home

Wednesday Late Afternoon Open Thread

Obama is the official nominee.

Your turn.

This is an Open Thread.

< Nominations And Roll Call | Is Obama A Rejection Of "Clintonism?" >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    GhU (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by tfitz on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:07:00 PM EST
    God help us that Barack Obama is the nominee. What a shame especially after last nights speech by Clinton.  There is no comparison.  But I know it is imperative for the Democrats to win so I guess 'the majority' rules here.

    She's in a class by herself (5.00 / 7) (#14)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:11:53 PM EST
    We're just paranoid shrieking holdouts

    it was all so well timed and managed - (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:12:11 PM EST
    for the Big 3 networks to air this historic nomination as they came on at 6:30. They basically ignored other news of the day and focused on Obama - their cash cow.
    In all the other conventions, delegates have voted for the candidates they were elected to represent - uh - like a democracy.
    But not in ObamaLand!

    It was. (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by 0 politico on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:31:44 PM EST
    And, it was disgusting to orchestrate it so that HC had to perform the public sacrifice of calling for BO's "nomination by acclamation", with Ms. P calling the gig with that victorious smile plastered on her face.

    It is also amazing that the DNC sends out an announcement and request for money.  When I requested to be removed from their mailing list, they said wait for the security code so I could confirm my "unsubscription".  That was nearly two hours ago and I am still waiting so I can confirm.

    Parent

    weren't you banned from TL? (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:12:44 PM EST


    Nope (none / 0) (#24)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:15:13 PM EST
    I'm here aren't I?

    Parent
    Use Parent (none / 0) (#31)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:17:30 PM EST
    She was talking to beachmom

    Parent
    I didn't mean you myiq! (none / 0) (#38)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:19:33 PM EST
    Not this one (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:13:01 PM EST
    I am not as "classy" or as forgiving as Hillary. Perhaps that's why my only roles in politics are supporting roles, not leading roles. I guess that makes me trash in your eyes - but I don't really give a d**n. I'm sick of fools calling judgment on those who don't worship their idols.

    As feminist it stings but as a big D (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:14:03 PM EST
    Democrat I like that we are the party of inclusion and that our nominee is better than theirs.  That's enough for now.

    Not this year (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:15:43 PM EST
    the only 'includes' of the Democratic party this year are AAs, college kids, and rich liberals.  Real Dems need not apply.

    Parent
    African Americans are not real Dems? (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by DemForever on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:18:11 PM EST
    I think we know where this discussion ends (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:23:04 PM EST
    It ends with Donna Brazille sputtering something like "I'm sick of people in MY party saying 'my party' all the time."

    Parent
    Umm, ok then, that answers my question (none / 0) (#53)
    by DemForever on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:25:02 PM EST
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#161)
    by Addison on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:51:57 PM EST
    ...I think the mindset behind that comment was pretty clear, and it has gotten 3 top-ratings as well. Interesting that it's still there.

    Parent
    Seriously.... (none / 0) (#179)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:04:06 PM EST
    whatever a "Real Dem" is, I sure as hell want no part of it.

    Parent
    I truly hope Obama doesn't (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:18:13 PM EST
    disappoint his African American supporters.

    Parent
    He will. Have no fear. n/t (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:22:20 PM EST
    I noticed... (none / 0) (#68)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:29:34 PM EST
    I noticed that when Obama was asked which of the justices on the Supreme Court he would not have nominated, the only one he mentioned was Clarence Thomas.

    Not Alito... not Roberts.

    It seemed like racial pandering to me.

    Parent

    Actually (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by DemForever on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:34:49 PM EST
    Obama mentioned Thomas, Scalia and Roberts

    McCain mentioned Ginsburg, Souter, Breyer and Stevens, two of whom were appointed by GOP Presidents.

    I like Obama's answer better

    Parent

    Greetings from Hyde Park (none / 0) (#49)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:23:13 PM EST
    Val,  I lurked for a long time and like the way you think.  

    Me, I'm still worried about those in the margins but have a great deal of respect for those who think a huge wake up call has to go out to the corporate controlled Democratic leadership.

    But for tonight I just want to throw back a tequila (heavy on the salt to help me lick my wounds) and listen to the Big Dog.  

    And I'm sure it's soft bigotry but I do think there's something special about being the party that nominates the 1st minority presidential candidate even if my choices would have been better.

    Parent

    Well, one of the things I'm ticked at the party (5.00 / 6) (#78)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:31:59 PM EST
    for is that I won't get to vote for the first nominated AA candidate for president in November.

    Last year at this time I was thrilled because I thought chances were excellent that I would get to vote for either the first woman or the first AA president this year.  I couldn't wait.  

    Now I can't wait for another reason -- because I have to wait until Nov. 4 to start the process of reclaiming my party.

    Parent

    Yeah that's crossed my mind too (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Redshoes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:38:36 PM EST
    Actually we have no idea (5.00 / 6) (#36)
    by smott on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:18:43 PM EST
    Who are nominee even IS, much less whether he's better or worse than the GOP's.

    And our party is now officially as corrupt as the GOP.

    Happy?

    Parent

    I don't know if I'm a feminist (5.00 / 10) (#42)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:20:49 PM EST
    But I do know if a republican ever says to me:  "Your party passed on a woman who had the experience and qualifications and chose a man who had much less experience, and less of a record to go on," I won't be able to refute that statement.

    That statement will now forever remain truthful.

    Parent

    If it were only that simple (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:51 PM EST
    We had a moment to select the most extraordinary candidate.  Instead, we get the "pachaged deal," the prefab candiate.  You may think he is better than McCain but McCain has proven his metal over many years.  Do not underestimate him. Only Obamaphiles do so.  

    Parent
    YAY! The Clintons are off the hook! (5.00 / 9) (#22)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:14:44 PM EST
    I will cheer Obama silently from the sidelines with my check book tightly closed.

    And nevermore will I tolerate any more cr@p about the Clintons needing to Do More.   If Obama wants them to Do More, he can put them on the campaign's payroll.  That would be only fair.

    Bill's not off the hook yet, per Jeff Greenfield. (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by jawbone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:42:13 PM EST
    He has to prove himself tonight, walk the minefield, show he's "loyal" enough, enthusiastic enough, etc.

    Groveling is encouraged.

    Parent

    I do not think Bill cares. (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:06 PM EST
    He'll play the part - competently.

    You see, women have a lot more practice sucking up with a smile on our faces.  

    Parent

    A Clinton spokesperson sd. he'll (none / 0) (#127)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:38 PM EST
    be as supportive of Obama in his speech as Hillary was in hers.  Great answer.

    Parent
    Anyone know? (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:16:54 PM EST
    Is today the last day to contribute to Hillary to help pay down campaign debt?

    Well I just was there (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:29:31 PM EST
    I don't but it took my card.  I'm sure it's somewhere on her site.

    Parent
    She's retiring her debt - (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:38 PM EST
    I guess I can send my money where I choose, or is that in question now - whoever you are.

    It's a gesture - and it makes me feel good - what an idiot!

    Parent

    Hi Xanthe; (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by ChiTownDenny on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:40:52 PM EST
    I see someone 1 rated you, so I 5 rated you.  There is a deadline for Hillary to accept contributions to assist in retiring her debt.  I just want to get the info out to this and other blogs.  I can't find it on her site or google.

    Parent
    Someone here knows for sure - (none / 0) (#134)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:45:35 PM EST
    and I just saw it recently - thanks - I am from Chicago too.

    Parent
    i did that (1.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Jgarza on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:49:57 PM EST
    complete accident sorry i five rated you

    Parent
    tomorrow, I think. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:40 PM EST
    Obama approved the DNC's corruption (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:17:57 PM EST
    Makes you feel proud - huh?


    And, if he manages to win the GE (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:24:11 PM EST
    he also becomes the head of the party. We sure can expect to get fixed what he surely doesn't feel is broken.


    Parent
    Why does it matter to you? (5.00 / 6) (#37)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:18:52 PM EST
    Last time I looked, this was still a democracy somewhat (except of course when it comes to the DNC and the manipulation game they play).

    I can admire Hillary, or anyone else for the political commitment to make the lives of others (especially women and minorities and the poor in general) better. But I don't have to agree with all of her political decisions. I understand why she did this and why she let jerks like Pelosi and Dean off the hook. I just don't agree.....and brow beating from people like you doesn't help.

    "class" is not "being ignored' (5.00 / 15) (#40)
    by p lukasiak on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:19:51 PM EST
    I own my vote.  

    At least 40% of the delegates elected to vote for Hillary Clinton chose instead to vote for Barack Obama.

    My vote wasn't even counted, since I live in Pennsylvania.

    And all of this was done to create a facade of artificial unity in a way that disrespects millions and millions of Democratic voters.  

    A full roll call vote should have been held, and the elected delegates should have been encouraged to REPRESENT THE PEOPLE WHO SENT THEM TO THE CONVENTION.  (All the Superdelegates can do what they want -- we know its a bunch of party hacks, and thems the rules.)  After the full roll call vote, THEN you go the "nomination by acclamation" route.  But you make the point that the will of the voter is paramount....  

    The majority of NJ voters who voted for Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by jawbone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:45:01 PM EST
    were not counted as well. Quite amazing.

    I did become a shrieking bitter deadender at that point. As I noted, scared the cats and myself.

    Parent

    Does anyone have or know where to get (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:26:57 PM EST
    the e-mail addies of Dean and Pelosi.  I really would like to let the know what I think of their gestapo tactics. I am sick of citizens being manipulated.  We don't need their version of kabuki theatre and pretend that Obama or any democrat is some kind of a god unanimously elected as our messiah.  This was a close race....it should be shown as such and that's that.  It's called democracy.

    Here (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:32:37 PM EST
    Howard Dean's email: dean@dnc.org

    or

    A form to contact Howard Dean

    Pelosi's email: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

    or

    A form to contact to Pelosi

    Parent

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:35:36 PM EST
    I have some writing to do.

    Parent
    The problem (5.00 / 4) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:33:29 PM EST
    is we can't answer the questions that you are asking. We have no idea where Obama stands on anything. Just because McCain doesn't stand for those things doesn't mean Obama does.

    Really you have no idea??? (3.00 / 2) (#100)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:28 PM EST
    That's cop out. If you want to see his 10 point plans on everything from taxes to foreign policy, check his website, or just read the paper. He has two books out and a 13 year record in public life. If you want to know where he stands just listen.

    Parent
    Those (5.00 / 5) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:42:41 PM EST
    "plans" are just something some policy wonk stuck on his website. He doesn't even know what they say themselves. In the debates he could never answer a policy question.

    Besides, many things on his website have had the eraser put to them or changed.

    His books are "fictionalized" with "composites" so they don't really tell what he stands for.

    His record in the IL senate makes me not want to vote for him. At least the little bit that been put out there.

    Parent

    All administrations are run by the wonks in back. (5.00 / 0) (#151)
    by VelvetElvis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:48:50 PM EST
    The same wonks that made the policy statements on the website are going to be helping formulate policy in the whitehouse.  Why does it matter where the policy comes from as long as it's good?  I'm sure Obama takes a much larger role in formulating policy than McCain.

    Parent
    He's not (1.00 / 0) (#164)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:53:09 PM EST
    interested in policy. He doesn't care. He just wants to be President not affect any positive change in the country no matter how many times he spouts "change". There can be no change without a candidate who's willing to fight for it. Obama is not a fighter. He likes kumbaya.

    Parent
    the presidency is not a policy position (none / 0) (#185)
    by VelvetElvis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:12:15 PM EST
    Policy, particularly domestic policy, is supposed to be up to congress.  That's what annoyed me about Hillary's litany of policy positions.  As president she wouldn't have the power or authority to enact 3/4th of them.  The presidency is an executive leadership position.  

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:19:55 PM EST
    where's the leadership on issues then? So far we've seen none. If the President can't drive the agenda then what's the point?

    Parent
    Hey.. (5.00 / 0) (#159)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:51:01 PM EST
    If that's what you believe I can't argue with you. If you believe he is some phony who doesn't believe a word he says than there is no argument that can convince me otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way because I believe that Clinton is genuine, but how do you know that she is real? How do you know everything she says is written by someone else?

    Parent
    Hillary (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:05:47 PM EST
    has a record to back up what she said. Obama has no record.

    Parent
    Hillary and class (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:33:41 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton behaved like a proud democrat.

    I am a democrat, but I am not proud.

    Hillary didn't say anything (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:34:29 PM EST
    that's unusual during a political campaign - but it may seem that way to ObamaKids and newbies.
    It's the Truth - Obama is not qualified to be president.
    But again tonight - another Clinton will pretend he is.

    Nah, I'm low class (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:35:25 PM EST
    the shiny, PHD, will.i.am ticket holding, iPod people told me so repeatedly for the past year because I didn't vote for their guy.

    I am officially sick of hearing about (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:05 PM EST
    McCain's seven houses.  Even Maxine Waters.  

    It's basically not true (none / 0) (#158)
    by RonK Seattle on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:50:53 PM EST
    ... which casts a jaundiced light on the sudden media campaign to expose and shame McCain's spot-ad distortions of Obama's statements.

    The Machine has taken sides, and it rarely loses.

    The People lose, instead.

    Parent

    Katie Couric's new wave (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by decih on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:21 PM EST
    Whoever was watching CBS a minute ago got to catch this bit of comedy: Regarding Bill's upcoming speech, Katie Couric cut to another reporter to ask whether Bill Clinton would cause trouble for Obama. The reporter replied short and sweet that there would be no incentive for them to do that. Then the camera switched back to Katie and caught her off guard.

    She was repeatedly raising her hand up over and over, as if she was trying to get him to say something. Then she realized she was on camera and stopped. X-D

    You can blame Axelrod and Obama (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:42 PM EST
    He could have run a fair campaign, left out the reverse race-baiting, and lost, coming back in 8 years to run again. Heck, I'll bet you that Clinton would have happily made him her VP to ensure that she won the general election.

    I'm not in the mood for bull**it. I just wathced 18 MILLION vote's dismissed so that Obama could win without even looking as if he had serious competition. I have decided who I want to win - neither of them. Since I can't have that, I'm not voting. If you keep up the attacks, then I may just decide to join the growing ranks of (former) Dems who support McCain.

    Who will protect Democracy? McCain has at least never taken my vote away from me and given it to somebody else. If the Democratic Congress can't hold back McCain for 4 years, then we don't deserve to win anyway. I'm looking at the big picture - the one in which my vote was simply ignored.

    Obama's foreign policy committee (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by zyx on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:37 PM EST
    "And in the United States Senate, Mr. Obama leads a subcommittee on European affairs, but he has not held any oversight hearings to probe foreign policy issues, just a few to discuss nominations."

    From today's Jodi Kantor article.

    I saw discussions back-and-forth here earlier.

    Just jumping in.

    Surprised at the misinformation in the comments. (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by zvs888 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:41:19 PM EST
    Wow, some of you seem to misunderstand what happened.

    Hillary when she said to move to acclamation asked to suspend the roll call.

    I.E. the vote will be preserved for the states that go after, all the states take secret ballots and put them in the count.

    Also, she released her delegates days ago; if you wanted them to stick by her she shouldn't have released them.  Most delegates switched because she told them she was going to vote for Obama...

    Everyone knows that she received around 1900 delegates; no one is ever going to take that away, she released them for unity.  At least give her credit for being the bigger person.

    Well put, Hillary lost nothing tonight. (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by Mark Woods on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:49:49 PM EST
    Her future is secure. But the DNC lost my money, energy, time and membership for the foreseeable future, possibly several decades if I live that long.

    I will not vote for Obama under any circumstances now, and no one in my family plans to do so either. I have never voted for anything but DNC candidates, but this year I will vote against the FL anti-gay marriage bill and write in Hillary in protest.

    Parent

    Surprised that someone (5.00 / 3) (#173)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:55:24 PM EST
    who posts to counter misinformation doesn't even have the facts lined up.

    Start with the fact that she released her delegates today and then work your way through the rest of your post finding out where you went wrong.

    The More You Know.

    Parent

    The way this went down (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by chel2551 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:01:54 PM EST
    did nothing to unify the party.

    And we're left with a candidate that isn't the best choice.

    Sad.

    This isn't about a Nader or a Perot or a Gravel.  This is a candidate that got as many or more votes than Obama and, thanks to the powers-that-be, was denied the nomination.

    She did not fracture the party.

    But fractured it seems to be.

    Parent

    I would get banned for saying what you sound like. (5.00 / 4) (#125)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:23 PM EST
     

    No comparison (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:33 PM EST
    Clinton said that Obama is not qualified. He has no experience.
    This is empirically demonstrable. He has been in the Senate only a few years and has a lackluster record.

    Obama, on the other hand, allowed his campaign to insinuate that Clinton (and her husband) were racists.

    Quite a difference.

    I guess (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Monda on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    I'm not the only one crying here.  Preparing myself to cry one more time when Bill talks ... scratch that, I'm hoping he I'll laugh.  And that will be the last time I watched the Politburo.  What they did today is a disgrace to 18 million cracks/votes.  Yeap they (Dean, Nancy, Brazile and Co) cracked up with us.

    By the way, Brazile was interviewed after the "roll the carpet for Caesar" call and she said "I'm proud as an African-American today."  Ok, I can understand that, but if you're going down that road, how is your vagina feeling?  

    The roll call vote was the nicest (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by LatinoVoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:55 PM EST
    looking display of fascist synchronicity designed to project national unity since the closing of the Beijing Olympics.

    Bravo.

    It is finally over.

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......Clyburn. (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:45:14 PM EST
    ...go ahead, Jgarza....downrate me.

    BTD asks, was watching the (5.00 / 6) (#143)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:14 PM EST
    roll call cathartic?  Answer:  no.  

    Conversely, the question should be (none / 0) (#160)
    by blogtopus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:51:31 PM EST
    for the DNC:

    Was that roll call painful or damaging? NO. Big babies.

    Parent

    I think doing the roll call in such a (5.00 / 3) (#172)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:55:02 PM EST
    sham fashion will actually have an adverse effect party unity.  Yes, I know Clinton released her delegates earlier in the day and told them she would vote for Obama.  

    Parent
    This is Obama class? (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by lmv on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:48:05 PM EST
    Honestly, why do Obama supporters have to twist the knife EVERY chance they get?

    Honey, if I were still a Democrat, I'd be ashamed that my party wiped away 18 million voices, more than any other candidate in history AND YES FL AND MI COUNT.

    As an independent, I'm free to feel everything I am about Hillary (terribly, terribly proud), about the Democratic Party (unmentionable) and their selected nominee (even more unmentionable).  

    Best, I'm free to vote my conscience, guilt free, because I did what I could to prevent this debacle.

    Hillary 2012!

    No (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:48:51 PM EST
    were in it for the issues. Obama has shown that there is no stance he won't compromise away. He won't fight for anything and goes to the bargaining table begging the other side. What exactly are you going to get when you won't fight and you are against a party that won't compromise with you? Absolutely nothing. So you get absolutley nothing whether you vote for McCain or Obama. SCOTUS? One word Cass Sunstein. Nothing more needs to be said.

    We just don't trust Obama.

    Ok fair enough... (5.00 / 0) (#165)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:53:26 PM EST
    But sometimes you need to compromise or nothing gets done. My one knock on Hilary is that she was unwilling to compromise when she set out to work on the health care system in 1992. Her not comprimising got us nowhere. Now if she did compromise, we wouldn't have a perfect system, but we would be well on our way to get their.

    Parent
    Ok fair enough... (none / 0) (#170)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:54:29 PM EST
    But sometimes you need to compromise or nothing gets done. My one knock on Hilary is that she was unwilling to compromise when she set out to work on the health care system in 1992. Her not comprimising got us nowhere. Now if she did compromise, we wouldn't have a perfect system, but we would be well on our way to get their.

    Parent
    Obama (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:11:51 PM EST
    starts every compromise from a position of weakness not strength. He goes to the table willing to cave to all the demands of the opposition. If he was willing to compromise from a position of strength that would be another thing.

    He's already caved on FISA. He didn't even try for a compromise. He just wilted.

    Parent

    This is a proud day for Black America (5.00 / 0) (#167)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:53:56 PM EST


    Your remark says volumes about you (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by Boo Radly on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 08:07:27 PM EST
    Theft was never something I wanted done it my name, nor would a feeling of pride come to me.

    A different POV? Wait until you get an unbiased sinop like say from the foreign press. American will now be viewed as a third world government.

    Parent

    And... (none / 0) (#183)
    by DET103 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:10:02 PM EST
    ...would be even prouder if he had been nominated legitimately and had not exploited his race in the campaign.

    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#187)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:13:14 PM EST
    You can try to bring the accomplishment down all you want.  Haters aren't welcome at this Black man's party.

    Parent
    Sam, the "accomplishment" (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:19:30 PM EST
    was the complete subjugation of a marvelous woman and her 18 million voters, through threats, intimidation, and bullying.

    Revel in the joy of it, if you must.

    There's no role for women in this party, except to provide hookers at the convention. And I'm including Pelosi in that category.

    Parent

    I am so sick (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by samtaylor2 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:32:34 PM EST
    Of the down play of Obama and his 18 millon votes.  Guess what there are a couple of glass ceiling in this country- white women have't been the only oppressed group here.  You can help us completely crash our ceiling or you can try to get in the way, I hope you join us.

    It is shame  that the Black glass ceiling is so rarely talked about on this site.  If you knew nothing about this country and you read this site, their would have to be assumption that Blacks are the most powerful group in this country.  

    Parent

    I'm not a hater... (5.00 / 2) (#199)
    by DET103 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:36:07 PM EST
    ..and suspect I'd put in a many more hours of working for civil rights than you have before you were even born. Fairness and transparency is not racial. I'd also like to see a Democrat elected, your methodology is a not an effective one sir.

    Parent
    I didn't think wanting votes counted ... (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:54:13 PM EST
    ... and being angry because they weren't, was "petty". I thought it was what Democracy was about. Apparently, if you're a member of the modern Democratic Party, you believe in some other kind of political system.

    Rockefeller and Reid (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:20:44 PM EST
    I was watching Rockefeller speaking at the convention.
    He really made my flesh crawl.
    The evil ones are Iran and Russia.
    We should have killed Osama bin Laden by now...

    If this guy is a democrat, what is Kucinich?
    I know. Big tent... but Rockefeller has a lot of power, and Kucinich has none.

    Then, here comes Reid.
    He talks about oil and wars being fought over oil.
    He mentions Iraq invading Kuwait. He mentions Japan and Pearl Harbor(!)
    HE MADE NO MENTION OF THE WAR IN IRAQ.

    In addition, he just said that off-shore oil drilling is "snake oil".
    He doesn't seem to realize that Obama recently said he was fer it.

    Lemme outta here.

    Harry Reid is speaking. He doesn't (5.00 / 2) (#195)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:21:03 PM EST
    seem aware of the fact Obama is open to increased off-shore dwelling, as is Nancy Pelosi.

    beachmom (5.00 / 3) (#197)
    by suki on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:32:30 PM EST
    I used to enjoy your comments on dk, so I'm puzzled with your approach here.
    Why would you think that provoking people (especially this week) with a question like this would, in any way, help to persuade anyone to vote for Obama?
    I have seen poster after poster come here with this kind of tactic and I can't believe any of them really thinks they are being at all helpful in their goal of getting Obama elected.
    It clearly upsets people even more, so why do it?
    I've found that giving people space and allowing them to vent without further antagonizing them works much better. They seem to appreciate it.
    I know I do.

    when did the Democratic Party.... (4.78 / 19) (#4)
    by p lukasiak on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:06:50 PM EST
    ...become the Politburo?

    seriously, this made Florida 2000 look like a vermont town hall meeting...

    Agreed! (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by befuddledvoter on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:11:50 PM EST
    Historically, by the shear numbers, it looks like an Obama win by a landslide.  However, history will have an awful lot to say about this nomination.  Hopefully I will be around to wietness it.    

    Parent
    Don't agree. (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:24:48 PM EST
    Hillary went along with this.
    Believe me, If Hillary had wanted to make a case for her getting the nomination she could have. She could have dragged this thing out and it was in her rights to do so. But she didn't. I honor her for the integrity she has for wanting unity.

    Parent
    huh? (5.00 / 6) (#64)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:28:17 PM EST
    Obama had more total delegates - get it? That's what the shame RBC meeting was all about in May.
    There was no reason why the delegates couldn't have voted tonight the way they were elected to vote.


    Parent
    You have not been paying attention, (5.00 / 9) (#66)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:28:59 PM EST
    have you? She and Bill have had to fight for everything, right down to getting a chance to speak at this event.

    Time and again Bill Clinton asked why Hillary was being pushed to get out of the primary before it was finished.

    Parent

    Course I have (none / 0) (#120)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:42:04 PM EST
    Yes, I agree Hillary was asked to leave the primary early. That is not what I am saying.
    I am saying right now today Hillary could have continued the Roll Call. She didn't. She did it for unity. You could say she did it because she was pressured but I think that is reading into things. Why would she not want unity? McCain had no trouble with unifying with Bush in 2000. [He may have actually but he put on a game face and the Republcans won].

    Parent
    McCain didn't VOTE for Bush (none / 0) (#166)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:53:51 PM EST
    is what he told Arianna Huffington. He didn't vote for Bush.

    So "unifying" must mean "posturing".
    UNITY must mean PHOTO OP? The only reason he
    pretends this "unity" claptrap is so he can win the election. Thing about McCain is we can't be absolutely certain what he'd do IF HE WINS.
    I'm not going to say he's "a Maverick" because that shizzz is played out and tired, but I am saying that he is unpredictable. And he is in his 70's, so he may be a One Termer (he may THINK that) and if so why not get in and shake things up and give a raspberry to the Religious Right? Who knows...he might. He might do a lot of things that we'd never imagine and some of it, good.

    Maybe not, maybe not, but MAYBE SO.

    Parent

    Hillary is a team player (5.00 / 7) (#76)
    by Jjc2008 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:54 PM EST
    but also KNOWS DAMN well not to give the Obama camp any reason to blame her.  She will do everything Dean, Pelosi and Axlerod ask because all of us including Hillary, are quite aware of how low and dirty the Obama camp can go when they don't get their way.

    We all know if by some reason Obama doesn't pull things off the way some of his worshippers think he should, the first place they want to go is to BLAME THE CLINTONS.

    Parent

    Hillary is smart, you are right (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by stefystef on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:55:01 PM EST
    Give the Obama-bots no reason to blame her when Obama loses.

    Parent
    here it is..the video (none / 0) (#65)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:28:31 PM EST
    take two (none / 0) (#71)
    by Stellaaa on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:20 PM EST
    Take tw

    that is how it felt

    Parent

    Obama is not worthy of the grace and dignity (4.71 / 14) (#1)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:02:44 PM EST
    with which Hillary Clinton handled this entire process, most especially last night's speech and tonight's nomination process.  

    The Democratic Party has made a major mistake.

    It's official all right (4.71 / 14) (#10)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:10:17 PM EST
    The Democratic party is officially corrupt.

    ummm this is news? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Faust on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:17:12 PM EST
    Seriously.... (none / 0) (#141)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:06 PM EST
    where you been for 40+ years?

    Parent
    Is anyone else crying? (4.71 / 14) (#12)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:11:05 PM EST
    I didn't think it would bother me this much. It's not that Obama won - I expected that. It's that Clinton's "historic" run seems to have been wiped off the map. It didn't happen. Everybody voted for Obama. I started crying when I read about Arkansas, where Clinton got 70% of the vote and 0 delegates. I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach. Wasn't it enough to beat her? Did they have to make her accomplishments completely go away, like none of it mattered? Like none of us mattered?

    Well... at least I feel much better about not voting for Obama. I was feeling kind of bad after Clinton's speech yesterday.

    I'm right there with you! (5.00 / 9) (#20)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:13:35 PM EST
    When Hillary did that, the fear I felt really was enough that crying was all I could do. I can't see what's ahead with this candidate, and what seems to be growing around the Democratic Party is not democracy at its finest.


    Parent
    It was also reported that it was so well (5.00 / 10) (#39)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:19:50 PM EST
    chorographed that at the request of the Obama campaign, the votes being tallied at any time could only continually favor Obama. If Hillary were to go ahead in the delegate count at any time, it would not look "good" for Obama. The "air-brushed" look just doesn't cut for me.

    Parent
    I'm sick right now (5.00 / 10) (#41)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:19:54 PM EST
    So yeah. I watched it and it made my blood run cold. I hope some day someone writes an honest book about what happened to the Democratic party this year (or maybe earlier). Of course, we all know it wasn't illegal so we're not allowed to complain about it, right?

    I'm so glad I left in May. There's no going back for me after this display of corruption.

    Parent

    What happened in 2000 wasn't illegal (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:39:14 PM EST
    It was endorsed by no less than the U.S. Supreme Court. But that didn't make it right.

    Parent
    Oh i know. (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:41:51 PM EST
    I'm just being snarky given the smacking down we got here last night for daring to be unhappy and not becoming cheerleaders as per instruction.

    Parent
    I was surprised at the feeling that rushed (5.00 / 6) (#61)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:27:28 PM EST
    through me when she walked into the hall and stood with the NY delegation. I knew what was coming and I was suddenly devastated. I felt gutted as I said in the other thread. I cried for a very long time. My state of Florida mightily let me down today as did my party.

    What would the hard have been in letting our delegates reprsent us? because it would have been close? I doubt he would have lost and if he did then so be it. This is the democratic party! What we saw today was as far from democracy as you can get.

    Hillary's historic run was reduced to a footnote and that is a travesty. As far as I am concerned not only did they erase what Hillary accomplished last night but they made it almost impossible for me to appreciate or be proud of the history of this moment.

    Parent

    Yes, I'm crying too, dianem (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by noholib on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:42:53 PM EST
    Last night I cried and cried as I watched with my teen-age daughter.  I was so stirred up again that I could hardly get to sleep.  Here was sheer excellence--maturity, intelligence, amazing grace, compassion, and a proud fighting Dem spirit-- all on display, riveting and brilliant ... What could have been, if only ... I sighed and cried in resignation.  But today, seeing this sham roll-call vote, was painful beyond belief.  To erase her accomplishments is so very wrong.  I will still vote for the Democrats in November because I take her larger point and I still stand for a Democratic agenda over a Republican one.  I just wish that I could be sure that the Democratic Party's nominee is as staunch a supporter of historic Democratic values and causes as I am, and as many of the readers of talkleft and Senator Clinton!  I remain convinced that Senator Clinton could be an outstanding president, and I so want to see her in that office.  My admiration for Senator Clinton has grown exponentially since I cast my primary vote for her (somewhat hesitantly) in early February.  I look forward to supporting her in the future in whatever way I can and whatever way makes sense.  As for this sham convention, I will watch President Clinton this evening and perhaps Senator Biden.  And then, no more.  I cannot bear to see the adulation and hero-worship on display in tomorrow evening's football stadium faux-Greek temple.  Yuck is not a strong enough word, but it probably conveys my visceral feelings.  


    Parent
    I'm surprised Obama didn't want this horrible sham of a vote to happen YESTERDAY on the day honoring a woman's right to vote, yes?

    That's the kind of petty garbage his campaign has been about...shaming and belittling and stepping on everything Hillary is and stands for and everything she has accomplished. Meanwhile tromping on all of us who support her and who support DEMOCRACY & FREEDOM. They will never stop abusing us and her and NEXT STOP the constitution for Obama clearly has already made a beeline for it with his FISA vote.

    The whole thing is scary. The threats to our democratic leaders. The lies, the facades and charades and multiple minions scattering disinfromation...f*ck! This shizzzz is all so creepy...so very very creepy.

    Parent

    This was a corrupt process from the get-go. (4.63 / 11) (#50)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:23:48 PM EST
    Florida, Michigan, the caucuses, the phoney lunch meeting, everything.  I will never give another dime to the democratic party.  I will never support another candidate who receives funds from the democratic party.  My 40-plus years of support for the democratic party has ended.  And strangely enough I don't really feel sad.  I feel betrayed.

    Amen. (5.00 / 9) (#62)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:28:03 PM EST
    There are three of us here. My 80 yr old dad, my 75 yr old mom and myself. They've lost three workers, three checkbooks and three ardent supporters. We're not wanted and we won't support this kind of behavior from anyone. And any d!ckwad who lectures me and tells me I'm not a good Democrat because I won't blindly vote for the One? Ha. I'm not one anymore -- I left in May. But you know what? I didn't leave the Democratic party, they left me. If this is what the 'new' Democratic party looks and sounds like, let them have to themselves.

    Parent
    Yeah but (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:28:09 PM EST
    Will you at least consider the fact that there are only two parties in this country? And that the Democratic party probably shares more of your values than the other? I can understand being disappointed but Hillary made a great point last night; did people vote for her or vote for what she believes in? If the latter than you in essence voted for the Democratic party platform.

    Parent
    No, but you go right ahead (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:46 PM EST
    You leave this all in place and without protest, and what's ahead will be the loss of all freedoms.


    Parent
    We're kind of tired of threats. It won't work. (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:48 PM EST
    So please don't try that crap.  

    Parent
    Not a threat to you personally (5.00 / 0) (#156)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:50:24 PM EST
    Forgive me if you think that is a threat. I'm simply saying I think there is a difference in the two parties. I fully understand the disappointment some are feeling. Could be because I live in CA and no Democrat I know is that disappointed [and Hillary won here]. We would love to have all the branches of government so we can get things done - like universal healthcare. This is a serious issue. The Republcans will not proopose this legislation. That is just the truth.

    Parent
    Now (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:46 PM EST
    there is really only one party. We have the Republicans and Republican-lites. Might as well have the real thing as the fake one just keeps bungling it.

    Parent
    Don't agree (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by Rashomon66 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:53:01 PM EST
    That was very similar to the line Ralph Nader used in 2000. He always says both parties are the same. But do you really think that 8 years of Gore would have been the same as 8 years of Bush? I think they would have been far better with Gore.
    So no, I don't want the real Republicans.

    Parent
    There's way more than two parties. (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:41:25 PM EST
    Just because they think they are the only two that count doesn't mean it's the truth.

    If Obama doesn't suck up to the busunders tomorrow, I'll be looking forward to opening my mail in ballot in a few weeks to see my other options.

    Parent

    Um... (none / 0) (#136)
    by DET103 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:02 PM EST
    ...I think she/he would prefer to see the corruption displayed by the party during this primary be rectified so she/he can come back home. Perhaps addressing the real and legitimate concerns will be more effective than the you have no choice strategy.

    Parent
    Me, too (5.00 / 7) (#69)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:29:58 PM EST
    They just erased the landmark candidacy of the most able woman ever in American politics.

    This is not a party for women anymore. Nor anyone with self-respect.

    Parent

    Betrayed - there is Nov. 4 though (none / 0) (#180)
    by Boo Radly on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:05:05 PM EST
    All the hopes for a better life, all the dreams of making things right that have been done wrong by the Bu#h cabal - gone. You don't build strong government for the people upon the ashes of a fraudulent primary that disallowed the people's wishes. I knew my party left me several months ago, but to watch this fraud unfold has been revolting. The cast of culprets is disheartening - but there was never any action by D representatives to correct the wrongs these last few years.  This 'convention' showcases they never planned to make those corrections.

    I will not be voting for the least of two evils but against the worst candidate ever fostered upon the American public.  

    Parent

    I hate Nancy Pelosi.... (4.60 / 10) (#46)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:21:26 PM EST
    ...there I said it. And it felt GOOD.

    Not hate, but ZERO respect. (5.00 / 6) (#54)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:25:06 PM EST
    Down from zero, so there's no change.

    Maybe absolute zero respect?  (science joke)

    Parent

    I think I probably hate her even more..... (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by Angel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:26:16 PM EST
    she wants to be alpha-female. What a bi$@h..  

    Parent
    Hate (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by janarchy on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:25 PM EST
    is such a mild word for me.

    I swear it looked like she was having an orgasm up on that podium as she announced the nomination and then made sure not to give anyone time to say 'nay'. Hope she's happy now. I'm sure Obama will do as much for her Democratic party as she has as Speaker of the House.


    Parent

    which is next to nothing... (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by kredwyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:18:38 PM EST
    We worked pretty hard to get a majority in the House. We got it...and then they did next to nothing with it.

    Parent
    So technically, and for the history books (4.33 / 6) (#3)
    by DandyTIger on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:06:33 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton didn't win a single primary. That, according to the rules, the primary isn't decided until the roll call. Nice system.

    Is that the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by americanincanada on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:08:02 PM EST
    way it will be recorded? Surely Hillary would not stand for that.

    Why did California pass?

    Parent

    I heard because there was still some (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:12:53 PM EST
    infighting in the delegation. What griped me was that after Hillary asked to make it by acclimation, Pelosi didn't even pretend that it was not chorographed and read everything after that off a teleprompter and then added, Barack Obama accepts your nomination and will give his speech tomorrow. I was soooooo surprised!~

    Parent
    Pelosi didn't get around to (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:15:13 PM EST
    leaving time to hear any "nays."

    Parent
    So they wouldn't go over the (none / 0) (#8)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:08:55 PM EST
    magic number before they got to New York.


    Parent
    New Hampshire (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Desired User Name on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:38:54 PM EST
    giving all to Obama, TO ME, was the most offensive.For as we all recall they called for Hillary to GET OUT of the race after Iowa. After he only won like 31% of the vote.

    "Get Out Hillary, It's Over!" Yep we heard that mantra repeatedly.

    And then she wins New Hampshire and so to me that State was of Über significance and symbolic important and yet they gave it all to Obama.

    That absolutely crushed me. My heart plummeted, plunging to the lowest of depths. And my mind feels kicked and thrown under the bus. Nothing in our party is rational anymore and all for what? Money and um, "change"...CHANGE IS MONEY. Hope? Hoping for more of that shiny Obama change, that MONEY.

    Here's a man with a teleprompter strapped to his chest. Here's a man who has shown he's arrogant, ungracious, hypocritical, insensitive and MY GOD the list goes on...

    HERE IS A MAN who had/HAS a chance to really change the world. Seriously it's in the palm of his hand but instead he's reaching for his shoulder to brush off imaginary dandruff.

    Obama could make systemic change but is he going to, hell no! He's deep in the pocket of too many although he claims otherwise. There will not be the America we saw in Hillary. And we know it and it will haunt us for years to come, this nightmare of injustice will never be forgotten BY US. But by the U S, the general public, well they aren't paying any attention and perhaps BO will win?

    He hasn't earned my respect and without that he'll never get my vote.

    I really did hold out hope that'd he'd change and be strong instead of PETTY and PETULANT and SELF ABSORBED, but I doubt I'll ever see it...

    I LOVE YOU HILLARY and I will miss the systemic change I know and knew damn well that you would bring...

    [tears]

    Parent

    Ohio didn't get to vote. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:17:16 PM EST
    Mixed blessing since that meant I didn't have to witness any delegates strip themselves of their dignity and integrity and leap shamelessly into Obama's waiting arms.

    Parent
    yes - but (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:26:18 PM EST
    the roll call vote is usually a biggie when delegates get to hype their states' attributes, elected officials, etc.
    But Obama was too insecure to allow the usual procedure.


    Parent
    Have you thought (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by PaulDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:39:34 PM EST
    Have you thought that the nomination was moved by acclamation to avoid embarassing Clinton?  How would it have looked if the final tally showed her only getting a small fraction of the delegates she won.

    But please, keep insisting that every move the Obama campaign makes does is specifically aimed to insult the Clintons and their supporters.

    Parent

    But The Only Reason That Would Be (5.00 / 9) (#145)
    by BDB on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:37 PM EST
    is that Hillary released her delegates and encouraged them to vote for Obama.  So if they followed her wish that would be embarrassing?

    What's embarrassing, IMO, is that the party has decided the best way to make Obama not look weak is to pretend that he won more delegates than he did by denying Clinton the full roll call like Jackson, Brown and others got.  Clinton went along with it, but the real question is why was this even needed?  Everyone knows it was a close primary.  It seems to me that doing this like they do it every year would've made the party seem confident in its choice and Obama secure in his nomination. Instead, it just looks like he can't even do with the usual sham vote, he has to have his own special sham vote.  

    Parent

    Very weak (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by lmv on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:06:04 PM EST
    He has made that clear.  And insecure.

    The 3AM VP text?  Could he have gotten more juvenile?  (no, I don't buy the excuses)

    I think when the dust settles from this campaign season, history will not look kindly on Obama and the DNC machine.  There will be books about Pelosi's PAC donating to supers in HRC districts, the MSM, the strong-arm tactics, MOVEON.org, baseless accusations of racism, and the caucus debacles (I'm in a red state).

    I have the perfect title:  How The Democrats Schemed to Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory.  

    Parent

    People need to get it out of their heads (none / 0) (#124)
    by VelvetElvis on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:44:11 PM EST
    That they are voting for a candidate in the primaries. They are voting for delegates to their state convention and that's it.  

    Everything functioned like it's supposed to. Nothing is corrupt.  It could be argued that it's defective by design.

    People directly choosing the nominee is not and has never been how presidential candidates are chosen in this country.

    The part that amazes me the most is how few people were aware of this until this year.

    The Republican party is no better.  Ask a Ron Paul supporter. I believe the NV Republican primary was canceled rather than risk give giving RP supporters a voice.

    I'm pretty sure this is how political parties in other countries work as well.  People don't select the candidate.  They select the party insiders who will select the candidate.

    This is why I favor caucuses over elections.  If our tax dollars are going to support the process, it should be democratic.  Since all it is is a private club selecting the nominee, the parties should have to foot the bill.

    Parent

    caucuses are not democratic (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:56:58 PM EST
    caucuses are not democratic (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:00:37 PM EST
    This was a very corrupt convention! delegates didn't get to vote for the candidates they were elected to represent.
    But Obama approved the corruption.


    Parent
    Hillary a class act... (4.33 / 3) (#43)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:20:51 PM EST
    To tell the truth I underestimated the true heart and class that Clinton had. The primaries were a tough fought campaign which she came inches away from winning, she has put that behind her to help unite the party and help take this country in the right connection. I really hope that she becomes the Majority Leader in the Senate. Her and Obama would make a great team and lead this nation back to where we belong.

    If Obama wins (4.42 / 7) (#55)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:25:59 PM EST
    there is 0 chance she'll become ML.

    There is not much chance anyway, but given how the Obama campaign (egged on by the MSM and his less than gracious supporters) has begrudged both Clintons every scintilla of respect.

    Parent

    In 1968, teddy was still the dork baby brother. (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:33 PM EST
    It won't be in January, but it can happen. they don't run the Senate on rules determined by anyone but them. He got where he got by buckling down to the business of the Senate. It can happen if she does the same.

    Parent
    And if anyone knows (none / 0) (#157)
    by Xanthe on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:50:45 PM EST
    how to buckle down....

    Parent
    it would be the gentlewoman (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by kredwyn on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:13:25 PM EST
    from NY who has been buckling down to do New York's business in the Senate since she first got there...

    Parent
    I think you're very wrong (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Claw on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:02:51 PM EST
    If Obama is elected Clinton has a great chance to become ML.  She will be remembered as the person who came incredibly close to winning, still commanded the hearts of many voters, and chose to step aside and endorse Obama with what will probably be the best speech of the entire convention.  Obama's election would probably go a long way toward ending CDS...if anything can.

    Parent
    And what are the great perks, for Hillary, (none / 0) (#186)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:12:44 PM EST
    to being majority leader?

    Parent
    He is the official nominee (4.20 / 5) (#2)
    by JavaCityPal on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:06:02 PM EST
    That's right. That I feel so awful about this has nothing, absolutely nothing, with the fact it wasn't Hillary Clinton. This feels like walking into a cave without a flashlight. I have absolutely no idea who he would bring with him into the WH if he wins. I know he won't have anything to do with the people who I trust, so, while I will get over it, I don't have to go along.


    Probably (none / 0) (#60)
    by xanadu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:27:26 PM EST
    a lot of UChicago and Harvard academics... that's where he seems to have been drawing a lot of his policy advisers from (these universities are #1 and #2 in number of Nobel laureates on faculty, btw)

    As for the think tank crowd, I've heard that CAP was pretty much evenly divided between Obama and Clinton. It seems like Daschle may have a CoS position waiting for him if he's willing to walk away from the lobbying job.

    Parent

    Wouldn't it be nice if the women of the House... (4.00 / 4) (#58)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:26:47 PM EST
    ...remembered the one who is missing from the stage? I really didn't expect that they would act like Stephanie Tubbs Jones didn't even exist. Way to go Nancy. What a leader you are.

    Jgarza................. (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:39:30 PM EST
    ...I can only conclude you don't think that Stephanie Tubbs Jones deserves more respect.

    Parent
    eh.... a little shout out at the end. (none / 0) (#81)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:33:37 PM EST
    ....guess its better than nothing.

    Parent
    Roll Call (3.85 / 7) (#75)
    by lovepolitics on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:50 PM EST
    Last night I was feeling bad about not voting for Obama.  After this ridiculous 'roll call' I feel completely fine about it.  But I am still so depressed about the whole thing.  What a sham.

    the negotiated provision and text of the (none / 0) (#162)
    by Christy1947 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:52:23 PM EST
    motion she made in fact calls for a complete enumeration of the actual votes, whether or not it was on tv. All of those who voted for her as delegates will be in that actual enumeration as having done so, in the record of the convention. If they voted for her, it will be there and their actual votes will be recorded, acclamation or no acclamation. I think they were all trying too hard to make the lead story in the national newscasts. They are Democrats. They should have known better or started earlier.

    What I heard about California, btw, was an interview with a delegation rep, who said they passed because a lot of the delegates were state legislators and had to grab a plane home for something not mentioned, and they were in process of rounding up the authorized alternates and getting their votes tabulated. i don't know if it was true, but that was what was said. No they didn't say why they didn't unscramble that in the morning statue caucus.

    Parent

    The Roll Call used to be such a convention (none / 0) (#200)
    by bridget on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:45:07 PM EST
    high point. Not today. I felt it was a charade.

    Witnessing the event today was depressing. Maybe it was different for the delegates on the floor. When it was over I listened to Chris Wallace from Fox for a couple minutes and he reported that one could feel the catharsis and that the Dems were now united. Something like that.

    Well, maybe he did feel it happening.
    I got a headache instead. How sad was this?

    P.S. I just read the Roll Call thread until the v. end and just found out I am not the only one with headache :-(

    Parent

    An historical moment. (3.00 / 4) (#6)
    by beachmom on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:07:08 PM EST
    I got really choked up when Hillary declared Obama the nominee.  Just wonderful.

    I choked up also as she walked to the (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:12:23 PM EST
    NY delegation.  I was embarrased she was put into that position. But, she pulled it off, of course, with aplomb.  Then I watched CNN and the faces of the African American delegates and was happy for this historic moment for them.  

    Parent
    Historic, of course. I cried too (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by zfran on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:16:09 PM EST
    when she was walking up to speak. It should have been her, however, having the primary run as long as it did really opened my eyes to how Sen. Obama would govern and who I believe he really is. So in that respect, my eyes are wider and wiser because of Hillary.

    Parent
    I am happy for them (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:21:04 PM EST
    I only wish that the first AA candidate could have been more worthy. If only Obama had been a more patient man, or more confident... I'm afraid that they will be disappointed and all of this fake unity will end up dividing our party even further, as people blame racists in the Democratic Party for Obama's loss, and unless things change soon he will lose.

    Parent
    Let's hope they're still happy on November 5th. (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:35:15 PM EST
    Yep (5.00 / 8) (#27)
    by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:16:24 PM EST
    This is the kind of compliment from an Obama supporter I do not respect.

    I would not be calling Obama just wonderful right now if the situation was reversed.  I would keep my big mouth shut and let other people tend to their disappointment.

    That's what I would do.

    Aside from that, I disagree, yeah, she's wonderful, but I think she was more wonderful when she was fighting for votes in key states Obama will need if he's going to pull this off.


    Parent

    oh don't worry - (1.00 / 0) (#45)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:21:17 PM EST
    reporters and media pundits already have Bill Clinton's schedule planned: campaigning for Obama in small towns where those white bitter racists live.
    Everyone - and I mean everyone - must do anything - and I mean anything - to carry THE ONE over the finish line.

    Parent
    I would hope (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by xanadu on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:35:51 PM EST
    that Bill does all he can to get Obama elected. He's a fantastic campaigner, and given the divisiveness of the primary, he is in a unique position to lend credibility to the arguments that his wife laid out in her speech last night.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 4) (#110)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:40:08 PM EST
    it's time for Bill to step back. There's nothing he can do to help Obama. Obama is going to have to go to the voters himself and tell them why they should vote for him. If Obama can't make the sell, then it's Obama's problem. He can't rely on anyone else to deliver votes for him.

    Parent
    I hope he goes back to his foundation (5.00 / 6) (#131)
    by Valhalla on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:45:01 PM EST
    work the minute he's done with his speech tonight.  Where he can make a real difference and real change in the world, not this massive fakeout kind.

    Parent
    yes, let's think of all the ways Bill can help (5.00 / 4) (#140)
    by Josey on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:06 PM EST
    LOL - Obamabots still don't get it.
    Bill will give a wonderful speech tonight FOR OBAMA who engaged in race-baiting throughout the primary and has allowed his bots and media to falsely cast Bill and Hillary as racists!
    I'm glad to know Bill is immediately exiting that hell hole after his speech.


    Parent
    I got choked up, too (5.00 / 11) (#35)
    by dianem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:18:26 PM EST
    18 Million voters opinion's were dismissed so that Obama could tell everybody that even though his campaign divided the party, we are now unified. Clinton's "historic" run was reduced to a political game. And her supporter's might as well have not voted at all. The Democratic Party just showed me how important my vote is.

    Sorry... you've got a tough job here. Not a sympathetic crowd.

    Parent

    I'm only hearing about it here. (none / 0) (#112)
    by prittfumes on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:40:21 PM EST
    I switched to TCM shortly after the voting started. Couldn't bear to watch it.

    Parent
    Self-imposed Ignorance (1.33 / 3) (#135)
    by Loftlore on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:46:00 PM EST
    On Tuesday August 26th my wife and I came to lunch in Deckerville, MI. The restaurant sits on the end of a small commercial strip on the west-most edge of town. The place is near a franchise fast food outlet and a gas station. They serve good food with plenty of smiles.
    While waiting for our food, Barack Obama came onto the overhead TV. A man sitting at the table next to us seized the moment to open a tirade.
    "That buffoon!" he called out. He continued, speaking much louder than necessary to be heard by his lone table-guest. The speaker's opinion was obviously meant to be heard by everyone in the room. He followed up his opening insult with a volley of untruths about Barack. He finally closed his outburst with, "Do you know what his (Obama's) energy policy is? A tire gauge! Keeping tires inflated is his energy policy!" The man trailed off into silence. This kind of self-imposed ignorance is generally not persuadable so I didn't try. Clearly, he had been regurgitating FOX NEWS lies about Barack.
    I do not write this to enlighten that offender. I write this to educate those he offended. This is the truth about Barack Obama's energy policy.
    Barack intends to provide short-term relief to American Families by enacting a windfall profits tax. It will provide a $1,000 emergency energy rebate to American families. Barack will crack down on excessive energy speculation. He will use oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to help cut prices.
    Barack Obama wants to eliminate our need for Middle Eastern and Venezuelan oil within 10 Years. He will do this by increasing fuel economy standards. Barack will call for 1 million plug-in hybrid cars on the road by 2015. Barack will create a new $7,000 tax credit for purchasing advanced vehicles. He will establish a national low-carbon fuel standard and a "Use it or Lose It" approach to existing oil and gas leases. He will promote the responsible domestic production of oil and natural gas.
    Barack Obama's full energy policy paper is some eight pages long. It can be obtained online.
    If we as a nation are to make things better, we must avoid partisan attacks. We need facts. Truth in hand, I trust the American people to make the right choice this coming fall.


    OK OK OK (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:48:41 PM EST
    Thanks for putting everything in bold.
    It lets us know you really really really mean whatever it is you're saying about "Barack" and his plans for 2015.

    Parent
    A visitation. (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:49:28 PM EST
    You have no shame, freethinker (1.00 / 0) (#118)
    by Upstart Crow on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:41:48 PM EST
    No conscience and no shame.

    How so? (2.33 / 3) (#142)
    by freethinker25 on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:10 PM EST
    I don't see any rational logic to this vitriol toward Obama. Its reminiscent of Republican hate of Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton the candidate lost, I can understand the frustration and anger, but what I can't understand is the tossing aside of every ideal that she fought for just because of some perceived or real slight towards her. She must feel 200x the pain that you feel in losing the election, but she realizes that with Mccain in office everything that she spent 19 + months fighting for will be at least another 4 years out of reach, and keep in mind, nothing 4 years from now is guaranteed.

    Parent
    Breaking News:Obama did hold foreign affairs (none / 0) (#72)
    by jawbone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:30:26 PM EST
    subcommittee meeting! Update your files and no loger state he never convened his subcommittee!

    From ABC News, 7/17/2008.

    Sen. Jim DeMint, R-SC, the ranking member on that committee, which is chaired by Sen. Obama, wrote earlier this week requesting that Obama hold a hearing after his upcoming trip to Afghanistan, where NATO countries are currently engaged.
    SNIP
    But the Committee chairman, and Obama's guardian-in-chief where it comes to foreign policy, Sen. Joe Biden, shoots back in a letter sent last night to DeMint that there have been plenty of hearings on European Affairs, they've just been held at the "full committee level."

    "On the particular issue of NATO's mission in Afghanistan," writes Biden, "We have held three Full Committee hearings in the last 22 months: one under Senator Lugar's chairmanship (September 21, 2006: "From Coalition to ISAF Command in Afghanistan: The Purpose and Impact of the Transition"), and two under mine (March 8, 2007: "Afghanistan: Time for a New Strategy?" and January 21, 2008: "Afghanistan: A Plan to Turn the Tide?").  At all three of these hearings, we were fortunate enough to have the expert testimony--in addition to other witnesses, both in and out of government-- of former NATO commander and Supreme Allied Commander-Europe, Gen. James R. Jones (USMC, ret.). At my request, Senator Obama chaired the confirmation hearing for our next ambassador to NATO, which he focused on NATO's mission in Afghanistan."

    Aside: The Senate Foreign Relations Committee hasn't considered the role of NATO in Afghanistan since last January? In February, Biden called it the "Forgotten War," apparently for good reason.

    Biden goes on in last night's letter: "Senator Obama has displayed great leadership on this issue: he called nearly a year ago for the deployment of at least two additional combat brigades to Afghanistan -- it has since become the accepted position of a wide range of U.S. military officials, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.  I look forward to working closely with him, and with you, on any future Afghanistan hearings that might be held in our Committee."

    The issue of how many hearings have been held will become a prickly one if DeMint, as a McCain surrogate, pursues it. Sen. McCain has skipped nearly every Armed Services Committee Hearing even though he is the ranking member. And Sen. DeMint skipped the one hearing Obama did chair to consider some executive nominations.

    Thnx to MKS for alerting me to his having held meeting(s).

    Okay, then.

    Okay (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:35:29 PM EST
    so in 4 years he held one meeting.

    Parent
    Since January 2007 (none / 0) (#169)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:54:20 PM EST
    when he became chair of the subcommittee.....

    Also, held a hearing in March 2007 over the nomination of swiftboater Sam Fox to be Ambassador to Belgium.  Obama and Kerry jointly gave him a pretty good going over in the hearing, and Obama kept the nomination bottled up....Bush used a recess apppointment to get Fox appointed as Ambassador.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 07:16:16 PM EST
    so he has one meeting that he can talk about.

    Frankly, I'm amazed that someone close to my age has so little accomplishment in his life compared to so many others in our age group. This is probably why many people my age won't vote for Obama.

    Parent

    First subcommittee was on April 8, 2008 (none / 0) (#98)
    by jawbone on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:37:19 PM EST
    per this article in HuffPo.

    ...tomorrow morning, while Senators Hillary Clinton (low ranking Armed Services Dem) and John McCain (Ranking Armed Services Republican) are having their moment with Petraeus/Crocker, Sen. Obama will not be resting on his laurels while he waits for his afternoon appointment when the Petraeus/Crocker road show stops at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (where he sits low on the seniority list). Instead, he'll be chairing a subcommittee hearing on several nominations.


    Parent
    Currently I'm listening to L Cohen (none / 0) (#84)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:34:21 PM EST
    Theme songs now:
    Everybody Knows
    Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
    Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
    Everybody knows that the war is over
    Everybody knows the good guys lost
    Everybody knows the fight was fixed

    Closing Time
    and I missed you since the place got wrecked
    And I just don't care what happens next
    looks like freedom but it feels like death
    it's something in between, I guess
    it's CLOSING TIME

    If Obama wants me back, he'd best sing
    I'm Your Man

    If you want a lover
    Ill do anything you ask me to
    And if you want another kind of love
    Ill wear a mask for you
    If you want a partner
    Take my hand
    Or if you want to strike me down in anger
    Here I stand
    Im your man

    If you want a boxer
    I will step into the ring for you



    Great song! n/t (none / 0) (#144)
    by Paladin on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:31 PM EST
    Here's my congressman. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Maria Garcia on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:36:01 PM EST
    ...at least he's bashing Bush. I just hope he changed the subject from how much women need Barack Obama.

    Del Martin died today (none / 0) (#111)
    by MyLeftMind on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:40:10 PM EST
    Sadly, Del Martin, lesbian rights pioneer who took part in one of California's first same-sex weddings, died today in San Francisco.

    Del Martin and Phyllis Lyon were the first same sex couple to be married when San Fran Mayor Gavin Newsom allowed marriage licenses to be issued to gay and lesbian couples in defiance of CA state law.  They were both plaintiffs in the CA lawsuit that got the state ban on same-sex marriage lifted.  

    It's been a hard week.

    That's really sad (5.00 / 0) (#146)
    by DemForever on Wed Aug 27, 2008 at 06:47:45 PM EST
    I worked across the street from SF City Hall when the initial marriages were conducted, and watching folks stand in the rain, and the dark, for hours on end outside City Hall to finally have a chance to have their relationships officially acknowledged was one the most moving things I have ever experienced.   Some of my friends represented SF in challenging the marriage laws.  On the positive side, I am glad Del got to get married again after the Supreme Court decision.

    Parent