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NBC, CNN, FOX: McCain Picks Palin For VP

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:45:43 AM EST
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Update [2008-8-29 10:16:17 by Big Tent Democrat]: According to NBC, John Harwood is reporting that McCain has picked Sarah Palin as his VP.

If not Mitt Romney, then the Alaska Governor, Sarah Palin, makes the most sense for McCain in my opinion.

First and foremost, it would stop Obama's Media train in its tracks today. I have no idea what skeletons, if any, Palin has. Indeed, I know nothing about her really. But as a Media story, picking a woman would be huge.

Second, it revives the Hillary melodramas. And at this point, Obama does not need that.

We'll all know at 12.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< NBC: Lieberman In Dayton For McCain VP Announcement | Palin A Calculated Gamble For McCain >

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    NBC, CNN, FOX: McCain Picks Palin For VP | 215 comments (215 topical)
    Palin (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by elonepb on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:50:40 AM EST
    She's pro-life (maybe the only Republican woman in public office), lifelong member of the NRA, has 5 kids, and governs a state that is largely out of touch with what goes on in the 48.

    She's also involved in a nepotism scandal that wouldn't help her case.

    She also backfires on McCain's preaching of experience. She has none.

    Indeed (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:51:45 AM EST
    that is all to her benefit.

    Headline - A WOMAN!

    Subheadline for the base - She's One Of Us

    Perfect for McCain.

    Parent

    For one week (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:55:36 AM EST
    and then real life will overtake both campaigns.

    McCain is in a reactive mode to Obama. Obama is setting the agenda.

    Game to Obama.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#165)
    by Brookhaven on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:12 AM EST
    You have no idea how potent this pick is of a woman.  This is huge as BTD says.  HUGE, given what happened to HRC.  I can tell you this will resonate with many disaffected Clinton women and some men who thought she got a very stanky deal with the DNC.

    Parent
    Actions speak louder than words (none / 0) (#177)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:42:38 AM EST
    but as an issue voter they won't get my vote (or the vegan vote -- KBH is on tv joking about mooseburgers).

    Parent
    Politics (none / 0) (#191)
    by Brookhaven on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:46:10 AM EST
    is nothing if not emotional for men and women.  At the end of the day, most people react to things from their hearts not their heads both men and women.  If you don't get that you better start to right now.  

    Parent
    Not disputing that (none / 0) (#196)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:19 AM EST
    hence the need to stress the politics of contrast and make the choice real.

    By the way -- they've got a full house of the announcement.  I've never underestimated McCain's ability to tap into people's emotions.  People like him, I suspect they'll her.

    Parent

    Reactive Mode? (none / 0) (#185)
    by Brookhaven on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:44:29 AM EST
    Perhaps.  But, what was Biden then?  A reactive move because of what happened in Georgia.  There is no difference in that reactive argument.  They wipe each other out.

    Parent
    succinct and absolutely true (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:59:03 AM EST


    Parent
    She's also younger than ... (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04:51 AM EST
    Obama.

    Parent
    do your homework (4.00 / 2) (#51)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:07:27 AM EST
    She's immensely popular because she's fighting corruption in her own Party.  And, as I understand it, the nepotism scandal is weak tea being brewed by an Alaskan blogger who has sworn to take her down.

    If McCain picks Palin, he's playing not just smart politics, but BRILLIANT politics.

    Parent

    Yep..good move by McCain (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by ks on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:12 AM EST
    I have to laugh at the hardcore Obama "supporters" here who are sowing their special brand of "unity".   I'm not voting for McCain but picking Palin is a remarkably shrewd move.  It takes the headline away from Obama right after his historic night, shores up his base and "maverick" image.  The, for lack of  better words, "Hillary related stuff" is just a bonus.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 0) (#136)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:30:03 AM EST
    I'm very taken by McCain abilities.  When he went after Obama's celebrity, it was very Rovian.  Take the other guys strength and make it a weakness.  If McCain names Palin as his VP, it will strengthen his "old" with a very young VP. He carries the experience, just as if Hillary had taken Obama as his VP.  McCain congratulated Obama yesterday.  That showed class.  McCain is doing amazingly well despite the hole the Republicans are in.

    Parent
    if McCain wins, (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by sancho on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:38:44 AM EST
    and I dont know that he will,  with Palin as Vp then it means that Hillary would have won handily. This choice, right or wrong, is certainlya stinign critique of the DNC and Obama's risky gender politics.

    Parent
    it sickens me (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:23 AM EST
    that the Republicans, with their history, will quite probably make history by having the first Female VP.

    But the DNC and the Obama Camp unnecessarily created a hole big enough to drive a Mac Truck through ... and McCain did at full speed.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#181)
    by BigB on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:43:44 AM EST
    This is a brilliant politics from McCain. Sarah Palin is a reformer in Alaska and it fits with McCain's reformer credentials.

    She is also a Governor and an outsider and has more executive experience than Obama, Biden, and McCain all put together.

    Parent

    From what I read somewhere... (none / 0) (#119)
    by NWHiker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:13 AM EST
    ... she's apparently not as much of a neanderthal on gay rights and some other R party members.

    It certainly wouldn't make me vote McCain (I'm pretty sure nothing would, just like nothing will make me vote Obama), but I'm pretty sure that despite the fact that everything Sarah Palin beleives is at odds with my beliefs, I'd feel good, as a woman, that she was selected. Not for long, because of what woman she is, but there would be a moment of satisfaction.

    Just a gut feeling, especially after the misogyny of the Obama campaign, and Rs in general.

    Parent

    info on Palin - (none / 0) (#182)
    by Josey on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:43:46 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/5dgkxo


    Parent
    She smoked pot when it was legal (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:52:43 AM EST
    She has a very compelling personal story..including a recent birth of a Downs syndrome child.  a former Miss Alaska (or something like that)

    contrary to popular belief (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:58:08 AM EST
    that fact that she gets up at midnight to go hunt moose is going to be a plus too.

    Parent
    yeah, (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04:37 AM EST
    the recent birth of her child who has Downs Syndrome is even more impressive in light of the fact she returned to work THREE days later!

    The power of a Palin pick should not be underestimated.

    Parent

    This place is so funny (3.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:08:18 AM EST
    you guys really will stop at nothing to gloom and doom the Obama candidacy. Everything's good for McCain, bad for Obama, and it's all Obama's fault.

    I differ strongly with Jeralyn's obsession with preemptive censorship, but I completely agree with her that you guys need to get a life.

    Parent

    I said in the other thread (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:12:33 AM EST
    this pick will assure my vote for Obama.
    if you read my comments here that is no small thing.
    and I have a life thanks.


    Parent
    If he picks Palin, you will vote (none / 0) (#121)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:50 AM EST
    Obama? Is that what you said?

    Parent
    most likely (none / 0) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:31:50 AM EST
    she is extremely right wing.  rabidly pro life.
    I saw a comment about her stance on gay rights upthread that interested me.
    we will see.
    but probably yes.  she will probably get my vote for the O man.
    but he will still lose.

    Parent
    I've read (just this a.m. mind you) (none / 0) (#166)
    by angie on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:17 AM EST
    that she vetoed anti-gay legislation in AL & supporters benefits for gay partners (but, of course, not gay marriage -- but then neither does Obama).

    Parent
    Captain, (none / 0) (#171)
    by theybannedmeinboston on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:11 AM EST
    If McCain chooses her, check out her stance on gay rights and benefits. As right wing as she is, she may surprise you.  I'm not trying to change your mind about voting for Obama, BTW. I'm just trying to make you not so bummed if McCain wins.

    Parent
    I will (none / 0) (#193)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:47:52 AM EST
    dont worry, but thanks for the heads up

    Parent
    Naw (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:20:55 AM EST
    we're just not into cheerleading. Been there done that. It's a huge letdown. I'd rather deal with reality. If promoting rational discussion is all "gloom and doom" then we're in bad shape. Apparently you didn't read the threads with all the praise for Obama's speech last night did you? Almost everybody here thought it was great, including me. It's a step in the right direction. As far as I go, I have a real trust issue with Obama. It's something that he'll have to work on with me and other voters. Pretending that he doesn't have some problems doesn't help him any.

    Parent
    She has no relevant experience (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by litigatormom on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:16:57 AM EST
    She's been a governor of the smallest (population-wise) state in the union for a couple of years, and before that a mayor of a small town.

    And she's going to be the VP for the oldest president in history whose had melanoma several times?

    Not to mention she's probably sold off ANWAR directly to Cindy.

    Parent

    are you sure dems want to run on experience (5.00 / 7) (#95)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:18:25 AM EST
    this year? Just saying.

    Parent
    But she has "judgment"... (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by pmj6 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:20:03 AM EST
    Oh, I forgot: Only Obama gets a pass on having no relevant experience. Even though he's on top of the ticket.

    Parent
    That's an argument that doesn't hold water (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by tigercourse on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:20:13 AM EST
    when out PRESIDENTIAL candidate only has slightly more experience. Pointing out that Palin doesn't have enough experience to be President would likely put Obama in a bit of a bind.

    Parent
    Rovian Trap (none / 0) (#208)
    by robrecht on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:56:11 AM EST
    She has more executive experience than Obama

    Parent
    Rovian Trap (none / 0) (#209)
    by robrecht on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:57:23 AM EST
    She has more executive experience than Obama

    Parent
    many will think (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:20:13 AM EST
    she has as much experience that matters as the top of the democratic ticket.

    Parent
    The key point is that it destroys McCain's (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by JoeA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:20 AM EST
    primary narrative about experience.  How can he attack Obama for being inexperienced when he has chosen a VP like Palin.  

    Ok, so Palin is the VP and Obama is on top of the ticket,  but McCain's age (72), history of cancer, all mean that his VP pick is going to face much greater scrutiny on the issue of being ready to be President. I think the Palin pick is certainly high risk for McCain,  though possibly higher reward vs. the "safer" picks of Pawlenty or Romney.

    Parent

    It also destroys Obama's argument (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:32:25 AM EST
    that he's for "outside Washington" and "new politics".  Alaska is about as far outside of Washington as you can get, and the fact that she took on her OWN party to clean up corruption will play well with voters.

    Besides, with her background, she seems like a "normal" person and plays into the "Obama is an elitist and out of touch" Washington insider.

    Parent

    it allows every one to re-evaluate (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:41 AM EST
    his candidacy, especially women. Whether they vote for him or not, it was a great move.

    Parent
    bingo. (none / 0) (#184)
    by jeffhas on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:44:11 AM EST


    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#138)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:30:16 AM EST
    two words:  "Executive Experience" - you know - she's actually done something.

    Parent
    Executive experience? (none / 0) (#142)
    by JoeA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:31:47 AM EST
    You mean like GW Bush?  Governer of a small state for a couple of years?

    If executive experience is a pre-requisite then you just ruled out McCain as well.

    Parent

    And (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:43 AM EST
    GW won, remember?

    Parent
    and that's somehow a good thing? (none / 0) (#160)
    by JoeA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:39:27 AM EST
    80% plus believe the country is on the wrong track after 8 years of Bush,  I don't think a VP with a resume thinner than than W's is going to bolster an "experience" ticket.

    Parent
    voters love governors (none / 0) (#145)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:33:45 AM EST
    she will be the only non washington insider in the race.
    it matters

    Parent
    Sorry, I can't pass on that (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by ineedalife on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:40 AM EST
    2 years experience as governor and 4(?) as mayor is 6 more years of executive experience than Obama has. And Biden too for that matter. And you say that is not enough for a VP? But zero years is enough for the President? Curious.

    Parent
    Mayor of Wasilla - Population 5,400 (none / 0) (#206)
    by JoeA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:54:46 AM EST
    6 years of executive experience?  Now that's some serious resume padding.

    Parent
    McCain's had melonomas (none / 0) (#126)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:15 AM EST
    and Joe Biden has had two aneurysms and I haven't heard any medical problems with Obama. So what?

    Parent
    A bit of info on Palin... (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Idunn on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:52:47 AM EST
    She's a moderate populist conservative. Came to attention for blowing the whistle on corruption in Alaska government. Very strong on ethics reform.

    She's currently under a state probe for, I believe , abuse of office. Her response? "Hold me accountable." My personal feeling is that the probe is nothing more than political payback for helping take down the likes of Ted Stevens.

    That's all I really know about her.

    Only bad thing about framing everything around (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:56:19 AM EST
    "candidate McCain" as opposed to "Senator McCain" is that it reminds everyone of the Senator McCain they know and love.  Bringing somebody like Palin would remind people of ethics-reform-maverick stuff.

    Parent
    She also has her own little power scandal (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:53:53 AM EST
    Not sure choosing her is such a good idea for McCain. Might bring into  question his judgment at 72.

    Gov. Sarah Palin, a rising young GOP star mentioned as a possible running mate for John McCain, could see her clean-hands reputation damaged by a growing furor over whether she tried to get her former brother-in-law fired as a state trooper.
    A legislative panel has launched a $100,000 investigation to determine if Palin dismissed Alaska's public safety commissioner because he would not fire the trooper, Mike Wooten. Wooten went through a messy divorce from Palin's sister.
    Palin has denied the commissioner's dismissal had anything to do with her former brother-in-law. And she denied orchestrating the dozens of telephone calls made by her husband and members of her administration to Wooten's bosses.
    Well (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by dk on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:01:58 AM EST
    I'm not saying that, even if actual proof was found for the allegations, that it would be a good thing.  But, if that's the biggest scandal on her that anyone could come up with, that's pretty weak tea.

     

    Parent

    As I recall (none / 0) (#108)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:22:36 AM EST
    abuse of power brought down Richard Nixon.

    You Ok with having your soon to be ex brother-in-law fired because he had the bad sense to divorce your sister?

    Haven't we had enough of use of power for personal gain?

    Parent

    Well, but of course (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by dk on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:51 AM EST
    that will open the door for the stuff about Biden's lobbyist son.  And really, in the grand scheme of things, that is worse, isn't it?

    Parent
    Scandalous Analogies (none / 0) (#169)
    by eustiscg on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:00 AM EST
    I think the weakness of this scandal is exactly what makes it so evocative.  Did she use the governorship to essentially smear Vaseline all over door-knob of that mean boy that divorced her sister and bff?

    If it had been millions in bribes: case closed, old-style corruption.  But this just seems petty and ill-tempered (something which fits well with a caricature of McCain that the Dems are starting to push).

    See what I mean?

    Parent

    Scandalous Analogies (none / 0) (#174)
    by eustiscg on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:28 AM EST
    I think the weakness of this scandal is exactly what makes it so evocative.  Did she use the governorship to essentially smear Vaseline all over door-knob of that mean boy that divorced her sister and bff?

    If it had been millions in bribes: case closed, old-style corruption.  But this just seems petty and ill-tempered (something which fits well with a caricature of McCain that the Dems are starting to push).

    See what I mean?

    Parent

    Sorry for the double post (none / 0) (#180)
    by eustiscg on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:43:18 AM EST
    This site's been acting a bit wonky on me.

    Parent
    Why don't more people see this pick, (3.66 / 3) (#23)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:58:45 AM EST
    should it be her, as the desperate move it so obviously is?

    McCain's only hope is to peel away some HRC supporters with a pick with similar genitalia?

    Pretty pathetic move, don't ya think? I do.

    Parent

    Genitalia? Using terms like (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:05:46 AM EST
    that is so pretty pathically childish!

    Parent
    It's a pretty scientific term (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:06:50 AM EST
    plenty of others I could have used but didn't, yes?

    Parent
    I use "gonads". (none / 0) (#57)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:16 AM EST
    It's a more non specific term and doesn't conjure up the same images.  "Gonadal fortitude" is a reasonable alternative to the more common phrase.

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:07:43 AM EST
    let's be honest. Obama largely created the opportunity for this to happen with his campaign's treatment of Hillary and her supporters. They spent the entire summer doing nothing positive to get them on board and issued threats like "you have nowhere else to go".

    So, if it benefits McCain, it's largely because there was a big gaping hole for him to run a truck through.

    Parent

    Just move on (2.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:08:46 AM EST
    It's important.

    Parent
    Either take the time to refute (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Landulph on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:12 AM EST
    other posters, or stop badgering them. People have the right to discuss whatever they chose, and your comments are not helpful.

    Parent
    He won't (none / 0) (#112)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:23:46 AM EST
    so don't bother.

    Parent
    Exactly! (none / 0) (#154)
    by Josey on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:36:48 AM EST
    when Obama "brushed Hillary off" the bottom of his shoe and laughed along with the crowds, I just cringed - knowing women all over America would be incensed by his childish crass behavior.
    But Obama was only focused on the laughs he got from those particular crowds - and couldn't see the damage he was perpetrating. And he lost several primaries after that.
    Oh - and the finger - and "sweetie" remarks were biggies too.


    Parent
    if it is Palin - (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Josey on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:11:38 AM EST
    it would be a partial indication that PUMAs aren't as small as the pundits insist.


    Parent
    big surprise there (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:13:36 AM EST


    Parent
    It might be nice to let us wimmen folk (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by angie on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:16:48 AM EST
    find out who she is/what she is about before we decide whether she is a "good" choice or not -- you know, it is possible that she might just be qualified to be McCain's VP despite her "genitalia."  

    Parent
    well, considering that his VP pick (4.60 / 5) (#61)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:31 AM EST
    was based solely on genitalia, I think some women would be fine with that, don't you?

    Parent
    Not only pathetic (none / 0) (#200)
    by Jjc2008 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:51 AM EST
    INSULTING.......

    It would be the same as if Obama had picked Sebelius. Except for a minute percentage of angry HRC supporters, for most of us, the notion that ANY woman would satisfy us is NONSENSE.

    And frankly when the first woman becomes president I want it to be a woman who is a lifelong liberal who believe in the values like I do.  This woman is against the things I believe in...I worked for Hillary because I believed in Hillary as a liberal, as a hard working intelligent being who happen to have the same physiology as me.

    Parent

    I think this was uncalled for (none / 0) (#217)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:13:59 AM EST
    a pick with similar genitalia?
    Maybe that is his reason to pick a female, and I could agree with you, but I do not think talking about our body differences is the way to state it. Especially from a Richard.IMO only.

    Parent
    AP is reporting GOP sources: Palin (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:05:38 AM EST
    Link

    Palin would also be a compelling choice for McCain's argument on non-reliance of foreign oil, drilling in ANWAR, ect.

    michael palin (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:17 AM EST
    would be more fun.

    i do wonder if picking sarah palin might not create an opportunity for the media to discuss the corruption of alaska goopers. then again,...

    but the media would be (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:15:45 AM EST
    discussing the corruption of Alaskan politics in the frame of how Sarah Palin has cracked down on it.  That's what makes her as popular as she is, the cracking down on corruption in her own Party.

    Parent
    funny thing (none / 0) (#92)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:17:13 AM EST
    i thought it was the feds who cracked down...

    Parent
    but didnt she run against (none / 0) (#117)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:03 AM EST
    the corruption and win in a primary?

    Parent
    but did she actually do anything? (none / 0) (#123)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:26:31 AM EST
    has she had anything to say about stevens and young?

    Parent
    Michael Palin, I could vote for that. (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by JoeA on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:12 AM EST
    Get some Dead Parrot sketch action going on.

    Parent
    but that could create a political firestorm (none / 0) (#197)
    by Turkana on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:28 AM EST
    over who deserves the credit- palin or cleese!

    Parent
    Palin..not to get Hillary voters (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:19 AM EST
    Palin would help keep GOP women and to keep interest going on the GOP side.

    While more conservative -she would make the race more interesting for people like Christy Todd Whitman (who as her own PAC) and others shut out by the Bush cabal.  

    I think that's a good point (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:22:01 AM EST
    It will get out the vote among conservative and right-leaning Independent women.

    Most of the PUMAs I have read are not voting for McCain - they are just skipping the top of the ticket or going Green. This is not going to change their minds.  If McCain thinks it will, he is insulting them further.

    Parent

    Palin may turn out to be the Geraldine Ferraro (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by tigercourse on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:14:17 AM EST
    of this race. "He's going to lose anyway, might as well go for something slightly historic".

    Of course, I think McCain has a much better chance then Mondale.

    I've thought that Romney would be the best choice. If they don't pick him, I'm sure it's because internal polls don't show him helping enough in Michigan or out west.

    I have been talking Palin (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by americanincanada on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:17:15 AM EST
    for months. There is more toher than just being a woman. Read her bio, read how she resigned from a job because of corruption only to be blown off by the then repub gov. She faded and then came back to beat that gov for the election.

    She has fought corruption, has energy chops, and her bio is compelling.

    I knew we hadto be worried about her and today I bet Obama is.

    Good point (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:18:07 AM EST
    Biden is a family man.  So is Palin.  Cancels that one out.  Obama has a good story.  So does Palin.  It will be interesting to see how the details balance out with the two tickets.

    Not to mention (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by americanincanada on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:20:23 AM EST
    the phrase 'executive experience'. You can bet the McCain camp, if they make this pick, are ready for every possible negative attack.

    She is a strong candidate, woman or no, and I think this is a game changer.

    We need to stop throwing barbs and start thinking about what this means and how to fight it. Bickering and b*tching about the pick and what it means if people cross party lines to vote for it won't help defeat it.

    Parent

    It's as cynical as picking (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by robrecht on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:23:21 AM EST
    Clarence Thomas because he's black and Harriett Myers because she's a woman.  Hillary supporters are way too smart for this, but this choice is intended to energize the Republican base and (especially conservative) women in general.  Will it work?  It could work?  Please tell me it cannot work.

    Doubt it will work (none / 0) (#129)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:21 AM EST
    And it  has its downsides, but McCain is in desperate straits.

    Parent
    Biden has his downsides. (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:39:33 AM EST
    As many have said, we vote top of the ticket, not the vp pick?! Think this will make a strong ticket.

    Parent
    IF TRUE, I think this is a canny move by McCain... (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by Southsider on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:23:49 AM EST
    ...and not because it's intended to suck in disaffected HRC voters.  It's a game-changer.  It's exactly the sort of "maverick" move he always likes to make - not "maverick" in the real sense but definitely in the expectations-flummoxing sense.  I've followed both parties' veepstakes pretty closely and I never thought Palin had a chance.  I think she'll make a much more formidable V-P candidate than a lot of people do: good biography, good political instincts (her base adores her), and Biden won't really be able to pummel her without looking like a cad.

    Moreover, from a process point of view I give the McCain team massive credit for keeping this secret for so long.  Biden was leaking very soon after it was finalized.  Meanwhile, we literally have no friggin' idea who it will REALLY be until very recently.  I was totally fooled by the Pawlenty headfake.

    don't forget that (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:29:28 AM EST
    alllllllll over the news it's Palin, Palin, Palin.

    Obama's Best Speech E-vah is relegated to the "Oh?  He made a speech?"

    Parent

    Yup, the McCain team seems to have effectively... (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Southsider on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:42:48 AM EST
    ...sucked up the media oxygen.

    And now it looks official for Palin.

    Gotta say, this was a damn effective counterintelligence operation.  A lot of people lost a lot of money on InTrade. :-)

    Parent

    Hit the nail right on the head (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:03:37 AM EST
    "not "maverick" in the real sense but definitely in the expectations-flummoxing sense"

    Exactly right, IMHO.

    Have to wait to see how it all plays out, but I think this is an absolutely brilliant move in the purest sense of the chess game of politics.

    Parent

    And, I hope this doesn't get me into trouble... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Southsider on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:26:37 AM EST
    ...but speaking strictly as a guy, she's totally cute.  Not affecting my vote either way, but wowsa.

    Parent
    Uh-oh - Chris Matthews will have to (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:30:51 AM EST
    ask Biden how it feels to debate a woman. Good thing he already debated Hillary.

    Parent
    The politics of contrast (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:18 AM EST
    will be increasingly needed if McCain picks Palin -- issues versus identity politics (one can hope).

    I hope he does pick Palin then (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:29:06 AM EST
    Keep Obama on the Politics of Contrast track.

    Vigilence!

    Parent

    Breaking news He already picked her! (none / 0) (#146)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:33:50 AM EST


    Parent
    Prediction: (5.00 / 9) (#140)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:31:03 AM EST
    You won't see republicans buying Palin nutcrackers and giggling about it.

    Oh, what a strange world.

    No. (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:35:53 AM EST
    But you know why and I know why.  It wasn't about being female.  It was about being the media's punching bag for decades.  That's why Hillary was so cautious and deliberate during the primary.  Her assumption was not of favorable media attention or neutral coverage, but of actively hostile media reaction.

    If this primary was a comic book, Hillary would be portrayed as Lex Luthor.  

    Parent

    CNN confirms its Palin (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Redshoes on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:38:35 AM EST
    from senior McCain campaign official -- the Maverick makes a move.  
    Obama's Waterloo? (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:44 AM EST
    I've posted more than once that not picking Hilary could very well be Obama's Waterloo

    Too late. (none / 0) (#187)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:45:10 AM EST
    And the Palin pick is definitely reactionary.  If it had been Obama/Clinton then I can't imagine Palin.  It would just lead to constant comparisons between the women, and Hillary sets the bar very high.

    Parent
    If he plays this right.... (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by p lukasiak on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:48:09 AM EST
    ...it really could make it a game changer.

    And I think he's about to redefine the GOP as a "Big Tent" party --- and a party that is looking toward the future.

    A Palin pick sends the message "Its not your grandfathers -- or George W Bush's -- GOP anymore."  

    I suspect that McCain is also going to project the "we're a party that celebrates our diversity of opinion, and doesn't insult those who are part of our party with false displays of unity" message.  He'll make sure that there is dissent -- there will be a COMPLETE roll call with votes reflecting the sentiments of the voters themselves, etc....

    here we go (none / 0) (#213)
    by americanincanada on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:01:24 AM EST
    Expect the bitter and clinging to guns comment to be revived. Also expect basketball jokes to become all the rage, Sarah lead her high school team to a state championship. They called her SArah Barracuda back then.

    This is going to be very interesting. I have no doubt this has been in the works for a long time, she began being vetted in June, and the McCain camp is ready.

    Sarah's oldest son probably won't be there today, I think he is serving in Iraq.

    Parent

    Obama will just have to win without (3.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:51:08 AM EST
    the hardcore HRC supporters, then. I was one of those, but I'm also a realist and have half a brain. I can see that choosing McCain would be far more disastrous than just sucking it up and voting for Obama.

    That's (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:03:15 AM EST
    the case that Obama will have to continue to make to the public. He's wasted literally months NOT doing that. Is it too late to start now? We'll have to see.

    Parent
    I hope it is Palin (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by pmj6 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:21:29 AM EST
    I could get behind a McCain-Palin ticket. In fact, that's about the only combo I can think of that would do the trick.

    Parent
    I can't do that (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:28:58 AM EST
    but it definitely gets me interested in the campaign.

    I am stunned if it's true.  I expected Obama would do something that was different, that he had the support that would allow him to do so.  I expected McCain would go a safe route.  

    Last night was a huge political event.  Palin is more of an outsider than Obama.  The more down to earth ticket may appeal.

    Parent

    Same here.... (none / 0) (#212)
    by p lukasiak on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:59:33 AM EST
    I've been saying that I won't vote for McCain, because all I saw was "negatives" about him.  The Palin pick suggests that McCain may be looking to redefine the GOP, and take it out of the hands of neanderthals.  If he goes that route, it will be hard to resist not voting for McCain, because a GOP that is moving toward the center is "progress" toward a progressive agenda in my book.

    Parent
    Not only am I (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Jjc2008 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:05 AM EST
    supporting Obama because I am a realist and have brains, the notion that the majority of democratic women who supported Hillary will support ANY female is nonsensical and a slap in the fact to women.  That' like saying AA voters could have supported ANY African American......regardless of issues.

    That's why choosing "ANY woman other than Hillary" would have backfired on Obama.  Yes, it is significant for women to someday see a woman in the Oval Office.  And yes, if being VP first is the road to get there....fine.  But not all women are the same.  And a woman who is NOT a liberal demcrat, who does not share my values and does not have the leadership skills is a wash.  

    I do think there are a miniscule percentage of PUMA women who will not vote Obama no matter what.  The majority of them will not vote McCain either no matter who he chooses...the will probably vote the Green Party or not vote the top of the ticket.

    As I said last night here and other places, it is time for me to let go of my anger, my hurt and frustration and move foreward.  Not only because Obama invited me back; not only because Hillary urged me to do so....but because I am a liberal democrat and there is no way ever I could or would do anything to allow the WH to be given to this anti choice, anti union, anti public education, anti health care changes.....

    I am not only NOT stupid enough, stubborn enough to go to the right, or to be duped by "Look I picked a woman..."  
    Nonsense....


    Parent

    If women really do lose this thing for us (2.33 / 3) (#65)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:10:30 AM EST
    by voting for McCain out of spite, I will cease being a feminist.

    I don't think that would be (5.00 / 11) (#70)
    by dk on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:11:53 AM EST
    too difficult for you, Jim J.  I'm pretty sure no one on this board thinks you are a feminist now.

    Parent
    really! (5.00 / 8) (#80)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:14:23 AM EST
    what a loss to 'feminism' Jim J is.

    Parent
    Heh. (5.00 / 7) (#115)
    by dk on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:00 AM EST
    Yes, what will the feminist cause do without Jim J leading the charge?  I mean, isn't feminism all about ordering people to vote his preferences, and threatening them if they don't willing follow his instructions?  Who will replace him?

    Parent
    Daddy Knows Best (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:38:06 AM EST
    I'm inherently anti-authoritarian, so that and "It's for your own good!" aggravate me more than anything.

    Parent
    any woman will due long as its a woman right? (2.00 / 1) (#189)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:45:17 AM EST


    Parent
    If Obama loses, do to the (5.00 / 6) (#125)
    by Radix on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:13 AM EST
    female vote, he has no one to blame but himself, period.

    Parent
    PUMA (1.28 / 7) (#113)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:23:48 AM EST
    one thing is true   PUMA's would forget all about Hillary  and go all out for McCain if he picks her.  Hillary  stated to vote obama if u believe in democratic ideals...

    but they just want a woman in the white house...dont matter who...to hell with democratic ideals

    and what a way to USE a woman  to get what he wants if McCain pics Her.... amazing

    interesting though

    I can just see the TV ads (none / 0) (#1)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:49:56 AM EST
     

        Obama shuns women for his VP choice.  I did not.

        I am John McCain and I approve this message

    Pretty thin gruel (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:54:41 AM EST
    on which to base a presidential campaign, don't ya think?

    Obama was right last night. It's too big an election for small ideas. People know this.

    They'll realize it anew after Gustav hits land and gas spikes up to $4 a gallon again.

    Palin is a flash in the pan who won't matter one whit past this weekend.

    Parent

    democrats being the party of sexism (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:57:22 AM EST
    is not a 'small idea'.

    The only reason Hillary is not VP is sexism.

    Parent

    I saw your comment... (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:05:06 AM EST
    ...on the overnight thread where you were claiming that the Republicans would be the first party to nominate a woman for VP if they selected Palin.  

    For one so worried about sexism, it is puzzling that you seemingly have forgotten all about Geraldine Ferraro.  How convenient.

    Parent

    oh, i forgot that (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:06:19 AM EST
    thanks for the correction

    Parent
    she probably means (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:06:32 AM EST
    the first actual VP.  not the first nominee.
    just guessing.

    Parent
    Why don't you go read the post... (none / 0) (#53)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:08:03 AM EST
    ...instead of guessing?

    Parent
    cause I know the doc pretty well (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:11:19 AM EST


    Parent
    yes, that's what i meant, thanks (none / 0) (#62)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:10:07 AM EST
    I misspoke about 'nomination'. And I do think it won't happen with democrats.

    Parent
    I agree with that last part (4.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:59:48 AM EST
    and realize I'm bucking the tide on this objectively anti-Obama website.

    But frankly if HRC supporters can be so easily swayed by a GOP VP pick based purely on gender, they weren't serious Democrats to begin with.

    Yes?

    Parent

    this is not just about Hillary supporters (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:01:10 AM EST
    in fact its not even primarily about Hillary supporters


    Parent
    Bull (none / 0) (#44)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:05:59 AM EST
    the only reason McCain would pick Palin is as a transparently cynical attempt to peel away HRC supporters.

    Come on, make some sense.

    Parent

    Palin will not get more than (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:10:39 AM EST
    half the hardcore Hillary supporters.   she is to right wing.  she is extremely conservative and rabidly prolife.
    this is about the OTHER women.  independents mostly.
    sure, this woman would not be the pick if Hillary was not in the mix.  but its not all about Hillary "supporters"


    Parent
    The woman is hard line anti-choice. (none / 0) (#202)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:52:05 AM EST
    If Palin gets Clinton supporters - then they have NO clue who Hillary Clinton is or what she stood for.

    Parent
    It's a bold move. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:15:56 AM EST
    It would grab media attention and play one Historic Ticket against another.  And as long as Palin was conservative enough, the GOP base wouldn't make much noise.  

    Parent
    Obama picked his VP on gender (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by catfish on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:45:00 AM EST
    or so a lot of people said he should "no, an African American and a woman on the same ticket? Too risky."

    Thanks. Get to the back of the bus, women.

    Parent

    No - insulting (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:01:22 AM EST
    And when will people learn it's not just about 'being democrats'? Many female democrats couldn't give a crap about democrats anymore after what they witnessed.

    Parent
    Ferror Dr Molly (none / 0) (#73)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:12:29 AM EST
    Dr Molly  dont run from the comment u made in the other thread  that the DEMS should be ashamed that they never nominated a woman VP

    You did Geraldine Ferraro a huge disservice

    Parent

    not running - already said (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:13:42 AM EST
    i made a mistake.

    but go ahead and assume the worst, i don't give a sh!t what you think.

    Parent

    Or she really didn't want to be VP (none / 0) (#122)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:25:40 AM EST


    Parent
    Don't underestimate the passion that exist. (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:58:16 AM EST


    Parent
    If HRC supporters end up voting GOP (3.66 / 3) (#28)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:00:16 AM EST
    because of a VP pick, they weren't Democrats at all.

    Parent
    tautology (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:01:45 AM EST


    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#40)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:05:02 AM EST


    Parent
    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Mike H on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:06 AM EST
    No, Jim, I wouldn't go that far.  I think the emotional reality of -- yet again -- a younger, less experienced MAN being picked over the older, more experienced WOMAN -- within the very party that is supposed to be supportive of equality -- feels like a violation of all the energy and loyalty that these people have put into the party over all these years.

    Now, I think that Hillary, Bill, and Barack have done a wonderful job this past week, laying out all the reasons we should be on the same team.  And I, for one at least, have been convinced.  I still believe Hillary would be a great president, and I still believe that many of Obama's online supporters are knuckle-dragging neanderthals who make Freepers look like Ghandi... but I decided this week that I wouldn't let the actions of SOME of Obama's supporters prevent me from supporting Obama.

    Not after Hillary's impassioned pleas for support, nor Bill's masterful speech outlining what's at stake, and especially not after Obama's acceptance speech last night.

    I still disagree with a lot of Obama's supporters, and don't think very highly of them, but they, and the hard feelings they are trying to keep going, don't matter as much as the direction our country needs to take.  

    But, trust me, Jim... calling still-recalcitrant Hillary supporters names, assuming they aren't "real" democrats... only continues a division that really shouldn't exist at this point.  There's still plenty of time for them to come around, let's not set up any barriers to prevent them from doing so.

    Parent

    "real democrats" (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by aquarian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:16:41 AM EST
    always makes me laugh.  Yes, I voted for Hillary, and I am still on the fence about who to vote for in November.  I guess that makes me a "bad democrat."  Funnily enough, since I am an independent, I am also a "bad republican."  I guess since we don't have a convention, we are invisible.

    I don't know the numbers of independent voters but I am guessing both candidates are making a play for us.  

    Parent

    Sounds like you've decided on McCain (1.33 / 6) (#76)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:13:21 AM EST
    Good luck with that. Don't expect any sympathy from me as your country continues to go down the toilet.

    I guess the other blogs are right, this really is PUMA central here.

    Just get over it and move on already! This is important stuff. It's not about you or Hillary. It's about your country!

    Parent

    If you care about your country (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:14:35 AM EST
    you'll stop posting here and sowing discord.

    Parent
    i never belived alot of them were dems anyway (none / 0) (#132)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:28:51 AM EST


    Parent
    Jim J, Gustav might destroy land, (none / 0) (#64)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:10:21 AM EST
    people,homes, businesses, etc. and you're only worried about the possibility of $4/gas and all this due to McCain possibly picking Palin? By the way, I'm in Tx where Gustav might hit. Believe me, I'm not worried that the price of my gas might go up, not yet anyway!

    Parent
    You willfully misinterpret my point (none / 0) (#71)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:11:57 AM EST
    I'll not be talking to you anymore. You know what I meant, it was clearly written.

    Parent
    Me thinks you doth protest too (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:02 AM EST
    much. If Obama's position is sooooo strong, why are you railing and seemingly so upset if indeed McCain picks a woman? P.S. The way you phrased regarding Gustav was not clear at all to me. Please don't assume every word you write is interpreted the way you meant it.

    Parent
    Ruh Roh, if she's the pick things are gonna (none / 0) (#3)
    by vicndabx on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:51:01 AM EST
    get interesting.

    Might be a good choice (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dave B on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:51:50 AM EST
    But it looks desperate to me.

    McCain is looking to bring in the Hillary voters and beat Democrats over the head about energy issues.

    desperate? (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:00:06 AM EST
    McCain probably hopes Obamans come out with this.
    the women will love it.
    its brilliant.
    he just won the election if its true.

    Parent
    good grief (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:00:58 AM EST
    nobody ever won an election with a VP pick.

    Parent
    until now (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:01:46 AM EST


    Parent
    Most people believe that ... (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:06:23 AM EST
    LBJ delivered Texas for JFK through ... um ... various means.

    Parent
    True. (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:12:10 AM EST
    Obama could have.

    No matter what anyone else says, I was with BTD on that.  Picking Clinton would have been a huge strategic boost.

    Parent

    McCain, unlike Obama has been (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:12:42 AM EST
    courting Hillary voters since Obama rejected her and then. So, this is not new behavior whether it's Palin or not.

    Parent
    Yes, but if you *are* desperate (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:21:18 AM EST
    why not do it? Would you refuse to throw a hail mary pass in the 4th quarter because it will make you look desperate?

    The Clinton-Clinton-Obama speeches said we are Democrats, this is what we believe, we aren't afraid to fight for it. If Sen. Obama continues with that rhetoric on the campaign trail (I have no reason to question whether the Clintons will, it's a given), then the GOP will lose as they deserve to. Does Palin signal desperation? Sure. Is it a smart pick? Absolutely.

    Parent

    I do not know if you are a man or (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:52:19 AM EST
    a woman, but as a woman, I know that women relate to women without even knowing each other. As Obama's video was very "americana" last night, Palin's background is americana as well right up to her down's syndrome baby...courageous! Obama talks change, Palin brings "change" to republicans and the country!!! Don't know if it changes any votes, but that's what I see with Palin.

    Parent
    I do not know if you are a man or (none / 0) (#195)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:00 AM EST
    a woman, but as a woman, I know that women relate to women without even knowing each other. As Obama's video was very "americana" last night, Palin's background is americana as well right up to her down's syndrome baby...courageous! Obama talks change, Palin brings "change" to republicans and the country!!! Don't know if it changes any votes, but that's what I see with Palin.

    Parent
    Intrade Betting (none / 0) (#7)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:51:54 AM EST
    And those folks that get their kicks actually betting on these outcomes are all moving to Palin this morning in the same way they moved to Biden prior to that announcement. The betting on Romney meanwhile appears to be like a crowd that just saw a lame horse walk on the track.

    Intrade said last night it was Pawlenty (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:57:20 AM EST
    Crossed the 80% mark last night...and of course backed off
    The McCain folks outfoxed intrade

    Parent
    Or.... (none / 0) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:57:34 AM EST
    It could be similar to the big betting move towards Bayh just hours before they all switched to Biden..lol

    Parent
    ABC reporting she is at home and... (none / 0) (#10)
    by mogal on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:52:55 AM EST
    going to the state fair via Drudge Report. Maybe it's the Ohio State Fair and "home is where thr heart is."

    Silly, the OH State Fair is long over. (none / 0) (#50)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:06:58 AM EST
    But Dayton has an Air Force base...

    In case anyone wanted to know why Dayton "military" and "swing state Ohio" should do it.

    But you never know, perhaps McCain will tag Ken Blackwell for VP.  (In that case, he can kiss OH goodbye.  Blackwell is more unpopular here than a losing football team.)

    Parent

    ABC Reporting Palin in Alaska... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:53:08 AM EST
    ...but that was a spokesman talking, could be a fake out... why? I have no idea.

    a spokesman wouldn't lie, (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:11:37 AM EST
    would he?

    Especially if McCain had lathered the media up into a tizzy about the Mystery Pick.  No good dousing that with cold water by saying "oh yeah, she's there with him"

    I must say that THIS VP pick is being handled much more effectively than the long, drawn-out, exhausting affair the Obama Camp put us through.  There's a sense of urgency and true interest because it's, like, in just a few hours we'll know!  Whereas, with Obama, it was any day now (wink, wink).  

    It's much easier to stay all a'twitter for a few hours.  But for days on end?

    Ugh.

    Parent

    It seems to me (none / 0) (#19)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:57:58 AM EST
    that McCain needs a game-changer if he wants anyone to care about the Republican convention at this point.

    Lieberman is a game-changer but he changes it in the wrong direction.  As I've been saying for a while, there is simply no way it will be anyone pro-choice.

    Palin would definitely be newsworthy but I feel the window has closed in large part.  Before the unifying events of the past week there were a LOT more Dem and Dem-leaning women up for grabs.

    If you wait until these women are finally feeling comfortable with voting for Obama, and THEN you introduce a woman VP into the mix, I'm not sure how many of them you convince to reopen their thought process.

    In hindsight, I suspect this was the reason why Obama waited so long to make his VP announcement.  Since it wasn't Hillary, he couldn't let any time elapse between announcing the pick and the anticipated unity moment at the convention.

    I disagree (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by cmugirl on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:03:09 AM EST
    I think most people were not really into the Democratic convention, and most won't be into the Republican convention.  I think people will start paying attention the week after and will be surprised when they wake up and ask "McCain nominated a woman?"

    I think the "unity" thing was overblown, since most people are not political junkies and they could care less whether Democrats are "unified".  They are going to start to take a hard look at the candidates' resumes, their ads, the debates, and what they bring to the table.

    This whole circus around the conventions will be a wash and won't mean diddly.

    Parent

    I actually agree. (none / 0) (#82)
    by cosbo on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:14:59 AM EST
    People's memories are short. Last week we were steep in the high of the Olympics. This week we're high on "unity" and next week it will be something else.

    I didn't watch the speech last night. But I heard it was good. But so what. There were many, many good speeches during the primary. All forgotten and on to the next.

    The campaign will be won or lost on "character" and "dirt". The Obama/Ayers ad that plays on both, is an example. It creates "reasonable doubt" about Obama.

    Maybe they'll throw in lots of experience vs. inexperience into the mix just to keep things interesting.

    Parent

    Character (none / 0) (#207)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:55:57 AM EST
    It's number one issue with me.  Not the stuff Bush pulled, because I loved Gore.  I mean the petty, thuggish, thin skin, whinny and penchant for slimy friends that demonstrate what I consider a bad character.  Ugh!

    Parent
    Many women have resigned (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:17:01 AM EST
    themselves to Obama (many did just decide to vote for him), many are still dissatisfied. McCain, picking his VP so soon after the end of the dem convention still leaves that door open. Plus, he said he'd announce today, he is announcing today, whoever it is. He kept his word!

    Parent
    McCain got my vote in June (none / 0) (#162)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:06 AM EST
    If he names Romney or Huckabee, I would not vote for McCain but a third party, McKinney.  If he names Pawlenty or Palin I will vote for him and support him 100 percent.

    McCain is not Bush, no matter how often it's repeated.
    Obama does not have same policies as Hillary.  Copying does not count.

    Parent

    I assume HRC supporters would have been (none / 0) (#22)
    by steviez314 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:58:27 AM EST
    quite upset if Obama had picked Sebelious as VP, so I have a hard time seeing any but the PUMAest of them thinking this is a great pick.

    Not only is it not Hillary, but it's not even someone who believes in the things Hillary believes in.

    Uh (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:10:13 AM EST
    If we were talking about Obama picking Sarah Palin, then yeah, I could see your logic.

    No one is going to be upset with McCain because he picked a woman other than Hillary!

    Parent

    I just want to understand the logic (none / 0) (#137)
    by mbuchel on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:30:15 AM EST
    It's not ok for Obama to pick a running mate with experience or another woman besides Hillary because that is a slap in the face.
    But for McCain to pick an inexperienced and untested running mate is brilliant because she happens to be a woman.
    Explain to me how this makes sense?

    Parent
    Because (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:37:39 AM EST
    I will speak slowly, picking Sebelius when Hillary was available would be a slap in the face of Hillary.

    "When Hillary available" being the key part. you see, Hillary is not a Republican.

    Do you get it yet?

    Parent

    you have to type slowly (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:41:12 AM EST
    for some people

    Parent
    Cool (none / 0) (#24)
    by Lahdee on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:58:47 AM EST
    an inexperienced Governor from one of the least populated states in the union. A newbie true believer I don't doubt who would be a prime candidate for contrast, someone who the Obama campaign shouldn't have a hard time linking to the extreme philosophy that has defined republicans for more than 25 years.

    McCain's VP will be someone (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by Josey on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:19:49 AM EST
    far removed from Bush. Palin fits and conveys a "softer" side to the GOP.

    Parent
    Expercience at the top vs the bottom (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by NWHiker on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:34:16 AM EST
    Obama and Palin are going to have similiar experience levels, like Biden and McCain. I expect, if Palin is the pick, that it'll playout as "the expercienced one is at the top of our ticket, the unexperienced one is learing from the master", unlike the "he'll have experienced people helping him" Obama (and BushII) scenario.

    Won't make me vote for McCain -my state is safely blue, I'll be registering a protest non-vote at the top of the ticket- but I don't think it will hurt him, and in some cases, will help him.

    Parent

    I sure wouldn't do it (none / 0) (#163)
    by Lahdee on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:12 AM EST
    but someone is bound to ask if we can afford to have a first term governor from one of the smallest states in the union leading our country should the head of the ticket succumb to old age.

    Parent
    Y'all need to get out more (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04:06 AM EST
    Nobody outside Alaska has ever heard of this woman and to compare her to Hillary Clinton is a huge insult to Hillary Clinton.

    I suspect HRC supporters, of whom I am one, will sense this immediately.

    And why would an Obama pick of Sebelius supposedly upset HRC supporters so much, but a McCain pick of Palin would please them so much?

    Think about it. Doesn't make sense, does it?

    Agree and disagree (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:09:21 AM EST
    Political junkies like you and myself can see through it, but most people are not political junkies. Two main things: 1) It provides people for voting for McCain-- they are not voting against an historical first black candidate, they are voting for a historical first woman candidate. 2) It helps McCain somewhat with women voters, who are a big problem for him.  

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:17:09 AM EST
    need to understand the message that this sends to some voters. Obama spent the whole primary pretty much trashing women and then continued while being the presumptive nominee. The message is that the "GOP thinks that women are capable while the Dems do not".

    If Obama had picked Hillary this would look like a desperation pick. Since he didn't, it will probably look "bold" maybe?

    And a lot of people saw Biden as a desperation pick for Obama since his poll numbers were going down at the time.

    Parent

    Please give an example (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by mbuchel on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:35:33 AM EST
    of how Obama "trashed women" during the primary.  This is nuts.


    Parent
    You have got to be kidding. (none / 0) (#198)
    by theybannedmeinboston on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:40 AM EST
    Where have you been?

    Parent
    You (none / 0) (#205)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:53:59 AM EST
    weren't paying attention then. For one, comparing her to the Glenn Close character in fatal attraction. Move on. Pay more attention.

    And did you like the sledgehammer unity proclamations issued by his campaign?

    Parent

    That one is easy. (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by theybannedmeinboston on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:21:11 AM EST
    If Obama had chosen Sebelius over Hillary, it would have been, "Why choose Ms. Milquetoast when you have Hillary as an option?" The answer to that question isn't pretty. However, McCain doesn't have Hillary as a choice. Palin is Hillary 20 years ago. Feisty, energizing, and real. She won't set the tone as a female VP as "the little woman".

    Parent
    i thought the same thing (none / 0) (#178)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:42:45 AM EST
    I think its a slap in the face of Hillary supporters to even mention PALIN in the same breath as Hillary...

    i remember hearing if OBAMA picked a woman other than Hillary... it would be a slap to they faces...

    and to think this isnt a play for the so called BITTER KNITTERs is niave


    Parent

    As with the build-up to the Biden pick... (none / 0) (#83)
    by outsider on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:15:19 AM EST
    people are trying out the different website configurations.  And, whilst all the main possibilities exist, this site looks the most 'official' (it's in the right font, etc.).

    http://www.mccainpalin.com/

    Could be a double-bluff I guess.

    Romney (none / 0) (#84)
    by waldenpond on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:15:36 AM EST
    Yesterday, I thought Palin would add some excitement back as she has a interesting personal story and is a Republican (Lieberman?)   I'm referring to the theory that in an even playing field, experience at the top of the ticket will win.  

    Obama evened the field by picking Biden.  McCain has 'experience'  Biden has 'experience'  McCain argues Obama is not ready....well, if 'not ready' sells... eh, so would Palin.   Suspense: SS for Romney?  Pawlenty cancels his appearances for no reason?  Suspense keeps going.  Does McCain give up one of his attacks that Obama is unexperienced for the possible excitement of showing the Repub party are the ones ready for a woman.  

    This is on all channels.  MSNBC is confirming that it isn't Romney or Pawlenty.  MSNBC is now confirming they have no confirmation.  McCain has succeeded in getting attention.  Is it?  Isn't it.

    It will be Romney because one of these candidates have got to grab the economy.  I would like to think our govt is not this tone deaf and someone will be on one of the tickets to show domestic policy is of importance.

    MSNBC is again confirming it is not Romney or Pawlenty. ha!

    Here's my question... what's Palin's rep on the economy?  Isn't she very new?  Weird no one wants the economy.

    elected as Gov in 2006 (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:23:15 AM EST
    but has been active in politics working her way up the ladder since the late-80s, I think.

    Has made a lot of enemies in her own Party by cracking down on corruption.  And is very popular with Alaskans.

    Has a great personal story, is pro-life (but not in a beat you to death with it-type of way), and is very well versed on the issues with a very easy-going, conversational way of explaining things.  She's Hillary Lite, in some ways, with her ability to connect with voters, informing them of her plans, but not losing them in the thickets of policy talk.

    Outdoorsy-type with 5 kids, eloped with her husband in order to avoid an expensive wedding ... yeah, she's dangerous politically if McCain is smart enough to choose her.

    Parent

    Palin's in Alaska, not Ohio (none / 0) (#96)
    by scribe on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:18:54 AM EST
    (per ABC and TPM) and her trying to fire the ex-brother-in-law is perfectly in line with the habitual conduct of this Administration.  Plays right into the another four years of the last eight that the Dems are pitching.  No.

    Colin Powell - says it isn't him.  No.

    Romney - says it isn't him.  Of course, he "can't lie straight in bed", so who knows.  But he has more houses than McSame.  No.

    Huckabee - isn't in Ohio, and has a sweet TV deal or something working, so why would he want to go down in flames with McCain....  No.

    Lieberman - in Ohio.  Maybe.

    Pawlenty - supposedly not in Ohio.  Probably not. If the announcement were coming in St. Paul, it would be easy to see it as him.  In Ohio, not so much.  Of course, if it is him, we can always run videos of bridges falling into the Mississippi and remind people of his cutting infrastructure budgets to pay for tax cuts and super-duper skyboxes at new stadiums for all his wealthy friends.

    My bet is still on Bushco Budget Director and former Trade Rep. Portman.  He's formerly the congressman from that area of Ohio, very well screwed in with the Cheney wing of the party, and loyal to Bushism.  When McSame keels over, we get another four or eight years of Bushism.

    Alternatively, Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina.  They'd be a token woman - because Republicans love their tokenism.

    Portman shores up McCain on the economy (none / 0) (#130)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:27:43 AM EST
    If you agree with Republicans on the economy, of course.

    Given the Ohio location, I think you are probably right.


    Parent

    CNBC: "Sarah Palin is VP Pick" (none / 0) (#107)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:22:11 AM EST
    LINK

    link doesn't work (none / 0) (#116)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:24:02 AM EST


    Parent
    McCain Bmade a huge error in not rolling out (none / 0) (#141)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:31:40 AM EST
    Palin on Sunday or Monday of this week.  It would have blown up the DNC. Think about how it would have energized the Clinton supporters! Now, he's dropping this on Friday, for what? Two or three days of crappy weekend coverage before the GOP convention starts? Dems dodged a bullet on this one.

    Obama rolled out his pick late, late, (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by zfran on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:42:17 AM EST
    late last week, Friday, no wait, confirmed Friday evening and speech on Saturday. Over a week ago McCain said he'd announce on 8/29 and 8/29 it is. Right before his convention.

    Parent
    I dont really agree (none / 0) (#159)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:38:47 AM EST
    he let them  have their turn.  he even made that silly congratulations ad that ran constantly last night (I mean honestly how many time do you need to congratulate the guy?) he now kills Obamas MO.
    kills it.
    I could not find a mention of Obamas speech on teevee by the time I woke up this morning.
    its like it never happened.


    Parent
    Yeah. McCain is playing "gracious" (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:42:31 AM EST
    to the hilt.

    Not sure whose idea it is - McCain or his media people, but it is smart.  Appearances really do matter.

    Parent

    That's a good point (none / 0) (#199)
    by Exeter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:49:45 AM EST
    But why did he let Obama box him in?  Obama obviously realized McCain was waiting until he picked, so Obama waited until the last possible moment. That is probably why Obama tied up all of last week with hinting. McCain might have been better served by rolling out his choice last week and gotten news coverage about Palin instead of his houses or who Obama might pick.  

    Parent
    No. (none / 0) (#167)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:40:34 AM EST
    McCain needs the media to focus on the GOP, not on the Dem reaction.  Never, ever give your opponent free publicity.

    Parent
    Naw (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:45:16 AM EST
    It would have just assured that the horrible first day was drowned out.

    Parent
    CNN just announced Palin is VP pick (none / 0) (#183)
    by befuddledvoter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:44:05 AM EST
    I just got an email alert!

    Today is McCain's birthday... (none / 0) (#190)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:45:50 AM EST
    Here's what 72 zeroes look like:

       0000000000
       0000000000
       0000000000
       0000000000
       0000000000
       0000000000
       0000000000
       00

     Did I get that right?  And I don't care if he picks the virgin mary for vp, he's not getting my vote.

    But, but, but.... (none / 0) (#192)
    by dutchfox on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    NPR was reporting this morning that Palin was a "long shot." Hmmmmm.

    McCain pick Palin (none / 0) (#201)
    by MrPope on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:51:08 AM EST
    amazing...

    people here at work are like  who is PALIN

    everyone here at wotk are saying he picked her to get the bitter Hillary supporters..and i work with all women.

    and it will work...  i am just laughing

    if something happens to McCain..Palin is ready to run the country?

    Picking a western governor. (none / 0) (#204)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:53:26 AM EST
    Does it show he is worried about the west?  That is a good sign.

    The two tickest are reversals of each other (none / 0) (#210)
    by Saul on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:57:35 AM EST
    Obama very little  experience picks insider with 35 years experience

    McCain lots of experience picks governor with very little experience

    CNN caught so flat-footed by ... (none / 0) (#211)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:58:07 AM EST
    Palin announcement that they didn't even have a bio package prepared.

    Smart move (none / 0) (#215)
    by mrjerbub on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:07:39 AM EST
    I fell a whole lot better about my decision to vote for him. That "you-owe-me" look on Michelle's face last night turned my stomach.

    Palin was my first choice for McCain (none / 0) (#219)
    by Prabhata on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 10:36:45 AM EST
    But I never believed he'd do it. I'm happy that I can fully support him.  She's pro-life; I'm pro-choice; It's OK.
    After seeing that Republican appointed judges were responsible for approving gay marriage in CA, I'm convinced that not all Republicans are repugs.

    NBC, CNN, FOX: McCain Picks Palin For VP | 215 comments (215 topical)