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Baggage

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:00:32 AM EST
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NYTimes:

During the years that Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. was helping the credit card industry win passage of a law making it harder for consumers to file for bankruptcy protection, his son had a consulting agreement that lasted five years with one of the largest companies pushing for the changes, aides to Senator Barack Obama’s presidential campaign acknowledged Sunday. Campaign officials acknowledged that the connection between the Bidens and MBNA, the enormous financial services company then based in their home state of Delaware, was one of the most sensitive issues they examined while vetting the senator for a spot on the ticket.

Mr. Biden’s support for the bankruptcy changes, which were signed into law in 2005, puts him at odds with Mr. Obama of Illinois, who opposed the bill and has criticized the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, for supporting it. Consumer advocates and other Democratic allies remain sharply critical of Mr. Biden’s actions, saying in recent days that they could hamper the campaign’s efforts to attack the Republicans over their handling of the nation’s credit crisis.

Baggage. Every pol has some.

By Big Tent Democrat.

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    Baggage | 81 comments (81 topical)

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    By the truckload. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Redshoes on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:05:08 AM EST
    Notice how it's the lead on the Monday the convention starts -- it's an effort to unpack and put it away before anyone notices.

    Just add to the list of reasons why this is not your parents or grandparent's Democratic ticket.

    Biggest thing (none / 0) (#48)
    by tek on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:59:44 AM EST
    I don't understand about this VP pick.  Why pick some guy who has run for prez a gazillion times and could not garner enough support to get off the bottom of the pile?  Now Obama's gonna force this man on the American electorate and if anything happened to Obama, Biden would be president!  Just mind-boggling.  

    An interesting aside:  I had a conversation with a woman at a pool party Sat. night, retired academic like me.  My husband mentioned that we had been thinking about leaving the country for a long time and the best place seemed like Canada.  She said she and her husband had gone to live in Canada for a couple of years.  They tried everything to get citizenship but couldn't.  She told us that Canada has tightened their border so much you can't get in there unless you have relatives.  

    Just sort of interesting.  Canada is way more liberal than the U. S.  Canada is built on immigration.  Yet, progressives in Canada see nothing wrong or immoral about regulating who crosses their borders, while American liberals whine that we have to throw our southern border open and let all comers enter with no background checks or regulations at all.  One consequence of that ill-considered policy is that Americans are no longer welcome in Canada.

    Parent

    tek- a prof. and his wife (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kenosharick on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:17:18 AM EST
    from my school just moved to Canada-no problem (no relatives there). I am a liberal and know a lot of liberals and none of us are for "throwing our borders open to all comers" as you say. Sounds like you have been listening to too much rush limbaugh.

    Parent
    never (none / 0) (#66)
    by tek on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:22:04 AM EST
    listen to Rush Limbaugh.  i just read the liberal blogs.  I follow what Democratic pols have said and done on this issue since 2004.  If you haven't noticed, NO Democratic politician has tackled this issue.  Hillary did say that she would not support a bill to make Spanish an official language in the U. S.  McCain told a group of businessmen in AZ that he does not support hiring illegal workers.  No one else has said anything to give illelgals the idea that they won't be amnestied under a Democratic administration.

    I believe my friend's other condition that could lead to citizenship in Canada was that if you were going there for a job you get in.  Is that how you were able to immigrate?

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#67)
    by tek on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:23:42 AM EST
    misread the last of your post.  I guess you had a colleague who immigrated.

    Parent
    Ummm (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by eric on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:21:19 AM EST
    Biden has only run for President twice, and 1988 and 2008.

    Second, Canada uses a point system for those seeking citizenship.  Having relatives there is one factor, along with age, education, and one's job skills.  Essentially, Canada wants to know what you can offer and wants assurance that you won't be a burden.

    Finally, I can assure you that Americans are very much welcome in Canada.  They barely check you out as you cross.  I think that you are confusing citizenship standards with border crossing procedures.  There isn't even anything close to a fence at the US Canada border.

    Parent

    What is a burden? (none / 0) (#76)
    by alexei on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:01:09 PM EST
    Seriously, what is a burden?  People who are over a certain age apparently have to pay an extraordinary amount for health care because the "assumption" is that they will be a "burden" on Canadians.  Is that not a discriminatory practice? Shouldn't it be case by case?

    I understand that there should be some way of determining citizenship, but, I believe that Canada's is too discriminatory (ageist, economically unjust, to name two).  Why does a predetermined point system over ride actual results in the Country?
     

    Parent

    If you are educated (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by dissenter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:26:36 AM EST
    have work experience and speak English it is really easy to move to Canada. Immigration is based on a points system. You can look it up on the web.

    Parent
    Not very conducive for diversity. (none / 0) (#77)
    by alexei on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:03:35 PM EST
    So, those that are seeking to better themselves and their families by emigrating are put into pigeon holes and given demerits on the point system because they don't have the requisite education, language and work experience?  Pretty darn discriminatory to me.

    Parent
    yeah, well (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by desmoinesdem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:09:02 AM EST
    Biden voted against the horrible Bush energy bill that Obama voted for. He also supported the filibuster of FISA.

    Sherrod Brown voted for the torture bill in 2006.

    Like you say, everyone has some baggage.

    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:12:25 AM EST
    Every pol has some.

    That's the way it is.

    Parent

    Damning with faint praise ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:25:48 AM EST
    and, frankly, Obama's position on the credit industry hasn't been that great either.

    This may bring that whole thing up again.

    Parent

    They are pols (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:28:15 AM EST
    What do you want from me? Politics is a dirty business.

    Parent
    Don't think I need anything from you ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:36:16 AM EST
    but the Obama camp will need a dedicated, 24/7 rapid response team just to deal with Biden's baggage and gaffes.

    Parent
    Refute the Smears!!! (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by daryl herbert on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:28:05 PM EST
    SMEAR: Joe Biden's son took $2M from MBNA while Biden was supporting legislation MBNA supported.

    FACT: it was only $1M.

    SMEAR: Joe Biden plagiarized Neil Kinnock's speeches

    FACT: Also, he's sorry, it was accidental, and he credited Neil Kinnock, even though no one remembers that.

    SMEAR: Joe Biden plagiarized while he was in law school and graduated in the bottom half of his class.

    FACT: Joe Biden has a higher IQ than you.

    SMEAR: Joe Biden said that you can't work for 7-11 unless you have an Indian accent

    FACT: Joe Biden said you can't "go in" to a 7-11 unless you have a "slight" accent.  Also, Joe Biden's frankness on the subject of race is a refreshing change.

    SMEAR: Joe Biden said that Obama wasn't qualified to be president, and John McCain is.  Further, Biden and McCain used to be friends.

    FACT: Joe Biden said that Obama was "clean."

    SMEAR: Hillary Clinton is more qualified than Senator Biden and received more votes.

    FACT: WWII ended like 60 years ago.  Also, Senator Obama never seriously considered Hillary for the VP spot.  Otherwise, he might have chosen her.

    REFUTE THE SMEARS!  FORWARD THIS TO YOUR FRIENDS TODAY!!!  OBAMA 24/7 RAPID RESPONSE TEAM

    Parent

    Biden's baggage would fill a whole train... (none / 0) (#78)
    by alexei on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:08:41 PM EST
    if not more.  BTW, to compare one vote to all the years of Biden supporting the Credit card corporations against the best interests of his constituents, is ridiculous.

    And he didn't just vote for the bankruptcy bill - he was a sponsor, lobbied for it and lobbied against every one of the amendments that would have made it less onerous, including, amendments that would exempt veterans and current military (even those in Iraq) and save people from having to sell their houses because of medical bills.  Quite a difference from voting wrong on a bill.

    Parent

    Voting for the Iraq war (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Saul on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:12:59 AM EST
    is also baggage.  Obama ran the majority of his campaign on the fact that he opposed the war and that Hilary showed bad judgment in voting for the resolution to go to war.  So how does he square that with the voters  since Biden voted with Hilary on the resolution.

    Easy. He did it because Saddam (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:20:48 AM EST
    was an evil guy. She did it to look tough. Voila!

    Parent
    Almost ... (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:27:22 AM EST
    he did it because he's a mixed-up, confused old guy.

    She did it because she's evil.

    Parent

    Sort of ... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Mole Hill on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 05:07:29 PM EST
    ... he did it because he's a good-natured and befuddled man who is ready to serve in a befuddled sort of way and who has promised to "question" The New President with befuddling questions.

    Clinton did it because she's evil and has an evil husband.

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#79)
    by alexei on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:13:24 PM EST
    I am assuming this is snark, otherwise I can't help but laugh at this.

    Evil guys must be removed by US military power even those that were made by US military power.  LOL!  And this is the politically savvy and experienced foreign policy guru?

    Parent

    Hmmmm, I wonder if the passing of time (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:13:16 AM EST
    hasn't caused Biden to finally mature and grow and inspite of the mistakes of his youth he is NOW ready to lead?  I crack myself up.

    Well, it's certainly never been a secret... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:19:33 AM EST
    ... that Biden's in bed with the credit card industry, whether or not he's got any financial ties to it. I assume Obama made a conscious decision that he can live with that.

    Apparently it was a secret (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:27:24 AM EST
    that his son was working for a credit card company.

    Parent
    How bout that vetting? (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:35:43 AM EST
    Team Obama did a heckuva job. After excoriating Clinton and tossing Cleland for his ties to stem cell research Obama unveils that his VP candidate quite probably was swayed by ties to industry while voting. I wonder if he can use Biden as an example when pointing out the evil of lobbyists and special interests.

    Parent
    Biden's support of the Bankrupcy Bill (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:21:19 AM EST
    Was very disconcerting.  Its effects are being felt deeply in MI right now.  Anyway, hopefully Obama can overcome Biden's bone head vote.  I don't think it will really hurt the ticket in terms of Obama talking about this issue (at least that is what I hope).

    It will if they try to paint Biden as a middle (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:32:49 AM EST
    class champion on the economy. Furthermore this looks horrible for Obama, who as some have pointed out, has made it a point to spurn people with connections to lobbyists(Max Cleland anyone).

    I find it completely credible that one of the reasons Team Obama picked Biden is because there is a chance his choice could lead to revenue now that the small donor stream has died out. Just like I don't believe for a minute Obama just changed his mind on FISA. Change looks an awful lot the same ol' thing(and I have never been into compulsive liars).

    Parent

    Didn't he make over 50 million last (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:52:34 AM EST
    Month?

    Parent
    he was (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:59:53 AM EST
    supposed to raise $100 million to be competetive with the GOP. He also has an extremely high burn rate. I think he burned over $50 million in July.
    he outspent McCain 2-1 iirc and only made his poll numbers go lower.

    Parent
    McCain (none / 0) (#75)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:38:04 PM EST
    Grossly outspent Obama in this last 2 months.  He had to (he had money to burn that he couldn't use in the general)

    Parent
    yeah (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:01:19 AM EST
    How'd that compare to the previous months and is 50 million enough when you aren't using public funding(because you've flip flopped on it)?

    The "new" coalition appears to have some trouble brewing in paradise.

    Parent

    If my math is correct (none / 0) (#74)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:36:35 PM EST
    He will have 200 million for the general election.  He has over 100 million right now (I think given the math) and will defniitly get at least 2 more 50 million plus months.  He will do okay.  But I am glad you are trying to sew doubt, using that tired republican talking point.

    Are you going to be on this board after the convention and talking about Obama being weak because he didn't get the 15 point bounce the Republican party said he was going to get?

    Parent

    Well, it's not much of a response, (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:25:02 AM EST
    but I think Tom Carper is even more of a shill for his hometown industry.

    Not much of a response is right (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:26:44 AM EST
    Carper is terrible.

    Parent
    Biden's heaviest baggage..... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:25:10 AM EST
    is his atrocious drug war record...not sure how that jives with "change".  Smells like the same old sh*t to me...proof Obama will play ball at the expense of American's life, liberty and happiness.

    If you feel like getting worked up, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:34:51 AM EST
    go read the Tommy Chong thread(8/23).

    Parent
    Checked it out.... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:58:40 AM EST
    and got worked up....you nailed it.

    Biden is the one abusing and exploiting the people...not Tommy.  Tommy Chong brings us joy, Biden only pain.

    Parent

    Eh (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:29:36 AM EST
    I think it's funny that everything I've read on the internet (mostly from Sirota and others) about this issue will now be reduced to a little "baggage."

    It's been the big joke of the last 72 hours.

    Obama didn't just thumb his nose at Clinton.

    He thumbed his nose at the progressive netroots, only they're so blinded by Clinton rage to realize it.

    Yet.

    It should have been Feingold.

    you want me to be outraged? (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:35:31 AM EST
    I always said the lobbyist crap from Obama and Edwards was pure BS.

    Parent
    I don't group you with Sirota, BTD (none / 0) (#36)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    The difference between you and Sirota is like the difference between Obama and Clinton.  Nothing could be clearer.

    The word "baggage" still gives me a chuckle.  

    Parent

    how will Anita Hill vote in November? (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by Josey on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:32:41 AM EST
    Biden and his 'good old boy' club sure knocked her around!
    I'll never forget those clowns harassing her.

    I've no doubt (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:42:43 AM EST
    she'll be asked.

    Parent
    Yes, the Biden as VP makes me remember his (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by FLVoter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43:00 AM EST
    horrible performance during the Thomas Hearing.  To me, Obama made the worse choice possible. Biden has so much baggage he must own a controlling interest in Samsonite.

    Parent
    Here's a partial ... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:53:45 AM EST
    display of Biden's baggage.

    Parent
    It's baggage (5.00 / 6) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:38:50 AM EST
    that the common person, immersed in credit card debt, would understand.

    Hard to sell Biden as a champion of the (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:17:04 AM EST
    middle class or someone who will help folks who are struggling during this troubling economy.

    Parent
    Champion of the banks.... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:44:45 AM EST
    and the prison-indutrial complex, Biden is.

    Champion of the working and middle class?  That would be Ralph Nader...

    Parent

    So true ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:46:45 AM EST
    so true.

    Parent
    I'm wating for the connection to (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:46:28 AM EST
    the whole Dickie Scruggs thing in Mississipi to get some coverage.

    For the Law Blog's money, the most interesting characters to emerge from this scandal are Steve Patterson (pictured, left) and Tim Balducci (pictured, right), both charged alongside Scruggs. Patterson (not a lawyer) and Balducci (a lawyer) started Patterson Balducci in New Albany, Miss., about a year ago. Last week, Balducci pleaded guilty to a bribery charge and has agreed to cooperate with the feds. His conversations with the judge were taped and he's expected to testify when the case goes to trial next year.

    Patterson and Balducci had grand ambitions -- they wanted their firm to become a leading Democratic lobbying shop/law firm with a reach stretching beyond Mississippi, according to people familiar with their plans. They opened an office in Washington, D.C., and lured a number of influential Mississippi Democrats to affiliate with their firm, including Bill Allain, the former Mississippi governor.

    SNIP

    Most recently, Balducci and Patterson had thrown their weight behind the 2008 presidential campaign of Sen. Joseph Biden, whom Mr. Patterson got to know while working for Sen. Stennis. Indeed, Balducci had a Biden bumper sticker on his red Ford truck, according to someone who rode in it. Their bet on Biden was that he wouldn't win the presidency but would become Secretary of State under a Hillary Clinton administration, according to two people familiar with their thinking.

    In August, Balducci, Patterson, Allain, Scruggs, and two others hosted a Oxford fundraising event for Biden. Employees of Patterson Balducci have contributed about $26,000 to the Biden campaign, according to fundraising records. (Click here for an invitation to the fundraiser and here, here, and here for info on the Biden contributions; and here for info on Scruggs contributions.)

    The Law Blog has asked the Biden campaign several times for comment on his connection to Patterson Balducci but has not heard back.

    I suspect that we are going to be hearing a lot more about Biden's ties to the corporate lobbying world, and it's going to be hard for Obama to defend it, based on his alleged allergy to lobbyists.

    Obama (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:48:20 AM EST
    threw away everything he has campaigned on for the last 9 months with the Biden pick. It's just another big flip flop or waffle--take your pick. The only thing that's been a constant in their campaign is blame shifting and CDS.

    Parent
    Seems (5.00 / 4) (#39)
    by tek on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:50:13 AM EST
    to me that between Obama and Biden they support almost every issue they criticize McCain for.  Yup, the people running the Democratic Party this year really have their groove on.

    What a joke this thing is.  

    McCain v Biden.... (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:50:19 AM EST
    ....the problem here is that McCain can easily walk away from his vote -- he can say that he thought it was the right thing to do, and that obviously the law needs to be fixed, and get away with it.  America is still "pro-business", and McCain can frame his vote as a "pro-business" vote.

    Biden, on the other hand, is stuck with the image of supporting the bill for the "special interests."  

    Besides, (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by chel2551 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:54:57 AM EST
    McCain's a republican.  I don't expect to like what he does or the way he votes.

    But I expect different behavior from a democrat, or, at least, I used to.

    Parent

    The GOP's Biden pushback... (5.00 / 4) (#51)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:02:41 AM EST
    Biden was picked for one reason only -- to reassure the extremely large number of voters who recognize that Obama is a dangerous combination of willfulness/hubris and inexperience.   The Biden message was "Don't worry, Obama respects and will listen to people who are more experienced than he is."

    The GOP pushback is designed to send the message "You can't trust Obama.  Joe Biden is the personification of everything that Obama said he was against since he's been running for President.  Obama thinks you are too stupid to realize this, but you're not."

    Funny how the Obama camp and media (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Josey on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:08:41 AM EST
    "explain" the Biden pick as someone who will boost Obama's "lack of foreign policy experience" - when in reality it's to boost his lack of experience in ALL areas.
    Many voters are hesitant to turn America over to a community organizer!

    Parent
    He oughtta unroll out his (none / 0) (#61)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:16:14 AM EST
    whole cabinet now(and i'd make sure Bill or Hill was a member by the way in my rollout). At least he still has a hope of a snowball's chance with his transparency platform. I don't think they've totally screwed that up yet.

    Parent
    But - (none / 0) (#68)
    by jamawani on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:25:20 AM EST
    Do you think it will be effective?

    Will the "Biden brings experience and expertise to the team" message win out in the media?
    Or will it be "Biden underscores Obama's lack of experience"?

    Or will the Veep choice fade from view overnight -
    And, if so, where will that leave the Obama campaign?

    Parent

    New to TL - (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by jamawani on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:05:18 AM EST
    Because there are few places remaining where people who are baffled by the direction of the Dem Party can say anything without being trolled out of existence.

    Biden-(D-MBNA) ??
    Hasn't that label been around for years in the progressive blogosphere?  No longer.  You would think that Biden's greatest shortcoming is his hairline from the way some Obama supporters coo.

    I am profoundly disappointed that after 8 devastating years of Bushco, the best the Dems can come up with is the least experienced major party candidate in modern electoral history and a shill for the credit card industry.  

    It's Green Party for me.

    That is your right, of course (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Lahdee on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:08:17 AM EST
    Is the Green Party devoid of baggage?

    Parent
    of course not... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:10:35 AM EST
    but its like comparing a shaving kit bag to a steamer trunk.  Both are "baggage", but there is a huge difference.  

    Parent
    Nope - (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by jamawani on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:15:43 AM EST
    Baggage comes in all colors.  (Colours in Canada)
    But whenever I read the Green Party platform, I find myself saying,
    "Yep. Right. Absolutely."

    So this year is a perfect year to vote my principles -
    Seeing as how they have been tossed aside by the Dems.

    It's more than Obama's FISA vote and Biden's credit cards.
    The Obama campaign has played the sexism and homophobia cards repeatedly - then hidden behind Janus-faced campaign statements.

    Biden is just the icing on the cake.

    Parent

    apparently - (none / 0) (#11)
    by Josey on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:25:38 AM EST
    while Biden was getting his ducks in a row in 2006 to run for president - he tried to hide his lobbyist son.

    Biden's son & brother involved in lawsuits -
    WaPo
    http://tinyurl.com/6gp5l5

    Another opportunity for Team Obama (none / 0) (#20)
    by wasabi on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:34:35 AM EST
    This is just another opportunity for Team Obama to stress that they have the wisdom, just like Lincoln, to bring in as advisors (or VP), formal rivals.  As Obama said, "I want somebody who is going to be able to challenge my thinking and not simply be a yes person when it comes to policymaking."

    Or you could call it baggage.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:38:06 AM EST
    Yeah, bring up former rivals.......that won't get anybody thinking why the heck didn't he pick Hillary.

    Parent
    Well <em> that </em> particular rival (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by rooge04 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:53:53 AM EST
    almost beat him and makes him look bad. So only really rivals that don't threaten the status quo.

    Parent
    It's (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:38:09 AM EST
    pretty obvious with articles like this and other info that came out over the weekend that picking Biden is a hail mary desperation move.

    That or the fact that his real preference had some fatal problem at the last minute and he ended up getting stuck with Biden.

    Until Biden was announced, (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43:55 AM EST
    I thought Obama was gonna pull some winner out of his hat. I couldn't imagine who but I was hopeful. Silly me.

    Parent
    But if they really were desperate ... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:45:00 AM EST
    they should have picked Hillary.

    Parent
    Don't you (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    know? They would rather lose than put Hillary on the ticket. That's how inept they are.

    Parent
    I have come to the conclusion (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:57:04 AM EST
    that they want to lose. There is no other clear explanation for it. Ineptness doesn't even begin to cover dissing two states and picking the candidate that exited with a weaker showing than he went in, picking Biden over Clinton, having Bill Clinton give a speech on why you'll be a swell CiC and Sebelius give a speech on the economy, holding hands with the GOP when they are the most vulnerable.......The list just seems to go on and on. We have to be trying to lose, it's the only excuse I can think of for this.

    Parent
    naw....they want to win... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:08:18 AM EST
    ...but for the wrong reasons -- they want to win to prove that they can.   But if they lose, its no biggie to them --- it won't be their fault if Americans are so stupid that they don't elect Obama.  And everyone involved in the Obama campaign will make out just fine -- book contracts, TV gigs, "consulting" businesses.... in fact, losing elections has been the best way for professional Democrat to get ahead.  

    Parent
    Ooooh! (none / 0) (#64)
    by jamawani on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:19:23 AM EST
    That hurts!

    However, you are right.
    The Dems are poised to lose, yet again.

    Parent

    Hillary Clinton (none / 0) (#73)
    by justonevoice on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 11:32:25 AM EST
    is not the candidate of desperation.  She's the candidate of experience.

    Parent
    or team O and the Dem party (none / 0) (#31)
    by cawaltz on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43:37 AM EST
    are idiots with too much ego to walk back complaints about Clinton and eat humble pie to get her on the ticket.

    I wonder if Clinton's library list would have been more of a liability then this will be?

    Parent

    Dems often rail against (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Josey on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:52:11 AM EST
    the "revolving door"...

    >>>>In late 1996, the company hired the younger of Mr. Biden's two sons, Robert Hunter Biden, known as Hunter, who had just graduated from Yale Law School, as a lawyer. The company promoted Mr. Biden to senior vice president by early 1998. And after the younger Mr. Biden worked at the Commerce Department on electronic commerce issues from 1998 to 2001, MBNA hired him back on a monthly consulting contract to advise it on such issues, aides said.

    Parent

    How about this? (none / 0) (#30)
    by cmugirl on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43:30 AM EST
    Byron York of The National Review (yes, yes, I know)covered an Obama rally in South Carolina in January where Obama said this:

    "People don't say what they mean when they've been in Washington too long," he said, with a look of mock amazement. "You know, Senator Clinton, during that same debate, somebody asked her about the bankruptcy bill. She voted for a bankruptcy bill in 2001, that the credit cards and the banks had been pushing, that made it more difficult for folks who have been trapped in these unscrupulous loans, where you get zero interest and then suddenly it pops up to 30 percent. And the credit card companies, even though they are sending these things in the mail constantly every day they don't want you to get out from under that debt. So Tim Russert or somebody asked Senator Clinton, `Why did you vote for that bill?' And she said, `Well, I voted for it, but I hoped it didn't pass.' What does that mean?

    I guess it means that Joe Biden voted for it and hoped it would pass.

    Something tells me there's got to be a video on YouTube somewhere.

    Obama voted AGAINST (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Josey on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:02:51 AM EST
    capping credit card interest rates! - (and Biden and MBNA smile.)
    That emerged during the debates and betcha McCain will capitalize on that.


    Parent
    Sure there's baggage (none / 0) (#54)
    by Lahdee on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:06:40 AM EST
    aplenty. I just wonder how the republicans are going to turn Biden's MBNA support against the message of economic change and middle class support espoused by the Obama campaign.

    On Baggage (none / 0) (#59)
    by Stellaaa on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:12:30 AM EST
    Seems the only Clinton baggage they want are her supporters all her other "baggage" stinks and the other pol baggage comes up smelling like roses.  

    All Pol have baggage (none / 0) (#70)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:26:56 AM EST
    And they all work with lobbyists. But with the number of bankruptcies and foreclosures the country is dealing with the last couple of years, this baggage isn't what the Democrat's need in an election that will be won or lost on the economy. Again they've openned themselves up for problems they didn't have to deal with.

    Over Analysis (none / 0) (#71)
    by dissenter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 10:31:56 AM EST
    I think on the blogs and in the media there is a general tendency to over analyze all of this. I think Americans are going to go with their gut feeling on Obama and I think that feeling is they just don't trust him.

    The 527s haven't even started in on him yet but based on my casual conversations with friends and acquaintances who vote but don't obsess on politics, most aren't comfortable with him. It ranges from they think he is a Muslim, to he is inexperienced, to he annoys me, to I hate all his commercials on television and I am sick of my phone ringing to I don't like his wife. The number one thing I hear however is "he scares me".

    I don't think Biden will make a difference one way or the other.

    Baggage | 81 comments (81 topical)

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