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Digby writes about the Democratic Convention:

I was quite surprised at how ... well, progressive everyone was. The Democratic party is beginning to unapologetically identify itself as ideological again, tempered with a new pragmatism about Obama and what we can expect him to accomplish on his own. There wasn't much disagreement at all on issues or the fact that the party establishment is not going to do what needs to be done without strong outside pressure.

The task before us, as a progressive movement, is to figure out how to make them do it. . . .

(Emphasis supplied.) Agreed. But, here's my question, where was this awareness for the past year? And what evidence is there of it now, other than Convention cocktail party talk?

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Sounds like Digby bought into (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:09:27 AM EST
    the notion mostly promoted by the media that conservative Democrats make up the majority of our party.

    Over the last eight years, the Faux News style point counter-point "news" format has largely consisted of putting on someone who represents the views of like 80% of the people and giving equal weight to some nut who represents like 2% of people not in mental institutions.  I think we've all been taken in by that false "balance" to one degree or another.

    The obsession with the PUMA movement is another good example - a relatively small group of Democrats sucked all the oxygen out of the first two days of the convention.  I am not saying that these folks are irrelevant or shouldn't be considered, but I am saying that the amount of attention and energy that was devoted to such a small group when we actually have so many problems in this country we should be addressing, seemed out of whack.

    Digby's comment may answer my question which was always how was it that the large majority of the liberal blogosphere suddenly felt the need to abandon progressive views.  I guess they thought they were a small minority.  I don't know.  I do know that had we stuck to issues during the primaries rather than getting sidetracked on personality, we would be a much healthier and stronger party today than we are - because we do actually have a lot in common.

    I disagree about the PUMAs (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by BernieO on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:16:03 AM EST
    sucking the oxygen out of the first two days. The media was going to play up the storyline about the "self-absorbed" Clintons no matter what. The If there were no PUMAs they still would have obsessed about the divided party. It only stopped when Hillary, and later Bill, showed them up as the shallow fools they really are.

    Parent
    You are under scoring my point. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:45:31 AM EST
    The point I was making is that we as a society have a tendency at this point in history - which I trace back to Faux News trickery - to obsess on small loud groups rather than focusing on majorities.

    Furthermore, it was not just the MSM that bought into the PUMA narrative - much of the liberal blogosphere was also consumed by the story line.  As I said, I don't think it would have been wise to ignore those folks mostly because they deserve a hearing and hopefully are also willing to listen to the other side - but the level of intense focus on one group - a small group - seemed overboard to me.  It also distracted from the many, many things we have in common.  It was designed to do that I know, but the liberal blogs really bit this story hook, line and sinker.

    Parent

    RE obsessing on small loud groups... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by oldpro on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:50:59 AM EST
    It isn't usually a good idea to judge effectiveness by size...or by decibel...and not only in politics.

    Small groups, often known as protesters or reformers, are the basis for most change.  Without them there would have been no American or Russian revolution, no civil rights marches, no gay/lesbian legislation, no women with the right to vote...

    There's an endless list but you get the idea.

    The 'silent majority' you want to focus on is Nixon's 'silent majority' against which I and (to begin with) a small group of other anti-war/peace protesters began our fight against the Vietnam War in the early 60s.  That small group grew and grew, as the war grew and grew.  Yes.  It took over 10 years to end that war...but without that small group, perhaps we would still be there.

    Parent

    I take your point. (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:28:00 AM EST
    I think though at the advent of the blogosphere bloggers were cutting through a media which was creating self-fulfilling prophecies about war support, loving Bush, a respected Republican party etc.  And when the blogs started to get going it became apparent that there were more people out there who were not feeling all rosy about how America was going.

    If there was a prevalent media narrative, the blogs challenged it almost as a matter of course.  Now I think the blogs have lost some of their independent thinking - as well as some of the health skepticism about media narratives that drove the movement to expose nuance and differing points of view in the early days.  They got sucked in on the PUMA thing and they handled it badly imo.  I think that was because they believed the worst of the media's chatter.  The greatest potential pitfall for the blogs is the lack of discipline in figuring out when to just shut up - for lack of better term.  A better sense of proportion would also be something I'd strive to develop.

    Parent

    It precedes Fox News (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:51:01 AM EST
    to be fair.  Fox just exploited what was there.

    It was just as much the liberal media that, even in the pre-Reagan aka Nixon era, promulgated his VP Agnew's line about an alleged "Silent Majority."

    They were neither silent nor a majority then.  But trumpeting them as such made them so.

    There is a lesson there.

    Parent

    Larger than PUMAs (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by gyrfalcon on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:14:31 AM EST
    I agree with most of what you say, but it's important to realize/remember that PUMAs per se are just the tip of the iceberg.  I haven't joined up officially for a bunch of reasons, but their thinking is really not very far from mine and that of a lot of other people here at TL and around the country.

    If the MSM is going to talk at all about pissed-off and conflicted Hillary Dems (or one-time Dems), I'd far rather they talk about PUMAs than brush us all off their shoes as silly Hillary-obsessed bitter-knitters who will come around eventually, which is what they were doing before the PUMAs showed up.

    The PUMA people don't represent my views 100 percent, but they're close enough and they're being taken at least somewhat seriously, which I'm happy to see.

    Parent

    The Dem Party members may be progressive (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by smott on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:26:57 AM EST
    ...like you and me. (Actually I'm Indie now)
    But the leadership? And the way they've voted?

    NOT.
    They've enabled the GOP for 2 years now. SCHIP, habeus, FISA. I'm watching Dean on cable talking about going after evangelicals.

    At this point the best description I've heard of Dems is
    "I can't believe it's not Republican!"

    I will not longer buy the statement (none / 0) (#37)
    by abfabdem on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 12:40:35 PM EST
    that Democrats are progressive.  I saw too much behavior to the contrary during the primary.  They showed themselves to be as neanderthal as the Republicans.  In fact, I am about to change my email name, abfabdem (Absolutely Fabulous Democrat), no more!  A sad day.

    Parent
    Even the great Digby (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by progressiveinvolvement on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:52:48 AM EST
    can be clueless once in awhile.  I've been to three Dem conventions.  This is the hard-core of the hard-core of the Democratic party so it's pretty progressive, and always has been.

    Digby is like a lot of liberals, unfortunately.  They think they're the only liberals in the world, like to stand in judgment of the Democratic Party because it's never liberal enough for them, and then, when they actually see it up close, are surprised to find that, hey, it's more liberal than we thought.

    The Dem leadership is not as progressive/lib (none / 0) (#22)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:58:07 AM EST
    as the majority of delegates, or, it seems, as the majority of Americans on many issues (healthcare, is one example).  Their "pragmatism" includes not rocking the boat so much they lose donations from Big Biz and the less than lib very wealthy donors. Wall Street seems to have more influence than Main Street on our leadership.

    From their point of view, that makes perfect sense.

    Parent

    Symptoms of the Denver Fever Echo Chamber (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by ding7777 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:53:22 AM EST
    lead one to believe that Obama IS the progressive candidate for our time while ignoring his stand on FISA and the death penalty.

    Oh, and the other thing is (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by progressiveinvolvement on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:54:15 AM EST
    The politics behind the scenes of this convention was thoroughly "old politics."

    Yup (none / 0) (#34)
    by Brookhaven on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:14:49 AM EST
    All they needed was the smoke filling the room.

    Parent
    Holding my "Stop Gov't Spying" banner (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Ben Masel on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:26:50 AM EST
    all over the streets of Denver, got thousands of expressions of support.

    Only negative feedback was in front of the ATT Blue Dog tribute. In front of "The Big Tent" blogger center I met more indifference than on the 16th Street Mall.


    Bless you, Ben (none / 0) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:56:38 AM EST
    but watch out in the Twin Cities, where there already are "pre-emptive arrests."

    And watch out, too, for the Harleys all over the roads in the Midwest now, heading home as well.  There have been many bad accidents in your state and mine this weekend, including fatal ones.  

    See you back here soon to keep fighting the good fights.:-)  Btw, thanks for the comment above keeping us up to date re Feingold, too.  Would that his talk had gotten coverage.  Maybe in the Madison media?  I'll go look.

    Parent

    Not to be too negative about Digby (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Maryb2004 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:27:53 AM EST
    who is one of the best, but when you talk to progressives (as she says she did) you are going to get progressive responses.  There is no way to tell from her post (or the other post she refers to) exactly who she was talking to and since the BlogoVillage in many ways resembles the Village - I'm guessing she was talking to a lot of people like herself and extrapolating it to the rest of the party.

    When she says this:

    There wasn't much disagreement at all on issues or the fact that the party establishment is not going to do what needs to be done without strong outside pressure.

    I just laugh.  

    I think she completely misses the point.  She had to go to the Big Tent in Denver to discover progressives can identify the issues? It's hard to tell, perhaps, because the BlogoVillage so seldom writes about issues on a consistent basis and prefers to write about electoral horse race issues and the money-raising that goes with it.   But I think it has always been clear that everyone agreed on the underlying issues; they just disagreed on the prioritization of those issues.  And the arguments about prioritization usually overwhelmed any discussion of actual issues.

    It's even been clear that people who don't self identify as progressives agree on the issues.  Look at the polls.

    And the second point - that everyone realizes that the party establishment won't do what needs to be done without strong outside pressure? Well, it may not have been clear at the beginning of 2007 but anyone following Iraq war funding issue or FISA, which means most people who call themselves progressive, knew that months ago. Did she have to go to Denver to discover that?  No.  The key here has never been what everyone agrees about.  The key is that everyone disagreed and continues to disagree over the best strategy for exerting that pressure.

    She, like every blogger, has her own ideas about the priority of progressive issues and the best strategy for exerting pressure.  I think that what really happened in Denver is that she met a bunch of people who agreed with her on her priorities and on her strategy and that made her feel better.  Meeting people who agree with you always makes you feel better.  But it doesn't really mean you've solved the problem and actually prioritized the issues or come up with a strategy.

    Sometimes I think that I can't wait for this election to be over so that people will focus on issues again.  Then I remind myself what happened after the 2006 election.  I hope this post by Digby means that the BlogoVillage intends to focus on issues in the first 100 days rather than start immediately focusing on raising money for "new and better Democrats" in the 2010 election.  But I'll believe it when I see it.  I see no evidence that they've learned the lessons from 2007.

    I so agree with you BTD. (none / 0) (#1)
    by zfran on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:25:57 AM EST
    How many times has your topic included holding their "feet to the fire." Well, time is running out!

    Where were they (none / 0) (#2)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:31:18 AM EST
    They were too busy being razzle dazzled by the bright lights and new found media attention. Suddenly they had a audience to perform for. The story was them, not the movement.

    Nouveau progressif? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Fabian on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:33:04 AM EST
    I guess it's better than democrat-by-default.

    Get Obama elected First! (none / 0) (#4)
    by irishdem on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 08:43:22 AM EST
    Throwing a bunch of land mines in front of Obama and Dem party will only benefit McCain.

    A candidate wins those votes (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Burned on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:09:07 AM EST
    by appealing to the voters wants and needs. How's Obama supposed to do that if no one tells him what they want? What's the use in participating in this whole process if we can't?


    Parent
    Tells him what they want? (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Jeannie on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:20:17 AM EST
    Why doesn't he KNOW what Democrats want? After all, Hillary laid out a long list of what Democrats want in her speech.... the things that she would have done if she had been elected.

    Parent
    No one is suggesting that anyone (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by inclusiveheart on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:13:14 AM EST
    throw land mines in front of Obama.  But if he wants to get anything done, he has to run on something so that he has a popular and electoral vote mandate for his agenda when he gets into office.  People assume that if he wins and we have a Dem Congress they are all just going to do a bunch of things we have in our heads - but the reality is that the only way to move Congress is to have a clear majority of the people behind your ideas.  He will have a more successful relationship with Congress if he has proven that his agenda is supported by the people. It is for his and our own good that people discuss this issue - not to undermine him.

    Parent
    That's a ten but five is all I've got. (none / 0) (#12)
    by Burned on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:18:20 AM EST
    Talk is cheap (none / 0) (#5)
    by Saul on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:05:14 AM EST
    Obama gives beautiful speeches and promised everything but will he walk the walk?  IMO the only way to get your agenda passed is to have complete control of both houses.  

    No majoity is large enough (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by mmc9431 on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:12:41 AM EST
    Until the party leaders and the DNC stop backing faux Democrat's there will never be a large enough majority. My district is a Dem stronghold in IL and yet we have a rep that is pro war pro life and anti stem cell. He was given his father's seat and has the securityof the party's backing. Primary challenges against him are pointless as long as the state and national leaders support him.

    Parent
    "The task before us, as a progressive (none / 0) (#10)
    by tigercourse on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:15:53 AM EST
    movement, is to figure out how to make them do it. . . ."

    John Tester, Jim Webb and Claire McCaskill will lead that Progressive movement!

    McCaskill leading a Progressive movement? (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:33:23 AM EST
    The Progressive movement will be dead for years to come if that is true.

    It could be worse I guess. The Dems could designate Heath Shuler as the leader of the movement.

    Parent

    Perhaps Obama does not mean by progressive (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:53:02 AM EST
    what progressives/libs think it means....

    He may be changing the meaning of the word to suit his and his main backers' purposes.  So, when he uses it, I say I'll believe it when I see the actions. FISA promise? Public financing promise? NAFTA contradictory statements? Calling unions which did not support him "special interest groups"?

    Reagan did have one great line: Trust but verify.

    Parent

    Feingold, the Invisible Man in Denver. (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Ben Masel on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:30:18 AM EST
    His only speech was before the Wisconsin Caucus.

    Parent
    Says alot to me. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 01:24:00 PM EST
    BTW, Ben.  Did you manage to get yourself arrested in Denver?

    Parent
    Your comment (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by Brookhaven on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 11:12:34 AM EST
    about McCaskill, Webb and Tester is satire, right?  Your aim was to make people laugh, right?

    Because I'm laughing my petut off right now.  And, crying at the same time.  

    Parent

    Senator Tester (none / 0) (#40)
    by eleanora on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 03:34:24 PM EST
    is doing a great job for my state of Montana and fights on the liberal side of many issues that I care about. At the same time, relying on Tester to blaze a progressive trail is extremely optimistic.

    Parent
    outside pressure? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Turkana on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:19:36 AM EST
    from where? the major blogs? they have changed...

    BTD! DemoCRAT convention? The Repub mangling (none / 0) (#17)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 09:50:04 AM EST
    of the DemocratIC Party's name?

    Please, if you are able, edit this first line.

    I've cringed and shuddered (it's almost like hearing styrofoam squeaking/shrieking when rubbed together) for years at the Repub construction. I began hearing it from the MCMers, then younger Democrats themselves began saying "Democrat Party": Where will it stop?

    Joe McCarthy used this construction in order to denigrate the Democrats (and much earlier, opponents would shout, "You rat, you rat, you Democrat" to irritate and infuriate party supporters; that was in the 1800's, iirc), and Reagan and Repubs afterwards love to use it.  I once asked an erudite Republican on a call-in show how long it had taken him to learn how to use such an inelegant and incorrect locution--guy just laughed. It is a joke to them.

    But to see Big Tent Democrat write it? Bring on the smelling salts!

    Thanks (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:05:22 AM EST
    Thank YOU for making the correction. Lots. (none / 0) (#39)
    by jawbone on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 02:32:54 PM EST
    what a game McCain is playing (none / 0) (#24)
    by NicoInMontreal on Sun Aug 31, 2008 at 10:14:21 AM EST
    laughable....no insult to any woman, but a Governor from Alaska with zero expierence in foreign affairs and country wide politics and a heart beat away from becoming President??.....The republicans can say all they want....this was nothing more than a publicity stunt...at the end the reality is clear.....Obama/Biden is the clear choice...or vote McCain/Palin and be the laughing stock of the world.....sorry....but that's the reality of the situation!!!