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Incurable CDS

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:30:43 PM EST
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Josh Green making Andrew Sullivan look sane:

The crowd was fired up. But the excitement faded quickly. Clinton didn't seem angry or betrayed or entitled or any of the things that critics have attributed to her—she seemed merely unenthused, and so did the audience, his crowd and hers.

Heh. I take it Josh is mad that no one gave a crap about his big "memos" scoop. Also, he has to be worried. His only schtick is Clinton Hate and, after tonight, at least for the rest of this campaign, he'll have nothing to say. He's sort of a junior Carl Bernstein now.

Speaking for me only

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    Incurable CDS | 123 comments (123 topical)

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    'Memos scoop'? Who's Josh Green? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:19 PM EST


    Oh, that Josh Green (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:36:04 PM EST
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Parent
    Speaking of ZzzzzzzzzzzzS (5.00 / 7) (#35)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:05:38 PM EST
    Um, this Josh Green is as silly as Harry Shearer! Did you all catch what he wrote on HUFF PO about Hills speech?

    http://tinyurl.com/HarryShearerONhrcSpeech

    Is it possible Hillary Clinton hasn't read or heard about what happened to New Orleans? Or was it just not on her poll-tested list of bases to touch on her home-run trot following a triple?

    I mean WHAT the HELL was he talking about????
    Should Hillary have also discussed The Death Penality, I mean, sheeesh, that's a bad thing and important too and she had 20minutes to talk, she should have squeezed it in! Should she have thrown in some stuff about the rising cost of Arugula? I mean c'mon, what the hell, did she not know its happening in grocery stores across the land!? Or what--- did her Pollsters just blow it off after it tested badly?

    These CDS wanks, wow...wow.

    Parent

    You can thank Jesse Jackson Jr (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:17:52 PM EST
    for the ridiculous post by Harry. It was JJjr speaking in his capacity as Obama's National Co-Chair that said Hillary didn't cry over Katrina victims and now apparently the racist even left them out of her speech.

    Parent
    You know, I'm from NOLA (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by angie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:41:39 PM EST
    And I am starting the resent the h3ll out of people who keep using NOLA as some political chip (or stick) whenever its suits.  Yeah, yeah, I know Harry Shearer lives in NOLA, but he isn't FROM NOLA and he needs to STFU and stop acting like he is a spokesperson for NOLA. Yes, I love NOLA (even more now that it is gone -- and it is gone) and I'm sadden by the slow, endless so-called "recovery," but to not mention NOLA in a speech (or to accuse someone of not "crying for Katrina") is in no way shape or form a valid criticism.

    Parent
    Hillary should have (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:41:56 PM EST
    created a list of Democratic issues and just read the darn thing.....In 20 minutes, she could have read off a lot of bullet points.  Shoulda done a PowerPoint too

    Parent
    Don't forget (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:47:36 PM EST
    She should have also read a list of Obama's outstanding personal attributes.  No doubt the list should start with the long walks on the beach the two frequently enjoy.

    And she should have read a list of all the things that make McCain crappy.

    And she should have read a list of all the statements she retracts from the primary.

    And she should have gotten down on her knees and begged forgiveness from KO and Kos.

    But she didn't because she is TEH EVUL.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#62)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:26:50 PM EST
    Worth a post.

    Parent
    Too bad. Harry Shearer lost it, too? (none / 0) (#88)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:57:46 PM EST
    Very likely he had this particular subject all ready  for publication. Who knows. Clearly, No matter how successful the speech, how special this moment at the convention, Hillary Clinton had to be criticized.

    And that is too bad because Harry Shearer has been fabulous in film. Sigh.

    Parent

    What will Harry do if Obama fails to (none / 0) (#91)
    by ding7777 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:01:32 PM EST
    mention Katrina?

    Parent
    Did he write about the Black State of the Union? (none / 0) (#101)
    by Manuel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:18:22 PM EST
    I don't follow his work so I don't know if he wrote about Hillary coming to NO in the middle of the primary.

    Parent
    WOW! Snap, BTD... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:33:04 PM EST
    Josh Green is a junior Carl Bernstein...

    Two birds with one stone. You've always been good, but now you're getting GREAT!

    Parent

    A wannabe Jimmy Olsen with CDS (none / 0) (#27)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:52:37 PM EST
    and he thinks Hillary is Lois Lane

    Parent
    Mini-Me Green and Major-Me Bernstein are (none / 0) (#72)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:41:36 PM EST
    to be avoided at all cost.

    I actually did see Green yesterday morning on TV. He spelled out all the important tasks Hillary absolutely had to accomplish with her speech (Yup, he def. belonged to the Blame Hillary club).

    Everything depended on her speech now acc. to Green. Dem unity, Obama's successful GE, AND her own, Bill's and Obamas future careers ...

    I remember thinking, this pundit really lost it.

    Parent

    It's like repeatedly falling (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by Emma on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:35:27 PM EST
    through the looking glass.  You watch Hillary.  Everything seems cool.  Then the pundits start punditing.

    It is almost (1.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Jgarza on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:25:39 PM EST
    like there are prefab commentary and stories, and they just run with it no matter what.

    Parent
    She was great. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:45:26 PM EST
    Best speech i've ever seen her make.  Total professional.

    Parent
    You must not have gotten the memo (none / 0) (#59)
    by BernieO on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:21:23 PM EST
    I have heard quite a few pundits on TV and NPR complaining she did not say she thought he was ready to be commander-in-chief.

    Parent
    "They" were lucky she did what (5.00 / 4) (#69)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:35:13 PM EST
    she did. It was her choice to make that speech and a damn great speech it was. As someone mentioned earlier (I think BTD), what a way to remind us who we are as Dems. She said his name 10 times, isn't that enough? When Teddy conceded in 1980 how many times did he say Jimmy Carter's name? Maybe it would have been enough if she got down in a kneeling postion, clasped her hands and like Pelosi, thanked god for Obama!!!!

    Parent
    Nothing she does will ever (none / 0) (#77)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:43:11 PM EST
    be enough for the deeply afflicted.

    Parent
    Those are Republican talking points (none / 0) (#63)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:27:03 PM EST
    they were trotting them out last night evidently they thought they had traction.  If that's the worst the republicans can say about her terrific speech we're good.

    Parent
    Last Night (5.00 / 15) (#4)
    by BDB on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:36:09 PM EST
    was destined to bring out the CDS. They want her broken and dead and she's clearly not.  She's going to be a political force in this country for a long time.  If Green and others have a problem with that, they need to get over it.  Because it's pretty clear by now that she is impervious to them (which is one of the reasons they hate her).

    Absolutely (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:41:09 PM EST
    If they thought this election was going to purge the Clintons from the party, they are sadly mistaken and the CDS will rise to a new level. does not seem to phase Hillary or her supporters though, so let the CDSers fume away.

    Parent
    You heard Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Manuel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:22:05 PM EST
    Keep going.

    Parent
    Or is it 'faze'? (none / 0) (#10)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:41:54 PM EST
    I've never written the word down before!

    Parent
    fazed...unfazed (none / 0) (#31)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:00:57 PM EST
    ...phased out...

    Parent
    their CDS (5.00 / 10) (#15)
    by ccpup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:44:17 PM EST
    and almost myopic obsession with her is what HELPS her have power.  

    They literally hand her the bullhorn she uses to push for those Democratic ideals she holds dear.  If they stop mentioning her and talking about her endlessly, wondering what she's doing, what she's going to say, what she really thinks, so on and so forth, the bullhorn isn't as loud and her message might get lost.

    Might.

    I mean, this IS Hillary we're talking about here.  And nothing -- certainly not some over-paid blowhard -- is going to distract her from what she wants to achieve.

    I do find it funny that she is, through no fault of her own, effortlessly upstaging Obama at "his" own Convention!  

    Well, they DID want Unity, right?  :-)

    Parent

    I was again (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:36:43 PM EST
    amazed at her ability to make her points while looking at the audience, moving around the stage, skipping all the uhs and ahs.  Surely she could not have been depending on a teleprompter or notes; I know from experience with notes that there is a real danger of not finding your way back to the correct place.  If that had been a movie or a TV sitcom, they'd have broken pretty often for her to review her lines....

    Parent
    id did seem effortless (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:41 PM EST
    didnt it.  every body was happy.  except Michelle.
    I admit that look on her face in the early shots had me LMAO.


    Parent
    You nailed it BDB. (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:45:46 PM EST
    [I]t's pretty clear by now that she is impervious to them (which is one of the reasons they hate her).

    And one of the reasons millions admire her, definitely including YT.

    Parent
    BDB (5.00 / 3) (#33)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    You're exactly right -- they want her broken in spirit, abject, defeated and depressed.

    Too bad for them she cannot be broken.

    Parent

    Impervious...I love it... (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Berkshireblue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:42:23 PM EST
    that's exactly it. She's got it hands down. I found her whole performance flawless and one no rational person could criticize. However, the pervasive CDS always arises but now I see HRC with her ability, perhaps imbued by pantsuits, to be impervious to it and to it's carriers, like they don't exist, she takes no notice of them and continues, unflappable.

    Parent
    Mr. Green, (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by TheRealFrank on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:36:46 PM EST
    I'm afraid your symptoms have gotten worse. Especially the distortion of reality.

    A change of career might do you good. I recommend something more related to your skills, like janitor, since you're nothing but a crap-peddler already.

    Maybe he couldn't see through (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:37:33 PM EST
    his Chief Inspector Dreyfus-style uncontrolled blinking.

    Thank God people could see and hear with their own (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:40:18 PM EST
    eyes and ears. This kind of "reporting" really scares me.  

    It's actually the readers who are going (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:43:41 PM EST
    "boy, that's EXACTLY right" who are scarey.

    Parent
    BTD (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    like you said, Obama's supporters are absolutely his worse advocates (you and Jeralyn excepted). It makes me wonder what is it about Obama that he attracts these stalker types as fans?

    Obama enshrines ... (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:48:10 PM EST
    the all words, do nothing liberal.

    The kind with the right bumper-stickers, but the wrong resume.

    He makes them feel good about their failings, because he shares them.

    Parent

    not quite. (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:10:59 PM EST
    He's actually got a great resume for a 45 year old. The trouble is that he's running this year.  If a wavering voter is looking for an excuse not to vote for him they can easily find one.

    Be they conservatives out of love with the GOP looking for a solid Dem with a definable record or centrists looking for a long track record of borad experience or indeed a liberal looking for a real liberal for president...Obama is too blank for all of them ideologically.

    It's bizarro world when Kennedy is there lauding Obama on UHC and Biden is there as his wing man.  Kennedy wants UHC badly--like an NHS but always fails at it (Torpedoing Nixon's plan  in teh 70s was the most cynical moment looking back), and Biden is a very conservative Dem on healthcare policy, he even decried it as socialized healthcare in one debate.    So where does Obama stand there after seeing the Harry and Louise bullcrap. I really don't trust him on the issue from a left perspective. Obama's own behaviour in the campaign suggests he views UHC as an optioanl elective.

    Parent

    not to mention the bankruptcy bill (none / 0) (#82)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:47:47 PM EST


    Parent
    Obama has more foreign policy (none / 0) (#83)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:49:25 PM EST
    experience than any other President first taking office over the last 32 years, except for one.

    Obama has been on the Foreign Relations Committee for four years--which is more than most of the Presidents during the last 32 years....

    Remember, Bill had no foreign policy experience and had been the Governor of Arkansas for 12 years, the same amount of time that Obama has been in public office.

    Good foreign policy is due to intelligence, outlook and judgment....

    The issue for Democrats is no longer whether Hillary has more experience but whether 47 year old Obama has enough to pass the threshold, and historically he does....

    Parent

    I could not give a flying fook (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:58:15 PM EST
    about the resume.  I simply said he's got a good resume for someone his age.

    Foreign Policy (it's too arbitrary and dependent upon random events--they are all always winging it.) is secondary to me and it pales in comparison to healthcare commitments. btw I've seen the british FO and civvie admin of NATO from the inside as an intern.
    You can't base a government on the shifting sands of foreign policy.


    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#93)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:05:31 PM EST
    I tend to think a President has more control over foreign policy than the economy.  And, McCain can do great damage there with his bellicose re-living of Vietnam across the globe.

    I did want to make the experience point...since so many short-change Obama on that score.

    Health care will be a fight no matter what.  Bill's 1993 tax increase, which eliminated the federal budget deficits for the first time in decades, passed by one or two votes in the Democratically controlled House, and was tied in the Democratically controlled Senate, with Gore breaking the tie.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:14:06 PM EST
    we already have had the election and Obama won? Who would have thunk it?

    The spin about fp experience really doesn't go anywhere since lot of the people you are counting were governors who won the presidency. Obama doesn't have much experience period. The polls don't show him passing that threshold though and that's the problem. The judgement argument went down the drain when Rev. Wright showed up on the scene. I don't know why he didn't trash that arguement and come up with another one.

    Parent

    Posted this before--for you? (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Molly Pitcher on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:30:30 PM EST
    "Clinton ... enrolled at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., where he majored in international affairs.... As a junior and senior he earned money for school expenses by working as an intern for the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, which was chaired by Senator J. William Fulbright, an Arkansas Democrat. Clinton greatly admired Fulbright, who was a leading critic of United States involvement in the Vietnam War (1959-1975). Clinton was also deeply moved by African Americans' fight for equality in the 1960s. In April 1968, a few weeks before Clinton graduated, the assassination of civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr., set off rioting in several American cities, including Washington, D.C. Clinton volunteered to work with the Red Cross and took clothing and food to people whose homes had been burned in the riots."

    Article goes on to mention the Rhodes scholarship, which he held for 2 years in Oxford, UK.

    Parent

    bullsh*t (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by ccpup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:38:47 PM EST
    This is a freakin' pop fly into center field when it comes to refuting it, but I'll go ahead:

    How many meetings has he held as Chairman of this Foreign Policy Subcommittee?

    Zero.

    What, exactly, has he DONE on this Foreign Policy Subcommittee.

    Absolutely squat.

    What, seriously, gives him this vaunted foreign policy experience you tout?

    Nothing.

    He and the DNC are hoping the ecstatic, clueless cheers of those 75,000 at Invesco Field and the fireworks after his speech will disguise the fact that he's come to the job interview without a resume to back anything up.

    Judging by his sliding poll numbers, my guess is it won't.

    Parent

    Subcommittee (none / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:44:28 PM EST
    He has held meetings of the subcommitte.  No, the answer is not zero.

    Further, Biden, who chairs the Foreign Relations Committee, said that he handled all relevant issues at the full committee level. Obama has been on that committee for close to 4 years.

    He has more foreign policy experience than did Carter, Reagan, Bill or Bush II.   For Democrats, I would think the issue is doe she have enough to be President, and given the what past Presidents had, the answer would be yes...

    The issue for Democrats is no longer does Hillary have more experience than Obama....but does Obama have enough.....

    Parent

    then why did he respond (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by ccpup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:08:58 PM EST
    during a debate, when he was asked why he had held no meetings as Chair of the subcommittee, that he had been "too busy"?  If he had held meetings, he could have responded with "No, I have held meetings and this is what they were about".

    Clinton, Reagan, Carter were all Governors.  And they never claimed to be foreign policy experts like Obama has.

    If you have a link to an article about the meetings he's held, I'd love to see it.  

    Parent

    He had held one meeting (none / 0) (#123)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:25:53 PM EST
    that I know of before Hillary raised the issue...He has since held another meeting.

    Here is a blurb on Obama holding a hearing in April 2008.

    I know he held at least one hearing on ambassadors....  

    Here is Biden responding to the criticism that Obama did not hold a hearing of the subcomittee on Afghanistan:

    Senator Joe Biden's office released the following statement:

    "The reason Senator Obama didn't chair a NATO and Afghanistan subcommittee hearing is because I did, as Chairman of the Committee. Sen. DeMint should know that when it comes to the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq, we hold those hearings at the full committee level," said Senator Joe Biden

    Hillary was clever in how she framed the issue:  any hearings on Afghanistan, not any hearings at all.

    Obama also held a hearing on Sam Fox's nomination to be ambassador to Belgium.  Fox helped fund the swiftboaters....Obama held a hearing on him and made sure the nomination was not confirmed.  Bush made a recess appoinment of Fox to get around Obama.....I think this in part how Obama schmoozed Kerry.

    Parent

    Obama statement re Fox (none / 0) (#124)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:34:15 PM EST
    Here is Obama's March 2007 statement regarding his committee's rejection of swiftboater Fox:

    The Bush administration today withdrew the nomination of Sam Fox as ambassador to Belgium.  Fox was a major donor to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign in 2004, and he failed to answer key questions about his involvement in the campaign in a European Affairs Subcommittee hearing this March.
    Senator Obama's statement on today's developments is below:



    Parent
    thank you (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by ccpup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 04:45:44 PM EST
    I was actually aware of those meetings, but had thought you were discussing meetings with more substance behind them.

    Unfortunately, a meeting or two on the appointment of Ambassadors isn't going to impress when the Subcommittee he Chairs has NATO and Afghanistan under it's jurisdiction.

    As far as bragging rights on Foreign Policy experience, it's an opportunity lost when it could have been -- and certainly, when he was appointed, was intended to be -- a way to appropriately beef up both his knowledge of World Affairs and his resume.  

    The divide voters may see between what he COULD have done with this Committee and what he actually DID with it may be difficult for him and his campaign to bridge.

    I do appreciate the responses and the links, though.  Thank you.

    Parent

    expanding on this... (none / 0) (#90)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:00:20 PM EST
    ...why did you bring Foreign policy into this?

    Parent
    Discussion re resume above... (none / 0) (#94)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:06:25 PM EST
    Just tossing in a short point...

    Parent
    stalker types as fans are attracted to (none / 0) (#28)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:54:15 PM EST
    his "message", that's what it is. A message that seems more like a game of TELEPHONE than anything else. As he said himself, he's a Blank Slate, so peeps simply scribble out whatever they want and then stick to it as if it's written in stone, um, because it is written and they wrote it there! Hillary however is "defined" and she's spent a lifetime carving out that description via ACTION. And others have spent decades whittling away her own description which leaves "confusion" for the masses. "Oh Gee, what should I think of her? OMG, I'm so confused. Okay, I hate her, she's bad bad bad!"

    But there is no confusion with Obama because in essence it's all made-up and make believe is so damn fun. Much funner than facts.

    Parent

    Which Convention Was He Watching? (5.00 / 14) (#11)
    by rdandrea on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:42:07 PM EST
    I'm a simple Obama supporter.  Not a Clinton basher, not a Clinton hater, just one of the other folks.  I didn't know what to expect last night, so I tuned in to Senator Clinton's speech.

    Clinton was perfect.  Fired up.  She got the crowd fired up.  Even the people who called into C-SPAN were fired up.

    Maybe Green couldn't see or hear well--it seems his head might have been up his behind.  Or, if Sen. Clinton and the crowd seemed unenthused to him, maybe he was just watching something different.

    That wasn't my own read of the speaker or the crowd at all.

    The crowd was unenthused? (5.00 / 10) (#12)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:42:33 PM EST
    Obama can only hope the crowd is that "unenthused" for him tomorrow night.

    CDS, to say the least. Hillary did her part, Bill will do his. It's up to Obama to sell himself to the American people. But the stage is already being set for the "Blame the Clintons!" show if Obama loses.

    I've never witnessed a spectacle like this campaign. The nominee isn't held responsible for a thing and his followers are the biggest bunch of whiners I've ever seen in my life.

    Can't you just feel the change?

    If you remember (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:46:57 PM EST
    The reason for Invesco field and 80,000 people in the audience was exactly for that reason. They were afraid the convention delegates wouldn't be enthusiastic enough during the acceptance speech.

    Maybe they were also concerned the convention floor would have too many empty seats.


    Parent

    But they're not worried (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:05:46 PM EST
    about filling up the stadium?

    Also, ix-nay on the Grecian columns.  Maybe it's supposed to resemble the White House portico, but it's a little too much like Obama's faux presidential seal.

    I can't read stuff like Green. It'll make me not vote for Obama.

    Parent

    Not reading Green, either (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by themomcat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:22:40 PM EST
    But it will take a lot more than not reading Green to get me to vote for Obama. HRC set the bar last night. "Hoping for Change" ain't gonna do it. Voters want specifics about how he will attain change. His so-called bipartisan message doesn't cut it either considering the Republican obstruction in the Senate. I caught a brief snippet of Brazile last night on CNN (yeah, I peaked) discussing the loss of the "American Dream" with Blitzer. She was inanely trying to say that with Obama Americans can go to bed and dream about hoping for the "American Dream". Huh???


    Parent
    Listening to Brazile (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by litigatormom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:26:21 PM EST
    also makes me not want to vote for Obama.

    She's a Class A moron.  Why on Earth did Al Gore make her his campaign manager?  And what has she done since then except make inane comments on TV? Another one of those failing upward folks, like Bob Shrum.

    I agree with you that Obama needs to deliver specifics. Alas, I already know the specific with John McCain, and it's terrifying.  Thus, Obama.  YMMV, but I'm hoping that Obama will ultimately realize he needs to run as a Democrat.

    Parent

    I can't vote for McCain, either (none / 0) (#70)
    by themomcat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:36:01 PM EST
    I am not going to sit home in November because there are too many important issues on the ballot in my district. The Republican who held the seat is not running and after 25 years the seat most likely will go back to a Democrat. I may be able to hold my nose but at this point, I most likely will leave the President choice blank. I live in a very blue state, as of now, so it may not be a problem.


    Parent
    Me too, bluest of blue for Pres votes... (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Berkshireblue on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:52:57 PM EST
    no worry here so can leave the top spot blank-never done that before but I guess I need a little act of rebellion.

    I have plenty of downballot votes to make like against the homophobic kooks trying to reverse the repeal of the 1913 law that said people can't get married in MA if it's not legal elsewhere so we won't have to deal with out of state gay people in addition to those already here. Yeah, our state has really fallen apart because of gay marriage and we wouldn't want to help the economy by making MA the go to for a great gay wedding.

    Parent

    Lovely. (5.00 / 5) (#66)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:30:24 PM EST
    Since the passing of FDR, the Dems have gone from offering Americans:

    1. The American Dream
    2. Hope for the American Dream
    3. Dreams about Hoping for the American Dream

    Is this an SNL skit?

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by themomcat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:40:28 PM EST
    Since you put it that way, it is pretty funny, in an inane sort of way.


    Parent
    As the Bard might say: (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:44:41 PM EST
    'Tis a thin line twixt tragedy and farce.

    Parent
    I don't think she realizes (none / 0) (#65)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:27:48 PM EST
    What she's saying sometimes.

    She's probably still sick of people in HER party saying it's their party.


    Parent

    If the GOP are clever... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:12:56 PM EST
    ...they will organize a violent moshpit at the foot of the stage. That would give Obama the concrete boots bounce.

    Parent
    Sheesh, folks. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:22:19 PM EST
    the point last night was that the message was good enough, nobody put their foot in anything or fell in a hole, and she found and used a message which did not require her  exactly to reverse herself on national tv on various statements she made (including those McC is running on tape loops), since there are those who would accuse her either of lying for the moment or flipflopping if she took any of them back, which might have a negative effect in future on her more devoted supporters.  A tight political high rope and she seems to have gotten over it, at least enough for the moment.

    She will have to deal with those loops at some point, but even she can't find the Ark of the Covenant,  rebuild New Orleans,  win the Iraq war, reinvent the wheel, and dictate a best seller in one speech, no matter how good she is, and nobody should expect anyone to in twenty five minutes.

    Parent

    If "Unenthused"="Fired up!" (5.00 / 12) (#21)
    by Mike H on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:47:50 PM EST
    She AND the crowd were as enthusiastic as any group at any political event this season.  More so.

    Reporting that she or the crowd was unenthused isn't bad reporting, it's flat-out lying.

    She made an amazingly strong and passionate case for the Democratic party, for Democratic values, and for the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama.

    Suggesting anything else is, again, flat-out lying.  Not a difference of opinion, but lies.  And the proof is out there on video for all to see, if they somehow missed it live.

    yes, BTD (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by ccpup on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:48:34 PM EST
    it seems like incurable CDS.  

    I say we have a two pronged attack to deal with it:  you pull the plug and I'll get on the phone with my florist to get the Condolence bouquet ready.

    It really seems like the most humane thing to do, doesn't it?

    Heh (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:57:07 PM EST
    I was talking to a conservative colleague at work today.  I said, did you see Hillary's speech last night, she really hit a home run.  He said, yeah, a home run for her but not Obama, right?  That's what the NY Post said, it was all about her.

    I told him, the best evidence that the Post is lying is that every single Obama supporter I know - even those who can't stand Hillary - had nothing but good things to say about the speech.  They couldn't have been happier.

    Yeah, but what else are they gonna say? he asked me.  Uh, I dunno, the same things they say about Hillary every other day?  He didn't seem to buy it.  The right-wing noise machine claims another victim.

    Ah, a solo homer. I gather your (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:07:05 PM EST
    colleague believes the batter who hits the solo homer failed by make sure the three preceding batters were also on base.  Funny.

    Parent
    the best evidence that the Post is lying (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:16:29 PM EST
    is that there is print on the page

    Parent
    People's expectations of Hillary (5.00 / 6) (#96)
    by denise on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:07:52 PM EST
    since she suspended her campaign have been way beyond the norm for the runner-up. She's been singled out with open disrespect and humiliation. Candidates in years past were not expected to forgo their nominations and roll calls, but she is. She didn't have to endorse him or campaign for him - male candidates have not always done so. She was expected to melt away and disappear, without a role in the convention or the future of the party - also a departure from custom.

    Now even her enthusiastic endorsement of Obama isn't good enough: she was expected to be worshipful. Has any male candidate ever been subjected to this?

    If the things that went on in the primaries weren't enough to convince me I couldn't vote for Obama, this unprecedented handling of the convention certainly was. I don't believe this crap would have been laid on a man.

    Parent

    Wishfull Thinking (none / 0) (#34)
    by CST on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    On his part maybe.  

    One thing I just thought of, what does this do to 2016 if Obama manages to pull this off.  I mean, she's younger than Joe Biden...  I really don't think the age factor will be nearly as big an issue as some people here think.

    Parent

    Biden (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:14:05 PM EST
    has no base of support. He's run twice and never won one primary. VP candidates have a record of losing. Perhaps Biden will be another Cheney who isn't interested in running. Besides, lots of things can happen between then and now--illness, personal problems etc.

    Parent
    If we had universal health care (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:58:59 PM EST
    do you think those hopelessly deranged by hate would take advantage of it and get their annual rabies shots?    

    No Rabies Shot (none / 0) (#40)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:07:56 PM EST
    for them, no, they like being rabid!

    and...
    FERAL is the new HIP

    Parent

    Even Craig Crawford's on the CDS bandwagon (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:13:43 PM EST
    Not really his style ... maybe his MSNBC contract is up for renewal.

    Alternative Reality (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by eric on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:29 PM EST
    From the article, "Consider how Clinton referred to John McCain as her "friend" (before slamming the expected GOP nominee on policy matters).".

    Does he not know that they are both in the Senate and it is pretty much obligatory to call even your most hated memory your friend?  Clueless.

    Parent

    ummm (none / 0) (#58)
    by eric on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:21:12 PM EST
    not memory, enemy.  That what you get when you type two different things at onces...

    Parent
    Biden said the same thing (none / 0) (#109)
    by Manuel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:30:54 PM EST


    Parent
    see here (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:13:51 PM EST
    Obama's probably a good dad and husband, he tends to stick by his freinds until they get deranged like Wright did. So he's got as much or as little character as you might want from him.

    My trouble has been the comitment to policy from the start.  He's really not willing to sacrifice a second term for UHC. That's the bottom line for me. He almost certainly doesn't see UHC as a core policy that everything else should be sacrificed for.

    Parent

    But he promised - 'guaranteed' - UHC (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:26:21 PM EST
    ... by the end of his first term.

    This is consistent with observations that he does not take promises seriously, and he has given little realistic attention to the work of Presidents (or other national policy change agents).

    Parent

    That may be true (none / 0) (#64)
    by BernieO on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:27:40 PM EST
    Did you notice that Crawford disappeared after he criticized his colleagues for their sexist treatment of Hillary? I bet he knows his career is on the line if he does not get on the CDS groupthink bandwagon.

    Parent
    Yet another profile in courage.... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:32:45 PM EST
    ..since he changed the "narrative" of Hillary's speech from a "home run" to "not fawning enough" he will be feeling the power of CDS. I predict that from now on he will be Hillary's biggest detractor.

    Parent
    What? (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by abfabdem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:15:05 PM EST
    Oldcity wrote in a prior entry in a thread on this site today (but it was full so I could not respond directly) something to the effect of "how could Obama have chosen Hillary when she called him unqualified?"  Uuuh, do you not know that Biden made that statement too and the Republicans are already making hay with his comment???  Why are different standards always applied to Clinton?  Last night on Air America Rachel Maddow was extolling how "endearing" and "humanizing" it was that Biden teared up a bit giving a speech.  I am clearly living in an alternative universe!

    My impression on the statements (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:49:51 PM EST
    is that Biden's were worse.  Clinton sort of left it open for Obama to make his own case (not in a positive way though) but Biden flat out said he wasn't ready and when asked said specifically he stands by his remarks.  JMO.

    Parent
    HillHaters: She must carry O's baggage AND luggage (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Ellie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:46:14 PM EST
    Apparently she's supposed to run his campaign and run the White House for no thanks or even acknowledgement and silently let him take credit for it.

    No wait -- scratch the last part.

    Not just silently let him rake in kudos for his work, but when asked, swear up and down that her efforts were done by HIM.

    And frankly, if she doesn't stick around to be publicly blamed and whipped for his f*ck-ups, that too will be on Bad Monster Lady's list of crimes.

    For my part, every time this kind of deranged thinking goes into play and isn't actively denounced and discouraged by Obama personally or by his campaign goes onto a new list of reasons not to vote for Obama.

    I'll share that with everyone in my circle of friends and family that have been following this "contest" closely and those who are tuning in with more interest now.

    Apologies,,,, (none / 0) (#85)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:52:34 PM EST
    I really like your posts, but you could remember to use Obama's name?   No abbreviations for the candidates.  (Especially JM for John McCain) ha!

    Parent
    WTF??? (none / 0) (#106)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:29:08 PM EST


    Parent
    I thought there was leeway in subject titles where (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ellie on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:34:09 PM EST
    ... abbreviations are allowed and "equal usage", eg, HRC and BO or BHO.

    Also, since discussions (an CDS expediently)shift between two Clintons, Sen and fmr Pres Clinton, I always apply "equal honorifics", equally specifying Sen Clinton and Sen Obama, Clinton and Obama, or HRC and BO.

    If Obama's own initials, full name, or partial name are always inappropriate fully apart from that same standard for other public officials, including HR Clinton, I'm at a complete loss as to how to even reference him short of majesty.

    I'm sorry to sound snarky; I'm not trying to be. I'm just not seeing where EQUAL respectful treatment in title usage and initials is yet another (pseudo) outrage against Obama.

    Parent

    I'm just referring to Jeralyn's request (none / 0) (#126)
    by waldenpond on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:36 PM EST
    She has been asking since April that commenters use the candidates names.

    Whole threads on it by Jeralyn and BTD.

    Parent

    Damned if they do (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by themomcat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:56:04 PM EST
    Damned if they don't. If the Clintons disappeared tomorrow or even yesterday, they would still be blamed for the failures of the DNC and Obama. Nothing satisfies CDS. Strangely, the only thing CDS does that is positive, it empowers HRC and her supporters. In 2012, even if she doesn't run for President, I am certain she will be re-elected to the Senate.
    the junior carl bernstein crack (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by sancho on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:02:07 PM EST
    made my day. hilarious. and sadly true--for carl and his, er, hillary-hate begotten son.

    He must have watched a different speech (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by DemForever on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:36:17 PM EST


    Josh Green is the (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:43:56 PM EST
    overwhelming exception for cryin out loud. The vast majority of people of the Clinton/Obama thing said the speech was a success. Even Ghandi, Jesus, and the friggin smurfs had critics and enemies. You can always find some jerk sitting from an ivory tower, and not just for the Clintons I might add. How sad- who the heck is Josh Green anyway, and how many people read The Atlantic? I don't know anybody in my daily life who cares about whoever this is and whatever published it thankfully. Hopefully this ragmag will go under.

    Well, actually... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:47:28 PM EST
    I read the Atlantic. Have been reading it for years. But it's not nearly the magazine it was when Jim Fallows was editing it.

    Parent
    That's the truth (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by addy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:50:14 PM EST
    What the hell happened over there? Did someone decide full-contrarian nitwitism was the way to go? Sorry, I thought Slate filled that berth.

    Parent
    Because of it anti-Hillary stance, (none / 0) (#107)
    by ding7777 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:30:22 PM EST
    I canceled the Washington Monthly...  the Atlantic is next.

    Parent
    So long as it's not Churchill's (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Salo on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:03:08 PM EST
    description of him eh?

    Parent
    Sorry your'e right- Gandhi. :) (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:50:03 PM EST


    Parent
    Don't knock the Smurfs! (none / 0) (#26)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 12:50:24 PM EST
    Thems fighting words.

    ;)

    Parent

    I bet this Josh Green person (none / 0) (#39)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:07:36 PM EST
    Bless his heart, even thinks the speech was a success.

    I think you're missing the point.

    And I don't think it's an overwhelming exception, either, Clinton asked her supporters what was more important to them, it's time for Obama to ask his supporters what was more to them, as well.


    Parent

    I don't know (none / 0) (#36)
    by bocajeff on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:05:40 PM EST
    I thought it was a good speech, but I would never use the word "great". I was actually more fired up seeing and hearing Ted Kennedy the night before.

    Meanwhile, everyone has a right to their opinion. If he didn't like the speech then so what?

    Guess what, no matter what Obama does tomorrow night I'm sure that most of the people here will not like it either. Is it ODS or just natural reactions people have?

    OTOH, I really liked future Sen. Warner from Virginia.

    THis is not about a personal opinion. (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by TheRealFrank on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:08:42 PM EST
    It's fine if he didn't like it himself. But then he goes on to claim that the audience didn't like it, which is total nonsense to any neutral viewer.


    Parent
    Thank you..... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:15:19 PM EST
    .....you answered that with more tact than I would have done.

    Parent
    Is it me (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:35 PM EST
    or was that point NOT obvious?

    Parent
    If he asks his supporters (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:11:19 PM EST
    What was more important to them, I will like it.

    I will say that I liked it.  I will disagree with those who wish to downplay the importance of Obama finally realizing that his exploitation of Clinton hatred divided the party.

    It will be a landmark statement and the party will unify once he asks his supporters what was more important to them.


    Parent

    Reading comprehension (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:20:07 PM EST
    is not your forte?

    Parent
    I thought Warner was kind of tentative. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:08:34 PM EST
    was his position the same as Obama's vis a vis the convention when Obama gave the keynote speech?  

    Parent
    junior Carl Bernstein (none / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:12:13 PM EST
    ouch
    but no, these guys will always have something to add.  
    -she didnt say once he was qualified
    -she didnt say once he would make a good president
    -etc
    -etc
    Im sure Hillary could care less.
    she knows she did what she needed to do last night.

    The GOP is already trying to (none / 0) (#68)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:34:17 PM EST
    capitalize on Hill's failure to say Obama is ready to lead. Could it be she realized that kind of stuff would have tainted her entire speech with insincerity?

    http://tinyurl.com/5ch4v9

    Parent

    maybe she simply said what she believed (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:46:52 PM EST
    and nothing more.

    Parent
    From his bio (none / 0) (#46)
    by eric on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:12:22 PM EST
    "Joshua Green . . . began his career as an editor at the satirical weekly, The Onion (back at a time when that failed to impress anyone)."

    Sounds about right.

    Poor Josh... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Larry Bailey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 01:42:07 PM EST
    ...never has a writer/observer been so wrong about so many different things. But, alas, this is what happens when a so-called professional lets personal biases intrude on his/her work. Suggest de-linking to that person's biases.

    Pitch Perfect (none / 0) (#95)
    by Michael Masinter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:06:26 PM EST
    Senator Clinton's speech was pitch perfect. The CDSers and the P.U.M.A.s will continue to complain and moan, but the rest of us democrats can be proud of both her and her candidate.

    Another CDSer (none / 0) (#97)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:09:47 PM EST
    In this "don't know whether to laugh or cry" department, kos buries praise of HRC's speech today but does say that if she'd hadn't voted for the war, she would have been a great nominee.

    But but but .. I thought she was a racist,lying, whining DLCer?  was that wrong?  Because I only get my news from kos.... /snark

    It's so wrong of him..... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    ...to send mixed messages to the children.

    Parent
    And yet Biden voted for the war, (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Landulph on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:34:40 PM EST
    and supported it more enthusiastically and for long than Clinton, and he is apparently a Jim-Dandy VP nominee (and President-in-waiting should anything happen to Obama). Does Kos have any shame at all?

    Parent
    Did Kos criticize Kerry (none / 0) (#115)
    by chel2551 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 02:58:45 PM EST
    and Edwards for voting for the authorization?

    Or was it okay because they "apologized."

    We need a public square and a few pillories and baskets of rotten tomatoes and helpful repubs-turned-dems like Kos.

    What fun we would have!

    Parent

    Did Kos criticize 'the guys?' (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by oldpro on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:13:20 PM EST
    Please.

    Guys who are not Clintons are all forgiven...it's the new politics.

    Parent

    Hard to tell (none / 0) (#120)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 03:55:15 PM EST
    Most of his "impressions" from the convention so far seem to revolve around his wardrobe and how awesome he is (better than MSMers but isn't it AWESOME when they recognize him).

    But my guess is endorsing Obama makes the stain of an Iraq war vote disappear!  If only HRC had endorsed Obama during the primary.

    Parent

    Incurable CDS | 123 comments (123 topical)

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