middle-class.  College town.  If outside it, some pockets of desperate poverty amid semi-Twin Cities spillover prosperity -- but iffy these days, as the second-home boom that made Up Nort' prosper is now as passe as a Favre jersey.  

    I'm betting he stayed in town.  Hope he got the full treatment and had to head down to the basement to partake in "a dish to pass."

    Parent

    Jello, for sure. (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:23:55 PM EST
    Yeh, with multicolored marshmallows (5.00 / 0) (#127)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:38:50 PM EST
    embedded on the top and floating within, frozen forever in the culinary equivalent of plastic.

    Yum.

    Parent

    Correction: canned fruit cocktail (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:57:17 PM EST
    goes inside.  No marshmallows.  Those go on top.  For Christmas, add a layer of sour cream on top of the set jello.  

    Parent
    We always had (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:02:27 AM EST
    walnuts added as well.

    Parent
    Not self-denying enough for a Lut'ran dish (5.00 / 4) (#155)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:08:49 AM EST
    to pass.  You're more likely to get shredded carrot floating in the jello, with peas on top.

    Or, in that corner of northwestern Wisconsin, shredded baggies.  That's rutabaga to the rest of you.  The rutabaga capital of the world is there.

    And, of course, the annual baggie parade culminates in the crowning of the fortunate young thing picked for her pulchitrude to be Miss Baggy.

    I do not make this up.  I could not make this up.

    Parent

    My grandmother (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:28:36 AM EST
    did the carrot thing too. Weird, we were also Lutherans - Germans from Russia. That jello dish was at every gathering.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#101)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:14:15 PM EST
    the church he attended is part of the ELCA - the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.  But, evangelical is a bit of a misnomer in that case, yeah.

    Parent
    I found the report in the local paper (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:15:17 AM EST
    online, the Leader-Telegram.

    Obama's appearance there is the third story.  It was beat out by the big news of the day there -- stuff about district schools and something else that did not even lodge in my memory bank.

    That's about how much it mattered in northwestern Wisconsin.  But the Lut'rans thought he was real nice.  And he knew better than to sit in the front row, which would be so untoward and not at all the Lut'ran, self-effacing thing to do.  He sat in the fourth-row pew.  

    You now are entirely up-to-date on the news of the day in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

    Parent

    I know ELCA. No speaking in (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:23:28 PM EST
    tongues there.  

    Parent
    How big of him (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:06:58 PM EST
    THEY DO NOT GET IT!!!!!  

    Parent
    Monday night (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:53:03 PM EST
    I am thinking, may be something that those of us who are still in the liberal phase, may not like.

    This is the blurb:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Sen. Claire McCaskill will speak about the values of the Democratic Party and the efforts to take America in a New Direction and to reach out to all voters, in particular new voters, independents and Republicans to get the country moving in the right direction again at this critical time; nightly theme will be "One Nation." (Source DNC)

    What I make out of that is the non partisan rhetoric, the change message, the compromise, the
    no Democrat/no Republican party. I am not sure I agree with that. I like being a partisan Democrat but I admit I am the "old" Democratic party.

    More of the unity schtick (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:59:06 PM EST
    In a year we should be pounding the GOP for the past eight years, the Dem party wants to play nice and be post partisan. Sigh.

    Parent
    Well, I think we should take them at the word (5.00 / 6) (#85)
    by janarchy on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:04:05 PM EST
    Be non-partisan and just vote for the bloody Republicans rather than Republicans in Democrats' clothing. They're advocating one big Republicrat party, aren't they? /snark

    Parent
    How about they reach out to (5.00 / 5) (#132)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:42:54 PM EST
    DEMOCRATS!!!  That's their base of support.  If they don't  work hard for the party, and GOTV, nothing else will matter.  

    What the heck is wrong with these people?!!  Republicans aren't going to help them win, but democrats might, if they appeal them.  They need to convince US, the democrats, to vote for them, before they even think about recruiting republicans and independents.  

    Did ANY of these dopes take the basic Politics 101 class?  There sure isn't any evidence of that.  

    Parent

    You said it! (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:10:35 AM EST
    I was thinking the same thing!!  

    What's wrong with the Democrat Party??!!  They have freakin' flipped their lid this year!!!!!  

    Parent

    Obama is reaching to Republicans (none / 0) (#178)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:35:28 AM EST
    the religious right and those people who've not been interested enough in politics to register.  Yup. Obama gets rid of the sure thing, people like me who has never missed voting for those who never vote because they have a life.  He's going for the two birds in the bush because:

    He has high hope. He has high hope, high apple pie in the sky hope.

    Parent

    They really want (none / 0) (#179)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:36:11 AM EST
    the Republicans and Independents I guess. I realize that is Obama's theme - change- everyone -for every person, etc.  And McCaskill is very moderate Democrat as I understand.  But Pelosi?

    Remember when Brazill said that the Party wants to rid: " the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater."

    Maybe she wrote the speech.

    Parent

    If you assume the leadership of the Democratic (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by karmadillo on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:03:14 PM EST
    Party doesn't really want to win the Presidency, everything begins to make sense.

    Unfortunately, (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:11:17 PM EST
    I'm starting to think you're right. And the R's didn't really seem to want it either, just nominating McCain ticked off their base considerably. And McCain isn't so much running a good campaign as he's not actively aggravating the voters. Yet.

    Feels like a game of hot potato, where no one wants to clean up BushCo's mess. Except Hillary, bless her heart.

    Parent

    "Not actually aggravating the voters" (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:20:06 PM EST
    puts McCain ahead at this point, by comparison, after seeing this thread.  

    The book to be written on this campaign is welcome to a title never used by myself and a friend about an institution where we both worked that has a record of more than a century of never quite closing but never quite making it past the second tier, either.

    The title:  Struggling Toward Mediocrity.

    Parent

    May I suggest a few others? (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Landulph on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:38:31 PM EST
    Bamboozled
    Some People Bought Edsels
    Clusterf*ck

    Or, as BTD suggested a while back:

    Playing to Lose

    Parent

    Republicans close ranks (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:32:36 PM EST
    They always do.  They do not speak ill of each other and they will vote for McCain.  They are falling in line.  The polls are beginning to show that.  Meanwhile, Democrats are eating their young, and each other.  Blech.  

    Parent
    Ha. It appears to be the young (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:40:34 PM EST
    who are carving up the Democrats and serving us up on skewers.

    Parent
    The young keep (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:34:23 AM EST
    telling me I'm chicken...  

    Is that what this skewer is for?  ;-)

    Parent

    It struck me last night (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:45:31 AM EST
    that I now understand my mother's longstanding animosity towards the hippie movement. I've heard time and again how she hated being told at 35 that she was old, everything was her fault and this new generation would be so much different. Of course, those people, among others, are getting pay back. Is this some odd way the Democrats have of purging themselves every 40 years?

    Parent
    Meanwhile, on a lighter subject (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:08:44 PM EST
    Joe Biden's wife Jill sounds like an interesting and together woman. And she's from Willow Grove, PA.

    And she has a doctorate (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:13:54 PM EST
    in education! I'd love to hear some speeches from her about NCLB, the horrible state of special education right now, and how bad vouchers would be for our public schools. She seems like a sweetheart too.

    Parent
    She must be a patient woman (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:15:17 PM EST
    or, perhaps, hard of hearing...

    Parent
    Thank God for that lonely commute (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:25:13 PM EST
    on Amtrak!

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#117)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:30:13 PM EST
    I swear that people who ride Amtrak between NY and DC have better access to politicos than just about anyone. I've run into everyone from Jerry Nadler (complete with a big Hillary button) to Tom Carper.

    Parent
    I've taken that ride (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:33:53 PM EST
    but I am really really bad at recognizing famous people.   They always look completely different to me in real life than they do on TV.  Of course, Tom Carper I'd have trouble recognizing for other reasons.

    Parent
    Carper is totally nondescript (none / 0) (#131)
    by andgarden on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:42:17 PM EST
    and soporific.

    Parent
    Famous people always look (none / 0) (#168)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:47:23 AM EST
    different in person to me too!  I thought I was the only one with this problem!  

    Not only that, I'm really bad with names so I hardly ever know who anyone is unless they are a huge, huge name like Brad Pitt or Ray Charles or Bob Eubanks. :)  

    I live in LA and used to work in the entertainment industry so this has proven to be quite funny at times.  

    Parent

    A patient woman who apparently (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:28:28 PM EST
    successfully pulled off the blended family thing.  Really tough.

    Parent
    Gotta be deaf :-) (none / 0) (#106)
    by RalphB on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:20:02 PM EST
    Plus McCain dancing on the table (none / 0) (#113)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:26:59 PM EST
    top w/a red bandana between his teeth.

    Parent
    I read anout her also (none / 0) (#119)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:31:46 PM EST
    I liked her immediately. I also like how he appears to respect her and support her choices.

    Most of the top men in the campaign, except for Dean, in my opinion) seem to like and respect the women they are married to and seem to be fine fathers. Clinton was a cad but they seemed to have worked it out and they raised an exceptional daughter; Obamas seems to have a partnership and he seems like a great dad; Biden seems to be a decent father and is proud of his children and grandchildren. Dean, well he left his wife in Vermont to practice medicine and I haven't heard about her since.
     

    Parent

    I can't help but wonder (1.00 / 1) (#125)
    by SueBonnetSue on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:36:42 PM EST
    Why Biden didn't move his family to where his job has been for over 30 years?  Don't most people move their family to where their job is, rather than spend 3 hours a day commuting?  That's 3 hours every day that he didn't spend with his kids.  I bet he rarely saw his kids during the work week.  What family man commutes 3 hours a day, rather than move his family to where he works?  


    Parent
    He sd. his family rallied around (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:00:49 AM EST
    to help him raise his sons after their mother died.  Sounds like he wanted the boys to have the most stable situation possible. Good for him.

    Parent
    One that has 3 hours of work to do on the train (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Upstart Crow on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:05:51 AM EST
    I can't help but wonder... (5.00 / 3) (#162)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:23:07 AM EST
    ...what kind of person belittles another for doing what they think is right for their family?  

    This the the 2nd time you've posted this, so it appears that you are trying to make it an issue.  It's not.  It is a personal attack, plain and simple.  

    Parent

    i have nothing negative to say about dean (none / 0) (#134)
    by Edgar08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:47:26 PM EST
    on the topic you're discussing.  nothing would have prompted me to do so.

    as for bill, without drawing too too many corollaries and false analogies, because it is something i watched recently, i think about this movie called "The Piano" and I consider the possibility that there are many ways to disrespect a woman and that a man who holds true to the letter of his marriage vows and respects his wife that way may still find other ways to keep a woman boarded up inside the house and clip her wings.

    but yes.  he was a cad.


    Parent

    Anti-choice bookends (5.00 / 7) (#95)
    by Dawn Davenport on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:10:05 PM EST
    I'd already read that a Republican, pro-life pastor was going to give the closing convocation for the convention, but now I've just found out that the first official act of the convention was an anti-choice bishop leading a prayer:

    He spoke of what he called "the moral and spiritual pain" felt by many people because of what he termed "disregard for the lives of the unborn."

    And this is the party that's trying to use Roe as a scare tactic?


    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by RalphB on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:17:28 PM EST
    the gang that couldn't shoot straight  :-)


    Parent
    It is the End Times for the Dems. (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:24:17 PM EST
    Buried at Denver 8/24/2008.  

    May it rest in peace.  But somehow, I doubt it.

    Parent

    Oh my! (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by Grace on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:50:31 PM EST
    What were the Obama supporters saying about Roe v. Wade again?  

    Parent
    TCM is airing "The Best Man" based (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by SunnyLC on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:40:51 PM EST
    on the Gore Vidal play right now...eerily similar to what's going on today...It was filmed in 1964 with Henry Fonda and Cliff Robertson...what a great film!


    I'm watching it, too. (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:13:28 AM EST
    How about the Dem Party dinner scene where the leader of the party yuks it up by saying that someday there will be a "Negro president . . . and then we will get around to the ladies."  And the audience yuks it up, too, at the very idea.

    Life imitates art, yet again.

    Parent

    Btw, it was written by Gore Vidal (none / 0) (#161)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:14:40 AM EST
    whose books always were amazingly savvy delights on political history.  

    Parent
    this all reminds me of 2000 (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:00:10 AM EST
    when Gore wouldn't use Clinton. Hmm, didn't Donna B. have something to do with that then.

    I'm guessing the Clinton's are amazingly frustrated right now. Thinking hey, we can help you get elected. Let us talk about the economy. Listen to our ideas about campaigning. Etc. But noooo.

    Oh well. Hopefully the dem congress will get a spine and block some of McCain's crazier ideas.

    I think the Obama campaign has (none / 0) (#149)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:03:55 AM EST
    gotten what it wanted from the Clintons, i.e., Hillary's list of donors.  My mail is full of Obama stuff now.

    Parent
    I'm happy to report mine isn't (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:10:06 AM EST
    I sent them mail saying not to pass my info on to the Obama campaign. And they didn't. That's an effective and efficient office.

    Parent
    Ditto. Only one Obama appeal (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:19:47 AM EST
    has gotten through in all these months.  The innards got shredded and put in the return envelope, postage-paid by Obama.  I did not put on my own stamp, as requested, to spare his "much-needed funds," as I recall the wording.  Sorry, Senator Obama, but I sent money to Senator Clinton instead, so moved was I by your heartfelt request that I help to retire her debt.

    Parent
    Any prediction about Obama's bounce (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:28:56 AM EST
    after the convention?  Gallup has the historical bounce, usually 5 points.  But guess who didn't get a bounce but dropped in the polls? Bush? Nope.  Gore? nope. Kerry!
    He dropped one point.
    I'm thinking that Obama will better Kerry with a drop of 3 points.

      Gallup

    I remember that post-convention thud (none / 0) (#198)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:39:52 AM EST
    last time.  I expected it, actually, after that silly salute he did.

    I think that Obama won't have to do a thing like that to create a thud like that.  From the photo I saw of the stage, that will do it all by itself.

    I give it a point that will disappear fast, because McCain makes his VP pick the next day.  If it's an interesting one, the heavens will open in hallelujahs for something to enliven September.  

    And then we can hope for gaffes, any gaffes, to get us through what has become quite a slog to get to election day and get this awful year behind us.

    Parent

    Obama said (2.33 / 3) (#138)
    by MrPope on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:54:19 PM EST
    Obama just said in an interview that he believes water is wet.  how dare he say something like that.. he is not ready to lead and what an Insult to the Clintons!

    Wow! That's just amazing to me! (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:57:23 AM EST
    He can't even be decisive about whether water is wet or not!  

    Of course, water is wet!  Is this another position he plans to waffle on?  What does he mean by "Believes water is wet"?  Because, you know, the next time around he will say "As I have always said, water is NOT wet!"  

    Parent

    You've noticed that too (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:06:48 AM EST
    every time I here him pull the "I've repeatedly said..." routine, I cringe. If his campaign is so Internet savvy hasn't someone explained to him that there will be a video on YouTube showing otherwise?

    Parent
    I'd envision the scenario thusly (5.00 / 3) (#183)
    by tree on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:47:04 AM EST
    Obama would announce that he believes water is wet. Certain reporters and pundits fall all over themselves announcing what a truly brilliant(and transformational) statement it was. Matthews will get that tingle up his leg again. The usual blogs will go nuts with gushing praise and suggest that Obama give a speech on wetness. Someone on one of those blogs will proudly claim that Clinton would have never realized this, and thus Obama has once again shown his superior judgment.
     Someone from the MSM will ask Clinton if she agrees that water is wet. She will answer, "Yes, of course." CNN will spend a half an hour disecting the meaning of that statement and conclude that "of course" was meant as a slap to Obama, implying, as she surely must have intended, that anyone with half a brain would have known that water is wet. Jack Cafferty  would spend another half an hour ranting about WWSSTFU.

     Keith Olbermann will make  Hillary Clinton the worst person of the week for saying 3 words and he'll belch out another Special Comment invoking poor Edward R. Murrow again. Someone on the usual blogs will invoke "Whitewater" and someone else will make this her "Water-gate."

      Meanwhile, Fox News will reveal that Ronald Reagan was in fact the first politician to wisely proclaim that water is wet and that the Democrats have always been anti-water.

      John McCain's campaign will insist that he's always known that water is wet, especially since  he had to endure the Chinese water torture when he was a POW.

      The Obama campaign, when not floating the idea of a  major speech on wetness, either in front of the Reflecting Pool at the Washington Monument, or at the White Water Amusement Park in Branson, MS, will counter the McCain campaign by insisting that  McCain doesn't know that water is wet because he doesn't know how many pools he has anymore than  he knows how many houses he has. The usual suspects will think this is a brilliant attack on McCain.

      Those of us at TL will be laughing it up, after knocking ourselves silly hitting our heads against the wall.
       

    Parent

    You forgot that Bill Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:31:34 AM EST
    when badgered by a reporter over and over to say something, finally said that the whole thing about water was a fairy tale.

    It became the lead story on all the news channels and cause for him to be denounced as a racist by Prima Donna B., who muttered about "blood in the water in the streets of Denver."  
    And Eugene Robinson could only agree that Bill was a racist, because of the Bradley effect, which he thinks was named for Bill Bradley, who also has the name Bill.  

    And Jesse Jackson the Junior noted that Hillary Clinton didn't cry for the water over the levees, and she's a racist anyway because she has hewn to Bill Clinton as a woman ought to do and all.

    And Howard Dean would have wrung his hands about it, but he didn't know it was happening, because he never watches tv.  Not for years now.  He is stunned to hear that it's in new-fangled color and will have to see that, as soon as he is done doing a heckuva job, Howie, in running this party.

    Btw, I do kudo you for capturing so well, though, the thoughts from Teh One on the need for a national discourse on water.  I take this as his support for the new Great Lakes Compact, which will preserve the wetness of the five lakes bordering eight states of the fifty-eight plus  Canada -- unless it has anything to do with NAFTA, which is going to change or not be changed, depending.  

    As he has repeatedly said, because no one has done more for water than Obama.  No one.

    Parent

    Nine states. Its nine states (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by tree on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:17:45 AM EST
    bordering the Great Lakes. You forgot Oregon.

    Parent
    John McCain will put out a (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:36:01 AM EST
    new advertisement on "The One" and his position on water.  

    Once again, Charleton Heston will part the Red Sea, then Obama will proclaim "Water is wet."  

    Nancy Pelosi will be shown stating "No one knows more about wetness than Barrack!"

    Joe Biden will say "Water?  You mean that stuff they put on the golf courses at night?"

    And the three Obama supporters will say:

    Supporter 1:  I get wet when Obama talks about wetness.  I can feel what he's saying...

    Supperter 2:  His eyes are amazing, like cool pools of deep water...

    Supporter 3:  He makes me want to take a shower, which is what water is all about.

    Cut to Barack Obama:  I've always believed, even as a young child living with my Kansas-born mother in Hawaii, that water was wet.

    Voiceover:  Water is wet, but is Barack Obama ready to lead?  

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#184)
    by themomcat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:53:06 AM EST
    Now I won't have to watch any of the news channels and can watch the US Open without feeling I missed anything. LOL

    Parent
    MrPope, (none / 0) (#201)
    by misspeach2008 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 07:18:41 AM EST
    When you play with fire at TalkLeft, be sure you have a bucket of water handy. Great laughs, TLers!

    Parent
    Still no bounce... :) (none / 0) (#1)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:05:14 PM EST


    Perhaps bouncing off the cliff.... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:30:35 PM EST
    all the way down, I'm afraid. The 47-47 tie portends not good tidings for Obama.

    Parent
    Apparently these were the results they (none / 0) (#53)
    by PssttCmere08 on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:43:08 PM EST
    were looking for or could expect given obama's poor performance...

    Parent
    I'm suspending my ODS for Convention Week (none / 0) (#2)
    by catfish on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:11:37 PM EST
    Let's see how the week plays out. There's a melancholy/tension in the air that is very odd. We need comic relief stat.

    When I drove by (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:21:52 PM EST
    The Colorado Convention Center tonight, something was up, but this guy had a better view.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29852232@N02/2795299460/

    Parent

    What is that for (none / 0) (#26)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:35:20 PM EST
    Bear Sterns? Or just mountain bears?

    Parent
    To be honest, (none / 0) (#61)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:47:37 PM EST
    I'm not sure, but it's most likely about actual bears. We have quite a lot of Art around Town that I don't quite get. Such as this one

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/29852232@N02/?saved=1

    Parent

    Very clever (none / 0) (#102)
    by MichaelGale on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:14:50 PM EST
    and done so well.

    I need to get to Denver.  After the convention that is.

    Parent

    If you come up with some ways to overcome (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by bjorn on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:32:22 PM EST
    the melancholy please let us know.  I am not sure I can even watch any of the convention.

    Parent
    Predictions anyone? (none / 0) (#4)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:13:05 PM EST
    Anyone want to make predictions about speeches or votes or propose drinking games?

    Will Obama praise the Clinton economy?
    Will Obama himself praise Hillary Clinton - one sentence?  Two?  A paragraph?  A minute?  More?
    What will be the most over used phrase of the convention?  The most clueless?
    Will Obama praise Reagan?
    Will Al Gore be there?  Speak?
    Will there be rioting in the streets?  Who?
    Which bloggers will provide the best coverage?
    Will any speaker will get booed?

    Drinking game:
    One sip every time Obama mentions a family member.

    Most overused phrase... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:01:42 AM EST
    I'm going to go with "Change you can believe in."  

    I also believe we'll be hearing "Scranton" and "Catholic" quite often, along with "Kansas," "heartland of America," "strong women."

    The code words:  "Hope, unity, change" have all been used to death but I'm sure they'll add some new ones.  I think "Trust" might be among them.

    Anybody got a copy of all of Deval Patrick's speeches?  I'm sure we'd find some clues in those...    

    Parent

    Faith. We will hear about Faith. (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:34:24 AM EST
    With a capital F.

    Parent
    I found it interesting (none / 0) (#154)
    by tlkextra on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 12:08:33 AM EST
    that the trucks I saw tonight, circling the streets of Denver, covered with huge photos pushing Pro-Life agenda were from Kansas.

    Parent
    My predictions (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by Realleft on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:57:50 AM EST
    Obama will praise the Clinton economy as well as foreign policy that prevented any terrorist attacks on our soil.  He will praise that Clinton treated the terrorists as the criminals they are rather than the defenders of their faith as they have been cast over the past 8 years.  He will praise Senator Clinton as the best example of someone who is committed to her causes and who provides strong wisdom and leadership, wisdom and leadership that he aspires to.  He will state that the Legislative branch of the US government was designed to be equal to, and maybe stronger than the executive branch, and he hopes to restore the balance between branches of government during his tenure as President, returning much of the power that rightfull resides in the Congress, not in the Executive branch where it has steadily gathered.  Senator Clinton will speak of her causes, and agree with Obama about the importance of the federal government being balanced across the three (not four!) branches of government, and will stake her claim to contribute all she can in the Senate (without outright indicating that she wishes to become Senate leader).  She will say that, despite the difficulties that have existed within the Democratic party this year, and the mistakes that were made in the contest for nomination, she is a Democrat and bears no ill feelings about the highly competitive and sometimes cutthroat game that is politics.  She will reveal that she did not seek the VP position and asked not to be vetted unless the Obama camp felt that it was essential to winning that she be asked to take on that role, a role that provides her less opportunity to contribute than the possible role ahead of her in the Senate.  She will encourage her supporters to make their own decisions of conscience, reminding them of some of the differences between Democrats and Republicans on the crucial issues facing the country.  Al Gore will speak and say that although he minimized his connection with PResident Clinton during his own campaign, it was a mistake to have done so, and would have been a mistake to have made any other decisions that did not honor the whole of the Democratic Party.  Bill Clinton will identify the great Democratic themes related to foreign policy and defense, tying the issue of making wise decisions in these areas to regaining a strong economy.  Biden will remind us that he wishes to serve in this role, but has no interest or intention in attempting to pursue the Presidency in eight years, and that he hopes that Senator Clinton will be willing to take that role in 2016.  Obama will eventually name several individuals to the key roles that they will play in the administration - including Clark as Secretary of Defense, etc. etc.

    At least that's some of what I hope....

    Parent

    Obama will praise Hillary, (none / 0) (#25)
    by Firewalker on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:32:59 PM EST
    followed by 75, 000 hardcore Obama supporters booing her. UNITY!

    Parent
    In my opinion, if Obama planned to (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:38:17 PM EST
    praise Hillary, he would have done so Sat. in Springfield in the shadow of Lincoln.

    Parent
    I hope not because (none / 0) (#49)
    by tlkextra on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42:24 PM EST
    that lack of respect is exactly what will set off the Clinton Supporters. But, if history repeats itself (meaning the RBC meeting), his people will be praised for their passion, while her people will be reprimanded for being a disgrace to their candidate.

    Parent
    My predictions (none / 0) (#188)
    by Realleft on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:04:43 AM EST
    Obama will praise the Clinton economy as well as foreign policy that prevented any terrorist attacks on our soil.  He will praise that President Clinton treated the terrorists as the criminals they are rather than the defenders of their faith as they have been cast over the past 8 years.  He will praise Senator Clinton as the best example of someone who is committed to her causes and who provides strong wisdom and leadership, wisdom and leadership that he aspires to.  He will state that the Legislative branch of the US government was designed to be equal to, and maybe stronger than the executive branch, and he hopes to restore the balance between branches of government during his tenure as President, returning much of the power that rightfully resides in the Congress, not in the Executive branch where it has steadily gathered.  He will hope that Senator Clinton will lead the Legislative branch toward enacting laws that support her vital causes.

    Senator Clinton will speak of her causes, and agree with Obama about the importance of the federal government being balanced across the three (not four!) branches of government, and will stake her claim to contribute all she can in the Senate (without outright indicating that she wishes to become Senate leader).  She will say that, despite the difficulties that have existed within the Democratic party this year, and the mistakes that were made in the contest for nomination, she is a Democrat and bears no ill feelings about the highly competitive and sometimes cutthroat game that is politics.  She will reveal that she did not seek the VP position and asked not to be vetted unless the Obama camp felt that it was essential to winning that she be asked to take on that role, a role that provides her less opportunity to contribute than the possible role ahead of her in the Senate.  She will encourage her supporters to make their own decisions of conscience, reminding them of some of the differences between Democrats and Republicans on the crucial issues facing the country.  

    Vice-President and Senator Al Gore will speak and say that although he minimized his connection with President Clinton during his own campaign, it was a mistake to have done so, and would have been a mistake to have made any other decisions that did not honor the whole of the Democratic Party.  

    President Clinton will identify the great Democratic themes related to foreign policy and defense, tying the issue of making wise decisions in these areas to regaining a strong economy.  Biden will remind us that he wishes to serve in this role, but has no interest or intention in attempting to pursue the Presidency in eight years, and that he hopes that Senator Clinton will be willing to take that role in 2016.  

    Obama will eventually name several individuals to the key roles that they will play in the administration - including Clark as Secretary of Defense, etc. etc.

    At least that's some of what I hope....

    Parent

    Question (none / 0) (#19)
    by halstoon on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:31:11 PM EST
    Suppose someone was caught selling 2 ounces of powder cocaine to DEA agents in NY state, and when the cops search that person's home they found another 6 ounces of cocaine, along with a small amount (<5k) of cash.
    That's an A-1 felony. What would a person be looking at as far as time served goes? Assume other minor arrests but no other felonies.

    Thanks for playing along in advance.

    Not being a lawyer (none / 0) (#48)
    by dissenter on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:42:11 PM EST
    but I would imagine it would depend on whether they were charged under state or federal law

    Parent
    your friend I suppose? (none / 0) (#181)
    by Salo on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 01:41:08 AM EST
    That's a heck of a lot of coke. And not a small amount of cash.

    sentence a few years out in six to twelve months.

    Parent

    Last thread (none / 0) (#55)
    by cawaltz on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 10:45:37 PM EST
    Ugh i hate when I get cut off and can't respond. :)

    Landolph, you missed my point. I was already aware that someone who served in the military during Vietnam probably was familiar with a gun. My point was the DNC dressed him up in duck hunting garb and THAT made the hunting set here in SW Va laugh themselves silly at the smell of pander(and lordy can they sniff out some pander).

    McCain called Obama the celebrity candidate, (none / 0) (#120)
    by Firewalker on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:32:05 PM EST
    so why is McCain the one getting into a celebrity feud? Who does he think he is? Nicole Richie?
    McCain camp lashes 'outrageous' Madonna Sun Aug 24, 8:44 PM ET McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds angrily condemned the segment of Madonna's concert in Cardiff on Saturday that appeared to draw a comparison between McCain, Hitler and Zimbabwean strongman Robert Mugabe. "The comparisons are outrageous, unacceptable and crudely divisive all at the same time," Bounds said in a statement reported by Fox News. "It clearly shows that when it comes to supporting Barack Obama, his fellow worldwide celebrities refuse to consider any smear or attack off limits."
    LINK McCain's been angry at Madonna ever since she sampled ABBA. He didn't feel she did them justice.

    Haha (5.00 / 0) (#123)
    by Steve M on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:35:28 PM EST
    Too funny.  Luckily for Obama, he is only required to apologize for black celebrities.

    Parent
    But Obama is post-racial, right :-) (none / 0) (#140)
    by RalphB on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:54:53 PM EST
    Now here's the CDS interpretation: (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Firewalker on Sun Aug 24, 2008 at 11:43:03 PM EST
    Madonna supported Hillary Clinton in the primary and now she's trying to undermine Obama, and help McCain win so that Hillary can run again in 2012!

    Parent