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Newsweek: Palin Warned By Court To Stop DisparagingTrooper

Newsweek has examined the divorce records of Gov. Sarah Palin's sister and her husband, Mike Wooten, the trooper at the heart of the TrooperGate legislative investigation into whether Palin abused her power as Governor in firing public safety manager Walt Monegan.

The divorce case and ruling cited by Newsweek concerns Palin's conduct before becoming Governor, while she was a private citizen, but is relevant for providing another glimpse into the newly minted Vice Presidential candidate

The Court likened Palin's attacks on the trooper to a form of child abuse:

An Anchorage judge three years ago warned Sarah Palin and members of her family to stop "disparaging" the reputation of Alaska State Trooper Michael Wooten, who at the time was undergoing a bitter separation and divorce from Palin's sister Molly.

More...

Court documents show that Judge Suddock was disturbed by the alleged attacks by Palin and her family members on Wooten's behavior and character. "Disparaging will not be tolerated—it is a form of child abuse," the judge told a settlement hearing in October 2005, according to typed notes of the proceedings. The judge added: "Relatives cannot disparage either. If occurs [sic] the parent needs to set boundaries for their relatives."

As the case continued to make its way through the court system, the Judge's concern grew:

In an order signed Jan. 31, 2006, which granted Palin's sister and Wooten a final divorce decree, Judge Suddock continued to express concern about attacks by Palin's family on Wooten. The judge even threatened to curb Palin's sister's child custody rights if family criticism of Wooten continued.

Newsweek sums up the current allegations against Palin while Governor:

Allegations that Palin, her husband Todd, and at least one top gubernatorial aide continued to vilify Wooten—after Palin became Alaska's governor and pressured state police officials to take action against him—are at the center of "Troopergate," a political and ethical controversy which has embroiled Palin's administration and is currently the subject of an official inquiry by a special investigator hired by the state legislature.

The trooper's conduct is not at issue here. Gov. Sarah Palin's actions are the ones under investigation and the issue is whether she or members of her staff used improper and undue influence.

We expect our elected officials not to use the powers of their office to advance a personal interest. The report should be out in October, and hopefully it will provide additional insight into whether Palin or her staff engaged in improper conduct.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Maybe we should wait for the report (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:14:25 AM EST
    before passing judgement.

    In criminal law, we call that the "presumption of innocence"

    that's exactly what I wrote (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:19:33 AM EST
    as to TrooperGate. No judgment was passed and I specifically said we'll need to wait for the report.

    As to her conduct in the divorce case which preceded TrooperGate, the court's order is an official finding. She wasn't charged with a crime and no one said she is guilty of one. Her actions were, however, according to the Judge, over the top, even for a family member. That speaks to character, an issue totally separate from guilt but relevant for considering whether a person is suited to hold the second highest office in the land.

    Parent

    And where in this judge's job description (5.00 / 9) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:02:53 AM EST
    does it say he gets to tell us about the actions of non-parties?

    Where in this judge's job description does he get to tell non-parties he gets to tell non-parties they do not get to exercise their First Amendment rights to petition their government?

    Where in this judge's job description is it that excuses the trivialization of ACTUAL child abuse by comparing filing a complaint against a police officer who should have been fired, who TASERED his stepchild, with actual child abuse, which is what WOOTEN actually did?

    The world is upside down today it seems to me. This is nuts.

    Parent

    While I don't agree with tasering a child (4.25 / 4) (#93)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:48:20 AM EST
    You have to wonder what exactly Palin's conduct was for the judge to react the way he did.

    Bringing up the tasering obfuscates, not illuminates the question.

    The issue is Sarah Palin's conduct. The ex-brother-in-law's conduct is a separate issue. I'll stipulate his character is bad. JM is right, the trooper's conduct is not the issue here.

    Now what exactly did Sarah do to make the judge react the way he did?  

    Court documents show that Judge Suddock was disturbed by the alleged attacks by Palin and her family members on Wooten's behavior and character.

    As the divorce case dragged on, the judge's concern about family "disparagement" appeared to deepen. In an order signed Jan. 31, 2006, which granted Palin's sister and Wooten a final divorce decree, Judge Suddock continued to express concern about attacks by Palin's family on Wooten.

    In monitoring how a joint-custody arrangement worked out, the judge said in his order that he would pay particular attention to problems noted by a "custody investigator," specifically "the disparagement of the father [Wooten] by the mother [Molly Hackett, Sarah Palin's sister] and her family members.
    "

    "It is the mother's [Hackett's] responsibility to set boundaries for her relatives and insure [sic] they respect them, and the disparagement by either parent, or their surrogates is emotional child abuse," Judge Suddock wrote. He added that: "If the court finds it is necessary due to disparagement in the Mat-Su Valley [the area north of Anchorage where Palin and her extended family live], for the children's best interests, it [the court] will not hesitate to order custody to the father and a move into Anchorage."

    At the heart of the continuing "Troopergate" flap is evidence that despite Judge Suddock's warnings back in 2005 and 2006, Palin and her husband continued to make disparaging allegations against Wooten, even after she went to the statehouse.

    The last quote is interesting because it appears that Palin had no qualms about violating the court order and risking her sister losing custody.  Its possible that the Palin thought the threat was empty because her ex was sooo bad. But that is no excuse for the behavior. I suspect, based upon her Palin's willingness to fire the librarian and the police chief for exercising their first amendment rights in supporting Palin's opponents, that Palin felt she could keep the judge in line.

    I don't think this is a quality I look for in an politician running for office. I actually would look for restraint. You would expect a judge to recuse himself in cases where the judge or the judge's family is involved. I don't think the executive branch should get a pass on this. If anything, I would be more impressed with a governor who refrained from using the office to interfere with personal family matters. I guess I still have a touch of the goo goo in me after all.    

    Parent

    You may want to read up on the (none / 0) (#95)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:53:46 AM EST
    librarian.

    Parent
    Does reading up on the librarian (none / 0) (#100)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:01:52 AM EST
    actually illuminate anything?  She was fired for not supporting Palin. She was later reinstated. Neither fact is disputed. The only disputed fact is whether or not Palin asked to have specific books banned or just inquired into the possibility without specifics. At this point the agreed upon facts is the latter with book banning and that she was fired for not supporting Palin.

    Is there anything at all you can add about the librarian which might illuminate Palin's conduct vis-a vis the issue at hand?

     

    Parent

    She was asked for her resignation (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:34:58 AM EST
    and rehired the next day. The way you write it shows either lack of knowledge of the situation or misuse of the situation against Palin.

    The more these "stories" are blown out of proportion or misreported/used and then debunked, the credibility factor goes way down if something "real/valid" comes up. Crying wolf and all that. We've already been down this road with Obama against Clinton. The lengths Obama and/or supporters are going after Palin is nuts and pretty darn transparent. Heck even Newsweek is debunking the fiction being spewed!

    Parent

    ired and rehired the next day you say? (none / 0) (#128)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:48:51 AM EST
    That is the hallmark of a strong executive?! This is supposed to make it seem all better?

    Did she or did she not fire the librarian?

    Why did she change her mind? If so easily persuaded, didn't she jump the gun? Your defense raises more questions than answers for St. Sarah of the North.

    Parent

    The librarian was not fired and rehired. (none / 0) (#163)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:54:58 AM EST
    She was given a termination letter which gave a in-the-future termination date, and that letter was rescinded that nest day long before her termination date. Sounds to me like Palin accepts when she makes a mistake and does what is necessary to rectify it.

    Parent
    The firing was one of a group of them (none / 0) (#175)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:52:00 PM EST
    once Palin, a Republican, took over after 3 terms of a Democratic Mayor (John Stein).

      A group of staff loyal to Stein and campaigning for him, with a loyalty oath usually signed (to Stein) in a Democratic run was asked to submit resignation letters and to re-apply if wanting the jobs.  I know this happens with regime changes when a different party takes over.

      She asked questions about how loyal they could be to her agenda, which would be quite different.  She and others have said that she came into office determined to make a lot of changes and she did.

      Despite her reputation she was re-elected with twice the number of votes a winner normally gets there.

    Parent

    Palin's conduct didn't occur in a vacuum (none / 0) (#155)
    by Yotin on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:05:28 AM EST
    I don't agree that you could disconnect the trooper's action from that of Palin's. While I like to defer judgment until after the report is out, if true, Palin's disparagement of the adult trooper pales in comparison to child abuse by the adult trooper. It's not as if the trooper is defenseless as compared to the child. Any adult protective of a child could have responded worse than how Palin did.

    And I also agree that the judge lacks the jurisdiction to control anybody's right to file grievance to the court. The trooper could have filed grievance himself if he felt aggrieved by the Palin family.

    Disparaging comments on both sides are common in custody battles. It's the judge job to filter out the noise.

    Some sense of priorities is also needed here. There are violations of ethics out there involving impoverishment of public treasure. If we have any resources to look at them, we're barking at the wrong tree.

    Parent

    Maybe my mother raised me differently (none / 0) (#167)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:45:21 PM EST
    but two wrongs don't make a right she used to say. I said I would stipulate her former brother in law was a bad man. That doesn't excuse her conduct per se.

    How do you know the judge didn't filter out the noise and come to a reasonable conclusion in the case. He was the trier of fact in this hearing, not you.

    Do you have all of the evidence he had at the time he made his decision? Do you have all of the necessary transcripts to review his decision?

    Parent

    It just leaves the impression... (none / 0) (#178)
    by Yotin on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 04:08:43 PM EST
    I admit I don't have all the facts of the case. I preface my arguments with "if true".

    Custody cases are almost always messy. The Palins' have a stake on the case as they're related to mother and child. And if they so choose to file a case, they have every right to do so as BTD so elaborated.

    The judge here is leaving the impression that he's protecting the adult trooper rather than the child. If the trooper felt aggrieved, he has the right to file a case. Only he can decide whether the disparaging remarks of the Palins left him injured or aggrieved and not the judge. Otherwise, those were noise the the judge had to filter to be even to both parties no matter how obnoxious the parties are to each other.

    Parent

    I have have had the misfortune (none / 0) (#179)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:16:27 PM EST
    to handle a few divorce cases. They are messy. Every divorce case I ever did (none since 1990) contained a standing order, that the parties (among other things) not vilify their soon to be ex-spouses. In one county I remember there was a stack of standing orders by the chief judge and you were to take one and include it with your initial filing. The clerk was not allowed to accept the petition with the standing order. In other words it was mandatory, not optional.

    The purpose of the order was not to merely protect one spouse from the other. As I recall there was a provision about making such calumny with the children in mind. Such conduct was not deemed in the best interest of the child.

    I doubt very much the judge cared that much about one soon to be ex husband. I seriously doubt the judge went out of his way to pick a fight with a politically connected family- even if she was between jobs when the case began.

    Again, he was the trier of fact. Not you (or me). Neither of us saw the evidence that he saw, when he saw it. Neither of us have a complete copy of the transcript.

    To me, it looks like a public official used their position for their own family's benefit. If this were directing a major road pass a piece of land owned by a family member (and thereby increasing its value) or delivering state contracts to a family member, you would probably cry corruption. This is no different. It may be easier to swallow because Wooten is a bad man, but it is no different and it is a slippery slope. Ask yourself, would you give Bush a pass on determining who is and who is not a bad man with regard to interfering with the judicial process? That is not the role of the executive.

    There is a reason we split up the responsibilities of judicial, legislative, and executive branches. IT cried out for her to stay away. And she didn't. She failed a crucial test. Its politically easy to defend her. It is also short sighted and wrong.

    Parent

    Let's not exaggerate. (none / 0) (#161)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:49:30 AM EST
    it appears that Palin had no qualms about violating the court order
    There was no court order against Palin, therefor she could not violate a court order.

    Parent
    True and False (none / 0) (#169)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:57:19 PM EST
    As long as we are not exaggerating...

    There was a court order regarding disparagement by family members. Violation of that order would result in a risk of loss of child.  Palin had no qualms risking her sister losing custody.


    Parent

    Huh. (none / 0) (#171)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:15:36 PM EST
    Upon further review, it is apparent I misread the Newsweek article.

    Carry on.

    Parent

    Tasering charge *may* be overblown (3.50 / 4) (#49)
    by jerry on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:20:28 AM EST
    The tasering of the stepson seems to have been overblown and does not seem to be abuse.  I say this and at the same time, I am against the use of Tasers and I believe Tasers should be considered deadly force.  But that's not what police are taught, and here is the Anchorage Daily News report:

    TASING THE STEPSON

    One day -- maybe a year or two before the investigation -- Wooten showed his stepson his Taser. He had just been to Taser instructor school. Wooten told Sgt. Wall that the boy was fascinated and pleaded to be tased.

    "So we went in our living room and I had him get down on his knees so he wouldn't fall. And I taped the probes to him and turned the Taser on for like a second, turned it off. He thought that was the greatest thing in the world, wanted to do it again," Wooten told the investigator. The boy flinched but nothing more, he said. The boy was about 11 at the time.

    In his interview with troopers, the stepson said it hurt for about a second, according to Wall's report. The boy said he wanted to be tased to show his cousin, Palin's daughter Bristol, that he wasn't a mama's boy. The probe left a welt on his arm, he said. His mother was upstairs yelling at them not to do it, the boy said.

    As Bristol remembered it, the jolt knocked the boy backward, the trooper report says. She said she was afraid.

    The probes are attached by thin wires to the Taser cartridge. In the field, an officer fires the probes into a suspect's skin or clothing and the suspect receives a jolt of electricity for five seconds, said Steve Tuttle, a spokesman for Taser International, which makes the devices. They are only incapacitated during that time. In demos, the probes might be taped to a person so that they don't accidentally strike an eye or injure the volunteer, he said. If the Taser is fired for just a second, it would feel like your funny bone was hit but the quick jolt wouldn't knock you over, Tuttle said.

    Custody disputes can get very nasty, and it's not at all uncommon for bogus claims of child abandonment, child abuse, and sexual abuse to be made.

    No fault divorce is a good thing, but it needs reform.

    Instead of disputing over who is at fault, determining fault, and letting that help determine custody, what happens now is that the divorce is made, and the nasty fight occurs over custody issues.

    And during that fight, all sorts of truly ugly and often wrong charges are made in attempts to get restraining orders, and set anchors in the judge's mind.

    Many custody battles could be eliminated if we had a rebuttable presumption of joint, shared custody.

    If we believe in women's equality and also men's equality, if we examine the strides in how employers and employees cooperate these days, and strides made largely by feminists, then there really is no legal reason not to have an assumption of joint shared custody.

    There is lots of research to show that children are better off with shared custody arrangements, (see #21 and #25-27) and that a rebuttable presumption of shared custody would likely reduce the costs of divorce, the animosity engendered by the divorce, and the various ugly issues between the parents that affect the kids.

    By being a rebuttable presumption, the law would still allow people with good cases to come forward and make the claims their former partners are abusive, or molesters, or whatever charge needs to be made.

    Parent

    Tasing anybody, not just an 11 year old (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 04:12:52 AM EST
    for no reason is a serious matter, not overblown, imo.

    Parent
    Overbliown? (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:09:40 AM EST
    Wow! Imagine that.

    I tell you, this whose ox is gored standard is really getting to me.

    Imagine if someone talke d about some police abuse action as "overblown." Imagine your reaction. But THIS cop is a-Ok.

    Unbelievable.

    Parent

    BTD that's disingenuous, even for you. (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by jerry on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:05:42 PM EST
    My opinion is based on the news report, and that it's in the context of a nasty custody dispute.

    It has nothing to do with his being a cop.

    Parent

    Providing a defense at TL shouldn't be a sin (none / 0) (#165)
    by jerry on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:26:47 PM EST
    I am clearly not defending this guy because he is a policeman.  Everything I have written in this thread (including in two posts that were removed) is based on the known history as reported by the ADN as well as the context of what happens in nasty custody disputes.

    I would have thought that at TalkLeft, it was understood that everyone gets a defense, and we probably shouldn't just laugh off the defense because of course we know the guy is guilty.

    You can consider his behavior reprehensible, but if the story was reported accurately, a 1 second tasing, where the probes are taped on and not shot out, where the kid was properly posed beforehand, and where the kid has asked for the tasing and shows he knows what the implications are, does not strike me to be the Wooten is a Tasing Monster who tased his stepson that you claim.

    That is based on the ADN's reporting, and it has nothing to do with the guy being a cop, and it seemingly doesn't show this guy has any sort of anger management or domestic violence or father issues.

    Parent

    Wooten's is the only actual quote in this (none / 0) (#101)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:02:06 AM EST
    On Page two of Palin's typewritten note Aug 10, 2005, before she became Governor, you'll see another, more detailed version of that incident, including the charge that Wooten threatened Bristol with tasering also.  And you'll see there are other charges that are not exactly normal family problems.

    They'll have to weigh all of this, but Wooten's been accused of freewheeling antagonism and threats by others.  That should be weighed also.

    Here, in the interest of balance is what Wooten told CNN this last week.

    Parent

    And this is Sarah's Palin's report of (none / 0) (#168)
    by tree on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:51:23 PM EST
    of the tasering in a complaint to Col Julia Grimes of the Alaska State Troopers:


    Wooten's total disregard for the safety of others was blatantly apparent when he shot his 11-year old stepson, Payton with his Taser gun. My 14-year-old daughter, (Bristol Palin) was terrified as she witnessed this incidence, and pleaded with Wooten not to follow through on his intended action of "letting Payton feel what a Taser can do". Wooten "offered" to shoot Bristol with the Taser after Payon was knocked over by the shock and Bristol continued to protest Wooten's action, and he followed up by offering to spray them both with pepper spray so they could "feel that, too". Wooten's wife aggressively protested during the Taser gun incident, she cried, he calls her and Payton "f**king p#ssys"  for protesting.

    I don't know which description is more accurate but I do wonder why an 11 year old boy would be worried about being considered a "mama's boy" by his cousin, Bristol, who said she was frightened by the incident, unless his stepdad implied that he would be so considered if he didn't get tased.

    Parent

    I don't know which is more accurate either (none / 0) (#170)
    by jerry on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:08:52 PM EST
    One is the report from the ADN though, the other from the mother's sister.  Custody cases get really vicious and charges and lies are often thrown around.  Presumably the ADN has been sourced has is "more neutral and objective" than Palin's report.  I don't put a ton of faith in a reporter's neutrality or objectivity, but apparently they claim to make sure there are two sources for the stuff they say?

    Regarding Bristol being scared, that's the report from Palin, but she is not described that way in the ADN report where the mama's boy charge came up.  So who knows?

    I'm not nominating Wooten for father of the year.  I am saying that as reported, I don't think the tasering is what people typically think of as abusive behavior.

    If he had let this 11 year old cut the tomatoes with the chef's knife, would that have been abuse?  If he let the 11 year old help him work on the car, or even around the house and had supervised the activities and still the kid was cut, or shocked, would that have been abuse?

    Have we heard from the kid what he thought of the tasing?  The ADN doesn't give a well reported description of the aftermath apart from Wooten's claim the kid merely flinched and the kid's statement it left only a welt.  Did he require a doctor?  How was he affected?

    Parent

    Your own linked report refutes you. (none / 0) (#173)
    by tree on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:27:06 PM EST
    Regarding Bristol being scared, that's the report from Palin, but she is not described that way in the ADN report where the mama's boy charge came up.  So who knows?

    From your linked report:

    As Bristol remembered it, the jolt knocked the boy backward, the trooper report says. She said she was afraid.

    I'm not nominating Wooten for worst father of the year, nor trying to prove him guilty. He was however suspended due to the tasing and other infractions. I'm not here to condemn Wooten, I'm here to say that condemning Palin when we don't have all the facts is bad. The few facts we do have make it understandable that she would be truly and legitimately concerned about actions that Wooten took that threatened her family and it would also certainly make it understandable that she would consider Wooten unqualified to be a state trooper.

    Parent

    You're right, (none / 0) (#174)
    by jerry on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:44:53 PM EST
    You're right the linked report does agree she says she was afraid.  (But I was coming from the position that the linked report provided no other support for these other statements:
    (Bristol Palin) was terrified as she witnessed this incidence, and pleaded with Wooten not to follow through on his intended action of "letting Payton feel what a Taser can do". Wooten "offered" to shoot Bristol with the Taser after Payon was knocked over by the shock and Bristol continued to protest Wooten's action, and he followed up by offering to spray them both with pepper spray so they could "feel that, too".)

    I agree with you that we don't know what happened, and that it's in the context of a custody dispute.  Palin's actions as a private citizen during the divorce bother me much much less than what she may have done in office.

    Not to defend Wooten's tasing of the kid, but his suspension could have been due to his violating department rules regarding use of his taser, and not because the department thought what he did was child abuse.

    From personal experience, I am a bit touchy when it comes to nasty custody disputes where false allegations frequently fly and are very rarely punished.

    Parent

    I understand where you are coming from. (none / 0) (#177)
    by tree on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:29:49 PM EST
    Again, I am not interested in finding Wooten guilty of anything. I don't even think that this should have been brought up into the public view.

    I understand that this could be a case of overstating and exaggerating. But I also know that Palin was found by the trooper report to hve lied to the trooper investigation into his conduct. And I know that its also possible that Palin was entirely account in her account. (Some allegations are false in custody disputes, but likewise some are true.) If she was then the rest of her actions seem entirely within bounds of her duty as a citizen and later as a government official to see that state troopers are held to standard of conduct. So far there is no proof that she overstepped her bounds and the commissioner she fired admits that she never asked him to get rid of Wooten. I'm not asking you to condemn Wooten without all the facts. I'm asking you not to assume the worst of Palin without those same facts.

      I don't agree with her politics but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve the same honest and evenhanded consideration as every other candidate. Would we really like a Democrat to be subject to this kind of villification without the facts? "Troopergate" at this point seems to me to be be a trumped up "gotcha" issue.  

    Parent

    What a concept! (4.25 / 4) (#3)
    by oldpro on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:23:42 AM EST
    Although I don't suppose it has much chance of catching on.

    I've always said that if they ever make jumping to conclusions an Olympic sport, I could field a gold medal team from family members alone, not to mention friends and neighbors. USA! USA!

    Parent

    how is (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:32:12 AM EST
    a finding by a judge who has heard evidence from both sides after a hearing, at which testimony was subjected to cross-examination, considered jumping to conclusions?

    The judge didn't jump to conclusions. He made a judicial finding after a hearing. If you don't believe in that, you don't believe in our judicial system.

    Parent

    For 1... (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by kredwyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:58:51 AM EST
    The judge's concerns pre date Wooten's suspension:
    "The record clearly indicates a serious and concentrated pattern of unacceptable and at times, illegal activity occurring over a lengthy period, which establishes a course of conduct totally at odds with the ethics of our profession," Col. Julia Grimes, then head of Alaska State Troopers, wrote in March 1, 2006, letter suspending Wooten for 10 days. After the union protested it, the suspension was reduced to five days.

    She warned that if he messed up again, he'd be fired.

    "This discipline is meant to be a last chance to take corrective action," Grimes wrote. "You are hereby given notice that any further occurrences of these types of behaviors or incidents will not be tolerated and will result in your termination."

    The judge wouldn't have known the conclusions that the state troopers came to when he voiced his concern about an officer of the law.

    Parent

    Oh but according to Jeralyn (5.00 / 4) (#146)
    by fercryinoutloud on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:56:36 AM EST
    Wooten's misbehavior is not at issue here and the family has no right to criticize a person who acted in a bad  way and even tasered a minor.

    You see to bring him might justify anything that the Palin family said or did.

    It's not like anyone here, !Anyone!, might have bad words for a brother-in-law who was a bad actor. But yet Jeralyn is trying to quash any such discussion because it may be shown the family had good reason to have bad words and emotional reaction to him.

    I can tell you as a person whose family had to go through something similar with my sister ex-husband that this witch hunt is total BS.

    Parent

    You've never come across a judge (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:23:56 AM EST
    with whom you disagreed on some important aspects? after he or she'd looked at everything?

      I don't think of them as Godlike even in trying to be Solomons, and I realize you don't either, but your statement sounds as if you do, because you are coming across as seeming on only one side of this, in hopes we can get Pilan out.

      I thought the onus of the judge's words was on the entire family, who were of course affected.  At one point, "the parent" was mentioned.

    Parent

    Actually, Jeralyn, (none / 0) (#152)
    by oldpro on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:25:55 AM EST
    my comment wasn't directed at you or what you had said.

    It was meant to be ironic...responding in support of the previous posters use of the words "presumption of innocence" in which I do, indeed, believe strongly.

    I have sat on four juries and I can tell you that, sadly, not everyone believes in it...or is even - behind closed doors - willing to follow the law and the instructions of the judge.  I had one juror removed from the jury pool for lying to the judge.  When questioned about his knowledge of the crime, he had denied knowing anything or even having heard of it...but in the jury room he gave an authoritative  speech about what he'd read in the local papers proving the accused was guilty, guilty, guilty.  The additional problem was that he had mixed up two different cases...two different defendents...and would not acknowledge his mistake or back down!

    A retired Superintendent of Schools - only too anxious to 'give 'em a fair trial before we hang 'em.'

    I had him removed.  In a small town, if you think that went over big with some folks, guess again.  

    Parent

    it's a trap (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by boredmpa on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:31:58 AM EST
    this story needs to die.  i honestly don't know what people are thinking, homing in on a story that can easily be reframed as an executive going against corrupt unions and bureaucracy in order to remove an unfit officer from the streets--regardless of the consequences.  And if i recall, investigations confirmed his lack of "fitness"

    Regardless of the "properness," her actions play to the maverick theme and standing up to special interests regardless of personal cost or media response (which seasoned politicians are always concerned about).

    There is no way that this story can be good for the democrat ticket...unless there's a really angry/vindictive email quote, and i mean an actual soundbiteable quote, out there from palin. And even then there's the obvious result that folks will use sexist language to connect her response to the trooper to a question of her leadership abilities.  The possibilities for that dialogue just aren't too good.

    good for the democratic ticket (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:35:37 AM EST
    is not the only concern. Good for our country is.  

    When you have a candidate nominated for the second highest office in the land whom no one knows much about and who appears not to have been fully vetted and chosen for political considerations rather than experience or qualifications, the more information about her that comes to light, positive or negative, the better.

    Parent

    in terms of good for our country (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by boredmpa on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:02:53 AM EST
    I have no problem with an elected official seeking dismissal of someone they know to be unfit or dangerous.  Action against any career civil servant, especially if it comes from personal knowledge, comes at high political cost and has plenty of checks on direct dismissal.  Though I think the way Gavin Newsom handled fair pocketing in SF was a bit better...he still got hell for it.

    Anyway, this is an ethically complicated area and an emotional one.  It's interesting, but without a significant amount of new information, I'm not finding that new stories/backstory on troopergate are all that insightful to her character/background.  

    Then again, maybe I missed something....

    Parent

    fair=fare (none / 0) (#18)
    by boredmpa on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:03:26 AM EST
    sigh.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#63)
    by connecticut yankee on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 05:51:18 AM EST
    It will handle itself. Either there is some nasty Palin behavior there or not. They could very well fault her staff and not her.  We already know her office acted irresponsibly, which is a non-story at this point.


    Parent
    Excuse me (5.00 / 13) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:36:16 AM EST
    Where does a judge get off telling as non-Party what it can or can't say?

    I tell you J, you have flown so far off the rails on this that you dfo not see that the real outrage here is that a judge thinks he has the iorght to tell someone what they get to say.

    Did we forget about the First Amendment here?

    Who the hell does this judge think he is? The scandal here is a judge who thinks he gets to tell people what they get to say.

    In a divorce case (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:39:26 AM EST
    the test is the best interest of the child. The judge is perfectly free to give his opinion as to who is acting contrary to the best interest of the children. That's what the judge did here.

    I find it relevant. You may not, that's your choice.

    Parent

    In a divorce case (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:46:37 AM EST
    The judge does not have extraordinary powers that override the First Amendment.

    Sarah Palin and Todd Palin get to say whatever they want and IF the judge was threatenin Sarah Palin's sister;s custody rights because of Sarah Palin's exercise of her First Amendment rights, then that judge;sd actions were outrageous in the extreme.

    The scandal here is the actions of the judge. That he took testimony from a UNION official complaining that the Palins were filing complaints, in the parlance of the Fiorst Amendment, petitioning their governnment, then the fitness of that judge should be questioned.

    To me this story damages anything ever said by this judge who clearly is an idiot. And the use of the phrase "child abuse" where Woooten tasered his stepchild is outrageous in the extremem.

    Clearly this judge is a clod and a fool.  

    I am outraged - by this judge.

    Parent

    The first amendment is not at issue (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:06:23 AM EST
    here. The Judge didn't order Palin not to make those comments. He isn't telling her what she can and cannot say. He said he found the disparagement by Palin and other family members hurtful -- to the best interests of the children. As a result, he giving  Palin's sister a heads-up that he would be justified in denying her custody if it doesn't stop so that the children wouldn't be exposed to disparaging comments about their father.

    Divorce courts are concerned with preventing children from being subjected to disparaging comments about a parent. They are not in the best interests of a child.

    Anyone can say what they want, but if they do it  in the presence of the children, or in a fashion sure to be relayed to the children, they are risking their chances of getting custody.

    It is routine for a Judge to take into consideration in a custody dispute that a child, while in the custody of one parent, is subjected to disparaging remarks about the other parent.

    It's in the best interest of the child to be in a home where respect is encouraged towards the other parent. It seems this wasn't happening in Palin's sister's house and he found Palin and other family members contributed to it.

    Divorce law 101: the parent who trashes the other parent or allows it to happen in front of the children is risking their chance at custody.

    Parent

    The filing of compliants before gov't agencies (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:07:16 AM EST
    can be restirctyed by a family judge?

    This is nuts. I think we need to hear from some experts on this. What you are writing here strikes me as insane.

    Parent

    Where is it said that the judge (none / 0) (#85)
    by robrecht on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:15:02 AM EST
    did or could restrict the filing of complaints before government agencies?

    Parent
    In the Newsweek article (none / 0) (#110)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:08:52 AM EST
    And why, if true, does this make Aunt Sarah (5.00 / 4) (#87)
    by Roz on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:24:51 AM EST
    unfit for the vice presidency?

    Because she couldn't resist the completely human reaction of dissing the guy who her tased her nephew?

    Wooten's conduct may not be the subject of the Troopergate investigation, but it certainly is in the domestic situation to which Palin's alleged comments and actions relate.

    Parent

    BTW (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:51:42 AM EST
    I think it is relevant all right, to the fitness of the judge.

    I plan to write about it myself tomorrow.

    I am gonna ask by what right this judge thinks he can tell non=parties they do not get to petition for redress against their government, a right guaranteed under the First Amendment.

    Parent

    Interestingly (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:59:13 AM EST
    I have seen a lot of posts at volokh.com over the years about the interplay between child custody disputes and the First Amendment.  Often it has to do with religious expression, for example when one parent gets favored because they have a "mainstream" religion.  You want a fun issue, take a case where one parent is clearly more qualified to have custody based on economic criteria, but they also propose to raise the child in radical Islam.  Your move, Judge.

    My only significant experience with custody disputes is in the role of the res.  But my general sense is that disparaging remarks concerning the other parent are routinely taken into account.  I may have the constitutional right to call my ex-spouse a dirty word, but if I routinely do it in front of the child, the judge is going to hold that against me.  Similarly, it seems routine for the court to take into account the environment to which the child is exposed during custody or visitation - even if the acts of non-parties are thereby brought into the case.

    I'm not saying your First Amendment argument is wrong.  It seems very interesting, actually.  But I'm not sure you're accurate to single out this judge as someone who clearly exceeded his powers; I think family courts across the country make this exact sort of ruling every day.  If there's case law out there rejecting the argument that taking disparagement into account is a violation of the First Amendment, of course you can argue that the case law was wrongly decided, but it's not particularly shocking for a court to follow the case law.

    I look forward to your post on this, I'm sure I have a lot to learn about this area.

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#90)
    by JAB on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:43:10 AM EST
    isn't your argument also predicated on the actions of the soon-to-be ex-spouse? The judge can take into consideration if the mother says disparaging comments about the father, for instance, in the presence of the child, but how would you limit everything grandma says in front of the child?  I agree with BTD - this is a case of political grandstanding by a judge against a politician with whom he politically disagrees.

    (Wasn't part of the problem that Wooten threatened Palin's father with a bullet in his head if he helped Wooten's wife pay for a divorce attorney?  How did the judge take that into consideration? And how is THAT going to play with the public?)

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:01:45 AM EST
    It is the responsibility of the custodial parent not to expose the child to situations where the non-custodial parent is going to be predictably disparaged.  I assume if grandma liked to, say, smoke cigars and blow the smoke in the child's face, mom would be able to do something about it.  You can't just say "sorry, Your Honor, it's grandma doing the disparaging and there's nothing I can do about it."

    Not only does mom have control over who gets to be around the child, but it's also common sense that if grandma knows that mom's custody will be endangered if she continues to disparage the ex-husband, she's more likely to stop doing it.

    I think it is VERY premature for any of us to conclude, based on the extremely limited record in front of us, that the judge was either political grandstanding or completely justified in what he did.  Custody battles are very tricky, very personal things, that often play out over a number of years.  Of course, that raises the question of why we should even be blogging about it, when at best we're all just guessing.

    Parent

    You are wrong (none / 0) (#109)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:08:24 AM EST
    The record is that the judge took testimony from a police union official about formal grievances filed by the Palin family with the Alaska government against Wooten.

    There is nothing here about what was said to the children.

    Parent

    no, he's not wrong (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:22:09 AM EST
    he disagrees with you, that doesn't make him wrong. None of us have seen the entire court file or read the transcript.

    I'm reporting on the Newsweek article, you are jumping to conclusions.

    Parent

    Do you have any proof that (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:12:17 AM EST
    this is a case of political grandstanding by a judge against a politician with whom he politically disagrees.

    Specifically do you have any proof the judge disagrees with Palin politically and did so at the time of this hearing? Sounds awfully Bushian to me. X disagreed with me. Therefore X disagrees with me because of politics. Therefore X's disagreement is political and not to be taken seriously. QED.

     

    Parent

    I know you are not responding to me (none / 0) (#114)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:15:00 AM EST
    But I am surprised no one is commenting on the fact that this judge chose to take testimony from a police union official about grievances filed by the Palin family against Wooten with the state agency.

    Does this not shock ANYONE besides me?

    Parent

    We only have a brief description by (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:31:37 AM EST
    Newsweek as to evidence. We  don't whether that is all the evidence the Judge found relevant.  Without a transcript we don't even know exactly what the Union representative  testified to.

    The judge was the trier of fact in this case. What were his exact factual findings at the time of the hearing? Did Newsweek provide a transcript? Is there a transcript?

     Wooten seems like a bad guy to me. The issue is Palin, not Wooten, however. The issue is an executive using the power of  her office in a personal family matter. I don't think this is something to endorse, even if you believe Wooten to be a bad guy as I do, even if you believe Sarah Palin to be a Saint (which I don't).

    Parent

    I look foreward (none / 0) (#149)
    by Faust on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:03:39 AM EST
    to your brief on this.

    I want to know if "disparaging" has some legal status. I want to know what the limits are on "disparaging" if it does have a legal status as a term. From your reaction it sounds like no. But Jeralyn seems to think it has a common usage.

    Parent

    You misunderstand my complaint (none / 0) (#108)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:07:20 AM EST
    The judge is seeking to punish Sarah Palin's sister for the fact that the Palin family petitioned for redress with the government against Wooten.

    Parent
    Jeralyn vs. BTD (none / 0) (#19)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:03:38 AM EST
    Link
    Just being lighthearted.  Don't believe for a moment that you are anything like those two.


    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#136)
    by cib on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:01:08 AM EST
    And the entire "best interests of the child" test is subjective and unconstitutional as hell. Family court needs major reforms. Right now they are kangaroo courts that are directly responsible for many suicides in this country.

    Parent
    Freedom of Speech vs Protection of Children (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by robrecht on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:50:31 AM EST
    As clearly indicated, the judge's primary concern is with protecting the child(ren) from the harm caused by villification of one parent by the other (or her her family).  Is that not a perfectly reasonable exercise of judicial concern in family court?

    Parent
    of course it is (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:08:50 AM EST
    See here.

    Parent
    If the mother didn't get custody (none / 0) (#38)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:45:26 AM EST
    I think she would get them on appeal.  No way that my children could be taken away because some family member disparaged my ex.

    Parent
    And then there's this (none / 0) (#22)
    by NYShooter on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:09:40 AM EST
    Democrat Hollis French, in charge of the Palin Legislative "inquiry" is quoted by ABC News, regarding the final report due in October, "It's likely to be damaging to the Governor," AND "she has a credibility problem."
    The Alaska newspaper, "The Homer Tribune" confirms that French is an Obama supporter and has stumped for him. He is also listed as a supporter on Obama's own web site.
    He has refused calls to step down and allow an independent investigator to conduct the inquiry. The Democratic Assembly also voted to let this  Obama supporter remain.

    Getting interesting.


    Parent

    I thought he wasn't the one doing (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by TomStewart on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:28:48 AM EST
    the investigating, but is heading the body the actual investigator is reporting to.

    Parent
    There was a photo today of (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:39:05 AM EST
    something I didn't quite see from across the room but they were talking about a photo of a group gathered for an Obama support event.  In the photo were Monegan (who'd been fired, he says, for not doing something about Wooten though he says that Palin didn't out and out tell him to fire him (but her wishes were evident to him) and Senator French.

      BTD, he manages the investigation organization but is not the independent investigator.  However, even in that capacity he is not supposed to be giving out statements about her credibility being harmed by an action or that he thinks this may result in an October Surprise (which he did).

      Just for info, the Personnel trio her lawyers wanted, said by some to be the group that has authority to handle this instead of the more politically-inclined legislature, were hired by the former Governor, not by her -- in fact, hired by the former Governor she beat in the primary, from what I read.

    Parent

    but (none / 0) (#62)
    by connecticut yankee on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 05:47:12 AM EST
    It's a bipartisan commission.

    Parent
    you are totally missing the issue (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:13:37 AM EST
    and I suggest you confer with a family law practitioner and read the context of the judge's findings before going off on him. It's a custody dispute and he's evaluating the best interests of the children. He's not telling anyone what they can or cannot say, only discussing what the consequences might be.

    Are you a family law practiitioner Jeralyn? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:05:45 AM EST
    Did you consult with one? Could you ask one to write a post on the behavior of this judge please?

    Unless you provide some documentation to back up your defense of this judge, I stand by my views. What you have written so far is not convincing to me.

    Parent

    I used to be (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:53:45 AM EST
    early in my career, more than half my cases were domestic. I remember one custody trial where the judge took me aside and told me, "You know, it's hard enough to take someone's kid away from them without you making them out to have committed Murder 1." (The mother had gotten a DUI with the kids in the car.)

    I stopped doing them altogether after about 10 years when my criminal practice was big enough. The law firm I share space with is one of Colorado's top divorce firms.

    Anyway, just an anecdote.

    Parent

    I've never heard of a family law judge (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:21:12 AM EST
    getting involved in what the relatives of one of the parties are saying.  Talk about endless litigation.  But, judge, my mother-in-law said, . . .

    I've seen custody orders that address (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by myiq2xu on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:55:17 AM EST
    disparaging the other parent (or allowing others to do so) in the presence of the child(ren)

    That is fair and reasonable.

    But a blanket prohibition would be unconstitutional.

    Parent

    That's reasonable (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:05:30 AM EST
    But very difficult to enforce.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by BernieO on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:45:25 AM EST
    I can't imagine my husband and I controlling what his family says or does. Fat chance of that!

    Not that I couldn't - and didn't - have some control over what they said around and did with my kids, but beyond that there is no way we had any influence.

    Parent

    Isn't that the issue here? (none / 0) (#70)
    by robrecht on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:52:03 AM EST
    I presume the judge is only concerned with the parent's ability to establish boundaries around the family's villification of the other parent around the children.  Not, as you say above, with respect to legitimate complaints to the other parent's supervisor at work.

    Parent
    Public disparagement also (none / 0) (#84)
    by robrecht on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:10:49 AM EST
    However, there is some indication that the judge was not only concerned about direct villification in the presence of the children, but also public reputation:

    <blockquote>Judge Suddock ... added that: "If the court finds it is necessary due to disparagement in the Mat-Su Valley [the area north of Anchorage where Palin and her extended family live], for the children's best interests, it [the court] will not hesitate to order custody to the father and a move into Anchorage."</blockquote> From J's link above.

    Seems like my presumption above may be wrong.  This does seem like a more difficult proposition.

    Parent

    Wow. That's a leap. (none / 0) (#98)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:58:55 AM EST
    I can see the judge saying that continued disparagement would factor into future custody hearings. (AFAIK, either parent can appeal the custody/support orders at any time.)  IMO, that's a legitimate factor to take into account.  But to say that (from my reading) that the judge would take it upon himself to change the custody on that single factor alone is radical.

    Parent
    Judge Suddock (none / 0) (#105)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:05:49 AM EST
    has a union official testify about the complaints to state agencies by the Palin family.

    There was nothing stated about what was said to the children.

    That is my beef with this.

    Parent

    Why is the mother responsible for others? (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:25:22 AM EST
    It is the mother's [Hackett's] responsibility to set boundaries for her relatives and insure [sic] they respect them

    How on earth can the mother enforce what the judge wants?

    BTD, you are right.

    he said mother because that's where (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:30:36 AM EST
    the disparagement was coming from -- her relatives. If it was the father's family that was disparaging Palin's sister, and the comments were reaching the children, he would have made the same finding about the father's relatives.

    Parent
    But the mother doesn't have powers (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:34:01 AM EST
    to stop disparaging talk.  I couldn't stop my family from talking bad  me and saying my ex was a saint. People have opinions and they will say what they want.

    Parent
    bad about me (none / 0) (#32)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:35:09 AM EST
    This is the interesting question: (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:35:13 AM EST
    How on earth can the mother enforce what the judge wants?


    Parent
    She has no power (none / 0) (#35)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:39:29 AM EST
    The judge cannot enforce a gag outside the litigants.  I'm no lawyer, but it's common sense.

    Parent
    "talking bad" (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:26:50 AM EST
    about a parent is a huge deal in custody cases, if it gets back to the children. It's not in the best interest of the children.

    Other agencies were responsible for making findings about the trooper's conduct and the Judge had access to them. There's no reason to assume the Judge wasn't aware of them.

    The judge should have gagged (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:36:32 AM EST
    the family, not make the mother responsible.  I don't think the judge had the powers to gag those outside the case.

    Parent
    I always assumed (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by BernieO on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:40:36 AM EST
    that this meant talking bad about the parent to the child, not to his supervisor at work.

    Parent
    So is disparaging a legal term? (none / 0) (#147)
    by Faust on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:58:19 AM EST
    I'm just trying to understand. Is this a legal concept? I assume the judge wasn't talking out of left field here.

    Parent
    As I understand it... (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by EL seattle on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:17:35 AM EST
    ... the judge here was only acting within the power to decide and determine child custody.

    A judge can't limit a person's freedom to spend all their time with strippers and gamblers.  But in a child custody case, that judge can probably say that the kid will not be spending too much time at your house if that's what you want to do.

    At least, that's how I understand it.  The Newsweek story isn't terrifically clear on this particular matter.

    Parent

    comment I am replying to (none / 0) (#157)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:17:08 AM EST
    by prabata was deleted for going into the taser episdode with links. The part I was responding to was her statement

    So Palin talked bad about her brother-in-law, no big deal.  


    Parent
    It may be that Suddock didn't like Palin (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:54:31 AM EST
    But that doesn't explain why Suddock is a bad judge.  His admonition that the custody was in jeopardy if family members disparaged the father of the child could not be right. The one with power to gag is the judge, not the mother. But I contend that the judge could only gag the litigants.

    The notion of "gagging" (none / 0) (#153)
    by vigkat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:36:35 AM EST
    should never have come into play.  The judge could (and perhaps should) have exercised its power to limit contact or visitation between the child and the disparaging relative(s), and it appears that it was suggesting that the mother herself voluntarily place those limitations on the Palins by establishing some "boundaries."

    Parent
    Something that bothers me... (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by EL seattle on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:54:47 AM EST
    ... about this article is the way it implies that the judge was addressing Sarah Palin first, and the rest of her family second.  But the quotes don't seem to be weighted that way.

    Compare:

    An Anchorage judge three years ago warned Sarah Palin and members of her family to stop "disparaging" the reputation...

    and

    Court documents show that Judge Suddock was disturbed by the alleged attacks by Palin and her family members...

    with

    specifically "the disparagement of the father [Wooten] by the mother [Molly Hackett, Sarah Palin's sister] and her family members."

    and

    The judge added: "Relatives cannot disparage either. If occurs [sic] the parent needs to set boundaries for their relatives."

    The way this story is written, there's a lit of implication that Sarah Palin was personally responsible for disparagemant.  But the quotes seem to suggest that her sister, or possibly other family members were at least as responsible as S.P., and possibly more responsible.  (And how many family members are involved here, anyway?)

    Regarding Sarah Palin's personal involvement in this family melodrama, I think that this Newsweek story is a bit thick on innuendo, and thin on details. I'm sure the October report will have much more information.

    jeralyn, your point is well made. (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:10:44 AM EST
    just give BTD two aspirin, put a cold compress on his forehead, and wait until the fever breaks, and he comes back to his senses.

    the great thing about being a judge, is you get to say pretty much anything your little old heart desires, especially if it's germaine to the issue at hand.

    nowhere in his statement did he threaten anyone's 1st amendment rights, that assertion's idiotic on its face. he did say that denigratory comments and unsupported allegations, made by the ex-spouse and her family, were harmful to the children. if they continued, it would have an adverse affect on the mother's custody.

    he was well within his purview, it happens all the time in nasty divorce/custody cases.

    that aside, the real issue here is gov. palin's continued insistence on involving herself in the matter, and the concern that she abused her power as gov. to do so. currently the subject of an official investigation, we await the report.

    it most certainly does bear on her character and judgment, both issues of fitness for office.

    the great thing about being a judge , (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by sancho on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:06:27 AM EST
    is you get to say anything your heart desires? what is this? the anton scalia defense of judge idiocy? the alaska judge made a poor decision and in effect attacked the mother. this post suggests to me that not liking palin disables ordinarily fair-minded people. there are other things to attack her on. like, uh, the issues. if we dont want mccain-plain to get elected and appoint bad judges, then i dont see why we should be using a bad judge as our ally in attacking palin. quoting btd, insane.

    Parent
    No good can come of this argument... (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by jeffhas on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:35:11 AM EST
    Do you not see you are making Palin even stronger?

    There are so many ways to view this issue that could also be favorable to Palin (protective of her family, nephew, etc).

    No good can come of this.  Face it, McCain made a interesting VP choice that has stolen the media spotlight... giving her more spotlight isn't going to make this better... and all the tearing down that is literally FRENZIED here is making her stronger.

    The only way for her to lose her lustre is for HER to lose her lustre.  She needs time to gaffe, have poor interviews, say knee-jerk things that will all make her less than superhuman... If she performs extraordinarily well, maybe she deserves the spotlight... but if you pillage her, everyone circles the wagon around her and pays no attention to any gaffe - "of course she'll make a gaffe why look at the pressure these sharks have put her under"...

    HUGE mistake IMO... HUGE.  Stop it already.  

    It's a misconception (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Prabhata on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 04:28:58 AM EST
    that it was the media fault that Democratic candidates lost in 2000 and 2004.  I've come to see this election the fallacy of the belief.  Palin gets stronger the more she's demonized.  People are able to differentiate partisan attacks and real candidate weaknesses.

    Now that I don't have a dog in the fight I see stuff I couldn't see before.  Americans like strong candidates, even if they disagree about the most basic issues.  Now more than ever I see Hillary would have been polarizing, but she would have been a stronger candidate for the Democrats. Just saying.

    Parent

    demonized? (none / 0) (#71)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:54:59 AM EST
    oh puhleaaaaaaazeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Palin gets stronger the more she's demonized.

    stop with the nonsensical cant, will you?

    pointing out facts is now considered demonizing? since when? perhaps in your twisted reality, but not mine, or i expect, jeralyn's.

    demonizing? pffffffffffffffttttttttttt!

    Parent

    The focus (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:06:45 AM EST
    is on Palin because Obama is not inspiring anybody with his shifts to the right - or his choice of Biden.

    Nobody is writing stuff like - "wasn't Obama great on O'Reilly - or Olbermann - did you hear what he said when X asked him about this or that...?

    So - the focus is on Palin. She has fire.

    You may think she is the devil. Maybe she is. But she is coming across as someone who has some personal energy. Obama and Biden are increasingly comatose, timid and predictable.

    People who want them to be elected should be prodding them to wake up and say something about ending the war - NOW - about protecting women's rights to choose - about restoring civil liberties - about rebuilding the Union movement that Reagan destroyed.  You know, stuff that democrats are supposed to believe in.

    Parent

    hmm (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by connecticut yankee on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 05:25:28 AM EST
    My impression of the whole thing is that they do seem pretty vindinctive bunch.

    But I'll wait for the report to see what's what.

    It's been common knowledge (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:48:28 AM EST
    for few days at least that it was "voluntary". Still doesn't make it right. Tasers are weapons. He was supposed to be the adult in the room. The kid wanted to be tased to show Bristol he wasn't a mamma's boy?!

    It's not at all common knowledge (none / 0) (#176)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:00:25 PM EST
    It's Wooten's story.  And the boy said he didn't want to be seen as a "mama's boy"... Neither you nor I "know" what happened.

    Parent
    It is much more fun to try to turn the issue (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:54:39 AM EST
    of Palin's conduct into the issue of Wooten's.

    I am not impressed with either side of this  tale.

    I've deleted the comments (none / 0) (#156)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:06:54 AM EST
    going into detail about tasering. My post specifically said that's not the issue. If you want to bash the trooper, go to Big Tent's posts or another site. Don't hijack this thread with it.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 3) (#97)
    by standingup on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:57:08 AM EST
    This is playing into the Republicans hands.  The people already committed to voting for Obama think this is a big problem.  But the people that Obama is struggling with, blue collar voters and rural voters in these swing states, view this through a different lens.  Palin's strength is that these people are identifying with her.  If anything, trying to attack her for troopergate is only endearing her to them even more.  They see her as a fighter, one of their own, who will champion their cause.  

    Jeralyn, this is really not working (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by barryluda on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:02:51 AM EST
    Even if BTD is wrong frm a legal perspective (and every other perspective), this type of focus is not  helping Obama/Biden and, in fact, is helping McCain/Palin.  I've been trying with several independent friends, and they are hungry for positive information about Obama.

    Our focus must turn to how Obama/Biden will be good for the country.  As I said in a prior post, the most negative we should get is:

    "We can't afford a Republican for another 4 years."



    Even if (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:04:05 AM EST
    I do not think I am.

    Parent
    I don't think so either (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by barryluda on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:09:14 AM EST
    Just trying to appeal to J to stop hurting Obama

    Parent
    Something tells me that Senator Obama (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:46:51 AM EST
    would be seen (by his supporters) as protecting his family if he got involved along with the family, as the documents
    seem to say.

     This is way to political for me, what is going on with this, as stated here.  

    Good comment. (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:11:08 AM EST
    Although I still think the judge was pushing it with the "Stop trashing him or lose custody." threat.

    Most hard fought split ups are hard to sort out and rarely does anyone involved come out looking like a saint.

    Be educated (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Candace4Kansas on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:36:39 AM EST
    I for one have taking the time to read the police reports from the investigators they are all online, go look at them.  I have an issue with the investigator's "corrective action" assessed for Trooper Wooten.  There were testimony from two (unrelated) persons saying that Wooten would drink and drive while in his cop car.  He used a public weapon on his step son, and he lied to investigators.  As a concerned citizen Mayor Palin and her family had no influence on the issue.  As the GOV. she did.  Now the threats to kill her father and steroid use were only substantiated by Palin family members (although getting a 10 year old to explain that daddy poured something out of a purple bag with a crown on it into this water bottle seems a bit authentic)  so I won't press that issue.  But using a state issued weapon on your son and drinking in your patrol car seems grounds for dismissal to me.  If my ex-brother in law did those things;  You better bet your sweet behind I would be beating every bush in town until something fell out.

    Thread cleaned (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 12:42:05 PM EST
    of off-topic comments. If you'd like to discuss the matter with BTD, please do it on his thread.

    I think that there are two parts... (3.50 / 2) (#14)
    by EL seattle on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:57:07 AM EST
    ... to this saga.  The first part concerns Sarah Palin's sister and family (Including S.P.), and is really just a personal, domestic matter.  The second part concers Sarah Palin's behavior as an elected official, and is very much a valid issue in this election.

    This Newsweek story seems to me to be mostly about the first part of the saga, and Sarah Palin seems to be only peripheral to that part.  The Judge is quoted as saying:

    "It is the mother's [Hackett's] responsibility to set boundaries for her relatives and insure [sic] they respect them, and the disparagement by either parent, or their surrogates is emotional child abuse," Judge Suddock wrote.

    But the article does touch on the later part of the saga, wher Sarah Palin is a more significant player.  As governor (or even as mayor), Palin had daily opportunities to violate the public's trust.  The ongoing investigation will probably either provide ammunition for those who wish to portray her as someone who places her own agenda above the good of the people, or it will provide ammo for those who wish to portray her as someone who is willing to fight the long fight to protect those things "that matter most."  

    This is a gamble that the McCain team has knowingly taken in selecting Palin as his running mate.  

    It looks to me like this is possibly the first October Surprise that is actually being publicly scheduled.  But who will it be a surprise for?  

    Blasted with a taser? (3.00 / 4) (#54)
    by TomStewart on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:48:22 AM EST
    not to defend the stupidity of the officer involved, but...
    It wasn't used as a punishment, the kid (none too brightly) asked for it to be tested on him, and Wooten did just that (again, none too brightly), with it on the lowest test setting, according to reports I seen, about what you'd get touching an electric fence (btw, never pee on an electric fence, very bad).

    This is the kind of throw-everything-against-the- kind of divorce complaint that bitter and mean custody battles dredge up. Sounds like he wasn't a saint, but also sounds like the family, esp Palin, went after him hard, with Palin using her office to hound him as well, even going so far as releasing his private records and firing his boss when she didn't get her way. Usually this kind of behavior gets people fired, except in BushWorld, of course.

    Sounds like the judge was doing his job in looking after the welfare of the children in telling the wife's side of the family to cool it and stop trying to interfere in the custody battle. Sure that's going to be hard to enforce, but if the judge felt he needed to make the warning, it was probably justified.


    i did. you're still, (2.00 / 4) (#69)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:50:21 AM EST
    as it turns out, an idiot.

    Do a little reading before implying someone's an idiot.

    for the record, i implied nothing, i stated it as fact, which, by your idiotic response, is once again confirmed.

    Tony Knowles, the Democratic (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:44:24 AM EST
    Governor of Alaska, appointed John Suddock to the bench.  Later, Sarah Palin defeated Knowles in his bid to again be Governor (after he lost a Senate race against Murkowski's daughter, Lisa).  

    This is going to be a mess which might backfire (4.80 / 5) (#39)
    by SomewhatChunky on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 02:49:19 AM EST
    In a move endorsed by the McCain campaign Friday, John Coghill, the GOP chairman of the state House Rules Committee, wrote a letter seeking a meeting of Alaska's bipartisan Legislative Council in order to remove the Democratic state senator in charge of the so-called "troopergate" investigation.

    Coghill charged that the senator, Hollis French, had "politicized" the probe by making a number of public comments in recent days, including telling ABC News that Palin had a "credibility problem" and that the investigation into the firing of public safety commissioner Walter Monegan was "likely to be damaging to the administration" and could be an "October surprise." Wrote Coghill: "The investigation appears to be lacking in fairness, neutrality and due process."

    See link  href="http://www.newsweek.com/id/157439?tid=relatedcl">

    Not good to have a partisan in charge of the investigation as it will be seen as a political witch hunt lacking credibility even if there is something there.  

    Parent

    The Democratic assenbly held.... (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by NYShooter on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 03:14:08 AM EST
    a vote on replacing French.

    They turned it down.

    The witch hunt continues.

    See my post # 22 above.

    Parent

    After Ken Starr (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by BernieO on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 06:46:38 AM EST
    you would expect Demcrats to understand why this is a problem.

    Parent
    Because the Dems are on the other side (none / 0) (#126)
    by andrys on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:44:06 AM EST
    They have a chance to get this Republican Governor who is not well liked in the Legislature, Out.

    Parent
    ...but liked by the public.... (none / 0) (#162)
    by Candace4Kansas on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:51:40 AM EST
    I don't understand how she can have a over 80% approval rating and yet so many of the legislature is doggin her about it.....I guess her budget cuts and policy of transparency is causing some serious heartburn for the bunch.....

    Parent
    I just want to emphasize (none / 0) (#86)
    by BrianJ on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:18:04 AM EST
    That there is a matter of perspective here that has escaped Newsweek.

    To take an extreme example, let's say Wooten had convincing physical evidence that Palin had ordered someone killed.  In that case, Wooten's past might tell against him, but that evidence would demand a criminal investigation no matter what you thought of Wooten.

    In this case, however, we're not dealing with anything so dramatic-  Wooten was a party in a  divorce with a long list of allegations and workplace infractions against him as a state trooper, and divorces are almost by definition pretty acrimonious.  And again, Sarah Palin wasn't in a position to do anything to him.  There's just nothing to be gained by continuing to discuss this case.

    Stupid, but not malicious. (none / 0) (#92)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 07:48:13 AM EST
    Parents aren't infallible or infinitely wise.  Nor does one incident prove a pattern of behavior.

    I'd be more concerned about whether he kept his service weapon properly locked up.  

    Read the thread. (none / 0) (#104)
    by Alexi on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:05:32 AM EST
    I have to object to that, I've been reading this blog for weeks and you will not see a fairer discussion of Palin by Democrats anywhere else on the internet.  In fact, you won't see anything even close to this fair.  

    And yet it is still not fair (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Roz on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:20:52 AM EST
    nor wise. To say it's the best is a very sad commentary.

    Parent
    if you don't like what you read on liberal (none / 0) (#159)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 11:28:52 AM EST
    blogs, then go read conservative ones. And make your snide comments there please. Comments here are for a discussion of the topic in the post.

    Parent
    Hmm (none / 0) (#180)
    by Roz on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:00:12 PM EST
    Well, it looks like deleted my original comment, and I don't remember exactly what I wrote there, so I'm at a loss for why it may have been objectionable. Except that it was critical of this post. I don't think the above comment is in itself snide.

    I'll review the rules before I comment again.

    Parent

    Constantly writing about Palin IMO will backfire (none / 0) (#116)
    by Saul on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:18:27 AM EST
    J  I know you want to expose this woman on her credentials as not worth for VP.  We get that but if you over do it and keep coming down on her like gangbusters just might bring out more sympathy for her.  The only reason she is popular right now is because of the constant barrages thrown at her from the blogs and the media.  This is how she got to be so popular.  Why do we want to make her more popular?  Although your intentions are to let the world know how unfit she is for VP and possible CIC position you just might be accomplishing the opposite.  We do not want to make her a major personality.

    Although the issues are what a voters should be concerned with and use the issues on their decision to vote the majority of voters do not use the issues.   Most voters vote on personalities not issues.  Governor Schwarzenegger is a good example of being chosen in that special election because of his movie star status.    Most people on this blog or those who are aware of the importance of the issues  are political junkies which is not representative of main stream America.  I talk to people everyday who have no concept of basic politics terms. It just depends how sophisticated the people are.   Very few can define what the major issues are in this election but they do know how a particular candidates strikes them just by how they perceive his or her personality.

    I confess to not having read here (none / 0) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:34:36 AM EST
    lately because of my son's surgery recovery.  Wow, it has been a tough one.  Perhaps it is because I'm in mother overdrive, but for me this is a serious issue and if someone doesn't come down on Palin like gangbusters on this particular issue decency will not be served. This type of behavior within families is so damaging to the children it isn't even funny.

    Parent
    She shouldn't have protected her sister? (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by JAB on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:55:32 AM EST
    and nieces and nephews by complaining that Wooten is a bad guy and shouldn't be have custody of them?  She's bad for complaining that Wooten threatened to kill his father-in-law (her father)?

    I'm really sorry, I don't understand your point.

    Parent

    Complaining that Wooten was a "bad" guy? (none / 0) (#141)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 09:24:19 AM EST
    Every person living and breathing could be argued to be a "bad" person.  In fact it is a psychological fact that we all have a dark side.  Complaining about him making threats against her father's life.....valid.

    Parent
    I hope (none / 0) (#132)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:54:19 AM EST
    that your son is doing well.  Always nice to see you posting.

    Parent
    Someone who would damage her own (none / 0) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 08:29:19 AM EST
    neices and nephews emotionally and psychologically due to a failed marriage certainly isn't someone who I would want running my country.  This story also saddens me due to my own family life experiences, oddly enough the folks that I've experienced doing the same sort of thing are also Republican affiliated and INSIST on church every Sunday.  If only adults were involved in the situation I could reflect on immaturity of it all.......not presidential material.  Add children though to the situation and I discover someone who isn't even lower public official material.

    We don't know all the facts in this case (none / 0) (#172)
    by tree on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 01:15:37 PM EST
    but yet we make judgments.

    This is Palin's description of the tasering incident in a complaint to the head of the ALaska State Troopers:


    Wooten's total disregard for the safety of others was blatantly apparent when he shot his 11-year old stepson, Payton with his Taser gun. My 14-year-old daughter, (Bristol Palin) was terrified as she witnessed this incidence, and pleaded with Wooten not to follow through on his intended action of "letting Payton feel what a Taser can do". Wooten "offered" to shoot Bristol with the Taser after Payon was knocked over by the shock and Bristol continued to protest Wooten's action, and he followed up by offering to spray them both with pepper spray so they could "feel that, too". Wooten's wife aggressively protested during the Taser gun incident, she cried, he calls her and Payton "f**king p#ssys"  for protesting.

    Is her description more accurate than Wooten's? I don't know. But given her description of the incident, if it frightened her own daughter and if  Wooten did indeed threaten her daughter that alone is enough to make all the rest of her actions totally understandable and certainly in the best interests of  both her family and the community.


    Parent

    More complicated (none / 0) (#150)
    by NealB on Wed Sep 10, 2008 at 10:17:31 AM EST
    We don't know enough about it to judge. Some kids benefit from safe demonstrations of the use of weapons. If the kid was overly curious or excited about his dad's new taser, perhaps the father thought it wiser to satisfy his curiosity with a controlled demonstration than risk that the kid would engage in dangerous jack-ass behavior often glorified on television and really get himself hurt. Some fathers insist that their kids play football, even at age eleven, where the the physical pain is more severe and the chance for serious injury is greater; just one of many, many examples of the "abuse" that is tolerated because they're culturally acceptable. What's worse? In this case we certainly don't know enough to judge the father. Sarah Palin's interference is another matter.

    Sarah Palin should have messed out.