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How Religion Informs Sarah Palin's Political Beliefs

Sarah Palin on science:

Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct -- the teacher said.

On how to teach science:

During an October 2006 debate in the Alaska governor's race, Palin urged that evolution and creationist ideas be taught together in state schools. "Don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides," she said.

On war: [more...]

In one of her more controversial appearances in the Wasilla church, Palin told a group of ministry students in June to pray that sending troops to Iraq was part of "God's plan." In a speech this month at a deployment ceremony for her Iraq-bound soldier son, Palin called the conflict a "righteous cause."

The linked article suggests that Palin's political instincts kept her from translating some of her more controversial fundamentalist beliefs into policy. That is hardly reassuring given the greater power she would wield as vice president, and potentially as president.

Douglas Wead misses the point when he asks: "Are we saying [evangelical Christians] can't participate in public life?" No. We're asking how, if at all, those beliefs shape the candidate's view of appropriate public policy.

"It's legitimate to ask questions about candidates who come from a fundamentalist environment with a black-and-white worldview, and want to know how it would affect their approach on all kinds of issues," said Paul S. Boyer, a retired University of Wisconsin history professor who has written about the role of religious prophecy on public policy.

Palin can hold whatever religious beliefs make sense to her, but when those beliefs inform her view of public policy, it's important to understand them. We've seen where a president with a "black and white worldview" takes the country. Palin's belief that creationism should be taught in science classes, and that God has a plan for the United States to fight righteous wars against oil rich countries, demonstrates that Palin (like George Bush) is out of touch with a reasonable, mainstream approach to governance.

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    I believe. . . (4.00 / 4) (#7)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:53:24 PM EST
    that at least the issue of her "urging the teaching of creationism" has been debunked.  What I've read is that she has been pretty clear in not advocating for the public school curriculum to include creationism.  The statement quoted was in the context of a student bringing the issue up in class -- and is a reasonable statement on that matter even coming from an atheist.

    And on the war (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Cream City on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:06:54 PM EST
    this is what she said, for others to interpret as they will:

    She also told the group that her eldest child, Track, would soon be deployed by the Army to Iraq, and that they should pray "that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God, that's what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan."

    I have seen quotes from Lincoln and FDR saying something similar in the Civil War and WWII, respectively.  (It would be interesting to see if Wilson did about WWI, since he was a Southern minister's son.)  Btw, personally, I do not subscribe to such a belief system.  But if my son was heading to Iraq, I might change my mind and find hope whereever I could.

    Parent

    Navy hymn: (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:18:09 PM EST
    This quote is typical Christian/Evangelical talk (none / 0) (#18)
    by mexboy on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:26:38 AM EST
    Born again Christians and/or Evangelicals are forever looking for God's plan in everything, so this quote does not surprise me.

    I am a former evangelical so I know the talk. What I am more interested in is if she is trying to codify into law her religious beliefs.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like any candidates talking about their religion or their faith, but in fairness, they all do it, so we should question everyone equally on these matters. Once religion gets into our laws-we're sc**d, no matter what party puts them there.

    Religion/faith, whatever word one wants to use should be kicked out of government. It belongs in places of worship, not in our laws.

    Parent

    "They all do it" (none / 0) (#31)
    by Melchizedek on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:22:05 AM EST
    This is flippant nonsense. Not to discriminate between kinds of religious talk lacks pragmatism and political commitment. To think that Al Gore's vision of stewardship for God's creation leads to the exact same "We're screwed" consequences as Bush's creationism when it comes to climate research or science education is unfathomable. Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, a quote from which Palin butchered and applied wrongly, was about humility, not "Big-Daddy-In-the-Sky be behind us" triumphalism. And it sure as hell wasn't about having God telling him that it was right to start a war (a la Bush and Iraq). Read the speech. Lincoln is explicitly saying he doesn't know what God wants, that he may well be wrong (and that anyone who claims God endorses his position is full of it). This is never what Palin and Bush want to admit.

    Parent
    If you read or listen to (none / 0) (#35)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:34:02 AM EST
    Palin's complete comments, she says the same thing--  urges her listeners at the church group to pray that this (ie, Iraq) is God's plan.

    Parent
    Flippant nonsense? (none / 0) (#67)
    by mexboy on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 01:52:36 PM EST
    You are being incredibly selective in your speech. Palin was saying the exact same thing with different words, that she prays this is God's will...in other wores, SHE DOESN'T KNOW!.

     Every religion has their own particular way of using language. I find it disingenuous to attack her by splitting hairs, and I dislike defending a woman whose positions I dislike even more.
    Explain Obama's new faith tour with  Doug Kmiec.here

    If you're going to go after someone for using their faith then you open the door for others to go after your candidate for using his faith.

    Please do tell me how you feel about Obama using Doug Kmeic as a surrogate on his faith tour.

    Parent

    This is the equivalent (none / 0) (#32)
    by BernieO on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:32:22 AM EST
    of saying "Let us pray that the war is the right thing to do." True believers think the right choice is the same thing as God's will, so they pray always that they are doing what God wants. The wording actually expresses humility, not certainty.

    There are serious reasons to worry if Palin is qualified, but I am tired of people demonizing candidates. We need to grow up and realize that a candidate can be the greatest person, but still not be qualified for office. Aside from the principle involved, these kinds of exaggerations just make undecideds turn a deaf ear when real problems are pointed out.

    Parent

    How strange that we take off (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:07:17 AM EST
    for foreign lands to go to war, fight, kill and pray that it is God's will doing so while people in foreign lands blow us up believing that it is God's will to do so.  God is going to be so pissed at all of us when he gets his hands on us.  I don't think he gave any of us permission to do any of this.

    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#68)
    by mexboy on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 01:54:30 PM EST
    Thank you Military Mom, You cracked me up!

    Parent
    That's actually a liberal position on teaching (none / 0) (#16)
    by roy on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 01:50:01 AM EST
    Larry, right - what you read is backed up by (none / 0) (#19)
    by andrys on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:52:42 AM EST
    Factcheck.org

      They expand on the point in the bottom section.

    Parent

    sorry, but i have to disagree (none / 0) (#23)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:12:34 AM EST
    with factcheck on the issue of teaching creationism. perhaps she didn't actually push it as a part of the official curriculum, but that she would even suggest that evolution and creationism are equal enough scientific theories, worthy of discussion and debate, clearly indicates her thought process.

    Parent
    how would you ever (none / 0) (#34)
    by ding7777 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:33:42 AM EST
    disuade those who believe in "dinosaurs roaming the earth 4 thousand years ago" if you are unwilling to debate the scienticfic theory in a public school setting?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#56)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:54:08 AM EST
    Factcheck is wrong.  

    She specifically said, "teach" in the 2006 debate. The others said no.

    Her position changed to "discuss" or "answer questions" later but I believe she had practical reasons for that.

    Parent

    hm (none / 0) (#52)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:47:00 AM EST
    No, its not debunked at all.

    They asked the three debate participants what they thought about teaching ID or creationism.

    Two said no. Palin said yes and she said teach, not field questions.

    http://community.adn.com/adn/node/102978

    Only after the debate, in an interview, did her position change from "teach" to "discuss" or "answer questions".   I think its because she didnt have the power to teach creationism anyway.  The SC has already ruled.  

    She is very careful with the issue of her faith so as not to spook people.  SHe won't even directly answer questions about her creationist beliefs.

    Parent

    What power does a VP wield (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:36:14 PM EST
    to impose the VP's religious beliefs on the country?

    If you don't do what she says. . . (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:45:08 PM EST
    she can shoot you in the face.

    Parent
    Movin' right along: (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:51:32 PM EST
    Onward, Christian soldiers.  

    I'm just not going to lose any sleep over Gov. Palin.  

    Parent

    As long as she remains. . . (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:54:05 PM EST
    Governor Palin, you wont have to.

    Parent
    There are so many personing the barricades (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:55:13 PM EST
    she hasn't a prayer of becoming VP, correct?  Aren't you the 10-point spread guy?

    Parent
    Yes, but. . . (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by LarryInNYC on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:02:48 PM EST
    no one in their right mind would listen to my prognostications about electoral politics.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#17)
    by cal1942 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 02:23:09 AM EST
    she can shoot you in the face

    And get off without consequences.

    Parent

    Funny!! (none / 0) (#33)
    by BernieO on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:33:30 AM EST
    And she is  a crack shot. Yikes!

    Parent
    her religious beliefs directly on us; rather, it is that those religious beliefs would determine what positions she would take and impel her in certain directions, aside from what is objectively in the best interests of this country.  As for the power of the VP, think Dick Cheney.  Depends on the VP and the dynamic with the President.

    Parent
    I think at this point it's almost more (none / 0) (#4)
    by of1000Kings on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:46:26 PM EST
    about keeping Palin out of office in 2012...

    she is the Extremist's golden girl for 2012, and has been on the list of extremists like Hagee and Falwell to be the president in '12 for quite some time now...

    plus, as the VP she would be one 72 y/o heartbeat away fro being the worst president in the history of the US, but would make for a great movie about a PTA mom/small-town mayor commanding the greatest armed forces in the world...

    Parent

    I think you're correct on that (none / 0) (#12)
    by Cream City on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:13:05 PM EST
    position in the first paragraph, a far better way to put it than the one in the second paragraph.  Dems would do better to stop talking about McCain's heart stopping -- especially those who claimed that Clinton, when talking about RFK, was calling for Obama's assassination.  Really, the low level of such discourse does not do well for Dems.

    As for your last line, it cracked me up -- reminding me of marvelous movies -- the classic The Mouse That Roared and Canadian Bacon, too.  

    Parent

    That is not a low level (none / 0) (#21)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:44:03 AM EST
    of discourse to talk about the age of this man, and the fact that there is a chance this country could elect someone that statistically speaking is very close to deaths door, or even closer to losing some of his mental abilities.   This makes his VP choice and huge deal.


    Parent
    You're not talking like a politician (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 12:24:59 PM EST
    and this is a political discussion.

    In medical school, talk like a doctor -- say, about the prognosis for an AA man near 50 who is a smoker, whose father died in his 40s, and whose mother died in her mid-50s?  See, I don't think that would be a politically wise discussion.  But you do, so go to it here.

    Parent

    Statistically (none / 0) (#69)
    by samtaylor2 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:05:08 PM EST
    He is still okay.  The father's side seems to be healthy, the mother side could be questionable.  She was young when she was diagnosed and died of ovarian cancer and she probably developed it earlier then 50 as it was metastatic when it was found.    However, there aren't any other immediate family members with Ovarian or breast cancer so it is very unlikely Obama is a BRCA1 or 2 (most men are 2) carrier.  And even then his chance of developing male breast cancer would only be 5% and the connection of BRCA2 to prostate, pancreatic and melanomma is not strong.  

    If he continues to smoking, by the time he finishes his second term he can start getting worried.  And at that point, it doesn't matter to us.

    However the statistics that show McCain as a dangerous bet either via death (age or melanoma) or developing alzheimers are still very high unfortunately.

    Parent

    What next - talking about (none / 0) (#22)
    by Fabian on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:44:21 AM EST
    Pelosi's religious convictions?

    I mean, really, women die in childbirth all the time and Gov. Palin could become pregnant at any time!  

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#53)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:48:20 AM EST
    VPs dont have much, but presidents do.  McCain himself believes in evolution but if Palin became president and had a friendlier, more conservative court, she would have many levers to get creationism into school.

    Parent
    the fact that she believes that (none / 0) (#5)
    by of1000Kings on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 10:50:27 PM EST
    the Iraq war is a righteous cause is pretty scary when one considers how she would handle Iran if she were one day given the power to make the decisions...

    one thing I hope that Obama does is give up the unconstitutional executive powers to go to war without Congress if he does make it to office...at least that way Palin wouldn't be able to unilaterally and preemptively go to war with Iran on the advising of her evangelical extremist belief system if she were to, god forbid, become POTUS one day...

    Correct me if I'm wrong... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:13:45 AM EST
    one thing I hope that Obama does is give up the unconstitutional executive powers...

    In February, the intrepidly incompetent and fulsomely evil Mr. McCain specifically denied that he would ever resort to using signing statements.  

    At the same time Mr. Obama defended the use of signing statements to preserve presidential "prerogatives."  

    Good luck with your hopes.

    Parent

    The chapter and verses Sarah Palin refer to: (none / 0) (#13)
    by kelsweet on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:16:46 PM EST
    James 4:13   Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will[fn7] go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit";
    James 4:14   whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away.
    James 4:15   Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that."
    James 4:16   But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

    She was not suggesting we are fighting any righteous war. Exactly the opposite actually.

    sorry, I didn't read the article (none / 0) (#15)
    by of1000Kings on Sun Sep 28, 2008 at 11:20:59 PM EST
    just to the quotes around righteous cause to mean that those were the words that came out of Palin's mouth...

    if those weren't the words used, then I can see your point...

    I guess it still could be righteous, depending on the definition used...

    Parent

    Gibson did partial quotes, probably (none / 0) (#20)
    by andrys on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:01:22 AM EST
    without realizing it.  I think he was given the partial quotes from staff and didn't know they'd chopped off the first half of the sentence.

    For what was said (that he was referring to), see
    this Washington Post article.

    There's even more detail on what was actually said.

    Parent

    That is a pretty ugly bit of misquoting (none / 0) (#37)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:37:39 AM EST
    Little wonder the the bitter, the clingers, the rubes and the unwashed masses are disgusted by the hypocrisy of the self-annointed elite.  

    Was it Princeton that taught Gibson sandbagging?

    Parent

    Maybe you should (none / 0) (#36)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:36:07 AM EST
    before you have a strong opinion on the subject?

    Just a suggestion.

    Parent

    frankly, i am at a loss (none / 0) (#24)
    by cpinva on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:17:08 AM EST
    to explain how gov. palin even got to be gov. of alaska. it must be that warm, fuzzy personality, because as near as i can figure, it sure isn't smarts.

    of course, in a state with only 650k people, my suspicion is you wouldn't have to get a huge # of votes to win.

    oh, and if you want to talk about annoying voices............................. lol

    sorry, low-hanging fruit.

    If Palin became president . . . (none / 0) (#25)
    by Doc Rock on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:30:13 AM EST
    . . . she would be widely regarded around the world as the US' Ahmadinejad!

    My question (none / 0) (#26)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:49:06 AM EST
    to those that believe the earth was created 6000 years ago--do they not believe the ancient Greeks and Romans (of whom there is much evidence) didn't exist either? They go back as far as 10000 BC.  Do they think that they didn't exist?  I was raised born-again and was disillusioned with it about the time I was 13 and was asking too many questions to my church elders.

    Actually the early Greek and Roman empires (none / 0) (#38)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:38:36 AM EST
    fit historically into the 6000 year timeline. Ancient Greeks began their civilization 1200-1000 BC, and  Rome was built around 750 BC. Both civilizations appear in the Bible. But to embrace a religion totally often requires that one suspend his connection to reality. Virgin births, people rising from the dead, the Red Sea parting, and flaming bushes that can talk all require one to trust that the laws of physics do not always apply. Disregarding radioactive dating and fossil evidence that the Earth is billions of years old instead of thousands is easy compared to some of the other things one is expected to accept on faith.

    Parent
    Finally.. (none / 0) (#45)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:10:54 AM EST
    ... I understand the real reason Dubya bombed the bejeezus out of Iraq.  It was to wipe out any remaining evidence of Sumer's 5000 B.C. existence.


    Parent
    It makes as much sense (none / 0) (#47)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:29:01 AM EST
    as any other reason we've been given.

    Parent
    LOL. (none / 0) (#50)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:34:48 AM EST
    I got my years confused.  Sorry bout that. You are correct but there is this:

    c. 10,000 BC- First cave drawings are made, with War scenes and Religious scenes, beginnings of what become story telling, and morphed into acting.


    Parent
    Incorrect. There is (none / 0) (#48)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:32:43 AM EST
    evidence that the Ancient Etruscans were around as far back as 10000 BC--before the founding of Ancient Rome.  

    Parent
    fossil record (none / 0) (#49)
    by txpublicdefender on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:34:15 AM EST
    Yeah, the fossil record was "created" by Satan to test the faith.

    Parent
    Like when Colbert (none / 0) (#51)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:38:44 AM EST
    said that was "when Jesus buried the dinosaur bones." LOL

    Parent
    Sarah Palin (none / 0) (#28)
    by kilda on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:53:37 AM EST
    Does Gov. Palin also think that the schools should teach alternative theories to Gravity?  Makes about as much sense as teaching Creationism as opposed to Evolution

    Actually good schools do teach (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:21:20 AM EST
    alternate theories to gravity. Before Isaac Newton quantified gravity, most people still believed Aristotle's view of things having a natural place. By showing how scientists move from belief without proof to sound scientific theory based on testable hypotheses using non-controversial topics like gravity, teachers can open the door to conversations about the difference between faith and science in more controversial areas. But you can't teach those things if you can't talk about them.

    Parent
    And on a meta level (none / 0) (#40)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:42:05 AM EST
    Education itself abounds in wacko theories of Pedagogy.

    Parent
    Tell me about it. (none / 0) (#42)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:54:41 AM EST
    I teach education classes.

    Parent
    There are many (none / 0) (#41)
    by BernieO on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:47:18 AM EST
    advocates of separation of church and state who believe that creationism can be taught in school, but not as science. It can be in a comparative religions class or a current events course. I also agree with you that it could be included in a science class as a comparison with other theories. But what needs to be done is to teach kids about other cultures creation myths, too, not just the story from Genesis.

    Parent
    The problem with moving creationism (none / 0) (#43)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:06:33 AM EST
    or intelligent design to a humanities class instead of dealing with it in a science class is that proponents of ID want it to replace evolution in science. Other groups are not pushing for their versions of creation to become science. I whole-heartedly support a comparative study of religions in a public school, but I want ID up front in a science class where a science teacher can show the difference between accepting something based on faith and accepting a sound scientific theory. I would also like the English teachers to add the scientific definition of "theory" to the vocabulary list when they teach the meaning of theory.

    Parent
    I do not understand (none / 0) (#46)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:17:02 AM EST
    how any teaching of ID or Creationism can survive past the first kid asking what seems the obvious question, "and who created the creator?"

    and who created the creators creator?

    ad infinitum

    Parent

    The answer that a student who (none / 0) (#55)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:52:26 AM EST
    believes in ID might give to that question is that god has always been there. In my first year of teaching, I listened to my mentor teacher, and when I got to evolution, I taught it as an accepted scientific theory. She told me not to allow questions about creationism. To refer the kids to their parents or clergy. I listened and did just that. After teaching multiple theories about what caused the dinosaurs to become extinct, I made the mistake of wording the question on a test, "Why do you think the dinosaurs became extinct?" (I was a brandy-new teacher in oh so many ways.) One of my students wrote an answer that involved God's being unhappy with his dinosaur creation because they had become evil so Noah didn't let them on the ark. Being a snarky person, I wrote, "Ah the unicorn theory. They missed the boat." in the margins of the student's test. A week later I was in the superintendent's office facing her parents. The super asked me to apologize for being flip. He was right, and I did, but then he told the parents that it was people like them who made my job harder than it ever needed to be. From then on, with his blessing, I have faced down ID in the science class. I don't know how many lifelong converts I made, but no one ever gave me the "unicorn theory" answer again. (And I learned to formulate questions better, too.)

    Parent
    ha (none / 0) (#54)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 09:49:33 AM EST
    Yeah, because that's how it would be used in Wasilla, or South Carolina schools.

    Sure thing.

    Parent

    Alaska's science curriculum (none / 0) (#58)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 10:18:09 AM EST
    guide states:

    C1) Students develop an understanding of changes in life forms over time, including genetics, heredity, and the process of natural selection.

    skip

    D4) Students develop an understanding of the theories regarding the origin and evolution of the universe

    A Wasilla High School teacher would be expected to teach this even if he or she believes in Intelligent Design.

    Parent

    hm (none / 0) (#59)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 10:20:10 AM EST
    I'm sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about.

    My point was just that if we introduce the topic of Creationism (even as a target to batter), it will be abused and taught as fact by fundamentalist teachers across the country.

    Parent

    Teachers are required to (none / 0) (#60)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 10:40:47 AM EST
    teach evolution. Few places forbid a teacher from discussing religious theories of the origin and history of the earth. The problem is not with the introduction of ID to the curriculum. It's with forbidding the teaching of evolution. Nothing Palin or the Alaska Board of Education have done suggests that they want to remove evolution from the curriculum. In a state by state survey, Kansas is a more likely place for this to happen. Alaska doesn't even make the list.

    Parent
    hm (none / 0) (#61)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 10:44:12 AM EST
    Actually introducing ID or Creation Science is a problem and both are currently ruled as beng religious instruction.  Either by the SC or by the Dover decision.

    Palin, and the AK republicans, seemed to want to teach both but they dont have that power.  The courts would need to ok it.

    Teaching both is a creationist position.

    Parent

    It's not religious instruction (none / 0) (#62)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:07:35 AM EST
    to talk about religion in school. We talk about religion in history class. You can't teach history if you don't. To introduce ID into a science class for the purpose if teaching why it isn't science is not religious instruction. It's science instruction. When ID replaces evolution in the classroom, then it's religious instruction. We should be careful that evolution is part of every state curriculum, but don't tie the hands of science teachers by banning a discussion of ID. For the record, I'm an atheist so I have no religion that I'm trying to push. If a school community is so totally steeped in belief in creationism that they are hiring science teachers who would introduce it as science, then requiring that they teach evolution as well is the best you're going to get. If the kids come to school singing "Behometh was a Dinosaur", you're already four battles behind in the wat.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#63)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:19:37 AM EST
    Most of the court decisions dealing with this issue have mentioned the religious nature of creationism and ID.  The seperation of church and state is usually involved in the decision.   It's also usually mentioned that it's not science.

    In the Dover decision the many religious statements by the school board where an issue in the case.

    There is no reason to construct theoretical positions for creationists, theyve been quite clear about what they want. Teaching both is almost always the goal.  

    This has nothing to do with teaching about the history of religions so why bother raising it?

    Parent

    The point of raising teaching about (none / 0) (#64)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:42:01 AM EST
    religion in history is that we do not consider that "religious instruction". However, if the history teacher were to expound on why the crusaders were on a "true mission for God", that would cross the line.  But we don't forbid all history teachers from teaching about the crusades because a few teachers might inject their own personal religion into the class. We hunt those teachers down and fire them. Teaching about intelligent design in science class isn't religious instruction either if we're demonstrating why it isn't science. I also taught my students about astrology, too, which has it's roots in ancient science, but I don't tell them that should believe it. I show them why they shouldn't. Acknowledging that some people believe in things that science can prove are wrong is not religious instruction. In fact, it's anything but.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#65)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 12:11:26 PM EST
    Allowing discussion of the subject in your class might result in one conclusion, teaching it in a rural south carolina school might result in another conclusion.

    Your individual behavior can't be the metric.

    They could have a class on silly beliefs and how to debunk them but better if its kept away from science class.

    Parent

    She never did say that (none / 0) (#39)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:41:03 AM EST
    The question was about some court case somewhere that ended up forbidding any discussion of creationism in science class, even when a student in the class asked a question about it.  Palin said, pretty reasonably, I think, that if a kid raises the question, of course the teacher should allow a little discussion of it.

    This has been distorted and blown up into something she never said and has never supported.

    Her father was a science teacher.  She appears to be one of those people who are able to hold both religious and scientific beliefs at the same time.  I couldn't, but there are a fair number of scientists of various times who are evangelical Christians and are able to manage it, including the guy who was the head of the Human Genome Project.

    Parent

    hm (none / 0) (#57)
    by connecticut yankee on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 10:10:13 AM EST
    I dispute your account. It's easy enough to find her actual words.


    "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. "Healthy debate is so important and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject -- creationism and evolution. It's been a healthy foundation for me. But don't be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides."

    Classic creationist terms. "I am a proponent of teaching both."  I think it's clear what her position was.  I also think she changed it to be more palatable to the voters.

    But teaching "Intelligent Design or Creation Science" is in the platform of the Alaska Republican party. Including a line that says whenever evolution is mentioned schools should be required to say, "its just a theory".

    Parent